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Amazon installing Alexa speakers in brand new homes/hotels with no opt out
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nomadbrah Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Amazon installing Alexa speakers in brand new homes/hotels with no opt out
Wait until it's all electric cars dependent on charging stations if you can even control your car at that point without an AI.

"Your transport privileges have been revoked".

Go build your own electric car AI road system you communist!
06-10-2019 06:52 PM
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MrLemon Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Amazon installing Alexa speakers in brand new homes/hotels with no opt out
(06-01-2019 03:08 PM)Belgrano Wrote:  [Image: tekton-claw-hammers-30303-64_1000.jpg]

The original "opt-out".

I was thinking about having a small catapult installed within range of the Bezos mansion. Let's see how he likes a continuous rain of Alexa projectiles taking out his solar roof.
06-10-2019 06:59 PM
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MrLemon Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Amazon installing Alexa speakers in brand new homes/hotels with no opt out
(06-02-2019 03:41 PM)Zep Wrote:  Another thing, if this stuff bothers you as much as it does me, just buy a device and learn to beat it.

I learned two years ago how to stop a cell phone, it's easy, wrap it in two layers of tinfoil. Then try to call your phone from another phone in the same room, your phone won't respond. If it does, wrap it in a third layer, at some point it won't respond. This solves the reception problem.

It won't solve the 'listening' problem. I tried sticking my cellphone, in the cupboard, under my bed, putting it in sealable tupper-wear, forget it, it is so sensitive to vibration that it picked up my voice no matter what I did. Soooo, I just thought of something I'm going to try right now.

Just went to the store and bought some tinfoil, wrapped my phone twice and tried speaking, it picked up my voice but will lock out transmissions, incoming. Then I turned on pink noise that I have as an mp3 on the phone, let it play through the phones speaker, then wrap it in tinfoil. Had a person call me, it would not receive calls or texts and it would not hear anything I spoke into it because of the pink noise.

There you go. The wifi becomes useless, and so does the ability for the phone to listen to you.

You know, there's a nice little neighborhood business here. "Cones of privacy" for the average home.
06-10-2019 07:15 PM
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Wreckt Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Amazon installing Alexa speakers in brand new homes/hotels with no opt out
(06-10-2019 07:15 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 03:41 PM)Zep Wrote:  Another thing, if this stuff bothers you as much as it does me, just buy a device and learn to beat it.

I learned two years ago how to stop a cell phone, it's easy, wrap it in two layers of tinfoil. Then try to call your phone from another phone in the same room, your phone won't respond. If it does, wrap it in a third layer, at some point it won't respond. This solves the reception problem.

It won't solve the 'listening' problem. I tried sticking my cellphone, in the cupboard, under my bed, putting it in sealable tupper-wear, forget it, it is so sensitive to vibration that it picked up my voice no matter what I did. Soooo, I just thought of something I'm going to try right now.

Just went to the store and bought some tinfoil, wrapped my phone twice and tried speaking, it picked up my voice but will lock out transmissions, incoming. Then I turned on pink noise that I have as an mp3 on the phone, let it play through the phones speaker, then wrap it in tinfoil. Had a person call me, it would not receive calls or texts and it would not hear anything I spoke into it because of the pink noise.

There you go. The wifi becomes useless, and so does the ability for the phone to listen to you.

You know, there's a nice little neighborhood business here. "Cones of privacy" for the average home.


(((They)) will never allow this, and you know it.
06-10-2019 07:17 PM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Amazon installing Alexa speakers in brand new homes/hotels with no opt out
(06-10-2019 03:16 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  
(06-06-2019 04:55 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  ^Not this Ayn Rand garbage again....

If this comment is representative then you contribute to this forum like Instagram "models" contribute to the canon of art.

(06-06-2019 11:19 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  VV is debating about why the horse has bolted rather than what to do about it.

The premise is that if Google, Apple, Amazon and Microsoft managed to build their unstoppable oligarchies without government help then that would be just fine.

1. I see no evidence of any of these companies being 'unstoppable', even with the corporate welfare they receive (which I oppose completely).

That makes it harder for them to succumb to competition of course, but they're not given true monopoly status—which would mean a complete bar from competitors entering the field—just help from the state in the form of grants and tax credits (which, again, I oppose vehemently).

Many companies were thought to be too big to fail until they were pushed out by more innovative competitors (study the steel industry in America) or failed to respond to shifts in demand. But when it comes to Amazon et al the refrain is always "not all companies are like that!" (NACALT). "This time is different!"

2. You mistakenly and very dangerously imply a divorce of ideas from practice as if one has nothing to do with the other ("horse has bolted...")

The current use of state power to legislate or allocate funds in favor of one group at the expense of others both extant and potential is the direct, logical consequence of a population who thinks it's proper to do business down the barrel of a gun. And rather than removing the poison, we're asked to believe that taking more of it will resolve the symptoms.

So using your analogy, to get the horse back we'd have to leave the stables open and leave the others horses unfettered while we go chase down the errant steed.

Quote:Or the premise is that it would have been impossible for them to build their unstoppable oligarchies without government help.

That's correct. And it's not a premise, it's a matter of historical record that all coercive monopolies come into the status of monopoly with government help, and influence peddling.

Quote:In any case it's irrelevant.

It is more relevant than it has ever been.

Quote:We are here in the now and we play the cards we've been dealt.

Certainly.

But unless you want to keep getting bad hands in perpetuity you should examine why you're being dealt those hands and endeavor to understand (and help others understand) the ROOT CAUSES so that you can eliminate them.

I'm all for taking antibiotics once you've caught the clap but if you keep raw dogging everything in sight is more and stronger antibiotics to ever more resistance strains of bacteria the 'practical' solution? Or maybe you should simply use a condom.

(If you'd a told me a few years ago that I would write that paragraph I would have laughed in your face lol)

Quote:Americans elected someone they hoped would bring these giants down though Randians apparently fear the same antitrust laws will somehow be used against Mom'n'pop ice-cream stores Huh

You're desperately confused, yet again.

In the first place, it's "objectivists". Smile

And second, anti-trust laws are not the way to 'bring giants down', if that's what you think needs to happen. Although I explained previously why bigness as such is no cause for alarm, provided that size was reached honestly (which in the case of Amazon it of course was not), if you REALLY want to avoid abuse by large companies, you have to leave the market free for competitors to enter and undercut them when they're acting in the way that the public disapproves of.

Voting in anti-trust laws, which you have to admit if you've ever scanned through them at all are incredibly broad, or voting in a president who promises to disband companies of an arbitrarily large size, are all nowhere near as effective as voting with your wallet for a better alternative.

You say well Amazon is a huge monopoly you can't not use them! Sure you can. I buy supplements from iHerb. I buy groceries from Fair market when I'm in the states (a competitor to whole foods).

If Amazon were THE ONLY option then we'd have something to talk about. But this whole conversation is fueled by a mix of economic ignorance and understandable but ultimately unfounded paranoia. If you want to be paranoid about something worthy of that emotion, be paranoid of granting the government even MORE power to stick its tentacles into the free market. You'll wind up with more Amazons and Microsofts (who, by the way, was brutally raped under the antitrust laws for no objectively discernible violation that I've been able to ascertain).

Quote:Where things go from here is the question. You have a service which by it's nature pushes towards a monopoly and it now has the power to play kingmaker meaning all laws regarding constraints on government or subsidy by it are irrelevant. From this point forward information control is so tight that nobody without Zuckerberg's blessing or at least his disregard will have a shot at election anywhere in the first world. Most people get their info from Facebook now, which can selectively bombard everyone with carefully hand-picked "crowd sourced" propaganda no matter how blatantly false it is because they can still claim they're a platform, not a publisher, and not more than a handful of congressmen will ever stand up to them now because they know it's suicide.

It "pushes towards a monopoly", or it IS a monopoly? Or "oligarchy" as you call it. Start by defining your terms more clearly and then you'll be better able to make up your mind.

A coercive monopoly means that one player can bar new entrants from their industry. No such situation is in play. There are many competitors to Amazon (some much better than amazon) across virtually every one of their verticals.

Cloud hosting - I don't use Amazon for any cloud hosting stuff except a legacy mail server sitting on an EC2 instance that was a pain in the balls to configure and is a pain in the ass to maintain.

I'll take digital ocean, stackpath, and a list of others any day over AWS.

Online shopping - Like I said you can get supplements and crap from China in a zillion other places.

Alexa - First search result I found (using duckduckgo by the way) shows 3 competitors to Amazon's in-home products:

http://seeromega.com/amazon-alexa-pros-c...mpetitors/

I bet there are a dozen others. YOU CAN BUY ANY OF THEM THAT YOU WANT!

Mindblown2

Books - Dozens of other platforms including selling them directly yourself.

The other point you made about Zuckerberg and Facebook information manipulation may be valid, but just because most people consume info on social media doesn't mean that it has monopoly status or anything close to it I'm no fan of Facebook, Zuckerfeld, Twitter or any of these SJW cucked platforms but this murky, poorly supported, economically ignorant, anti-capitalism, anti-progress, pro-statism conspiracy theory poppycock has got to stop.

[Image: 200w_d.gif]

I'm going to admit that I only skimmed this because I generally refuse on principle to read posts with that many quote bubbles but even just skimming it is enough to get the sense that you don't really understand the situation in the slightest, and have no clue why your supposed free market principles have never prevented oligarchies and never will.

If you can grapple with the reason why Roosh and others have been banned/deplatformed from multiple independent services within mere minutes of one another then you'll start to wise up.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
06-11-2019 07:18 AM
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VincentVinturi Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Amazon installing Alexa speakers in brand new homes/hotels with no opt out
(06-11-2019 07:18 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I'm going to admit that I only skimmed this because I generally refuse on principle to read posts with that many quote bubbles.

Is this really the caliber of your intellectual approach? That for some unspecified reason you find quote bubbles distasteful, and because of that, you openly admit that you haven't read what I wrote nor have any inclination to do so. And you call this standing on principle?

Quote:but even just skimming it is enough to get the sense that you don't really understand the situation in the slightest, and have no clue why your supposed free market principles have never prevented oligarchies and never will.

If you really believe that to be true and have the evidence to support it, why not make your case rationally and bring me (and anybody else who's interested) around to your point of view through good old fashion persuasion?

I'm open to having my mind changed. But you're doing a bad job of it.

You seem to prefer to take an arrogant position in which you can't be bothered to read replies because of quote bubbles; and on the basis of your 'skimming' dismiss what I wrote with no evidence asked for or given.

Quote:If you can grapple with the reason why Roosh and others have been banned/deplatformed from multiple independent services within mere minutes of one another then you'll start to wise up.

Is that supposed to be an argument?

Roosh being deplatformed is not proof of monopoly. I certainly don't think it's right but it doesn't prove the need for further government meddling in the economy (which is the end goal of all this trust busting).

If anything, it proves the need for less of it. Consider that Amazon wouldn't be in such a lofty position to dictate terms if it weren't for all of the tax-payer funded corporate welfare it's received that has allowed it to grow without the checks and balances of relatively free competition. And even then, it's not the only platform where you can sell your work.

Remember that I was banned from Amazon too, and from Gumroad, and from Stripe, and others. And like Roosh I found alternate means of selling and marketing my work. If no such alternate means existed then we'd be on the same page about the monopoly / oligarchy. But it's objectively not the case.

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(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 10:16 AM by VincentVinturi.)
06-11-2019 10:15 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Amazon installing Alexa speakers in brand new homes/hotels with no opt out
You've really got to work on that quote bubble thing.

Apart from the fact that a post is designed to be taken as a whole rather than a series of individual data points, if everyone did what you're doing then it would turn the quotations into unreadable garbage.

Let's take a look.

(06-11-2019 10:15 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  
(06-11-2019 07:18 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I'm going to admit that I only skimmed this because I generally refuse on principle to read posts with that many quote bubbles.

Is this really the caliber of your intellectual approach? That for some unspecified reason you find quote bubbles distasteful, and because of that, you openly admit that you haven't read what I wrote nor have any inclination to do so. And you call this standing on principle?

Wow. Really starting to get messy. Imagine if you once again responded to this response with yet another quote bubble.

Quote:
Quote:but even just skimming it is enough to get the sense that you don't really understand the situation in the slightest, and have no clue why your supposed free market principles have never prevented oligarchies and never will.

If you really believe that to be true and have the evidence to support it, why not make your case rationally and bring me (and anybody else who's interested) around to your point of view through good old fashion persuasion?

I'm open to having my mind changed. But you're doing a bad job of it.

You seem to prefer to take an arrogant position in which you can't be bothered to read replies because of quote bubbles; and on the basis of your 'skimming' dismiss what I wrote with no evidence asked for or given.

I'm sure you're starting to get the idea that the autistic method of responding to every sentence individually is a bad idea. Imagine arriving at this point in the debate and quickly trying to figure out what we were even talking about.

Quote:
Quote:If you can grapple with the reason why Roosh and others have been banned/deplatformed from multiple independent services within mere minutes of one another then you'll start to wise up.

Is that supposed to be an argument?

Roosh being deplatformed is not proof of monopoly. I certainly don't think it's right but it doesn't prove the need for further government meddling in the economy (which is the end goal of all this trust busting).

If anything, it proves the need for less of it. Consider that Amazon wouldn't be in such a lofty position to dictate terms if it weren't for all of the tax-payer funded corporate welfare it's received that has allowed it to grow without the checks and balances of relatively free competition. And even then, it's not the only platform where you can sell your work.

Remember that I was banned from Amazon too, and from Gumroad, and from Stripe, and others. And like Roosh I found alternate means of selling and marketing my work. If no such alternate means existed then we'd be on the same page about the monopoly / oligarchy. But it's objectively not the case.

Perhaps you're starting to understand why I'm simply not interested in dicking around with code for hours because you want to analyze a post word for word, line for line instead of doing what everyone else does and simply responding to the entirety of the post with one of your own.

This is common courtesy. There's nothing so incredibly insightful and nuanced that either of us is saying that it requires the careful literary cultivation equivalent to the mastercraft pruning of a bonsai tree. Neither are you dealing with drooling idiots who can't remember the quoted material five seconds after they read it, requiring them to be walked through it quote/rebuttal/quote/rebuttal/quote/rebuttal.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 11:58 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
06-11-2019 11:53 AM
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VincentVinturi Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Amazon installing Alexa speakers in brand new homes/hotels with no opt out
Yet again, you've advanced not a single argument, refutation, or piece of evidence in defense of your position, if you can call an incoherent combination of smug remarks and populism a position.

Instead you're taking up 1s and 0s going off about about quote bubbles and bonsai trees and how I choose to respond on the forum. You're also rather disingenuously framing it as a matter of courtesy to reply in the way YOU want me to reply and whining like a high schooler about what 'everyone else does'.

Any attempt to avoid having to think about the elements that construct an argument and determine whether or not it's tenable based on the constituent parts is evasion. And you cannot discuss things rationally by accepting conclusions which follow from conflicting or incorrect premises—your so called "responding to the entirety of the post".

And smearing people who can follow a logical chain as autistic because you can't be bothered to deal with facts (or read replies for that matter) demonstrates great intellectual laziness.

If you prefer an amorphous blob of text with no logical chain of evidence in support of the main point—if there is one—that's your business. But that's not how I discuss ideas—it's not how anybody who takes ideas seriously discusses ideas—and you're just going to have to deal with it.

Now how about we get back to discussing ideas?

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(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 02:05 PM by VincentVinturi.)
06-11-2019 01:49 PM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Amazon installing Alexa speakers in brand new homes/hotels with no opt out
(06-11-2019 01:49 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  ...
If you prefer an amorphous blob of text with no logical chain of evidence in support of the main point—if there is one—that's your business. But that's not how I discuss ideas—it's not how anybody who takes ideas seriously discusses ideas—and you're just going to have to deal with it.
...

Okay. I suppose the vast majority of people on the forum are just lazy idiots who are incapable of properly discussing ideas seriously, preferring instead to converse in inferior amorphous blobs of text.

Brah. Post however you like, but don't expect a reply unless you adhere to the common cultural standards of the forum. If you absolutely have to be ultra pedantic then add bracketed numbers to the quoted text and address the numbered sections below one by one. This million-quote-bubble nonsense is wearing out the scroll wheel on my mouse. I had to replace my last mouse back in the MMX days because of this.

I'm not telling you this because I hate you or want to make fun of you.

I'm telling you this because you're communicating in an unpleasant manner and I like to help people help themselves.

There's a reason that virtually nobody else on the forum does this.

Now I know you want to save face so I'm bailing on this thread never to return. You can cuss me out or ackshually me or whatever.

Cheers.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
06-12-2019 11:23 AM
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Post: #60
RE: Amazon installing Alexa speakers in brand new homes/hotels with no opt out
(06-01-2019 02:59 PM)Buddydowrongright2 Wrote:  And we call China a dystopia.

I live in China and I love it here. It is a sanctuary of sanity.
06-12-2019 11:38 PM
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flanders Online
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Post: #61
RE: Amazon installing Alexa speakers in brand new homes/hotels with no opt out
(06-01-2019 03:58 PM)LINUX Wrote:  I hate Amazon and I hate Google.

But 99% of men complaining about Amazon and Google also use Microsoft 10, which has a key-logger enabled by DEFAULT.

Just an FYI for those of you reading this complaining about privacy but too lazy to learn Linux.

Privacy goes both ways.

Seconded, also for any guys interested in using linux try to stay away from the obvious mainstream ones (canonical's ubuntu for instance) due to their attempts at telemetry.

(06-03-2019 04:21 PM)Kungfu Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 03:41 PM)Zep Wrote:  Another thing, if this stuff bothers you as much as it does me, just buy a device and learn to beat it.

I learned two years ago how to stop a cell phone, it's easy, wrap it in two layers of tinfoil. Then try to call your phone from another phone in the same room, your phone won't respond. If it does, wrap it in a third layer, at some point it won't respond. This solves the reception problem.

It won't solve the 'listening' problem. I tried sticking my cellphone, in the cupboard, under my bed, putting it in sealable tupper-wear, forget it, it is so sensitive to vibration that it picked up my voice no matter what I did. Soooo, I just thought of something I'm going to try right now.

Just went to the store and bought some tinfoil, wrapped my phone twice and tried speaking, it picked up my voice but will lock out transmissions, incoming. Then I turned on pink noise that I have as an mp3 on the phone, let it play through the phones speaker, then wrap it in tinfoil. Had a person call me, it would not receive calls or texts and it would not hear anything I spoke into it because of the pink noise.

There you go. The wifi becomes useless, and so does the ability for the phone to listen to you.

That might work as a scientific experiment but actually doing that as part of a regular routine is insanity.

What you built is called a faraday cage. Look it up guys. You can turn your entire house, car, or apartment into a faraday cage if you feel like satisfying your paranoia.

The physics behind it is not terribly complicated and mostly explains cell phone 'dead zones' in certain buildings and elevators which can act as impromptu faraday cages.

It's not that ridiculous to keep a cell phone inside of a faraday bag but if you rely on text messages they're not going to get through so utility is obviously limited.
06-13-2019 12:21 AM
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