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Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
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PainPositive Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
Guys, I woke up this morning looking for a new book of the Bible to read. I just finished reading "John" and am moving on to some of the instructional works of Paul. I'm starting with Galatians and it's super relevant to many of the topics we've been covering. I want to share some of it with you guys along with the footnotes my Bible includes.

For some context:

Quote:Occasion -
Paul had led the Galatians to Christ (3:1). They had made a good start in the Christian life (3:3) and were doing well spiritually (5:7). Later, some Jewish teachers (called Judaizers) taught the Galatians that to be saved one must not only believe in Christ, but must also obey the Mosaic Law, the sign of which is circumcision. In preaching this heresy, they also attacked Paul’s apostleship and gospel. Their false gospel had a detrimental effect on the Galatians: it was beginning to hinder their obedience to God (5:7), they were starting to observe some parts of the law (4:10), and they were considering a complete acceptance of the law (1:6; 4:9).

Quote:Purpose -
Paul seeks to expose the error of the Judaizers’ gospel and their impure motives (6:12, 13). His ultimate goal is to prevent the readers from embracing a false gospel and to encourage them to retain their spiritual freedom in Christ (5:1). The apostle does not want his dear converts to be tied up with all the now abolished rules and regulations of the Mosaic Law, which will lead them into legalism.

Quote:Theme -
The central feature of the letter is justification by God’s grace through faith. In chapters 1 and 2 Paul defends his gospel, arguing that it is the true message of salvation since he received it directly from Christ. Then in chapters 3 and 4 he defines exactly what his gospel is: man is justified (saved) not by keeping the law, but by God’s grace alone, that is, through his faith in Christ’s atoning death. Last, in chapters 5 and 6 the apostle briefly applies his gospel to various areas of daily living.

Nelson, Thomas. KJV Study Bible, eBook . Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.

Quote:1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

1:8. This verse shows that the message, not the messenger, is of utmost importance. The Galatian controversy is not over teachers or personalities, but over truth and error. Even a heavenly angel, if he preaches error, is to be accursed, that is, eternally condemned.

Nelson, Thomas. KJV Study Bible, eBook . Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.

Quote:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

1:11, 12. In verses 6–9 Paul implied that his gospel was the only true one; the message he preaches is the yardstick by which all others are to be measured. The reason for this is that his gospel is human neither in nature (not after man, v. 11) nor in origin (I neither received it of man, v. 12). The apostle’s gospel is genuine, because he received it directly from the risen Lord (was I taught it . . . by the revelation of Jesus Christ).

Nelson, Thomas. KJV Study Bible, eBook . Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.

Quote:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

2:4. Unawares brought in means “smuggled in.” These false brethren tried to get Titus circumcised (v. 3). These unbelievers came in privily (sneaked in) or infiltrated Christian churches. Their purpose was to spy out and carefully examine the believers’ liberty or freedom from the Mosaic Law. The ultimate aim of this spying was to bring the Christians into bondage by tying them up with all the rules and regulations of Judaism. 2:5. Paul refused to submit to the Judaizers’ demands of imposing the law on Christians. To have done so would have corrupted the pure truth of the gospel.

(This is a bit too long for this thread to go on but maybe I'll start a Bible study thread in the future.)

I haven't read Galatians in a long time. This morning I woke up thinking about the conversations we've had lately and said some morning prayers. One included asking God to point me in the right direction in the Bible. I had planned on starting Romans but just started reading this instead.

Ask God for answers and you'll get them. I'll be reading and talking more about Galatians in the future.
06-12-2019 02:57 AM
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Post: #77
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
Southern Baptist pastor is convinced that "gender equality" (i.e. feminism) is "Biblical" and soon expects female pastors within that church:

Quote:I believe what I teach about the equality of women with men is biblical. The Founders believe what I and others teach about the equality of women with men is borderline heresy.

So, with that said, the Founders men don’t think that the negative things they say about gifted Christian women like Beth Moore preaching, teaching, and giving spiritual encouragement to men and women is ‘bullying.’ They believe they are ‘correcting’ the serious error of a woman “imitating the authority of a man.”

I believe their aberrant patriarchal doctrine of male authority is a serious problem in the church of Jesus Christ.

And I’ll go one step further. I am going to make a prediction.
Within a decade or two, what I say the authoritative Scriptures teach about gender equality will be considered biblical, normal, and eternal by the majority of Southern Baptists, and what I heard today will have gone away, just as the former racism of Southern Baptists went away 100 years ago.

The Bible is clear to me on this issue of gender equality.

https://www.wadeburleson.org/2019/06/i-n...ot-to.html

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06-12-2019 03:25 PM
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Post: #78
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-12-2019 03:25 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Southern Baptist pastor is convinced that "gender equality" (i.e. feminism) is "Biblical" and soon expects female pastors within that church:

Quote:I believe what I teach about the equality of women with men is biblical. The Founders believe what I and others teach about the equality of women with men is borderline heresy.

So, with that said, the Founders men don’t think that the negative things they say about gifted Christian women like Beth Moore preaching, teaching, and giving spiritual encouragement to men and women is ‘bullying.’ They believe they are ‘correcting’ the serious error of a woman “imitating the authority of a man.”

I believe their aberrant patriarchal doctrine of male authority is a serious problem in the church of Jesus Christ.

And I’ll go one step further. I am going to make a prediction.
Within a decade or two, what I say the authoritative Scriptures teach about gender equality will be considered biblical, normal, and eternal by the majority of Southern Baptists, and what I heard today will have gone away, just as the former racism of Southern Baptists went away 100 years ago.

The Bible is clear to me on this issue of gender equality.

https://www.wadeburleson.org/2019/06/i-n...ot-to.html

The Southern Baptist Convention is ripe for another split. There are already so many ____ Baptist churches already that I think people will hardly notice. For example Temple Baptist with Charles Lawson is "King James Baptist" there is Fundamental, primitive, missionary and on and on. Even under the Southern Baptist convention each church is independent and so not bound by whatever weird policies they vote on. For churches to 'leave the convention' simply means that they hold back a portion of the church budget that they send to the national committee and continue with business as usual. Likewise, the Pastor in this article can put having female pastors to the vote of his congregation at any time and change their Church bylaws to do so. If they do it and the baptist convention cuts ties, they can just form the "beta baptist" convention with other cucked churches.

There has also been this uprising of people advocating for policies from the Globohomo playbook at convention meetings starting about 3 years ago. There is some Soros funded advocacy group that wants Gay acceptance and church staff, some other group alleging that everyone is a rapist. Combine that with this new 'gender equality' position it seems all to much like a Democratic playbook.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
06-12-2019 04:08 PM
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Post: #79
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-12-2019 03:25 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Southern Baptist pastor is convinced that "gender equality" (i.e. feminism) is "Biblical" and soon expects female pastors within that church:

Quote:I believe what I teach about the equality of women with men is biblical. The Founders believe what I and others teach about the equality of women with men is borderline heresy.

So, with that said, the Founders men don’t think that the negative things they say about gifted Christian women like Beth Moore preaching, teaching, and giving spiritual encouragement to men and women is ‘bullying.’ They believe they are ‘correcting’ the serious error of a woman “imitating the authority of a man.”

I believe their aberrant patriarchal doctrine of male authority is a serious problem in the church of Jesus Christ.

And I’ll go one step further. I am going to make a prediction.
Within a decade or two, what I say the authoritative Scriptures teach about gender equality will be considered biblical, normal, and eternal by the majority of Southern Baptists, and what I heard today will have gone away, just as the former racism of Southern Baptists went away 100 years ago.

The Bible is clear to me on this issue of gender equality.

https://www.wadeburleson.org/2019/06/i-n...ot-to.html

Well at least we can all agree on this point. Definitely not Biblical.

Quote:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Quote:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1 Corinthians 14:34 - 14:35

"Be quiet, Woman." Goes way back, it seems. Laugh
06-12-2019 06:24 PM
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scorpion Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-12-2019 03:25 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Southern Baptist pastor is convinced that "gender equality" (i.e. feminism) is "Biblical" and soon expects female pastors within that church:

When I read things like this it makes it very easy for me to see why Aurini likes to use Protestant as a slur... Laugh

In all seriousness though, this is undoubtedly the foremost weakness and most valid criticism of Protestant churches: because they have divorced themselves from the rigid traditions and hierarchy of the Catholic and Orthodox churches, they rely entirely on solid Biblical teaching to sustain their legitimacy. And to the extent that Protestant churches maintain a serious focus on Biblical doctrine, they invariably prosper. However, as soon as they begin ignoring the eternal truths of the Bible in favor of the temporal fancies of the world, the decline begins. This is one of the most stark examples possible: the Bible is crystal clear on the doctrine that women are not permitted to lead congregations or to hold any official leadership role over men. And yet this fool somehow attempts to justify the exact opposite as being a biblical teaching. It's literally right there in the plainest language possible! "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." (1 Tim. 2:12). This man's mind is warped and he is leading his flock astray. If only these Protestants would read their Bibles! The Word does not change, only the times change. If men were rooted in the Word instead of the world they would never fall prey to these transparently false teachings.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” - Romans 8:18
06-12-2019 06:57 PM
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PainPositive Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
This thread was made to see if church traditions are in accordance with the Bible not to argue Sola Scriptura. The Bible is the yardstick in this thread. We are weighing traditions against the Word not vice-versa. If you don't believe the Bible has higher authority than tradition I'd appreciate it if you made your own thread. Thanks.
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06-12-2019 09:43 PM
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Post: #82
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
Well no matter what, no woman preacher or woman head of the household is in line with the Bible. The lines are pretty clear about this. Someone should tell that Southern Baptist pastor to stop pandering to globohomo, don't need to present him with scriptures proving he is wrong, he already knows he is and is obviously just virtue sniveling to get more money for his church or its his way of selling out to the system. I would focus all of this on calling these people sellouts and traitors to ruffle some feathers, starting with religious leaders that people who don't know Jesus well are supposed to look to for guidance and support. Let the flocks know that treachery is the greatest sin next to blasphemy.
06-12-2019 10:11 PM
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Post: #83
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-12-2019 06:57 PM)scorpion Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 03:25 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Southern Baptist pastor is convinced that "gender equality" (i.e. feminism) is "Biblical" and soon expects female pastors within that church:

When I read things like this it makes it very easy for me to see why Aurini likes to use Protestant as a slur... Laugh

In all seriousness though, this is undoubtedly the foremost weakness and most valid criticism of Protestant churches: because they have divorced themselves from the rigid traditions and hierarchy of the Catholic and Orthodox churches, they rely entirely on solid Biblical teaching to sustain their legitimacy. And to the extent that Protestant churches maintain a serious focus on Biblical doctrine, they invariably prosper. However, as soon as they begin ignoring the eternal truths of the Bible in favor of the temporal fancies of the world, the decline begins. This is one of the most stark examples possible: the Bible is crystal clear on the doctrine that women are not permitted to lead congregations or to hold any official leadership role over men. And yet this fool somehow attempts to justify the exact opposite as being a biblical teaching. It's literally right there in the plainest language possible! "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." (1 Tim. 2:12). This man's mind is warped and he is leading his flock astray. If only these Protestants would read their Bibles! The Word does not change, only the times change. If men were rooted in the Word instead of the world they would never fall prey to these transparently false teachings.

and just in time for this topic.

Local police detective, who is also pastor of a very small church, gets fired from the police force for "anti LGBT" remarks during his sermons. The DA's office is now also going to review any cases he has ever worked on.

Quote:KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (WATE) - The Knox County District Attorney's Office says it is "reviewing all pending cases" involving a Knox County Sheriff's deputy who made anti-LGBT sermons "to scrutinize them for any potential bias."

An assistant district attorney has been assigned to receive complaints regarding closed cases, DA Charme Allen said in a statement late Wednesday night.

Knox County Sheriff Tom Spangler says a deputy who recently delivered a sermon calling for police officers and government to kill homosexuals is no longer on active duty.

It can all be read here https://www.wate.com/news/local-news/pas...2072160807

This is the offending church position from their website

Quote:We believe that sodomy (homosexuality) is a sin that is against nature. A person will only burn in their lust toward the same gender if they have been given over to a reprobate or rejected mind. God said homosexuality should be punished with the death penalty, as set forth in Leviticus 20:13. No homosexual will be allowed to attend or join All Scripture Baptist Church.

The pastor didn't cuck out and apologize, he said "I am not surprised" and preached another "anti LGBT" sermon, which you can watch for yourself here. He welcomes the persecution while elbow dropping cucked churches.





Where this is relevant though, is that the Southern Baptist Convention came out to condemn this preacher, as the church has the name Baptist in it, but they aren't even a member of the Southern Baptist Convention. They have no association with or authority over this church.

This also seems like a clear test of religious freedoms.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2019 07:45 AM by Dr. Howard.)
06-13-2019 07:15 AM
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Post: #84
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
The Pope Changes the "Lord's Prayer" based on?... His opinion. This is why sticking to the Bible is always better than listening to corruptible men in gold robes and fish hats.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/rea...side-down.

Quote:Right side up, we would say, “The Bible teaches that God does such and such. Therefore, we should seek to discover the wisdom and goodness of why he would act that way.” But standing on our heads, we would say, “We already know what is wise and good before the Bible tells us. So, if this text tells us God acts contrary to what we know, we will conclude that the text can’t mean that, or it’s mistaken.”

Daring progressive Christians say the text is mistaken; less daring progressives claim to hold fast to biblical authority while changing the meaning to fit their prior view of God. In either case, authority has shifted from heaven to earth.

Quote:The pope says, “A father doesn’t [lead his children into temptation]. A father helps you to get up immediately. It’s Satan who leads us into temptation. That’s his department.” This is upside down. God is a good father to his children. A perfect father. And since he is God, and not a mere human, his perfections should not be forced into the mold of our fallible views of what good fathers do. Having perfect wisdom, and knowing all things, our heavenly Father does things no human father should do.

Quote:For example, no human father should take the life of his child as a sacrifice for others. But that is what God did to his one and only divine Son who was perfectly pleasing to him.

Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. . . . Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him; he has put him to grief. (Isaiah 53:4, 10; see Acts 4:27–28)

No human father should take the life of his child to spare that very child a worse fate, namely, hell. But that is what God sometimes does.

That is why some of you have died. But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged. But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined [in this case with death] so that we may not be condemned along with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:30–32)

No human father should take the life of his child’s children to prove the faithfulness of his child, but that is what God did to Job’s children.

“A great wind came across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young people, and they are dead, and I alone have escaped to tell you.” Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped. And he said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.” In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong. (Job 1:19–22)

No human father should send a famine on his children’s land. And no human father should send one of his children into slavery to be the means of saving his brothers. But God did both of these.

When he summoned a famine on the land and broke all supply of bread, he had sent a man ahead of them, Joseph, who was sold as a slave. (Psalm 105:16–17)

As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today. (Genesis 50:20)

My point here is not whether God “leads us into temptation.” My point is: We should learn whether he does or not from Scripture, not from our prior notions of what good fathers do. Our notions are finite, and distorted by sin and culture. We must continually refine them by what the Bible teaches.

The Pope is... not Biblical.
06-14-2019 03:44 AM
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Post: #85
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
Interesting debate. I got introduced to Christianity by Catholics on YouTube, yet I became a Protestant by practicing reformed theology. With only a Bible and no church to go to it was the only way and that way was very fruitful. Guided by the Spirit I became a Baptist.

I'm also not interested in another 30 years forum war. I occasionally visit an amicable Evangelical parish ordained by a woman and while I reject woman ordination and wouldn't become a member there, I forgive them their sin and pray for a male pastor. It's for God to judge.

I also have no problem with what the Catholic Church in my country has turned into. The Church is infallible and its state is what it's supposed to be by definition. I'm just not going to join it, because I live by the principles of reformation.
06-14-2019 11:23 AM
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Post: #86
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
There is also "Prima-scriptura" (which I'm considering) but I don't know if that's a possible stance within the Orthodox Church.
06-14-2019 12:40 PM
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Post: #87
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
It is very straight forward; the Church wrote the bible so she interprets it. The one true church by definition cannot be anti-scripture, but of course, you have to learn about what the gospel is, who wrote it and to whom for what reason, and how to apply it. Which is why you need the Church, for the 1000th time. I repeat, Christianity is not islam --- a book didn't fall from heaven.

Get your passport ready!
06-14-2019 09:51 PM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
I hear you KT but you're wrong. The book did come from heaven and the Church doesn't have a monopoly on truth.

The church or the apostles didn't write the Bible as they said many many times in the Bible. The Holy Ghost wrote the Bible through them. It cannot be changed or altered, there will be consequences for changing the Word of God.

Also thank you for your answer in the other thread I'm going to speak with a priest when I return to Serbia. Thank you.

Edit: changed "Kid" to KT.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2019 02:34 AM by PainPositive.)
06-15-2019 02:33 AM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-15-2019 02:33 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  I hear you KT but you're wrong. The book did come from heaven and the Church doesn't have a monopoly on truth.

The church or the apostles didn't write the Bible as they said many many times in the Bible. The Holy Ghost wrote the Bible through them. It cannot be changed or altered, there will be consequences for changing the Word of God.

Also thank you for your answer in the other thread I'm going to speak with a priest when I return to Serbia. Thank you.

Edit: changed "Kid" to KT.

Do you know what you're saying, when you state, "The book came from heaven"? Especially when I gave the example (my reference) of the islamic idea that the words were written in arabic, immutable in heaven and then given to Mo"? Think about all of those ideas again.

I'm not sure that you've really thought about what you're truly saying when you write "The Holy Ghost wrote the Bible through them."

A proper question should be first, why am I so attached to this idea?

Even if the text were some literal script that fell from heaven, you'd STILL have to account for the multiple levels of interpretation that exist for a 21st century english speaker when the text was written in greek, what the culture was at the time, what the christian and jewish issues were at the time, what the idioms are and mean, what the churches were and they they received letters from Paul, etc.

Beyond that, you'd have to explain why some books are rejected, and some are considered reliable. Did the Holy Ghost inform you of why, for example, the protoevangelion of James isn't in the canon? Or thousands of others? You have to find out more and more about what you don't know, first.

Get your passport ready!
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2019 09:48 AM by Kid Twist.)
06-15-2019 09:48 AM
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Post: #90
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-14-2019 09:51 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  It is very straight forward; the Church wrote the bible so she interprets it. The one true church by definition cannot be anti-scripture

With respect, this is obviously nonsensical, because the church that assembled the Bible (under the guidance of the Holy Spirit) is not the same church you had in A.D. 1000, or A.D. 1500 or A.D. 2019. The church has changed over the years and so has the church's interpretation of the Bible. The Bible itself, however, has not changed. And this is why doctrine must be rooted in the scripture itself, rather than in the church. In this regard, it is clear that Protestants (at least Biblical Protestants) are actually much more closely aligned with the early church than are Catholics, since sola scriptura is essentially just the argument that after the church finalized the Biblical canon around A.D. 400 there was no longer any basis for the church itself to claim doctrinal authority. By that point everything had been assembled in the scripture, as per the will of God, in order to set down the Word of God for all generations to come. Any doctrinal deviation from the scripture after that point was, by definition, deviation from the teaching of the early church itself.

The fundamental error Catholics make in this argument is thinking that because the early church assembled the Bible that this somehow automatically endorses everything the Catholic church has done since then. But clearly this argument holds no water. It's like saying that you're automatically a great basketball player because your grandfather played in the NBA. The reality is that Protestants lay equal claim to the early church fathers and the councils who assembled the scripture. That is our church history too. And by putting our trust in the unchanging scripture rather than in the changing traditions of men, we believe we stay more true to the faith passed down by the early church, and thus are able to gain a more accurate understanding of Christ, by which our faith is strengthened.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” - Romans 8:18
06-15-2019 12:43 PM
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Post: #91
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-15-2019 12:43 PM)scorpion Wrote:  
(06-14-2019 09:51 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  It is very straight forward; the Church wrote the bible so she interprets it. The one true church by definition cannot be anti-scripture

With respect, this is obviously nonsensical, because the church that assembled the Bible (under the guidance of the Holy Spirit) is not the same church you had in A.D. 1000, or A.D. 1500 or A.D. 2019. The church has changed over the years and so has the church's interpretation of the Bible. The Bible itself, however, has not changed. And this is why doctrine must be rooted in the scripture itself, rather than in the church. In this regard, it is clear that Protestants (at least Biblical Protestants) are actually much more closely aligned with the early church than are Catholics, since sola scriptura is essentially just the argument that after the church finalized the Biblical canon around A.D. 400 there was no longer any basis for the church itself to claim doctrinal authority. By that point everything had been assembled in the scripture, as per the will of God, in order to set down the Word of God for all generations to come. Any doctrinal deviation from the scripture after that point was, by definition, deviation from the teaching of the early church itself.

The fundamental error Catholics make in this argument is thinking that because the early church assembled the Bible that this somehow automatically endorses everything the Catholic church has done since then. But clearly this argument holds no water. It's like saying that you're automatically a great basketball player because your grandfather played in the NBA. The reality is that Protestants lay equal claim to the early church fathers and the councils who assembled the scripture. That is our church history too. And by putting our trust in the unchanging scripture rather than in the changing traditions of men, we believe we stay more true to the faith passed down by the early church, and thus are able to gain a more accurate understanding of Christ, by which our faith is strengthened.

Unfortunately the burden of proof is on you. Catholicism has had some changes, but this is absolutely not true for Eastern Orthodoxy. We have remained unchanged for 2000 years. Our "interpretation" of the bible has remained consistent with what the apostles handed down.

As a former protestant, I find it amusing as well how protestants maintain all anyone needs to do is flip open the good book. Until the invention of the printing press, very few were walking around with the bible in their hand. It was a blessing at certain times that a whole congregation would have one bible in possession.

The church largely relied on oral and iconic lessons just as much as what was written. Sola scriptura is a fallacy and makes no logical sense. It's a house that's built on quick sand and invites chaos. The proof of that is pretty evident with the power struggles and thousand of church splits in the protestant world.
06-15-2019 03:18 PM
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Post: #92
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-15-2019 12:43 PM)scorpion Wrote:  And this is why doctrine must be rooted in the scripture itself, rather than in the church. In this regard, it is clear that Protestants (at least Biblical Protestants) are actually much more closely aligned with the early church than are Catholics, since sola scriptura is essentially just the argument that after the church finalized the Biblical canon around A.D. 400 there was no longer any basis for the church itself to claim doctrinal authority. By that point everything had been assembled in the scripture, as per the will of God, in order to set down the Word of God for all generations to come. Any doctrinal deviation from the scripture after that point was, by definition, deviation from the teaching of the early church itself.

This highlights an interesting difference between the various Christian religions:

- For Catholics, the authority is a combination of scripture, tradition and the Church. For Anglicans, it’s scripture, tradition, and reason; which amounts to basically the same thing.

- For Orthodox, the authority is the traditions handed down from the apostles, where scripture is obviously the most important bit since we’ve got it in writing. For the Catholics, the Church is an authority in and of itself whereas for Orthodox it’s the Church’s job to protect tradition.

- And for Protestants, the authority is technically scripture alone, although each denomination has it's own tradition of interpretation.

On a somewhat related note, the New Testament canon wasn’t finalized until at least the 7th century. Catholics like to say it was set by the third Council of Carthage in 397, but that was just a local council which didn't get semi-universal acceptance until the Council in Trullo ratified it in the 7th century. And even then, only those in communion with the Imperial Church were involved; so some of the Oriental and Assyrian Christian Churches still don’t have the same New Testament as Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestant Christians use.

And the Old Testament canon, of course, differs even more wildly than the New.
06-16-2019 12:27 PM
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Post: #93
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-06-2019 05:48 AM)Josue Wrote:  You let me intrigued with "female preachers", do they truly exist?, coming from a person that has been in churches all his life (my father is a deacon, I was an altar boy), I have never seen a single one, or perhaps you are talking about nuns?.

I visited a "Baptist" church in Australia once. Lo and behold the preacher was a female, with of course hair above the chin and one of them SJW scarves wrapped around her neck. Her husband sat in the first pew like a twat. She gave this vomit inducing sermon about immigration that sounded more like it belonged in a university classroom. I talked to her after about the different Bible versions. Showed her scripture from the real Bible about women and asked her how she rationalized her authority. She politely asked me to leave after only saying we have a "difference of opinions." Believe me, they do exist. She ain't the only one I've seen.

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(This post was last modified: 06-16-2019 01:13 PM by Spectrumwalker.)
06-16-2019 01:11 PM
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Post: #94
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-15-2019 12:43 PM)scorpion Wrote:  The church has changed over the years and so has the church's interpretation of the Bible. The Bible itself, however, has not changed. And this is why doctrine must be rooted in the scripture itself, rather than in the church.

Nacho has answered much of this, scorpion, but a few more questions may also elucidate just how unclear all of this "scripture is xyz, definitively" nonsense. Luther didn't like many parts of the Bible (James, for example). Jerome thought the rabbinical jews were the jews of the 2nd temple period, also incorrect stance. That's why he thought the masoretic text was legit, but it is heretical, in certain places, to delegitimize christianity. Were you aware of this? "Protestants" support these old testament revisions. I presume you know what the Septuagint text is (the only one used in the NT). Unwittingly, the protestants in this regard support heresy if they adhere to these changed texts (yes they are changed, and purposefully to be in fact anti-christian).

To be clear, you also provide another either/or which need not exist, and obviously neither Nacho nor I are defending the RC church; we are indifferent because we know that the RC-Protestant rumble is a parent daughter fight from after the original RC schism.

Doctrine does not need to be opposed as an either/or. It is the teaching (of the Apostles) handed down, which is supported by or harmonious with the scriptures. The true church does not teach anything that is not of the gospel. How could it? It wrote it. The Apostles and those with them were dying, so in order to preserve and verify, they wrote it down. So clearly, the "assembly" came before the "scriptures." It is not controversial, it is the teaching and is pure logic, indisputable even from a secular or academic point of view.

It seems to me that your fight or struggle is with the Franco Roman Catholic church. Which also didn't speak greek nor wrote the Bible. Of course, it has some things correct and some things incorrect, and some members that are holy, as I presume your tradition has as well. But that's not the topic what we're discussing.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2019 07:02 PM by Kid Twist.)
06-16-2019 06:58 PM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
In regards to both the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches, I take zero issue with most of the traditions and extra-Biblical teachings. In fact, I think many are quite practical and spiritually enriching. I only object to any traditions or church teachings that run counter to what is clearly written in scripture.

As for the opinions of Luther and others on what books should be included in the canon, they don't matter. Just as the authors of the individual books of scripture were inspired by the Holy Spirit, I believe the early church was guided by the Spirit in compiling what we now recognize as the Bible. Men may have argued back and forth and aired their individual preferences and prejudices, but God's providence was at work the entire time, and we ended up with the book God wanted us to end up with. I view this as a rather small miracle for the creator of the universe to accomplish.

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06-16-2019 08:33 PM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
I understand, but you are employing confirmation bias ("I'd like the bible to be what I say it is") instead of following the evidence. It's plain to see, I just had to point it out again. I can leave it at that.

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06-16-2019 10:13 PM
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Post: #97
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-16-2019 10:13 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  I understand, but you are employing confirmation bias ("I'd like the bible to be what I say it is") instead of following the evidence. It's plain to see, I just had to point it out again. I can leave it at that.

You know KT when I see your name posted to a thread it's usually safe for me to assume your comments will add nothing to the conversation.

I could say the exact some "confirmation bias" about what you choose to believe.

If I said "You need funny looking dudes in long black or (gold) robes, fish hats, and gold old-lady jewelry, who worship idols, stare at their belly button while murmuring the same repetitive man-made prayers hundreds of times like a buddhist, and changing the words in the HOLY BIBLE on a whim based on a convoluted opinion he pulled out of a hole in the ground." (The pope recently did exactly this.) you'd probably get nothing out of that either, correct?

The problem with statements like the one above, even if you believe with all your little heart that they're true, doesn't mean anything to people who believe the opposite.

The more I read writings from your camp the more I realize they are the most confused people of all the denominations. They believe everything based on two or three verses in the Bible and literally keep telling people that the Bible is just a book and all other sorts of nonsense that their priests don't even believe or tell people. If you ask 10 of them a question you often get ten different answers. 99/1000 of them can't the seven sacraments off hand and that's supposedly the "way to heaven." but mentioning that isn't going to convince anyone of anything.

Of all the people in this thread who have posted you seem to know the least about your religion and why you believe what you believe. I can at least read and get something out from Aurini (who can't get through a sentence without insulting another christian) but with your posts read like a 14-year-old atheist kid on Reddit. Witcoff, EC, Roosh, and others can at least take a stab at these difficult questions, are able to make a point without insulting, and often give me a lot to read and think about.

Please man, take this as a little bit of constructive criticism because your comments just make me want to show you how silly you are in your arguments. I was going to take some quotes from you saying nonsense and then being proven wrong right after but I don't wanna be too critical or be accused of "attacking".

Lastly, read the title of this thread. "Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?" In this thread the Bible is the measuring stick. If you need a priest to tell you what the Bible says go ahead, I won't stop you. But coming to a Bible-believing thread to spout your nonsense opinions is like me walking into a Orthodox church and reading Bible verses about worshiping idols and arguing with the congregation. It convinces nobody and is called "trolling" to anyone who is not an autistic person.

Please give it a rest and find a thread that doesn't have "Bible" in it. This should be basic thinking but I had to explain it to you. Ease up on the Bible/ protestant hating stuff. It doesn't do anyone any good.

Please take my criticism as "tough love" and not anger or hatred. I think you're probably a decent dude.

Go in peace and Godspeed.

With Love,
PP
06-17-2019 09:53 AM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
Catholics, help me rectify this line of thinking:

Internet Catholics on twitter - Catholicism is the only way to salvation, all other denominations are going to hell

Also Internet Catholics on twitter - The new pope, and Vatican 2 are illegitimate, I am not going to follow their rules.

So, when protestants say that in the 1500's they are all doomed to hell, but when Catholics do the same and all but officially schism today into "Trad" and "Modern" they are doing something else? I don't understand it?

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
06-20-2019 09:55 AM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-20-2019 09:55 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  Internet Catholics on twitter

These are larpers, not real Christians. Their goal is demeaning Christians.
(This post was last modified: 06-20-2019 11:28 AM by wwtl.)
06-20-2019 11:27 AM
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-17-2019 09:53 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  
(06-16-2019 10:13 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  I understand, but you are employing confirmation bias ("I'd like the bible to be what I say it is") instead of following the evidence. It's plain to see, I just had to point it out again. I can leave it at that.

Of all the people in this thread who have posted you seem to know the least about your religion and why you believe what you believe.

With Love,
PP

You forgot about my references to the evidence. I'm concerned you really haven't read anything I've written because I have many (long) posts about history and the bible that someone who criticizes as you do above suggests you clearly haven't read any of them. I think the most clear support of this is that you just gave a one sentence put down, which pretty much means nothing in light of a quick post search with probably 50+ posts on the topic at hand, many extensive, having to do with language, history, compilation, translation, etc.

I do not want to be a stumbling block for your truth seeking, but I fear that you've already decided to take a one dimensional (protestant) approach, which you've stated publicly as pretty much "Bible only."

Having said that, I'll stay out of threads directly involving you, sure. But I can't guarantee that I'll not post coincidentally.
06-20-2019 09:09 PM
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