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NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
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rpg Offline
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Post: #626
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
Im just going to come out and say this. Women are not all the same in the least. Some women smell bad, some have a gross skin texture, some will never learn how to have sex in a pleasant way, some are just all around plain and some are just disgusting. Now after saying that, the opposite is true, some smell great, feel great, taste great, have huge stamina and know how to have sex. Some are cute and some are hot.
I sure would hate to marry a boring smelly woman with no energy.
05-25-2019 01:09 PM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #627
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
Has Rigsby posted on this thread? I don't remember.

I just have a mental image of him, walking through a picturesque English graveyard, head in hands, muttering, this is all my fault.

This is all my fault.

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

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05-25-2019 01:13 PM
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scengja Offline
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Post: #628
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
First of all thanks for the travel forum and all the actionable advice. I have not posted much but whenever I did I tried to make sure I added some sort of value. It has been a great resource for me on the road.

Although I probably never agreed with a majority on this forum about politics and a lot of other issues I was still fine with it since that is free speech for you.

Since this forum is the creation of Roosh and shares his name I totally understand the changes, no hard feelings at all, thanks for the ride.

However, since a type of censorship will be implemented I will no longer post on this forum and seek for other alternatives. So my account can be deleted.

Finally for me there are two type of religious people in the world: The ones that just mind their own business (which is fine) and the ones that try to push their BS onto others. I hope this forum (and its founder) will not be the latter.

I am in no need for "salvation", I do not need to "find" Jesus, I am just a dude that wants to know which bar in Juarez has the best female to male ratio or how much a 1br apartment is in Shanghai.
05-25-2019 01:19 PM
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questor70 Offline
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RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
(05-25-2019 10:16 AM)nek Wrote:  I think what drives women insane is the lack of intermale conflict, even at the personal level. Men don't compete the way they used to. Just like how men don't like economic socialism, women hate sexual socialism.

I think you're probably right.

The problem is I don't think this cycle can just keep repeating forever. I feel that we are at the proverbial end of history. We're not talking about fixing decadence by barbarians sacking Rome and entering the purposeful dark ages of carving your way through the world with a sword. We have the tools to render the whole planet unliveable, and I know I'm in the minority by saying this, but even without war we're doing that anyway, through overpopulation. And all this because women are bored and guys are struggling getting laid? If so then we deserve to go extinct.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2019 01:22 PM by questor70.)
05-25-2019 01:20 PM
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Post: #630
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
(05-25-2019 01:20 PM)questor70 Wrote:  
(05-25-2019 10:16 AM)nek Wrote:  I think what drives women insane is the lack of intermale conflict, even at the personal level. Men don't compete the way they used to. Just like how men don't like economic socialism, women hate sexual socialism.

I think you're probably right.

The problem is I don't think this cycle can just keep repeating forever. I feel that we are at the proverbial end of history. We're not talking about fixing decadence by barbarians sacking Rome and entering the purposeful dark ages of carving your way through the world with a sword. We have the tools to render the whole planet unliveable, and I know I'm in the minority by saying this, but even without war we're doing that anyway, through overpopulation. And all this because women are bored and guys are struggling getting laid? If so then we deserve to go extinct.

Well then we're both in the minority, as I agree with you about the destruction without conflict. One of the bones I have to pick with how environmental issues are debated is the fact that it always goes to the whole climate change debate and the veracity of the science, and somehow, the whole concern about environmental issues is dismissed simply because of the politicization of the one topic. Independent of the earth's temperature, there's plenty of other issues that are arising due to pollution and resource depletion, but those always fall to the wayside and the debate becomes focused on the climate change issue, since it provides a straw man for those arguing against human impacts to the world.

I think the mentality of those that think the societal ship can be reversed is the same as those that dismiss any concern about human impacts, as it looks like an attempt to not look at the ugly reality of things and the psychological distress that may be coupled with it.

All this makes me wonder if we've reached "peak humanity".

Civilize the mind but make savage the body.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2019 01:54 PM by nek.)
05-25-2019 01:31 PM
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RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
(05-25-2019 01:31 PM)nek Wrote:  Well then we're both in the minority, as I agree with you about the destruction without conflict.

That's nice to know. (PM me if you want to compare notes.) IMHO, this is the ultimate red-pill. Everyone's at different life stages and we got into the manosphere stuff for different reasons. Some of the generalizations being hurled around here are really inaccurate. I gravitated towards the manosphere for two reasons:

1) I don't see much of a hopeful future for the planet even in a best case scenario so I want to just experience as much pleasure while I still can. Move through the bucket list. And women aren't the only thing on it, but are a key component. Hopefully quality over quantity as I have an extremely low tolerance for drama/shit-tests.

2) While I'm not married, I do have a daughter that I had to raise as a single dad. So I know what living like an ascetic feels like. My problem is NOT that I'm pursuing an empty quest for sex at the expense of pair-bonding and family-building. It's that I've missed out on some of the joys of life in order to raise my daughter. So I feel no guilt in wanting to make up for lost time while I still can. But I'm not interested in shopping for a wife or building a new family. That ship has sailed.

But the common element is I can see the existing order straining and buckling around me, that sense that things are only going to get worse each year across many fronts.

So from my vantage point, I'd rather make the most of the time we've been given than to opt out over guilt/shame.

[Image: 23f4832c2eccc41201ff5f79e51781c3.jpg]

Everyone should know by now that on people's death beds, they universally say that they regret the things they didn't do far more than the things they did. All anyone ever has to show for themselves is their memories.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2019 02:04 PM by questor70.)
05-25-2019 01:59 PM
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Hedonist94 Offline
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Post: #632
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
Let's not pretend there's a huge number of marriageable women in their mid 20s.

I've known women that are marriage/ltr material but all of those women were already in long term relationships by their early 20s. Some of them are still with the same guy they met back in their early high school years. Others met in their 1st/2nd year of university. That cute 6/10 24 year old librarian looking girl? She's engaged to her boyfriend she met 8 years ago.

If a woman is in her mid 20s and still isn't in a relationship with a stable guy, it's usually her decision.

This poses a problem for guys who were late bloomers - half the guys in engineering are probably virgins. These are the sort of guys a few decades ago would have found wives by their early 20s and would have been good stable family men... not anymore. Now their dating pool is women who are absolutely not relationship material. There's a pretty big mismatch between the kinds of men in their 20s not in relationships (betas) and the kinds of women in their 20s not in relationships (sloots chasing alphas on dating apps, "career" women with mediocre marketing jobs, really fat women).

Now, let's assume you find a woman worth marrying, you still have incredibly slanted divorce laws. A woman at 27 could be a completely different person by the time she's 37.

The divorce laws, the culture, the lack of marriage worth women, to a lesser extent the lack of a marriage worthy men, these problems are at the very core of our civilisation.

Getting betas to attend church a few times and find a reformed-slut church girl to marry doesn't solve a damn thing. That would only feed the beast. The system relies on chumps betting on their odds.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2019 02:14 PM by Hedonist94.)
05-25-2019 02:06 PM
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Roosh Offline
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RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
(05-25-2019 01:13 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  Has Rigsby posted on this thread? I don't remember.

I just have a mental image of him, walking through a picturesque English graveyard, head in hands, muttering, this is all my fault.

This is all my fault.

In the forum thread listing, the number of replies to each thread is actually a link that shows you who posted in the thread and how many times.

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05-25-2019 02:13 PM
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Post: #634
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
(05-25-2019 02:06 PM)Hedonist94 Wrote:  Getting betas to attend church a few times and find a reformed-slut church girl to marry doesn't solve a damn thing. That would only feed the beast. The system relies on chumps betting on their odds.

No offense, but this is spoken by someone who really doesn't have a clue.

There are a ton of churches where virgins congregate. Both men and women and they can be in their early 20s up to late 20s.

They have their reasons for still being virgins and yes, sometimes finding the right person is exactly that. It doesn't make them weird at all and they're quitr well adjusted.

My advice is for you to pull your head out of the sand and find a church like that where those peoe exist. A young to late 20s virgin will latch onto a reformed player very quickly.

Has it occurred to you that strong church communities can keep reformed sluts married for years? I've seen it happen. I've also seen those same reformed sluts fall off the wagon, divorce, and those sad me pick up young virginal replacements mighty fast - much to slutty chicks chagrin.

Yes there are reformed sluts out there. Whether you like it or not, they do deserve 2nd chances too . Since your ," oh so red pilled" it's your choice to not marry them and can spread that knowledge to other less informed dudes .
05-25-2019 02:14 PM
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RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
Did they hack into Roosh's forum; or maybe I am just high? Still my appreciation for Roosh stays as I also will reduce time spent here; I believe I am on my journey that only pursuing inquiry through groups I feel to be real although the internet is already F#d; will be my only route to self-discovery and true happiness(If there is such a thing).
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2019 02:27 PM by Cup_Cake.)
05-25-2019 02:23 PM
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RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
(05-25-2019 02:23 PM)Cup_Cake Wrote:  Did they hack into Roosh's forum; or maybe I am just high? Still my appreciation for Roosh stays as I also will reduce time spent here; I believe I am on my journey that only pursuing inquiry through groups I feel to be real although the internet is already F#d; will be my only route to self-discovery and true happiness(If there is such a thing).

No girls. That did not change.

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

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05-25-2019 02:47 PM
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RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
The first thing I guess I need to say is that it is amazing to watch Roosh head down his spiritual journey. He will no doubt inspire many other men, and save many souls in the process.

None of this is contradictory for Roosh. He has always done what he considered to be in the best interests of men, and his forthcoming rules reflect his updated thinking: these rules are what will best help men. Getting laid was not the answer he thought it was, Roosh sees now that saving our souls from eternal damnation is the most important action any man can take. Finding God is paramount to the success of men anywhere, and what people nominally call the "West" is nothing more than the fruits Christendom. Roosh always had the "love thy neighbor as thyself" part down very well, but the God part came later for him. Now that he has found it, he believes these new rules will benefit men even if they are at odds with how this forum was created.

He's making the forum more polite, less degenerate, and more serious. I don't blame him. And yet, this move is not without downsides, not just for Roosh, but also for the men he wants to help.

I will elaborate as I highlight the best arguments in this thread.

(05-23-2019 11:33 AM)yeppels Wrote:  On one hand, this is your private space and you are free to do whatever you want with it.

On the other, you've personally dealt with censorship of your ideas and content, and other similar ideas and content of the manosphere/red pill/whatever you call them internet communities, for leftist "moral" reasons, which obviously differ vastly from yours, and as a result brought this forum closer together over dislike of (leftist) attempts of censorship and narrative control. Unfortunately, I see this as a different face of the same coin, where based on "morals", certain content is heretical/unfavorable, and censorship is the chosen path.

Again, your space, your rules, but considering this place has been a self-proclaimed bastion of truth and free speech that is not permitted elsewhere, I find it highly ironic.

Although tempting, the censorship argument against Roosh is not a good one.

This forum has always had tight restrictions on free speech in the form of "no insulting" other members. In Biblical terms, they are rules against reviling others. You can look back at old threads, and see hundreds of names of men who've been banned. Never was free speech here, and this forum is a great place because of it.

We don't have the noise of 4chan, where everyone is calling each other fag and dumbass all the time, and we don't have denial of truth like there is at reddit.

Instead, we have a polite place for men to discuss the real world as they perceive it.

These new rule changes aren't much different than the old levels of "censorship" that this forum has had, but it will certainly change the demeanor, tambre, and tenor of the forum in a direction men might find boring or tame.

But for Roosh, who has decades of rolling around in the dirt, it will be like a breath of fresh air and make the forum into a place he will want to continue to maintain.

(05-23-2019 11:35 AM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  The monk Aurelius Moner said he had no qualms about posting his ROK articles among other immoral articles, because "The Lord sat with prostitutes and tax collectors alike" so how is this forum any different. Most of the older guys look to get married or long-term relationships anyways. I'd say the fuckboy phase is a step in the redpill. Had you banned this type of talk originally, many of us would still be naive as hell about the world because we wouldn't be here.

And like it or not, sexual experience helps you keep a wife attracted to you. You most certainly have to actively "game" your Christian wife and experience is the only teacher IMO. If you can't handle women, your life will be a living hell. I was a good Catholic boy in highschool and girls ran me into the ground as I was naive about their nature and how to deal with them.

This is by far the best counter-argument to Roosh's decision to ban all discussions of premarital sex.

If it wasn't for premarital sex nowadays, I doubt half of us would even be alive right now. 80% of marriages today wouldn't exist.

Sexing up a woman is important part of getting her to fall in love with you, as far as I can tell or see. It's also a big tell on a woman: if she has sex with you, but doesn't fall in love, then you need to get out of that relationship immediately because you know she's a highly damaged slut. Sadly, you won't be fixing her and should spend time on a new girl.

The fact is, master Jesus said, (Mark 2:17) “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

By shutting off discussion of sin here, Roosh, you may be causing more harm than good. The sin won't simply disappear because we aren't talking about it on the forum. And those who do suffer from lust will remain unidentified, isolated, unable to relate to anyone, so they only drown further into their sin and debauchery. Or we will just find them at the Naughty Nomad forum, which I may need to actually go to now since the sinners will be there Laugh and Jesus commands us to heal them.

And this is not to say I am some perfect man, hell fucking no, I am a sinner as much as anyone else, and I came here to get laid, originally. But my spiritual journey was always very different than most. I came to this forum a firm believer in Christ and I never shied away from telling anyone. One prominent forum member, back in the old days, told me during our first meeting: "You're a mystery wrapped in an enigma," when I explained my faith to him.

That's because I understood none of us really understand things, all of us are trying to navigate a broken world, and that game being a necessary evil to get women in a fallen culture was just the age I lived in. Game can definitely be used to destroy good women, and it can be used to create beautiful families. It is just like any other weapon capable of good or evil. As Jesus said, God "sends rain down on the just and the unjust," and so too can Game be used by scumbags or saints.

But early on in my game journey, around bang #9 or so, I realized that simply having sex with a woman and not caring what happened next felt like a terrible waste of time, left me very unsatisfied, and it didn't seem too far away from straight up whoring.

So instead, I decided to only try and seduce women if I thought I could be "serious" with her, i.e. love her, cherish her, see if she loves me, and create a family with her. Much to my surprise, even after I banged women I found they didn't give a fuck about me and instead were using me for sex!! It would be years before I had a relationship, sorting through one damaged girl after the next, and I would almost always let the girls dump me first to prove to God that I was not pumping and dumping women. I showed good intent to give each woman a serious attempt at a relationship. Finding a good girlfriend and wife in a world where the men and women are debauched seems to involve premarital sex as an important screening mechanism for men. If, after sex, a woman shows little to no love to you, then you know the girl is a waste of time and isn't anything more than a damaged slut. I wish to God I could fix these women, and lord knows we have all tried to save a skank or a ho, but it doesn't work.

So I have to disagree with discussing talk on premarital sex, although I understand why you want to ban it Roosh. I get it, you're sick of the filth and shit of humanity and need to detox your soul. Allowing this kind of talk to occur in your house is an act of charity. You also feel guilt because in many of your books you glorified getting that pussy. But even if your intentions were wrong in many of your books and blog posts, it does not follow that banning men from discussing how to seduce a woman will help men, you, or your forum, as contradictory as it may seem to many Christians.

Sex is a major part of everyone's life, being the essence and secret to life. Reproduction is the great mystery of planet Earth, and the secret technology God developed when he created life. Reproduction is the only force in the universe more powerful than entropy. It IS, in many ways, eternal life through countless lives. God is love, and sex is indeed a big part of that. Us humans would like to believe we fully understand God and how He wants us to have sex, but I find nothing to convince me that we know more than a few important principles.

These principles form the maxim, Sex without love is lust, as gaming a woman purely for sex has the essence of whoring in it because you aren't necessarily loving the woman as you might love yourself (women are our Neighbors we are also commanded to love by God). The reasoning for this will be explained in greater detail below based on an exegesis I undertook with my orthodox priest over many months that involved even sending questions to the Church lawyers who could answer the most obscure questions (such as on Concubines).

This means that sex with the intent of love, taking each woman seriously as relationship potential and not sexing her up unless you could see yourself marrying her, is not a sin. The Bible has nothing in it to indicate that such an act is fornication, which is just an old latin term for whoring. But, I fully understand Biblical wisdom is superior, and if a girl can preserve her virginity for marriage she will be infinitely better off for it.

Therein lies the problem: what about the majority of women who aren't virgins, because they are sold lies their entire life, and carelessly have sex well before marriage? On top of the fact that marriage and reproduction are so hated on by the liberal establishment?

The fact of the matter is that men have no choice but to engage in premarital sex, because this is the sinful tragedy of our age, no different than thousands of past wars which forced innocent men to slaughter one another.

It is therefore not helpful to ban discussion on it; allowing men to continue discussing Game is a sad necessity of our time. I have always seen it this way Roosh, even before I ever discovered you through Roissy, but it took me a long time to arrive at this specific conclusion. I had years where I felt in conflict with my loyalty to Christ and our sexual culture, but I couldn't sort out that conflict. I wanted love but how do I get it in a loveless world?

Still, I admit banning premarital sex may be good for you, having been so drowned in sexual sins for so long. It will not be as good for men, but this forum will still remain as a powerful place for men to improve their body and soul regardless of what you do. That said, doing what you need spiritually, Roosh, is extremely important. For if a man cannot save his own soul, how can he expect to save another? This is why a monk who lives in a cave can have such a profound effect on so many; his spiritual rigidity provides support for everyone around him, allowing cities and civilizations to spring forth from that anchor. Ultimately all men are weak, and we cannot provide charity for others unless we are strong enough ourselves, which is what you are doing by allowing dirty talk on this forum: you are providing cover with your real name for other men to discuss things they'd rather hide. And in doing so, men are able to construct an order out of our chaotic and fallen world, but it comes at a tremendous personal cost to yourself.

If you feel the need for a spiritual cleansing of casting all types of sexual sin out of your house, well then I can only hope it is just a phase for a few years before you relax the rules and let people discuss premarital sex within the parameters of securing a loyal woman for marriage. I believe this is the truest form of doing good by Christ, but you can only do what you can. I've personally found incredible value even out of this forum, and your work, even during the most debauched years you had, because I understood that the knowledge we were seeking still came from God. I therefore believe God has brought us all together, though this place, for a reason, a specific and important reason, namely to create the next order of sexual ethics for Christian men in a totally fallen world.

The Book of Revelations warned about the days of endless whoring before Christ made his return, and it appears they are onsetting us. Christen men have no choice but to develop a new code of sexual ethics because we all know that simply waiting to have sex before marriage is a losing strategy against today's degenerate forces, otherwise the Church and it's communities would have fared much better. We must accept the failures of the last 100 years to preserve traditional sexual morality with deadly seriousness, because these sins can literally kill off our people.

(05-23-2019 11:51 AM)Caduceus Wrote:  Roosh - thanks to this forum, your books, your blog, your videos, and your advice over the past 15 years...thousands of failing men worldwide were finally able to get girlfriends that later turned into wives & mothers, and thousands of husbands were able to either rekindle and/or save their marriages. Even more men were saved from committing suicide after being divorce raped or otherwise burnt by horrible relatioships. All of this thanks to you.

Please do not judge all your past work just as "enabling fornication" or "promoting sin."

Your work over the past 15 years has done a lot more good in the world than you may ever realise or imagine.

Yes, could not agree more. It has doubtlessly caused both good and bad, but I know God repeatedly states in the Bible that God treats the Good and Bad equally, and would never punish the innocent along with the bad even if it means the proliferation of many great evils. That is why He refused to destroy Sodom until Job was evacuated.

(05-23-2019 12:00 PM)Laner Wrote:  I think you are failing to give other men the same opportunity to find God as you did. Not everyone can find faith by isolating the evil and protecting them from it.

Personally, I think you will lead more men to faith through your leadership than by censoring many of the things that brought us all together in the first place. If I don't agree with a thread, I don't click on it. If I don't like a post by someone, I ignore it. If I don't like a certain poster, I don't read his posts.

I wish you the best on your journey of faith, but this is not the way to help the struggle than men are facing in this day.

Yes, agreed, but ultimately a man has to save his own soul first lest he is consumed by his vices. If Roosh finds the temptations of premarital sex too strong, or too disgusting to bear, then let him detox and decide if he will relax the rules again.

(05-23-2019 12:03 PM)This Is Trouble Wrote:  This place has changed thousands of lives.

Men in the West are still better off learning these skills and then adapting them to other parts of the world.

Hoping they go to church and figure it out is unrealistic.

Sometimes you have to walk the path of darkness to find the light, much like you have.

Yes, but are you going to start a forum and moderate it selflessly?

(05-23-2019 01:28 PM)Maximum Wrote:  Roosh, I totally understand where you are coming from, and by doing this you proved once again why you are probably the only manosphere personality that is completely honest (or at least striving to be), unlike most of the others that are mostly driven by money and fame.

With all due respect, please reconsider totally banning talk about pre-martial sex. As others have pointed out, having no sexual experience basically guarantees being a beta, unfortunately.

Also, based on my understanding, although pre-martial sex is not a good thing, it doesnt seem to be explicitly a sin. In Bible all the sexual sins are stated clearly and very in detail, pre-martial sex is nowhere mentioned. While not a good thing, it doesnt seem to be a direct sin, as most of the churches claim.

I know you dont like changing your decisions, but please reconsider lightening up a bit the new rules. I know for myself, if I havent came across your work and this forum I would probably right now be married to a single mom ten years older than me.

I fully agree, but ultimately we have to take care of ourselves first. We should respect Roosh's needs as well.

(05-23-2019 01:49 PM)stugatz Wrote:  Your forum, your rules. My two cents, for what it's worth from a mostly inactive low-rep poster.

I have been fairly active in a serious Christian social circle for the past two years or so. I have backed away lately for two reasons: a) the women are just as shallow, cliquey and Instagram-obsessed and b) the men are all wimps with zero game who have no idea to attract a woman, let alone keep her. I all too often don't want the company of the men for this reason.

Women want to feel excited. The city might be a cultureless, sex-obsessed blob of degenerates but they know how to do interesting things and have a good, exciting time. Christianity has been made fun of for such a long time in the West, it's officially something the squares in the suburbs do. (Why is something even more stifling like Islam looked at with respect and even awe? Easy - because it's different and exotic, and marrying a hot-tempered barback from Azerbaijan makes for a great love story. Some Catholic from Glencoe doesn't raise the blood pressure in the same way.)

It seems like the best way to land a quality woman is to learn game, get good with them first, and THEN look after making yourself into a catch.

It's fucked up, but this is the reality of the time we live in.

Yep, and it has always been this way, but at least in the past you wouldn't need to game more than 2 or 3 women into bed before finding a woman would be loyal to you.

(05-23-2019 02:13 PM)Axel99 Wrote:  How many aging players live a life full of regret at 40+ knowing that they never started a family and wasted their life with meaningless fornication? Virtually 100% of them. All roosh is doing is attempting to remove the sickness that a lot of guys have and prevent them from making decisions theyll regret later. I only wished you did this 6 years sooner roosh, I probably would have had a loving wife and kids by now. Dont let the haters dissuade you, you made the RIGHT decision.

Religious fervor after rediscovering one's faith buried in sin for so long is of course going to cause one to swing to the other extreme of behavior. We've all been there, and you are right that Roosh's changes would help some out, but also hurt those who want to more fully learn the truth.

(05-23-2019 04:42 PM)KMK Wrote:  Here's a thread that aged poorly:

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-47972.html

I'm happy someone dug out my old thread there, because it seems to be exactly addressing the issues Roosh is now having. Nowhere in that old thread did I state that promiscuous sex is good or right, quite the contrary.

But, if a man finds a woman beautiful and wants her and could spend the rest of his life sexing up a fine piece of ass, seduces her, and gives it his ultimate best to create a marriage with her - then I see nothing but good intentions here. The outcome is secondary to the purity of intent, which Jesus makes clear many times.

Creating love in a loveless world, even if it involves being a game-slinging cowboy who can wow the crowds and charm the panties off a girl into his wife, is not a sin. It may not be a virtue, but arguably creating love in a loveless world is indeed a virtue, just as being a warrior in an age of war was sometimes considered virtuous, even by the writers of the Bible, despite war mostly being innocent men slaughtering each other, not to mention the innocent civilians who were looted, raped, or enslaved. No man can control the circumstances he finds himself placed in, it is simply their lot in time to bear it as best they can while being a good Neighbor in the process.

Contributor at Return of Kings. You can follow me on Gab.

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05-25-2019 02:50 PM
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nek Offline
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Post: #638
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
(05-25-2019 10:17 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  You seem to be correct that the principles are relatively straightforward, but putting those principles to practice in the real world can be quite a challenge because sometimes guys will have to camouflage some of their intentions and direction in order to get compliance. Furthermore, if the girl does not perceive the guy as high value based on looks, income, social standing (and also if there are bad ratios of decent target women in a certain area as compared to a lot of seemingly eligible men), then it will be much more difficult to get her cooperation... Having the girl's cooperation tends to be quite helpful... lessens drama.

Why would guys have to camouflage their intentions? It seems weak, which is EXACLTY what women are trying to filter out.

Civilize the mind but make savage the body.
05-25-2019 02:52 PM
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Harem Scarem Offline
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Post: #639
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
I feel ambivalent about this. I'm also in the "long-time listener, rare caller" demographic, so take this with a grain of salt. People might balk at lurkers and such sharing their thoughts, but to me it just speaks to how much Roosh, ROK, and RVF meant (and still mean) to a far greater number of people than just regular posters. There are possibly tens of thousands of people in the world who have followed some of the essential discussions on platforms like this, without participating themselves. It has meant a great deal to a great number of people, so of course it's going to get reactions even though it's obviously true that it's Roosh's home and he must do what he feels it's right, even if we may disagree with it (and I do disagree). There are some aspects of this that are worth expanding on.

First of all, whatever we may think of this decision, it would have been far crazier and far more extreme if Roosh had kept the exact same worldview and the exact same activities from his 20s and continued them into his 40s. It reminds me of that famous John Lennon interview with Playboy in 1980, where he resents the people who only wanted him to get the Beatles back together, who only wanted him to be a nostalgic figure. People didn't understand that he had other interests in his 40s, which was understandable in itself, since those interests included voluntarily making love to Yoko Ono and becoming a beta househusband to her. But nevertheless it was his decision and what he felt he had to do, whereas all the superfans just wanted him to be their nostalgic bitch for the rest of his life, getting together with the other guys for an endless Beatles comeback tour, or, failing that, to give them just one more shot of that drug. This bit is golden and I quote it often:

Quote:"If they didn't understand the Beatles and the Sixties then, what the fuck could we do for them now? Do we have to divide the fish and the loaves for the multitudes again? Do we have to get crucified again? Do we have to do the walking on water again because a whole pile of dummies didn't see it the first time, or didn't believe it when they saw it? You know, that's what they're asking: 'Get off the cross. I didn't understand the first bit yet. Can you do that again?' No way. You can never go home. It doesn't exist."

To this day I think the legacy of the Beatles is better for the fact that they never did that. To Lennon, the Beatles was a thing he lived for in his 20s and which he then left for other pastures. To the superfans, the Beatles were a thing their entire lives revolved around, and they wanted this fairy tale to last forever, but instead Lennon literally sang at them that "The dream is over". That particular atheist song demonstrates that Lennon, in his public image, beliefs, and pursuits, was the polar opposite of Roosh in just about every single way, but I see a parallel in how an artist gets turned into a "thing", and people get butthurt when that "thing" ceases to exist, as if it would have been better for the artist to compromise and please the masses. No.

I also don't think Roosh is doing this to escape censorship and scrutiny. If anything, this kind of morality is even more damaging to the year-zero death cultists. In the Netherlands we have this nationalist-conservative politician Thierry Baudet, who recently wrote a book review in which he rather meekly criticised the individualism involved in widespread abortion and euthanasia. The media absolutely went ballistic. This guy is a potential prime minister and yet he holds views that go against the "Do what thou wilt..." that has been this country's dogma since the 60s. The more consistent you get in terms of conservatism and (cultural) Christianity, the more they'll attack you, because they thought those views had been pushed to the wayside.

It's for the same reason that I can't feel "betrayed" by this decision. I must admit that I was "lucky" to recently buy Roosh's collected works in ebook and audiobook formats, some of which are now no longer available due to this religious revelation. I spent $40 on that and $20 on gold membership here, which offers a bigger inbox and a name change, but no special privileges otherwise. It's mainly just a way of supporting a man for all his work so far and in the future. That's a total of 60 bucks spent on one man's wisdom that many so-called PUA coaches would charge hundreds or thousands for. Everyone who looks at it honestly would realise that Roosh could have monetised everything he did a thousand times over. He could have filled this forum with ads, charged far higher amounts for his books, etc.

Why would I feel betrayed because a man has now changed his mind on some of the things he wrote back then? It may differ per country, but where I live, $60 is less than one day's pay on minimum wage. $40 for the life's work combo is about half a day's work for a janitor or burger flipper. I have casually spent that amount on far dumber shit far more often than I can count. How lame would it be to say: "I bought his game books, but I feel betrayed because he now no longer believes in them"? The books are still on my HD, they didn't disappear. The old content of RoK, RVF, etc. will remain accessible one way or another as well. How incredibly ungrateful it would be for me to feel betrayed just because I sent some money to a guy who has provided value to me in ways that cannot be expressed in dollar amounts, just because he now says things I disagree with, things that don't impact my life in any way, shape, or form. To say "I feel betrayed" in this context is like saying: "Your knowledge and life's work represents nothing more to me than an afternoon's work of cleaning the floor at McDonald's." To genuinely feel that way would be incredibly, sinfully ungrateful and selfish.

Now I've had the privilege of only getting into the ideas and concepts discussed on RVF in the past five years or so. By this time, the big-baller PUA stuff was already getting a lot of skepticism. Inner game and self-improvement was already big. It was up to the individual man to use it for his purposes, whether that was ONS, serial monogamy, or chaste marriage, either at home or abroad. RoK was already publishing traditional Catholic articles by Aurelius Moner. A clear sequence was already becoming established: knowledge of game involved knowledge of the nature of women. Knowledge of the nature of women led to the need for patriarchy. The need for the patriarchy led to the (re)discovery of religion. So a streak of often religious and patriarchal conservatism was already running through, even if it led to cognitive dissonance with the pursuit of sex for its own sake. It was up to the individual man to deal with that.

I do however disagree with the content of this decision and its implications. Even the staunchest Bible-believing Christians need to be able to talk about certain things unfiltered. They may say and do things that they will then also have to bring up in confession (or talk about it in some other context for Protestants), but to ban discussion of human behaviours, even sinful ones, is wrong-headed. To allow that is not to facilitate sin. Does a pub landlord facilitate sin unless he hangs a "no cussing" sign behind the bar and only serves lite beer? Will all bartenders go to Hell unless they cock-block every man who's about to hook up with a girl in his bar? Every man is responsible for his own conscience, but I think this is too rigid. It shows the zeal of the converted or born-again Christian. This desire to burn everything associated with the past in the cleansing fire and proclaim oneself "saved". The main pitfall of this is the possibility of extreme self-blame and self-hatred if you should ever relapse into old ways after all this. In reality, most of us go through life stumbling, getting up again, straying this way and that. That's not to say "Do what you want, a confession will make it OK again", but it's unlikely that a man can really do a 180-degree turn just like that. Our failings and weaknesses are part of us and who we are.

My concern about all this stuff (and it's a concern that you don't have to do anything with, since it doesn't matter to anyone if I keep lurking or posting or not) is what kind of Christianity we are dealing with here. A cursory glance at history shows that Christianity was not a beta or cucked religion. As I mentioned, there have been plenty of attempts on RoK and elsewhere to promote some kind of masculine Christianity as opposed to Churchianity. To ban words and topics with such a broad brush seems to carry the risk of instead promoting the morality of the church ladies who preach and judge as if women have any business preaching the gospel. It's the ability to talk about our actions and your desires in an unfiltered way that prevents us from going nuts. If the religious man in the room then says: "Your desire for fleeting sexual relations is a sign of effeminacy in you, so stop pretending to be this big baller PUA", then that is also an honest truth that should be conveyed in an unfiltered way and without further ado. But to throw the whole thing out of the window and say, "You can't talk about this!" is to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Another thing that I got out of the interview with E. Michael Jones is the difference in walks of life. Jones married early and they had a fruitful marriage, so his experience is completely different. He was able to live according to his convictions. Well what if his trad wife had cucked him and/or divorce-raped him in his 40s? Would he be the same man he is now? I highly doubt it. It would be great if people in that situation could just shrug it off and continue to live moral lives, but it is not so. The ability to discuss game and women openly, even for sleazy purposes, has undoubtedly enriched the lives of many such late-bloomers who only stopped being beta in their middle age. And that does not even mention teens and 20-somethings who are desperate today.

Obviously neither Jones nor any other sincere believer would say that fornication is OK in itself, but fornicating once is not the end of the world either. As Jones mentions often, even a serial fornicator might eventually fall in love with a woman, confess his sins, get married, and have a chaste marriage. Chaste marriages may grow out of dirty back-alley happenings. It would be great if everyone could unfailingly follow the right path from birth till death, but again, this is not social reality. I'm not a theologian, but the way I see it, God does not want us to sin, but he does offer us ways out of sin if we are contrite. It is dangerous to close down this path completely to people who are in a bad position and for whom just one fleeting moment of conquest could stop them from going Elliot Rodger. The old posts will still be there, but they'll be deprived of current advice for their situation from a community like RVF, because people will be censoring their language or disappearing from the forum altogether, because they disagree with these measures.

I agree with whoever it was that said that folks should supplement their reading with some Dalrock and not let this religious turn (which is positive overall) turn into some kind of chivalric morality. Of course there are traditional girls out there, and not just ones who only found religion after racking up a triple-digit notch count and having had five kids from three different men and several abortions. But it is frankly irresponsible to tell your 20-something incel or middle-aged divorce rape victim that girls like that are out there for the taking. You can't send those guys into the real world with a theory on women and game that in practice translates to "man up and put a ring on it", no matter how much people might deny it.

Finally, I do not think this situation can be divorced from the whole situation of the "manosphere" (I don't like that term, but it'll have to do). It's not a big secret that guys have been getting increasingly dark and angry about society, politics, the world, etc., and that the sphere is becoming increasingly inward-turned. It's why I was a bit worried about the implications of the "Clown World" memes, even though they are extremely effective at unmasking some of the year-zero death cultism. But it's just as easy to twist the genuinely funny memes towards genuine anger at the world. It's a bit of cognitive dissonance: "I'm not on my computer, hating on everyone and everything, hunched behind my desk, curling into a small and hateful creature. I'm actually laughing at this silly world from an elevated position!" The process of finding religion can be similar: to just completely despise the material world and everything in it and turn towards the spiritual. It's the implication of this that has kept me from being anything more than a lukewarm believer. In its worst form, it can become a thinly-disguised nihilism.
05-25-2019 03:16 PM
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The Golden God Offline
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Post: #640
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
It is Roosh's forum that he keeps alive with his own money for our benefit so it is undoubtedly his say in what ultimately happens here.

However, could a subforum with a warning of Roosh's current non-affiliation and a voluntary gate to enter be an option? Move the old posts into there, lock them and have a new section within for discussion with the rules enforced but with a little leave-way for men to get advice on dating. Perhaps make a post count requirement or only allow grandfathered in accounts to access it.

I'll still be around to see what is going to happen with the forum, but it would be a shame for all of the knowledge dropped on here over the years to disappear, and I believe that would be a way to avoid directly leading men into sinful behavior.

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05-25-2019 03:19 PM
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MrLemon Offline
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Post: #641
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
(05-25-2019 12:43 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  
(05-25-2019 12:16 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(05-25-2019 11:20 AM)Rush87 Wrote:  
(05-25-2019 10:57 AM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  
(05-25-2019 06:18 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  2) You don’t need to screw them to have some powerful learning experiences. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with going out and practicing your conversation skills at night, and you SHOULD be running multiple relationships at once up until the point you’ve seen enough of one of them to feel that they need to be considered for a potential spouse

Unless you're doing this as part of a marriage arrangement inside of a strict church setting - like Jehovah's Witnesses or Morons or the like - this will just get you friendzoned.

This could be opened up in a new thread, but I think this topic is up for debate. From my experience, you can absolutely game a standard western girl and keep her off the market without having sex with her. How long this can be done for though, I've never tested. I guess it's up for experimentation.

I know that you are trying to play within parameters, but seems like a dumb experiment to NOT escalate. Maybe I am jaded?

In my own experience, this question of "escalate" or "don't escalate" is missing the point.

The point is, WHAT IS YOUR GOAL in escalating? Are you doing this to get qet quick sex? Are you lying to yourself and to her? Or, are you doing it because you are 100% serious about finding a good wife, you are ready to take on the enormous burden of being a father and husband, and that woman it the one you want?

The problem with this forum is, you guys have gone so far over into the "Gaming" side of the equation, it has kind of twisted your view of life. Yeah, I know, it's a response to the nature of society, I don't criticize that, but still you are FAR FAR over to one side. Just come back to the middle a bit and stop theorizing.

Many of you have hardened hearts, and you can't be a good husband and father like that. A man must be strong and ruthless if needed in the outside world, firm but gentle and loving in his family. If you're going to get angry and resentful every time you have a few glasses of wine, then you should not have a family.

If you want to find wives, them make the decision that you are going to look for a wife. Forget all this talk and spend some time meditating, or talking to a priest, or whatever, and get your heart and your thoughts clear that you want to get married and what kind of woman will be a good match for you. And what kind of husband you intend to be to her.. Go to church. Go dancing, the old fashioned kind, not the orgy kind. What kind of changes are you going to make in your life to be that kind of man? How are you going to be a man who protects and serves your wife when she is weak and vulnerable carrying your child in her womb? What will you do if you have a child that is handicapped, sick, or injured?

I've said this before: a man who has decided to give up quick sex and is looking for a mate gives off a whole different aura. Women pick up on that instantly. It's phermones. You don't have to tell people. Just make your decision and let it be your new frame. The biggest problem in a lot of marriages is that the man hasn't made that decision, he just kind of slides into marriage accidentally, not because he's ready. Some woman maneuvered him into it because she wanted it so badly.

I personally don't believe that it's that huge a deal whether you have sex before marriage or not. I know many have strong beliefs about that, but I don't. When I met my wife, I wanted her heart and soul, I was burning for her. Not just sex. I knew she was the mother of my children. And vice versa. But yeah, the sex was huge because our blood was running for each other and we didn't care whether we had the marriage certificate or not. For me, the first time we slept together was the same as getting married. We had made our decision.

I also want to acknowledge that my experience is from 30 years ago. Even back then, it was getting harder and harder to find women who wanted to get married and be traditional. Now...you guys trying to find wives are definitely facing steep odds. Feminism has been incredibly successful at twisting the minds of young women away from marriage (which is good) towards career and slutdom (which is evil).

The only consolation is, I think that the younger women, 20 year olds, are swinging back the other way. Sure, they talk big about "equality" but I see in their hearts that deep down they want husband and children. The challenge is to help them shut out the siren evil call of Feminism from their lives.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2019 03:40 PM by MrLemon.)
05-25-2019 03:39 PM
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alphacentauri Offline
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Post: #642
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
The reason RVF towers head and shoulders above other PUA forums is that IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT PICK-UP.

You NEED the Lifestyle and Everything Else forums to foster good PUAs, because it's in the forge of these other forums that the solid man is built, for whom it is then easy to become a good PUA. While in the other PUA forums you just have stupid PUA tricks and one-dimensional players and incels.

So it's a mistake to think that you can take the Game/Travel forums from here and move them somewhere else. You will fail to recreate the RVF experience.

RVF is an all-or-nothing formula. So when Roosh says, "take the Game/Travel material and continue it somewhere else, but don't try to supplant RVF wholesale", he is setting up his successor for failure...

I've already said I respect Roosh massively, but the above criticism of his handling of the situation is blindingly obvious to me, so I couldn't hold my tongue... If I have sinned, forgive me for it.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2019 03:54 PM by alphacentauri.)
05-25-2019 03:52 PM
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asdfk Away
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Post: #643
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
^what we do not need for a forum for men improving their lives is the constant discussion about jew / race, the political cry-babies and religious finger wagging.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2019 04:21 PM by asdfk.)
05-25-2019 04:20 PM
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Blunt Offline
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Post: #644
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
I don't post much anymore but I want to raise a glass in this thread to Roosh and the RVF posters that I've appreciated over the years, a few of whom I've met, and others that I've only read. Some great men have passed through these halls and some are still here.

Like some have said here in this thread, my point in getting into game was never to have sex with 100 women or with women of X nationality or in X country, it was to figure out the dating game after college. I discovered Roissy* through a Google search and then Roosh from his blogroll. Or maybe it was the other way around.

But once you have it "figured out" how do you know when to stop? As Roissy put it in his first post:

Quote:
Endless Dating

April 9, 2007 by CH

How long is too long to stay in the dating game? The primary reason for the psychological unease and emotional instability of so many modem women and to a different extent modern men resides in the irresolvable tension between our ancient biological inheritance and the relatively recent emergence of the high-tech rootless world of unparalleled mate choice we now inhabit.

...

I do not think the current reality of endless dating can last. Something must give. Either humans will evolve into different social animals capable of withstanding decades of hookups and fragmentary relationships without turning to the comforts of cats and internet porn, or those people who serially date and delay childbirth will not have enough kids and natural selection will remove them from the gene pool as a failed experiment. Either way, change is in the air.

So I think I get where Roosh is coming from in some aspects, at least when it comes to not wanting to encourage more men to waste years and years chasing a dragon that they will never catch.

I think a lot of the men this forum has drawn end up going through a phase like Lermontov's Pechorin from a A Hero of Our Time. Capricious, endless conquests...

Quote:“I often wonder why I’m trying so hard to win the love of a girl I have no desire to seduce and whom I’d never marry.”

And I'm not criticizing anyone because I myself am still in this phase but I don't want to be here forever.

And Roosh, we appreciate all the crap that you've had to put up with in fighting the power to keep this community thriving over the years. I don't know if there is anyone else out there who would be willing to sacrifice so much of their 20s and 30s helping men develop when the result is constant media and corporate harassment.

I hope that the information that the men here have compiled will remain available to those men who need to take the journey themselves, either here or in archive form somewhere else. Some world events will require minor tactical changes but I think most topics of relevance to men as relates to women and personal development have already been well-covered.

And I hope that this will remain a place where "red-pill" men can network. I wish I had done more of that over the past few years but that's life. So maybe some posters here that are angry about the changes should take a deep breath and consider if the forum still could have value for them. And in any case, a new forum for discussing topics that don't conform to these new rules will pop-up, it is inevitable.

I'm a Christian too but I'm still figuring out how to use it to guide my lifestyle in this world. Marriage and kids has always been the endgame for me, but practically I don't know if I will ever "legally" marry a woman in the West given the strong financial incentives offered to women to destroy a marriage on a whim. I do want one strong and permanent relationship with the mother of my kids, so I will at least look forward to other's thoughts on how to keep such a relationship strong.


*I appreciate Roissy's work from before his white nationalist transformation. I think it's the same writer but it basically seems like a different person. It's sad that he went in that direction, though I guess it could be expected with some of his over-the-top sadism.
05-25-2019 04:20 PM
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alphacentauri Offline
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Post: #645
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
(05-25-2019 04:20 PM)asdfk Wrote:  ^what we do not need for a forum for men improving their lives is the constant discussion about jew / race, the political cry-babies and religious finger wagging.

No, you need all this too.

Because the man who isn't interested in politics isn't a man.

The ancients were ONLY interested in politics.

In Greece and Rome if you were not into politics you were a woman or a child. Or a fag.

Same as today.
05-25-2019 04:22 PM
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Post: #646
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
I think the "God pill" is an important phase in one's life.

But it too is just a phase. And it too shall pass.

Just as we were convinced that the turmoil of our teenage years would never pass (it did), or that the thrill of the chase as game-imbued young men would never pass (it did), or that the wisdom of being red-pilled cannot possibly be trumped (until we recognized God-pill), the God-pill is also a phase that will eventually be transcended.

It is important to note that each phase allows us to mature individually as men, to help us self-actualize, and to help us find our place in society as (hopefully) positive influences on others as we become wiser ourselves. There's the innate tendency to believe that whatever phase you're in will be the final realization, the "ah ha!" destination at the end of the road - at least it has always been that way with me - until it naturally does pass.

I'm most reminded of Bob Dylan. In the late 70s he found Jesus and became a very conservative religious man for a number of years, releasing several Christian albums. But then he too evolved beyond that away from strict orthodoxy, to (I think) one of general acceptance and love but of world-weariness at the same time.

My hope is that this place will continue to evolve but always remain an open forum for those in each phase and step of his life to grow, develop and gain wisdom as he self-actualizes through self-reflection, taking action and listening to the wisdom of others.
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2019 05:12 PM by monster.)
05-25-2019 04:32 PM
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RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
^This is ridiculous. You have 0 influence over politics as an individual. You can have influence if you dedicate your life to it. But otherwise you have no influence and therefore your opinion is irrelevant. Politics is for peasants.
05-25-2019 04:33 PM
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Post: #648
RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
(05-25-2019 04:33 PM)asdfk Wrote:  ^This is ridiculous. You have 0 influence over politics as an individual. You can have influence if you dedicate your life to it. But otherwise you have no influence and therefore your opinion is irrelevant. Politics is for peasants.

That's precisely the ideology that leads a patriarchy to become a matriarchy. Thank you for summing it up for us.
05-25-2019 04:37 PM
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RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
Hey Roosh, are you going to delete the travel forum or just lock the threads? Or if anyone else knows this, let me know pls.

http://www.rebornmasculinity.com
05-25-2019 05:06 PM
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AnonymousBosch Away
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RE: NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum
On a lighter note, the outcome could have been much worse:

[Image: r2dyzd.jpg]
05-25-2019 05:08 PM
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