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The God pill
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Kid Twist Offline
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Post: #851
RE: The God pill
(06-14-2019 02:03 PM)Roosh Wrote:  
(06-14-2019 12:45 PM)PainPositive Wrote:  I need a question answered by my Orthodox bros here (not a gotcha question, honestly)

I'm still trying to find a way I can worship in an Orthodox Church (if I can get through my hang ups with it) so my question is can I believe "Prima scriptura" and still be Orthodox?

Also what if I only have a Orthodox (Serbian) Church in my city and don't want to convert. Can I still attend the church regularly there or will they eventually ask me to leave for being a heretic?

(Obviously I'm not going there to spout my beliefs in someone else's Church or argue with anyone. I just want to go to be closer to God.)

As for as I know, you don't have to make fealty with specific doctrines before baptism, but I don't think a priest would baptize you if you had a belief that went against Orthodoxy in favor of another belief. You don't get to "pick and choose" what to accept. I'd ask a priest on this.

As for attending the liturgy, you are free to attend, but you just can't participate in sacraments, particularly Holy Communion.

This also explains what Beast above doesn't understand about the eastern churches and practice, which is local and particular to the person with his spiritual father. I tried to point this out, that applying some legalistic framework to what the practice of the eastern christians is, is just not the right way of looking at it, for us or them.

Pain, as Roosh says, go and see. Find out about it. Think about it. Pray about it. If you are earnest, you will find what you seek.

Get your passport ready!
06-14-2019 09:42 PM
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CharlsMile Offline
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Post: #852
RE: The God pill
Roosh,

I would like to compare the Holy fear of God with the lack of ego. Because ego is not necessary when you are in God's hands. Spirituality makes us humble and compassionate.
06-14-2019 10:04 PM
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Post: #853
RE: The God pill
The science of prayer (Summarised from Sufi writer Ahmed Hulisi):

As such, religion recommends the compulsory
practices known as ‘prayer’ so that we reach the reality of our
essence and manifest this infinite potential within our essence
through our brain and upload it to our spirit.


The energy waves generated by one’s brain through the
prayers for protection form a magnetic shield around the person! Prayer activates the protective angelic forces within
one’s essence. Man needs protection! We must understand this!


If you fail to perform these practices, the necessary energy
combinations of expansion will not become activated in your
brain and thus, the light of knowledge or energy yielded by them will not be uploaded to your spirit.
Consequently, your spirit body
will be deprived of the forces you need.
You will feel the agony and pain of this deprivation. You will have thrown yourself into the hellfire with your own hands.

God need never punish His servants. Everybody will live the
consequences of their own doings.
We must comprehend this reality well.

The most powerful thing you can do is detach from needing something
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2019 01:32 AM by Rorogue.)
06-15-2019 01:31 AM
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PainPositive Offline
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Post: #854
RE: The God pill
(06-15-2019 01:31 AM)Rorogue Wrote:  The science of prayer (Summarised from Sufi writer Ahmed Hulisi):
[snip}

The energy waves generated by one’s brain through the
prayers for protection form a magnetic shield around the person!
Prayer activates the protective angelic forces within
one’s essence. Man needs protection! We must understand this!

If you fail to perform these practices, the necessary energy
combinations of expansion will not become activated in your
brain
and thus, the light of knowledge or energy yielded by them will not be uploaded to your spirit.

Consequently, your spirit body
will be deprived of the forces you need.
You will feel the agony and pain of this deprivation. You will have thrown yourself into the hellfire with your own hands.
[snip]

Dude, I'm sorry but this reads like a yoga teacher wrote it. I bet it has ties to Buddhism, or Hinduism (Who worship Pagan Gods). I see this is a teaching from a Muslim person (Ahmed Hulisi) but these breathing practices are found in many religions.

Which reminds me of another subject I want to ask Orthodox guys here. Bear with me because this sounds crazy to me, but I'm willing to change my mind. I know you guys can get pretty sensitive about your Traditions, so I won't go too far. (In the same way I'm sensitive about people who mess with the Bible, so I understand how you feel.)

I'm trying to learn about Orthodoxy so I can possibly become Orthodox. If you attack me or say silly things it's going to do nothing to help either of us. (Honestly, I'm not going to pretend I'm almost there, I have a lot of researching, talking, and learning to do. I have "Ancient Fathers") (Maybe I'm misquoting the title but someone recommended it. I think it was @Mike W. and it's on my kindle now waiting to be read.)

I couldn't find much about it. So maybe you can give me some good sources to study this practice of breathing and praying with meditation"repetitious" prayer. It's not anywhere in the Bible (as far as I know) but somehow appeared in several christian teachings including Orthodoxy.

Here is the wiki entry (snips) on Omphaloskepsis and the Hesychast controversy.

Quote:Omphaloskepsis or navel-gazing is contemplation of one's navel as an aid to meditation.


Quote:"Actual use of the practice as an aid to contemplation of basic principles of the cosmos and human nature is found in the practice of yoga of Hinduism and sometimes in the Eastern Orthodox Church.[2] In yoga, the navel is the site of the manipura (also called nabhi) chakra, which yogis consider "a powerful chakra of the body".[3][4] The monks of Mount Athos, Greece, were described as Omphalopsychians by J.G. Minningen, writing in the 1830s, who says they "...pretended or fancied that they experienced celestial joys when gazing on their umbilical region, in converse with the Deity".[5]

However, phrases such as "contemplating one's navel" or "navel-gazing" are frequently used, usually in jocular fashion, to refer to self-absorbed pursuits.[6]"

Quote:About the year 1337, Hesychasm attracted the attention of a learned member of the Orthodox Church, Barlaam, a Calabrian monk who had come to Constantinople some seven years earlier. Reacting to criticisms of his theological writings that Gregory Palamas, an Athonite monk and exponent of hesychasm, had courteously communicated to him, Barlaam encountered Hesychasts and heard descriptions of their practices. Trained in Western Scholastic theology, Barlaam was scandalized by the descriptions that he heard and wrote several treatises ridiculing the practices. Barlaam took exception to, as heretical and blasphemous, the doctrine entertained by the Hesychasts as to the nature of the uncreated light, identical to that light which had been manifested to Jesus' disciples at the Transfiguration on Mount Tabor, the experience of which was said to be the goal of Hesychast practice. His informants said that this light was not of the divine essence but was contemplated as another hypostasis. Barlaam held this concept to be polytheistic, inasmuch as it postulated two eternal beings, a visible (immanent) and an invisible (transcendent) God.

Quote:Chronology of the controversy
As an Athonite monk, Palamas had learned to practice Hesychasm. Although he had written about Hesychasm, it was not until Barlaam attacked it and Palamas as its chief proponent, that Palamas was driven to defend it in a full exposition which became a central component of Eastern Orthodox theology. The debate between the Palamites and Barlaamites continued for over a decade and resulted in a series of synods which culminated finally in 1351 when the Palamite doctrine was canonized as Eastern Orthodox dogma.

So without snipping the whole thing there were a bunch of debates about it. They argued about it for at least a decade.

Quote:Impact of the controversy on the Byzantine Empire
According to Meyendorff, some of the group known as the "Byzantine humanists" saw the victory of the Hesychasts as "a tragedy of major proportions." At a crucial point in the Empire's history, the leadership of the Church had passed into the hands of religious zealots.[46]

Quote:Modern acceptance of the doctrine
According to Aristeides Papadakis, "all (modern) Orthodox scholars who have written on Palamas — Lossky, Krivosheine, Papamichael, Meyendorff, Christou — assume his voice to be a legitimate expression of Orthodox tradition."[47]

So, what I can gather we're supposed to look inward and combine the soul and body in prayer to calm the body and know God better or am I off the mark?

There is very little information about this online. (I can't separate good sources from bad because I don't know Orthodox websites or teachers.) On youtube there is almost nothing. This is the only explanation I got that was close to what I was looking for. He says here our body is not bad (despite the many verses on the war between flesh and spirit) and he doesn't reference the Bible except to say that you cannot have out of body experiences.





You guys know I often refer to the Bible as my primary source of truth so here's the verse I found.

Quote:For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Galatians 5:17

Can any of you guys explain the Hesychast practice a little more with some resources?
PP
06-15-2019 06:22 AM
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Roosh Offline
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Post: #855
RE: The God pill
My opinion is that Hesychast prayer applies more to monks who "pray ceaselessly." From what I understand, it's a technique that is optional. I have read a bit about it, but it is not typical of a layman Orthodox to know what it is. It's more for priests, monks, theologians, etc, but even in those cases, I've watched many documentaries and haven't heard monks speak of it. Could just be a niche practice.

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06-15-2019 11:50 AM
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Post: #856
RE: The God pill
I haven't heard of anyone at the Orthodox laymen level engaging in hesychast prayer. That's something reserved for monastics and I doubt that many make it a regular practice.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2019 12:25 PM by Nacho.)
06-15-2019 12:24 PM
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General Mayhem Offline
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Post: #857
RE: The God pill
Attended a "marriage retreat" yesterday as part of the requirement for my upcoming marriage in the catholic church. Very interesting mix of couples in attendance. The most surprising thing to us was how many couples chose to skip the confession that was offered before the concluding mass.
06-16-2019 06:11 PM
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TripleG Offline
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Post: #858
RE: The God pill
(06-16-2019 06:11 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  Attended a "marriage retreat" yesterday as part of the requirement for my upcoming marriage in the catholic church. Very interesting mix of couples in attendance. The most surprising thing to us was how many couples chose to skip the confession that was offered before the concluding mass.

Interesting...question is then just how religious are these couples and are they really practicing the key tenants of Christian faith. For example you are not allowed to have sex before marriage, and I'd be surprised if none of these engaged couples were doing it. I'm sure a few are having relations outside of marriage, I'm just surpsied how they allow this to slide and are not affected by guilt. I know i'd be really sad if I were to be married in the catholic church in front of a priest while being afflicted by grave sin
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2019 07:00 PM by TripleG.)
06-16-2019 07:00 PM
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Vladimir Poontang Offline
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Post: #859
RE: The God pill
How are you supposed to enjoy things and people in life without becoming attached / idolizing them? Doesn't enjoying them mean that they touch something in you and fulfill you in some way? How are you supposed to have a "take it or leave it" attitude to things in life if those things fulfill you? If a thing has meaning, surely it's a manifestation of something inside of you so how can you let go of it? If you don't have an attachment to something, on what basis do you enjoy it? Wouldn't your enjoyment be superficial and lacking in depth and meaning? Doesn't enjoying it involve not wanting to lose it or be without it? Isn't love / enjoyment based on need, and therefore fear of loss? Why do we have a sense of fulfillment / ability to be fulfilled in the first place?

In other words how do you love God? (the above questions are raised in my mind when I ask this one).

That's not how we do things in Russia, comrade.

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(This post was last modified: 06-16-2019 07:48 PM by Vladimir Poontang.)
06-16-2019 07:46 PM
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Enhanced Eddie Offline
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Post: #860
RE: The God pill
(06-16-2019 07:46 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  How are you supposed to enjoy things and people in life without becoming attached / idolizing them? Doesn't enjoying them mean that they touch something in you and fulfill you in some way? How are you supposed to have a "take it or leave it" attitude to things in life if those things fulfill you? If a thing has meaning, surely it's a manifestation of something inside of you so how can you let go of it? If you don't have an attachment to something, on what basis do you enjoy it? Wouldn't your enjoyment be superficial and lacking in depth and meaning? Doesn't enjoying it involve not wanting to lose it or be without it? Isn't love / enjoyment based on need, and therefore fear of loss? Why do we have a sense of fulfillment / ability to be fulfilled in the first place?

The distinction here is taught in buddhism as well... and it's craving (Taṇhā).

It's the difference between enjoying a night out drinking, vs. being an alcoholic.

If not having it makes you miserable, you are dealing with attachment.

OTOH, if you can enjoy it but also be happy without it, you are free of craving.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2019 08:16 PM by Enhanced Eddie.)
06-16-2019 08:15 PM
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Post: #861
RE: The God pill
(06-16-2019 07:00 PM)TripleG Wrote:  
(06-16-2019 06:11 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  Attended a "marriage retreat" yesterday as part of the requirement for my upcoming marriage in the catholic church. Very interesting mix of couples in attendance. The most surprising thing to us was how many couples chose to skip the confession that was offered before the concluding mass.

Interesting...question is then just how religious are these couples and are they really practicing the key tenants of Christian faith. For example you are not allowed to have sex before marriage, and I'd be surprised if none of these engaged couples were doing it. I'm sure a few are having relations outside of marriage, I'm just surpsied how they allow this to slide and are not affected by guilt. I know i'd be really sad if I were to be married in the catholic church in front of a priest while being afflicted by grave sin

If you take a sampling of people who attend a church, there is a sizeable portion of people there that have no idea why they are there, or what they are doing. Consider these people "Church NPCs"

It reminds me of the statistics of people who actually give money to the Church. Its something like only 10% of the people in the Church give anything to it.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
06-16-2019 09:43 PM
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Vladimir Poontang Offline
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Post: #862
RE: The God pill
(06-16-2019 08:15 PM)Enhanced Eddie Wrote:  
(06-16-2019 07:46 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  How are you supposed to enjoy things and people in life without becoming attached / idolizing them? Doesn't enjoying them mean that they touch something in you and fulfill you in some way? How are you supposed to have a "take it or leave it" attitude to things in life if those things fulfill you? If a thing has meaning, surely it's a manifestation of something inside of you so how can you let go of it? If you don't have an attachment to something, on what basis do you enjoy it? Wouldn't your enjoyment be superficial and lacking in depth and meaning? Doesn't enjoying it involve not wanting to lose it or be without it? Isn't love / enjoyment based on need, and therefore fear of loss? Why do we have a sense of fulfillment / ability to be fulfilled in the first place?

The distinction here is taught in buddhism as well... and it's craving (Taṇhā).

It's the difference between enjoying a night out drinking, vs. being an alcoholic.

If not having it makes you miserable, you are dealing with attachment.

OTOH, if you can enjoy it but also be happy without it, you are free of craving.

But if you can be happy without it, then wanting it and enjoying it becomes meaningless.

That's not how we do things in Russia, comrade.

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06-17-2019 04:07 AM
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General Mayhem Offline
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RE: The God pill
(06-16-2019 09:43 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  
(06-16-2019 07:00 PM)TripleG Wrote:  
(06-16-2019 06:11 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  Attended a "marriage retreat" yesterday as part of the requirement for my upcoming marriage in the catholic church. Very interesting mix of couples in attendance. The most surprising thing to us was how many couples chose to skip the confession that was offered before the concluding mass.

Interesting...question is then just how religious are these couples and are they really practicing the key tenants of Christian faith. For example you are not allowed to have sex before marriage, and I'd be surprised if none of these engaged couples were doing it. I'm sure a few are having relations outside of marriage, I'm just surpsied how they allow this to slide and are not affected by guilt. I know i'd be really sad if I were to be married in the catholic church in front of a priest while being afflicted by grave sin

If you take a sampling of people who attend a church, there is a sizeable portion of people there that have no idea why they are there, or what they are doing. Consider these people "Church NPCs"

It reminds me of the statistics of people who actually give money to the Church. Its something like only 10% of the people in the Church give anything to it.

Church NPC is a very apt term for them. I am sure some of couples were there because they had catholic family members who pressured them to get married in the church.
06-17-2019 10:17 AM
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #864
RE: The God pill
(06-16-2019 09:43 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  If you take a sampling of people who attend a church, there is a sizeable portion of people there that have no idea why they are there, or what they are doing. Consider these people "Church NPCs"

Obviously these must exist, otherwise we would sit almost alone in congregation. Wink
06-17-2019 10:22 AM
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RE: The God pill
(06-17-2019 04:07 AM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  
(06-16-2019 08:15 PM)Enhanced Eddie Wrote:  
(06-16-2019 07:46 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  How are you supposed to enjoy things and people in life without becoming attached / idolizing them? Doesn't enjoying them mean that they touch something in you and fulfill you in some way? How are you supposed to have a "take it or leave it" attitude to things in life if those things fulfill you? If a thing has meaning, surely it's a manifestation of something inside of you so how can you let go of it? If you don't have an attachment to something, on what basis do you enjoy it? Wouldn't your enjoyment be superficial and lacking in depth and meaning? Doesn't enjoying it involve not wanting to lose it or be without it? Isn't love / enjoyment based on need, and therefore fear of loss? Why do we have a sense of fulfillment / ability to be fulfilled in the first place?

The distinction here is taught in buddhism as well... and it's craving (Taṇhā).

It's the difference between enjoying a night out drinking, vs. being an alcoholic.

If not having it makes you miserable, you are dealing with attachment.

OTOH, if you can enjoy it but also be happy without it, you are free of craving.

But if you can be happy without it, then wanting it and enjoying it becomes meaningless.

Refer back to my example about alcoholism.

You don't need to be an alcoholic in order to want and enjoy a night out with friends drinking. Not being an alcoholic doesn't make the night out drinking meaningless.
06-17-2019 11:37 AM
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RE: The God pill
(06-17-2019 10:17 AM)General Mayhem Wrote:  
(06-16-2019 09:43 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  
(06-16-2019 07:00 PM)TripleG Wrote:  
(06-16-2019 06:11 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  Attended a "marriage retreat" yesterday as part of the requirement for my upcoming marriage in the catholic church. Very interesting mix of couples in attendance. The most surprising thing to us was how many couples chose to skip the confession that was offered before the concluding mass.

Interesting...question is then just how religious are these couples and are they really practicing the key tenants of Christian faith. For example you are not allowed to have sex before marriage, and I'd be surprised if none of these engaged couples were doing it. I'm sure a few are having relations outside of marriage, I'm just surpsied how they allow this to slide and are not affected by guilt. I know i'd be really sad if I were to be married in the catholic church in front of a priest while being afflicted by grave sin

If you take a sampling of people who attend a church, there is a sizeable portion of people there that have no idea why they are there, or what they are doing. Consider these people "Church NPCs"

It reminds me of the statistics of people who actually give money to the Church. Its something like only 10% of the people in the Church give anything to it.

Church NPC is a very apt term for them. I am sure some of couples were there because they had catholic family members who pressured them to get married in the church.

I shouldn't be too hard on them, at least they are there, and will know where to turn when their live has a crisis that causes them to wake up and come to Jesus.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
06-17-2019 02:33 PM
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Post: #867
RE: The God pill
Is any book coming out? I' d like to hear your argumentations and personal experiences about this change.
06-18-2019 03:57 PM
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RE: The God pill
On the subject of church and marriage, here's a very interesting piece of information: the divorce rate among devout Christian couples of European descent is less than 10%, according to a recent Vox Day podcast.

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06-19-2019 12:12 AM
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RE: The God pill
(06-19-2019 12:12 AM)911 Wrote:  On the subject of church and marriage, here's a very interesting piece of information: the divorce rate among devout Christian couples of European descent is less than 10%, according to a recent Vox Day podcast.
What's the definition of "devout Christian couples"?
06-19-2019 12:17 AM
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RE: The God pill
(06-19-2019 12:17 AM)wwtl Wrote:  
(06-19-2019 12:12 AM)911 Wrote:  On the subject of church and marriage, here's a very interesting piece of information: the divorce rate among devout Christian couples of European descent is less than 10%, according to a recent Vox Day podcast.
What's the definition of "devout Christian couples"?

Likely, couples who attend church together weekly, believe that the bible is truly the word of God, and who believe that divorce is a severe sin (except under very narrow circumstances). Jesus discussed divorce during His Sermon on the Mount:

Quote:31 “And it was said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. 32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for a matter of sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Matthew 5:31-32

The only legitimate reasons for divorce were adultery, abandonment, or beatings.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2019 12:35 AM by Tail Gunner.)
06-19-2019 12:30 AM
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RE: The God pill
In the context of polls like these, it would be as basic as people who attend church services fairly regulary.

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06-19-2019 12:31 AM
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RE: The God pill
Attending church weekly and carrying a Bible isn't a sign for a devout Christian, who cares about sin. AWALT ist true even in church. It's social shaming, which keeps women in check - which is the main reason why divorce rates are low among certain groups.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2019 12:48 AM by wwtl.)
06-19-2019 12:47 AM
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Post: #873
RE: The God pill
(06-14-2019 05:13 AM)fenetre Wrote:  Learning about the history of Protestantism is another devastating blow to my feelings of ecumenism. While we have no qualms towards believers in Christ, Protestantism as a movement was founded in pillage of the Catholic Church (CC), sexual licence, and theological error. Protestantism is characterised by rebellion and revolution but to a lesser degree than Judaism.

That is just a repetition of falsehood that is said over again and again doesn't make it true. Protestants doing this and being responsible for that for all the evils of modernity or something along those lines.

Really is just aggravating.

Show me Reformed/Lutheran churches that you know that hold to the highest view of scripture in Prima Scriptura at large doing this.

Many heretics were also protestant indeed. But don't paint all of us with this broad brush.

Its not rebellion but a return to faithfulness.

If you want to pursue this further I recommend:

https://twitter.com/tacollin

And his channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjAHEc6...w_zfgSp1VQ

He has better knowledge in this regard than me in regards to this topic.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2019 01:08 AM by infowarrior1.)
06-19-2019 01:02 AM
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Post: #874
RE: The God pill
I’m not sure. I remember seeing a divorce map of the US and divorce rates looked higher in the South’s Bible Belt.

You’ve got to be careful that a lot of non-conformist Black and White Christian women have the ‘only God can judge me’ attitude, which invariably means doing the hypergamic rounds before repenting when a nice omega provider comes into view.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2019 01:03 AM by N°6.)
06-19-2019 01:03 AM
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infowarrior1
ilostabet Offline
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Posts: 458
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Post: #875
RE: The God pill
The Protestant revolution was not a result of the corruption of the Church, money, theology or sexual liberation - these are all proximate causes. The ultimate cause was the printing press.

«Spring brings cherry blossoms to comfort you, the summer stars, the harvest moon in fall, and the powdered snow in winter. All of these things, and the promise of them, is what makes sake taste so good. If the taste is bad, it comes from you.»

Seijuro Hiko
06-19-2019 02:39 AM
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