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The God pill
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ThriceLazarus Offline
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Post: #726
RE: The God pill
With regards to the necessity of denomination, or congregation, or any particulars when it comes to achieving the Way, allow me to interject.

My own path has been strange. Decidedly weird, however I was an eccentric from an early age so I am not surprised. This may be the Egoistic part of me speaking, which is the Demonic, however the serendipities I have stumbled through this last decade allow me some hope that it is not - at least not entirely.

To be a blasphemer:

AB, with great respect, the spiritual process you describe was recorded and codified by Eastern mystics millenia before the West dared take flight through that rarified air. It has been chilling at times as I have taken to the Daoist Classics - the scant, archaic poetries of Walking the Way - as to how these people had known the process of spiritual purification literally thousands of years before the LORD dared reveal himself to those dubious desert dwellers.

Before Abram became Abraham, already ascended masters sat the starry peaks of Da Hengshan.

It is unfortunate that so many believe that Yeshua must need a church, or a pastor or priest, or a community to reach the needy soul through Space and Time.

He is bigger than all of that.

Edit:

@VP

Quote:Why does everything have to be so complicated? Do your best and talk to God, that's it.

Hah! While I was busy talking loud and saying nothing, you eloquently summarized exactly what I mean.

Cheers!
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2019 05:26 AM by ThriceLazarus.)
06-10-2019 05:23 AM
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worldwidetraveler Offline
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Post: #727
RE: The God pill
(06-10-2019 05:01 AM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  Why does everything have to be so complicated? Do your best and talk to God, that's it.

Right, follow the Gospels according to Jesus and you will be good to go. One of the problems I see with religion is the shaming and the fear used on people. Context matters and why a person does something matter. Behaving a certain way because you're afraid of going to hell is much different to doing something because you want to do it and believe it is the right thing to do.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2019 06:14 AM by worldwidetraveler.)
06-10-2019 06:12 AM
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Dr. Howard Away
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Post: #728
RE: The God pill
(06-10-2019 06:12 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 05:01 AM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  Why does everything have to be so complicated? Do your best and talk to God, that's it.

Right, follow the Gospels according to Jesus and you will be good to go. One of the problems I see with religion is the shaming and the fear used on people. Context matters and why a person does something matter. Behaving a certain way because you're afraid of going to hell is much different to doing something because you want to do it and believe it is the right thing to do.

I live in the bible belt, and if someone doesn't go to Church, its not that they were never exposed to it. Its that they went and were somehow embarrassed or shamed out of it. Churches that become too obsessed with condemning others and being 'rules lawyers' like the Pharisees run this risk.

My only recommendation is that someone does not study the bible alone entirely. Even if wounded by a church a person can still volunteer with Christian Charities, missions and attend conferences etc. Exposure to other Christians helps to ground and test what you have learned from the bible.

Where it also helps is that when you interact with Christians doing work outside of the church you also don't run into the ones who tend to poison the church. The old lady who gossiping about others in the hall before service doesn't tend to show up downtown for the homeless outreach.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
06-10-2019 08:56 AM
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worldwidetraveler Offline
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Post: #729
RE: The God pill
(06-10-2019 08:56 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  I live in the bible belt, and if someone doesn't go to Church, its not that they were never exposed to it. Its that they went and were somehow embarrassed or shamed out of it. Churches that become too obsessed with condemning others and being 'rules lawyers' like the Pharisees run this risk.

My only recommendation is that someone does not study the bible alone entirely. Even if wounded by a church a person can still volunteer with Christian Charities, missions and attend conferences etc. Exposure to other Christians helps to ground and test what you have learned from the bible.

Where it also helps is that when you interact with Christians doing work outside of the church you also don't run into the ones who tend to poison the church. The old lady who gossiping about others in the hall before service doesn't tend to show up downtown for the homeless outreach.


Great point Dr Howard. I also think you touch on another very important point in that we need to live the teachings as much as read them.

Studying is great.

Being able to quote scriptures is cool.

We need to be able to put into action what we learn. I've been working on getting my ego in check and being judgemental. It is difficult. I can see what is happening yet the judging and ego pops it's ugly head just when I think I have it figured out. haha
06-10-2019 11:03 AM
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General Mayhem Offline
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Post: #730
RE: The God pill
(06-10-2019 11:03 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 08:56 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  I live in the bible belt, and if someone doesn't go to Church, its not that they were never exposed to it. Its that they went and were somehow embarrassed or shamed out of it. Churches that become too obsessed with condemning others and being 'rules lawyers' like the Pharisees run this risk.

My only recommendation is that someone does not study the bible alone entirely. Even if wounded by a church a person can still volunteer with Christian Charities, missions and attend conferences etc. Exposure to other Christians helps to ground and test what you have learned from the bible.

Where it also helps is that when you interact with Christians doing work outside of the church you also don't run into the ones who tend to poison the church. The old lady who gossiping about others in the hall before service doesn't tend to show up downtown for the homeless outreach.


Great point Dr Howard. I also think you touch on another very important point in that we need to live the teachings as much as read them.

Studying is great.

Being able to quote scriptures is cool.

We need to be able to put into action what we learn. I've been working on getting my ego in check and being judgemental. It is difficult. I can see what is happening yet the judging and ego pops it's ugly head just when I think I have it figured out. haha

My mind wants to take this in a different direction based on something I saw this weekend.

There is a bad meme, I don't know what to call it. Maybe church nerd would be applicable for men poorly representing the faith in public. For example, I saw a soft looking guy wearing cargo shorts, socks, sandles, and a shirt that said, "Jesus saves Bro"

Maybe I am judging too much but I feel like these types of people aren't doing the church any favors. It's like a fresh Army recruit who is pasty and out of shape wearing camo shorts and a shirt saying "Shoot, Move, Communicate, Kill" out in public.

I wouldn't go so far as to say these guys are poisoning the church but I don't think they are doing it any favors either.

Thoughts like this have been common in my coming back to the faith and I have been trying to sort through them as best I can. I feel like this is a serious thing that doesn't equate with people trying to put cute sayings on neon colored shirts.
06-10-2019 11:46 AM
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Tail Gunner Offline
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Post: #731
RE: The God pill
(06-10-2019 11:03 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 08:56 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  I live in the bible belt, and if someone doesn't go to Church, its not that they were never exposed to it. Its that they went and were somehow embarrassed or shamed out of it. Churches that become too obsessed with condemning others and being 'rules lawyers' like the Pharisees run this risk.

My only recommendation is that someone does not study the bible alone entirely. Even if wounded by a church a person can still volunteer with Christian Charities, missions and attend conferences etc. Exposure to other Christians helps to ground and test what you have learned from the bible.

Where it also helps is that when you interact with Christians doing work outside of the church you also don't run into the ones who tend to poison the church. The old lady who gossiping about others in the hall before service doesn't tend to show up downtown for the homeless outreach.


Great point Dr Howard. I also think you touch on another very important point in that we need to live the teachings as much as read them.

Studying is great.

Being able to quote scriptures is cool.

We need to be able to put into action what we learn. I've been working on getting my ego in check and being judgemental. It is difficult. I can see what is happening yet the judging and ego pops it's ugly head just when I think I have it figured out. haha

You have every right and, in fact, a duty to judge the actions of others. God's people (and the Church) have a duty to hold each other accountable for their actions according to the standards espoused in the Bible. I wrote about that issue in a previous post.

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-72750...pid1967678

Obviously, you will want to study the scriptures first, so that you know that you are correct before judging the actions of others.
06-10-2019 11:52 AM
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worldwidetraveler Offline
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Post: #732
RE: The God pill
(06-10-2019 11:52 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  You have every right and, in fact, a duty to judge the actions of others. God's people (and the Church) have a duty to hold each other accountable for their actions according to the standards espoused in the Bible. I wrote about that issue in a previous post.

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-72750...pid1967678

Obviously, you will want to study the scriptures first, so that you know that you are correct before judging the actions of others.

I will have to respectfully disagree with your view on this Tail Gunner. I think we can help more people by not judging than to cast them out if they don't play by a set of rules. In fact, I don't know how you can help and cast judgements at the same time. I know I wouldn't be inclined to help someone who I thought was a bad person for doing this or that.

Anyway, judging and forgiveness is what I am focusing on. I see the act of judging as embracing the ego. As if we are somehow better than those we are judging.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2019 12:04 PM by worldwidetraveler.)
06-10-2019 12:00 PM
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #733
RE: The God pill
My journey was essentially Red Pill, Black Pill, MGTOW, God Pill during the last 15 years. Thanks to MGTOW I spared myself the fornication stage and did seek answers in solitude instead.

On Pentecost I got baptized (by full submersion). Now my life is complete. Smile
06-10-2019 12:01 PM
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Tail Gunner Offline
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Post: #734
RE: The God pill
(06-10-2019 12:00 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 11:52 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  You have every right and, in fact, a duty to judge the actions of others. God's people (and the Church) have a duty to hold each other accountable for their actions according to the standards espoused in the Bible. I wrote about that issue in a previous post.

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-72750...pid1967678

Obviously, you will want to study the scriptures first, so that you know that you are correct before judging the actions of others.

I will have to respectfully disagree with your view on this Tail Gunner. I think we can help more people by not judging than to cast them out if they don't play by a set of rules. In fact, I don't know how you can help and cast judgements at the same time. I know I wouldn't be inclined to help someone who I thought was a bad person for doing this or that.

Anyway, judging and forgiveness is what I am focusing on.

You may have misunderstood me. You obviously want the sinners in the church. The church is not a country club for the godly. Otherwise, you are simply back to the days of the Pharisees.

Obviously, everyone sins. On the other hand, the church must also have standards -- and those standards are clearly cited in scripture. For example, you cannot have unrepentant sinners (i.e., those who have no intention of changing from their sinful ways) corrupting the congregation. That would include unrepentant homosexuals, people living together out-of-wedlock, just to name a few. In the case of the Corinthians, it was a church member who had an adulterous affair with his step-mother. That is the category to which I referred. Paul taught that the church elders cannot allow such unrepentant sinners to corrupt the church.

On the other hand, anyone struggling to overcome their sins should be embraced and helped by the congregation. There is no reason to judge them, because they are already in church and striving for redemption. This is the type of discernment that you learn as you study the scripture.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2019 12:17 PM by Tail Gunner.)
06-10-2019 12:11 PM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #735
RE: The God pill
(06-09-2019 11:00 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  
(06-09-2019 08:04 PM)scorpion Wrote:  This anti-Protestant invective you and Aurini are spewing needs to be nipped in the bud for the health of the forum going forward. Despite what your Catholic mysticism may lead you to believe, you do not have a monopoly on Jesus Christ, and the arrogant insinuation of such is not only incredibly divisive to the forum, but actively harms our ability to share the gospel message with men who need to hear it.

[Accuses another denomination of their own denominations sins]

I won't apologise for speaking simple spiritual truth: it's not preaching hate to recognize opposing teachings. The idea that 'all faiths lead to God' is what is currently-being pushed by the World. If it triggers you, then man up.

Hmm.

Something is wrong around the edges.

If you believe you are truly-following the teachings of Jesus, then I suggest this:

1) Sincerely and humbly approach the Blessed Mother, and ask her to reveal the truth about yourself that you're not seeing.

2) Then pray the Seven Sorrows devotion.

3) Wait for a day or two. I'd perhaps suggest going back to reading anything you wrote between 2014-2016 on, say, Muslim Immigration. Maybe follow where you're led.

4) Contemplate your words. Keep the gospels handy, and use them if you're instinctively-drawn to do so.

5) The veil being lifted is a very uncomfortable process - it can threaten to shatter your entire worldview - so be prepared.

Why would a Protestant pray to Mary?

“The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents.”

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06-10-2019 12:35 PM
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Wutang Offline
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Post: #736
RE: The God pill
I had an experience yesterday that's making me thinking of the conversation on how important working out sound doctrine is vs living the faith and how the former sometimes can lead to divisions, whether these divisions might be necessary or not.

I visited a Pentacostal church yesterday with a few friends. The congregation was Hispanic and Afro-Caribbean so there was a lot of screaming, shouting, and spontaneous behavior. Towards the end we were invited up and they were trying to get us to speak in tongues. With my friends they were even tapping them on the mouth to get them to try and do so.

When we went back to our seats we were approached by the different members of the church and asked if we were baptized. We all were and we talked about what was done during our baptisms and the church people were asking if we were baptized in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost or whether it was in the name of Jesus.

What followed was a mini-lecture on how it's important to be baptized in the name of Jesus and how when other churches quote what Christ said at the end of the Book of Matthew about baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost how those three things were only the three roles of God. This was followed by lots of references to various parts of the Old Testament.

I knew there's a number of Pentacostals that don't believe in the Trinity and I was getting the feeling they were among that so I asked if they believed in the Trinity and the answer we got was no followed by an explanation of how the Trinity never existed in the early church and was only codified in the time of Constantine and that the Trinity is actually taken from various Pagan religions, which each had an idea of a triune god. One of the members asked me what day I was free later that week cause it was important that this was spelled out since salvation hinges on it.

The whole made me wonder how important it is to have the right idea on these sort of theological concepts: not just the Trinity but stuff like predestination and such. I can't imagine that during the Last Judgement that God is going to have a checklist of various theological doctrines that he's make sure you're on the right page on before allowing you access to heaven. If you look at the stories such as the Sheep and the Goats, the way the judgement proceeds is very different.
06-10-2019 12:59 PM
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Jones Offline
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Post: #737
RE: The God pill
Yeah I think it's more about strengthening your soul and faith through praying and reading, accepting Jesus Christ as your saviour, knowing the Father, living a good Christian life as part of a Christian community - then if you believe in the Trinity and who knows how many other theological concepts received through faith in the Father, or read into from the bible like speaking in tongues.

Speaking of speaking in tongues - a relatively recent denomination of Protestantism is Pentecost. I've been to a few Pentecost churches, what you say they said checks out - I'm not with Christ while singing Hillsong music - haven't spoke in tongues yet, but I'm not entirely sold on that practice.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2019 04:20 PM by Jones.)
06-10-2019 04:18 PM
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ThriceLazarus Offline
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Post: #738
RE: The God pill
@TailGunner and WorldWideTraveler

Personally, I prescribe to TailGunner’s take. WWT, that road leads to what the buddhists call ‘idiot compassion’ - like giving a fiver to a junkie methed out on Skid Row.

“Love thy neighbor as thy Self.”

I love myself. When I screw up, when I know I screwed up, I judge myself. I make amends and forgive myself.

Treat others the way you would want to be treated.

If I was rushing toward the edge of a cliff I would hope that someone with Wisdom would give me pause before hurtling to my death.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2019 04:33 PM by ThriceLazarus.)
06-10-2019 04:32 PM
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worldwidetraveler Offline
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Post: #739
RE: The God pill
(06-10-2019 04:32 PM)ThriceLazarus Wrote:  @TailGunner and WorldWideTraveler

Personally, I prescribe to TailGunner’s take. WWT, that road leads to what the buddhists call ‘idiot compassion’ - like giving a fiver to a junkie methed out on Skid Row.

“Love thy neighbor as thy Self.”

I love myself. When I screw up, when I know I screwed up, I judge myself. I make amends and forgive myself.

Treat others the way you would want to be treated.

If I was rushing toward the edge of a cliff I would hope that someone with Wisdom would give me pause before hurtling to my death.

Not judging is not the same as enabling a drug addict. It's pretty easy to not enable a drug addict and still think that under the right circumstances it could have been you in that position.

I am a firm believer in cutting people out of your life it they pose a detriment to your happiness. You don't do it out of anger. You don't do it because you think the person is a idiot.

You do it because that other person needs to follow their own path and the one they are on is not compatible with your own. That isn't what I consider judging someone.

Like I said previously, the why we do something matters.

Quote:I love myself. When I screw up, when I know I screwed up, I judge myself. I make amends and forgive myself.

I think you will find the one that will judge you the harshest will be yourself. That is good you are able to forgive yourself. It took me some time to do the same. I found being able to do so is necessary if I ever wanted to feel happy and at peace.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2019 05:08 PM by worldwidetraveler.)
06-10-2019 04:56 PM
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ThriceLazarus Offline
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Post: #740
RE: The God pill
I agree with you wholeheartedly, Brother. Though I recognize that you are a rational man rather than an emotionally driven child. Without the faculty of reason, the prohibition of judgement becomes something like idiot compassion, or even worse, those tarts talking, “only God can judge me!”

“You don’t do it out of anger.”

Exactly. Judgement in anger is rarely just. The judging allows one to make a reasoned decision with regards to their Path. Hence cutting the negative from your life, rather than casting stones. Who is without sin? Perhaps One.

Though, personally, that judgement has less to do with happiness. For example, I live with and take care of my elderly grandmother. Pardon my French but she’s a right cunt - I’m the only one left in the family who bothers with her at all. Living here, I am not happy. However, I know that she won’t be rotting for days or weeks when she does pass because she’s alienated literally everyone else from her life.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2019 05:19 PM by ThriceLazarus.)
06-10-2019 05:14 PM
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Post: #741
RE: The God pill
(06-10-2019 05:14 PM)ThriceLazarus Wrote:  I agree with you wholeheartedly, Brother. Though I recognize that you are a rational man rather than an emotionally driven child. Without the faculty of reason, the prohibition of judgement becomes something like idiot compassion, or even worse, those tarts talking, “only God can judge me!”

“You don’t do it out of anger.”

Exactly. Judgement in anger is rarely just. The judging allows one to make a reasoned decision with regards to their Path. Hence cutting the negative from your life, rather than casting stones. Who is without sin? Perhaps One.

Though, personally, that judgement has less to do with happiness. For example, I live with and take care of my elderly grandmother. Pardon my French but she’s a right cunt - I’m the only one left in the family who bothers with her at all. Living here, I am not happy. However, I know that she won’t be rotting for days or weeks when she does pass because she’s alienated literally everyone else from her life.

Human judgment is a natural phenomena. I tell anyone who questions a visceral response from yours truly to something degenerate that what it basically is is a 'natural reaction to something unnatural.' A few times this has intensified the triggering of the sheep.

I suppose what you are doing is right up in the Christian sense, she is your family, your blood after all. Only honor is thicker than blood, and that is rarer to come by.

I think its best to walk in this world with thick skin, and to be able to take more judgment than one can give. Though its hard not to judge the cacophony of slime we share it with.
06-10-2019 09:15 PM
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Dr. Howard Away
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Post: #742
RE: The God pill
(06-10-2019 12:01 PM)wwtl Wrote:  My journey was essentially Red Pill, Black Pill, MGTOW, God Pill during the last 15 years. Thanks to MGTOW I spared myself the fornication stage and did seek answers in solitude instead.

On Pentecost I got baptized (by full submersion). Now my life is complete. Smile

Well congratulations! Welcome to the faith brother. Though I would disagree with the MGTOW philosophy, if it eventually led you to Christ, then better for it.

I hope that your faith and relationship with God continues to grow and when you feel mature enough you can share your testimony especially other MGTOW men, especially the black pillers.

To my other RVF brothers, this is a prime example of what I posted about and Worldwide Traveller has replied. This man posts that he has newly found salvation and confirmed it with baptism. He's no longer destined for hell but for the eternal glory of God, but no one before me has offered a congratulations, welcome or even a like on his post. You all just blew by it to continue your arguments with each other.

The decision to come to Christ was mine, but the growth of my faith came with the support of others. The great commission was not to argue among ourselves.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 05:18 AM by Dr. Howard.)
06-11-2019 05:07 AM
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Vladimir Poontang Offline
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Post: #743
RE: The God pill
I actually believe that Lucifer is the most high. High on crack.

That's not how we do things in Russia, comrade.

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06-11-2019 05:15 AM
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Dr. Howard Away
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Post: #744
RE: The God pill
(06-10-2019 12:11 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 12:00 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 11:52 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  You have every right and, in fact, a duty to judge the actions of others. God's people (and the Church) have a duty to hold each other accountable for their actions according to the standards espoused in the Bible. I wrote about that issue in a previous post.

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-72750...pid1967678

Obviously, you will want to study the scriptures first, so that you know that you are correct before judging the actions of others.

I will have to respectfully disagree with your view on this Tail Gunner. I think we can help more people by not judging than to cast them out if they don't play by a set of rules. In fact, I don't know how you can help and cast judgements at the same time. I know I wouldn't be inclined to help someone who I thought was a bad person for doing this or that.

Anyway, judging and forgiveness is what I am focusing on.

You may have misunderstood me. You obviously want the sinners in the church. The church is not a country club for the godly. Otherwise, you are simply back to the days of the Pharisees.

Obviously, everyone sins. On the other hand, the church must also have standards -- and those standards are clearly cited in scripture. For example, you cannot have unrepentant sinners (i.e., those who have no intention of changing from their sinful ways) corrupting the congregation. That would include unrepentant homosexuals, people living together out-of-wedlock, just to name a few. In the case of the Corinthians, it was a church member who had an adulterous affair with his step-mother. That is the category to which I referred. Paul taught that the church elders cannot allow such unrepentant sinners to corrupt the church.

On the other hand, anyone struggling to overcome their sins should be embraced and helped by the congregation. There is no reason to judge them, because they are already in church and striving for redemption. This is the type of discernment that you learn as you study the scripture.

Tailgunner, you've gotten down to more of what I meant by Churches embarrassing people into not wanting to come to church again.

Its a shaming of people for their ignorance rather than their sin. Its that catty nature of women shunning women especially. Its people who have finally worked up the will to walk into a church and kind of tuck themselves into the back row that are never welcomed or acknowledged by another church member. They were never welcomed or spoken too because they looked out of place, and won't get the courage to come back and try it again.

It takes a while to learn the 'routines' and 'codes' of a Church from the outside and can be intimidating. Being shunned, ignored, or frozen out for not knowing what to do or how to dress is more of what I have seen. Its not something so blatant that someone came to church drunk or showed up holding hands with their gay partner.

I will also put alot of the blame on women, who bring their usual antics into the congregation. Jealousy of a new hot girl, coveting a new good looking man, ignoring a new member that is an awkward man or woman. Using gossip as a weapon to preserve their status in the 2nd row center pew or tear down others.

With men, its more those who want to throw their weight around because they are big donors, or their family has been there for 27 generations, and they take offense with a pastor or new member's growing influence.

The people above are also the least likely to show up at anything that isn't a core church activity. Its mainly because they are really busy showing up and 'being seen' at every Wed, Sun morning and Sun evening service that they have no time left in their lives. This is why I recommend that someone who gets a bad taste for 'church' in their mouths but wants to continue to be a Christian volunteer or get involved with a Christian ministry. There are guys at my church that work in the prison ministry and homeless shelter downtown almost every sunday and I have never met them, the same with women who put in time in childcare downstairs. They just love on toddlers and babies and stay away from the 'mean girls' congregation upstairs. The prison ministry guys and the child care girls are all still living God's word and fellowshipping with other Christians.

That is what I recommend instead of staying home and just studying the bible by yourself.

@ World Wide Traveller - I plan to post about the 'church nerd' phenomena another time as I agree with you and its actually something that kept me away from Church for 20 years.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
06-11-2019 05:48 AM
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General Mayhem Offline
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RE: The God pill
(06-11-2019 05:48 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 12:11 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 12:00 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 11:52 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  You have every right and, in fact, a duty to judge the actions of others. God's people (and the Church) have a duty to hold each other accountable for their actions according to the standards espoused in the Bible. I wrote about that issue in a previous post.

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-72750...pid1967678

Obviously, you will want to study the scriptures first, so that you know that you are correct before judging the actions of others.

I will have to respectfully disagree with your view on this Tail Gunner. I think we can help more people by not judging than to cast them out if they don't play by a set of rules. In fact, I don't know how you can help and cast judgements at the same time. I know I wouldn't be inclined to help someone who I thought was a bad person for doing this or that.

Anyway, judging and forgiveness is what I am focusing on.

You may have misunderstood me. You obviously want the sinners in the church. The church is not a country club for the godly. Otherwise, you are simply back to the days of the Pharisees.

Obviously, everyone sins. On the other hand, the church must also have standards -- and those standards are clearly cited in scripture. For example, you cannot have unrepentant sinners (i.e., those who have no intention of changing from their sinful ways) corrupting the congregation. That would include unrepentant homosexuals, people living together out-of-wedlock, just to name a few. In the case of the Corinthians, it was a church member who had an adulterous affair with his step-mother. That is the category to which I referred. Paul taught that the church elders cannot allow such unrepentant sinners to corrupt the church.

On the other hand, anyone struggling to overcome their sins should be embraced and helped by the congregation. There is no reason to judge them, because they are already in church and striving for redemption. This is the type of discernment that you learn as you study the scripture.

Tailgunner, you've gotten down to more of what I meant by Churches embarrassing people into not wanting to come to church again.

Its a shaming of people for their ignorance rather than their sin. Its that catty nature of women shunning women especially. Its people who have finally worked up the will to walk into a church and kind of tuck themselves into the back row that are never welcomed or acknowledged by another church member. They were never welcomed or spoken too because they looked out of place, and won't get the courage to come back and try it again.

It takes a while to learn the 'routines' and 'codes' of a Church from the outside and can be intimidating. Being shunned, ignored, or frozen out for not knowing what to do or how to dress is more of what I have seen. Its not something so blatant that someone came to church drunk or showed up holding hands with their gay partner.

I will also put alot of the blame on women, who bring their usual antics into the congregation. Jealousy of a new hot girl, coveting a new good looking man, ignoring a new member that is an awkward man or woman. Using gossip as a weapon to preserve their status in the 2nd row center pew or tear down others.

With men, its more those who want to throw their weight around because they are big donors, or their family has been there for 27 generations, and they take offense with a pastor or new member's growing influence.

The people above are also the least likely to show up at anything that isn't a core church activity. Its mainly because they are really busy showing up and 'being seen' at every Wed, Sun morning and Sun evening service that they have no time left in their lives. This is why I recommend that someone who gets a bad taste for 'church' in their mouths but wants to continue to be a Christian volunteer or get involved with a Christian ministry. There are guys at my church that work in the prison ministry and homeless shelter downtown almost every sunday and I have never met them, the same with women who put in time in childcare downstairs. They just love on toddlers and babies and stay away from the 'mean girls' congregation upstairs. The prison ministry guys and the child care girls are all still living God's word and fellowshipping with other Christians.

That is what I recommend instead of staying home and just studying the bible by yourself.

@ World Wide Traveller - I plan to post about the 'church nerd' phenomena another time as I agree with you and its actually something that kept me away from Church for 20 years.

I will admit, those of us who grew up in the church have a much easier time coming back to it than others starting from nothing.

Looking forward to your thoughts on the church nerds. What I didn't mention in my post earlier is that I think it is mostly due to poor leadership and a lack of solid role models.

Looking back, the more prominent men in church didn't inspire anyone to follow their lead. They all seemed nerdy, out of shape, poorly dressed, etc. Kids will naturally gravitate away from that when presented with so many charismatic alternatives outside the church.
06-11-2019 10:14 AM
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RE: The God pill
(06-11-2019 10:14 AM)General Mayhem Wrote:  Looking back, the more prominent men in church didn't inspire anyone to follow their lead. They all seemed nerdy, out of shape, poorly dressed, etc. Kids will naturally gravitate away from that when presented with so many charismatic alternatives outside the church.

You must carefully choose a church just as carefully as you choose your friends. My last church contained men who organized rescues at abortion clinics, organized proselytizing at gay pride parades, and took over a local school board when it added programs to advance the homosexual agenda.

One church elder, a former military officer, formed an organization to educate the public about the dangers of Islam. You need to find a church run by real men who look outward at society and how to impact the culture in the name of Christ, not just inward (as if the church were some type of country club).

Jesus Christ's last command, known as The Great Commission, was to look outward at the world -- and to change it:

Quote:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Matthew 28:16-20

Church leadership, especially by the lead pastor, is critical. Too many pastors will actively thwart such activities out of fear of division in the church, etc.

I admit that such churches are rare, but you can find them.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 10:50 AM by Tail Gunner.)
06-11-2019 10:36 AM
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RE: The God pill
(06-09-2019 08:04 PM)scorpion Wrote:  This anti-Protestant invective you and Aurini are spewing needs to be nipped in the bud for the health of the forum going forward. Despite what your Catholic mysticism may lead you to believe, you do not have a monopoly on Jesus Christ, and the arrogant insinuation of such is not only incredibly divisive to the forum, but actively harms our ability to share the gospel message with men who need to hear it.

I am simply saying what I have experienced. I initially sought to embrace all other Christians as brothers, but hard experience has shown me that the most righteous Protestants are those who are the least Protestant; those who know the least about their faith, and simply try and love God and neighbour. Those who embrace the identity the strongest inevitably build up theological barriers to holiness. They justify all their wicked actions as being ordained by God. They fail to show the inner graces, merely following the virtues of the material world, often to the point of pride. Many of them have a chip on their shoulder; they seem to get angry at holiness, "How dare you say you're any holier than me? We're all equal!"

Given that there's no rational justification for splitting the church, let alone theological, especially considering all the bloodshed which followed, leading up to the current dissolution of society - I think maintaining a Protestant faith requires rejection of Logos. Any honest investigation will lead you away from Protestantism; but that said, I don't find that Protestants are particularly honest. They seem far more concerned with how things are perceived.

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06-11-2019 11:40 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #748
RE: The God pill
(06-10-2019 06:12 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 05:01 AM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  Why does everything have to be so complicated? Do your best and talk to God, that's it.

Right, follow the Gospels according to Jesus and you will be good to go. One of the problems I see with religion is the shaming and the fear used on people. Context matters and why a person does something matter. Behaving a certain way because you're afraid of going to hell is much different to doing something because you want to do it and believe it is the right thing to do.

In response to both posts here and on what seems to be a matter of Protestantism v Catholicism, isn't the whole degeneracy of the Protestant churches simply an extension of the idea that men can simply feel their way to doing the right thing?

At what age were any of us indoctrinated into accepting that gays were the same as the rest of us and that there should be no barriers to them being fathers, scout leaders, politicians and even priests?

How long did it take to feel your way to the truth that this was a bad idea?

How far would you get if your congregation was still on the POZ?

How much spiritual damage would you inflict by spreading this POZ during the time between your initial indoctrination and the time you reached the truth by yourself, if in fact you ever did?

Isn't Protestantism simply an endless year zero clean slate "let's take a fresh look at Bible with our new 2019 POZ filters" clown show? A church isn't just meant to be a place where you study the Bible and listen to a sermon and have afternoon tea. It's supposed to be an institution with centuries of collective wisdom that spans far beyond the initial book and reaches out into a lifestyle that has been proven to contribute toward the greater good of its people for many, many generations.

I'm not highly versed in these matters but Protestantism seems to be like the kid that leaves home at 16 and decides that his long line of family traditions are all nonsense, and that he's going to start from scratch because nothing is more powerful and precise than his (infantile) ability to discern the truth for himself.

Isn't that how you get to fags and women in the priesthood?

Granted you can point to pedophiles in the Catholic Church but at least when they're caught the rank and file recoil and are disgusted by their evil deeds. On the other hand Prots faced with a fag or a female priest have no recourse except to leave, and indications seem to be that it's only a matter of time before they have nowhere left to go, simply because if you refuse to concede to centuries of tradition and fall into the false belief that you can grapple with these immense social and spiritual issues fresh from generation to generation with nothing but the Bible to guide you then all you're going to end up with is Year 20XX Christianity, which will only ever be a marginally less POZzed version of Year 20xx Atheism.

Honest analysis from an outsider FWIW.

p.s. Afterthought. Imagine trying to run a military if every 50 years you had to to start from scratch with nothing but a copy of Sun Tzu's Art Of War "because that's all you should ever need".

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 12:59 PM by Leonard D Neubache.)
06-11-2019 12:40 PM
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RE: The God pill
Got baptized into a church yesterday. My girlfriend of 2 years (on and off) broke up with me. She acted like she was madly in love with me even when we were broken up for a week or two here and there.

But when she found out I got baptized behind her back she exploded, got all her shit, and took off.

Satan?

PapayaTapper Wrote:you seem to have a penchant for sticking your dick in high drama retarded trash.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 01:18 PM by Tex.)
06-11-2019 01:17 PM
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RE: The God pill
(06-11-2019 12:40 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Imagine trying to run a military if every 50 years you had to to start from scratch with nothing but a copy of Sun Tzu's Art Of War "because that's all you should ever need".

Uh . . . if the book was written by the omnipotent Lord and Master of all the universe, then yes -- that is all that you will ever need. If you believe that the bible is the inspired ("God-breathed") word of God, then you will trust that He has provided everything that you need to know in his holy scripture.

Quote:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The bible says that it will leave you "thoroughly equipped." Either you take God at His word -- or you do not.

What is more likely? That God, who cannot err, will lead you astray when He says that the bible will leave you "thoroughly equipped" -- or that the subsequent writings and teachings of man will lead you astray?

I have nothing against the great Catholic philosophers and theologians. There is a great deal of wisdom there. But everything that you truly need is contained in the bible.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 01:24 PM by Tail Gunner.)
06-11-2019 01:23 PM
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