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Eschatology: Mark of the Beast, Great Tribulation, Second Coming
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Tail Gunner Offline
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Post: #126
RE: Eschatology: Mark of the Beast, Great Tribulation, Second Coming
(06-23-2019 12:39 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 12:36 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 12:32 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 11:43 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 11:12 PM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  There hasn't been a simultaneous resurrection of all the righteous dead that would coincide with his true 2nd coming.

This likely occurred on September 24, 70 AD, shortly after the destruction of the temple.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/Hyper/2...ction.html

Perhaps. But there hasn't been any evidence of people fleeing to hide from Jesus all over the world. Nor armies being raised to try to kill Jesus as he comes.

To which bible verses do you refer?

Quote:11Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. 12He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood,a and His name is The Word of God.

14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. 15And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter.b He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh:King of kings and Lord of lords.

Quote:17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice to all the birds flying overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of all men slave and free, small and great.”

19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army. 20But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse.

And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

https://biblehub.com/bsb/revelation/19.htm

Quote:Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him— even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen

https://biblehub.com/revelation/1-7.htm


Quote:12And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. 14The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

15Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

https://biblehub.com/bsb/revelation/6.htm

You have me confused. Unless I am mistaken, in Post #118 you indicated that you are a partial preterist, which means that you believe that all but the last three chapters of the Book of Revelation have been fulfilled. But here you cite Chapters 6 and 19, which both partial preterists and full preterists agree have been fulfilled.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/2018_fe...-chapters/
06-23-2019 12:54 AM
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infowarrior1 Offline
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Post: #127
RE: Eschatology: Mark of the Beast, Great Tribulation, Second Coming
(06-23-2019 12:54 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 12:39 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 12:36 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 12:32 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 11:43 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  This likely occurred on September 24, 70 AD, shortly after the destruction of the temple.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/Hyper/2...ction.html

Perhaps. But there hasn't been any evidence of people fleeing to hide from Jesus all over the world. Nor armies being raised to try to kill Jesus as he comes.

To which bible verses do you refer?

Quote:11Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. 12He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood,a and His name is The Word of God.

14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. 15And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter.b He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh:King of kings and Lord of lords.

Quote:17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice to all the birds flying overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of all men slave and free, small and great.”

19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army. 20But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse.

And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

https://biblehub.com/bsb/revelation/19.htm

Quote:Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him— even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen

https://biblehub.com/revelation/1-7.htm


Quote:12And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. 14The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

15Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

https://biblehub.com/bsb/revelation/6.htm

You have me confused. Unless I am mistaken, in Post #118 you indicated that you are a partial preterist, which means that you believe that all but the last three chapters of the Book of Revelation have been fulfilled. But here you cite Chapters 6 and 19, which both partial preterists and full preterists agree have been fulfilled.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/2018_fe...-chapters/
Oh. To clarify all that I know of preterism is what has been posted on this forum. So I am changing in views in accordance with what may be true as I find out.

I just looked through the website and I just don't find the idea of a spiritual awakening resurrection convincing. There are only 2 forms of resurrection as far as I know from my own reading of scripture. The physical resurrection of the righteous and of the wicked.

I don't see any precedent for metaphorical resurrection that is not of the body.
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2019 10:25 PM by infowarrior1.)
06-23-2019 10:13 PM
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Tail Gunner Offline
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Post: #128
RE: Eschatology: Mark of the Beast, Great Tribulation, Second Coming
(06-23-2019 10:13 PM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 12:54 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 12:39 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 12:36 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 12:32 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  Perhaps. But there hasn't been any evidence of people fleeing to hide from Jesus all over the world. Nor armies being raised to try to kill Jesus as he comes.

To which bible verses do you refer?

Quote:11Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. 12He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood,a and His name is The Word of God.

14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. 15And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter.b He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh:King of kings and Lord of lords.

Quote:17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice to all the birds flying overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of all men slave and free, small and great.”

19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army. 20But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse.

And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

https://biblehub.com/bsb/revelation/19.htm

Quote:Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him— even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen

https://biblehub.com/revelation/1-7.htm


Quote:12And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. 14The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

15Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

https://biblehub.com/bsb/revelation/6.htm

You have me confused. Unless I am mistaken, in Post #118 you indicated that you are a partial preterist, which means that you believe that all but the last three chapters of the Book of Revelation have been fulfilled. But here you cite Chapters 6 and 19, which both partial preterists and full preterists agree have been fulfilled.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/2018_fe...-chapters/
Oh. To clarify all that I know of preterism is what has been posted on this forum. So I am changing in views in accordance with what may be true as I find out.

I just looked through the website and I just don't find the idea of a spiritual awakening resurrection convincing. There are only 2 forms of resurrection as far as I know from my own reading of scripture. The physical resurrection of the righteous and of the wicked.

I don't see any precedent for metaphorical resurrection that is not of the body.

Some food for thought: the idea of a physical rapture never existed in the first 1800 years of Christianity, until the 1830s when John Darby suddenly discovered it. This is the same John Darby who also created the idea of dispensational millenialism, which you are espousing (which also appeared in Christianity for the first time in the mid-1800s). This is the very same doctrine that now tethers Christianity, and the United States, to modern-day Israel.

Quote:Darby has been credited with originating the pre-tribulational rapture theory wherein Christ will suddenly remove His bride, the Church, from this world to its heavenly destiny before the judgments of the tribulation. Thus the prophetic program resumes with Israel's earthly destiny. Dispensationalist beliefs about the fate of the Jews and the re-establishment of the Kingdom of Israel put dispensationalists at the forefront of Christian Zionism, because “God is able to graft them in again,” and they believe that in His grace he will do so according to their understanding of Old Testament prophecy. They believe that, while the ways of God may change, His purposes to bless Israel will never be forgotten, just as He has shown unmerited favour to the Church, He will do so to a remnant of Israel to fulfill all the promises made to the genetic seed of Abraham.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nelson_Darby
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2019 11:01 PM by Tail Gunner.)
06-23-2019 11:00 PM
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infowarrior1
infowarrior1 Offline
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Post: #129
RE: Eschatology: Mark of the Beast, Great Tribulation, Second Coming
(06-23-2019 11:00 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 10:13 PM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 12:54 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 12:39 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 12:36 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  To which bible verses do you refer?

Quote:11Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. 12He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood,a and His name is The Word of God.

14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. 15And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter.b He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh:King of kings and Lord of lords.

Quote:17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice to all the birds flying overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of all men slave and free, small and great.”

19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army. 20But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse.

And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

https://biblehub.com/bsb/revelation/19.htm

Quote:Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him— even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen

https://biblehub.com/revelation/1-7.htm


Quote:12And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. 14The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

15Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

https://biblehub.com/bsb/revelation/6.htm

You have me confused. Unless I am mistaken, in Post #118 you indicated that you are a partial preterist, which means that you believe that all but the last three chapters of the Book of Revelation have been fulfilled. But here you cite Chapters 6 and 19, which both partial preterists and full preterists agree have been fulfilled.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/2018_fe...-chapters/
Oh. To clarify all that I know of preterism is what has been posted on this forum. So I am changing in views in accordance with what may be true as I find out.

I just looked through the website and I just don't find the idea of a spiritual awakening resurrection convincing. There are only 2 forms of resurrection as far as I know from my own reading of scripture. The physical resurrection of the righteous and of the wicked.

I don't see any precedent for metaphorical resurrection that is not of the body.

Some food for thought: the idea of a physical rapture never existed in the first 1800 years of Christianity, until the 1830s when John Darby suddenly discovered it. This is the same John Darby who also created the idea of dispensational millenialism, which you are espousing (which also appeared in Christianity for the first time in the mid-1800s). This is the very same doctrine that now tethers Christianity, and the United States, to modern-day Israel.

Quote:Darby has been credited with originating the pre-tribulational rapture theory wherein Christ will suddenly remove His bride, the Church, from this world to its heavenly destiny before the judgments of the tribulation. Thus the prophetic program resumes with Israel's earthly destiny. Dispensationalist beliefs about the fate of the Jews and the re-establishment of the Kingdom of Israel put dispensationalists at the forefront of Christian Zionism, because “God is able to graft them in again,” and they believe that in His grace he will do so according to their understanding of Old Testament prophecy. They believe that, while the ways of God may change, His purposes to bless Israel will never be forgotten, just as He has shown unmerited favour to the Church, He will do so to a remnant of Israel to fulfill all the promises made to the genetic seed of Abraham.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nelson_Darby

I actually believe in a rapture after the tribulation when the general resurrection of the righteous has occurred.


Just before Christ comes to destroy all the armies of the earth that seek to defeat him.
06-24-2019 02:45 AM
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Spectrumwalker Offline
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Post: #130
RE: Eschatology: Mark of the Beast, Great Tribulation, Second Coming
The Devil's Master Plan for the End Times





Full sermon here.



Dreams are like horses; they run wild on the earth. Catch one and ride it. Throw a leg over and ride it for all its worth.
Psalm 25:7
https://youtu.be/vHVoMCH10Wk
07-11-2019 08:58 PM
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