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Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
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Kid Twist Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-20-2019 09:55 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  Catholics, help me rectify this line of thinking:

Internet Catholics on twitter - Catholicism is the only way to salvation, all other denominations are going to hell

Also Internet Catholics on twitter - The new pope, and Vatican 2 are illegitimate, I am not going to follow their rules.

So, when protestants say that in the 1500's they are all doomed to hell, but when Catholics do the same and all but officially schism today into "Trad" and "Modern" they are doing something else? I don't understand it?

They can't, as you already know. If you are from a tradition that has said what it says about the pope in Vatican I, among other things, and aren't honest enough to speak openly about how problematic it is regardless of your sticking with it, you are pretty much part of the problem. Thing is, most don't even know the history. At all. Political movements commonly share this feature.

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06-20-2019 09:12 PM
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Emperor Constantine Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-20-2019 09:55 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  Catholics, help me rectify this line of thinking:

Internet Catholics on twitter - Catholicism is the only way to salvation, all other denominations are going to hell

Also Internet Catholics on twitter - The new pope, and Vatican 2 are illegitimate, I am not going to follow their rules.

So, when protestants say that in the 1500's they are all doomed to hell, but when Catholics do the same and all but officially schism today into "Trad" and "Modern" they are doing something else? I don't understand it?

They are merely in the throes of mental gymnastics necessary to reconcile their belief in old-school Catholicism with the existence of new-school Catholicism.

Since they don't like what the current Pope teaches, they naturally assume he's not the real Pope. And so they profess their undying loyalty to a God-protected chair that is currently vacant because God apparently failed to protect it from the commies/modernists/freemasons/liturgical revisionists.

John Pontrello wrote an excellent satire on the subject here: https://www.thesedevacantistdelusion.com/the-toaster#!
06-20-2019 10:14 PM
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Nacho Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
Some of them have the same mentality as Protestants. I've heard many Orthodox say that Protestantism and Catholicism are the flip side of the same coin.
06-21-2019 12:19 AM
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Kid Twist Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(06-21-2019 12:19 AM)Nacho Wrote:  Some of them have the same mentality as Protestants. I've heard many Orthodox say that Protestantism and Catholicism are the flip side of the same coin.

The mentality would be that they are juridical in their thinking, of course that is inherited from the mother to the daughter, in this case.

The modern west is patricidal. Originally, protestants fulfilled a similar type in that they were rebellious children that hated their parent (for some good reasons, obviously).

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06-21-2019 05:13 PM
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Maailma Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
How do you guys reconcile all the pagan influences in Catholicism and Orthodoxy with the Bible?

I mean the Roman Catholic Church was essentially formed in the 4th century by Emperor Constantine. The Romans merged the pagan practices and the Roman church into a "universal" or "general" church, called the Roman Catholic Church. The word catholic means "universal" or "general".

Could this be why Catholics and Orthodox consider tradition to be on par with the Bible?

Quote:Deuteronomy 18:9
When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations.

Leviticus 26:1
You shall not make idols for yourselves or erect an image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land to bow down to it, for I am the Lord your God. You shall keep my Sabbaths and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

Jeremiah 10:1
Hear the word that the Lord speaks to you, O house of Israel. Thus says the Lord: “Learn not the way of the nations, nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens because the nations are dismayed at them, for the customs of the peoples are vanity.

And the popes pagan symbolism freaks me out as well. What are your thoughts on this?

[Image: 8ew8.jpg]

I am genuinely curious as I am a new disciple of Christ. I'm investigating most of the denominations to see which one would fit me best.
07-08-2019 03:07 PM
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MusicForThePiano
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Post: #106
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(07-08-2019 03:07 PM)Maailma Wrote:  How do you guys reconcile all the pagan influences in Catholicism and Orthodoxy with the Bible
I mean the Roman Catholic Church was essentially formed in the 4th century by Emperor Constantine. The Romans merged the pagan practices and the Roman church into a "universal" or "general" church, called the Roman Catholic Church. The word catholic means "universal" or "general".

This is so far away from being how it happened. Christianity taught the same stuff and did the same stuff before and after Constantine, and this is easily verifiable. You’ve got to read some Church history from a credible source. I mean anyone – Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, or even non-Christian. Here’s some solid options:
The Ecclesial History by Eusebius
The First Seven Ecumencial Councils: Their History and Theology by Fr. Leo Donald Davis
The Oxford History of Christianity

(07-08-2019 03:07 PM)Maailma Wrote:  Could this be why Catholics and Orthodox consider tradition to be on par with the Bible?
Orthodox Christians consider the source of authority to be divine revalation, as handed down to us from the apostles. The Bible is a part of this tradition, not separate from it.
Catholics, however, see tradition as a separate authority in the manner you mention.

(07-08-2019 03:07 PM)Maailma Wrote:  Leviticus 26:1
You shall not make idols for yourselves or erect an image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land to bow down to it, for I am the Lord your God. You shall keep my Sabbaths and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

This passage means not to worship false gods, or statues of false Gods. It doesn’t mean that pictures or carvings are bad. Iconography has always been part of Christianity, just as it had been part of Judaism. There was no controversy over this until the Muslims took over large portions of the Byzantine Empire, spreading their new religious ideology.

On the Divine Images by St. John of Damascus in the eight century helps clear up some misconceptions held by the Christians who had been swayed by Islamist iconoclasm.

(07-08-2019 03:07 PM)Maailma Wrote:  And the popes pagan symbolism freaks me out as well. What are your thoughts on this?

The supposed connections between Catholicism and paganism in the above meme are ludicrous. “Look, Mary is holding baby Jesus in this picture, and here’s a pagan statue where a mom holds a baby! Catholicism is stealing the concept of motherhood from paganism!” or “Look, the Eucharist is a circle shape and the pagans also drew circles!” or “I could kinda sorta fit a pentagram inside the rosary so clearly that’s pagan too!”

Christianity did steal some things from the pagans: the date of Christmas, Easter eggs, etc. We’re the winning team, and we get to take what we want from the losing team. But this is a far cry from being some sort of religious merger.

The rabid anti-Catholics have a problem with ritual of any kind, probably because they’ve never read actually read Leviticus. They’ll make some sort of connection, like “Catholics used to use incense, and pagans also used to use incense, so Catholicism is paganism.” While ignoring the fact that the Jews and the Christians always used it.

There are bits and pieces of truth and beauty scattered across the various false religions, and occasionally they have something in common with Christianity. This is nothing to freak out about.

(07-08-2019 03:07 PM)Maailma Wrote:  I am genuinely curious as I am a new disciple of Christ. I'm investigating most of the denominations to see which one would fit me best.

C.S. Lewis had a rule: for ever new Christian book he read, he’d read one old Christian book. If you start reading the works of the ancient Christians, starting with the apostolic fathers (those who were taught by the 12 apostles), and working your way through the history of the Church, you’ll be able to see right through the arguments of the anti-Catholics who pretend there was some huge change in doctrine during Constantine’s reign, or right after the death of the last of possible, or whenever the most recent Chick tract claims that true Christianity got replaced by the Papal “Whore of Babylon” or some such nonsense.

Best of luck, and I will pray for you! You’re at the start of a pretty wild adventure.
07-08-2019 04:52 PM
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Post: #107
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(07-08-2019 04:52 PM)Emperor Constantine Wrote:  This is so far away from being how it happened. Christianity taught the same stuff and did the same stuff before and after Constantine, and this is easily verifiable. You’ve got to read some Church history from a credible source. I mean anyone – Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, or even non-Christian. Here’s some solid options:
The Ecclesial History by Eusebius
The First Seven Ecumencial Councils: Their History and Theology by Fr. Leo Donald Davis
The Oxford History of Christianity

Thanks I'll check them out. Although if the "credible" sources are just hardcore catholics then I am skeptical of their credibility. For example Eusebius was the counselor to Emperor Constantine and Leo Donald Davis was a jesuit priest. Jesuits were kicked out of almost as many countries as the jews, even Catholic countries.

What about the pagan title of the pope, "Pontifex Maximus"? This was the title given to the Roman Emperor as head of the pagan priesthood. The pope is also referred to as "Vicar of Christ", which is what Emperor Constantine called himself. Vicar means substitute, isn't it a bit blasphemous to call yourself the substitute of Christ? Also there were no popes before Constantine, the church leaders back then were simply called bishops, from what I have read.

(07-08-2019 04:52 PM)Emperor Constantine Wrote:  Orthodox Christians consider the source of authority to be divine revalation, as handed down to us from the apostles. The Bible is a part of this tradition, not separate from it.
Catholics, however, see tradition as a separate authority in the manner you mention.

What other divine revalation was handed down by the apostles besides the Bible, according to Orthodox teachings?

(07-08-2019 04:52 PM)Emperor Constantine Wrote:  
Quote:Leviticus 26:1
You shall not make idols for yourselves or erect an image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land to bow down to it, for I am the Lord your God. You shall keep my Sabbaths and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

This passage means not to worship false gods, or statues of false Gods. It doesn’t mean that pictures or carvings are bad. Iconography has always been part of Christianity, just as it had been part of Judaism. There was no controversy over this until the Muslims took over large portions of the Byzantine Empire, spreading their new religious ideology.

Yeah but some would argue that Roman Catholics worship Mary, they call her the "Queen of Heaven" which is also a title attributed to pagan gods like Juno and Hera. Orthodox seem to also worship some saints, although from what I have read they banned statues of them and instead worship pictures. Should we really worship anything or anyone except Jesus the Christ AKA God?

(07-08-2019 04:52 PM)Emperor Constantine Wrote:  The supposed connections between Catholicism and paganism in the above meme are ludicrous. “Look, Mary is holding baby Jesus in this picture, and here’s a pagan statue where a mom holds a baby! Catholicism is stealing the concept of motherhood from paganism!” or “Look, the Eucharist is a circle shape and the pagans also drew circles!” or “I could kinda sorta fit a pentagram inside the rosary so clearly that’s pagan too!”

There are too many Egyptian, Babylonian and other pagan symbols for it to be mere coincidence, in my honest opinion. Orthodox churches seem to have less of them, although the Patriarchs sometimes do carry a staff resembling a Caduceus, the staff of Hermes Trismegistus. It's a staff with two snakes and a cross in the middle, which from what I have read symbolizes the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Quote:Matthew 7:13-14
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2019 01:52 AM by Maailma.)
07-09-2019 01:51 AM
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MusicForThePiano Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
I feel as if there is no worldly religion, organized or unorganized that will fit the perfect model of walking the path of salvation with no hiccups. I don't know, perhaps its my own disillusionment and suffering that brings me to this conclusion. I have not found any group to not be without one element of poz, and any element of poz is anti-Christ in nature, meaning its anti-God and anti-life and anti-order at its core.

I have yet to look into Orthodoxy, but as far as I know it is the only organized religion to never betray its constituency.
07-09-2019 05:26 AM
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Maailma Offline
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Post: #109
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(07-09-2019 05:26 AM)MusicForThePiano Wrote:  I feel as if there is no worldly religion, organized or unorganized that will fit the perfect model of walking the path of salvation with no hiccups. I don't know, perhaps its my own disillusionment and suffering that brings me to this conclusion. I have not found any group to not be without one element of poz, and any element of poz is anti-Christ in nature, meaning its anti-God and anti-life and anti-order at its core.

I have yet to look into Orthodoxy, but as far as I know it is the only organized religion to never betray its constituency.

In my opinion every earthly Church is a corpse (corpus), a legal fiction that is animated or brought to life by its members and supporters. But as such it is imperfect and can be infiltrated and subverted by satan.

This has happened, seemingly to most of them, to one degree or another. Therefore the real Church is always within. You can know God's Truth by reading the Bible, asking Jesus for help and seeking the answers.

Quote:Matthew 7:7
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

That said, if a earthly Church helps you to get closer or stay closer to God, then that's a good thing. However if the pope says every religion believes in the same god and we should unify the Catholic Church, Islam and all other faiths into a one world religion ... then it's probably time to get out.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2019 11:17 AM by Maailma.)
07-09-2019 11:10 AM
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Post: #110
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(07-09-2019 01:51 AM)Maailma Wrote:  Thanks I'll check them out. Although if the "credible" sources are just hardcore catholics then I am skeptical of their credibility. For example Eusebius was the counselor to Emperor Constantine and Leo Donald Davis was a jesuit priest. Jesuits were kicked out of almost as many countries as the jews, even Catholic countries.

Constantine did basically two things for the Church:
1. He legalized Christianity, ending the persecution.
2. A heresy called Arianism a was tearing the empire apart, and so Constantine asked all the bishops of the empire to come to Nicaea and debate it out. Arianism taught that Christ was created by God, rather than actually being an eternal part of the Holy Trinity. This error, in effect, made the Church subject to the state since the scripture says the government's authority comes from God, while the Church's authority merely comes from Christ. The bishops at Nicaea condemned Arianism, and Constantine exiled the Arian leaders.

Constantine didn't establish Roman Catholicism. Instead of telling everyone to listen to the Pope about Arianism, Constantine asked all the bishops in the empire to hash it out. It's also worth noting that Constantine, as with many of the emperors, seemed to like Arianism (given what it would do for him), but he accepted the Church's decision anyway. The popes did not govern the Church after Constantine's reign. They did try to, many times, but all the other churches just kinda ignored it until the Roman Church split from the rest of the Churches in the 11th century.

The Christian Churches called themselves catholic both before and after Constantine, and it had nothing to do with Roman Catholicism. The word catholic comes from the Greek words meaning "according to the whole" and it signified that each local church is whole, or complete. It wasn't a reference to a universal Roman church under the Pope's authority.

Eusebius was not a Roman Catholic, and you won't find him defending Roman Catholicism's departures from Christianity (papal infallibility, the immaculate conception, indulgences, etc. - most of these departures didn't even exist yet). He wrote the first comprehensive history of pre-Nicene Christianity, and Christian historians all rely on him. Without using Eusebius, you'll have to look to a huge variety of other sources who reported bits and pieces of Church history, much of which has not been translated into English. Now, the Christianity to which Eusebius subscribed had more in common with Roman Cathlicism more than with the anti-Catholic Jack Chick religion, but you could say the same thing about Christ, the Apostle Paul, St. Augustine, Martin Luther, and every other Christian who lived before the 20th century.

Fr. Leo Donald Davis is a jesuit, but he is also a good historian, and I'm not sure of another book that demonstrates the conciliar model of Church government better than Fr. Leo's, despite his hope that it would do the opposite. But any scholarly work about Church history will do.

(07-09-2019 01:51 AM)Maailma Wrote:  What about the pagan title of the pope, "Pontifex Maximus"? This was the title given to the Roman Emperor as head of the pagan priesthood. The pope is also referred to as "Vicar of Christ", which is what Emperor Constantine called himself. Vicar means substitute, isn't it a bit blasphemous to call yourself the substitute of Christ? Also there were no popes before Constantine, the church leaders back then were simply called bishops, from what I have read.

I'm not sure when the Bishops of Rome were first referred to as "Pope" but the title has the same root as the English word "papa" and meant the same thing. It was a common nickname for clergy early on, not just the Roman Bishop.

The Roman Popes kept trying to take over the Church, despite the conciliar model of Church government demonstrated in Acts 15 or at the Council of Nicaea. In the 11th century they split away from the Orthodox Church over this and a few other issues. I grew up Roman Catholic and left it for greener pastures: I'd be the last guy to defend the papal titles. But they're not an attempt at paganism. They're just the pope trying to notify everyone how important he thinks he is.

(07-09-2019 01:51 AM)Maailma Wrote:  What other divine revalation was handed down by the apostles besides the Bible, according to Orthodox teachings?

The most obvious example would be the Holy Trinity, an idea never explained in scripture but crucial to Orthodox Christian theology.

(07-09-2019 01:51 AM)Maailma Wrote:  Yeah but some would argue that Roman Catholics worship Mary, they call her the "Queen of Heaven" which is also a title attributed to pagan gods like Juno and Hera. Orthodox seem to also worship some saints, although from what I have read they banned statues of them and instead worship pictures. Should we really worship anything or anyone except Jesus the Christ AKA God?

No, in accordance with the teachings of Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Protestantism, and probably any other type of Christianity, we should never worship anyone but God. Given how easy it is to google these things now, anyone who tells you that Catholicism or Orthodoxy teach that people should worship anyone other than God is willfully ignorant of the teachings of either church.

The anti-Catholics can claim we do, just as I can claim that they worship the image of their pastors on the projector screen of their megachurches. But that doesn't make it true.

I must repeat my plea for you to remember to learn from ancient sources as well as modern - the scriptures, the apostolic fathers, Chrysostom, Augustine, and on down the line - seeing the remarkable consistency of Christian teaching through the centuries is the antidote to the sources you're currently learning from. Even Luther and Calvin will help you see the through the rabidly anti-Catholic Jack Chick types.

These people are wolves in sheeps clothing, and by spreading deliberate lies about Catholicism, its origins, and its history, they have taken the side of the father of lies instead of Lord of Truth.

Quote:Matthew 7:13-14
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

On this, we are in full agreement. God bless you, Maailma! I do not wish to come across as angry towards you; my anger is towards those who are lying to you and the serpent they serve.
07-09-2019 07:30 PM
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Spectrumwalker Offline
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RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Seeing this scripture get mentioned makes me face palm myself, it's one of those things I myself didn't think about when I went down the rabbit hole and once upon a time was hoodwinked into believing on hocus pocus pagan bs from the fraudulent anglican church. Let's see here. Currently there's an estimated...

1.2 billion Catholics.
260 million "Orthodox" Christians give or take.
800 million Protestants (half Catholics)approximately.

All of whom believe in some sort of works based salvation like Islam. Considering all those denominations of past and future generations....hot damn those are some pretty wide gates there. Something ain't right. Confused

How many people believe the Gospel and are genuinely saved. Only God knows, but it definitely ain't those numbers.


"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".

John 6:40/ the will of the father.
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Dreams are like horses; they run wild on the earth. Catch one and ride it. Throw a leg over and ride it for all its worth.
Psalm 25:7
https://youtu.be/vHVoMCH10Wk
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2019 09:01 PM by Spectrumwalker.)
07-09-2019 08:21 PM
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Maailma Offline
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Post: #112
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(07-09-2019 07:30 PM)Emperor Constantine Wrote:  The Christian Churches called themselves catholic both before and after Constantine, and it had nothing to do with Roman Catholicism. The word catholic comes from the Greek words meaning "according to the whole" and it signified that each local church is whole, or complete. It wasn't a reference to a universal Roman church under the Pope's authority.

Ok that actually checks out, the Greek translation I mean.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_(term)

(07-09-2019 07:30 PM)Emperor Constantine Wrote:  Eusebius was not a Roman Catholic, and you won't find him defending Roman Catholicism's departures from Christianity (papal infallibility, the immaculate conception, indulgences, etc. - most of these departures didn't even exist yet). He wrote the first comprehensive history of pre-Nicene Christianity, and Christian historians all rely on him. Without using Eusebius, you'll have to look to a huge variety of other sources who reported bits and pieces of Church history, much of which has not been translated into English. Now, the Christianity to which Eusebius subscribed had more in common with Roman Cathlicism more than with the anti-Catholic Jack Chick religion, but you could say the same thing about Christ, the Apostle Paul, St. Augustine, Martin Luther, and every other Christian who lived before the 20th century.

Fair enough, maybe he is worth a read.

(07-09-2019 07:30 PM)Emperor Constantine Wrote:  Fr. Leo Donald Davis is a jesuit, but he is also a good historian, and I'm not sure of another book that demonstrates the conciliar model of Church government better than Fr. Leo's, despite his hope that it would do the opposite. But any scholarly work about Church history will do.

Yeah I am still very skeptical of jesuits, so I would have to look at some other sources.

(07-09-2019 07:30 PM)Emperor Constantine Wrote:  I'm not sure when the Bishops of Rome were first referred to as "Pope" but the title has the same root as the English word "papa" and meant the same thing. It was a common nickname for clergy early on, not just the Roman Bishop.

You still didn't answer me about "Pontifex Maximus", this is undeniably of pagan origin.

Quote:The Pontifex Maximus (Latin, "greatest priest"[1][2][3]) was the chief high priest of the College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) in ancient Rome. This was the most important position in the ancient Roman religion, open only to patricians until 254 BC, when a plebeian first occupied this post.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontifex_maximus

The College of Pontiffs (Latin: Collegium Pontificum; see collegium) was a body of the ancient Roman state whose members were the highest-ranking priests of the state religion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_of_Pontiffs

Rather strange that it is still being used in the Roman Catholic Church, since the Roman Empire is long gone ... or is it? Some people argue that the Roman Empire never died and lives on through secret (satanic) societies.

Also you have yet to explain the other pagan symbology in Catholic Churches and of the pope. Was it always present, since before 313 AD when Constantine signed the Edict of Milan to stop Christian persecution? Somehow I find that hard to believe.

(07-09-2019 07:30 PM)Emperor Constantine Wrote:  No, in accordance with the teachings of Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Protestantism, and probably any other type of Christianity, we should never worship anyone but God. Given how easy it is to google these things now, anyone who tells you that Catholicism or Orthodoxy teach that people should worship anyone other than God is willfully ignorant of the teachings of either church.

The anti-Catholics can claim we do, just as I can claim that they worship the image of their pastors on the projector screen of their megachurches. But that doesn't make it true.

Fair enough but at best it seems a bit unnecessary to ask favors from the saints since we are supposed to have a direct relationship with Jesus/God. But I suppose it isn't blasphemy.

(07-09-2019 07:30 PM)Emperor Constantine Wrote:  On this, we are in full agreement. God bless you, Maailma! I do not wish to come across as angry towards you; my anger is towards those who are lying to you and the serpent they serve.

No problem, your majesty (jk).
07-10-2019 02:29 AM
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Post: #113
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(07-10-2019 02:29 AM)Maailma Wrote:  You still didn't answer me about "Pontifex Maximus", this is undeniably of pagan origin.

It means "greatest priest," and I suspect the Bishops of Rome grabbed this title out of pride, since it's basically how they saw themselves. But they weren't merging Christianity with Paganism, any more than when we stole the Julian Calendar from the pagans.

(07-10-2019 02:29 AM)Maailma Wrote:  Also you have yet to explain the other pagan symbology in Catholic Churches and of the pope. Was it always present, since before 313 AD when Constantine signed the Edict of Milan to stop Christian persecution? Somehow I find that hard to believe.

I don't see the pagan symbolism you're seeing, for the most part. From the image you posted above, the crosses, the pictures of Jesus and Mary, and the Lord's Supper were all in use since before the Edict of Milan. Although I'd consider these Christian symbolism rather than pagan. The monstrances and rosaries didn't come much until later; the star of David comes from the Jews, not the pagans; and I've never actually seen the illuminati eye on anything except the dollar bill. I'm not sure about the pointy hats, Roman Catholic bishops wear them but I'm not sure what their actual origins are or why.

I'd like to throw it out there that I don't think you should become Roman Catholic; but there's no need to mistake them for something they're not.
07-10-2019 09:29 AM
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Post: #114
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
(07-10-2019 09:29 AM)Emperor Constantine Wrote:  It means "greatest priest," and I suspect the Bishops of Rome grabbed this title out of pride, since it's basically how they saw themselves. But they weren't merging Christianity with Paganism, any more than when we stole the Julian Calendar from the pagans.

Actually it seems like they might have been. I asked God to show me the truth about Catholicism and that is what lead me to discover a lot of what I posted previously. Much of it I stumbled upon by chance.

Yesterday again by chance I came across this documentary by the History Channel called "The Deception of Constantine" while browsing 4chan. If I wasn't there at that exact time I might have missed it because often I just scroll through the main page of /pol/ once or twice for news and then close the site.





Anyway it really starts to clear things up for me. If you think the subversion of Christianity started only in the 1960s leading up to todays globohomo agenda, then you are sorely mistaken. The devil has been at this for a long time, he has always been trying to humiliate God and his creation.

It turns out that Emperor Constantine may have never actually had a vision of the cross, nor was he ever a true Christian. Instead what seems to be the case is that there were a lot of Christian soldiers in the western parts of the Roman Empire who Constantine needed to recruit. But at the same time he wanted to one-up his predecessors who nailed Jesus to the cross and persecuted the Christians.

Instead of beating Christians through persecution, he decided to beat them by adopting Christianity, and subverting it. He basically mixed a lot of paganism into Christianity, particularly from a mystery religion called Mithraism centered around the pagan god Mithras who had a lot of similarities to Jesus Christ. Many Roman officers were worshipping Mithras in secret temples, while their soldiers worshipped Jesus Christ.

This is similar to how a lot of our elites today worship Lucifer in secret, but claim to be Christians or Jews or whatever in public.

Of course God has a habit of turning bad things into good things, eventually Mithraists were expelled from the Empire and Christianity flourished while pagan gods were mostly forgotten. Perhaps that was the end of this particular cult, but I think it's obvious that a lot of Churches have once again been infiltrated by satanic forces and slowly subverted since at least the 1800s. Dr. Taylor Marshall talks about this in his book Infiltration, he did an interview with Faith Goldy.

However considering the Roman, Egyptian and Babylonian pagan symbology in the Roman Catholic Church in particular, maybe there has been a hidden pagan cult within the religion for a longer time. But that is only speculation, and perhaps we will never find out the full truth.
07-11-2019 01:53 AM
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MichaelWitcoff Offline
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Post: #115
RE: Religious Practices: Are they Biblical?
The titles "Queen of Heaven" and "Queen Mother" for St. Mary really bothered me for a while. Then I learned that "Queen Mother" is the regular title for the mother of a King. If Jesus is King of Heaven, then Mary is the Queen Mother - so it's not the "pagan influence" that it sounds like at first.

And as anyone who looks into it can verify, Constantine had literally zero impact on Christian theology and practice beyond calling the First Ecumenical Council (First Nicaea) and legalizing the faith. These are enormously important events, for which he was canonized as a Saint, but to suggest that he somehow altered Christianity is simply absurd. The earliest description we have of Christian worship is from St. Justin Martyr in the middle of the 2nd century, in which he describes what is very obviously the blueprint for what the Divine Liturgy eventually developed into. This is from Chapter 65 of his "First Apology:"

"But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation.

Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands.

And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to ge’noito [so be it].

And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion."

Christian worship has had the same general outline since the very beginning, and in fact every single ancient house Church that we've found is set up like a small Temple - exactly as each Orthodox Church is today, but less elaborate of course. They even had paintings on the walls, primitive versions of our modern iconography, as you will see if you search for the Dura-Europos Church.

Basically every argument against aesthetic, liturgical worship is defeated simply by reading through Christian history.

Return Of Kings contributor and best-selling author of "On The Mason And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2019 02:37 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
07-11-2019 02:31 AM
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