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The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
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moonlight_sonata Offline
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Post: #101
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
I am observing a weird phenomenon and may be it is just me.

It took 215 day game approaches to get a lay for me (since I started counting) and I had previous day-game lays but those were accidental. But even the 1 I got is also accidental. 100 things could have gone wrong and did go wrong so having that lay is pure chance and luck - she just broke up with her BF, I met her 2 months before in a supermarket and kept in touch as a beta chump. She didn't even respond to some of my messages but I sent cool pics of places I visit every 1 or 2 weeks. Just as a ping. But it worked out at the end. We had a fantastic 2 all-nighters.

But here is the bad side - even when you get the lay it can be with an unworthy girl - just sex for the sake of it. The girl that I made it with had too many red flags. There is no guarantee you'll find any deep connection. Even when you go through 1000 approaches. The good thing is you get super good at approaching, getting numbers, going out on dates. I had many of those. But having meaningless sex starts to feel weird. Not to mention I don't use any protection like an idiot.
05-03-2019 10:14 AM
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Delta Offline
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Post: #102
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(05-03-2019 10:14 AM)moonlight_sonata Wrote:  I am observing a weird phenomenon and may be it is just me.

It took 215 day game approaches to get a lay for me (since I started counting) and I had previous day-game lays but those were accidental. But even the 1 I got is also accidental. 100 things could have gone wrong and did go wrong so having that lay is pure chance and luck - she just broke up with her BF, I met her 2 months before in a supermarket and kept in touch as a beta chump. She didn't even respond to some of my messages but I sent cool pics of places I visit every 1 or 2 weeks. Just as a ping. But it worked out at the end. We had a fantastic 2 all-nighters.

But here is the bad side - even when you get the lay it can be with an unworthy girl - just sex for the sake of it. The girl that I made it with had too many red flags. There is no guarantee you'll find any deep connection. Even when you go through 1000 approaches. The good thing is you get super good at approaching, getting numbers, going out on dates. I had many of those. But having meaningless sex starts to feel weird. Not to mention I don't use any protection like an idiot.

That is not a "weird phenomenon," that's you being a rational human and realizing that you worked hundreds of hours just to earn the privilege of putting your dick inside a girl you weren't even that fond of. Hundreds of hours is not an exaggeration, if anything it might be an understatement. In addition to the time spent on the 215 approaches themselves, you also spent time waiting/searching for targets, running text game on those who gave you a number, going on [I imagine] tons of failed dates, reading game literature, analyzing what went wrong on your failed approaches and dates, getting in shape, improving your style, and if you're like me, attending social functions when you didn't feel like as "practice" carrying on conversations with strangers. With this same amount of time and effort, you could have gotten a new business off the ground from scratch, or learned to code and forged a lucrative career path. But instead, your reward was getting to fuck ONE mediocre girl a couple of times. Anyone see the problem?

My OP was kind of long-winded and meandering. The succinct way of putting it is: In the current dating market, game has such a hilariously low return on time invested that it can't be seen as worthwhile to any rational person. The usual advice of "put in the work" doesn't apply because the whole problem is the absurd amount of work needed to get anything out of it. You wouldn't tell someone slaving away for $0.50/hr in a Bangladeshi sweatshop to just work more hours and you'll become rich. Where does one go from there when even crazy amounts of time and effort aren't yielding satisfying results?
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2019 10:56 PM by Delta.)
05-03-2019 10:54 PM
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RDF Offline
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Post: #103
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(05-03-2019 10:54 PM)Delta Wrote:  With this same amount of time and effort, you could have gotten a new business off the ground from scratch, or learned to code and forged a lucrative career path. But instead, your reward was getting to fuck ONE mediocre girl a couple of times. Anyone see the problem?

Yes. The problem is likely poor game, poor target selection, or both. It should not take "hundreds of hours" to fuck one woman. If it does, the problem is you.

It's easy to talk about how fucked up the dating market is, because that serves as an excuse to justify lack of results. When I'm on a dry streak, I don't look to blame women for not sleeping with me. I look inwards to understand what I am doing wrong and work to fix it.

When I go out to bars or go out for a walk, I see plenty of good looking women, plenty of couples, plenty of guys hooking up. The dating market looks fine. It isn't perfect, of course, but it never has been. Plenty of men out there still have a completely normal sex life and are reasonably happy with the women. Things aren't as bad as they seem on the internet.
05-04-2019 10:56 AM
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moonlight_sonata Offline
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Post: #104
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(05-04-2019 10:56 AM)RDF Wrote:  Things aren't as bad as they seem on the internet.

Right, I didn't want my post to sound negative. I just wanted to point out the pure chance involved in game. I don't mind putting the work. I find it an invaluable experience. I don't care that it's hard. I don't care that it takes many hours. Because there is no alternative.

On the other hand I'm in the software business and my career is pretty good. I can travel and work from anywhere. Money is not a problem. So for me is just a matter of time to travel to places where I can get what I need. The place I'm staying in the U.S. is pretty bad from an approaching perspective, but I still do it. It helps me optimize and improve my tactics to when I go to a place that is target rich. We can always blame lack of success to game problems. But what is "game"? You can't generalize something so personal and subjective. There are some general rules and thousands of personal, subjective nuances that a man needs to learn through practice. General rules are not helping much because they are too general. Like general medicine - I hate how all humans are treated the same. Personalized medicine is likely to be the future because we're all different - 100mg of Vitamin C can act one way on one person and differently on another. There are many complex factors at play. Same with game.

Life is hard. Complaining doesn't help. Just go out there and do the work you need to do to get where you need to get. Complaining is just an excuse. I'm working on my own business and I understand how difficult it is to get anywhere even in the modern world with all the technology help and all the dissemination of knowledge of successful entrepreneurs. Why there are so many people struggling to make a good living when we have all the apparent knowledge in the world how to do it right? There are thousands of books on how to become a millionaire. But only a few make it. Game has been mostly a trial and error craft since the dawn of time. We have substantial genetic blue-print on how to do it in our DNA with culture giving it the final shape. We never even discuss how men from different cultures are able to implement Western game. The fact a man is from a different culture makes applying general game advice difficult because that advice doesn't consider those ingrained cultural nuances.

Why would finding the right girl be any different than trying to become a millionaire - intense competition, luck, knowledge, risk taking - it takes the same amount of skills. So I am not complaining about my 215 approaches to get 1 girl to sleep with me. I am looking forward to my next 215 approaches and hopefully I'll be at the right time in the right place and find my unicorn. You have to be a little crazy to make it in the business world. I believe the same goes with finding a girl that can be the mother of your children. Go out there, risk as much as you can, overcome the obstacles, be relentless and don't give up and at the end reap the rewards you deserve. As Machiavelli said - destiny favors the bold.
(This post was last modified: 05-05-2019 10:21 AM by moonlight_sonata.)
05-05-2019 10:18 AM
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Teo72 Offline
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Post: #105
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(03-24-2019 02:24 PM)Delta Wrote:  Even when a girl is interested enough to give me the time of day, it's still clear that she couldn't care less. I cannot reliably make something wonderful happen with a girl when they almost never have any motivation or urgency to meet me in the middle.

Just for the record, when people write that they go out and have sex with a new girl every night with no or limited effort I try to not believe them
So please do not buy the hype that there is a way to have sex so easily
At least, I do not know of any
05-05-2019 10:45 AM
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midnight special Offline
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Post: #106
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(05-05-2019 10:45 AM)Teo72 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 02:24 PM)Delta Wrote:  Even when a girl is interested enough to give me the time of day, it's still clear that she couldn't care less. I cannot reliably make something wonderful happen with a girl when they almost never have any motivation or urgency to meet me in the middle.

Just for the record, when people write that they go out and have sex with a new girl every night with no or limited effort I try to not believe them
So please do not buy the hype that there is a way to have sex so easily
At least, I do not know of any

Live somewhere good, be reasonably good looking, and have confidence. The rest you can fake it until you make it.
05-05-2019 11:15 AM
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partyfowl Offline
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Post: #107
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(05-05-2019 11:15 AM)midnight special Wrote:  
(05-05-2019 10:45 AM)Teo72 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 02:24 PM)Delta Wrote:  Even when a girl is interested enough to give me the time of day, it's still clear that she couldn't care less. I cannot reliably make something wonderful happen with a girl when they almost never have any motivation or urgency to meet me in the middle.

Just for the record, when people write that they go out and have sex with a new girl every night with no or limited effort I try to not believe them
So please do not buy the hype that there is a way to have sex so easily
At least, I do not know of any

Live somewhere good, be reasonably good looking, and have confidence. The rest you can fake it until you make it.

NEVER fake it until you make it. There's always the chance (and it's a VERY good chance) that you'll be called to "make it" before your ready.
05-05-2019 12:26 PM
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StrikeBack Offline
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Post: #108
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
I agree with RDF, that sounds like the phenomenon of poor target selections and bad game (possibly bad sex too). Also, the maths is not X approaches = 1 lay. If you have good target selections and half decent game, you'll often end up in at least a mini relationship where you bang her for quite a while. This is of course assuming that the girl is attractive, because why would you not want repeated bangs with an attractive chick, and why wouldn't her want to be around such an awesome guy like you more, right? When you see guys brag about X approaches per lay average, that to me sounds like a lot of mediocre bangs, one and done type.

StrikeBack's Wife School
(This post was last modified: 05-05-2019 06:14 PM by StrikeBack.)
05-05-2019 06:14 PM
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Spaniard in Germany Offline
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Post: #109
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(04-16-2019 02:39 AM)Noir Wrote:  Delta, you need a perspective shift. 'even when a girl is interested' - no, girls are always interested, they just don't always convey it until you invade their personal space, they are comfortable enough with being vulnerable to show it and other variables.
….
It's what we used to say, forcing IOIs as opposed to waiting for them.
Do you have the ability to be sexy and charismatic? Can you communicate this? do you have the ability to turn this from an active to a latent mode of operating around women so that you don't overthink and just BE?

Delta, do not listen to these guys. It is just not true, maybe in THEIR normie world, but it is not on mine and seemingly not in yours. Girls are either sexually interested in you in that moment or they are not (and it will be mostly not). The same way that if I do not want to fuck or do any social thing be it with a man or woman, there is no force in the Universe that can make me change my mind. I just do not want to in that moment. Girls are the same, they will not want to for some stupid reason.

But saying that you can MAKE THEM feel attracted to you? No, they are either attracted to you or they are not. It could be that they are attracted to you but are playing a avoidance drama, although no way you can make an unattracted girl turn attracted to you (unless you pay them to have sex for instance). There is absolutely no way you can game them into liking you (you could theoretically fuck their ugly friend and make her jealous so she will want to fuck you in revenge, but we are talking here we cant even fuck the ugly friend, we are outside normie world where these things happen), so these people are trying to sell snake oil.

Check this out:

(03-25-2019 02:58 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  I don't know about all this doom and gloom.

All women and girls want a man, and they are attracted to men. All women either have a boyfriend or are looking for one, except a pretty small percentage (less than 10%)
...
Takes me a week or two to get a new gf, when I want one.

From their perspective, from normie world perspective, it is a matter of a couple weeks. We have to acknowledge that for some obscure reason, women are OPEN to some men to touch and kiss, while they are CLOSED to some other men. It is not a matter of looks, money or status. It is not a matter of game. There is something else: socialization. Normies are inside the hivemind, so they do not understand all this gloom and doom. For us outsiders, however, no matter how many hundreds of women we approach, they ARE closed. Very few exceptional women, when the stars and the planets align, stop being closed to us. We are not tuned in to the crowd. As soon as you tune in into the matrix, the world gives back to you what you want.

But hey, it is just the world I am experiencing, here in Germany. Maybe in United States or Australia or somewhere else women are actually women and seem to want to have relationships or sex with men, but that is a parallel reality I haven't experienced. You cannot tell me I am lying because I am experiencing this. If you "pua slayers that pick up women every night" do not believe it, come to Germany and find out for yourself. We may be discovering that things that absolutely work in one place are completely useless in another. I sincerely wish you could prove me wrong. Somehow.
05-06-2019 04:36 AM
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PantyPeeler Offline
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Post: #110
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
You gotta bang these hoes.
05-06-2019 07:20 AM
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Delta Offline
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Post: #111
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
Update: Since receiving the advice in this thread of ending dates more quickly, escalating in the middle, and not going for the last second kiss (to leave ambiguity), I've tried it a few times. All led nowhere.

Here's what I've realized about the escalation thing: Most of the time I have a mental block to actually doing it, and end up having to force myself. It just doesn't feel right on a gut level. And the reason is I'm not actually all that attracted to these girls I'm going on dates with. I mean they're all above average looking (in a society where most people are decidedly fat), but their whole presentation just doesn't do much for me. Almost invariably, every girl I go on a date with dresses with the intention of conveying no sexual vibe whatsoever; we're talking every square inch of skin below the neck covered, even in warm weather. That would be fine if they were legitimately traditional girls, but... stalking their social media says otherwise. It's hot dresses to go out with the gurlz, and layers upon layers of form-concealing clothing to go out with me. Mildly insulting in a way. If the date is scheduled on a work day, they typically don't change out of their work clothes, and show up with that greasy, slightly disheveled after-work look... sometimes, in these cases, they even smell a bit. It's as though someone's out there warning every single girl "whatever you do, DO NOT give the impression that you care at all." I have no idea where they're getting the idea that this is the way to go. Or maybe they really do care that little.

Their conversational behavior is congruent with all this. Most of these girls have an extremely narrow range of topics they can talk about, and no energy or enthusiasm for any of it. No matter where I try and steer the conversation, it always gets funneled back to the girl droning on about her job. Any playful or vaguely sexual comment I try to work in is awkwardly brushed off. As you might imagine, this is not a great vibe for building attraction.

As I said, despite all this, I often push myself to escalate anyway, and to my surprise, it's really easy to get at least a light makeout, even when I'm not getting the best vibes. I don't know if this is because I'm underestimating how much these girls like me, or because they're so passive they just go along with anything regardless of whether they want it. The latter sounds kind of ridiculous but I think it might actually be plausible. The typical reaction I get when I start escalating a girl (rubbing her leg, holding her hand, etc.) is... none whatsoever. They just act like they don't notice. Almost no exceptions. Either way, it usually doesn't quite feel right to me, which probably means it doesn't quite feel right to them either. If they were to tell me they "didn't feel the connection" or something like that, I'd have to agree. I don't know how sexual/romantic passion can possibly be built with a person who's totally lackadaisical about the whole thing from the start, but nonetheless, these rejections aren't out of the blue. They make sense. I'm usually not feeling it either. The last couple of girls I met up with, I texted 3 days afterward, not because I was adhering to some 3 day rule, but because I just didn't care very much, and it finally occurred to me 3 days following the date "oh crap, I should text so-and-so." Neither one replied.

A while ago, not too long after posting the thread, I met a girl who was an exception. Our first date was basically an all day affair, and I legitimately enjoyed her company. I invited her back to my place for a second date, which she agreed to in theory, but then flaked out last minute and made up some reason why we should meet up in the middle again. So I did. And since then, her texts are clearly trying to encourage me and keep me around as an option, but every day I suggest doing something, she's "busy" but 'definitely wants to meet up again soon.' I've seen this pattern play out mannnyyyyy times recently. So far it has yet to lead anywhere good.

At this point I don't know what more I could possibly try other than a new location. I liked the advice here about keeping first dates short, because the longer ones waste wayyyyy too much time on something I usually don't enjoy, but I'm finding shorter dates to be totally ineffective. I agree with the advice about escalating harder, but there's a larger problem in the fact that I rarely have any visceral desire to (and it's not low libido). Sometimes I wonder if running lone-wolf game in a decidedly non-urban area, and expecting to land quality more than once in a blue moon, is just a fool's errand.
05-11-2019 12:33 AM
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RDF Offline
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Post: #112
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
Some questions: What do you actually want when it comes to women? In your day to day life, do you ever see women you are genuinely interested in? How often? What type of women are you interested in in the first place?

Ahead of anything else, dating should be fun. If you aren’t having fun with it, you’re doing something wrong man. You should focus on understanding what type of women you actually want and then exclusively pursuing them.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2019 02:42 AM by RDF.)
05-11-2019 02:38 AM
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outback Offline
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Post: #113
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
Seems to me that you're getting back what you're projecting -asexual boredom with life. These women ARE your life. You can complain about them etc. and how you live in the suburbs, but that's life. Everyone wants a relationship. But you're not what these girls want, because everyone wants a relationship with their Chad/Cindy (she doesn't have to be a 10, but she has to be ABCDE)... Chad does not live in the suburbs earning 120k at a respectable, stable job. Mid-life crisis balding Bob does that.

These girls are on their Cosmo forum saying the same thing about YOU. "This guy was good looking on his Tinder but then we met and it's like talking to my cousin at a Bbq when there's no one else to talk to, I wish these guys weren't so cliched and stereotypical".
And you can't necessarily break it down to the fact you can't get a second date, as if there's one missing piece in the 1st date process and then voila. The missing piece is your life. The whole thing. It's all intertwined.

Game was created to communicate succinctly to unattractive men. It's not organic. It's not how the world works. Look at the success rates of Professional Game authors.. It's still 1/100. Put a guy with a confident, no-stress attitude who's never heard of Game in a mall and tell him to get some dates and he'll do the same or better. It's not an engineering problem, even if this is the best way to communicate what's happening in female/male dating to men.

Rock stars get laid. Poor, no-name rock stars. Have a look at a documentary on Elvis. You'll never see better insight into female sexuality. A hick, weirdo got up on stage, did his hip shaking, and women's sexual liberation was catalysed, his hip shaking literally was the catalyst that changed the world in this regard. To me, that's a powerful idea.
You gotta be an organic man. Having a good job has no relation to female sexual desire. Your Instagram account and team sports mean jacks#*t. If she sees you being a monster on the court/field then it's different. Female sexuality is visual, raw and the same as men's.

To prove my point: years ago was in a club, 7th night in a row on tour with 2 friends, one a massive Game fan. I was so tired by that night, I didn't care. I hadn't had success. I just wanted to sleep, but went out anyway as was last night. So was completely relaxed, obviously not giving off any anxious or worried vibes which chicks pick up from most guys on dates and naturally hate. I fell asleep in this club on a stool, and my Game friend was so angry, 'don't sit down, rule #74 of the Game' 'you're not peacocking' bla bla, anyway I get up from snoozing in a prominent spot and this cute chicks looking at me and says I'm cute. I pick her up right there and best sex of my life. Because I didn't give a f+ck. I wasn't trying, wasn't thinking, i'd fallen asleep! I was a guy being his natural self, no other guy in that place was.. they were all thinking of IOIs and d-floor positioning and self conscious etc.
You gotta set up your life for natural, relaxed, vibes to flow. Your self imposed pressure about looks, job, logistics bla bla is just killing your inner man.

Your situation won't change until you let go.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2019 04:10 AM by outback.)
05-11-2019 03:31 AM
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moonlight_sonata Offline
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Post: #114
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(05-11-2019 03:31 AM)outback Wrote:  I pick her up right there and best sex of my life. Because I didn't give a f+ck. I wasn't trying, wasn't thinking, i'd fallen asleep! I was a guy being his natural self, no other guy in that place was.. they were all thinking of IOIs and d-floor positioning and self conscious etc.

You can't look at a single event that occurred probably by extreme chance and make a whole generalization about how this shit works. Naturals don't need game because they have game. Becoming a natural when you're not a natural is where game helps. The whole process starts when we're teenagers, even earlier. Who's going to teach those kids?
05-11-2019 06:53 AM
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Neo Offline
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Post: #115
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(05-11-2019 12:33 AM)Delta Wrote:  Here's what I've realized about the escalation thing: Most of the time I have a mental block to actually doing it, and end up having to force myself. It just doesn't feel right on a gut level. And the reason is I'm not actually all that attracted to these girls I'm going on dates with. I mean they're all above average looking (in a society where most people are decidedly fat), but their whole presentation just doesn't do much for me. Almost invariably, every girl I go on a date with dresses with the intention of conveying no sexual vibe whatsoever.

As I said, despite all this, I often push myself to escalate anyway, and to my surprise, it's really easy to get at least a light makeout, even when I'm not getting the best vibes. I don't know if this is because I'm underestimating how much these girls like me, or because they're so passive they just go along with anything regardless of whether they want it. The latter sounds kind of ridiculous but I think it might actually be plausible. The typical reaction I get when I start escalating a girl (rubbing her leg, holding her hand, etc.) is... none whatsoever. They just act like they don't notice. Almost no exceptions. Either way, it usually doesn't quite feel right to me which probably means it doesn't quite feel right to them either. If they were to tell me they "didn't feel the connection" or something like that, I'd have to agree.

Ok, been following this thread. On one hand you are correct things have gotten more difficult. I want to focus on the bolded though and suggest to just get back to the basics.

You need to follow your instincts and your little head when you are choosing women to date.

As in does she legitimately turn you on? This is something that can't be determined from an online dating profile and happens only in person. Getting aroused by images on the screen is not the same.

The first prerequisite is that you have a healthy T level and are energized sexually.

The second is that to succeed there must be strong desire on your part.

When you chat, flirt, and escalate do you start feeling something more than the wind below the belt? Is there that vibe and feeling of anticipation where you just feel something is going to happen? Cause if not she probably isn't feeling it either.

There's two old Roosh posts The Boner Test and The Rabid Wolf Mentality that outline these concepts.

Your body knows better than your mind if a date is going well and that she wants to get down. Learn to trust that instinct.

Ignore all that playing it super cool and being nonsexual nonsense, she has to want you and you have to want her for it to work.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2019 08:13 AM by Neo.)
05-11-2019 08:11 AM
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velkrum Offline
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Post: #116
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(03-24-2019 02:24 PM)Delta Wrote:  my physique could easily pass for that of a high level athlete. I make six figures. I'm not an acne-ridden neckbeard, I groom and dress in a way that looks put together. I socialize regularly. I'm not on the spectrum. I've read (and put into practice) way too much game material. I do not know what more I could do in terms of value maxing

I have no idea what I can do to improve the situation.

Is this normal?
Great work on your accomplishments; you are the type of man we ALL should aspire to become.

Possible reasons you are having a rough time with women could be linked to factors OUT of your control, such as your facial bone structure and facial features.

Personality, Money, Fashion, Muscles and Confidence do very little when it comes to attraction.

I didn't write this but I found it to be accurate in my personal experience.

Factors that create attraction and love in women are:
  • Height: The taller the better.
  • Frame: The wider the shoulders the better.
  • Penis: The longer and thicker, the better.
  • Eyebrows: Low set, long horizontally, thick and dark coloured.
  • Eyes: Long papebral fissude, deep set eyeballs, positive canthal tilt, no eyelid exposure, horizontal lower eyelid, pressence of limbal rings.
  • Cheekbones: High and portruding. Wide and flanged zygomatic bones.
  • Browridge: Low and forward set.
  • Mouth: Wide enough to reach the distance between pupils. Lower lip larger than upper lip.
  • Nose: Width equivalent to approximately half of mouth width. No bulbous or very thin tip. No upwards point tip. Distance between mouth and nose (philtrum) should not excede 16 mm.
  • Maxilla: Wide palate, position of moth more forward than the browridge.
  • Jaw: Almost as wide as zygomatic bones but not wider, with around 100-110* gonial angle. Long ramus (or if ramus is not long, higher set ears)
  • Chin: projecting, minimum having the same projection as your lips, square, defined and tall.
  • Hair: thick, darkish coloured hair. Low and square hairline.
  • Complexion: (Skin clarity, bright, healthy appearance, taut, no wrinkles, small pores, and color)
  • Body fat. Attractive male faces are based on sharp angles. Lower body fat accentuates bone structure which creates chiseled/angular aesthetic.

everything else is OPTIONAL !

Unfortunately I am only offering a reason not a solution to your problem. I believe having an understanding of a situation makes accepting it much easier.

You can learn more about attraction by searching black pill attractiveness on youtube, you can also observe the real world and see for yourself that Superior game WILL NOT overcome Inferior genetics unless you luck into a relationship.
05-11-2019 11:44 AM
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Arturbala Offline
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Post: #117
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(03-24-2019 02:24 PM)Delta Wrote:  Now the solution would seem simple; "self-improve until you're high-value," if not for the fact that I already have about as much as I'm capable of. I lift and play sports routinely, and while you wouldn't mistake me for a body-builder, my physique could easily pass for that of a high level athlete. I make six figures and girls could easily guess that if they looked up what I do for a living. I'm not an acne-ridden neckbeard, I groom and dress in a way that looks put together. I socialize regularly. I'm not on the spectrum. I've read (and put into practice) way too much game material. I do not know what more I could do in terms of value maxing.

You got the value thing half-right. External things like your body, career, activitites, money etc is valuable but doesn't made her pussy wet. It's your attitude, how you present yourself, do you have self-worth and any boundaries, are you funny etc - what made her pussy wet, interested in you.

The thing is based on what you're saying... you're not FUN, carefree guy. I assume what's the main reason why you are not converting your dates and they don't reach out to you after... Too logical.

I think dates/socialising with women supposes to be fun. Try to have fun on a date. Do what makes you laugh. You can have fun talking to her in non logical way or have fun in sexual manner (touching, kissing, slapping etc). Forget for now about fucking them and see how this gonna play out (if they'are gonna go on 2/3 date with you/reach out to you or not)

PS. Please don't take this message too personal. Just want to help you
05-11-2019 05:50 PM
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yang2287 Online
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Post: #118
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
I already told OP what to do, don't know if you applied this, check my response on the first page.

You're still doing same things and rightly getting the same results. I never saw anyone talk their way into an LTR

Basically when these girls come out on a date
with you they expect to be f***ed. Again If she is not expecting to be f***ed, why are you giving 2 hours of your time to a time waster?

If you're not making sex happen, then I don't see how you can expect date 2 or date 3

Again OP let me repeat you should be looking to SNL or ZDB or SDL these girls. I'm sorry but this is 2019

I see you get many dates so looks is not the issue. You're probably very logical as someone up there mentioned.

I suggest you don't talk too much when you're with a girl, let her do the talking, you focus on being physical and leading to the bang. The reason is that you could say something that could appear Judgy that stops the girl showing you her slutty side.

Learn to make girls comfortable enough to show you her slutty side. Don't appear Judgy

Get an Airbnb in the city, f*** the girl and talk later (if you do want her for LTR, FWB or repeat bangs). You can change your Story later, "I'm moving to the surbubs"
If you have the money you say you do Airbnb should not be a problem.


Another option is to bang the girl in her place, this is really easy, ask the girl if she lives alone
as a shit test and invite yourself over to watch cat videos on YouTube or some shit.

Being rich is useless if it is to be used for convincing these girls you're a provider, it should be used for making difficult things easier like getting better logistics.

DON'T kiss a girl before, after or during the date if she is not in a private location (a place with a bed or couch) with you.

Use A LOT of eye contact to communicate sexuality

Make things easy for the girl each step of the way, Don't invite the girl to see you in the surbubs by driving 45mins away, the city center is always better.

If a girl comes on a date with you she expects to be f***ed. Make it happen
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2019 11:58 PM by yang2287.)
05-11-2019 11:20 PM
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Alpone Offline
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Post: #119
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
I've read a couple of OP's previous posts. They're well written and informative, but there's a lingering negativity/burnt-outness about dating & women in them. I guarantee this vibe is coming out during your dates. Sort of a "Let's get this over with" or "Please god let this one go well" vibe.

I also agree with another commenter that a date should be fun and an escape from the drudgery of work and everyday life. I don't sense any playfulness or joy during your dates. It seems like you're talking about work. Girls hate to be bored and they hate boring men. Being in shape, having a square jaw and some height will get initial attraction, but if you're boring, you're on borrowed time. I'd work on being more playful during your dates. Pretend you're in kindergarten (well, except for the kissing/sex part). Open a date by blowing a paper straw wrapper at her. Then say "ops". This is 100x better than asking dumbfuck questions about her job or hobbies.

I also think you need to begin approaching if online girls aren't passing the boner test. Find a girl who inspires you during day/night game and things will be a lot easier.
05-11-2019 11:21 PM
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DimeBait Offline
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Post: #120
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
It’s easy to say have fun on dates when over half of the women are boring af. I find myself feeling like an entertainer just to enjoy myself. The repeated performance, ultimately, just for some rigid poosy, does gets old, so I can definitely relate. I just stop dating for periods at a time until my decent poosy well runs dry then it’s rinse & repeat lol. Le Sigh

"Don't ever let a woman rape your time." ~kaotic~
05-11-2019 11:27 PM
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Alpone Offline
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Post: #121
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
Quote:The repeated performance, ultimately, just for some rigid poosy, does gets old

If you're not being playful for your own amusement and inner joy, you're doing it wrong.
05-11-2019 11:36 PM
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DimeBait Offline
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Post: #122
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
Shitty energy women is not within your control. When you’re talking about 30-50 women a year it’s easier said than done. However, I’ve learned to cut it short when I’m not enjoying myself

"Don't ever let a woman rape your time." ~kaotic~
05-11-2019 11:45 PM
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MaceTyrell
Arturbala Offline
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Post: #123
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(05-11-2019 11:27 PM)DimeBait Wrote:  It’s easy to say have fun on dates when over half of the women are boring af.

If you say that women boring.. then maybe you're boring? (not you specifically haha).

Because you have control to take interaction/date in whatever direction you want for the sake of your own fun. Be creative. You can even tease them that they're boring haha. You CAN create a shitshow
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2019 12:22 AM by Arturbala.)
05-12-2019 12:21 AM
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MaceTyrell Offline
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Post: #124
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
What an honest thread this is. High quality discussion all around.

My favorite takeaway is the lone wolf angle takedown. Simply ain’t worth it anymore. Just got back from a quasi-night out at a venue where every attractive woman was with there for a guy.

Your best bet is figuring out what your exact “game goal” is and working from there.

For example, my #1 goal is to notch 9 new women over 2019. 5/9ths the way there.

Therefore, this makes me more willing to experiment and try some light night game, day game and rebuilding social circle.

Cause yeah, that lone wolf shit doesn’t work anymore.
05-12-2019 12:39 AM
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shakeitt Offline
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Posts: 60
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Post: #125
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(05-12-2019 12:39 AM)MaceTyrell Wrote:  What an honest thread this is. High quality discussion all around.

My favorite takeaway is the lone wolf angle takedown. Simply ain’t worth it anymore. Just got back from a quasi-night out at a venue where every attractive woman was with there for a guy.

Your best bet is figuring out what your exact “game goal” is and working from there.

For example, my #1 goal is to notch 9 new women over 2019. 5/9ths the way there.

Therefore, this makes me more willing to experiment and try some light night game, day game and rebuilding social circle.

Cause yeah, that lone wolf shit doesn’t work anymore.

YES.

Dude....I literally...just this WEEK realized that my lone wolf tactic which has been my personality and style for almost a decade...needs to be adjusted.

And what I realized is that for 8's, 9's 10's....social media is a must (mostly).

Dudes on here will talk about third world or developing countries....look. I've traveled the world three times over. Smartphones are all you need for Instagram...etc.

It will catch up.

The lone wolf is a dying breed.

It's horrible. I hate it....but it's time to develop a strong social circle and social media game. Fuck modern society. But if that's what it takes for beautiful young women...I mean fuck it.
05-12-2019 12:44 AM
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