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Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
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Emperor Constantine Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-07-2019 08:01 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  
Quote:Absolutely not. We venerate (respect) saints. We do not adore (worship) them.

What's the difference in practice therefore? One can make the semantic distinction. But what about the actions that distinguish?

I wish I could explain this well, although it’s difficult because this has never been a question for me. Although my family was not Orthodox, I was always been taught to treat certain people or things with reverence.

Here’s an example: on a military base when the national ensign is being raised or lowered, everyone who’s outside stops what they’re doing, stands at attention, and salutes. The people who fold the flag after it’s taken down treat it with extreme reverence; they treat it in much the same way as a priest treats the flesh and blood of Christ.

I once witnessed a screwup let the national ensign touch the ground while he was lowering it after we weighed anchor. One of the guys who witnessed it completely lost his cool; I thought he was going to kill the incompetent.

Despite the way we treat the flag, everyone knows it’s just a piece of cloth. But we have respect for the ideal that it represents and the people who have fought and killed for those ideals. So we treat the piece of cloth with reverence. At the same time, no one mistakes the American way, veterans, and the flag for a God. It's veneration, not worship.

It might look similar, just as running quarters on the track and running from the cops look similar, but they’re two different things that are easily understood in the minds of the people doing the running.
06-08-2019 09:45 AM
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Post: #52
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-06-2019 11:53 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  The Orthodox Church believes in the infallibility of the ecumenical councils. Tomatow tomatoe, but it's still infallibility. Though i'm no better because Lutherans feel similarly on certain early church councils.

I think the difference here is in how we use the word. Infallibility, as Catholics use it, refers to freedom from the possibility of error. The pope actually declares in advance that they're having an infallible council. I can’t say that church councils are infallible, because a whole lot of them taught error. We kept the 7 because we think they got things right, which I think is how you’re using the word infallible.

(06-06-2019 11:53 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  I task you to review again and look at what the councils were affirming. The early church had competing ideas on several things.

The Arians weren't technically heretics. They were talking what the bible was teaching literally. The trinity isn't mentioned anywhere in the new testament.

However the trinity can be inferred by what is written and Jesus tasks us with looking beyond empty ritual for more spirituality.

The councils were settling competing theological arguments.

Well, that’s where we’d disagree. As an Orthodox, I believe that the apostles handed down teachings to their successors, some of which -like the trinity- were not clearly explained in scripture. And I believe that the Holy Spirit guided the Church to preserve those teachings.

Naturally, I have no way to convince you of this, anymore than I could a nonbeliever that Christ resurrected. It’s definitely a leap of faith.

(06-06-2019 11:53 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Good talk! I enjoyed this.

As did I!

I’ll let the faith and works bit rest as I think other posters above have explained it much better than I could, and after reading your reply I’m not all that sure we disagree on it in the first place.
06-08-2019 10:05 AM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
The assumption is that pure faith will naturally lead to works. For example, if you have pure lust, and desire women, won't works come out of that in form of flirting with women and trying to bed them? If you put into man feelings of unbridled lust, it's impossible for lustful "works" not to immediately follow.

The same goes with pure faith. If your faith is pure, you will care more about your neighbor. You will have more sympathy for the unfortunate, and you will be less prone to anger. I see this happening in my own life. I used to immediately dismiss vagabonds and other solicitors, but I treat them with kindness, not because I believe treating them with kindness will grant me entry into heaven, but because that kindness is automatically flowing from the faith I have in a Lord that is treating me with supreme kindness and mercy. I'm treating others how I want to be treated, and also how the Lord treats me.

I deem it impossible to have pure faith without exhibiting some work, even subconsciously. It's like thinking of women all day but having no physical response when you see them in the flesh. If someone comes to me and they say they have pure faith, but they are willingly sinning, and show no effort to treat his neighbor kindly, and appear the same in presentation to an unbeliever through his acts, I would wonder about his claim, though I would not condemn him, since that is not my job. At the very least, I would not follow his example, because his faith is really a belief that has likely come from an emotional experience in his church where another man declared him saved. There was a crowd around him, and hands put on him, and he felt rightfully emotional, and then he was deemed saved, and is now using that lone experience to determine his eternal salvation. This is a very risky bet, because a church experience like that can be emotional without the Holy Spirit descending on you.

I do agree that works without faith is completely dead. But faith without works is simply not faith, it's just an intellectual belief. If you do have faith, your whole orientation changes--how you treat others, how you see others, and how you want to live your last days on this earth. Otherwise, you may just be hedging your bets.

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06-08-2019 10:48 AM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-08-2019 06:38 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  An excellent point, I am a protestant 'faith alone' guy but I believe works are important as they are the fruit of repentance and salvation.

First, internally, works as a result of receiving the gospel, is someone isn't motivated to change their lives, prune out the bad habits and improve themselves as the brother of Christ...do they really believe and have they actually taken to heart the words that Jesus said?

Second, outwardly, acts of ministry and charity. If you truly believe that you have received the greatest gift to mankind, for free, and that others can have it also, why aren't you sharing it? If you believe that we all suffer in a broken world and are prisoners of our own vices and sin, don't you have empathy towards other and a motivation to be charitable?

Third, Paul said that our own actions can be stumbling blocks to others new to the faith. The reverse is also true, our actions can show other people what it is like to follow Jesus.

Pastor Charles Lawson has some good sermon points related to this, and we should be careful as Protestants to get drawn into a 'Works don't matter all' mindset. Works don't matter for your own salvation, but they are a fruit of it as your own faith matures.

This is so true. I also believe "faith alone" gets you a secured place in heaven person. This can be a problem for modern Baptists who sometimes sin because they know the promise of salvation through faith.

BUT God is not mocked.

Quote:Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Galatians 6:7

We all know Christians who live a version of hell here on earth. Whether it be from health problems, addiction, strife, war, a bad marriage, debt, prision, mental anguish, worry, fear, disease, poverty, helplessness you will pay a price. God punishes Christians who know the Word but continue to run from God. I think He punishes people who know Christ and continue to sin than even more than non-believers. You will suffer and have no peace in your life.

Quote:“For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.”
King James Version (KJV)

Quote:scourge
n. A source of widespread dreadful affliction and devastation such as that caused by pestilence or war.
n. A means of inflicting severe suffering, vengeance, or punishment.
n. A small whip used to inflict punishment.

If this doesn't scare you I don't know what will. Messing with God is not a joke. This is why I like preachers who take the time to put the "fear of God" into their congregation. You might have your ticket in, but the journey there will be a miserable one. (I can personally testify to this in my own life.)

The good news is if we do follow his commandments he will bless us beyond measure.

Quote:28 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:

2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God.

3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.

4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.

6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

7 The Lord shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.

8 The Lord shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

9 The Lord shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, and walk in his ways.
Deuteronomy 28 King James Version (KJV)

The next verses (after verse 15) in the chapter tell us all the bad things that will happen and while I don't want to make this post too long I can tell you it's the opposite exact opposite of the blessings. So whatever you believe about how salvation works it's clear that it's a requirement that we follow His commandments.

I really look forward to meeting some of the men in this thread someday. It's only been around a week since the new rule change and look at the fruit it's bearing. (Glory to God) I know I've learned a lot.

It would be great to have a Bible study or a dinner with some of the Christians on the forum. Instead of racking up notch counts we'll be racking up "soul counts" haha.

If you guys are ever in Serbia give send me a PM and you'll be my guest.
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06-08-2019 01:58 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
A lot of Protestants in this thread mistaking their confusion for what Orthodox/Catholics actually believe.

Theology has more than 3 moving parts, guys. We've been doing this for 2000 years. If you think we said something stupid - trust me, it's your own ignorance preventing you from understanding, not your 'wisdom' seeing through something foolish. Much smarter men than you affirmed this. If you can't understand it, that's fine - but either read a book, or accept your ignorance, stop trying to tell us that we worship Mary, or Idols, or believe in Salvation through Works, or whatever other silly concept you project onto us.

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06-08-2019 09:12 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
Only a week ago I would have responded to this in a much different way. Christ says to judge by their fruits. If your words are your fruits they look pretty bad to me.

Instead of coming here to stir up strife between your fellow Christians you should ask yourself "Is this a good example of being likened to Christ?" You are an ambassador for your denomination and for Christianity as a whole. Do you think that speaking like this is a good testimony of your faith?

I could throw a bunch of Bible verses down about all the sinfulness in your comments, but then I'd be doing what I'm accusing you're doing and make myself a hypocrite. I forgive you for attempting to insult your fellow Christians and attempting to destroy the fellowship we've created here between multiple denominations.

I've always had a hard time controlling both my temper and my mouth but I notice if I pray before I respond to someone the reaction is much better. I don't like it when people say "I'll pray for you." because it's caddy and not always said in good-faith, but I hope you pray for yourself and that you learn to use your words more wisely when talking to people who wish to serve the Lord.
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06-09-2019 01:23 AM
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Post: #57
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-08-2019 10:48 AM)Roosh Wrote:  I do agree that works without faith is completely dead. But faith without works is simply not faith, it's just an intellectual belief. If you do have faith, your whole orientation changes--how you treat others, how you see others, and how you want to live your last days on this earth. Otherwise, you may just be hedging your bets.

Faith without Good Deeds Is Dead (Apostle James to the 12 tribes of Israel) James 2:17

17 So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.


You are saved by FAITH alone, not works! ( Apostle Paul to the Gentiles) Ephesians 2:8-9


8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.


This concept has always perplexed me - because they obviously contradict each other. How can they both be true?


Easy to understand when you realize that different books in the Bible were intended for different audiences - the Jews and the Gentiles.


The 13 books from Romans - Philemon were written specifically to the Gentiles and Body of Christ.

Not the Jews.


So its ALL truth - but might necessarily be your truth.

We are currently in the church age where grace is offered, but when the Tribulation starts it will take FAITH + WORKS.

This video does a good job explaining how to rightly divide the audiences the bible was intended for.



(This post was last modified: 06-09-2019 02:49 AM by Sosa.)
06-09-2019 02:46 AM
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Post: #58
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-09-2019 01:23 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  Only a week ago I would have responded to this in a much different way. Christ says to judge by their fruits. If your words are your fruits they look pretty bad to me.

Instead of coming here to stir up strife between your fellow Christians you should ask yourself "Is this a good example of being likened to Christ?" You are an ambassador for your denomination and for Christianity as a whole. Do you think that speaking like this is a good testimony of your faith?

I could throw a bunch of Bible verses down about all the sinfulness in your comments, but then I'd be doing what I'm accusing you're doing and make myself a hypocrite. I forgive you for attempting to insult your fellow Christians and attempting to destroy the fellowship we've created here between multiple denominations.

I've always had a hard time controlling both my temper and my mouth but I notice if I pray before I respond to someone the reaction is much better. I don't like it when people say "I'll pray for you." because it's caddy and not always said in good-faith, but I hope you pray for yourself and that you learn to use your words more wisely when talking to people who wish to serve the Lord.
PP

A great example of 'turning the other cheek', well done and better than what I would have replied with.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
06-09-2019 07:59 AM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
I have been confused on this for a long time. I've heard from many points of view, saved by works, saved by grace, saved by penance, saved by faith, some mutually exclusive, others not. I suppose you just have to choose one and stick with it to solidify your faith as a whole? This is probably my most painful struggle, more than any fleshly lure. Anyone here have any distinction to further Roosh's example? I was baptized as an infant, but many tell me I must do a second baptism in water now that I am an adult. This second baptism is essentially a religious act, but it is mentioned in the Bible as follows:

1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." there are no specific mentions of some kind of watery ritual that most evangelical churches would have you submit to. Can a man's soul be saved by belief alone? What makes me doubt the saved by faith is how all the sinners can continue sinning relaxed feeling that they are saved because they've done some little ritual, while others suffer eternally on the inside. I assume if you suffer internally extensively, then perhaps your soul is in trouble..
06-09-2019 08:23 AM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-08-2019 09:12 PM)Aurini Wrote:  A lot of Protestants in this thread mistaking their confusion for what Orthodox/Catholics actually believe.

Theology has more than 3 moving parts, guys. We've been doing this for 2000 years. If you think we said something stupid - trust me, it's your own ignorance preventing you from understanding, not your 'wisdom' seeing through something foolish. Much smarter men than you affirmed this. If you can't understand it, that's fine - but either read a book, or accept your ignorance, stop trying to tell us that we worship Mary, or Idols, or believe in Salvation through Works, or whatever other silly concept you project onto us.

Far too much pride and condescension here. This is not the proper tone one takes with a brother. This attitude is poisonous and is what leads to infighting between Christians, which we can ill-afford at this time when there is so much evil in the world to be confronted. We need to maintain a united front if we want to be successful in our mission of spreading the gospel. When we're tempted to cast aspersions at a brother over doctrinal differences we are best served to remember that regardless of how much we've studied scripture or church doctrines, all of our earthly spiritual understanding is imperfect. This is inevitable when finite beings attempt to grasp the infinite. As Paul wrote, as humans we only see through a glass darkly (1 Cor. 13:12). In the future, all will be revealed to us. Until then, we are bound to disagree over some issues. So let us be patient with one another, remembering our primary duty is to love God and each other, and that the blood of Christ unites us far more than doctrinal interpretations can divide us.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” - Romans 8:18
06-09-2019 09:01 AM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-09-2019 08:23 AM)MusicForThePiano Wrote:  I have been confused on this for a long time. I've heard from many points of view, saved by works, saved by grace, saved by penance, saved by faith, some mutually exclusive, others not. I suppose you just have to choose one and stick with it to solidify your faith as a whole? This is probably my most painful struggle, more than any fleshly lure. Anyone here have any distinction to further Roosh's example? I was baptized as an infant, but many tell me I must do a second baptism in water now that I am an adult. This second baptism is essentially a religious act, but it is mentioned in the Bible as follows:

Leaving the larger debate aside, what denomination are you with that's saying this ?

Personally, I would attend your baptismal church mostly on grounds of familiarity.

If your birth church has lost its way, then really it's up to you if you want to get another baptism with your new group. I was baptised Catholic, converted to Lutheranism, went atheist, and then found some Baptists who reingnited my faith.

They were very insistent on an adult baptism with me, but I felt that doing it again was akin to double stamping a book out from the library. I eventually went back to Lutheranism for different reasons.

It sounds corny but follow your heart in this matter.

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06-09-2019 12:33 PM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
I find the OP's question odd because it presumes that christians look at the bible like muslims look at the quran. What's weirder is that one can make an argument that that's precisely what happened to (western) christianity that thinks like this.

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06-10-2019 07:27 PM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
Quote:I find the OP's question odd because it presumes that christians look at the bible like muslims look at the quran. What's weirder is that one can make an argument that that's precisely what happened to (western) christianity that thinks like this.

Christians believe in the Bible being written with inspiration from the Holy Ghost. It is the Word of God. It is not of men.
What happened to Christianity is people stopped going to the Bible for answers and follow their religion instead. Any degeneracy you find in society today contradicts the Bible. Can we say the same for religion? No.

If Christians obeyed God's Word to the letter these problems wouldn't be prevalent in society. The Bible is too harsh for most Christians and they like to do things that make them feel good instead. (Myself included.)

I find a lot of things in the Orthodox and Catholic religions odd too, which is why I started this thread. After talking to some people about these things I realize I'm wasting my time. My Orthodox friends send me 5,000 word blog posts that I read carefully and in good-faith but when I show them quotes from the Bible or other resources telling them these practices contradict the Bible or what the gospel teaches they claim I'm attacking their religion. They also like to make me read their long explanations that play hide-the-ball with Scripture and mostly read resources like a yoga teacher wrote them but these people won't look at anything I send them.

I've been hearing the same arguments from my grandparents since I was a small child. They say they're not worshiping idols and play semantics as they are kissing the feet of a statue, praying to Mary, and kissing a picture of Jesus.

Imagine seeing someone you know bowing before another person kissing their feet and praying to them while saying "No, this isn't a person he's a symbol and I'm not worshiping him! This gets me closer to God." You'd think their actions contradict their words. Clearly they are contradicting what the Bible teaches but people want to do things that make them feel nice. I don't care about feeling nice I just want to follow the Bible and what it says.

Quote:Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 26:1

I can quote lots of verses on this but like people have said here they don't believe the Bible has more authority than the church and choose to follow corruptible men because they are "wiser than me" and "have been doing this for 2000 years". They may be wiser then me but they are not wiser than the Word. Basically they've been left to their own devices for 2000 years and I'm supposed to think that means anything. The Jewish religion has been around a few thousand years and look at them. Age of a religion is not a good measurement of anything except the time they've had to be corrupted by men.

When you want to look at a religion look at their fruits. If they have very few young people coming in (no new members), no ministry, if they just go to church on Sunday while praying to Mary or whatever and think that's enough they're wong. (The VAST majority of Catholics and Orthodox people I've spoken to to believe this.) Yes, I ask people this question.

If you want to "test" a church (or any Christian) ask them how to get to heaven. If they give you long convoluted answers and never name Christ dying on the cross for your sins they aren't an authority on Christianity, they are lost.

Anyway it was fun getting to know more about these religions. I'm sure now more than ever that I don't want to follow them or their practices.

I won't go to confession (a tradition traced back to Babylon and used to have leverage over people), I won't Baptize a 1 year old, (They haven't even chosen if they believe in God yet so it's silly to baptize Children, look up Baptism in the Bible and what it's for.) and I won't worship in a church full of statues and graven images. Most of all I won't follow a Church thinks it knows better than the Word of God.

Quote:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 3:13-17

Thanks for all the info here and attempting to answer my questions. I'll let you all know if my Serbian Orthodox church experience changes my mind at all when I'm back in Serbia but don't count on it.

Hope to see you all around sometime in person. Any of you guys are very welcome in my home. I hope you guys don't take my strong objections as me hating you or your religion or something like that. I look at all people who believe in Salvation as a Brother in Christ. I will pray for your protection and blessings.

PP
06-11-2019 05:31 AM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-09-2019 09:01 AM)scorpion Wrote:  
(06-08-2019 09:12 PM)Aurini Wrote:  A lot of Protestants in this thread mistaking their confusion for what Orthodox/Catholics actually believe.

Theology has more than 3 moving parts, guys. We've been doing this for 2000 years. If you think we said something stupid - trust me, it's your own ignorance preventing you from understanding, not your 'wisdom' seeing through something foolish. Much smarter men than you affirmed this. If you can't understand it, that's fine - but either read a book, or accept your ignorance, stop trying to tell us that we worship Mary, or Idols, or believe in Salvation through Works, or whatever other silly concept you project onto us.

Far too much pride and condescension here. This is not the proper tone one takes with a brother. This attitude is poisonous and is what leads to infighting between Christians, which we can ill-afford at this time when there is so much evil in the world to be confronted. We need to maintain a united front if we want to be successful in our mission of spreading the gospel. When we're tempted to cast aspersions at a brother over doctrinal differences we are best served to remember that regardless of how much we've studied scripture or church doctrines, all of our earthly spiritual understanding is imperfect. This is inevitable when finite beings attempt to grasp the infinite. As Paul wrote, as humans we only see through a glass darkly (1 Cor. 13:12). In the future, all will be revealed to us. Until then, we are bound to disagree over some issues. So let us be patient with one another, remembering our primary duty is to love God and each other, and that the blood of Christ unites us far more than doctrinal interpretations can divide us.

A true case in point was the lack of proper collaboration between Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism in repelling the Islamic Conquests.
06-11-2019 06:25 AM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-11-2019 05:31 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  Imagine seeing someone you know bowing before another person kissing their feet and praying to them while saying "No, this isn't a person he's a symbol and I'm not worshiping him! This gets me closer to God." You'd think their actions contradict their words. Clearly they are contradicting what the Bible teaches but people want to do things that make them feel nice. I don't care about feeling nice I just want to follow the Bible and what it says.

You realize this was common practice in the Old World, right? To kiss someone's feet as a sign of respect, and to ask them for things? That's basically how royalty and peasants interacted. Even in Christian countries, where the royalty weren't confused with God.

Although in the Church, we wait until people are dead to show this much respect for them, because people shouldn't be encouraged towards pride.

At Protestant churches I've been to, it's common practice to blast pictures of whoever recently went on a mission trip across the projector screen (which has naturally replaced the cross) then for the pastor to sing the praises of the whoever went on the trip. It looks like idolatry to me, but I realize that's not the intention of the people there. So I don't claim that protestants "are contradicting the bible."

(06-11-2019 05:31 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  I can quote lots of verses on this but like people have said here they don't believe the Bible has more authority than the church and choose to follow corruptible men because they are "wiser than me" and "have been doing this for 2000 years".

Or perhaps it's because the Church is the "the pillar and foundation of the truth." Or perhaps it's because Christ founded it to teach His message and feed His Flesh and Blood to His followers. Or perhaps it's because there would be no bible if it weren't for the Church. Perhaps it's because the Church has preserved the teachings of Christ and His apostles since day 1.

Or yeah, maybe it's the caricature you're painting.

(06-11-2019 05:31 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  When you want to look at a religion look at their fruits.

Like, say, the Russian Martyrs of last century? The current martyrs in the Middle East? The Orthodox Christians who have been slaughtered for their beliefs during every century of Christianity?

(06-11-2019 05:31 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  If they have very few young people coming in (no new members), no ministry, if they just go to church on Sunday while praying to Mary or whatever and think that's enough they're wong. (The VAST majority of Catholics and Orthodox people I've spoken to to believe this.) Yes, I ask people this question.

Rather, you'd like to judge by the most lukewarm members. Where do you find Catholics and Orthodox like this? Is it the same place I found health-and-wealth-gospel protestants who think they're saved as long as they went up at an altar call once?

We can't judge a religion by the way the worst of it's adherants. And that's part of why the Orthodox canonize saints, so that their example can be a light to all of us, not just the people who knew them personally.

(06-11-2019 05:31 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  Hope to see you all around sometime in person. Any of you guys are very welcome in my home. I hope you guys don't take my strong objections as me hating you or your religion or something like that. I look at all people who believe in Salvation as a Brother in Christ. I will pray for your protection and blessings.

I do not understand how you can call us your brothers in Christ on one hand, then act as if we're non-bible-believing idolators on the other, PainPositive.
06-11-2019 10:04 AM
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PainPositive Offline
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-11-2019 05:31 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  Imagine seeing someone you know bowing before another person kissing their feet and praying to them while saying "No, this isn't a person he's a symbol and I'm not worshiping him! This gets me closer to God." You'd think their actions contradict their words. Clearly they are contradicting what the Bible teaches but people want to do things that make them feel nice. I don't care about feeling nice I just want to follow the Bible and what it says.

Quote:You realize this was common practice in the Old World, right? To kiss someone's feet as a sign of respect, and to ask them for things? That's basically how royalty and peasants interacted. Even in Christian countries, where the royalty weren't confused with God.

Although in the Church, we wait until people are dead to show this much respect for them, because people shouldn't be encouraged towards pride.

You shouldn't pray to dead saints and ask them for things because they cannot give you anything. Where did Christ tell you to pray to dead men?

Quote:At Protestant churches I've been to, it's common practice to blast pictures of whoever recently went on a mission trip across the projector screen (which has naturally replaced the cross) then for the pastor to sing the praises of the whoever went on the trip. It looks like idolatry to me, but I realize that's not the intention of the people there. So I don't claim that protestants "are contradicting the bible."

Oh stop, kissing a statue and praying to a saint is nothing like viewing pictures of someone who went on a mission trip. This is a silly argument.

(06-11-2019 05:31 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  I can quote lots of verses on this but like people have said here they don't believe the Bible has more authority than the church and choose to follow corruptible men because they are "wiser than me" and "have been doing this for 2000 years".

Quote:Or perhaps it's because the Church is the "the pillar and foundation of the truth." Or perhaps it's because Christ founded it to teach His message and feed His Flesh and Blood to His followers. Or perhaps it's because there would be no bible if it weren't for the Church. Perhaps it's because the Church has preserved the teachings of Christ and His apostles since day 1.

People love to take this verse out of context and pretend it means the church is what gives us truth instead of the Bible. It doesn't mean that. They also ignore 2 Timothy (by the same author) “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”

Feed them his flesh and blood? If Christs body were in front of you right now you think he would want you to eat it? Catholics believe the little cookie they eat is literally the "body of Christ" after it is blessed and offered. Look it up.

A pillar holds something up. Aka the Bible (the written Word) which is said all around the verse you cherry-picked. Read above. (And below)

Quote:First Timothy 3:15 is the end of Paul’s description of proper conduct for church members, including leaders. He nowhere mentions a unique power of these leaders to make doctrinal or interpretive decisions. Nor does he declare members of the body incapable of making those interpretations themselves. In fact, in verse 14 Paul specifically says that his written words are what define proper conduct. This actually suggests the concept of sola scriptura; Paul is assigning authority to the written Word. He does not say, “The church will tell you what this letter means.”

How, then, should 1 Timothy 3:15 be interpreted? Judging by the context of 1 Timothy, as well as the rest of Scripture, certainly not that “the church” has an infallible grasp of truth. In this case, Paul seems to be saying that the ekklesia—the body of believers, “the church”—is the structure that holds up and holds forth the gospel to the world. For that reason, the conduct of the body and its selection of leaders are critically important. https://www.gotquestions.org/church-pill...truth.html

Quote:Or yeah, maybe it's the caricature you're painting.

No, I'm speaking on experience of having Catholics discuss these things at length. I've sat and heard these conversations since I was 10 years old and spoken to Catholics about these subjects myself many many times.

Just last week, my friend who went to a Catholic run boarding school was here talking about the stuff in this thread. He disagrees with a lot of my criticisms of these denominations. I asked him "While you were at that school did anyone tell you about salvation through Christ?" He sat for a minute and finally said "No I can't remember being told that once the whole time I was there." (WOW!)

A couple days later he was going on about how "odd" that is that nobody ever sat him down and told him how to accept Christ. This is one of the best Catholic schools of it's kind in Europe. His story is not unique.

My Grandfather refuses to accept Christ. Many Catholics who I've witnessed to haven't or never knew that accepting Christ was essential to be forgiven of your sins. Almost all of them think taking sacraments, being baptized as a baby, confessional, and following the Church's rules is the way to Heaven. It's not. This is wrong and against everything Christ taught.

(06-11-2019 05:31 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  If they have very few young people coming in (no new members), no ministry, if they just go to church on Sunday while praying to Mary or whatever and think that's enough they're wong. (The VAST majority of Catholics and Orthodox people I've spoken to to believe this.) Yes, I ask people this question.

Quote:Rather, you'd like to judge by the most lukewarm members. Where do you find Catholics and Orthodox like this? Is it the same place I found health-and-wealth-gospel protestants who think they're saved as long as they went up at an altar call once?

I've spoken to Catholics on these matters my entire life. I know what they believe because I've witnessed to many of them (in my family and on the street as a teenager) and hear the same arguments that are made here over and over. Notice how in this very thread from the first responses to the last "sola scriptura" has been attacked. When you corner people with Bible verses they revert to the "we're not Bible fanatics" or "The Bible isn't everything" position. This says a lot.

(06-11-2019 05:31 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  Hope to see you all around sometime in person. Any of you guys are very welcome in my home. I hope you guys don't take my strong objections as me hating you or your religion or something like that. I look at all people who believe in Salvation as a Brother in Christ. I will pray for your protection and blessings.

Quote:I do not understand how you can call us your brothers in Christ on one hand, then act as if we're non-bible-believing idolators on the other, PainPositive.

I should have said "Salvation through Jesus Christ". Just because they're sinning doesn't make them non-Christians. I'm not going to apologize for referencing the Bible. If people want to worship idols or commit any kinds of sin they can but don't get mad at me for simply pointing out what the Bible says about it.

EDIT: Responded to the eating flesh and blood part. (Yes, I know the response. "It's a symbol!".) Look up what the Church says about it. They have a special plate to catch the cookie in case it falls because it's literally the body of Christ to catholics and cannot touch the ground.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 02:46 PM by PainPositive.)
06-11-2019 02:37 PM
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Roosh Offline
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
Sound rebuttal of sola scriptura: http://catholicapologetics.info/apologet...m/sola.htm

Long but worth the read.

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06-11-2019 04:39 PM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
Wow, it's almost like each church has something the other is missing. Like they were two halfs of one whole. How to explain that?

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06-11-2019 04:44 PM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-09-2019 12:33 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  
(06-09-2019 08:23 AM)MusicForThePiano Wrote:  I have been confused on this for a long time. I've heard from many points of view, saved by works, saved by grace, saved by penance, saved by faith, some mutually exclusive, others not. I suppose you just have to choose one and stick with it to solidify your faith as a whole? This is probably my most painful struggle, more than any fleshly lure. Anyone here have any distinction to further Roosh's example? I was baptized as an infant, but many tell me I must do a second baptism in water now that I am an adult. This second baptism is essentially a religious act, but it is mentioned in the Bible as follows:

Leaving the larger debate aside, what denomination are you with that's saying this ?

Personally, I would attend your baptismal church mostly on grounds of familiarity.

If your birth church has lost its way, then really it's up to you if you want to get another baptism with your new group. I was baptised Catholic, converted to Lutheranism, went atheist, and then found some Baptists who reingnited my faith.

They were very insistent on an adult baptism with me, but I felt that doing it again was akin to double stamping a book out from the library. I eventually went back to Lutheranism for different reasons.

It sounds corny but follow your heart in this matter.

Thanks, your last bit there confirms some of my own sentiments.

I was baptized Roman Catholic from birth and raised in it, but went astray in mid-teens no thanks to the nihlistic culture and multi-kulti-agitprop from high school teacher peons. I've been a Christian in name and spirit for the past nine years though, albeit lukewarm and still struggling with the path for years. Tried several different churches, just could sniff out the lies and cuckoldry at each one. I know this E Jones guy is inspiring for Catholics, but it would take a lot for me to go back to that group. I've been disgusted with them for years. Even had a Catholic priest pray for "refugees" at one of my family members funerals a few years ago, almost walked up and KO'd the mofo. Catholicism really the mainstream type seems to be, at least from what I remember in the 90s, a pagan religion mixing themes of Jesus' sacrifice into it and tertiary references to God's lessons. Everything was about "church tradition" and not the Bible or becoming closer to Christ. Perhaps I am mistaken though, I wish I am.

The baptists ones I've talked to seemed ok, same with some JW's, although I don't subscribe to the extreme asceticism mentality as I once did. I feel like this journey really is getting closer to Christ and not some church, but it feels very difficult to do by yourself.
06-11-2019 05:55 PM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-11-2019 04:39 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Sound rebuttal of sola scriptura: http://catholicapologetics.info/apologet...m/sola.htm

Long but worth the read.

For a detailed look into the arguments in favor of sola scriptura, here are a few links.

http://www.the-highway.com/Sola_Scriptura_Godfrey.html

https://triablogue.blogspot.com/2004/04/...ura-1.html

https://triablogue.blogspot.com/2004/04/...ura-2.html

The doctrine of sola scriptura is often misrepresented and/or misunderstood by Catholics and Orthodox Christians. They seem to have the idea that Protestants recognize no value in church traditions - this is false. Or they claim Protestants think that every man is equally qualified to interpret Scripture and should do so based on nothing more than his own opinions, absent any instruction or fellowship with other believers - this is also false. Sola Scriptura is simply the idea that the Bible is the ultimate authority that Christians should look toward, and that all church teachings and traditions should be weighed against scripture to determine whether or not they are correct. It is the idea that the traditions of men, regardless of how longstanding or well-consecrated in the Church, must necessarily give way to the Word of God.

It is important to remember that Christ is not only our Lord, but our ultimate example for how to live a life that pleases God. With that in mind, an interesting quote from the first link above:

Quote:We should not be surprised that the Apostle Paul, the Old Testament, and the greatest teacher of the ancient church held to the sufficiency and perspicuity of Scripture. It is the position that Jesus took in one of the most important moments of his life. At the beginning of his public ministry, Jesus faced the focused temptation of the devil in the wilderness. He faced the temptation as the Son of God, but also as the second Adam and the true Israel. And how did He face that temptation? He did not appeal to the oral tradition of Israel; He did not appeal to the authority of the rabbis or Sanhedrin; He did not even appeal to His own divinity or the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Our Savior, in the face of temptation, turned again and again and again to the Scriptures. “It is written,” He said.

The Scriptures made Him wise; they equipped Him for every good work. They were clear, as He implied that even the evil one knew. When the devil quoted the Scripture, Jesus did not turn to some other authority. Rather Jesus said, “It is also written.”

When the evil one or his representatives misuse the Bible, or imply that it is unclear, Jesus teaches us that we must look more deeply into the written Word, not away from it.

See Matthew 4:1-11. Throughout his ministry Christ was constantly quoting the Old Testament and appealing to it as the ultimate authority. To make the matter even more clear, in what context was he usually quoting the scripture? To rebut the traditions of the Pharisees! Christ himself was literally applying the doctrine of sola scriptura in the exact same way that Protestants do - he was comparing the traditions of men against the Word of God, and in every case he confirmed that the Word of God took precedence.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” - Romans 8:18
06-11-2019 06:04 PM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-11-2019 04:39 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Sound rebuttal of sola scriptura: http://catholicapologetics.info/apologet...m/sola.htm

Long but worth the read.

This is a good example of a long long reading that plays hide-the-ball throughout. Let me show you a few places where the guy literally takes the last half of verses to make you think it means one thing (his opinion) where the previous sentence or verse says the opposite.

I answered this earlier in an above post.

Start with #3

Quote:3. The Bible Calls the church and not the Bible the "Pillar and Ground of the Truth."

[quote]Read completely out of context, the verse could be taken that way:

“If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth” (1 Timothy 3:15).

But, as with any Bible text, what something means out of context is irrelevant. Looking at the verse in light of its scriptural setting not only defeats this particular claim, it strongly contradicts other aspects of Catholicism.

First of all, it would be one thing to use 1 Timothy 3:15 to generically claim “the church” as a source of authority or truth on earth. Catholic apologists, however, frequently point to this passage and extract concepts such as an inerrant magisterium, an infallible Pope, and so forth. The scope of the verse in no way supports that kind of overreach. This is particularly true in light of what Paul and the rest of the New Testament says about the church and truth.

First Timothy 3:15 is the end of Paul’s description of proper conduct for church members, including leaders. He nowhere mentions a unique power of these leaders to make doctrinal or interpretive decisions. Nor does he declare members of the body incapable of making those interpretations themselves. In fact, in verse 14 Paul specifically says that his written words are what define proper conduct. This actually suggests the concept of sola scriptura; Paul is assigning authority to the written Word. He does not say, “The church will tell you what this letter means.”

At the start of the epistle, Paul explicitly tells Timothy to oppose those who teach unsound doctrine (1 Timothy 1:3–7, 18–19). He does not tell Timothy to oppose those who disagree with “the church” or with church leaders. This echoes other statements of Paul that indicate that the content of a belief is what matters, not the person who proclaims it (2 Corinthians 11:14; Galatians 1:6–8). Paul refers to those proclaiming the gospel as stewards of the truth, not the source of it (1 Corinthians 4:1; 9:17). Elsewhere, Paul explicitly says there is only one “true” foundation for our faith, which is Christ (1 Corinthians 3:11), so what he says in 1 Timothy 3:15 must be taken in that context.

It’s also short-sighted to use 1 Timothy 3:15 to support Catholicism, given the words that come directly before and after it. In 1 Timothy 3:1–13, Paul says that church leaders ought to be “the husband of one wife” and to have demonstrated control over their household and children. Yet Catholicism demands that priests be unmarried and celibate, a prohibition that Paul condemns a few verses later (1 Timothy 4:1–3). That’s hardly a ringing endorsement of Catholic doctrine.

How, then, should 1 Timothy 3:15 be interpreted? Judging by the context of 1 Timothy, as well as the rest of Scripture, certainly not that “the church” has an infallible grasp of truth. In this case, Paul seems to be saying that the ekklesia—the body of believers, “the church”—is the structure that holds up and holds forth the gospel to the world. For that reason, the conduct of the body and its selection of leaders are critically important.

When one verse that's taken out without reading the rest of the context it seems relevant. This is why we need to know the word back to front to be able to defend attacks on it like this one. This is just basic "contextual clues" we learned in school. Read more than one passage to get the whole scope of what the author is saying. Use cross-references. Compare the Bible with the Bible. If one verse sticks out among 5,10,20,30 verses as a seeming "contradiction" you may just need to go back and look up why it looks that way. Nine times out of ten you'll find the answer in context. Don't ignore 10 verses because one seems to say the opposite. (More on translations coming in another thread.)

When looking at the word "pillar" and "church" you find out something else.

Quote:This interpretation is strongly supported by Paul’s use of two Greek words, stulos and hedraioma, translated as “pillar” and “foundation.” Stulos means “pillar, column, prop, or support” and is found in the New Testament only here, in Revelation 3:12, and in Revelation 10:1. Hedraioma means “prop or support” and is found only in this verse. Both words come from Greek root words that imply something that stiffens, stabilizes, steadies, or holds. These are completely different words than what are used for other occurrences of “foundation” in English Bibles. For instance, Paul’s reference to Christ as our “foundation” in 1 Corinthians 3:11 uses the word themelios, which means “foundation of a building” or “initial and founding principles of an idea.”

The guy who writes this is totally dishonest here so he can make the church "infallible" (like God) which is what Catholics seek to do. They wish to raise the church up to the level of God. (Read about the infallibility of the Pope (a man) speaking from the throne.) Before you think I'm being too hard on him he knows the greek and broke down other greek words throughout his article. When he comes to this verse he carefully skips the greek words and their definitions.

Quote:Since a "ground" or foundation by its very nature is meant to be a permanent support, and since the above-mentioned passages do not allow fro the possibility of the church ever definitively teaching doctrinal or moral error, the only plausible conclusion is that Our Lord was very deliberate in establishing His church and that He was referring to its infallibility when He called it the "pillar and ground of the truth."

Wow. Reading this gives me goosebumps. If you think church doctrines are helpful, good, and bring you closer to God I get that and can support it to some extent but reading stuff like this makes you understand why the Catholic church is where it is today. They attack and misread the Bible at every turn. They want you to also lose faith in scripture and put the church above it. Finally we're getting to the root of the contention here. churches often attempt to attack or lesson the word of God, and make the church infallible. No man on this earth is infallible my friends.
Quote:Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 3:23

Again he does it here.

Quote:Before we can talk about the nature of Scripture as being theopneustos or "inspired" (literally, "God-breathed"), it is imperative that we identify with certainty those books we mean when we say "Scripture"; otherwise, the wrong writings may be labeled as "inspired." St. Paul’s words here obviously took on a new dimension when the New Testament was completed, as Christians eventually considered it, too, to be "Scripture." It can be argued, then, that the Biblical canon is also the issue here, as St. Paul – writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit – emphasizes the fact that all (and not just some) Scripture is inspired. The question that begs to be asked, however, is this: "How can we be sure we have all the correct writings?" obviously, we can only know the answer if we know what the canon of the Bible is. Such a question poses a problem for the Protestant, but not for the Catholic, as the latter has an infallible authority to answer it.

So the author now shows what he's really after. According to him, God failed in his promise to deliver the Word, and that it would be true, and that we could receive it. But good news for Catholics! (not orthodox) "but not for the Catholic, as the latter has an infallible authority to answer it." There you go. That says it all. You guys have the True Church (which one Catholic or Orthodox?) to tell you where the Word of God messed up.

Let me tell you this post gets more and more messed up as it goes on.
As the writer goes on his arguments get weaker and weaker until finally...

Quote:21. The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Had its Source in Luther’s Own Emotional Problems.

If anything at all can be said with certainty about Martin Luther, it is that he was deeply and chronically troubled by a combination of doubts and despair about his salvation and a sense of utter impotence in the face of temptation and sin.

Ah the ol' "Martin Luther was a homosexual who had mental problems". This is the reason the Bible must be lesser than the church and the church is indeed infallible.

Wait there is more! He ends like this.

Quote:The fullness of religious truth, unmixed with error, is found only in the Catholic church, the very church which Jesus Christ Himself established. According to the teaching of this church, founded by Christ, Sola Scriptura is a distorted, truncated view of Christian authority. Rather, the true rule of faith for the followers of Christ is this:

The immediate or direct rule of faith is the teaching of the church; the church in turn takes her teaching from Divine Revelation – both the written Word, called Sacred Scripture, and the oral or unwritten Word, known as "Tradition," which together form the remote or indirect rule of faith.


If it were the 12th century right now people with these beliefs like his would be burning me at the stake for saying these things to you. Remember according to him only Catholics are correct. Orthodox is out.

I can't read anymore of this guy.

Read 2 Timothy Chapter 3

EDIT: ^Above Hyperlink was wrong. Corrected.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 06:52 PM by PainPositive.)
06-11-2019 06:28 PM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
While this may still be biblical and not in the spirit (pun intended) of the thread, can we comment on the differences of praise music versus high church (aka, singing, organs, bells, and smells).

I started attending a church after I came back to the fold of Christ that was really into praise music with a little praise band at the front of the church. Initially, I enjoyed this style of music and it fed me spiritually. However, eventually it stopped and I found the singing really empty on any substance. Almost like Chinese food for the spirit.

Here's a good video that sums up what I am talking about:



And an article about that very same video:

https://www.christianpost.com/news/how-t...video.html

https://redeeminggod.com/how-to-write-a-...s-or-less/
Quote:I have complained about Christian music before, but one thing I have noticed in recent years is what this guy points out — Christian contemporary music all sounds so similar!

One little game my wife and I occasionally play in the car as we drive around is “Pick out the Christian Music Station.” We repeatedly hit the “seek” button on the radio in the car, and every time it lands on a station, we see which one of us can most quickly determine whether a station is “Christian” or “secular.” We can usually nail the “Christian” station within less than one second of music. It all has the same tempo, the same chords, the same rhythm, the same vocals, the same everything.

Whatever happened to creativity?!

Anyway, I am not trying to bash Christian music. It helps a lot of people prepare their hearts and minds for prayer and Bible Study. In some ways, Christian music is a form of prayer, I suppose. For me, however, I have been finding more truth, reality, and significance in secular music.

I absolutely need that high church experience (including communion) every Sunday to feel spiritually filled. It's an utter shame that so many Churches have gone this route. Praise music gets the job done, but it's like fast food and just doesn't satisfy over the long term.

Shalom Alechem!
06-11-2019 06:32 PM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-11-2019 06:32 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Initially, I enjoyed this style of music and it fed me spiritually. However, eventually it stopped and I found the singing really empty on any substance. Almost like Chinese food for the spirit.

The video you posted reminded me a little bit of this one:




Something I really like in my Church is that there are certain hymns for each day of the year based on what we're remembering that day. A lot of them are basically stories or doctrinal statements set to music.

(06-11-2019 06:32 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  I absolutely need that high church experience (including communion) every Sunday to feel spiritually filled. It's an utter shame that so many Churches have gone this route. Praise music gets the job done, but it's like fast food and just doesn't satisfy over the long term.

I'm with you. I'd love to attend matins and evensong at one of the old Anglican cathedrals. There's something about the grand architecture and traditional music that make me feel overwhelmed God's greatness.

I've tried singing my prayers at home but my singing voice is a disaster.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 07:08 PM by Emperor Constantine.)
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Post: #74
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-11-2019 06:32 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  While this may still be biblical and not in the spirit (pun intended) of the thread, can we comment on the differences of praise music versus high church (aka, singing, organs, bells, and smells).

I started attending a church after I came back to the fold of Christ that was really into praise music with a little praise band at the front of the church. Initially, I enjoyed this style of music and it fed me spiritually. However, eventually it stopped and I found the singing really empty on any substance. Almost like Chinese food for the spirit.

Here's a good video that sums up what I am talking about:



And an article about that very same video:

https://www.christianpost.com/news/how-t...video.html

https://redeeminggod.com/how-to-write-a-...s-or-less/
Quote:I have complained about Christian music before, but one thing I have noticed in recent years is what this guy points out — Christian contemporary music all sounds so similar!

One little game my wife and I occasionally play in the car as we drive around is “Pick out the Christian Music Station.” We repeatedly hit the “seek” button on the radio in the car, and every time it lands on a station, we see which one of us can most quickly determine whether a station is “Christian” or “secular.” We can usually nail the “Christian” station within less than one second of music. It all has the same tempo, the same chords, the same rhythm, the same vocals, the same everything.

Whatever happened to creativity?!

Anyway, I am not trying to bash Christian music. It helps a lot of people prepare their hearts and minds for prayer and Bible Study. In some ways, Christian music is a form of prayer, I suppose. For me, however, I have been finding more truth, reality, and significance in secular music.

I absolutely need that high church experience (including communion) every Sunday to feel spiritually filled. It's an utter shame that so many Churches have gone this route. Praise music gets the job done, but it's like fast food and just doesn't satisfy over the long term.

ha! That is too close to home right there.

Y'all need some bluegrass gospel. Some churches around here only play bluegrass gospel and sing hymns from a hymn book on sundays.





and before the Catholics freak out, don't worry, you get Polka Mass in the midwest





^ If this holds true to the Church picnics I've been to in Wisconsin after the service is done, the Polka Band moves into the beer tent in the parking lot and everyone proceeds to drink beer and dance while waiting for the Brats to get done. We only get fried chicken and sweet tea in the south.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 07:47 PM by Dr. Howard.)
06-11-2019 07:37 PM
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Nacho Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
As a former evangelical I used to cringe over how bad some of the worship music was. It's a good part in why I stop attending church. Either the holy spirit or my intuition kept saying that there is something very wrong and there is no way this is how the apostles worshipped. The gayness, the tackiness, the dude leading worship in cut off jeans...I just couldn't stomach it anymore.
06-11-2019 11:17 PM
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