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Language Learning Experiences
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Kelent Offline
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Language Learning Experiences
I've seen smatterings of language learning threads on this forum over the years. I am aware this is not the primary purpose, but a lot of people seem motivated and I figure since many of the threads are not as active as they once were why not make a place for people to share their experiences?

So, for those who have taken up learning a language they're not native in, why did you initially get into it and what drove you past roadblocks? What language(s) did you decide to learn? Was it any more difficult than you initially thought?


For me, learning Korean and Chinese over the years has been tough. Korean is marginally easier in that I have readily accessible media to digest. Until a few years ago, there was virtually nothing in way of Mandarin language media. Netflix has been a godsend, since many of the movies out of Hong Kong include dubbed Mandarin audio. While it isn't as convenient for reading comprehension, the movies are very good for understanding common-ish speech (as translated from Cantonese).


Feel free to share your experience, or link to other language learning threads I may have missed. The only big one I can think of was that one about Russian.
06-08-2019 01:58 PM
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
First post:

I was fascinated immensely by Russia, and not only for the women but also their public stance on tradition that sjw's find so triggering. I studied the language regularly and fairly seriously for about 3 years and spent 3 months living there, mostly in Siberia.

The way I went about learning it was:

Memrise app, introductory Russian course - for the alphabet and basic survival vocabulary

Reading the Russian Reader series by Kristina Molodovskaya, from elementary to pre-intermediate and intermediate levels. Great series and gets you familiar with some useful vocabulary and also helps with understanding Russia culture. Here's a link to Dama c cobachkoy (lady with a dog) which is one of my favourites: https://www.amazon.ca/Russian-Reader-Pre...way&sr=8-3

Russian movies helped a lot. Watching classic soviet movies on youtube with English subtitles and then again with Russian subtitles, and again and again. Helps to get familiar with that fast talking native accent. Gentlemen of Fortune, Kavkaskaya Pleniza (kidnapping caucus style), adventures of Shurik, Debchata (girls), etc.

Russian pop music is pretty catchy and will help cement some of the very common vocabulary about girls and love and whatever, but older Russian songs are also very useful, like Ochi Cheria, Katyusha, etc.

And perhaps one of the most useful: living in Russia and dating Russian women who can not speak English, which is sort of rare because a lot of them can, and then ones who want to date a foreigner usually are the ones who speak English the best and they are absolutely parasitic. It's generally mutually parasitic though, because each participant is using the other, really.

I'd say one of the biggest benefits of language learning is that you can focus your mind on something that is neutral, or positive rather than concerning yourself with the degenerate state of the world.
06-11-2019 03:25 PM
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No More Mr. Soy Boy Offline
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
I can speak 9 languages fluently and I'm onto my 10th language now, which is Hungarian. It's by far the hardest one I've tried to learn so it's a challenge but I am improving every week and it's interesting because it's another way of thinking about sentences with the different word other compared to English and the other languages I speak.

I would say the biggest thing for me is actually how much better people treat me and the experiences I've had, thanks to it. Whenever I meet for example Italians and they realise I speak fluent Italian, they all start to treat me so well (but they're also very open and kind of extroverted people in general).
And all the Italian girls I've..uhm... made sweet love to, have been because I made a cool first impression and became interesting by speaking their language.

I've also been invited to different events and been able to build connections and meaningful relationships in life that I wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

But I also teached myself pretty much fluent Romanian, just because I was going for a trip there and thought it could be an awesome and underrated spot (yes, I was naive, it's a shit hole).
You would have thought though that I would have raised my social status by being able to speak the language but I noticed the opposite. People there almost looked at me as loser for learning their language and even bothering going there. Complete opposite to the experience I've had with Italians, Romanians were not excited at all that I spoke Romanian, I thought it was odd. Anyway, my advice is not to bother learning smaller shit hole country languages like this unless you're really interested in the language itself.

Learning languages is kind of fun (Duolingo is at least) and it has some positive side effects like it can help me in my career, create friendships, cool experiences, get more out of my trips abroad and help when trying to kiss a girl abroad.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 08:09 PM by No More Mr. Soy Boy.)
06-11-2019 08:05 PM
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Georgepithyou Offline
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
I started learning basic German with duolingo and memrise, I really enjoy the language and how It's very similar to English in a lot of ways
06-12-2019 05:04 AM
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TheBadGuy Offline
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
(06-11-2019 08:05 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  I can speak 9 languages fluently and I'm onto my 10th language now, which is Hungarian. It's by far the hardest one I've tried to learn so it's a challenge but I am improving every week and it's interesting because it's another way of thinking about sentences with the different word other compared to English and the other languages I speak.

I would say the biggest thing for me is actually how much better people treat me and the experiences I've had, thanks to it. Whenever I meet for example Italians and they realise I speak fluent Italian, they all start to treat me so well (but they're also very open and kind of extroverted people in general).
And all the Italian girls I've..uhm... made sweet love to, have been because I made a cool first impression and became interesting by speaking their language.

I've also been invited to different events and been able to build connections and meaningful relationships in life that I wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

But I also teached myself pretty much fluent Romanian, just because I was going for a trip there and thought it could be an awesome and underrated spot (yes, I was naive, it's a shit hole).
You would have thought though that I would have raised my social status by being able to speak the language but I noticed the opposite. People there almost looked at me as loser for learning their language and even bothering going there. Complete opposite to the experience I've had with Italians, Romanians were not excited at all that I spoke Romanian, I thought it was odd. Anyway, my advice is not to bother learning smaller shit hole country languages like this unless you're really interested in the language itself.

Learning languages is kind of fun (Duolingo is at least) and it has some positive side effects like it can help me in my career, create friendships, cool experiences, get more out of my trips abroad and help when trying to kiss a girl abroad.

Could you comment on what you do to learn each language, how much time each one takes you, etc.
06-12-2019 07:22 PM
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The Good Life Offline
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
(06-11-2019 08:05 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  I can speak 9 languages fluently and I'm onto my 10th language now, which is Hungarian. It's by far the hardest one I've tried to learn so it's a challenge but I am improving every week and it's interesting because it's another way of thinking about sentences with the different word other compared to English and the other languages I speak.

I would say the biggest thing for me is actually how much better people treat me and the experiences I've had, thanks to it. Whenever I meet for example Italians and they realise I speak fluent Italian, they all start to treat me so well (but they're also very open and kind of extroverted people in general).
And all the Italian girls I've..uhm... made sweet love to, have been because I made a cool first impression and became interesting by speaking their language.

I've also been invited to different events and been able to build connections and meaningful relationships in life that I wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

But I also teached myself pretty much fluent Romanian, just because I was going for a trip there and thought it could be an awesome and underrated spot (yes, I was naive, it's a shit hole).
You would have thought though that I would have raised my social status by being able to speak the language but I noticed the opposite. People there almost looked at me as loser for learning their language and even bothering going there. Complete opposite to the experience I've had with Italians, Romanians were not excited at all that I spoke Romanian, I thought it was odd. Anyway, my advice is not to bother learning smaller shit hole country languages like this unless you're really interested in the language itself.

Learning languages is kind of fun (Duolingo is at least) and it has some positive side effects like it can help me in my career, create friendships, cool experiences, get more out of my trips abroad and help when trying to kiss a girl abroad.

I feel you on people from certain countries thinking that you are a loser for learning their language. TBH, surprisingly enough, it kind of happens with Brazilians. A lot are open and think that it is cool, but a lot of the upper-middle-class types from the south and southeast will kind of have a "why on earth would you be interested in my culture/language" vibe to them (which is silly because Brazil is an epic country). Contrast that speaking Spanish with a Mexican or Colombian; they are very receptive, happy and impressed that you speak their native language.

It is an interesting concept that kind of gets brushed aside here on this forum.
06-19-2019 01:43 PM
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Kelent Offline
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
Its a very interesting concept, yeah. I wonder why.. could it be they think of English as the prestige language and want to get away from their own culture when talking to a foreigner who speaks English? Especially since you mention class, it could definitely be a class distinction.. but that's just speculation. Did middle class Mexicans or Colombians feel the same way?
06-20-2019 12:13 AM
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Spaniard in Germany Offline
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
I am learning German. And despite what people might say, you need 10 solid years to start talking in the "correct" random order of the words in a sentence. Yes I wrote that right, correct random order. Because the best method to learn "native" german is to build a time machine and bringing your grandparents under gunpoint to have your parents in Germany, and in turn your parents having you being born there.

If not, you will never speak like a "native german" for a german, even in this "german" is actually a turk simply being born in BRD territory. They will praise you and all, but deep inside nothing is ever good enough. It is as if you made a mistake being born somewhere else. This is not the case of americans or brits, they actually appreciate others making an effort to communicate, because english language is about communicating. German language is about using the words in the correct random order with the correct random declination.

So let no one fool you.

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06-20-2019 03:57 PM
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No More Mr. Soy Boy Offline
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
(06-12-2019 07:22 PM)TheBadGuy Wrote:  Could you comment on what you do to learn each language, how much time each one takes you, etc.

I'm bad at writing explaining posts like this, I'll just drop things from my head now.

But I think the best way to go about it if you want to learn a new language is to first study some of the more basic linguistic concepts and those relevant to the one you want to learn. For example, I'm trying to learn Hungarian now so it's very useful to know about nominative, accusative, and possessive cases.

When I learned Italian I had no idea what even a subject, article, noun or object were so I couldn't understand that much from reading texts that were supposed to explain the grammatics. If you can explain these concepts to an 8-year-old, you've grasped it and can move on.

Once you've done that I'd recommend to start looking into the basic words and sentences in the new language and focus on the grammatics in the start. That will be the hardest and usually the least fun part.

For example, now I'm using Duolingo to learn Hungarian and have to constantly do exercises translating sentences. I'm still making lots of mistakes and the wrong grammatics but when I check the solutions, I understand why it was grammatically incorrect and it's more of a case of me just forgetting to use the proper language rule in the right circumstance meanwhile when I learned Italian, I felt like it took forever because I didn't really understand why I had messed up a sentense.

In the last stage I just try to add new useful words to my repertoire.

How much time each one takes?

That depends on what family it belongs to. So I can speak Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, English, Italian, French, Spanish, Romanian and a Scandinavian minority language.

Learning Spanish and Romanian was extremely easy in comparison to Italian and French because they're romance languages and it have just gotten easier and easier with each new one I've mastered.
I'm seeing this brazilian now and I can understand a lot of portugese when she's speaking with other brazilians. I have even made up some perfect portugese sentences with her just by taking the knowledge from languages and how their systems are built up. Same with the Scandinavian ones.
So I suppose portugese would take one and half to three months.

Hungarian belongs to a completely other language family so it has taken longer.

I'd say

-> Use Duolingo and focus more on quality than quantity.
I have a Word file where I collect words and sentences that belongs to a certain category; animals, numbers, relationships, food etc. and files explaining the grammatics. I find that writing words down and collecting them makes me better at remembering them.

-> Learning a new language is more of a marathon than a sprint. I have a relative who worked as a spy and during education had to learn 800 new words per day in a difficult language but he forgot a lot. I think it's because there's like a limit of how much information you can take in and store within a time period and it's better to do a little bit of language studying every day to make it a habit rather than doing shitloads within a short time.

Stage 1: Study lingustic concepts relevant for the language.
Stage 2: Look into the most basic sentences, the alphabet and pronuncation of the letters.
Stage 3: Use Duolingo while simultaneously looking into the grammatics for the present tense so you can start getting an understanding of how to form sentences of shit that is happening right now.
Stage 4: Look into grammatics for future and past and so on.
Stage 5: Focus more on adding new words and get the right pronuncation.
Stage 6: Move more into newspapers, music, podcasts, videos, radio, tv and try to pick up to what people are saying and practice to speak yourself.

On Duolingo I'd say it takes up to about 7000 XP points in a language before it will get significantly easier and you'll be able to pick up quite a lot.
(This post was last modified: 06-21-2019 04:01 PM by No More Mr. Soy Boy.)
06-21-2019 03:58 PM
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
The main thing with learning a foreign language is to keep studying and practicing. At least an hour a day, preferably more, no skipping days. If you do this, you'll get it eventually. Be aware that you'll hit plateaus where it won't seem like you're making any progress. Sometimes it will seem like this for months, but if you keep going you'll eventually learn.

Many Americans say they "aren't good at learning languages" but when you ask them if they study and practice every day the answer is always no. It's like saying you're not good at getting in shape when you don't work out consistently.

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06-22-2019 01:59 PM
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wwtl Offline
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
(06-20-2019 03:57 PM)Spaniard in Germany Wrote:  I am learning German. And despite what people might say, you need 10 solid years to start talking in the "correct" random order of the words in a sentence. Yes I wrote that right, correct random order. Because the best method to learn "native" german is to build a time machine and bringing your grandparents under gunpoint to have your parents in Germany, and in turn your parents having you being born there.

If not, you will never speak like a "native german" for a german, even in this "german" is actually a turk simply being born in BRD territory. They will praise you and all, but deep inside nothing is ever good enough. It is as if you made a mistake being born somewhere else. This is not the case of americans or brits, they actually appreciate others making an effort to communicate, because english language is about communicating. German language is about using the words in the correct random order with the correct random declination.

So let no one fool you.

This Latvian girl picked it up pretty well:





(06-22-2019 01:59 PM)bucky Wrote:  The main thing with learning a foreign language is to keep studying and practicing. At least an hour a day, preferably more, no skipping days. If you do this, you'll get it eventually. Be aware that you'll hit plateaus where it won't seem like you're making any progress. Sometimes it will seem like this for months, but if you keep going you'll eventually learn.

Many Americans say they "aren't good at learning languages" but when you ask them if they study and practice every day the answer is always no. It's like saying you're not good at getting in shape when you don't work out consistently.

Nowadays my second language sees more daily use than my first one. I picked it up using the immersion method almost exclusively. So I never "studied" it properly (the public school lessons I got ages ago were a sad joke).
06-26-2019 09:42 AM
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Kelent Offline
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
Which language did you decide to immerse yourself in? Was it a hard decision to immerse yourself? I've considered that, but the monetary and career costs are a little oftputting. Primarily, my mind goes to people who teach English or study in East Asia and pick up those languages by immersion. Immersion programs obviously exist as well, but imo aren't as valuable as going to the country that speaks your target language and speaking it as much as possible while there.
06-26-2019 12:22 PM
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
(06-26-2019 12:22 PM)Kelent Wrote:  Which language did you decide to immerse yourself in? Was it a hard decision to immerse yourself? I've considered that, but the monetary and career costs are a little oftputting.

The language I'm using right now, it's not my native language.

I didn't immerse by traveling though. I simply switched over my entire private life to the foreign language at the start of this decade. In the beginning I spent 3 hours a day at consumption of foreign language content and participation in language activities (mostly online). I switched the UI language of all my devices and I'm so used to that now that I forgot the native term for "Wi-Fi".

Once you start thinking in foreign tongue - coming up with ideas in your mind without having to translate them first - you reached your goal.

The most interesting thing about immersion language learning is that you build up a different personality which is only in effect when using your second language.

Of course, mistakes will always be plenty. With immersion you have no way to check if something is correct by the rulebook, so you have to "feel" everything. You will never sound as good as a native speaker.
06-26-2019 01:12 PM
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
Learning Spanish now, and it's a blast. Only know enough to have basic conversations. Only took me 5ish months to get there, so kinda happy about that. Something that happens a lot is that I'll make a huge chunk of progress, then I'll stagnate for a while, then I'll make another huge chunk of progress. Been using the ForeverFluent method.

I started learning Spanish because it's a useful language, the girls, and salsa music. It's actually a lot easier than I thought it would be. I've learned more in these last 5 months than in 2 years of high school. The way I was taught sucked ass. Looking forward to finishing my grammar book, learning more key vocab, and going to Colombia.

After Spanish, I want to learn Korean because it looks like the easiest of the Asia languages, then French because Quebec looks cool. I would learn French after Spanish, but I'm worried about mixing up vocab because they're pretty related. No More Mr. Soy Boy, have you had problems with mixing up the vocab in Romance languages, or is this something that I should worry less about?
06-26-2019 02:08 PM
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No More Mr. Soy Boy Offline
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
(06-26-2019 02:08 PM)whitewashedblackguy Wrote:  No More Mr. Soy Boy, have you had problems with mixing up the vocab in Romance languages, or is this something that I should worry less about?

No, I don't think you will have to worry about that.

If I just get to stick to one language, I rarely mix things up. You won't forget Spanish just cause you learn some French and even if you did, it's easy to refresh a language again.

However, I can find it hard to switch back and forth between languages. I've been in environments where I had to talk with some in Spanish just to change to Italian in the next and then back to Spanish and that usually messes me up. But it's not that big of a deal cause people get the gist of what I'm saying anyway (it's not a big deal to make mistakes either).
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2019 06:42 PM by No More Mr. Soy Boy.)
06-26-2019 06:41 PM
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
I'm effectively an immigrant from one English speaking country to another, but I've still found learning Chinese to be very useful on a social level.

Most Chinese immigrants don't self-segregate out of bigotry or hostility to locals, but because they are afraid of language problems or cultural differences. Locals are a challenge that they just prefer to avoid.

When you speak a little of the language, they appreciate the effort, but speak English, it's an icebreaker that shows you value them.

When you are functionally fluent, it opens up a world of friendship and social events, as you no longer need to force the whole group to use a language they may be weak or uncomfortable in.

Dating-wise, Well, it's a DHV and an icebreaker, but the girls most receptive to non-Chinese generally have good English, so Chinese isn't so necessary. Saying that, the majority of my ex's in Australia were Chinese who haven't dated a Westerner, so isn't like it hurts.
06-26-2019 11:01 PM
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
(06-26-2019 11:01 PM)Hephaestus Wrote:  I'm effectively an immigrant from one English speaking country to another, but I've still found learning Chinese to be very useful on a social level.

Most Chinese immigrants don't self-segregate out of bigotry or hostility to locals, but because they are afraid of language problems or cultural differences. Locals are a challenge that they just prefer to avoid.

When you speak a little of the language, they appreciate the effort, but speak English, it's an icebreaker that shows you value them.

When you are functionally fluent, it opens up a world of friendship and social events, as you no longer need to force the whole group to use a language they may be weak or uncomfortable in.

Dating-wise, Well, it's a DHV and an icebreaker, but the girls most receptive to non-Chinese generally have good English, so Chinese isn't so necessary. Saying that, the majority of my ex's in Australia were Chinese who haven't dated a Westerner, so isn't like it hurts.

Thanks, I'm finding similar things tbh. My biggest reason for wanting to learnChinese isn't women (but that certainly helps), its really because I want to travel in Central Asia and across the former Soviet Union in my lifetime. Maybe work for nonprofits or showcasing regional food who the hell knows. Point is, Chinese is spoken across the world. You can always, somewhere, find a Chinese speaker. Similarly, with Russian, you can generally get by in the former Soviet Union with some Russian.


With regard to valuing the Chinese by using English, I fully understand that. A lot of my Chinese friends (US based) feel as though depending on why the person is in the US, it would be more comfortable to use Chinese to open up and then ask if they can switch to English. If they're obviously a young professional, ABC, or university student who should know English, speak normally and definitely use it as an icebreaker. However for those that don't know, asking supposedly eases the tension.


A great example where my basic Chinese skills helped was when I went to a Taiwanese chain called A&J. The staff is from Taiwan, usually speaks both Mandarin and English, but primarily they use Mandarin. Most of the clientele after all are Chinese. So I get in there, pretty much the only gweilo/laowai/waiguoren, and the service is very short. I spoke English, pointed to what I wanted, and the waitress brought me my food. I went back about two weeks later, when they said Ni hao, I replied in kind. When they asked how many, I said yi ge, when I ordered my food I basically said 请我可以(Food)?.. The waitress lit up and asked if I really knew what I was saying, we laughed, had a bit of smalltalk. I didn't need one but when a relative came to visit and needed a fork I asked for "美国筷子"... which got a laugh. Point is, while you might be in an Anglophone country, and speaking English is great for both parties, know where you are I guess? I dunno, I'm not Chinese, this is just my personal experience.
06-26-2019 11:19 PM
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
(06-26-2019 06:41 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  
(06-26-2019 02:08 PM)whitewashedblackguy Wrote:  No More Mr. Soy Boy, have you had problems with mixing up the vocab in Romance languages, or is this something that I should worry less about?

No, I don't think you will have to worry about that.

If I just get to stick to one language, I rarely mix things up. You won't forget Spanish just cause you learn some French and even if you did, it's easy to refresh a language again.

However, I can find it hard to switch back and forth between languages. I've been in environments where I had to talk with some in Spanish just to change to Italian in the next and then back to Spanish and that usually messes me up. But it's not that big of a deal cause people get the gist of what I'm saying anyway (it's not a big deal to make mistakes either).

Thanks I'll go down the French route afterwards. I'm more likely to use french than korean anyways. Plus, the amount of cute French girls I saw in Yucatan give great motivation Icon_biggrin
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2019 01:16 PM by whitewashedblackguy.)
06-27-2019 12:36 PM
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
(06-26-2019 09:42 AM)wwtl Wrote:  
(06-20-2019 03:57 PM)Spaniard in Germany Wrote:  I am learning German. And despite what people might say, you need 10 solid years to start talking in the "correct" random order of the words in a sentence. Yes I wrote that right, correct random order. Because the best method to learn "native" german is to build a time machine and bringing your grandparents under gunpoint to have your parents in Germany, and in turn your parents having you being born there.

If not, you will never speak like a "native german" for a german, even in this "german" is actually a turk simply being born in BRD territory. They will praise you and all, but deep inside nothing is ever good enough. It is as if you made a mistake being born somewhere else. This is not the case of americans or brits, they actually appreciate others making an effort to communicate, because english language is about communicating. German language is about using the words in the correct random order with the correct random declination.

So let no one fool you.

This Latvian girl picked it up pretty well:





(06-22-2019 01:59 PM)bucky Wrote:  The main thing with learning a foreign language is to keep studying and practicing. At least an hour a day, preferably more, no skipping days. If you do this, you'll get it eventually. Be aware that you'll hit plateaus where it won't seem like you're making any progress. Sometimes it will seem like this for months, but if you keep going you'll eventually learn.

Many Americans say they "aren't good at learning languages" but when you ask them if they study and practice every day the answer is always no. It's like saying you're not good at getting in shape when you don't work out consistently.

Nowadays my second language sees more daily use than my first one. I picked it up using the immersion method almost exclusively. So I never "studied" it properly (the public school lessons I got ages ago were a sad joke).

Semantics. I'm sure you put in conscious and consistent effort to learn. I hate it when people say "I picked up" a language because it implies you can just learn by osmosis. You can't. All you need to do for evidence of this is look at the massive number of American ex pats who've been in Latin America for years and don't know more than a half dozen words of Spanish.

Feminism in ten words: "Stop objectifying women! Can't you see I've hit the wall?" -Leonard D Neubache
06-27-2019 01:31 PM
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wwtl Offline
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
(06-27-2019 01:31 PM)bucky Wrote:  Semantics. I'm sure you put in conscious and consistent effort to learn. I hate it when people say "I picked up" a language because it implies you can just learn by osmosis. You can't. All you need to do for evidence of this is look at the massive number of American ex pats who've been in Latin America for years and don't know more than a half dozen words of Spanish.

My effort focused on daily exposure. I simply replaced the content I was reading/watching anyway with foreign language content, including books. This is how I occasionally ended up on ROK and Roosh's blog. This passive part was rather effortless. Initially 70-90 % of the meaning flew by unnoticed, but one quickly starts to grasp stuff from context. Then it clicked and I switched to occasionally writing down a word to look it up.

Later I started communicating back to get up to speed in active language use. This part was pretty cumbersome in the beginning, but it improved quickly with daily shitposting.

At some point my native language saw so little use that I felt like I emigrated from my country. But now that God improved my social life it's seeing some proper use again.
06-27-2019 02:15 PM
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
(06-20-2019 03:57 PM)Spaniard in Germany Wrote:  I am learning German. And despite what people might say, you need 10 solid years to start talking in the "correct" random order of the words in a sentence. Yes I wrote that right, correct random order. Because the best method to learn "native" german is to build a time machine and bringing your grandparents under gunpoint to have your parents in Germany, and in turn your parents having you being born there.

If not, you will never speak like a "native german" for a german, even in this "german" is actually a turk simply being born in BRD territory. They will praise you and all, but deep inside nothing is ever good enough. It is as if you made a mistake being born somewhere else. This is not the case of americans or brits, they actually appreciate others making an effort to communicate, because english language is about communicating. German language is about using the words in the correct random order with the correct random declination.

So let no one fool you.

I honestly think learning German is a fools errand.

It's an intricate language and you're expected to speak it at the highest level even as a secretary who needs to have a masters degree to get her job these days anyway. tard

You're best off just getting a tech bro job if you aren't working in one already and just learning a couple words to deal with people that can't speak English and asking / paying for help when it comes to bureaucratic stuff. I highly doubt you speaking German to near native level would enable you to gain acceptance in the German managing class if you were not born in Germany.

I'm a native speaker and I was treated like a total foreigner after 10 years abroad and quickly left again as there was no way for me to integrate. My experience was considered worthless and even though I worked for lots of big name US companies. I'm from an upper middle class background and companies treated my like a begging welfare collecting peasant. Nobody in US companies has ever treated me like that and I was always paid well as well, while German companies generally nickle and dime workers and offer breakfast cereals and free fruits as grand benefits. tard

You're best off playing the highly skilled foreigner that doesn't need to speak German because you're so highly skilled card instead of trying to appease Germans that will then peg you at rapefugee level or take jabs at you because they feel insecure about their own social status and income.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2019 02:28 PM by GloboHobo.)
06-27-2019 02:26 PM
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wwtl Offline
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
(06-27-2019 02:26 PM)GloboHobo Wrote:  I honestly think learning German is a fools errand.

It's an intricate language and you're expected to speak it at the highest level even as a secretary who needs to have a masters degree to get her job these days anyway. tard

You're best off just getting a tech bro job if you aren't working in one already and just learning a couple words to deal with people that can't speak English and asking / paying for help when it comes to bureaucratic stuff. I highly doubt you speaking German to near native level would enable you to gain acceptance in the German managing class if you were not born in Germany.

You have differentiate between the language and the culture of the host country. The language is pretty robust, you don't need to reach high proficiency to successfully use it. For example while having the proper gender for each noun is nice to have, it's not necessary to bring your point across.

The culture of treating foreigners is a result of how Germans were treated post 1945. Forced immigration through NATO deals started in the 1960s already (only in West Germany), and almost none of those Muslim immigrants put any effort into properly learning German. They use some kind of pidgin to communicate with the host culture and continue to use their native languages.

In reaction to this native Germans naturally developed customs to separate themselves from these lowlifes they involuntarily have to deal with on daily basis. So what you see now is a direct result of post-war American foreign policy.
06-29-2019 06:36 AM
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BBinger
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
(06-29-2019 06:36 AM)wwtl Wrote:  
(06-27-2019 02:26 PM)GloboHobo Wrote:  I honestly think learning German is a fools errand.

It's an intricate language and you're expected to speak it at the highest level even as a secretary who needs to have a masters degree to get her job these days anyway. tard

You're best off just getting a tech bro job if you aren't working in one already and just learning a couple words to deal with people that can't speak English and asking / paying for help when it comes to bureaucratic stuff. I highly doubt you speaking German to near native level would enable you to gain acceptance in the German managing class if you were not born in Germany.

You have differentiate between the language and the culture of the host country. The language is pretty robust, you don't need to reach high proficiency to successfully use it. For example while having the proper gender for each noun is nice to have, it's not necessary to bring your point across.

The culture of treating foreigners is a result of how Germans were treated post 1945. Forced immigration through NATO deals started in the 1960s already (only in West Germany), and almost none of those Muslim immigrants put any effort into properly learning German. They use some kind of pidgin to communicate with the host culture and continue to use their native languages.

In reaction to this native Germans naturally developed customs to separate themselves from these lowlifes they involuntarily have to deal with on daily basis. So what you see now is a direct result of post-war American foreign policy.

Germany has different social classes and your ability to articulate yourself ultimately shows the social class of you or your parents.

It's not as extreme as in the UK or France, but if you can't articulate yourself to the highest level and come across like a local people won't really trust your professionalism and nobody will hire you for a higher level job.

I have met an American guy who spoke German very well, worked as a very highly paid manager and had been in Germany for a decade or so, but he was always on the defense, trying to appease the natives, which is a strange way to live for sure, especially if you are on the upper end of the income spectrum.
06-30-2019 06:11 AM
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
What helped you guys to stop "freezing" mid conversation?

I can often start a conversation, answer a few questions back and forth, then somehow my brain just goes on lock down and I don't have any words anymore.

Is this part of the process? Is there some exercise that can help with this?
(This post was last modified: 07-02-2019 05:40 AM by fktax.)
07-02-2019 05:40 AM
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The Good Life Offline
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RE: Language Learning Experiences
(06-20-2019 12:13 AM)Kelent Wrote:  Its a very interesting concept, yeah. I wonder why.. could it be they think of English as the prestige language and want to get away from their own culture when talking to a foreigner who speaks English? Especially since you mention class, it could definitely be a class distinction.. but that's just speculation. Did middle class Mexicans or Colombians feel the same way?

In my experience, any Hispanic Latino is receptive and responds positively to a gringo speaking Spanish from any class. From Brazil it doesn't even have to be upper middle class, it just kind of depends on the person. I think it has to do with the phenomenon called mongrel complex or how they say it "complexo de vira-lata". It's basically a collective inferiority complex that makes them reject everything from their own culture for everything gringo. So, if you are a gringo and learn their language, they see you as being weird because why on earth would anybody from outside of Brazil involve themselves with anything Brazilian? In their eyes, subconsciously, they are totally inferior.
07-03-2019 03:16 PM
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