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Troubleshooting Game in Chartered Groups
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Checkmat Offline
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Troubleshooting Game in Chartered Groups
Troubleshooting Game in Chartered Vacation Groups

[Image: 03-beaches.jpg]

This is a post I've been meaning to create for months, ever since I came back from two chartered vacations in late 2018.

Both of these vacations were organized through different booking agencies, and had separate themes. They weren't specifically organized around being single or hooking up, but more about the hobby or location that it was being organized around. One of the groups had about a 50/50 gender split while the other was more like 75/25, male.

In this post I want to share my experiences with the groups and look to get some feedback on how to game better in these types of environments in the future.

Trip 1

This trip was an older, geekier crowd going abroad to an exotic location. I think we had 40 people in the group, with a 50/50 split in gender although 3 of the girls were lesbians and several were married, most were unbangable 4's and there was one 7 and a few 6's.

On the guys' side, I was the most muscular dude followed by an ammy MMA fighter with tight game and a yoga, hippy guy who also had really solid game. Looks-wise I'm about a 7.

I started talking to some of the girls while we met at the airport, just getting to know you chit-chat. I was in line with one of the 6's and we chatted a little and I joked a bit. At this point I was feeling kind of nervous because I knew that if I fucked up, I was stuck on this trip for a whole week with this group. Way more nervous than a typical cold approach where I won't see them again. I also developed a little rapport with a different 6, a tall manager at a big retail store.

During the getting-to-know-each-other game we did while waiting for the plane, I dropped some bait about me (I was the only military veteran in the group and one of the 5's talked to me a bunch about my BJJ experience). Then we all got on the plane for a verrry long flight. I was sitting next to one of the lesbians and a 5. We hardly spoke because I wasn't interested in the 5 and I wanted to rest and watch movies.

I'm going to give a total synopsis on the trip now. Once we arrived we were nonstop touring places and taking long drives on a charter bus. Within 24hrs I noticed that several people had paired up already and were "couples". The yoga dude paired up with one of the 6's and they were sitting in front of me on the bus, flirting and basically on a date. The MMA dude paired up with a skanky 6 and they were physically lying around on each other like they had been dating for years. And the 7 got scooped up by one of the dorkiest dudes on the trip! I couldn't believe it.

Over the course of the trip I approached a couple of the 6's and chatted with them while we hiked, or waited for a program to begin. The tall girl was receptive and we got to know each other a little bit, and I also had a 30-40 minute convo with a different 6. But here was my major issue: throughout the entire week, I was the one who would initiate these convos almost every time. So for instance, on Monday I might start a convo with one of the 6's, we'd talk a bit, then after the convo I'd wait to see if she would approach me to reengage at any point. And they never fucking did! So I didn't want to come across as creepy or needy so I wouldn't reengage either. And I watched as ALL of the 6's paired off with other guys over the trip! One of them was with the tour guide, another was with a mystery man but I was told she was with "someone" in the group.

Trip 2

This one was 75/25 male but the girls here were way better looking. Most of them were 7's with a couple of 6's sprinkled in and one lesbian. We also did more physical stuff like hitting the beach and martial arts.

The first night we all go out to dinner and nobody knows each other yet. As we walk into the restaurant I start chatting with one of the 7's in our group. We develop a snarky rapport where we both bust on each other and have given each other nicknames based on the cities we are from. She sits next to me at dinner and while everyone is talking to everyone, we talk off and on over 90 minutes, but she seems to be drifting away a bit so I back off too. She made a few comments over the course of dinner but we didn't really get into a full-on convo again. Over the course of the rest of the trip, she does not re-engage me and I don't approach her again either.

At the beach I started talking to one of the 7's while we tackled waves. Some of the dudes were around us at first, but they all left and the convo quickly became just the two of us chatting for 45 minutes. I did some kino touches on the elbow to make a joke or emphasize a point and she was smiling and happy to be chatting with me. She didn't ask a TON of personal questions but she did ask some. Then the group got ready to leave and we walked and talked together out to the group jeeps, until she went to the jeep she came with and I went with my own. So again, after this interaction I did NOT approach her again later that night. I wanted to see if she would approach me to continue the convo or show some interest. She did not, and in fact over the course of the rest of the trip she did not start another convo with me at all. I think I made one or two comments to her about something but we never had a convo like that first one-on-one again.

A second girl, a tall, young 7 model, I started chatting with at a group dinner one night. We are both Jewish so we talked about that a lot, made jokes etc but I dropped the fact that I had a girlfriend for some stupid reason. After dinner we all go back to the hotel and I'm chilling in a hammock solo, she kind of wanders over and re-engages me about how she loves hammocks. So we chat for a minute or two with her standing and me lying in the hammock. Then I get up and we sit at a table with benches, like an instant-date. She is turned all the way facing me as we sit next to each other on the bench. So I half way turn to face her too and touch her bare thighs a few times to make points or when joking. Her eye contact and involvement was good, but she talked a lot about her ex-bf who she broke up with recently. I tried to turn the convo sexual but she balked at that and said she doesn't share that information. I felt like I was in the friend-zone at this point so I wrapped up the convo feeling blue-balled and went to bed.

Last one was on our last night we had dinner on the beach on blankets. I actually ate and chatted with one of the older dudes there who had an interesting life story so I was happy to chill with him over dinner. After that I noticed most of the girls were already in groups talking with people except for one of our female tour guides, a very large 6. She was chilling off on her own she I asked her about why one of our group members went home early, then we stood around and chatted for about 30 minutes. Talked about our personal lives, jobs etc and goals. She said she had a boyfriend back home. Then we talked about aviation a bit and she tried to download an app that shows you what airplane flights are in the sky, but the internet sucked so she could not. No kino or anything but her eye contact was very strong and I felt a bit of a vibe. We were standing on the beach for the duration of the convo. Didn't know how to move the ball upfield so dinner wrapped up and we went back separately.

On this trip there was not much hooking up that I saw, except for one of the more attractive 7's hooked up with one of the local guys.

Analysis

Just writing this out makes me think that my major mistake was not re-approaching girls. I would have an initial good convo, and then think "well if she is really into me, she will approach me if she wants to chat again. I need to be cool, sit back and wait for the bitches to come to me". This did not happen, obviously. So I think I should have just been the aggressor, put my pride aside and re-engaged them.

My problem with this is, how much is too much? How do I do that without being the annoying guy who keeps approaching them? My biggest fear was the girls thinking, "jesus why does this guy keep talking to me. Oh no he is starting another convo with me..." I realize this sounds pretty autistic.

Any other feedback from the forum would be great. I've been thinking about this for months and trying to figure out how to correct my behavior.

"There's no such thing as different but equal." -Dante Nero
04-12-2019 05:02 PM
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RE: Troubleshooting Game in Chartered Groups
Its a common theme i see around here. Guys are more interested in spotting girls disinterest before she rejects them than they are at pushing the interaction.

Youre not gonna get a cookie if you guess right that she hates you. Push the interaction and let her say no.

Not to say you shouldnt be socially calibrated but playing these waiting games to see if she will re-engage and stuff, youre leveling yourself.

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04-12-2019 06:49 PM
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RE: Troubleshooting Game in Chartered Groups
(04-12-2019 06:49 PM)Beirut Wrote:  Its a common theme i see around here. Guys are more interested in spotting girls disinterest before she rejects them than they are at pushing the interaction.

Youre not gonna get a cookie if you guess right that she hates you. Push the interaction and let her say no.

Not to say you shouldnt be socially calibrated but playing these waiting games to see if she will re-engage and stuff, youre leveling yourself.

Yes, Beirut. But the OP question is when should he stop and when should he push for more ? He doesn't disagree with the principle. He just doesn't know how to apply.
I am in the same boat as him
04-12-2019 06:59 PM
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RE: Troubleshooting Game in Chartered Groups
Well it's not like there is a universal sign to keep pushing, you just have to read body language which comes through repetition and pushing more.

A few thoughts:

1) You fucked up by ignoring the 5. What you did made you seem antisocial and unfun. Girls notice this

2) On these type of things, girls like to be free, fun, and unjudged. By distancing yourself and waiting for them to approach you violated all three of these items by being "too cool".

3) Women pick very fast. If you didnt have a solid prospect within the first day or few hours, you had a major uphill battle. The longer you go without being "chose", the more you lose preselection status and come off as a loser

4) If you approach from more of a let's have fun and do cool stuff vibe versus an I like you vibe, it will come off as more natural, less needy, and more free flowing. Then you dont have to worry about being so persistent, you are just being upbeat and positive and women naturally follow that kind of thing.

Mysterious stranger vibe is NOT what to do here. I guess it can work, but it's not optimal.
04-12-2019 07:41 PM
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RE: Troubleshooting Game in Chartered Groups
(04-12-2019 06:59 PM)Anchor Man Wrote:  
(04-12-2019 06:49 PM)Beirut Wrote:  Its a common theme i see around here. Guys are more interested in spotting girls disinterest before she rejects them than they are at pushing the interaction.

Youre not gonna get a cookie if you guess right that she hates you. Push the interaction and let her say no.

Not to say you shouldnt be socially calibrated but playing these waiting games to see if she will re-engage and stuff, youre leveling yourself.

Yes, Beirut. But the OP question is when should he stop and when should he push for more ? He doesn't disagree with the principle. He just doesn't know how to apply.
I am in the same boat as him

Stop when she gives you a reason to.

If you're at a stage where you are thinking she might re-engage you, then she hasnt really rejected/shown disinterest has she, right?

You're still in that maybe zone (at least in your head).


if a girl stays in the ocean with me 45 minutes ALONE on some exotic trip, im gonna push the interaction. She can blow me off in the water and ill go play with the turtles

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04-13-2019 06:51 AM
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RE: Troubleshooting Game in Chartered Groups
(04-12-2019 07:41 PM)Repo Wrote:  Well it's not like there is a universal sign to keep pushing, you just have to read body language which comes through repetition and pushing more.

A few thoughts:

1) You fucked up by ignoring the 5. What you did made you seem antisocial and unfun. Girls notice this

2) On these type of things, girls like to be free, fun, and unjudged. By distancing yourself and waiting for them to approach you violated all three of these items by being "too cool".

3) Women pick very fast. If you didnt have a solid prospect within the first day or few hours, you had a major uphill battle. The longer you go without being "chose", the more you lose preselection status and come off as a loser

4) If you approach from more of a let's have fun and do cool stuff vibe versus an I like you vibe, it will come off as more natural, less needy, and more free flowing. Then you dont have to worry about being so persistent, you are just being upbeat and positive and women naturally follow that kind of thing.

Mysterious stranger vibe is NOT what to do here. I guess it can work, but it's not optimal.

1) True. My excuse was I'm an introvert and find it hard to maintain a social vibe for very long. I can do fine on dates, but after being up for 24hrs then being on a 12hr flight, followed directly by a full day of touring a city...I just said fuck it I can't do it. But you're right, it set me up for failure in a big way right off the bat. I should I have bullshitted with the 5 and/or moved around the plane talking to other people, including the lesbian.

2) So I should never expect them to approach me? My thinking was, If I am always the one starting convos and initiating with the girls on the trip, then they are not into me. If they are into me then they will make more of an effort. How would you think about that?

3) Yeah I can see that. It seemed like everyone paired up very quickly.

4) So the attitude should have been more about having fun, probably with everyone, including 4's and obviously the other guys.

///

So what do you think about Trip 2? I was approaching on the first night there and developing rapport but it seemed to fizzle out quickly. With the tall model she was the only one to re-engage me but I think she just has a bubbly personality and wanted to be friends. She even has been messaging me months after the trip (we live in different countries, other side of the world) during Christmas and stuff like that. But the convo is always just bullshitting about stuff, definitely a friend-ish type of deal.

"There's no such thing as different but equal." -Dante Nero
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2019 02:07 PM by Checkmat.)
04-13-2019 02:05 PM
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RE: Troubleshooting Game in Chartered Groups
(04-13-2019 06:51 AM)Beirut Wrote:  [quote='Anchor Man' pid='1964825' dateline='1555113557']
[quote='Beirut' pid='1964823' dateline='1555112961']

if a girl stays in the ocean with me 45 minutes ALONE on some exotic trip, im gonna push the interaction. She can blow me off in the water and ill go play with the turtles

So what would you have done when everyone went back to their separate jeeps? I didn't see her again until we were all back at the hotel, then we all re-convened for dinner but she was at a different table far away from me, went in a different car etc.

On a separate occasion for an outing she was in my jeep but the dude next to her was chatting her up the entire time and she was giving him plenty of attention/conversation, so I was boxed out.

"There's no such thing as different but equal." -Dante Nero
04-13-2019 02:09 PM
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RE: Troubleshooting Game in Chartered Groups
@Check

It's not that you should never expect them to approach you, just dont bother waiting till they do. You want to have fun, she came here for fun, so fuck it go approach and and let's do fun shit.

It's hard to say what went wrong on the second trip. First off the logistics sound worse. To me it doesnt sound like you made any fatal flaws, just need to keep working on improving your game. The last girl though, you said she gave you strong looks, and you were st the beach. . . .I would have said let's take a walk on the beach and then escalated physically from there. Go for the kiss, pull back, build tension, get her to the room. If she was chilling by her own she was trying to get taken.
04-13-2019 03:08 PM
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RE: Troubleshooting Game in Chartered Groups
"Its beautiful out tonight, let's take a walk" how is a girl on vacation gonna say no to that?
04-13-2019 03:11 PM
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RE: Troubleshooting Game in Chartered Groups
(04-13-2019 02:09 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  
(04-13-2019 06:51 AM)Beirut Wrote:  [quote='Anchor Man' pid='1964825' dateline='1555113557']
[quote='Beirut' pid='1964823' dateline='1555112961']

if a girl stays in the ocean with me 45 minutes ALONE on some exotic trip, im gonna push the interaction. She can blow me off in the water and ill go play with the turtles

So what would you have done when everyone went back to their separate jeeps? I didn't see her again until we were all back at the hotel, then we all re-convened for dinner but she was at a different table far away from me, went in a different car etc.

On a separate occasion for an outing she was in my jeep but the dude next to her was chatting her up the entire time and she was giving him plenty of attention/conversation, so I was boxed out.

Well i would have gotten my answer way before that. In the water. It doesnt get any more perfect than that. A girl alone with you on vacation in the ocean in swimsuits. Make your move right there.

I expect a girl who isnt interested in me to last maybe 2 minutes in a one on one conversation in that setting. Her pussy probably dried up waiting 45 mins for a move.


But, as played, heck man youre on vacation not prison. Just stand up and go to her wherever she is and chat her up and suggest something to do. I dunno what was around there but a swim, night out, walk as Repo said, anything...

How did you expect her to re-approach you? Shed have had to come to you right? So do that yourself.

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04-13-2019 05:40 PM
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RE: Troubleshooting Game in Chartered Groups
This is a very dope, niche area of game.

Yacht week in Croatia is a very big thing, and this is basically a yacht week like situation.

I’m extrapolating here, but this seems like a really cool arbitrage situation if let’s say you’re an expat in one of the countries where a trip like this goes.

I’m sure girls are doing it. Too many American Latinas I know who still go on trips Central and South America. There has to be a certain percentage of those from America that go to these places to be fucked by white tourists who mistake them as being “ethnic locals.”

Finally:

“Youre not gonna get a cookie if you guess right that she hates you. Push the interaction and let her say no.“

That is a great ego adjuster right there.
04-13-2019 07:14 PM
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RE: Troubleshooting Game in Chartered Groups
(04-13-2019 05:40 PM)Beirut Wrote:  
(04-13-2019 02:09 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  
(04-13-2019 06:51 AM)Beirut Wrote:  [quote='Anchor Man' pid='1964825' dateline='1555113557']
[quote='Beirut' pid='1964823' dateline='1555112961']

if a girl stays in the ocean with me 45 minutes ALONE on some exotic trip, im gonna push the interaction. She can blow me off in the water and ill go play with the turtles

So what would you have done when everyone went back to their separate jeeps? I didn't see her again until we were all back at the hotel, then we all re-convened for dinner but she was at a different table far away from me, went in a different car etc.

On a separate occasion for an outing she was in my jeep but the dude next to her was chatting her up the entire time and she was giving him plenty of attention/conversation, so I was boxed out.

Well i would have gotten my answer way before that. In the water. It doesnt get any more perfect than that. A girl alone with you on vacation in the ocean in swimsuits. Make your move right there.

I expect a girl who isnt interested in me to last maybe 2 minutes in a one on one conversation in that setting. Her pussy probably dried up waiting 45 mins for a move.

I mean...It was in the middle of the day, on the beach with half of our tour group on the shore or downstream in the water, stone cold sober. Remember, this wasn't a sexy-singles-hookup vacation group, it was for a specific hobby. I didn't get the vibe that she wanted me to make a move.

Aside from some light kino, I felt like that was as far as I could have taken that specific interaction. ...Which of course is why I didn't get any pussy.

Quote:But, as played, heck man youre on vacation not prison. Just stand up and go to her wherever she is and chat her up and suggest something to do. I dunno what was around there but a swim, night out, walk as Repo said, anything...

How did you expect her to re-approach you? Shed have had to come to you right? So do that yourself.


This I totally hear you on. That's specific action that I could have taken/can take in the future. Just walk up to her and say "lets take a walk down to the beach, the weather's perfect".

Sounds like being passive and expecting them to come to me was the wrong move. I should have been more assertive and actually tried more, instead of internally moping and getting down on myself for them not being interested enough to come talk to me on their own.

Probably also, on vacation girls like to be the "victims" of circumstance, and not the pursuer of a fling. So that she can say "well it just happened, he just kept coming up to me. I didn't even plan on hooking up with him but it just happened"

"There's no such thing as different but equal." -Dante Nero
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2019 11:57 PM by Checkmat.)
04-13-2019 11:56 PM
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