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The God pill
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Tex Offline
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Post: #776
RE: The God pill
I figured I should post the screenshots of my gf breaking up with me to show the true extent of what I was talking about earlier today.

[Image: 5oeEl8T.jpg]

[Image: t1AEoUr.jpg]

[Image: bbd5ole.jpg]

The only reason she called me a liar here is because I lied by omission in not telling her I was getting baptized yesterday. And she makes it sound like I'm Jason Bourne with my "double life." All because I got baptized. You'd think something else had to be going on behind the scenes but nope.

I have never seen this kind of reaction, out of blue, from any girl I've ever dated for anything I've ever done. The God Pill comes with sacrifices and apparently some will treat you like you you did something horrific. I mean those texts are so outlandish you would honestly think I cheated on her with a guy and gave her AIDS.

The God Pill is MUCH more ostracizing than anything else we've talked about on this forum.
06-12-2019 12:29 AM
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Post: #777
RE: The God pill
(06-12-2019 12:29 AM)Tex Wrote:  I figured I should post the screenshots of my gf breaking up with me to show the true extent of what I was talking about earlier today.

*snip*

The God Pill is MUCH more ostracizing than anything else we've talked about on this forum.

Those screenshots are almost indistinguishable from some of the backlash in the rule update thread. It wouldn't surprise me if Roosh got PMs and emails that looked like that.
06-12-2019 12:58 AM
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #778
RE: The God pill
(06-11-2019 05:22 PM)Pinkman Wrote:  I was raised Atheist but I've gotten interested in the spiritual path lately. A few genuine questions for the people who have turned to Christ from Atheism or Agnosticism:

1. Do you see your specific brand (Catholicism/Protestantism/Baptism etc) as the true faith/path or are you following it more for cultural/social reasons? And what made you choose that specific brand of Christianity? Did you read through what each one was about or did you choose it because it was the first brand you were exposed to?

2. What did you read that sold you on the Christian faith and made you into a believer? What specific books (or parts of them) convinced you?

3. Have you been convinced logically or is it more of a "feel"? If the latter, how come you chose Christianity over a pagan religion, Buddhism or other perhaps more directly applicable religious doctrines? Do you "mix and match" from the Bible along with your own beliefs that you held prior to becoming Christian, or are you more of an "if it's not in the Bible, it ain't true" kind of guy?

I want to learn more about Christianity. At the moment I am not convinced that it leads to a "truer" connection to God than any other religion, or even compared to making up your own God(s). My natural objection is that Christianity is nothing more than a mixture of true and made up stories from old times (the best understanding of the world the thinkers in Israel could manage at the time), some good life advice along with some bad, and in the end something that ended up as a tool to bring people together as a group to be more easily controlled (both for the empire/its leaders and for the good of the people themselves).

I will admit I have never read the Old and New Testament. When I comes to official religious texts I have studied some of the old Nordic scriptures along with Buddhist teachings. I want to know why these teachings are false and why the Christian one is true. Of course I know this cannot be proven with "science", but I am interested in what made you choose it over all the others.

I will answer your questions in a different more logical order.

2. The Bible, Book of Genesis chapters 1-11.

3. The Lord revealed Himself to me, when I started reading His word. In fact He was with me my whole life, I just was oblivious to it. But there was no doubt from that point on.

1. Sin and repentance was the first lesson I got taught after my conversion, when I still was completely on my own. In the end Jesus made all choices for me and I had the option to reject them or follow along. My own ideas regarding liturgy didn't matter nor did my preference for fancy church buildings. It became crystal-clear, where He needed me and it was at a modest place I never knew about before, where I never expected to end up.

When I attended worship as a guest in a more well-funded church of another denomination (where He is present as well), I saw the introduction of another sheep who found Him. (Soul-winning is on an ATH it seems.) I learned that the plan for this guy was a different one than the plan for me. That new believer belongs there, while I belong to my parish.

God has a plan for you as well and you should find out what it is.
06-12-2019 01:34 AM
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Aurini Offline
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Post: #779
RE: The God pill
(06-11-2019 06:24 PM)scorpion Wrote:  
(06-11-2019 11:40 AM)Aurini Wrote:  Given that there's no rational justification for splitting the church, let alone theological, especially considering all the bloodshed which followed, leading up to the current dissolution of society - I think maintaining a Protestant faith requires rejection of Logos. Any honest investigation will lead you away from Protestantism; but that said, I don't find that Protestants are particularly honest. They seem far more concerned with how things are perceived.

This is an extraordinary and shocking claim.

How is it extraordinary? They are heretics. They deny tradition. By denying tradition, you deny the Bible - yet the affirm the Bible. They claim that 2+2=5. I say that they are wrong. And I am a radical?

Quote: You are essentially calling all Protestants anti-Christ.

No, just heretics, ergo prone to supporting the anti-Christ. Watch their behaviour; whom do they support? What do they believe?

Quote:I assume you are unaware that such views are entirely your own pride and lack of spiritual understanding speaking, since the Catholic Church itself condemns that view explicitly:

VATICAN II, UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO Wrote:Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts,(19) which the Apostle strongly condemned.(20) But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church - whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church - do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.

See here: http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_counc...io_en.html

The document which opened the door to heresy - including paedo priests. It wasn't a false document, merely one which gave the wrong impressions - and now we have legal murder of depressed teenagers. Tikum Olam. You quote it with no knowledge of the context - merely a convenient turn of phrase which seems to support your position. I suggest 1500 years of theology before commenting.

Quote:Your personal animus against Protestants (you seem to use the term itself as a slur) is unbecoming, un-Biblical and frankly, un-Catholic. You are not morally or spiritually elevated above a fellow Christian who espouses a Protestant theology. They are literally your brothers in Christ. Your own church says as much, yet you espouse nothing but condescension and contempt for them . You're acting more like a Pharisee than like Christ.

I have no animus against them. I merely wish that they would translate their proclamations of Christ into the real thing - or cease their idiotic intoning of Gods they don't believe in.

There are already enough demons in Hell. I genuinely wish the best for my misguided brethren. But I will not pretend that their house isn't built upon sand.

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(This post was last modified: 06-12-2019 01:54 AM by Aurini.)
06-12-2019 01:52 AM
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Post: #780
RE: The God pill
(06-12-2019 12:29 AM)Tex Wrote:  The only reason she called me a liar here is because I lied by omission in not telling her I was getting baptized yesterday. And she makes it sound like I'm Jason Bourne with my "double life." All because I got baptized. You'd think something else had to be going on behind the scenes but nope.

I have never seen this kind of reaction, out of blue, from any girl I've ever dated for anything I've ever done. The God Pill comes with sacrifices and apparently some will treat you like you you did something horrific. I mean those texts are so outlandish you would honestly think I cheated on her with a guy and gave her AIDS.

The God Pill is MUCH more ostracizing than anything else we've talked about on this forum.

I saw a similar weirded out reaction from a woman I used to date almost two decades ago, when I told her about reading the Bible during an occasional chat. I might tell her about my baptism just to see the madness unfold. Big Grin

I also stopped telling my relatives about my journey, when I did go MGHOW. They weren't really interested in my RP views anyway, so at some point I decided to keep my knowledge to myself. Now when you walk a path on your own for a long time, it inevitably results in a "double life".

It will sort itself out. With some losses I'm sure.
06-12-2019 01:53 AM
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Post: #781
RE: The God pill
(06-12-2019 12:29 AM)Tex Wrote:  Snip

During my conversion, I likewise had a girl I loved grow very angry with me; despite me espousing Catholic standards prior to that. She was very, very angry when she heard Jesus' name.

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06-12-2019 01:57 AM
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Post: #782
RE: The God pill
(06-11-2019 10:11 PM)Roosh Wrote:  
(06-11-2019 09:17 PM)scorpion Wrote:  
(06-11-2019 07:49 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  And as for slurs, growing up Catholic I heard far worse from the mouths of protestants of all persuasions. To us, they were just the church across the street - we never gave them a second thought. But to them we were the favorite target of snide remarks - they had a bit of an inferiority complex and many still do. Only the Mormons regard us with a modicum of respect.

There's this guy you might have heard of, had a thing to say about that...

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. - Matthew 5:38-40

Can we start living like Christians and not casting blame and aspersions at each other, especially not based on the actions of other people? Doctrinal disagreements and/or the boorish behavior of individuals is not cause to impact the fellowship of true Christian brothers.

I agree with you in principle, but since discussing religious matters on the forum is so new, I expect it to take a while until the proper boundaries are drawn up. The chaff will have to grow with the wheat in the meanwhile, but aggressive heretics, blasphemers, or those who confuse unruly self-righteousness for calm doctrinal debate will be dealt with. Hit report on those posts. I do like the idea of not personally attacking fellow Christians. I will strongly consider such a rule.

One idea in the meanwhile is to start threads such as "Orthodox only" or "Protestant only" where members of other denominations can only come into the thread to show support.

You won't be able to square this circle.

Catholics and Orthodox will state things which are True. Protestants will be furious, and demand equality.

I'm sorry, but that's how it goes.

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06-12-2019 02:00 AM
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RE: The God pill
There are three books which, if someone reads them with a genuine desire for Truth, will inevitably lead any Protestant out of the movement. They are:

1. “Early Christian Writings: The Apostolic Fathers” by Staniford (and Louth).

2. “Rock and Sand” by Father Josiah Trenham

3. “Orthodoxy And Heterodoxy” by Father Andrew Stephen Damick

Of course the latter two are coming from an Orthodox perspective, but as a wise man once said, “to be deep in history is to cease being Protestant.”

Any Protestant willing to change his or her mind when exposed to new information, if they read those books, will eventually have to settle on either Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy as the true and original form of Christianity. There is simply no way to understand Christian history and still believe in Protestant doctrine.

That is why the use of the word “ignorant” is not meant to be insulting in this case, but simply to affirm the truth: that oftentimes, evangelicals will share opinions and make arguments that demonstrate a lack of knowledge on these topics.

For example, saying “Mary is the mother of Christ’s human flesh, but not of God” demonstrates a lack of historical knowledge regarding Nestorius and the events surrounding his life. Saying “the Eucharist is just a symbol and not actually His Body and Blood” means the speaker does not know this doctrine was invented by the gnostic Zwingli in the 16th century - and that there isn’t a single example of a Christian writer, theologian, bishop or priest in the ancient world who believed in that view.

There is simply no way around it. You have to do the hard work of studying the Fathers, Councils and Saints if you want to understand Christianity. Some guy’s opinion of what a Bible verse mean holds no weight outside of that context.

And for the record, all of the articles I wrote for Return of Kings were written before my Orthodox baptism. I started this journey as a Protestant, though I was a catechumen by the end of my writing there. If people can just get over the pride of thinking they know better than the world’s most brilliant theologians, eventually they will come to the knowledge of the Truth as well.

Return Of Kings contributor and best-selling author of "On The Mason And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2019 02:25 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
06-12-2019 02:15 AM
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RE: The God pill
(06-12-2019 02:15 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  Any Protestant willing to change his or her mind when exposed to new information, if they read those books, will eventually have to settle on either Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy as the true and original form of Christianity. There is simply no way to understand Christian history and still believe in Protestant doctrine.

I got introduced to the reformation in a pretty Anti-Christian way: Martin Luther, I got told in a secular school, was essentially opposing the evil money-grabbing church. His key teachings on Christian doctrine were actually left out. I never heard of those. As a heathen the RCC was "the church" for me and the Pope the leader of all Christians.

After my conversion I started practicing my faith alone on my own, having only the Bible while asking for help from above (since I had nobody else to turn to). Later I found out that my practice was fully in line with reformed theology, when I finally did my research, catching up with sources on history of Christianity. It came to me naturally, nobody forced it on me.

So it's completely logical, that while obeying the Lord's will, I ended up getting baptized and joining a Protestant parish this year. Jesus Himself confirmed multiple times, that I'm walking the right path. The last time (two weeks ago) He spoke in the most literal way possible through a random stranger passing by, answering a prayer I did a few minutes before that. This settled all doubts.
06-12-2019 04:13 AM
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Post: #785
RE: The God pill
(06-12-2019 02:15 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  There are three books which, if someone reads them with a genuine desire for Truth, will inevitably lead any Protestant out of the movement. They are:

1. “Early Christian Writings: The Apostolic Fathers” by Staniford (and Louth).

2. “Rock and Sand” by Father Josiah Trenham

3. “Orthodoxy And Heterodoxy” by Father Andrew Stephen Damick

Of course the latter two are coming from an Orthodox perspective, but as a wise man once said, “to be deep in history is to cease being Protestant.”

Any Protestant willing to change his or her mind when exposed to new information, if they read those books, will eventually have to settle on either Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy as the true and original form of Christianity. There is simply no way to understand Christian history and still believe in Protestant doctrine.

That is why the use of the word “ignorant” is not meant to be insulting in this case, but simply to affirm the truth: that oftentimes, evangelicals will share opinions and make arguments that demonstrate a lack of knowledge on these topics.

For example, saying “Mary is the mother of Christ’s human flesh, but not of God” demonstrates a lack of historical knowledge regarding Nestorius and the events surrounding his life. Saying “the Eucharist is just a symbol and not actually His Body and Blood” means the speaker does not know this doctrine was invented by the gnostic Zwingli in the 16th century - and that there isn’t a single example of a Christian writer, theologian, bishop or priest in the ancient world who believed in that view.

There is simply no way around it. You have to do the hard work of studying the Fathers, Councils and Saints if you want to understand Christianity. Some guy’s opinion of what a Bible verse mean holds no weight outside of that context.

And for the record, all of the articles I wrote for Return of Kings were written before my Orthodox baptism. I started this journey as a Protestant, though I was a catechumen by the end of my writing there. If people can just get over the pride of thinking they know better than the world’s most brilliant theologians, eventually they will come to the knowledge of the Truth as well.

Ok, this is where I run into questions about the Catholic and Orthodox Church as its presented by Aurini and Witcoff. These are questions from someone who is a protestant and has been exposed to catholics only to the extent of church funerals, catholic church picnics, polka mass and Canadian Catholic school students.

Witcoff - I feel like there is a recurring message regarding the ignorance of protestants regarding hundreds of years of church history, doctrines, decrees etc. If a scholarly ignorance is what curses a protestant (it certainly isn't a lack of faith), then what happens to an ignorant catholic or Orthodox(ist)? I know Catholics that are neither theologans or scholars, what is their fate? What about a Catholic that can never learn church history because they might be mentally disabled? To me it sounds like the same ivory tower argument I hear from academics...'oh you can't possibly have an opinion on law or medicine until you get your doctorate from Yale, until then you are an ignorant lay person'. That is how it sounds to me, but I'm sure I am wrong so help me out.

Aurini - As a Catholic, what does the Pope represent? As an outsider I know the term "papal infallibility" which means to me "If the pope says it, its as true as adding another page to the bible". Which also means if the pope says "farts smell like roses" then Catholics had better believe it or they are heretics. What am I missing, and how to Catholics have the right to disagree with the Pope and still be 'true catholics' instead of Protestant heretics, who also disagree with the Pope?

Please no 33rd degree Mason/Mysticism type responses like "oh if you have to ascend to a certain level of expertise to even understand that" or "oh I can't explain that, I can't write out 2000 years of history in a paragraph" If a thief dying on a cross can understand it in a few hours, it shouldn't take me stacks and stacks of books to get it either.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
06-12-2019 04:26 AM
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Post: #786
RE: The God pill
(06-11-2019 05:22 PM)Pinkman Wrote:  I was raised Atheist but I've gotten interested in the spiritual path lately. A few genuine questions for the people who have turned to Christ from Atheism or Agnosticism:

1. Do you see your specific brand (Catholicism/Protestantism/Baptism etc) as the true faith/path or are you following it more for cultural/social reasons? And what made you choose that specific brand of Christianity? Did you read through what each one was about or did you choose it because it was the first brand you were exposed to?

2. What did you read that sold you on the Christian faith and made you into a believer? What specific books (or parts of them) convinced you?

3. Have you been convinced logically or is it more of a "feel"? If the latter, how come you chose Christianity over a pagan religion, Buddhism or other perhaps more directly applicable religious doctrines? Do you "mix and match" from the Bible along with your own beliefs that you held prior to becoming Christian, or are you more of an "if it's not in the Bible, it ain't true" kind of guy?

I want to learn more about Christianity. At the moment I am not convinced that it leads to a "truer" connection to God than any other religion, or even compared to making up your own God(s). My natural objection is that Christianity is nothing more than a mixture of true and made up stories from old times (the best understanding of the world the thinkers in Israel could manage at the time), some good life advice along with some bad, and in the end something that ended up as a tool to bring people together as a group to be more easily controlled (both for the empire/its leaders and for the good of the people themselves).

I will admit I have never read the Old and New Testament. When I comes to official religious texts I have studied some of the old Nordic scriptures along with Buddhist teachings. I want to know why these teachings are false and why the Christian one is true. Of course I know this cannot be proven with "science", but I am interested in what made you choose it over all the others.

I was baptized as a Catholic in France by tradition but didn't get any religious education after that. And France being an atheist country means that you don't get to know your own religion and history.
So that means that I was raised as an atheist. But even when I had no knowledge of God, I still believed that there was a God out there. I never understood people who said that we live, we die and there's nothing before and after that, no meaning, no nothing.

So to answer your questions:

1. As a French man I was naturally attracted to Catholicism. I'm from the western part of France, most of my ancestors are from Brittany and Vendée, deeply Catholic parts of France, fighting for God against the satanical French Revolution.
So I guess it was deeply rooted in me, cause I never thought one second of being a buddhist or an evangelical Christian as it is the trend in France when you are looking for some kind of spirituality.

2. What "sold" me definitely in the Catholic Church is the people that I have met.
First it was a Malaysian Indian girl that grew up poor in a Hindou and Catholic family. Her father was Hindou and her mother is Catholic. She converted to Catholicism after her father died, even though she was raised Hindou by him. What struck me about her was how at peace she seemed even though she grew up poor and her father died when she was a teenager. She had every reason to be pissed at God but she was not. Like I told you a sense of peace was coming out of her. This really struck me as I was chasing earthly pleasures at that time but was starting to feel it was meaningless and was looking for more.
The second person that "sold" me about Catholicism is my own mother. When I came back from working a year in Australia and then traveling 3 months in Southeast Asia where I met the Catholic Malaysian girl, I saw my mother was going to Church. She was sick, felt pain all the time, went to see many doctors, tried alternative medicines, but nobody could tell her what she had and nobody could relieve her pain. Finally she went to Church and it was the only thing that worked on her. She felt better and kept going. This is coming from a person that was angry against God due to child abuse and was against us getting religious education. My father insisted that we get at least baptized. So I saw firsthand how she changed for the better after going to Church.
Then when I started going to Church, I have met people that my mother knew and some told me that they prayed for me. It was people that I never met, just my mother telling them about my sisters and me. I was really surprised. How can these people have good intentions towards me without even knowing me? My social life had never been that great, I always felt different, like an outcast from an early age and felt rejected often. So having people that I don't know tell me that they prayed for me was unbelievable. That's when I knew that I was at the right place.

3. I guess my answer to question number 2 also answers a bit the question number 3. I will just add that I am a logical and rational person but I also do things by pure instinct. I have always followed my journey, be it spiritually and in life, by what "feels" right as you say. A good example of it is that I have read the New Testament quite late, only last year, while I started going to Church in 2013. Reading the Bible was putting words on what I have experienced by myself on my spiritual journey. I had a lot of moments where I was thinking "oh now it makes sense" while reading the Bible.

Anyway I hope that what you read here will inspire and help you on your own spiritual journey.
God bless!
06-12-2019 04:42 AM
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RE: The God pill
@DrHoward,

Someone once asked St. Theophan the Recluse whether the heterodox (non-Orthodox) could be saved. He replied,

“Why do you worry about them? They have a Savior who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins. I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever.”

We are constantly taught not to worry about or judge the salvation of others - or even, frankly, to judge our own. We are taught to see ourselves as the greatest of all sinners and live in repentance to the greatest degree we can, trusting in a just and merciful God to do with us and everyone else what He thinks is best.

I very strongly believe that God shares grace with anyone who genuinely seeks and strives for it, and that the closer you get to the full Truth, the higher degree of that wisdom you receive. For example, if a man living in fornication picks up the Bible and decides to stop fornicating, there will be a corresponding spiritual reward from God for doing so. Every step towards virtue is rewarded.

But the fullness of that reward and spiritual growth exists only in the institutional Church, since the humility and obedience it takes to accept sacraments (and to confess your sins before receiving communion each time) goes a really long way towards renewing our hearts, minds, and souls. There is more to it, but this is a simple example.

It would be absurd to think God would judge someone negatively for what they can’t possibly know - for example, someone with too low an IQ to understand theology or who lives somewhere with no Church when they decide to seek Him.

We believe the energies of the Holy Spirit sustain all of creation, so there is truly nowhere that God is not present in some degree. But that still doesn’t negate the fullness of the Mystery that is only revealed in the Church.

Hope that makes sense.

Return Of Kings contributor and best-selling author of "On The Mason And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2019 05:11 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
06-12-2019 05:09 AM
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Post: #788
RE: The God pill
(06-12-2019 05:09 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  @DrHoward,

Someone once asked St. Theophan the Recluse whether the heterodox (non-Orthodox) could be saved. He replied,

“Why do you worry about them? They have a Savior who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins. I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever.”

We are constantly taught not to worry about or judge the salvation of others - or even, frankly, to judge our own. We are taught to see ourselves as the greatest of all sinners and live in repentance to the greatest degree we can, trusting in a just and merciful God to do with us and everyone else what He thinks is best.

I very strongly believe that God shares grace with anyone who genuinely seeks and strives for it, and that the closer you get to the full Truth, the higher degree of that wisdom you receive. For example, if a man living in fornication picks up the Bible and decides to stop fornicating, there will be a corresponding spiritual reward from God for doing so. Every step towards virtue is rewarded.

But the fullness of that reward and spiritual growth exists only in the institutional Church, since the humility and obedience it takes to accept sacraments (and to confess your sins before receiving communion each time) goes a really long way towards renewing our hearts, minds, and souls. There is more to it, but this is a simple example.

It would be absurd to think God would judge someone negatively for what they can’t possibly know - for example, someone with too low an IQ to understand theology or who lives somewhere with no Church when they decide to seek Him.

We believe the energies of the Holy Spirit sustain all of creation, so there is truly nowhere that God is not present in some degree. But that still doesn’t negate the fullness of the Mystery that is only revealed in the Church.

Hope that makes sense.

That does, I appreciate the reply.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
06-12-2019 05:37 AM
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fenetre Offline
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RE: The God pill
DELETE

What do I know about anything.
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06-12-2019 10:10 AM
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RE: The God pill
(06-11-2019 05:26 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  
(06-11-2019 10:14 AM)General Mayhem Wrote:  ...

I will admit, those of us who grew up in the church have a much easier time coming back to it than others starting from nothing.

Looking forward to your thoughts on the church nerds. What I didn't mention in my post earlier is that I think it is mostly due to poor leadership and a lack of solid role models.

Looking back, the more prominent men in church didn't inspire anyone to follow their lead. They all seemed nerdy, out of shape, poorly dressed, etc. Kids will naturally gravitate away from that when presented with so many charismatic alternatives outside the church.

Ok, following up on the 'church nerds' post. First, apologies Mayhem as I attributed the original idea to WorldWide Traveller.

I did not grow up in Church, but worked for a Christian Company for a good number of years. There were a handful of us there that were tattoos and punk rock atheists, we must have either been so good at our jobs that they couldn't let us go, or kept us around hoping for a conversion. The company hired about 200 college students for seasonal work each year almost all from private Christian colleges. This is where I first observed the phenomena of the 'church nerd'

These were the guys that would strut around with big 'I love Jesus' t-shirts, while being loud an obnoxious, sort of like this "Hey everybody, look at how much of a Christian I am". Yet, when the atheists would break out the beer kegs, who would get ballistic drunk and turn into total embarrassments and 'try hard heathens'. These same guys. This was of course, a regular game that the secular minority of the employees would play...corrupt the Christians. The most overt ones often turned out to be the easiest to break.

But it was only for the guys that this held true, if there was a girl there that talked about the bible or wore an I love Jesus shirt, she was legitimate and would stay well away from the booze and the bad boys. It was the christian girls that dressed a bit slutty and you couldn't tell if they were secular or not that fell of the wagon easily. Insecure Christian girls and insecure secular girls are the same that way, that they are slutty chameleons with mutable standards and morals.

So, that is my theory on where the 'Christian Nerd' comes from. Insecurity, or lack of a self identity. They can really be blown with the wind and aren't anchored in themselves and so over compensate on the exterior. They need role models which is where the youth pastor comes in. Unfortunately, I think a lot of these over compensating 'Christian Nerds' become Youth Pastors themselves.

Example, we had 2 'youth leaders' on the work crew one summer. They would take over the dining hall for worship nights and play songs loudly while we atheists sat outside brooding and smoking cigarettes. I was in quality control at this point, and audited these guys on the job. Whiny, sketchy work quality, just not great employees. The final straw was that these secular girls would bring these stacks of "Cosmo" type magazines to read on the bus to work each day. These two 'youth leaders' decide one day (of course when the girls aren't there) that these magazines are 'sinful' and rip them to shreds and scatter the pieces all over the bus. At the end of the week, the shop manager comes on the bus and sees the paper everywhere and freaks out, everyone gets in a lineup and he asks "who's crap is this all over the bus" the Youth Leaders immediately say "Its Girl A and B's!!!" Girl A and B protested, that it was their magazines but the youth pastors ripped them up, but the shop foreman didn't care and made the girls clean the whole bus. I was disgusted, that these guys were 'Christians' and this is how they acted and that became my impression of youth churches, leaders and pastors for a long time.

It continued year after year, that we'd get a few of these "Church Nerd" types (no more youth leaders) and I got the impression that because they were the loudest, that they must be the 'best the church had to offer' and was convinced that Christians were just losers.

I was very wrong when I moved to the south and started going to Churches that had it figured out (there are many that don't). One church down the road from me has a young Airforce Veteran for the youth Minister. He runs the ROTC at the high school and is an excellent role model. The other church down the street has an Afghanistan purple heart Marine Veteran that was shot in the chest by a sniper while on tour. These guys are bad ass mother f'ers. They are leaders. The teenagers they mentor follow them like a cult and there are no 'chuch nerds' among them. One left the church and the teenage girls acted like Justin Bieber had committed suicide.

So, that is my assessment, 'Church Nerds' are real and just insecure guys that are overcompensating on the outside. No different than Autists who have come to this forum or other PUA sites and then "Neg" every girl they meet and embarrass anyone who has ever used the term Game. They need leaders, and those leaders should not be other 'Church Nerds' that have just grown into adult hood and are still just as fragile.

Thanks for sharing.

I'm glad you also included some examples of solid role models having a positive influence in your local churches. The church, regardless of denomination, would be more effective at guiding young people towards the truth if we had more men willing to step in to displace the nerds.

The issue isn't necessarily that there are no men capable of doing this. What I have seen is the lack of a will do what is necessary, similar to the enjoy the decline types. This is something I see in myself even. When I first started coming back to religion my stance was that I would study the readings privately. Now I am noticing that I am lacking something by not attending church regularly.

I've actually talked with one of my close friends about the church nerd issue. We both followed a similar trajectory in life, military, pursuing casual sex, and now building families. Still, neither of us wants to do anything in the church beyond show up for mass and go home.

I think you are correct with your theory of where the church nerd comes from. Unfortunately, it also seems like it is is a self-perpetuating cycle where these people find their way into roles as youth pastors. Some youths can obviously sense the insecure nature of these types and it drives them away, which we have both personally experienced.

Your point about the issue of insecurity in church nerds brings up something else that I have thought of often while coming back to god.

My experiences with women and with life in general, as degenerate as it all was, helped me become secure with myself. Those experiences have given me context to come back and be open to god. For better or worse, a man has a leg up on the church nerds if he has tested his own destructive power. I am still working through exactly what that means to me.
06-12-2019 10:15 AM
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Roosh Offline
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RE: The God pill
(06-12-2019 02:15 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  There are three books which, if someone reads them with a genuine desire for Truth, will inevitably lead any Protestant out of the movement. They are:

1. “Early Christian Writings: The Apostolic Fathers” by Staniford (and Louth).

2. “Rock and Sand” by Father Josiah Trenham

I just started watching an interview with Father Trenham on Monday. He was a Protestant minister in California who, after seeing that church become more secular, converted to Orthodoxy. I am very impressed with his intellect.

Here is a great interview with him that highlights the differences between Protestantism and Orthodoxy:


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06-12-2019 10:24 AM
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RE: The God pill
(06-11-2019 09:17 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. - Matthew 5:38-40

That is a favorite of mine. I hope one day I can instinctively embody that way of life. Maybe not in this lifetime.
06-12-2019 12:42 PM
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RE: The God pill
Regarding the "church nerd" posts and the lack of masculine leadership in church positions, Art of Manliness did a series on how Christianity in the West, particularly Protestantism was feminized. Yes I realize there's people on here who would consider the guy behind the website to be a church nerd but as someone who has read through the series and even bought the book that the articles were turned into, I think it brings up a lot of good points to digest on.

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/...roduction/

Quote:Why does a religion started by a carpenter and his twelve male comrades attract more women than men? Christian churches are led predominately by men (95% of Protestant senior pastors and 100% of Catholic clergy are male) and are criticized by feminists as bastions of male patriarchy, power, and privilege; so why is the laity paradoxically composed largely of women?

Was there ever a time when the gender ratio of Christianity was equal? And if so, why did a disparity between male and female adherents develop?

Among men who are committed Christians, why do they seem to be more effeminate, on average, than the male population as a whole? As Murrow puts it, what is it about “Christianity, especially Western Christianity, that drives a wedge between the church and men who want to be masculine”?

These are fascinating questions, certainly for Christians who have noticed this phenomenon themselves and for pastors of churches who are concerned about the health of their congregations (as we’ll see, there’s a strong connection between the number of men in a church’s pews and its vitality).
06-12-2019 12:49 PM
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RE: The God pill
(06-12-2019 12:49 PM)Wutang Wrote:  Regarding the "church nerd" posts and the lack of masculine leadership in church positions, Art of Manliness did a series on how Christianity in the West, particularly Protestantism was feminized. Yes I realize there's people on here who would consider the guy behind the website to be a church nerd but as someone who has read through the series and even bought the book that the articles were turned into, I think it brings up a lot of good points to digest on.

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/...roduction/

Quote:Why does a religion started by a carpenter and his twelve male comrades attract more women than men? Christian churches are led predominately by men (95% of Protestant senior pastors and 100% of Catholic clergy are male) and are criticized by feminists as bastions of male patriarchy, power, and privilege; so why is the laity paradoxically composed largely of women?

Was there ever a time when the gender ratio of Christianity was equal? And if so, why did a disparity between male and female adherents develop?

Among men who are committed Christians, why do they seem to be more effeminate, on average, than the male population as a whole? As Murrow puts it, what is it about “Christianity, especially Western Christianity, that drives a wedge between the church and men who want to be masculine”?

These are fascinating questions, certainly for Christians who have noticed this phenomenon themselves and for pastors of churches who are concerned about the health of their congregations (as we’ll see, there’s a strong connection between the number of men in a church’s pews and its vitality).

Whats the name of the book? I have seen that phenomenon but don't understand it. My Grandmother's church, in its last dying days is just a handful of old women, the same thing with the church that I go to. Our congregation uses a small historic church, that is shared with the original Presbyterian congregation. They had shrunk down to a membership of officially 6 old ladies and we moved in because we needed more space and as a way to keep the building in repair and use.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
06-12-2019 04:23 PM
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RE: The God pill
(06-12-2019 04:23 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  I have seen that phenomenon but don't understand it. My Grandmother's church, in its last dying days is just a handful of old women, the same thing with the church that I go to. Our congregation uses a small historic church, that is shared with the original Presbyterian congregation. They had shrunk down to a membership of officially 6 old ladies and we moved in because we needed more space and as a way to keep the building in repair and use.

I can explain it at the church I grew up with.

People became complacent and set in their ways.

They kept power of the church and didn't really make room for younger people except as kind of obedient mascots.

Kids get fed up and leave as they get older and start their own families.

Men die off sooner.

Bingo.

Old lady church.

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06-12-2019 04:28 PM
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RE: The God pill
I like this thread. You can see the hand of humanity at work here and its users oblivious at its working.
06-12-2019 04:42 PM
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RE: The God pill
(06-11-2019 09:17 PM)scorpion Wrote:  
(06-11-2019 07:49 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  And as for slurs, growing up Catholic I heard far worse from the mouths of protestants of all persuasions. To us, they were just the church across the street - we never gave them a second thought. But to them we were the favorite target of snide remarks - they had a bit of an inferiority complex and many still do. Only the Mormons regard us with a modicum of respect.
There's this guy you might have heard of, had a thing to say about that...

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. - Matthew 5:38-40

Can we start living like Christians and not casting blame and aspersions at each other, especially not based on the actions of other people? Doctrinal disagreements and/or the boorish behavior of individuals is not cause to impact the fellowship of true Christian brothers.

Recalling old memories of how the local protestant community regarded my Catholic church shouldn't be read as casting aspersions and blame nor did it ever involve tormenting myself over revenge versus turning the other cheek.

It's just an observation - one of several coming back to me with renewed context. This is happening a lot the more I listen to EMJ discuss the history of how both denominations were manipulated for decades by the oligarchs.

If this is a bit sensitive, just wait - we may yet have to grapple with posts by future interpretations from... fellow Christians... such as the Westboro Baptist Church. It could get interesting.

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06-12-2019 05:19 PM
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RE: The God pill
(06-12-2019 02:15 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  There are three books which, if someone reads them with a genuine desire for Truth, will inevitably lead any Protestant out of the movement. They are:

1. “Early Christian Writings: The Apostolic Fathers” by Staniford (and Louth).

2. “Rock and Sand” by Father Josiah Trenham

3. “Orthodoxy And Heterodoxy” by Father Andrew Stephen Damick

I watched the interview for Father Josiah Trenham and didn't hear anything new. He takes most of his viewpoints on "faith alone" from a few verses in James. People have gone over this verse over and over but here is a good explanation of it.

Father T doesn't make any new arguments but he does love Jordan Peterson and praises his "intelligence and the importance of his work" about him for 20 minutes in this interview.



(This post was last modified: 06-12-2019 05:54 PM by PainPositive.)
06-12-2019 05:53 PM
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RE: The God pill
(06-12-2019 05:53 PM)PainPositive Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 02:15 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  There are three books which, if someone reads them with a genuine desire for Truth, will inevitably lead any Protestant out of the movement. They are:

1. “Early Christian Writings: The Apostolic Fathers” by Staniford (and Louth).

2. “Rock and Sand” by Father Josiah Trenham

3. “Orthodoxy And Heterodoxy” by Father Andrew Stephen Damick

I watched the interview for Father Josiah Trenham and didn't hear anything new. He takes most of his viewpoints on "faith alone" from a few verses in James. People have gone over this verse over and over but here is a good explanation of it.

Father T doesn't make any new arguments but he does love Jordan Peterson and praises his "intelligence and the importance of his work" about him for 20 minutes in this interview.




Father Josiah's admiration for Jordan Peterson is the one and only critique I have of him. Besides that, he is a great role model for any Christian man and my meeting with him last year is what convinced me to become a catechumen.

Return Of Kings contributor and best-selling author of "On The Mason And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2019 06:19 PM by MichaelWitcoff.)
06-12-2019 06:18 PM
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Roosh Offline
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RE: The God pill
(06-12-2019 05:53 PM)PainPositive Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 02:15 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  There are three books which, if someone reads them with a genuine desire for Truth, will inevitably lead any Protestant out of the movement. They are:

1. “Early Christian Writings: The Apostolic Fathers” by Staniford (and Louth).

2. “Rock and Sand” by Father Josiah Trenham

3. “Orthodoxy And Heterodoxy” by Father Andrew Stephen Damick

I watched the interview for Father Josiah Trenham and didn't hear anything new. He takes most of his viewpoints on "faith alone" from a few verses in James. People have gone over this verse over and over but here is a good explanation of it.

Father T doesn't make any new arguments but he does love Jordan Peterson and praises his "intelligence and the importance of his work" about him for 20 minutes in this interview.




You're starting to cross the line with your defensiveness of Protestant doctrine. It has now spread to two threads. Feel free to start a "Protestants only" thread if you don't want to see any critiques of your beliefs. Religious debating is a gentlemanly skill that should come from a place of love instead of anger.

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06-12-2019 06:50 PM
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