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Looks vs. Game
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Vicious Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Looks vs. Game
(10-15-2011 06:13 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  In fairness really broad topics like this could use a stickied thread, yes users should search first, but this is the Internet, expecting people (especially new people) to do what they're supposed is wishful.

Isn't this forum supposed to be for people that have a genuine ability and ambition to rise above the general "feed-me" masses. In all fairness, I can't see how someone that doesn't have the patience and discipline to search around on a web forum has any future in game to begin with?

I know I'm harsh here and ultimately it's Roosh call, I just know that I would rather have 1 quality poster making the right moves than 10 expecting to be spoonfed.
10-15-2011 08:03 PM
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Chad Daring Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Looks vs. Game
Yes, it is, but there's no way to ensure that everyone that signs up fits that bill

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10-15-2011 08:16 PM
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Tuthmosis Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Looks vs. Game
(10-15-2011 08:16 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  Yes, it is, but there's no way to ensure that everyone that signs up fits that bill

Yes there is. Members have to self-police, abstaining from participating in repeat, tired topics. Sure a few newbs might respond, but that won't make for a multi-paged thread that feeds itself.

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10-15-2011 08:40 PM
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Hokie30 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Looks vs. Game
Looks matter a lot, especially in competitive cities like DC. If looks didn't matter and only game mattered i'd be getting HBs left and right. For every 10 girls I approach in bars/clubs 9 of them dissmiss me and Im sure its not because of my bad verbal game...no matter how much I practice game it can only help so much if one is a mediocre looking guy (I certainly don't match the definition of a tall, dark, handsome).
10-15-2011 09:22 PM
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velkrum
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Post: #30
RE: Looks vs. Game
Hokie

Have you maxed out your potential?

Meaning are you ripped or jacked?

Do you look fly? (Hair, clothes, accessories, ect)
10-15-2011 11:53 PM
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UrbanNerd Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Looks vs. Game
I know, I know....why don't I let this thread die instead of replying to it??...'cause I didn't answer the other similar threads and I won't post much in this one, BUT.....

I thought it was a "given" that looks mattered regardless the other factors or money or game. Although, there are steps to take to enhance your outward appearance, there is ALWAYS the fact that a female STILL may not like your looks. Looks should be something that if you know you have done all you can and/or satisfied with...you pretty much forget about that and concentrate on enhancing the other areas of yourself.

A guy has to understand that while they can control their physique, skin and smile, they still cannot control their height and frame. Also a guy HAS to understand the females have so many varies tastes that it is impossible to account for everything. Just take a look at the "desired physique" threads on this site. Basically, everyone was right. Some women like the buffed body-builder type and some like the slimmer toned guy.

My point?....enhance what you CAN control physically but AT THE SAME TIME, work on your GAME and your MONEY. Also work on putting yourself in the best scenario to get a chick which includes: locale, type of chick, quantity of chicks, etc.

A bit about myself....I am not the flyest-looking guy nor the best looking guy but I try to fit in some time to keep my outward body stature in tact (I am 6'0", 200). Now I "work my angle"...which is more of the "selling dreams like I will be a beta-provider until I get the panties" which of course uses money (or making the chick THINK she may get money).
10-16-2011 01:04 AM
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Post: #32
RE: Looks vs. Game
A highly respected forum member should write a manifesto explaining to newcomers the views this forum has on a guys looks. And then sticky it.
10-17-2011 03:41 AM
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mangadooza Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Looks vs. Game
Looks only matter if you're in the bottom or top 10% of men in appearances. If you're in the top .001%, meaning you are even more attractive than the vast majority of other male models and celebrities, you can pull off a lot of stuff.

YouTube the interview of model Gabriel Aubry. He's an interesting case study of a guy with zero verbal abilities and game being able to ride fully on his looks -- he fucked Halle Berry and Kim Kardashian.
10-17-2011 07:47 AM
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XXL Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Looks vs. Game
(10-14-2011 04:21 AM)Anonybrit Wrote:  I'm torn between believing that and actually thinking that at the end of the day it really does come down to looks. I'm not talking about myself particularly, I'm a little above average and with a little age and weight to me I can push myself right up but I don't club and I'm not really look for casual sex so I'm just talking in general

...


So my question is... for the average guy who isn't a Hollywood actor or otherwise very high status, does it really boil down to looks and a bit of game or are girls really that turned on by personality that they will go with a 7/10 with great game over the bland 9/10 dude?
ahhh.. the classic looks debate : ))

shit is simple.. if you're super fucking awesome guy then your looks doesn't play big part in your game. as long as you relate to her like a man to woman, you can lead her, you stay true and honest, you're total badass, you're challenging, you can wake that adventurous side of her, you have balls, you can give her amazing sex experience, you understand social dynamics, you feel great with her, you can enrich her life by your presence. THAT'S WHAT SEXY. that's what make her crazy about you. you stand out sooo much it's ridiculous. so really it's personality what makes you THE SHIT.

like.. being the shit and looking not so handsome is WAY MORE BETTER than looking super handsome and not being the shit.

of course.. looks is helpful. but guys really need to understand that it's just a cherry on the cake. and "the cake" is badass personality that allows you to outgame any wishy washy dude who happens to be pretty

@Hokie
it's because you practice game and trying to "gaaaame" them aka you probably overdoing it aka you give quite a large fuck about the specific resposes approaching with frame "i really really want to meet you.. is that ok with you?" instead of having fun and being social & carefree
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2011 08:25 AM by XXL.)
10-17-2011 08:13 AM
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Hokie30 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Looks vs. Game
(10-15-2011 11:53 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  Hokie

Have you maxed out your potential?

Meaning are you ripped or jacked?

Do you look fly? (Hair, clothes, accessories, ect)

I haven't maxed out my potential but have come pretty damn close. I have a good job, wear designer clothes (not quite at GManifesto level though), and workout constantly. I was a ranked tennis player in HS, and could have made D-I team in college so have been in good shape most of my life. Since then to get an edge as well as challenge myself I have been bodybuilding. Some females (not good looking one's) have told me I should grow my hair out but then i'd have the blonde surfer look which I don't think fly's well in a stuffy city like DC and especially at my corporate job which is full of lawyers and accountants.
Now for the negative's I am relatively short (5-9") and have acne scars so am self-conscious about that. Also, my friends constantly tell me I should lower my standards if I wanna do better but alas I strictly believe in "quality over quantity" and that game can persevere....more times than not it is very frustrating and sometimes "evil thoughts" enter my head of listening to my friends and going the online route to look for a fatty Sad
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2011 08:34 PM by Hokie30.)
10-17-2011 08:32 PM
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Dash Global Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Looks vs. Game
(10-17-2011 08:32 PM)Hokie30 Wrote:  
(10-15-2011 11:53 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  Hokie

Have you maxed out your potential?

Meaning are you ripped or jacked?

Do you look fly? (Hair, clothes, accessories, ect)

I haven't maxed out my potential but have come pretty damn close. I have a good job, wear designer clothes (not quite at GManifesto level though), and workout constantly. I was a ranked tennis player in HS, and could have made D-I team in college so have been in good shape most of my life. Since then to get an edge as well as challenge myself I have been bodybuilding. Some females (not good looking one's) have told me I should grow my hair out but then i'd have the blonde surfer look which I don't think fly's well in a stuffy city like DC and especially at my corporate job which is full of lawyers and accountants.
Now for the negative's I am relatively short (5-9") and have acne scars so am self-conscious about that. Also, my friends constantly tell me I should lower my standards if I wanna do better but alas I strictly believe in "quality over quantity" and that game can persevere....more times than not it is very frustrating and sometimes "evil thoughts" enter my head of listening to my friends and going the online route to look for a fatty Sad

Im about 5'10 and it has never been a problem for me. I dont really game bitches that are 6ft soo that might be why. Target selection.

How bad are your acne scars on a scale of 1-5? Be honest.

If your scars are more than a few, obviously noticeable, and covering a decent amount of your face its gonna cause you some problems.

Might have to get some surgery done to fix that.

If your friends are telling you to lower your standards you prob need to lower your standards.

Back when I was younger 16 - 22 I had retarded standards. Only would talk to hb8+s. Needless to say I didnt talk to alot of girls and my friends got way more pussy than me. Even though I looked better and was more popular (had more social proof) than all of them.

Once I hit 22 I realized how stupid I was and now I cast alot larger net and get alot more pussy.

This doesnt mean you dont target or aim for hb8's and up. Try them first. It just means you have to be open and look to capitalize on any hb6 and up that appears DTF.
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2011 09:21 PM by Dash Global.)
10-17-2011 09:20 PM
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Chad Daring Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Looks vs. Game
5'9" isn't game changing short, you're on par with most guys, acne scars can be good bullshit fodder for funny stories. You cant change scars, so might as well own them.

And fuck your friends, its guys that give in and lower their standards that have gotten us into such a fucked up situation to begin with. Fat girls have attitude because there are still guys who will go out of their way to fuck them.

I think the surfer dude look could work in DC just because its different. When I go out close to the city all I see is spiked hair, spiked hair for days. And fauxhawks. If you're hair looks good grown out maybe its worth a shot, worst comes to worst just cut it off again.

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10-17-2011 09:33 PM
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megaframe Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Looks vs. Game
for acne scars, chances are it's possible to fix. at the moment, i'm getting laser treatment for mine.
10-17-2011 09:50 PM
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oldnemesis Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Looks vs. Game
(10-17-2011 07:47 AM)mangadooza Wrote:  Looks only matter if you're in the bottom or top 10% of men in appearances. If you're in the top .001%, meaning you are even more attractive than the vast majority of other male models and celebrities, you can pull off a lot of stuff.

Nope. This is always a sliding scale, not the expanding scale. You'll fuck different chicks, not more chicks.

For example, if you're too good looking, you're likely to scare away those girls who have very low self-esteem as they'd suspect you're just having fun at their expense - while an uglier guy would have no problems banging her. I have seen it myself.

Quote:YouTube the interview of model Gabriel Aubry. He's an interesting case study of a guy with zero verbal abilities and game being able to ride fully on his looks -- he fucked Halle Berry and Kim Kardashian.

You can see it in any cougar bar.
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2011 07:51 AM by oldnemesis.)
10-18-2011 07:51 AM
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oldnemesis Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Looks vs. Game
(10-17-2011 09:33 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  5'9" isn't game changing short

I'm 5'4.
Style is 5'6.
Tyler Durden is like 5'10 or so.
Stop making lame excuses.
10-18-2011 07:53 AM
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boxwino Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Looks vs. Game
I didn't read this thread but both help and feed the other.

Example: I never felt like I was a good looking dude but chicks think I am a good looking guy. Now before I studied game I'd get lays and had pretty decent intuition but a lot of times I was shy and worried about holding a conversation in which yeah I could get in the door but I'd fail miserably. After a lot of time studying game and women I found what worked for me and now I can get in the door and have the confidence behind it which gave massive results.

If you're not good looking and have good game and good style you can be what they call sexy ugly and do quite well. It's not really about being attractive with looks but just being an attractive person.
10-18-2011 04:10 PM
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Hokie30 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Looks vs. Game
(10-17-2011 09:50 PM)megaframe Wrote:  for acne scars, chances are it's possible to fix. at the moment, i'm getting laser treatment for mine.

I think only raised scars are possible to fix via laser treatment, if they are "crater like" then there is little one can do to "fill" that skin. I thought that perhaps a chemical peel might be helpful but I am worried about my face looking like a tomato and missing extended period of work time. Has anyone had that done here?
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2011 09:59 PM by Hokie30.)
10-18-2011 09:59 PM
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CPG Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Looks vs. Game
Quote:Looks only matter if you're in the bottom or top 10% of men in appearances.

There's some definite truth to this: OKCupid's staff did some statistics comparing the physical attractiveness of guys vs how often girls messaged them.

The conclusion: the top 5% of the guys were the only ones who got consistently messaged by girls, and a guy at the 90th percentile barely got messaged more than someone at the 70th percentile. That means that 95% of guys need a strategy not involving looks online.

Online dating is a different animal of course, and there's a friendlier curve in real life...though I wonder if the late-night bar sausage fests are closer to online dating in that your looks don't count for much when there's a 100 guys hitting on them.

Another interesting OKCupid looks study is on how guys and girls rate each others looks: men see girls on a bell curve (where most girls are average with a handful that are either really hot or really ugly...go figure), while girls have this skewed curve of ratings where most guys are ugly to below average and only a select portion rate as average and above.

Quote:I think only raised scars are possible to fix via laser treatment, if they are "crater like" then there is little one can do to "fill" that skin. I thought that perhaps a chemical peel might be helpful but I am worried about my face looking like a tomato and missing extended period of work time. Has anyone had that done here?

I had some acne scarring and sun damage to my face that I wanted to work on, and I tried using a glycolic facial. It faded some of the scarring to where it's barely noticeable now, and as an added bonus helps me look younger...girls consistently guess that I'm mid-20's, and when I've been clean-shaven I've heard a few even say early 20's (compared to being closer to 30).

I'd recommend ordering glycolic acid 35% online, and to avoid looking red be careful to only leave it on your face for a minute the first time you use it...you'll only get visibly burnt if you use a too heavy dose and/or let it sit too long. If your skin is super-sensitive, maybe try a weaker dose.
10-19-2011 11:34 AM
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Hokie30 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Looks vs. Game
Thanks CPG, did you notice a noticeable improvement after the first application of Glycolic Acid or it took multiple attempts. Also, how long was the "recovery period" before you were ready to "go out".
This is the bottle I plan on purchasing.

What do you think?
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2011 08:01 PM by Hokie30.)
10-20-2011 08:01 PM
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Jarocho2003 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Looks vs. Game
No direspect to those with huge verbal game, but I think a lot of the talk is bullshit. If you don't have your looks down, you're going to struggle to even get even a negative reaction to your approaches. I just started "cutting" at the gym 3 weeks ago and in only that small amout of time, I've been more chicks look my way than before it.
Looking better also gives me a nice natural boost of confidence I need to carry around to talk to all types of bitches.

Now, don't get it twisted, you can look fine as fuck as guy to a girl, but if you stumble and stutter with the girl, then prepare to masturbate cuz you ain't gonna get any pussy.

So if you were to put on a balance looks and game, I would still lean towards looks since that would get me in the door a lot quicker than just having game. Of course, there is other shit, like how much is in your wallet, status, etc that go into the equation, but for the sake of simplicity or in this case looks are more important.
10-20-2011 08:24 PM
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mikeymike Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Looks vs. Game
(10-19-2011 11:34 AM)CPG Wrote:  
Quote:Looks only matter if you're in the bottom or top 10% of men in appearances.

There's some definite truth to this: OKCupid's staff did some statistics comparing the physical attractiveness of guys vs how often girls messaged them.

The conclusion: the top 5% of the guys were the only ones who got consistently messaged by girls, and a guy at the 90th percentile barely got messaged more than someone at the 70th percentile. That means that 95% of guys need a strategy not involving looks online.

Online dating is a different animal of course, and there's a friendlier curve in real life...though I wonder if the late-night bar sausage fests are closer to online dating in that your looks don't count for much when there's a 100 guys hitting on them.

Another interesting OKCupid looks study is on how guys and girls rate each others looks: men see girls on a bell curve (where most girls are average with a handful that are either really hot or really ugly...go figure), while girls have this skewed curve of ratings where most guys are ugly to below average and only a select portion rate as average and above.

Interesting how the sexes break down each others looks... so does that mean that when you get that cheesy message on okc that says you no longer have to troll among the bottom feeder chicks and get to see the ones worth looking at cause you're one of the good lookin folk, that that is actually based on something and not just you've been here long enough this should keep you coming back?
10-20-2011 08:27 PM
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metalhaze Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Looks vs. Game
any guy who doesnt take care of his physique, look and style is shooting himself in the foot.
10-20-2011 08:34 PM
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velkrum
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Post: #48
RE: Looks vs. Game
(10-20-2011 08:24 PM)Jarocho2003 Wrote:  No direspect to those with huge verbal game, but I think a lot of the talk is bullshit. If you don't have your looks down, you're going to struggle to even get even a negative reaction to your approaches. I just started "cutting" at the gym 3 weeks ago and in only that small amout of time, I've been more chicks look my way than before it.
no disrespect but only a guy who is reaction seeking/trying to impress or looking for approach invitations as a form of initial approval to do an approach is putting a lot of importance on his looks. only that guy.

the guy who just does his thing doesn't think like that. he doesn't look for IOIs. he just does what he wants at the time.

example.. in the club i see girl walking by and i grab her hand, pull her in, have a killer eye contact, smile seductively, say 'i choose you', she's asking me questions giggling and i move her to some dark corner saying 'come here', we standing very close each other about to make out.. you really think that better looks would help me there in some kind of way? fuck no. she's so surprised i go in there hard out of nowhere and here i am close to her subcommunicating all the right things and i tease her, fuck with her, show her i'm cool, not needy and so fucking care free while still staying strong & icy badass. that presence/personality surpasses looks soooooooooooo much it's crazy. chicks call me handsome and that i'm great dancer (both are bullshit) just because i step up to them hook them hard.

in the opposite when i first look for her "oh he's kind of cute" invitation/smile or any kind of perfect moment before the approach and then decide to go in i suck cause now i'm following not leading, i'm in her frame not in mine so basically i become another fucking chump nice guy who adapts to her from the start. i know i know.. that approach looks better, it looks more smooth nice and very polite and shit.. but it doesn't work the way i like. ouch

i know whatever thing i got with my looks i have to own it. it's obvious right? when i had belly i knew i couldn't fake not having. i couldn't hide it cause i'd be exposed very fast. i had to be upfront about it and accept it and got my ass to work out

PS. by the way i'm not discrediting working out cause that is a must. i do beachbody insanity myself. however i do it for my health
(This post was last modified: 10-21-2011 04:02 AM by XXL.)
10-21-2011 03:50 AM
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Post: #49
RE: Looks vs. Game
^^

How many times have you been slapped from that first routine you described?
10-21-2011 08:18 AM
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Jarocho2003 Offline
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RE: Looks vs. Game
(10-21-2011 08:18 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  ^^

How many times have you been slapped from that first routine you described?
Dude is high on something because any player with some traveling experience knows that you can't do that in your face type of shit unless you wanna end up in jail with bobba.
I hear a lot of talk about guys saying that their game does this and it does that, but as far as I'm concern the top two cats on this forum who are legit have above average looks and take good care of their image. Image is huge and part of it includes your physique. Otherwise, why would you see so many fine bitches with good looking guys (muscled up and shit)?
But working out is done for all types of reasons not just pussy. It shapes your body, makes you stronger, makes you testorone levels go up, and you are healthier.
I just my opinion...you go out there and see for yourself and check if I'm lying or not...looks matter!
10-21-2011 11:09 AM
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