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Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
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Teutatis Offline
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Post: #176
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
(04-15-2019 05:58 PM)scorpion Wrote:  It is wise to remember that God works in mysterious ways...

If God works in mysterious ways how can you know what is that God intended? It's very presumptuous of you to think you know what are God's reasons and plans, actually you just sound like another prophet of the apocalypse, something horrible happens and it's because God wants to punish us sinners.
No, God didn't burn Notre Dame down to ignite any fire in the hearts of Christians to finally wake up and fight off the muslim poison or because Notre Dame became a tourist attraction and Christians aren't worshiping as they should, it was either an accident or a terror attack perpetrated by muslims or even west hating leftists.
04-15-2019 10:40 PM
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Post: #177
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
[Image: jHkmjIG.jpg]

[Image: D4OfneqWwAYSMp_?format=jpg&name=medium]

Even IF this tragedy was an accident those faces show exactly what we are against. See how the asian woman looks in horror because even tough it's not her culture she realizes the loss this means for humanity, while the muslim garbage smiles in the pleasure of seeing beauty, history and culture being destroyed. Why oh why have we allowed these ungrateful scum worms into the west?
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2019 10:52 PM by Teutatis.)
04-15-2019 10:49 PM
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Post: #178
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
(04-15-2019 09:49 PM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  Think about it. The cross of Christ still stands.

[Image: D4On1ErU4AA4YlR.jpg]

For me it's like a metaphor, an image of what France is today - or will be very soon, if nothing is done:

still somehow standing, still mainly Christian (and secretly proud of its Christian roots), but darkened, soiled, pillaged, its defenses broken and partially ravaged, with only remnants of its former glory.

Maybe God is sending through this image a last warning to France? "Look, you can still be saved but you are on the brink of extinction and maybe even Armaggedon; mend your ways and act now while there's still time!"
04-15-2019 10:53 PM
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Post: #179
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
(04-15-2019 10:40 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  
(04-15-2019 05:58 PM)scorpion Wrote:  It is wise to remember that God works in mysterious ways...

If God works in mysterious ways how can you know what is that God intended? It's very presumptuous of you to think you know what are God's reasons and plans, actually you just sound like another prophet of the apocalypse, something horrible happens and it's because God wants to punish us sinners.
No, God didn't burn Notre Dame down to ignite any fire in the hearts of Christians to finally wake up and fight off the muslim poison or because Notre Dame became a tourist attraction and Christians aren't worshiping as they should, it was either an accident or a terror attack perpetrated by muslims or even west hating leftists.

I think scorpion has the light burning through him. He is illuminated with it. A warm glow with it.

And you (no offence here) are still seeking, grasping, maybe not seeking or grasping at all. Just totally buried in that atheism of old.

I've noticed a pattern, when people are trying to bite their tongue: it is those that do not believe in God that are quicker to pounce and lay it on, rather than those that do believe in God, who are more laid back and don't jump on people for being 'heathens'.

I think I repped you a good while back Teutatis. I like you. I think you are a good poster.

You talk about being 'presumptuous', but do you not think it is a little 'presumptuous ' of you to decide what God himself does and does not approve of? If you do not know God yourself, how can you say what he does or does not approve of? Do you have a direct line? No, of course not. You do not know God at all. Yet you somehow know how he thinks.

Not playing games here Teutatis. But do you see the 'presumptuousness' of your post?

You claim that God does not exist. And that others can not know 'him', yet you speak for him and what he stands for.

This is more an argument for logic, and it's not meant to even be a serious argument. Certainly not a theological one. Others have done this one before and better I am sure.

it was either an accident or a terror attack perpetrated by muslims or even west hating leftists.


Well that narrows it down a bit. Talk about hedging you bets!

question

It most certainly was not an act of God!

(04-15-2019 05:58 PM)scorpion Wrote:  It is wise to remember that God works in mysterious ways...

We talk at cross-purposes with this word "God".

Can we not just meet each other half-way?

Please, try and reinterpret the words spoken.

That is if you want to.

By all means throw God to the ground. Piss on him, shit on him. The 'one' that does not exist. That is ok too. With 'our' God anyway. I speak as a non-believer. But one that has faith.

No harm will come to you for such beliefs. How could it?

I don't understand the deep faith men like scorpion and AB have. Or debeguiled. I'll admit it.

But at least try and suspend your disbelief for an hour or two to listen?

If you don't or won't, then that is ok too.

I don't think I'll ever find what I'm looking for. But that is a harder path to take rather than just dismissing it all out of hand. As you do.

You think what you want to think. You believe what you believe.

Above all else to your own self be true. I know you are. That is why I repped you a while back.

Just offering an alternative viewpoint. No reason to consider it on your part.
04-15-2019 11:09 PM
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Post: #180
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
(04-15-2019 10:49 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  [Image: jHkmjIG.jpg]

[Image: D4OfneqWwAYSMp_?format=jpg&name=medium]

Even IF this tragedy was an accident those faces show exactly what we are against. See how the asian woman looks in horror because even tough it's not her culture she realizes the loss this means for humanity, while the muslim garbage smiles in the pleasure of seeing beauty, history and culture being destroyed. Why oh why have we allowed these ungrateful scum worms into the west?

asian woman?

I don't see any 'asians' and I don't see any 'women' in that picture.

Did I miss something?
04-15-2019 11:12 PM
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Rocha Offline
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Post: #181
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
(04-15-2019 02:28 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  
(04-15-2019 01:57 PM)LEMONed IScream Wrote:  MONUMENTS CLAIM TERRITORY!

If you lose territory, you do not only lose thousands, you lose EVERYTHING, YOU CEASE TO EXIST!

You either die or you live in chains. There are "scores" of old cathedrals and we have MILLIONS of unnecessary humans in our countries.

Which would I sacrifice first? The death of thousands vs the death of a nation...

This Boomerposting, man... It's aggravating.

Obviously you never knew anyone killed in an attack or disaster.

But if there's anyone who would know about losing territory, it would be a Portuguese.

You cracked me up with that one.

Not that I am particularly proud, but Portugal was the last colonial power to survive. And so far no muslims spreadind havoc around here.

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04-15-2019 11:24 PM
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Post: #182
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
The Portuguese were a power to be reckoned with.

In the ME country I grew up in there is still a 14th Century Fort that they built when they invaded and conquered. It's a tourist attraction now, but you can't help but be impressed.

The Portuguese are a breed again from the Spanish. I really love Portuguese people, but that is just my upbringing. They gave great love for us British and they got it back. That still stands.

Just like that 14th Century Fort.

And the fuckers know how to party too.

I lived amongst them and had one or two Portuguese girlfriends. Taught me to play guitar. Warm, friendly people with a great culture, not insular and xenophobic like some of their neighbours.

Still had their shitheads though, like any 'people'. But only to be expected.

They were serious shitlords way back when.
04-15-2019 11:56 PM
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Post: #183
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
Rigsby, the Chinese-looking woman in the front/left.
04-16-2019 12:20 AM
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Post: #184
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
Just saw this thread today. How this reached 8 pages in 24 hours is amazing. As an agnostic seeing a historic church like this burn is like seeing Stonehenge being torn down. You can replace it but it won't be easy. I hope nobody got hurt. And shame on those "refugees" apparently overjoyed.



Barring an extreme turn of event it might be too late to visit Europe generally speaking. I've never visited Europe and have no desire to unless I have some heavies with me. I remember Cernovich talking about rape gauntlets back in 2014. Even liberal Tim Pool talked about the no go zones of Sweden.

Now that I think of it and maybe someone can chime in but I was told no go zones have been prevalent in Europe since the 80s!! The decline may have been cooked while some of us were still in diapers!! Imagine that.

(04-15-2019 03:49 PM)redpillage Wrote:  Yeah that was me. I spent years posting in that thread, warning everyone what was to come. However nobody really gave a shit and late last year after some bullshit mod warning I decided that talking to a wall wasn't really worth my time.

Before I recede back into lurk mode let me repeat my original advice: Go to Europe visit as many cultural treasures as possible while you're there. The clock is ticking....



(04-15-2019 02:27 PM)TutorGuina Wrote:  That shit is fucking insane

I remember a poster in the migrant invasion thread years ago telling people to visit Europe while it exists, and he's turning out to be terrifyingly correct
I had the luck to visit Paris and this specific monument last year but the whole place was already degraded to the point I felt like it wasn't much better managed than Rio
Place was riddled with panhandlers, dirty streets and of course 3rd world muslims similar to the favela people from back home, but with addition of sectarian religious hatred

Honestly, comparing this with 9/11 is useless, one is an attack on the spiritual and cultural memory of a nation and religion, while the other was an attack on people and infrastructure
Both are bad in different ways, so chill out all of you, fighting over such a petty argument is quite a waste

(09-21-2018 09:31 AM)kosko Wrote:  For the folks who stay ignorant and hating and not improving their situation during these Trump years, it will be bleak and cold once the good times stop.
04-16-2019 12:22 AM
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Post: #185
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
(04-15-2019 07:01 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  Or I'll see an eagle soaring high above the graveyard by the Hill here, being attacked by a murder of crows, soaring on the breeze in stillness, not the slightest bit bothered by the annoyance, and immediately see the use of complete detachment from the furious distractions of the world.

Bizarrely, I made the exact same observation and wrote about it via pm to another member just the other day, except it was "a mob of screeching feminist cockatoos" He replied that crows often do the same thing where he's from.

(01-19-2016 11:26 PM)ordinaryleastsquared Wrote:  I stand by my analysis.
04-16-2019 12:26 AM
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Post: #186
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
This made my night. Damn too soon!!!

(04-15-2019 06:27 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  The internet has no chill
[Image: 3Gnw9yO.jpg]

(09-21-2018 09:31 AM)kosko Wrote:  For the folks who stay ignorant and hating and not improving their situation during these Trump years, it will be bleak and cold once the good times stop.
04-16-2019 12:36 AM
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Post: #187
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
I've been busy today but have been getting periodic updates from family members to let me know that Notre Dame is on fire. I've watched some of the video clips and read a few things but not a lot.

My (somewhat) educated opinion:

Old churches, university buildings, large assembly occupancies built before the 20th century are classified as Type IV Heavy Timber construction. That means that the exterior walls are made of a noncombustible material (brick or stone) and the interior support members are made of wood. When these get going they can burn for a long, long time because of such a heavy fire load.

Buildings that are under renovation are especially susceptible to fire. https://www.usfa.fema.gov/training/coffe...31919.html

The rule of thumb at a church fire is that you can choose to save the rose window or the roof but you are not going to save both. And it appears that here they lost both.
They may have been doing hot work (cutting torches or sweating copper) on the roof. I have not heard yet. But I have been to enough fires where roofers have accidentally started a fire to not rule it out so quickly.

The smoke that you saw emanating from the scene was thick and brown. That indicates that it was natural materials , i.e., wood burning. What we used to call clean smoke. Now, everything is made from petroleum and the smoke will be thick and black or a rainbow assortment of colors depending on what chemicals are burning. Neither the neighbors nor the firefighters will get sick or develop cancer from breathing it in.

Buildings like this are sprinklered nowadays and I am sure this one will be when it is rebuilt. But prior to incidents such as this, historical societies fight tooth and nail to preserve the structure. The cathedral stood for 800 years without a fire so why do they need a fire alarm system or sprinkler system now (sarcasm off). Designers and architects find them usnitely and consider them an unnecessary expense. We got lucky ten years ago. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29012800/ns/us...LVUrehKjIU

I heard there was a delay in the French Pompiers responding. Does anyone have anything concrete on that? When you arrive on scene and the building is fully involved...well, it becomes a water carnival and we "surround and drown." This being Notre Dame though, I am willing to bet a lot of those guys took chances that they would not ordinarily have taken. I understand most of the artwork had been removed from one section but I bet guys were going in to grab what they could save. This will be the defining moment of their careers and for many their lives.

I do find the timing...curious.
  • Start of Holy Week
  • One month since Christchurch Mosque Shooting
  • Knocks Julian Assange/ Mueller report out of the news
  • Other recent attacks on Catholic Churches

Area of Origin and Cause are what they need to be looking for now. Examine the structure from the area of least damage to most. I know it is hard to believe but you can often find the needle in the haystack if you can find your area of origin.

I was in Paris in 2007 and visited Notre Dame and lit a few candles for family members. I remember being shocked by the Muslims panhandling out front and even inside the Cathedral. I told the security guard and got the Gallic shrug in return.

I understand the anger and passion that such an act enflames. If either the Muslims did it or Globohomo, Inc did it and that comes to light the Norman will join the Saxon in starting to hate. The Ottomans used to toast to seeing themselves at the Red Apple (the Vatican) so maybe they do plan to turn it into a Mosque. They did it to the Sancta Sophia in Constantinople. Heck, I've seen them turn a number of churches in my area into mosques.

But as we are entering Holy Week I invite everyone to remember what Jesus said
"Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." I know he was referring to himself and not the temple in Jerusalem but I can't help but wonder how prophetic that reading is in relation to today's fire.
04-16-2019 12:38 AM
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Post: #188
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
How did our response to 9/11 turn out?

How did the Christchurch shootings turn out?

He whom the gods would destroy, they first make angry.

Keep calm and carry on. And go to church.

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04-16-2019 01:25 AM
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Post: #189
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
(04-15-2019 10:40 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  If God works in mysterious ways how can you know what is that God intended? It's very presumptuous of you to think you know what are God's reasons and plans, actually you just sound like another prophet of the apocalypse, something horrible happens and it's because God wants to punish us sinners.

It's the concept of Divine Omnipotence. God Wills everything: the mysterious nature of it means it won't make any obvious sense to our worldly judgement of what constitutes 'good' and 'evil', which is broken by concupiscence: we will always choose the comfortable evil of our passions - thereby becoming enslaved by them - rather than the uncomfortable good of denying them - freeing us from our state as their prisoner.

This means what appears to you to be Suffering is allowed by God under strict conditions because it offers you the best chance of achieving personal sanctification.

What did the Priest say this morning about the fire which struck me? "There can be no resurrection without death." What I understood in that simple sentence is knowing that the old self has to be consumed and burnt away to be replaced by the new man. A common scriptural analogy for our state of existence on this world is that we are tested and purified by fire. If you fail the test, by choose to stay enslaved by your passions, you are given over to the Devil as being his Lawful Property, with the standard pattern of existing as 'subjective reality; dead eyes; reeeing at the world; consumed by lust; trite, superficial concerns; inability to suffer; rejecting logos; sexual / physical / emotional disorder'. I've spent years on here thinking I was writing about Sociology and Psychology when I was just seeing Spiritual Reality.

You can easily detect these qualities in those who don't know the Father. The disorder spreads like rot. What you're seeing is a preview of the state of the soul in Hell.

So, say you see a Cathedral burning down as either an Evil Act or Random Chance. I see a Cathedral that only existed because God willed man to build it, which couldn't have been completed except for that He willed it, that only existed as long as it did to give Him glory, and that the destruction of which will somehow bring Him - not us - greater glory. The 'mysterious ways' simply means walking in faith until experience reveals His greater plan via Infused Knowledge: this is how you learn the virtue of Hope.

Understanding this is incredibly-freeing, because you come to discover that you're never put anywhere and given anything that can't be used for your personal sanctification in that moment, most of which is just a constant stream of little positive sacrifices that gradually refine your behaviour. I wrote a post somewhere in the Orthodox Thread about it.

You might dismiss it, but The Father showed me how to use this to repair both my Sigma Nature and my Melancholic Temperament, because He is Infinite Good, and will only ever show you Truth. I'm also repairing my mate Bill the same way - teaching him charity and mental discipline, which is contrary to what everyone on the forum said would happen - that he'd teach me to be a self-interested bad boy:

"I saw your point, you know? I don't have to start by going nuclear now. It gives me somewhere to work up to."

What is starting to happen in the same thing that happened to me: he's no longer consumed by certain people aggravating him at times. About eighteen months back, I gradually-theorized that Gamma and Sigma are just sexual polarities of the same innate dysfunction. The Father graced me to show me how to undo the dysfunction. He always wants to repair what is broken.

Bill is now starting to say, when people annoy him: "They are what they are." What you're increasingly-left with by operating like this is exactly what you are promised by Jesus: internal peace. Because He only speaks truth. So, a Cathedral can burn down, and I'll suddenly see that the Hedonistic, the Socialist, the Prot, the Atheist and Pagan alike are, effectively disturbed by the deep wrongness of the Societal Collapse they have all been effectively-advocating for, but not knowing how to process it - since they don't know The Father - they lash out randomly at any and every target.

I warned someone back in December that what God had effectively done for me over the last year was made me able to exist in a very harsh reality without retreating into fantasy constructs or dysfunctional-destroying myself as coping mechanisms. I can see an Icon of Western Civilization burn down, and not get upset, because what is coming will be much worse, and I'm prepared for the level of Suffering required that He wills for me. As such, he's repaired me to endure the times without going mad or giving up, and I suggest those who see the writing on the wall the way I have been: get under the protection of the Natural Law, because the societal disorder is accelerating very quickly.

If you need to discover your Primary Fault: pray to Our Lady Of Sorrows and ask her to reveal it. You'll know it when it happens, because it will be fully-delivered, and it is an undeniable, uncomfortable truth that you previously were unable to see about yourself. (I'm incredibly-proud of Aurini recently for facing what was revealed to him head on, because it's similarly-creating positive behavioural change in him, even though it initially would have appeared to him - as mine did - incredibly-frightening to confront).
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2019 01:51 AM by AnonymousBosch.)
04-16-2019 01:35 AM
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Post: #190
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1nAJEzvrOqAxL

Will Chamberlain is aptly pointing out the left and cucked Fox News is being nutty again by calling people conspiracy theorists for even speculating Notre Dame was burned down by an arsonist. Yes, he even points out migrants were celebrating Notre Dame burning.

I think we can all agree Macron should resign regardless of how the cathedral burned down.

(09-21-2018 09:31 AM)kosko Wrote:  For the folks who stay ignorant and hating and not improving their situation during these Trump years, it will be bleak and cold once the good times stop.
04-16-2019 01:52 AM
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Post: #191
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
Quote:To put it into perspective that building is 3.5 x older than the USA.
04-16-2019 02:05 AM
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Post: #192
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
(04-15-2019 06:08 PM)Horus Wrote:  The fire started at 6:50pm. According to Google, closing time is 6:45pm. That's a mighty coincidence.

I thought this too, but if you think about it, terrorists don't care who gets killed off in their acts.

Waiting until closing would seem merciful and doesn't make sense.

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04-16-2019 02:07 AM
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Post: #193
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
I will admit that the symbolism of this event is quite remarkable, but most of the people trying to extrapolate that symbolism into something about the return of religion or the awakening of the whites are prisoners of the moment. A tourist attraction is under renovation for the next however many years. Whoop de doo! The real tragedy has already been in motion for decades and even voicing dissent is practically a crime.

Europe will either break out into a horrible race war/reconquista or just become a Muzzie state. What will be lost in either scenario is the real tragedy. The arsonists of civilization are the worst criminals of all.
04-16-2019 02:12 AM
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Post: #194
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
Thinking a race war will save France when its the elites betraying it is uproariously funny.
04-16-2019 02:49 AM
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Post: #195
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
As a practicing catholic and native french person, I was really sad to see the images of Notre-Dame de Paris burning.
Sad is not even the right word, it's a mix of sadness, feeling of loss and despair.

Knowing what really happened and who did it is not even important. The jews, the muslims, the free-masons? We all know who rules them and it's Satan. He doesn't even need someone to physically start a fire, so it might be as they say, accidential. The truth is it's another attack from him, but only because God allows him.

France has been spiritually under attack for a long time now. The French Revolution, contrary to popular belief, is the take over of France by evil forces that have been working to undermine it ever since.
Seeing Notre-Dame burning is another step in that direction.

It also shows us that it is only the begining of even bigger trials for France and the world.

I read on here the anger and the will to fight. I've got it in me too seeing muslims rejoice all around France.
But it is not yet the time to act. At least not like some people suggest going crusade mode. Shit has not hit the fan yet.

The only thing you can do right now is preparing yourself physically, mentally and most importantly spiritually.

This event might actually be a wake up call for french people or maybe the start of a slow awakening. Many french people say they are atheists, but talking to them, I get the sense that it is not a deep rooted belief. For some it's just convienient following the herd, for others it is a grudge against God. You just need a little something to make them change and they will go back to the faith of their fathers.

All in all, Scorpion said it best, God works in mysterious ways and it might be a blessing in disguise.
04-16-2019 03:09 AM
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rockoman Offline
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Post: #196
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
(04-16-2019 02:07 AM)This Is Trouble Wrote:  
(04-15-2019 06:08 PM)Horus Wrote:  The fire started at 6:50pm. According to Google, closing time is 6:45pm. That's a mighty coincidence.

I thought this too, but if you think about it, terrorists don't care who gets killed off in their acts.

Waiting until closing would seem merciful and doesn't make sense.

It does make sense if you require a relative absence of people in order to start the fire.

Of course terrorists don't care if people die. However, the symbolic importance of the building far outweighs a few casualties in this case in terms of sociocultural impact.

Remember, on 9/11 the towers were struck at 8:46 and at 9:03 before most people had started work. If those responsible had waited just 30 minutes, then a multiple of the eventual 3000 would have died.

Even in the case of 9/11 symbolism was more important than casualties. If casualties are your priority as a terrorist, then you would go after critical infrastructure such as power stations, hospitals, schools, transport hubs.

Just to underline my point. If a terrorist shooting in a suburb of Paris yesterday had killed 15 people, would this thread be as long and intense as it is, or would we have treated it as 'just more of the same'?

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- V.S Naipaul 'A Bend in the river'
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2019 03:39 AM by rockoman.)
04-16-2019 03:25 AM
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Post: #197
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
(04-16-2019 03:25 AM)rockoman Wrote:  
(04-16-2019 02:07 AM)This Is Trouble Wrote:  
(04-15-2019 06:08 PM)Horus Wrote:  The fire started at 6:50pm. According to Google, closing time is 6:45pm. That's a mighty coincidence.

I thought this too, but if you think about it, terrorists don't care who gets killed off in their acts.

Waiting until closing would seem merciful and doesn't make sense.

It does make sense if you require a relative absence of people in order to start the fire.

Of course terrorists don't care if people die. However, the symbolic importance of the building far outweighs a few casualties in this case in terms of sociocultural impact.

Remember, on 9/11 the towers were struck at 8:46 and at 9:03 before most people had started work. If those responsible had waited just 30 minutes, then a multiple of the eventual 3000 would have died.

Even in the case of 9/11 symbolism was more important than casualties. If casualties are your priority as a terrorist, then you would go after critical infrastructure such as power stations, hospitals, schools, transport hubs.

Just to underline my point. If a terrorist shooting in a suburb of Paris yesterday had killed 15 people, would this thread be as long and intense as it is, or would we have treated it as 'just more of the same'?

Totally fair points there.

In light of that, it actually makes perfect sense to wait until just after closing. Assuming they don't actually get everyone out at closing time, it makes sense that just after closing time they are shuffling people out, it's a bit chaotic, security guards are preoccupied...

Perfect time to be able to blend in.

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04-16-2019 04:08 AM
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Richard Turpin Offline
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Post: #198
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
Strange run of emotions for me since the story broke. Last night on the news, watching the tower fall, I was just appalled. I definitely had that 9/11 and Bataclan feeling.

To wake up and hear that the 'structure is still intact' and to see the cross still standing among the ruins in that fantastic photo! Renewed hope and strength.

As an aside, when I read about the age of the church, it reminds me how lucky I am living in a part of England that literally has buildings as old or older all around me as I travel to work. My local village church is over 800 years old and we all just take it for granted.

Regarding restoration, we definitely don't have the skills anymore, but nevertheless we can still do a pretty convincing job of fixing these old buildings.

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04-16-2019 04:11 AM
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Post: #199
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
Stained glass window survived.

Paris prosecutor says that evidence is tending towards a work-related accident.

The fire was high up on the roof, where the scaffolding was, not something that started at ground level and climbed up.
As I said, a brazing ignition. Or possibly a fault in new wiring or equipment power supply. Or someone's lit Gauloise fell down on the roof timbers and smoldered. Or an ignition of solvents (eg acetone) being used on the job. We will see. Might never be clear, I wouldn't expect the guy who dropped the cigarette or was doing the brazing to fess up.
Maybe an "Act of God" as the term goes, and an opportunity to reverently rebuild and reconsecrate.

The initial hysteria, "this is worse than 9/11" "this is war" seems to have been wrong for several reasons.

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(This post was last modified: 04-16-2019 05:37 AM by Sp5.)
04-16-2019 05:20 AM
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Harem Scarem Offline
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Post: #200
RE: Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning
It is pointless to speculate right now. That said, I don't think it's conspiracy theorising to do so. The "renovation accident" line was there almost as soon as the news broke. How could they know that? There's probably not a lot of time for forensics when dealing with a burning roof. I would be very cautious about this either way and not accept any narrative as a given while the shock of the event itself is still raw.

More importantly, it's rarely ever just one thing. The spate of attacks on churches provides an important context even if there can never be proof of deliberate arson in this case. Shoddy workmanship by contractors either disinterested or hostile to the building they were working on is another possibility. It does not have to be a terrorist attack for it to have a broader social, political, and cultural context besides "Just an accident ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ".

Also, you have to be religious to believe this, but if so, nothing happens that is unforeseen by God. Whether a Satanist arsonist, an Islamist arsonist, or dozens of sloppy builders, none of them can act entirely autonomously. When I was an atheist, I believed that the course of events like this was purely coincidental. Now, I'm not so sure. There are hundreds of different strands of symbolism and significance to think of here, but I want to point out several layers that people should think about:

- The first and most obvious angle is divine punishment for a country that has to a large degree abandoned God and embraced the revolutionary spirit, where corrupt death-cultists are democratically voted into power, where people neglect their neighbours while inviting in their enemies from across the world, where people stand idly by as these enemies desecrate churches, where even religious services are sometimes a pale imitation of what they used to be (I don't know to what extent climate heresy and worship of immigrants exist in the French church, so I won't comment on that).
- But then the next layer of consciousness is that it is only the roof that has burnt down. There is a rich metaphor for society here: the roof of our society (the elite) is rotten to the core and easily flammable, but the foundations are not.
- Note how the chances of survival for the entire building were deemed slim last night, but by the coming of the dawn, it turned out that the structure was in fact saved and the cathedral did not burn down to the ground. In other words, the less likely, but more favourable turn of events eventually happened as the sun rose.
- Although I disagree with the veneration of relics, it is telling that they were saved, as was most of the other religious art in the building, apparently. One can agree or disagree with Catholic worship, but it is sincere on the part of the worshippers. The roof is gone but the cross remains. Again, I don't see this as coincidental.
- All our brilliant modern technology is utterly incapable of dealing with what is going on. Goolag's vaunted algorithms responded to this footage by automatically inserting the kind of texts that they want to use to "combat fake news", i.e. dispel even the slightest doubts about the official narrative of 9/11. It is no exaggeration to say that these people worship human-made technology. They carve a graven image of themselves and fall down in worship of it, but it can't even tell the difference between a burning spire today and two smoking office towers a decade ago, which the naked human eye can do instantly. How shitty and useless our creations are at times like this, compared to the elegantly made eyes that God gave us. These creations can't discern anything, whereas our eyes can look at a picture of the Notre Dame and instantly understand its beauty and significance, even for those who have never been there.

I used to be atheist and critical of Islam. If this had occurred a few years ago, I would have thought that this was undoubtedly the work of Jihadists and that mere physical retribution was called for, even against people who had nothing to do with it. Hundreds of churches attacked worldwide would not even have appeared on my radar, but I would have had an instant canned response for a high-profile case like this because it's impossible for the MSM not to cover it. But this would have meant being simply reactive in life, having nothing but strong emotional responses to current events, being led this way and that by my emotions, like a woman. Right now, the social and spiritual stakes are far too high to permit that to happen.

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04-16-2019 06:21 AM
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