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Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
I wrote a long post about this on the new rules thread but it seemed a bit salty at the time so I saved it to drafts. Then the thread got closed and apparently that means you can't access drafts for that thread anymore. Bummer.

Anyway, the shorthand is this. I suspect this thread and one other in a similar vein were strong factors in Roosh's decision to pull the trigger on loose talk about casual sex until liver spots start appearing. This forum has always been about the weight of evidence. Results talk and BS walks. But these two threads made it clear that even after multiple members were heading to 40 with huge notch counts and regretting not starting a family earlier (including to whatever extent the very founder of the forum) younger guys were simply not interested in the evidence.

You can't lead men into a brothel and ask them to choose monogamy. It just doesn't work.

When the consequences are way off in far-away land guys wont listen to the majority giving solid advice. They'll listen to the one guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who made it work (luck in love and genetics, but they don't want to hear that either). We even had guys saying "well look at Trump, he's doing just fine!" This kind of hamsterism is no different from feminist drivel about how a friend of a friend married a billionaire when she was 40 and had 5 healthy, happy kids. You can't convince a young man that he's ever going to get old. They all think that if they exercise and eat right and do the right TRT then they'll be doing kip-ups in the dojo when they're 70, and there's always one or two freaks in the whole wide world able to do it (often at immense hidden cost) that will validate their delusions.

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2019 11:45 PM by Leonard D Neubache.)
06-03-2019 11:45 PM
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Post: #102
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
I still don't want kids even at my age (30s). My girlfriend (34) is the same. I think its just not for everyone. I see kids everyday as a teacher, but love the fact I go home to a quiet house with my partner.

I guess its just different strokes for different folks.
06-04-2019 12:58 AM
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Post: #103
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
(06-03-2019 07:13 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  But do you know the real danger that all of these men have? My family friend has a first born son when he's 48. When that boy is 13, his dad is going to be 61, and likely won't have the energy to bond with him. When the boy hits early 20s and needs guidance on how to navigate the modern world, dad is going to be 70+, tired and can't keep up with what's going on.

We get the general idea, but I think you're overstating it a bit for age 60 with energy to bond. What, you can't play catch or go to a baseball game?

No, it's not ideal but in early 20s why wouldn't even a 70 year old be able to give guidance? He should be pretty damn wise, and if he's average he'd only be giving average advice, or worse, anyway. It depends on the guy.

I guess maybe you're saying it's hard to be objective about this. Well, I guess that's for others to truly decide, in a sense. But even others aren't objective very often.

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06-04-2019 07:07 PM
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Post: #104
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
(06-03-2019 11:45 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I wrote a long post about this on the new rules thread but it seemed a bit salty at the time so I saved it to drafts. Then the thread got closed and apparently that means you can't access drafts for that thread anymore. Bummer.

Anyway, the shorthand is this. I suspect this thread and one other in a similar vein were strong factors in Roosh's decision to pull the trigger on loose talk about casual sex until liver spots start appearing. This forum has always been about the weight of evidence. Results talk and BS walks. But these two threads made it clear that even after multiple members were heading to 40 with huge notch counts and regretting not starting a family earlier (including to whatever extent the very founder of the forum) younger guys were simply not interested in the evidence.

You can't lead men into a brothel and ask them to choose monogamy. It just doesn't work.

When the consequences are way off in far-away land guys wont listen to the majority giving solid advice. They'll listen to the one guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who made it work (luck in love and genetics, but they don't want to hear that either). We even had guys saying "well look at Trump, he's doing just fine!" This kind of hamsterism is no different from feminist drivel about how a friend of a friend married a billionaire when she was 40 and had 5 healthy, happy kids. You can't convince a young man that he's ever going to get old. They all think that if they exercise and eat right and do the right TRT then they'll be doing kip-ups in the dojo when they're 70, and there's always one or two freaks in the whole wide world able to do it (often at immense hidden cost) that will validate their delusions.

I hear you, but the same extreme is represented by doing nothing --- younger blue pill or social welfare types have the same or greater numbers of kids still. I won't choose to back that side.

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06-04-2019 07:10 PM
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Post: #105
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
(06-03-2019 11:45 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I wrote a long post about this on the new rules thread but it seemed a bit salty at the time so I saved it to drafts. Then the thread got closed and apparently that means you can't access drafts for that thread anymore. Bummer.

Anyway, the shorthand is this. I suspect this thread and one other in a similar vein were strong factors in Roosh's decision to pull the trigger on loose talk about casual sex until liver spots start appearing. This forum has always been about the weight of evidence. Results talk and BS walks. But these two threads made it clear that even after multiple members were heading to 40 with huge notch counts and regretting not starting a family earlier (including to whatever extent the very founder of the forum) younger guys were simply not interested in the evidence.

You can't lead men into a brothel and ask them to choose monogamy. It just doesn't work.

For me it's interesting to see the settle-down talk start for men in their late 30s. I voluntarily choose to not live a player lifestyle during my 20s, and I'm missing that experience now, but that also means as a converted Christian I have no regrets.

Being in my late 30s, I'm approaching my peak as man, which is still years ahead way into my 40s and 50s and I'm still gaining traction in things I'm passionate about and I'm working on self improvement - for my own sake, not for meeting societal expectations.

Recently I experience what I read about a decade ago from MGTOW, when I was still 25-28 and struggling with my whole life: Once you become an older man going his own way, young women (18+) start getting attached to you on their own, without any approaching or even having proper game. And exactly that started happening for me.

The question I ask myself is: Why waste that peak to a corporation (building a "career") becoming a beta provider or a 30something woman on her last eggs? Women settle down, when they are past their peak (which is roughly age 24), why should men let themselves get pinned down much, much earlier?
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2019 04:28 AM by wwtl.)
06-05-2019 04:10 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #106
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
Women peak at 18 or at other ages which are not up for discussion depending on their race.

The very concept of choosing when you want to become a father is an unnatural product of the modern age. For the vast majority of our history Becky started getting her period and immediately hooked up with a Chad a few years older than her. Selective success in breeding at later ages brought Europeans to the forefront when they managed to defer childbirth for a mere couple of years as compared to their equatorial competitors but once they hit 18 it's all downhill from there. Any illusion to the contrary is simply the difference between them being innocent and later learning to leverage their sexuality to the maximum extent possible, but there's no genetic or intellectual benefits of finding a 24 year old woman rather than an 18 year old one. In those 6 years she'll be run through the feminist indoctrination factory called university, become a pseudo alcoholic, get pumped and dumped by a hundred Chads and possibly already be on anti-psychotic medication as well as having spent that 6 years having her body chemistry wrecked by the pill and a bunch of STDs/vaginal infections.

And men don't peak at 30+ either. That's another manosphere load of junk. The army doesn't look at a new platoon of 18-20 year old men and think "damn, I wish we could get some 28 year old guys and maybe a few 32s..." Again, for a short while the increase in your cunning (and finances) outstrips the loss of physical prowess but thinking you'll be a better dad at 35 than at 25 is nonsense. You don't want to be "passing your peak" as your first kid rolls into the world. It's as dumb as thinking you'll start your sporting career "when I peak as a man".

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2019 07:39 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
06-05-2019 07:34 AM
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Post: #107
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
(06-05-2019 07:34 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Women peak at 18 or at other ages which are not up for discussion depending on their race.

So a white woman looking better at age 21 than at age 18 (still not fully developed) is what? I wasn't talking about peak fertility, this happens earlier thanks to Western nutrition, but they still look like ... teenagers then.

Quote:And men don't peak at 30+ either. That's another manosphere load of junk. The army doesn't look at a new platoon of 18-20 year old men and think "damn, I wish we could get some 28 year old guys and maybe a few 32s..." Again, for a short while the increase in your cunning (and finances) outstrips the loss of physical prowess but thinking you'll be a better dad at 35 than at 25 is nonsense. You don't want to be "passing your peak" as your first kid rolls into the world. It's as dumb as thinking you'll start your sporting career "when I peak as a man".

Peak SMV is not, what the army is looking for. And it's also not, what matters for being a dad either. Dad needs to be a provider.
06-05-2019 09:54 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
Many millions of men are siring kids in their early to mid 20's without having to send them barefoot to school.

When I hear a guy saying "I want to be in a good financial situation when..." what it translates to is "I don't want to give up any of the luxuries I currently enjoy when..."

You are never rich enough to have kids but people always do. And for women the earlier the better. What do you think she's going to be doing from age 18 to 21? Quietly knitting mittens for your future children?

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
06-05-2019 11:00 AM
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Post: #109
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
(06-05-2019 07:34 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  And men don't peak at 30+ either. That's another manosphere load of junk. The army doesn't look at a new platoon of 18-20 year old men and think "damn, I wish we could get some 28 year old guys and maybe a few 32s..." Again, for a short while the increase in your cunning (and finances) outstrips the loss of physical prowess but thinking you'll be a better dad at 35 than at 25 is nonsense. You don't want to be "passing your peak" as your first kid rolls into the world. It's as dumb as thinking you'll start your sporting career "when I peak as a man".

In the spirit of honesty, I am turning 31 next month, so you may think I am biased, but I think it's true.

In terms of "peak" SMV, looking at my own life, disregarding finances/personality/etc, I dwarf who I was 10 years ago. I lifted religiously and dieted very strictly, avoiding alcohol, getting adequate rest, etc.

However, the major difference is that I am more injury prone nowadays and need to incorporate yoga/myofascial release into my regimen as compared to when I was younger.

I would say the army looks at younger men for recruits because younger men are dumber, more quick to recovery, more impressionable, and have less to lose.

However, if you put a 20 year old and a 30 year old in a battle (assuming both are at their physical peak), I'd without a doubt want the 30 year old protecting my ass.
06-05-2019 05:40 PM
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Post: #110
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
SMV =/= ideal age to have children.

The manosphere should be pushing guys to have children at 17-18. By the time you are 35-36 (peak SMV) your child is on his way out the door. Much easier to become single in that situation (if you so desire) than to start a family after 2 decades of being a bachelor.

Regarding Roosh and his epiphany, it was quite obvious from the start that dedicating your life to chasing women is not the way to happiness. Not sure why it took him so long. All of this was explained in The Game...most PUAs are either permanent bachelors or end up in divorce court like Neil Strauss. The only one with a happy ending so far is Paul Janka (we'll see how long that lasts).
You don't even need to know game, just read about the lives of famous actors, athletes, politicians etc. Many high status, wealthy guys who have pussy on demand make horrible choices when it comes to relationships/marriage.

At the other extreme, not having any experience with women can also backfire. There are plenty of frustrated guys out there who can't get laid and I don't think a relationship is the solution for them. You are just as likely to make mistakes when you don't have abundance.
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2019 08:00 PM by Pointer.)
06-05-2019 07:56 PM
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Post: #111
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
(06-05-2019 07:34 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  And men don't peak at 30+ either. That's another manosphere load of junk. The army doesn't look at a new platoon of 18-20 year old men and think "damn, I wish we could get some 28 year old guys and maybe a few 32s..." Again, for a short while the increase in your cunning (and finances) outstrips the loss of physical prowess but thinking you'll be a better dad at 35 than at 25 is nonsense. You don't want to be "passing your peak" as your first kid rolls into the world. It's as dumb as thinking you'll start your sporting career "when I peak as a man".

This is a very confused post. Socially, men absolutely do. Athletically, they are just past the top age (27) when skills start to fade a bit but savvy is that much higher and can hang on. Insurance was always lower on men post 29 in Italian societies over 500 years ago for a reason; they proved they defeated the age at which disease hit and were still ticking, stronger than ever and more resource laden.

Your statement about 25 vs 35 is just flat out wrong; still, it doesn't mean any given individual can't be a good dad at 25, it's just that you are totally off in the strident nature of your post.

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06-05-2019 08:48 PM
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Post: #112
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
(06-05-2019 05:40 PM)tugofpeace Wrote:  In the spirit of honesty, I am turning 31 next month, so you may think I am biased, but I think it's true.

In terms of "peak" SMV, looking at my own life, disregarding finances/personality/etc, I dwarf who I was 10 years ago. I lifted religiously and dieted very strictly, avoiding alcohol, getting adequate rest, etc.

Peak masculinity isn't at 30, it just starts there and goes a long way up to 50. How good you keep in shape decides what use you can get out of it.

The main question is if you want to collect hundreds of notches beforehand or simply focus on other things in your youth before the game essentially plays itself at peak SMV and at the end of it finally settle down.

(06-05-2019 07:56 PM)Pointer Wrote:  The manosphere should be pushing guys to have children at 17-18. By the time you are 35-36 (peak SMV) your child is on his way out the door.

I know, we're all into this gender equality thing now, but guys can't have children. It's the woman who has children or more likely has not. Biological fertility overall has gone down dramatically in the West, even if you take contraception out of the picture.
06-06-2019 04:07 AM
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Post: #113
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
There is no danger in setting down at 40.

Hopefully by then, you've had your fun and saved a bit of money. Finding a life partner should be your main goal, ideally half your age plus seven.

Of course in today's society that isn't easy, men want to have fun and women think they have time. Time doesn't wait for no one.

Sorry to disappoint some of you guys, men hit the wall too. The reason why the military wants young men is because they are at their peak. Once you hit 30 you are already on a downward spiral, science doesn't lie.

I speak as a man who is 50, I maybe in great shape for my age but I will never be close to me at age 20.

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(This post was last modified: 06-06-2019 09:41 AM by rudebwoy.)
06-06-2019 09:24 AM
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Post: #114
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
I am 37 and I feel like I missed the train for good.

- Finding a 25-30 quality female in the west is extremely hard. You can get lucky...but odds are you won't. I am not rich too.

I have met a girl...and she would qualify as wife material. She passed all my red flags tests during the two first dates... but she was 36. I felt like she wanted to have kids so bad. She brought that up after our second date.

36 year old is too old. I stopped seeing her after the second date.

- Going abroad to find a bride is also not an option for me. Too many bad stories.
06-06-2019 09:56 AM
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Post: #115
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
(06-06-2019 09:56 AM)mehdreamer Wrote:  I am 37 and I feel like I missed the train for good.

- Finding a 25-30 quality female in the west is extremely hard. You can get lucky...but odds are you won't. I am not rich too.

I have met a girl...and she would qualify as wife material. She passed all my red flags tests during the two first dates... but she was 36. I felt like she wanted to have kids so bad. She brought that up after our second date.

36 year old is too old. I stopped seeing her after the second date.

- Going abroad to find a bride is also not an option for me. Too many bad stories.

You letting a good girl solely due to the age?

Unless your Dan Bilzerian...most of the successful relationships I see are ones that are about 5 years close in age.

Since I'm turning 50 soon I understand your thoughts as I also thought that way for a long time too.

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(This post was last modified: 06-06-2019 10:44 AM by rishboy77.)
06-06-2019 10:41 AM
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Post: #116
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
(06-06-2019 09:56 AM)mehdreamer Wrote:  I am 37 and I feel like I missed the train for good.

- Finding a 25-30 quality female in the west is extremely hard. You can get lucky...but odds are you won't. I am not rich too.

I have met a girl...and she would qualify as wife material. She passed all my red flags tests during the two first dates... but she was 36. I felt like she wanted to have kids so bad. She brought that up after our second date.

36 year old is too old. I stopped seeing her after the second date.

- Going abroad to find a bride is also not an option for me. Too many bad stories.

This is the number one issue.

You can take all the questions around maximum male SMV in looks, finance, game and fitness and toss them out the window.

You should settle not much later than 25 because that's when you can still get a younger woman before she's been chewed up and spat out of the insane societies we live in. The older you get the more likely it will be that the younger woman you manage to lock down is only in it for your money, though you will unfortunately be quick to convince yourself that it's all about your incredible charisma. Settle for an older one and your odds get longer still that she's not going to inevitably destroy your life.

Young men are well advised to do their kid stuff until 25 and then get off the carousel. The closer to zero her notch count is the higher the chances of a marriage lasting the distance. That's pure statistical fact. Otherwise you'll be competing with an amalgam of every fond memory of every man who's ever banged her. You're not competing against the memory of the millionaire or the tall guy or the dude with the big dick or the guy that had killer game. You're competing with the imaginary guy who's a tall millionaire with a big dick and killer game.

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
(This post was last modified: 06-06-2019 10:49 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
06-06-2019 10:43 AM
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Post: #117
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
(06-06-2019 10:41 AM)rishboy77 Wrote:  
(06-06-2019 09:56 AM)mehdreamer Wrote:  I am 37 and I feel like I missed the train for good.

- Finding a 25-30 quality female in the west is extremely hard. You can get lucky...but odds are you won't. I am not rich too.

I have met a girl...and she would qualify as wife material. She passed all my red flags tests during the two first dates... but she was 36. I felt like she wanted to have kids so bad. She brought that up after our second date.

36 year old is too old. I stopped seeing her after the second date.

- Going abroad to find a bride is also not an option for me. Too many bad stories.

You letting a good girl solely due to the age?

Unless your Dan Bilzerian...most of the successful relationships I see are ones that are about 5 years close in age.

Since I'm turning 50 soon I understand your thoughts as I also thought that way for a long time too.

Actually I can see why he's hesitant to date this girl. She's 36 and desperate to have kids but the problem is that she's very late to the game and her ability to have kids is tenuous at best. Her obsession with wanting kids, so much so that she's willing to express this to a guy that she is on only the second date with, will torpedo any chance of a proper relationship. She will put so much pressure on him and it'll be a miserable experience for him. He needs to find a chick 10 years younger that still has a bit of time to allow for proper development of a relationship before getting married and having kids. If this chick had more sense she'd be married with a kid or two by now. Childless and/or single/divorced women in their late 30s are a mess and should be generally avoided as wife/mother prospects.

This is the problem for guys who wait this long though. The pickings are slim and you have to go for a chick in her 20s which is a challenge.
(This post was last modified: 06-06-2019 11:00 AM by doc holliday.)
06-06-2019 10:59 AM
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Post: #118
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
Most normal people these days marry in their late twenties, early 30s.

Statistically, I’d be willing to believe people live longer than they did in the past, so it doesn’t make sense to have kids at a young age.

What do you think you’ll do with your life when your kids are out the door by 43-45? You’ll be bored as shit.

Better to have kids at 30-35 so you’re not alone by the time you reach middle age. Life is LONG. Imagine having an empty nest at 43-45 and being that way forever, regardless of whether you get grandkids or not.

So many people are in a rush to do it all, but wtf is the point of living so long if you’re going to finish everything worth doing within the first half of your life. Personally, I’m taking it slow.
06-06-2019 11:01 AM
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Post: #119
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
I'm not disagreeing with Leonard D Neubache, and it's good advice for people who are still 18, but it's quite useless for anyone over age 25. It's idealistic and is probably sound advice if you're 18 years old, good looking, have game, and don't live in a metropolitan area. The problem with idealistic visions is that they don't work for 99% of people. Frankly, what he's saying is useless for anyone above the age of 30. My father had his fun, got married and had 2 kids in his 50's, and lived a great life until he died. I don't plan on waiting until my 50's, but it's a ridiculous assumption that you've missed the mark if you're past age 25.

Plenty of 22 chads will marry a sexy 18 year olds, have kids and be miserable. They'll home school their kids like good white Christians should, and their entire family (including kids) will end up twice as fucked as the 40 year old ex-player who married a 27 year old. Neither situations are perfect, but marrying at age 22 is just as much of a gamble as marrying at age 40 IMO. When I was 22 I didn't even have the game to lock down a 6, let alone a virgin 8/10.

Being in your early-mid 20's and marrying an 18 year old is nice and idealistic for Christians. But for the rest of us, I've seen plenty of examples of guys in their mid-late 30's marrying hot 25 year olds and being quite happy.
06-06-2019 11:15 AM
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RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
(06-06-2019 09:24 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  There is no danger in setting down at 40.
Hopefully by then, you've had your fun and saved a bit of money.
The fun starts at 35, before that it's just lots of work and building up a life.

Quote:Finding a life partner should be your main goal, ideally half your age plus seven.
20 is the ideal age for a woman, your age doesn't matter at all.

Quote:Of course in today's society that isn't easy, men want to have fun and women think they have time. Time doesn't wait for no one.
Women hitting the wall is not our problem.

Quote:Sorry to disappoint some of you guys, men hit the wall too. The reason why the military wants young men is because they are at their peak. Once you hit 30 you are already on a downward spiral, science doesn't lie.
The military wants moldable cannon fodder. A 40 years old man has made up his own mind already.

Quote:I speak as a man who is 50, I maybe in great shape for my age but I will never be close to me at age 20.
Do you have regrets?

(06-06-2019 09:56 AM)mehdreamer Wrote:  I am 37 and I feel like I missed the train for good.
I'm 37 too and all I'm missing is a few notches (not hundreds), should have gotten at least some during the recent years. Otherwise I'm happy with the results of de-programming the anti-male doctrine I got brainwashed with during my education.

Quote:- Finding a 25-30 quality female in the west is extremely hard. You can get lucky...but odds are you won't. I am not rich too.
Why do you want to find a post-wall woman?

Quote:I have met a girl...and she would qualify as wife material. She passed all my red flags tests during the two first dates... but she was 36. I felt like she wanted to have kids so bad. She brought that up after our second date.
So that's a huge red flag.
06-06-2019 11:15 AM
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Post: #121
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
(06-06-2019 10:59 AM)doc holliday Wrote:  Actually I can see why he's hesitant to date this girl. She's 36 and desperate to have kids but the problem is that she's very late to the game and her ability to have kids is tenuous at best. Her obsession with wanting kids, so much so that she's willing to express this to a guy that she is on only the second date with, will torpedo any chance of a proper relationship. She will put so much pressure on him and it'll be a miserable experience for him.
Once she is pregnant, she is gone with the child and your offspring is a number on your monthly bank statement. The more honest women tell you beforehand, once she is more desperate she will simply get pregnant on the first date and that's it.

Quote:This is the problem for guys who wait this long though. The pickings are slim and you have to go for a chick in her 20s which is a challenge.
It's a false belief. At peak SMV it's no challenge at all to attract young fertile women. The problem is, that this doesn't help someone who wants a family. These young woman want fun and are not going to become pregnant or they abort the pregnancy. There is your society problem.

(06-06-2019 11:01 AM)tugofpeace Wrote:  Better to have kids at 30-35 so you’re not alone by the time you reach middle age. Life is LONG. Imagine having an empty nest at 43-45 and being that way forever, regardless of whether you get grandkids or not.
So many people are in a rush to do it all, but wtf is the point of living so long if you’re going to finish everything worth doing within the first half of your life. Personally, I’m taking it slow.
It's about constructing a false dogma about the "wall" for men. A wall which doesn't exist. Men can procreate until they die.

(06-06-2019 11:15 AM)travolta Wrote:  The problem with idealistic visions is that they don't work for 99% of people. Frankly, what he's saying is useless for anyone above the age of 30
It's blue pill. Of course it's useless.
(This post was last modified: 06-06-2019 11:25 AM by wwtl.)
06-06-2019 11:25 AM
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Post: #122
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
(06-06-2019 10:41 AM)rishboy77 Wrote:  
(06-06-2019 09:56 AM)mehdreamer Wrote:  I am 37 and I feel like I missed the train for good.

- Finding a 25-30 quality female in the west is extremely hard. You can get lucky...but odds are you won't. I am not rich too.

I have met a girl...and she would qualify as wife material. She passed all my red flags tests during the two first dates... but she was 36. I felt like she wanted to have kids so bad. She brought that up after our second date.

36 year old is too old. I stopped seeing her after the second date.

- Going abroad to find a bride is also not an option for me. Too many bad stories.

You letting a good girl solely due to the age?

Unless your Dan Bilzerian...most of the successful relationships I see are ones that are about 5 years close in age.

Since I'm turning 50 soon I understand your thoughts as I also thought that way for a long time too.

"Unless you're Dan Bilzerian?"

Wot...?

Man, the pua space has gone from over-optimism to extreme cynicism. What are you even talking about?

This is such an extreme miscaricature of dating norms on the ground that it's hard to take it seriously. Dan Bilzerian?

It's not that hard to date a younger woman as a guy in the west. Sure, if you're not an accomplished player, you'll struggle to meet and lock down a 20-year-old there (not so much if you are a seasoned player), but that doesn't mean that, as a 36-year-old, you should grab every eager 36-year-old that comes across your plate either...And it certainly doesn't mean you need to be Bilzerian to have a fighting chance. Big Grin

Come on.

And Leonard with the "not much older than 25." Look, I understand some of you guys trying to inject some realism and conservative values back in the forum, and hey, I can even respect it.

But you're overdoing it a bit with this fearmongering and telling guys they will only get money-grubbers if they wait longer. It's simply not true. Not in Southeast Asia and not in the West. You don't have to be misleading to explain to men that there may be a better way.

I still get attention (and play when I'm single) at 38 from beautiful women younger than 25 (am I the only one who doesn't even think that's a weird age difference?), in 1st world countries as well as poor ones. Some of them are much more well off than me.

I know guys back home in California that have younger ole ladies (some married and others not) who have never read even one book on game and thought the Mystery show was just weird and hilarious. Do you guys not know men like this? Why? I wonder sometimes what planet you guys live on - because where I'm from the examples are not that hard to find, even if they're no longer "normal."

Yes, guys that do this obviously have game. And yes, I've got some game too and I've always been somewhat good with women. Maybe I'm even "cool" to a young bird that walks into my world. Fair enough. But unless I'm mistaken this forum is a place where men want to strive to be a prize (paging Giovonny) - not just settle for what they can get because they're scared they'll miss the boat.

I'm happy for guys who want to settle down and do things "right." To live disciplined and morally. Great. Please do. We probably do need more of that.

But enough with the goading, shaming, and fearmongering already. The real picture is far from the one you guys are painting, anywhere I've spent time in the world. I understand what some of you are trying to do but I'm also seeing a lot of scarcity mentality getting preached around here, and that ain't doing anyone any favors either.

Beyond All Seas

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To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
(This post was last modified: 06-06-2019 12:30 PM by Beyond Borders.)
06-06-2019 11:58 AM
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Post: #123
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
Couldn't agree more with Travolta and BB.

The specific age at which you peak as a man is largely dependent on your genetics, your career choice, your location, and a dozen other factors, many of which are controllable. It is different for everybody.

Writing on this forum that "ideally" men should be having kids at 17-18, or that they "peak" at 20, is counterproductive. For one, there are very few people that age here. Furthermore, in all likelihood, the top 1% guy who is 18-20 with a hot traditional girlfriend and with the natural game to keep her around long-term is not going to be posting on an internet forum.

The majority of young men here are here because they have a problem and they are looking for advice on how to solve it. I know I was one of those. Telling impressionable guys that they're already peaked and that they should get married ASAP will lead them to either marry their best existing option (likely a poor one) or to give up entirely. Both of these are sub-par outcomes as compared to improving yourself for a period of time.
06-06-2019 12:21 PM
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Post: #124
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
(06-06-2019 11:58 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  It's not that hard to date a younger woman as a guy in the west.
It's much easier than by being below 25 as a guy. That's why we read about game back then. Because it didn't work at all otherwise. This turns around 20 years later and the established single man becomes the price.

Quote:And Leonard with the "not much older than 25." Look, I understand some of you guys trying to inject some realism and conservative values back in the forum, and hey, I can even respect it.
I have hard time seeing the "realism", it's standard boomer talk.

Quote:I still get attention (and play when I'm single) at 38 from beautiful women younger than 25 (am I the only one who doesn't even think that's a weird age difference?), in 1st world countries as well as poor ones. Some of them are much more well off than me.
I find the "still" amusing. As if young women suddenly prefer 20 years old college freshmen with no game to a the well-dressed business man, who has his life sorted out and is not locked down in marriage yet. The latter is very rare and immediately gets attention.

Quote:Yes, they've obviously got game. And yes, I've got some game and I've always been somewhat good with women. Maybe I'm even "cool." Fair enough. But unless I'm mistaken this forum is a place where men want to strive to be a prize - not just settle for what they can get because they're scared they'll miss the boat.
You mean like the 19yo 9/10 scared to never get laid again, so she chooses to marry her high-school sweetheart, just to be sure.
06-06-2019 12:35 PM
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Post: #125
RE: Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+
(06-06-2019 12:21 PM)RDF Wrote:  Couldn't agree more with Travolta and BB.

The specific age at which you peak as a man is largely dependent on your genetics, your career choice, your location, and a dozen other factors, many of which are controllable. It is different for everybody.

Writing on this forum that "ideally" men should be having kids at 17-18, or that they "peak" at 20, is counterproductive. For one, there are very few people that age here. Furthermore, in all likelihood, the top 1% guy who is 18-20 with a hot traditional girlfriend and with the natural game to keep her around long-term is not going to be posting on an internet forum.

The majority of young men here are here because they have a problem and they are looking for advice on how to solve it. I know I was one of those. Telling impressionable guys that they're already peaked and that they should get married ASAP will lead them to either marry their best existing option (likely a poor one) or to give up entirely. Both of these are sub-par outcomes as compared to improving yourself for a period of time.

Both extremes that are being talked about are not really great options for men. I agree with living some life and gaining some maturity are important for men and getting married too young can be tough, emotionally and financially. Leonard is the only one really talking about that and while I see some of his points I do think that his age frames are a bit young. Nothing wrong settling down with a chick in her mid to late 20s, even 30-32 is ok if she hasn't ridden the carousel too hard.

As big a problem though is when older guys tell younger guys that your SMV peaks at 38 and that it'll be easy at that time to settle down with a young chick. If it were that easy, then everyone on the forum at that age would be doing that. Instead, most guys on the forum are lamenting that they want to settle down but all they are finding are desperate 36 year olds that are finally ready to get married and have kids. Now I'm not saying it can't be done, anything is possible and with good genetics, living a disciplined lifestyle of good diet, sleep and minimal alcohol consumption, decent game and inner vibe along with a bit of luck, a guy in his late 30s can find a chick in her 20s to settle down with, even in the west. The problem though is that most guys are not this type of guy. They are more typically guys that have partied a lot over the years, have high notch counts with loser women, resulting in their own messed up baggage and as they've aged, have gotten set in their ways of living by themselves and for themselves. Do not underestimate the difficulty of having to start making sacrifices that up to this point you have never had to make while being single. It's not easy at any age to settle down but at that age it's even harder. Anyone that thinks it's easy to start having kids at that age is clearly talking like someone that has no clue.

I'm 50 and I'll be an empty nester next year and I'm glad for it. There's no way I would have energy to have small children at my age. Finding a young chick is just the first battle but there are a ton more other challenges that come with settling down that late. There's too much hamstering going on here. Being optimistic is good as you can't change the past but being unrealistic about future challenges is not. Telling young guys who want to eventually settle down to wait until they're almost 40 is as bad of advice as telling them to get married at 22.
(This post was last modified: 06-06-2019 01:06 PM by doc holliday.)
06-06-2019 12:56 PM
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