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The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
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MaceTyrell Offline
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Post: #126
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(05-04-2019 10:56 AM)RDF Wrote:  
(05-03-2019 10:54 PM)Delta Wrote:  With this same amount of time and effort, you could have gotten a new business off the ground from scratch, or learned to code and forged a lucrative career path. But instead, your reward was getting to fuck ONE mediocre girl a couple of times. Anyone see the problem?

Yes. The problem is likely poor game, poor target selection, or both. It should not take "hundreds of hours" to fuck one woman. If it does, the problem is you.

It's easy to talk about how fucked up the dating market is, because that serves as an excuse to justify lack of results. When I'm on a dry streak, I don't look to blame women for not sleeping with me. I look inwards to understand what I am doing wrong and work to fix it.

When I go out to bars or go out for a walk, I see plenty of good looking women, plenty of couples, plenty of guys hooking up. The dating market looks fine. It isn't perfect, of course, but it never has been. Plenty of men out there still have a completely normal sex life and are reasonably happy with the women. Things aren't as bad as they seem on the internet.

1. OP lays out phenomenal argument backed by actual numbers to determine a yield from game (1 notch for 215 daytime approaches)
2. We get typical RVF mouth breather argument of "just try harder bro" not backed by actual numbers, just hearsay (I see plenty of guys hooking up - don't mind that I haven't posted my actual yield from game efforts)

OP isn't arguing for NOT DOING ANYTHING. He's still learning game at a great pace. It's the yield simply not being worth it. Even if he's able to get his yield up to 1/50, that's still 50 approaches and all the time involved with it.

At this point I'd only approach 7s and higher. If I'm going to get blown out, it might as well be by someone I find very attractive.
05-12-2019 06:00 AM
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Delta Offline
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Post: #127
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(05-11-2019 02:38 AM)RDF Wrote:  Some questions: What do you actually want when it comes to women? In your day to day life, do you ever see women you are genuinely interested in? How often? What type of women are you interested in in the first place?

Ahead of anything else, dating should be fun. If you aren’t having fun with it, you’re doing something wrong man. You should focus on understanding what type of women you actually want and then exclusively pursuing them.

I have an incredibly clear picture of the type of woman I'm into... much more so than most guys (or my younger self) who go crazy over every thotty looking 6+. I could write a massive dissertation here about everything I look for in a woman aside from being attractive, but there's no need.

The problem lies in my answers to your 2nd question, which is no, in my day to day life, I hardly ever come across any single women between the ages of 18 and 30, let alone ones I'd be genuinely interested in.

It's worth mentioning that I've basically chosen to play the game on ultra-hard mode as a tradeoff for optimizing other aspects of life. My SNL logistics are awful, and I live in a place that Roosh is on record saying is a serious problem area that he gets a lot of complaints from without ever having heard a success story. I spent a brief stint in NYC and, while my sample size there was way too small to say anything conclusively, I will say that the vibe I got from the girls there was 180 degrees different, in a good way.

What I do have going for me, and why I don't pack my bags for a pussy paradise, is that I don't really expect to date up in terms of attractiveness or be a superstar player. A relationship with a looksmatched girl I like as a human being is all it takes to make me happy as a clam... and I've achieved that before multiple times using the same methodology I am now, but damn does it seem like it's gotten harder this time around.
05-12-2019 11:45 AM
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velkrum Offline
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Post: #128
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(05-12-2019 11:45 AM)Delta Wrote:  I've chosen to play the game on ultra-hard mode. I live in a place that Roosh is on record saying is a serious problem area that he gets a lot of complaints from.

A relationship with a looksmatched girl I like as a human being is all it takes to make me happy. I've achieved that before multiple times using the same methodology but it's gotten harder this time around.

You've answered your own question. There is no magical piece of advice anyone can give that will make water appear in a desert.

Game, status and wealth, each accounts for 15% (45% total) of success with women; looks account for 55%. If the single available women in your town are NOT into your looks...you won't get girls.

A fisherman that only has bait to catch Tuna will starve in Salmon infested waters. Quickly do what you need to do in your current location and move back to Tuna filled lakes.

Inferior Game + Inferior Genetics = Incel
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Superior Game + Average Genetics = Beta Bucks
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Superior Game + Superior Genetics = God mode activated
05-12-2019 05:04 PM
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Post: #129
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(05-12-2019 11:45 AM)Delta Wrote:  
(05-11-2019 02:38 AM)RDF Wrote:  Some questions: What do you actually want when it comes to women? In your day to day life, do you ever see women you are genuinely interested in? How often? What type of women are you interested in in the first place?

Ahead of anything else, dating should be fun. If you aren’t having fun with it, you’re doing something wrong man. You should focus on understanding what type of women you actually want and then exclusively pursuing them.

I have an incredibly clear picture of the type of woman I'm into... much more so than most guys (or my younger self) who go crazy over every thotty looking 6+. I could write a massive dissertation here about everything I look for in a woman aside from being attractive, but there's no need.

The problem lies in my answers to your 2nd question, which is no, in my day to day life, I hardly ever come across any single women between the ages of 18 and 30, let alone ones I'd be genuinely interested in.

It's worth mentioning that I've basically chosen to play the game on ultra-hard mode as a tradeoff for optimizing other aspects of life. My SNL logistics are awful, and I live in a place that Roosh is on record saying is a serious problem area that he gets a lot of complaints from without ever having heard a success story. I spent a brief stint in NYC and, while my sample size there was way too small to say anything conclusively, I will say that the vibe I got from the girls there was 180 degrees different, in a good way.

What I do have going for me, and why I don't pack my bags for a pussy paradise, is that I don't really expect to date up in terms of attractiveness or be a superstar player. A relationship with a looksmatched girl I like as a human being is all it takes to make me happy as a clam... and I've achieved that before multiple times using the same methodology I am now, but damn does it seem like it's gotten harder this time around.

Delta

Youre logistics are a barrier Ive already commented on here.

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-72720...pid1965810

Good logistics isn't just good for facilitating an initial bang (customer acquisition) . It also helps with follow up bangs (customer retention). If you live in cool place or near fun stuff its a big big plus in your asset column on a chick's "attraction" ledger

But Im also wondering...Is it possible your desire for a relationship is "leaking"?

Unless a girl is already viewing you as BF material (and wanting that herself...which begs the question "How are you screening them?") then any kind of expectation beyond the date at hand can read to her as neediness / weakness. And we all know how weakness kills attraction

Ive always subscribed to a "Kill em all and let God sort em out" philosophy when it comes to relationships. Just substitute bang for kill. In other words: Id always take some pussy. If it ends up as something more...great! But there little chance of knowing that on a first date

Its hard not to care if you'll see a girl you like again when the ones you actually like are few and far between...but that's exactly the rub youre up against

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-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
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(This post was last modified: 05-12-2019 07:35 PM by PapayaTapper.)
05-12-2019 07:18 PM
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Post: #130
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
PPT nailed it.

Based on following this thread from the very start, I would say your issues are centered around these 3 problems (not necessarily in order of importance), several of which are inter-related.

1) Terrible logistics. For an SNL, for meeting a high number of good quality leads, and for maintaining a relationship. When you have bad logistics, everything else is an uphill climb. To me this links directly to the following two problems.

2) Lack of abundance. Abundance is the centerpiece of game as we know it. When you don't have a lot of options, neediness will shine through. This isn't even because of poor game, its just natural. You can play the DGAF game all you want, but if in the back of your mind you know this is your first date in 2 weeks and you have no clue when your next one will be, you WILL act different and the girl WILL notice. This is especially true when you meet a high quality prospect who you actually like.

3) Clear desire for a relationship and a lack of genuine interest in dating. Just from reading your posts, you do not enjoy going on dates, and you're basically waiting to meet a decent (ie: "looksmatched") girl so you can check out of the game and call it a life. This mentality not only leads to neediness, but also to a blase/boring attitude. In the US in particular, girls wants a guy who is actually enjoyable to be around. It is also likely a reason why you don't feel "comfortable" escalating. You just aren't into playing the game.

I have no desire to be the guy who says "just move bro!" and I am aware that there are plenty of reasons why things aren't that simple. However, there is just no simple solution with your logistics. From what I can tell, it isn't even that you live in a small town (where you can build social circles through church, etc), you live in suburbia. Suburbia is the absolute worst place in the US for dating as a 25+ guy. People either move to suburbia to raise kids, or they are the "kids" being raised. If you truly live 15 minutes away from the nearest reasonable date spot and your closest prospects tend to be 30 minutes away, that will make dating challenging.

If you are unable to fix your logistics and regain an interest in dating and playing the game (I would even consider taking a break as others mentioned earlier), you will have to accept that it will be a slow burn. The majority of the advice here, aside from when you're already in a relationship, usually carries the assumption that there are a good number of reasonable prospects that you can pursue. When that assumption is broken, lots of the advice goes out the window.

I have little doubt that if your SMV is as you present it, you will eventually find a decent chick even in your current situation. It may just take much longer than you're willing to wait.
05-16-2019 12:02 AM
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PapayaTapper
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Post: #131
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
I think part of the problem is your looking at yourself like a future NFL draft pick that just aced the combine. You have all the measurables.

-In good shape=4.4 40 yard dash
-100k a year=Understands the game
-Reads Game Material=Studies Tape
-Social=Leadership skills/captain

All that doesn't matter if you can't play the game though. I think a lot of guys forget that. Women are led by emotions so you have to make them feel. Making them feel is playing the damn game.
05-16-2019 07:02 AM
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Post: #132
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
I totally appreciate what you guys are saying about logistics hurting me in lots of different ways. But my issues run deeper than just bad logistics.

A couple weeks ago I had a date with a girl near her place, and made my way in using Roosh's patented "I have to pee" method. After I used her bathroom we made out for a bit, I started trying to undress her, and she said 'not tonight' or something like that... and I actually felt relieved. Why? Because it just didn't feel right. It didn't feel like the culmination of a couple hours of built up sexual tension, it felt like something I'd strategically forced to happen (which it was). We didn't really vibe and I just wasn't that into her, and I have no doubt the whole formulaic feel scared her off from doing anything. Can't blame that on logistics.

Now if this were an isolated incident then it would be meaningless, but the only thing unusual about it was getting into a private place where fucking would be logistically feasible. The *feeling* of not connecting emotionally and not having much physical attraction is the typical scenario. In other words, even if I had a bachelor pad 200 feet from a solid first date venue, I'd still have trouble escalating the sexual tension to the point where the girl is in the mood to bang and I am too.

RDF refers to one first date every two weeks as though it's a horrible dearth of dates, but to even get one that often, I have to take chances on girls and overlook some pretty fundamental red flags. Most girls I meet either are either a league below me in objective value, have the personality of a bag of rocks, or bring the same level of enthusiasm for the date as they do for exchanging small talk with their dental hygienist (or some combination of the three). And this is with me being exceptionally selective with who I actually meet from the apps. A while ago I tallied things up and found that I was only meeting 1 in 30 matches. If I were to only meet girls I felt good about on a gut level, that figure would be more like 1 in 100 and I'd have a first date maybe every month or two. This whole dynamic causes my emotions to ebb and flow between "I literally couldn't care less about this dating stuff" 90+% of the time, and "NOTHING ELSE MATTERS, I NEED TO CHECK MY PHONE EVERY 3 MINUTES" in the rare instances when I meet a girl that actually affects my sexual and romantic hormones. Not healthy.

So talking through this has clarified in my mind that the pond I'm fishing in is very much the issue, even though I "get plenty of leads," because almost all of those leads are worth shit. But at the same time, whenever I post something like this, I get replies and/or a PM from guys who say they're having similar experiences. Seems like what I'm describing might be more universal than specific to my location. What if I alter my life to get to a major city, only to find that the grass really isn't much greener over there? I think what would be most helpful for me, and for a lot of guys reading this I'm sure, is for guys who have gamed in different environments (rural, suburban, urban) to compare their experiences. Apologies if there's a thread on that topic already, if so I haven't seen it.
05-16-2019 10:34 PM
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Klan Killer Offline
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Post: #133
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
Bro this is entirely due to two things:

1) Your trash ass location. I'm in a suburb myself. It's probably a better suburb than where you are (better weather, from what I gather you're on the east coast), but it's still a suburb. Logistics are horrible. I live with my parents which makes it worse. I go on dates for fun and get as much action as I can in cars/in the great outdoors. But even with a place, I probably would never be a super player in this location. The most successful guys I know in suburbs have a couple FWB's and that's it.

Trying to pull in a shitty location is like trying to sell complex software to businesses in rural Oklahoma. Yeah it's possible, but you're at such a massive disadvantage due to location that it makes no sense to blame your product or yourself.

2) It just takes a lot of time to find a girl that you actually like and want to spend time with. It took four years of game, forty + lays and hookups, thousands of approaches and thousands of swipes. Most guys who don't play the game and are instead serial monogamists have enormous dry spells and get very little action between relationships. My buddy has had two serious and meaningful relationships, but between them he had a four year dryspell without much female attention.
05-16-2019 11:28 PM
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Post: #134
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
@Delta

I eat every day. Usually more than once. On any given day a meal can be anything from a piece of fruit, or a sandwich to the occasional 3 Michelin star tasting menu.

Some meals are eaten simply because Im hungry and that burrito off the food truck satisfies that hunger....a basic human need.

Occasionally over the years I have been pleasantly surprised when I stumbled by accident onto some meals/foods that were extraordinary.

But even the richest most delicious meal still satisfies that most basic human need: hunger.

When I eat off the taco truck should I be dissatisfied?

Only if I expect every meal to be a perfectly braised and glazed foie gras

Im on a steady diet of Japanese Wagyu Rib Eye now (metaphorically ). But I have been lucky enough to enjoy my humble tacos, sandwiches, salads etc. along the way. Each and every meal an experience independently satisfying from the other.

If youre not enjoying any meals at all then maybe youre not hungry enough*




*Have you had your T levels checked? That can also be a reason for your lack of "appetite"

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
05-17-2019 03:10 PM
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AneroidOcean Offline
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Post: #135
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
My game improved DRAMATICALLY when I moved to a solid location. Some of the benefits of moving from a shit location to a "good" one. In no particular order:

1. Meet lots of people (I can meet them at a bar, a restaurant, a hotel pool/lounge, the beach, or just off my patio as they walk to the beach.
2. Easy to walk to the nightlife even if just for a single drink means you get recognized/noticed/appreciated for being a local/cool guy.
3. Pre-party/after-party location (easy to invite people for either depending on the situation).
4. Walk a girl down to the beach and up to my place for a night-cap.
5. Host parties big enough for others to invite their friends (especially girls).
6. Meet other social-connector people. This one is HUGE. I've met so many people through becoming a social guy and becoming good friends with social-connector people.
7. Involved in a sport/global community. Meet people from all over the country and the world. I can fly to multiple states and have multiple contacts so I can be introduced to an entire group of athletic/social people and get exercise and socialize all in one. I probably even have a free or very cheap place to stay. I can even fly to multiple countries and land with a social group/activity group already prepared and looking forward to my arrival. I'm not even that amazing of a guy, but if you pull yourself up out even slightly above the average the dividends you can reap are HUGE.

I'll NEVER go back to living in a boring/failure town or city again. It's soul-crushing.

I think you have a lot of problems to solve, but living in a crap area is I think your #1. Even renting a shitty room in a shared living space in a far better town is WAY better than having a 3-bedroom house to yourself in a shit town.

Good luck.

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05-17-2019 03:44 PM
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Post: #136
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
^Ding ding ding.

My BJJ gym in my suburb is a great place, but it's socially dead. The guys aren't all grabbing beers after practice and throwing bangers. They compete together and it's a great vibe, but I would imagine sports associations in big cities would be pretty different.

I'm not going to knock all suburbs. I stay with my folks, stack mad money, and get to kick it with the guys I grew up with. Getting ass is 10x harder than it was in college or it would be in a city, but at the same time, I get to be part of an actual community that I have roots in.

But for game it's a no brainer. If you were a salesman, you'd want to sell in a rich territory with a ton of buyers. You wouldn't want to be selling in rural Oklahoma (to use my last example).
05-17-2019 03:58 PM
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Delta Offline
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Post: #137
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
Appreciate all the insights. Believe me, the location issue is not lost on me.

@Papaya, lack of sex drive is not and never has been an issue for me. It's more that I have a weird anxiety about trying to force a bang with a girl when it's just not there. Maybe I still have some lingering feminist brainwashing contaminating my unconscious mind. I don't know. Whatever the reason, sometimes it just doesn't seem right on a gut level. I have a pretty average notch count, which is enough girls to understand how the mating dance is supposed to feel. I very seldom encounter it anymore. These later 20's girls just seem like they've totally lost touch with their sexuality (or maybe they never had it to begin with, hence why they're single at that age).
05-17-2019 07:57 PM
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Klan Killer Offline
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Post: #138
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
But even in supposedly good locations, I still get what Delta is saying. I went to college at a huge party school and racked up more than thirty notches by my early twenties. But if I'm being honest it was hard as fuck. I was getting shit faced most weekends for two years and day and night gamed pretty heavily. I'd give myself a 6 in looks with my height and athletic build playing in my favor.

I wonder if other guys have to work this ridiculously hard just to get laid. I later switched mostly to daygame to preserve my health. I had success -- something like six pretty hot girls banged off of daygame -- but holy fuck the amount of work I had to put in was ridiculous. Even meeting my last LTR (who I met off of Tinder) took years of swiping, shitty dates, flakes, etc etc. Literally the equivalent of finding a needle in a haystack.

Is shit this difficult for everyone or is it just me? I think unless you're in a cool frat in college or are top 5% attractiveness, this situation is not uncommon. I know guys of every race and look who seemed to struggle with laying girls consistently.

The solution for me is to become that top 5% man (good physique, good style etc). I'm very from maxing out my looks. I think with an extra twenty pounds of muscle, some better style, and a better location I could have an easier time.

But holy fuck has it been a grind my whole life.
05-17-2019 09:18 PM
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Post: #139
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
Are you in Toronto? Try Montreal or Quebec City.

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05-17-2019 11:04 PM
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RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
@Klan Killer

http://www.westindianarchie.com/numbers-game-revisited/

sounds like you’re not hooking these girls emotionally. might be time to change it up.
05-18-2019 12:43 PM
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Post: #141
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(05-17-2019 07:57 PM)Delta Wrote:  Appreciate all the insights. Believe me, the location issue is not lost on me.

@Papaya, lack of sex drive is not and never has been an issue for me. It's more that I have a weird anxiety about trying to force a bang with a girl when it's just not there. Maybe I still have some lingering feminist brainwashing contaminating my unconscious mind. I don't know. Whatever the reason, sometimes it just doesn't seem right on a gut level. I have a pretty average notch count, which is enough girls to understand how the mating dance is supposed to feel. I very seldom encounter it anymore. These later 20's girls just seem like they've totally lost touch with their sexuality (or maybe they never had it to begin with, hence why they're single at that age).

It sounds like the symptoms you described are exactly what lack of sex drive is though. With a high sex drive, you dont think about any of that shit. You just think about fucking. When I'm going through something and my sex drive is low, I too think about all kinds of bullshit like you described. I don't think you are describing anything unique, no offense.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2019 01:06 PM by Repo.)
05-18-2019 01:04 PM
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Post: #142
RE: The fundamental problem that I have no idea how to solve
(05-17-2019 07:57 PM)Delta Wrote:  Appreciate all the insights. Believe me, the location issue is not lost on me.

@Papaya, lack of sex drive is not and never has been an issue for me. It's more that I have a weird anxiety about trying to force a bang with a girl when it's just not there. Maybe I still have some lingering feminist brainwashing contaminating my unconscious mind. I don't know. Whatever the reason, sometimes it just doesn't seem right on a gut level. I have a pretty average notch count, which is enough girls to understand how the mating dance is supposed to feel. I very seldom encounter it anymore. These later 20's girls just seem like they've totally lost touch with their sexuality (or maybe they never had it to begin with, hence why they're single at that age).

What I was trying to convey through my (albeit crude) food analogy above is that if your "hungry" enough even a shitty meal, can taste like the best thing youve ever eaten. Go on a 3 day fast and I bet a shitty bean and cheese burrito from Taco Bell will taste better than any gourmet meal. So sex drive at some level is likely a factor to a degree

In addition to what sounds like a poor pool for poon talent due to your location your dealing with the inevitable change that comes with age. Perhaps youve basically outgrown your capacity for infatuation . Thats something we as men all go through (or we should). AKA..maturity

I remember a GF when I was around 19 or so who I couldn't wait to see every day. Not only were we banging like rabbits every day but I actually got the "butterflies" in anticipation of seeing / banging her.

At some point (dont remember exactly) a few years later I remember realizing that I was never going to have that same level of "irrational exuberance" ever again and sort of being bummed about it. But at the same time it was empowering to know that no matter how strikingly hot and how cool a girl was she was just a bag of flesh the same as me.

Dont get me wrong I still maintained the capacity to thoroughly enjoy spending time with some truly wonderful and gorgeous women. But the proverbial pedestal is gone. The "magic" of women is gone and that may seem a little sad (it in a very real way is the loss of innocence) but the flip side is without the mystery ...they hold little power

Finally you as you say yourself may be carrying some of the imposed guilt societal conditioning tries to burden men with when it comes to sex. We're taught that having sex with a woman is synonymous with "taking".

Get over that If your giving a woman a quality dicking she's receiving as much as she's giving.

You should definitely let go of that bullshit.

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2019 03:08 PM by PapayaTapper.)
05-18-2019 02:41 PM
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