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The God pill
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infowarrior1 Online
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Post: #1401
RE: The God pill
Its the doctrine of reprobates that I think is the basis of what Michael and others and objecting to.

He did a whole sermon on that:




The doctrine that sinners can reach a form of hardheartedness of no return. Men like Judas Iscariot for one.

This view informs the attitude by Steven Anderson. Along with others.
09-30-2019 06:58 AM
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Post: #1402
RE: The God pill
(09-30-2019 04:55 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  The difference between correct and incorrect Bible study is that, done properly, one's study of the Scriptures is guided and contained by the interpretations passed down from the earliest centuries. Done improperly, everyone gets their own "special insight" and / or reinvents ancient heresies simply because they don't realize that what they think they've discovered is actually opposed to everything the Apostles and their students taught. The truth is the Scriptures are not open to personal interpretation, which the Bible itself says, and allowing your study to be guided and contained by the exegesis of the Church Fathers will both greatly deepen your understanding and, equally if not more importantly, protect you from the pride and delusion that so many "sola scriptura" people end up falling into. They have rejected the authority of the Church in order to become their own authority, utterly separate from the authority that Christ gave the Apostles to teach and interpret.
While I think the Exegesis of the Church Fathers is helpful its the guidance of the Holy spirit in the believer that guides him into all truth in the end.(John 16:13).

However none of what the Church Father's taught is infallible and the word of God.

And what the Apostles taught and interpreted is already recorded to us in the New Testament.

Yes the Scripture isn't open to interpretation. And many Reformed know that there is proper Hermenuetics because Scripture has only particular meanings intended.
09-30-2019 07:09 AM
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NoMoreTO Online
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Post: #1403
RE: The God pill
(09-30-2019 06:58 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  Its the doctrine of reprobates that I think is the basis of what Michael and others and objecting to.

I am not doing the actual research at this exact moment so maybe someone can bring in a Saint. But it is my understanding that there are saints that have pointed to each person having a set amount of Mortal Sins before God turns them over. At this point you live out your life 'as is', or God decides for you to die. In either case you would not be going to heaven.

Quote:St. Basil, St. Jerome, St. John Chrysostom, St. Augustine and other fathers, teach, that as God according to the words of Scripture, "Thou hast ordered all things in measure, and number, and weight" – Wis. 11:21

There is some backing to the idea that a homosexual could not be saved or converted if they were turned over, but it would be based on the individual basis, as to whether God has turned them over to a reprobate mind, but only God would know that. As a Christian, we would not know whether this is the case or not so would still have to evangelize and speak the Truth.

Remember that Jesus came to save the least, this is shown with the unclean woman who washes his feet with her tears. The worst sinners can be saved, and this is a greater glory to God.

I have always understood Romans 1 on a more societal level and to me it has a special importance with respect to our current society. We can see the step by step progression of our own society moving through this progression.

For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. Rom 1:22
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2019 11:38 AM by NoMoreTO.)
09-30-2019 11:00 AM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #1404
RE: The God pill
(09-29-2019 03:33 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  Found it. The Dimond brothers are kind of odd - they claim to live in a "monastery" but have no canonical monastic rule or superior - and are subsequently part of the disreputable class of "monks" that St. Benedict referred to as "sarabaites." That said, if you can get past the heavy Roman Catholic bias to some of what they say, they do make good videos from time to time...and their takedown of "pastor" Anderson is one of them. I've watched this whole thing and I recommend doing likewise for anyone following Anderson, hopefully it will help break through the spell and you will see him for who he is instead of being captivated by his charisma:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lwwfCpvXnc

That was an extremely valuable video. That cracker is just a male hamster looking for Bible verses to back up all his prejudices, and sometimes not even bothering to do that.

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

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09-30-2019 11:11 AM
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Post: #1405
RE: The God pill
I very much believe that once you take these pills you will end up with God. There will be some, as there has always been, that will still not believe. That's fine, the point is this path leads to God and for most people, I believe, they will find faith. And this starts with the Red Pill. The red pill leads to the black pill and, as mentioned, it is the black pill that leads to God. Please note, this process is unfolding before our eyes. The majority of people in this community of ours are still red pill, less or black pill and less still, excluding the already faithful, have reached the end of this process, which is God. So let the process go and go and go. The key here is to keep red pilling. And there is good news to that effect. Joe Rogan has become increasingly difficult to stomach, but, Rogan still Red Pills. The recently retired Lauren Southern and her exploits notwithstanding, still Red Pilled people. Even Milo, who is Catholic, Red Pills people. I've always had faith, but, I see in this thread something that is actualizing faith with others and that is the realization of not only evil, but, just how diabolical evil is. We see this with feminism, which has the full support of the state to undermine not only men but boys, in order for women and girls to assume their expectations for a "perfect" life. Ahem, which is having a degree and job, i.e. the material, sufficiently prestigious, so, they can then look down on other people. Yet they do this under the guise of "equality". That evil is diabolical, but, its also coordinated, planned, intentional and even, out in the open. You can see a guiding hand here much like the "unseen hand" in capitalism, but different, that drives this. And what is it? Jealousy, envy, in-gratitude. To me, I see satan all over this. Than, of course, you have the push to sexualize children and the beginnings of their push to pedophilia, which if you examine the history of these "movements" you'll see this was the intention from the beginning. My faith was already strong, but it has been affirmed in recent years because I know satan most certainly exists. Its a fascinating journey. You realize that all of history reduces down to a fight between good and evil.
09-30-2019 12:52 PM
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Post: #1406
RE: The God pill
Infowarrier, I agree that the Church Fathers were not infallible. They sometimes disagreed with each other and, in the case of my patron Saint, Augustine, even taught things that the rest of the Church outright refused to accept (the filioque, for example). However, when they *all* agree on a specific topic, you can be fairly sure that's the correct interpretation. A good example is whether the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Christ. The Bible clearly says it is - including saying that it's such a hard teaching some of Christ's own disciples abandoned Him over it, and including saying that people got sick and died from partaking of it unworthily - but you will rarely if ever find a modern Protestant who believes that. Martin Luther did, Zwingli did not, Calvin couldn't make up his mind - but *all* of the Church Fathers did, including St. Ignatius of Antioch whose priest was St. John the Apostle himself. So when the patristic exegesis shows a clear consensus, and an individual person reads the Bible and concludes that the exact opposite of what they *all* taught is the "truth," it's usually safe to assume that that person is wrong - even if it's you or me who has come to the erroneous conclusion. Hope that makes sense.

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2019 02:08 PM by MichaelWitcoff.)
09-30-2019 02:07 PM
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Post: #1407
RE: The God pill
(09-30-2019 05:18 AM)wwtl Wrote:  My approach to my Christian faith is fundamentally incompatible with many traditional teachings as I understood them, because they essentially think of them as "Prelest".

Also there is the preconception that Protestants get told something wrong "their whole lives" and "convert" once they see the right way. I simply can't relate to this, because that's not how my own journey went.

I understand what you mean. There are aspects of my own initial conversion and experience thus far that some modern Orthodox would slander with the term "prelest" as well, generally because they haven't read the Lives of the Saints in which similar experiences have happened throughout time (and they're just using the term reflexively to shut down something they maybe don't understand). But in other cases, prelest is very real. "Pastor" Anderson is a good example of prelest in a very loud, abrasive form. I do also know of plenty of Catholodox who had the opposite experience, starting in the apostolic denominations and ending up being "saved" and converting to Protestantism instead, but I'd also argue that the version of Catholodoxy they were taught might not have been the same one preached by the ancient Church (since the Fathers and Saints, in my experience, tend to have room for the things they believe they only "discovered" in Protestantism). But it's on an individual basis, I think, and I try never to presume anyone's state of salvation or lack thereof.

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09-30-2019 02:13 PM
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Post: #1408
RE: The God pill
(09-30-2019 11:11 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  
(09-29-2019 03:33 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  Found it. The Dimond brothers are kind of odd - they claim to live in a "monastery" but have no canonical monastic rule or superior - and are subsequently part of the disreputable class of "monks" that St. Benedict referred to as "sarabaites." That said, if you can get past the heavy Roman Catholic bias to some of what they say, they do make good videos from time to time...and their takedown of "pastor" Anderson is one of them. I've watched this whole thing and I recommend doing likewise for anyone following Anderson, hopefully it will help break through the spell and you will see him for who he is instead of being captivated by his charisma:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lwwfCpvXnc

That was an extremely valuable video. That cracker is just a male hamster looking for Bible verses to back up all his prejudices, and sometimes not even bothering to do that.

Facepalm

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09-30-2019 02:56 PM
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Post: #1409
RE: The God pill
The secular liberal progressive culture is inadequate when it comes to dealing with the reality of death. Everyone of us will die. The liberal nihilistic culture that we're all forced to live under contends that even though there is no God and all the rest, that when faced with such an existential angst just buy more stuff, take more drugs and have more sex. This is their only way of dealing with death and like with so many other things they choose to ignore reality. For us Gen X'ers death was distant thing. It happened to our old aunt who lived a full life anyway. Not so any more. We're all at or past 40. Death is coming. Thats not meant to be melodramatic, it just is stating the truth. Where is old Dave Matthews when someone close to you dies? Are you supposed to be comforted by "eat drink and be merry for tomorrow you may die"? According to the liberal progressive, you will never see that person ever again forever. Worse still, what about when its you during your final moments? We can talk all day about scientific method, measuring photons and galaxies. We can marvel at our combined knowledge and technology. Take a moment and be honest...put death into your "world view". Take it into account for all it is worth, because it is worth your life, literally. No one can be flippant to death, to do so is foolish. The liberal secular progressive tells you that all you have in store for you in a few short years is absolutely nothing! Total and complete oblivion. Consider that. Really ruminate on that, because, there is no red blooded person that will not see this as complete and pure terror. Funny, this is perhaps one of the few things that every one of us humans have in common.
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2019 04:57 PM by Towgunner.)
09-30-2019 04:54 PM
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #1410
RE: The God pill
Few things I can try to help clarify the debate in here with.

Jesus tells us that sins against men are forgivable, but sins against god are unforgivable.

Matthew 12:31:

"Because of this I say to you, all sin and evil speaking shall be forgiven to men, but the evil speaking of the Spirit shall not be forgiven to men."

Sins against men can be forgiven, but sins against God, through our words, cannot be forgiven. Blasphemy is the only one that cannot be forgiven, and that is where reprobates fall into.

Regular sinners - whoremongers, sodomites, addicts, murders, rapists, pimps, thieves, etc, can always be saved because they are sinning against men. This is what Jesus taught us, and I do not doubt it.

But doing something like below...





Go to 9:53 if you don't have time to watch the whole thing and see the levels of blasphemy Carlin says at the end.

"If there is a God, strike me dead."

After this skit in 1999, Carlin's health declined tremendously in the following years. The last 10 years of his life were defined by serious and painful heart problems, depression, and addictions to painkillers, before he died at 71.

I think God was giving him a small taste of the suffering to come.

But I digress. Carlin is an example of a reprobate. Many sinners, although still firmly on the path to hell, are not reprobates and still can technically be saved. I think to be a reprobate, one needs to be a blasphemer. When you see something regularly bad-mouthing God or His son, then that is a lost soul destined for hell.

Even some of the worst criminals know better than to trash talk God, common sense dictates to us not to mess with someone potentially far more powerful than you are and risk his wrath.


---


As for the early Church fathers, they are the ones who constructed the Bible we read today. Saying you trust the Bible over the early Fathers is like saying you trust the Census but not the US Government.

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(This post was last modified: 09-30-2019 06:57 PM by Samseau.)
09-30-2019 06:55 PM
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Post: #1411
RE: The God pill
(09-30-2019 06:55 PM)Samseau Wrote:  After this skit in 1999, Carlin's health declined tremendously in the following years. The last 10 years of his life were defined by serious and painful heart problems, depression, and addictions to painkillers, before he died at 71.

I think God was giving him a small taste of the suffering to come.

I see what you're saying but come on bro....

Carlin had all sorts of health problems waaay before this skit. He had like 3 heart attacks in the 80s from all the coke he did (by his own admission).

Terrible example.
09-30-2019 07:11 PM
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Post: #1412
RE: The God pill
(09-30-2019 07:11 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 06:55 PM)Samseau Wrote:  After this skit in 1999, Carlin's health declined tremendously in the following years. The last 10 years of his life were defined by serious and painful heart problems, depression, and addictions to painkillers, before he died at 71.

I think God was giving him a small taste of the suffering to come.

I see what you're saying but come on bro....

Carlin had all sorts of health problems waaay before this skit. He had like 3 heart attacks in the 80s from all the coke he did (by his own admission).

Terrible example.

And if he had prayed to God for help, he could have alleviated his addiction and received healing on his heart. Instead of suffering for a decade, he could have lived relatively peacefully until his final moments.

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09-30-2019 07:19 PM
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Post: #1413
RE: The God pill
One thing I wonder about is the Biblical stance on tattoos. Apparently Leviticus 19:28 forbids them, yet with the insane proliferation of tats nowadays, there must be more than a few "Christians" running around will full sleeves.

How does this get reconciled?
09-30-2019 07:33 PM
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Post: #1414
RE: The God pill
(09-30-2019 07:19 PM)Samseau Wrote:  And if he had prayed to God for help, he could have alleviated his addiction and received healing on his heart. Instead of suffering for a decade, he could have lived relatively peacefully until his final moments.

Christians get sick all the time. All types of life ending diseases and addictions so if it was that simple they would all be healed. I do agree that if someone accepts God they will be able to live with these issues much more peacefully.
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2019 07:43 PM by worldwidetraveler.)
09-30-2019 07:42 PM
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Post: #1415
RE: The God pill
(09-30-2019 07:33 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  One thing I wonder about is the Biblical stance on tattoos. Apparently Leviticus 19:28 forbids them, yet with the insane proliferation of tats nowadays, there must be more than a few "Christians" running around will full sleeves.

How does this get reconciled?

It's hard for me to take the words of those who preach seriously if they themselves are tatted up. It is a mutilation and a blood-letting ritual even if they don't know it.

I have never put ink or metal in my body and I never will. I may not be a saint, but at least I've only defiled my temple with other filthy temples and not with permanent markings and things that forever alter the body.

Just a turn off to me for anyone, though I try not to (((be judgmental))) tard because people get all uppity when you start criticizing tats and all that. Now good luck finding a woman who doesn't have any of that shit in her.

You can't cheat nature.
09-30-2019 09:00 PM
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Post: #1416
RE: The God pill
(09-30-2019 07:33 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  One thing I wonder about is the Biblical stance on tattoos. Apparently Leviticus 19:28 forbids them, yet with the insane proliferation of tats nowadays, there must be more than a few "Christians" running around will full sleeves.

How does this get reconciled?







Compare and contrast this preaching with mainstream Christianity/Catholicism and that's why. Leaders in mainstream Christianity can't sack up and take a stance like a man because they want to be cool with the trends and keep that money rollin in. When the answer is right there in front of them the whole time







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(This post was last modified: 09-30-2019 09:28 PM by Spectrumwalker.)
09-30-2019 09:03 PM
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Post: #1417
RE: The God pill
I think most people who came to Christ after any notable period of rebellion have blasphemed God at some stage and those who claim they never have are probably simply not remembering the past very well.

And for anyone bothering to look there will be a passage that contradicts the ban on blasphemers redeeming themselves.

Unfortunately this thread is degenerating into pathetic bidding war over who can condemn the largest swathe of humanity and therefore signal their supposed spiritual virtue and superiority.

"Let's start the bidding at homosexuals. Can I get a blanket ban on redemption for homos. YOU SIR! We have a blanket ban on redemption for homos! Come, now, folks. We're bidding for the title of most holy here, can I get... YOU SIR! Bidding is raised to a ban on redemption for blasphemers. Can I get a bid for double-parkers. No? Double parkers? No? Going once. Going tw...YOU SIR!"

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2019 09:45 PM by Leonard D Neubache.)
09-30-2019 09:36 PM
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Kid Twist Offline
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Post: #1418
RE: The God pill
(09-30-2019 07:09 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 04:55 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  The difference between correct and incorrect Bible study is that, done properly, one's study of the Scriptures is guided and contained by the interpretations passed down from the earliest centuries. Done improperly, everyone gets their own "special insight" and / or reinvents ancient heresies simply because they don't realize that what they think they've discovered is actually opposed to everything the Apostles and their students taught. The truth is the Scriptures are not open to personal interpretation, which the Bible itself says, and allowing your study to be guided and contained by the exegesis of the Church Fathers will both greatly deepen your understanding and, equally if not more importantly, protect you from the pride and delusion that so many "sola scriptura" people end up falling into. They have rejected the authority of the Church in order to become their own authority, utterly separate from the authority that Christ gave the Apostles to teach and interpret.
While I think the Exegesis of the Church Fathers is helpful its the guidance of the Holy spirit in the believer that guides him into all truth in the end.(John 16:13).

However none of what the Church Father's taught is infallible and the word of God.

And what the Apostles taught and interpreted is already recorded to us in the New Testament.

Yes the Scripture isn't open to interpretation. And many Reformed know that there is proper Hermenuetics because Scripture has only particular meanings intended.

If someone doesn't hasn't a clue what proper teaching and practice is, he will have a hard time identifying the spirit of truth. There are a lot of spirits out there, as evidenced by the 30,000 arguments about the Bible that exist here or there.

Correct, no Church Father is infallible, that's why he is but a member of the church.

There are hundreds of levels of teaching that include the entirety of apostolic succession, and the New Testament scriptures are to be understood within a context that is very deep, and without the Church who wrote it, by definition it is not possible to understand, precisely because it wrote it and considered these writings reliable.

What's missing from most is that the scriptures are a part of the sacramental life of the church. Those that focus just on scriptures and not the assembly of people that form the body deny this sacramental life, which is very problematic from a historical and even scriptural point of view about what God is doing and will be doing in the world.
09-30-2019 09:54 PM
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Post: #1419
RE: The God pill
(09-30-2019 09:36 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Unfortunately this thread is degenerating into pathetic bidding war over who can condemn the largest swathe of humanity and therefore signal their supposed spiritual virtue and superiority.

I don't think that's what's going on.

Like everything else on this site, some people just want to know what the truth is, and they can decide from what they read.
09-30-2019 09:56 PM
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Post: #1420
RE: The God pill
(09-30-2019 07:33 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  One thing I wonder about is the Biblical stance on tattoos. Apparently Leviticus 19:28 forbids them, yet with the insane proliferation of tats nowadays, there must be more than a few "Christians" running around will full sleeves.

How does this get reconciled?

At the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15, the Church decided that following the Jewish law was not necessary for Christians. So the clear skin policy doesn't apply to us.

Nicholas the Tsar-Martyr is recognized as a saint by the Church, despite having a dragon tattoo on his forearm from a voyage to Japan.

The common Christian anti-tattoo argument I've always heard is that our bodies are temples. Of course, Orthodox Christian temples are covered floor-to-ceiling in art. I don't have any tattoos, but I don't think it's necessarily unchristian to get one.

There is a prohibition of clergy getting tatted up. My priest jokes that if he ever wants out his plan is to get a full sleeve.
09-30-2019 10:45 PM
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Post: #1421
RE: The God pill
(09-30-2019 02:13 PM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 05:18 AM)wwtl Wrote:  My approach to my Christian faith is fundamentally incompatible with many traditional teachings as I understood them, because they essentially think of them as "Prelest".

Also there is the preconception that Protestants get told something wrong "their whole lives" and "convert" once they see the right way. I simply can't relate to this, because that's not how my own journey went.

I understand what you mean. There are aspects of my own initial conversion and experience thus far that some modern Orthodox would slander with the term "prelest" as well, generally because they haven't read the Lives of the Saints in which similar experiences have happened throughout time (and they're just using the term reflexively to shut down something they maybe don't understand).

My guidance through the Holy Spirit is an ongoing part of my daily life now, and there are theological opinions which simply dismiss the possibility of such a life. (In general society it's delicate topic to bring up, as most people while accepting you having some "imaginary friend" never accept that He might talk back.)

I need this guidance to be actually able to understand and make sense of the Bible as I didn't grew up with it. Things I got taught by Him early on after my conversation were: How I get saved through faith in Jesus Christ. That in doubt stick to Scripture, about sin and repentance of and why we have different flavors of Christianity and how I should deal with it.

The native language media I concerned myself with during my further studies were mainly provided by the two mainstream churches of my country: RCC and Evangelical (Lutheran, Reformed, United) Church. (Orthodox teachings didn't come up, because I don't live in Russia.)
10-01-2019 12:48 AM
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MichaelWitcoff Offline
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Post: #1422
RE: The God pill
Wwtl, can you give any examples of a theological opinion that dismisses the possibility of guidance through the Holy Spirit? As far as I'm aware that's an enormous part of any Christian's life, so I'm genuinely curious what you mean. It's certainly a huge part of my moment-to-moment experience throughout the day.

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
10-01-2019 05:53 AM
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MichaelWitcoff Offline
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Post: #1423
RE: The God pill
(09-30-2019 06:58 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  Its the doctrine of reprobates that I think is the basis of what Michael and others and objecting to.

He did a whole sermon on that:




The doctrine that sinners can reach a form of hardheartedness of no return. Men like Judas Iscariot for one.

This view informs the attitude by Steven Anderson. Along with others.

I have a sincere question for everyone who believes that Steven "everyone on Earth is a demonic false prophet but me" Anderson is somehow a good example of what a Christian man should be.

Has he ever - once in his entire "ministry" - said a single kind word about another human being?

If so, please post the clip here.

If you're unable to find one, then I think it speaks volumes that the *only* clips of him anywhere on YouTube seem to be of him almost trembling with rage as he yells about all of the various people he hates.

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2019 06:03 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
10-01-2019 06:01 AM
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PainPositive Offline
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Post: #1424
RE: The God pill
MC,

Getting away from preachers like this is a hard thing to do probably for the same reasons people love to rage on Twitter and political threads. Topics that make us angry are shared many times more then feel-good topics. I think this comes from pride. It makes people feel good to think that their way of worshipping God is the "right way". For that to be true everyone else has to be wrong.

The other extreme is the "everything we do is okay because Jesus has forgiven us."
10-01-2019 06:26 AM
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #1425
RE: The God pill
(10-01-2019 05:53 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  Wwtl, can you give any examples of a theological opinion that dismisses the possibility of guidance through the Holy Spirit? As far as I'm aware that's an enormous part of any Christian's life, so I'm genuinely curious what you mean. It's certainly a huge part of my moment-to-moment experience throughout the day.

At some point of my journey I came along the opinion that the baptism in the Holy Spirit only happens with the baptism in water (so every Christian gets it automatically as a baby) usually together with "gifts of the Spirit have ceased".
10-01-2019 06:40 AM
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