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Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
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Janardan Offline
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Post: #1
Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
This is more a question for the more senior guys than the newbies.

I've been in the game for about four years (not counting two in a relationship). I've done fairly well with notches, FWBs, and had one great LTR that ended pretty recently. But one thing that does bother me is the amount of work I've had to put in.

I partied my ass off to get most of my notches, daygamed my ass off to get most of my FWBs, and out of all of thousands of approaches and hookups and notches I met one great girl who I settled down with for a time period. The amount of work I've put into this is pretty ridiculous when I think about it. I could be a world champion martial artist, a great musician, or something else if I dedicated all that time and effort to other things.

And also I've recurrently gotten flaked on or ghosted by girls who I actually liked and "fooled around with". I've had a beautiful Iraqi girl and just recently an attractive Indian girl basically ghost after an awesome first date and "fooling around" afterward. It low key sucks, I'd almost rather have never met these girls then to meet them, smash, then get ghosted on.

I guess my question is if this really does happen to everyone, and if not, whether any guys can report having successfully improved their percentages. I know the solution is just getting more attractive and chilling out about things. And I'm in sales so I get that many things in life can be a numbers game. I'm just wondering if there are any members for whom it's not a numbers game and don't need to send hundreds of Tinder messages or do tons of approaches in a club.
06-23-2019 10:30 PM
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GT777733 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
The answer is yes.

There are many reasons for this (three of the biggest being that girls have a ridiculous amount of options to choose from apart from you so almost everyone is disposable, attention spans are incredibly short, and the modern dating mindset is not to catch feelings for one particular person and to play the game not to get hurt or taken advantage of).

This is part of the reason I think older more experienced guys end up gravitating towards a relationship (apart from wanting a family or kids in the future), or taking a break from women altogether.

You start valuing your time far more, and you realise that pursuing girls is an incredibly poor use of time that you could be using to do much more important things that give you far more fulfillment (like hanging with friends or family) and give you far better long term returns (like building money, travelling, and doing other cool sh*t).

Also, you can meet some really cool and amazing girls...don't get me wrong (and those girls make dating worth it). But, my experience is that those girls are few and far between.
From a values perspective, dating in 2019 is pretty materialistic, vapid and hollow. The more you do it, the more you can sink into that frame of mind, and I've found it not to be very healthy long term - so I've become more choosy with who I get involved with and who I pursue (quality over quantity), and I also screen out girls immediately with bad or flaky energy (which turns some girls crazy because they are so used to guys giving them unlimited attention get in their pants).

Just my two cents.
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2019 10:48 PM by GT777733.)
06-23-2019 10:41 PM
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UlugBeg Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
Yeah. Ghosting, flaking etc... All part of the game. Other than being annoying, it doesn’t really bother me. There’s ALWAYS another one. And sometimes, it really was just a mistake/misunderstanding and they come back. As long as you can enjoy yourself and easily move on to the next one, just have fun.
06-23-2019 10:55 PM
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floridaboiii Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
It happens to everyone man. Charge it to the game. In my opinion girls should never be the focus of your life or you wont end up happy.
06-23-2019 11:02 PM
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redbeard Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?

1 Year NoFap Veteran --- No Days Off in Trump's America
06-23-2019 11:11 PM
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True Balla Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
Yep, agree with all your views and have probably experienced all of the sames things
06-23-2019 11:32 PM
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Janardan Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
Appreciate the replies. I guess it's not really the straight up rejections and Tinder flakes that bother me. What does mess with my head is when I go on a great date and hook up with a girl who I'm very attracted to, then get ghosted on or rejected afterward. It's a torturous experience. Like I have this beautiful memory and am on a high for several days, then get a door slammed on my face. Not going to lie, that shit sucks.

But it's good to know that I'm not alone in this and that even experienced guys deal with it.
06-23-2019 11:39 PM
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Graft Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
My man.

You can look like Cristiano Ronaldo, make 300k/year in NYC, penthouse apartment, exotic travels, flashy sports cars, chiseled physique, etc etc and still get ghosted and flaked by the majority of women.

Trust me. They just don't care about men that much until it's too late.

I built this empire and I did it by myself. Nobody did it for me. Not Ivana, not Marla. Nobody! ~Donald Trump
06-23-2019 11:45 PM
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N°6 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
I’m reminded of the line in a book which pretty much says that women agitate to get into relationships but are normally the ones to end them (if anyone know which book this comes from, let me know).

Now, women end every single interaction from texting, through to dating, or short term and long term sexual relationships and decades of marriage.

During the 2000s, sex would guarantee at least a mini relationship if the man wanted it. Now it does very little to reduce the ghosting risk from the high levels at the texting stage. Even with acknowledging the above, I’m still surprised how a weekend date with a lot of sex, food, doing stuff together outside the bedroom which creates a bond ends up as a ONS because the woman goes cold after leaving.

It’s the biggest sea change I’ve seen in Game and it’s inevitable that men are going to develop the expectation of ghosting before determining the Cost - Risk - Benefit of women.
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2019 11:59 PM by N°6.)
06-23-2019 11:57 PM
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SilentOne Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
Yes.

This is all part of the Game. That is why women should never be your main priority. You said it yourself what you would be able to accomplish without that massive distraction. They live on getting your attention.

Nothing to get to upset about. Either become a monk or put the work in by improving yourself for yourself and the pieces will just fall into place. Improving your physique, cash flow, and mouthpiece will reduce the odds of the flaking. Most importantly do it for yourself, not the women.
06-24-2019 12:04 AM
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Janardan Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
(06-23-2019 11:57 PM)N°6 Wrote:  I’m reminded of the line in a book which pretty much says that women agitate to get into relationships but are normally the ones to end them (if anyone know which book this comes from, let me know).

Now, women end every single interaction from texting, through to dating, or short term and long term sexual relationships and decades of marriage.

During the 2000s, sex would guarantee at least a mini relationship if the man wanted it. Now it does very little to reduce the ghosting risk from the high levels at the texting stage. Even with acknowledging the above, I’m still surprised how a weekend date with a lot of sex, food, doing stuff together outside the bedroom which creates a bond ends up as a ONS because the woman goes cold after leaving.

It’s the biggest sea change I’ve seen in Game and it’s inevitable that men are going to develop the expectation of ghosting before determining the Cost - Risk - Benefit of women.

On the one hand this depresses me. You think everything is going great, then you get a door slammed in your face. But on the other hand, I think it's just human nature and modern dating. For example I hooked up with a different girl two weeks ago. I haven't texted her since despite (I think) telling her I wanted to see her again. I broke up with my LTR and she was heartbroken over it. So I guess it can go both ways. It is important not to expect too much, enjoy the experiences as they come, and not get discouraged.

I think it's also important to empathize with the women a little bit so you don't get too embittered. I had pretty good reasons for ghosting the girl and ending the LTR that I mentioned above. They were fine people who I wish the best for, but I just don't feel like I really want to make time for them.

Things like this kind of do make me want to go monk mode for a while, the ups and downs of game can be difficult to deal with.
06-24-2019 12:17 AM
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standard Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
yeah its all numbers. chicks are overwhelmed with options. they could have a hot guy any second they want. everythings superficial. hooking up and ghosting is modern dating.
06-24-2019 03:24 AM
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Atlanta Man Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
Yes.

Thank dating apps and social media. Male attention? There is an app for that. Male sexual attention? There is an app for that. Need a Beta Male provider to settle for after your thirties? There is an app for that. Long term happiness.....not so much.

Delicious Tacos is the voice of my generation....
06-24-2019 10:43 AM
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yang2287 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
Yep, i get rejected, flaked on, ghosted all the time

I have almost come to expect ghosting and flaking so i plan for this by having several options and investing as little of my time and money as possible

It's very very sad of modern dating, women got a lot of options, you OP and every single man out there is diposable. Don't believe the scam if she says otherwise or pledges undying love for ever or any other bullshit, Scam!!!

when people have options, they will choose the best to maximise their rewards, I saw the difference between my former LTR when she was using an old nokia phone and when her old nokia got so bad she had to take a smartphone. Don't need to tell you the relationship went into toilet from there

I also seen it in a girl who moves from a small town to a big city.

I am still working to the point where i can learn to accept rejections (need to become a psychopath if you will)

Last night was in a Night club in Montreal and for the first time in a long time i started approaching again, i don't know why but it felt so good even though i was being rejected, i felt on top of the world.

I think getting rejected by hot girls is helping build my approach confidence again destroyed by excessive reliance on dating apps and sheer reluctance to night game for several months now (refusal to invest time due to abysmal returns in the city i lived). At least the girls here were a bit nice in their rejection and didn't look at me like a bag of shit.

So my resolve is to screen better, approach only hot girls and even with a rejection keep working on it

Anyway to OP, it is very important not to over invest time and money, it could really be depressing if you don't get the returns you expect

Location matters a lot, in some locations you don't need to lift your finger that much and in some places it's a grind for abysmal results

what i have learnt about myself since i've been in Montreal is that i gotta keep approaching and i need to move the hell out of my current city in France
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2019 10:58 AM by yang2287.)
06-24-2019 10:57 AM
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griffinmill Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
In Roosh's new book he talks about how you'll be flaked on until you die, so get used to it. The amount of flaking, ghosting and outright rejection you'll experience is dependent on your value, but you'll experience it nonetheless.

How could could you expect it to be otherwise?
06-24-2019 11:16 AM
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BroodingSea Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
Ghosting and flaking are hard to swallow but you have to hard code this into your expectations. You have good sets, daygame or nightgame experiences, great first dates, great txt interactions and the reality is that many of these are dead on their feet. Embrace it and keep volume going. Easier said than done admittedly, but it's all part of the ecology.
06-26-2019 03:44 AM
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Holysmokes Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
Yes.

Get used to it.
06-26-2019 01:06 PM
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JakckieDanger437 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
(06-26-2019 01:06 PM)Holysmokes Wrote:  Yes.

Get used to it.

Came here to say this. Just get used to it, man. It's a part of the game, and who cares?

If you're freaking out over a single ghost or flake, you don't have an interesting and fulfilling life. Focus on yourself first. Girls are an addition to your life, not the sole purpose.
06-26-2019 06:30 PM
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MichaelWitcoff Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
I got into the game back in the days when it was dominated by Mystery Method and things of that nature, somewhere around 2008 if memory serves. Flaking was always part of it, but it has gotten worse with every passing year, and I don't recall full-on ghosting happening until about 4 or 5 years ago...but it's very common now. Even though I'm no longer pursuing casual sex, I still sometimes approach and get numbers, just to keep the blade sharp and possibly meet a woman I can take seriously for a meaningful relationship, and it's worse now than it's ever been despite the fact that my "market value" has objectively never been higher.

So don't take it too personally, the culture has shifted in many negative directions over the last decade and this is just one of them.

Return Of Kings contributor and best-selling author of "On The Mason And Their Lies."
06-27-2019 06:32 PM
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flyinghorse Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
I don't class it as ghosting unless you've been on at least 3 dates.

Before that we don't owe each other anything (but courtesy is nice).

With this in mind - I've never been ghosted and haven't ghosted anyone
06-27-2019 09:27 PM
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The ZOG-WAG Complex Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
I'm going to say yes. It is pretty bad. But has only gotten worse with tech advancements.

Per NYC daygamer Paul Janka, it's an 11 percent conversation rate from getting a number to having sex, in other words, out of 9 women that you get numbers from, only one will have sex with you...:

Quote:The 11% Rule
You may find your results differ, but in two independent data sets (mine and that of a friend) the following rule holds: I fuck 11% of the girls whose number I get. I work hard and “number close” a hundred girls and I’m rewarded with sex with eleven of them. By the way, the number seems to hold over a large sample size, so my advice is get the numbers of the hottest girls you can, because it makes no difference: you’ll still fuck 11% of them.

What do we make of this number, eleven? It’s just barely a double-digit figure. In some situations, 11% is a poor showing. Getting an eleven on a math test is abysmal. However, an 11% return on an investment isn’t terrible, if economic conditions are rough. A defect rate at a Toyota plant of 11% wouldn’t be acceptable. So it’s the context that’s important. 11% may seem low at first blush, but it’s actually quite a strong number. Once you get your game strong and resilient, you’ll attempt to meet almost every cute girl that crosses the transom. If you live in a target-rich environment, like a big city, you’ll probably cross forty cute girls a day. You can see where this is going…

To illustrate, I’ll take a look at my week just passed. I had sex with 5 girls from Friday to Wednesday night. Very strong, even by my standards. 4 were new, one a repeat. Where did I meet them? One at a lounge months ago and she’s been out of town, busy, yadda, yadda. Finally, it happened. She was on her period, so it was a bloodbath. Good sex, though. The next one I met down the street during the lunch break in a retail area. She was eager, but a tease. She got it, though. The next was a girl I’ve been seeing casually for a month, or so. I met her in a church, believe it or not. And she’s a real little maniac. The fourth was a girl I met sitting near a fountain listening to music while she contemplated a job search. She came over but it was a false start; two days later we met and it was on. Great sex, 22 year-old Filipina/German. She felt amazing. Wednesday I slept with a British-born Southern woman. I met her on the subway a week earlier.

Writing this now, it’s more evident than ever that a player needs time. I have an efficient system, but I still need time to accommodate false starts, teases, and general logistics. I mention these women to show you the diversity of places I meet them and I’m sure if I ran the regression analysis, I’d find that I’d picked-up 45 girls to enjoy these 5 on my terms. What happened to the rest of the girls?

The break-down of pick-ups, at least in Manhattan, looks like this:
2 girls either don’t respond to texts or fall off after three or four ping-pongs. [b]We never meet.[/b]
4 girls continue to text but always have an excuse why they can’t meet: girlfriend’s birthday party, “at dinner”, can’t leave roommates, have to wake up early… These types often want you to come out to meet them. Don’t fall for that; you’ll get sucked into a vortex of female group dynamics that will kill your game. Effectively, they don’t want to meet. These are the most frustrating, and often are quite hot. I still get bogged down in this sometimes. Careful!

The remaining 4 will meet on my terms: at my house, after 9PM, alone.
1 comes over and doesn’t play. The conditions are ideal but she’s hung up on some nonsense and won’t let herself enjoy the encounter. Reasons include: “I don’t know you”, her period, can’t stay long, etc.
1 or 2 will give me head but not sex.
1 or 2, I’ll fuck.

This is a rough template of what you can expect when you’re at the top of your game. And this, of course is without spending a nickel, or doing much more than chatting for a few seconds and then texting at various points through the day.

Here’s one more thing that’s worth considering. I said it may have taken me 45 “number closes” to fuck 5 girls. Arguably, I’m leaving a lot on the table. Other guys may deem it worthwhile to handle each number with kid gloves and respect the delicate sensibilities of the girls and woo them in. Maybe. I have a friend who takes a slightly more personal approach; I’m more industrial. Interestingly, we have the same ratio, tested over both our considerable sample sizes: 11%.

On the front end, 45 number closes are easy in the course of a week. They wouldn’t have been in the beginning, but now with my game so tight I can accomplish that over the course of the week just running errands and getting coffee and grocery shopping. If each one takes about a minute, that’s less than an hour of work to fuck 5 girls. Most guys put in more than an hour on a first date with some chick and they may not even fuck her. Granted, there’s the time need for text follow-up but that’s fun (usually), it can be done anywhere and it’s a process that’s dynamic, meaning I sense pretty quickly which ones will play and I don’t spend much time on the duds.

Pick your strategy. I’ve settled on this right now because it’s the most powerful game I’ve seen. And I’ve run with some strong players here in NYC.

As has been said many times before, it's all about abundance mentality. Pickup is very much a numbers game and you miss 100 percent of the swings you don't take.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2019 03:14 PM by The ZOG-WAG Complex.)
06-28-2019 03:12 PM
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BroodingSea Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
Love that 11% rule post. Highy motivating.
06-29-2019 04:59 AM
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lunchmoney Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
Just got ghosted this week. Life happens.
06-29-2019 12:11 PM
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Pointer Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
I'd take those statistics with a healthy dose of skepticism. Unless you're Leonardo Dicaprio's twin brother, a 1 minute approach will not consistently result in a phone number. You have to go through all the stages of the London daygame model at 10x speed lol...just typing in the phone number and checking to see if it's real can take more than that.

11% success rate is very high in the PUA community. Krauser in 2015 when he was at the peak of his game did 670 approaches and got laid 15 times. That's like 2% success rate. I also remember from some podcast that Tom Torero said something about 1 in 30 approaches so again, closer to 2-3%. For me that sounds about right.
Of course if you are tall and handsome and you aim for 2-3 dates with every girl you can probably double that. A lot of guys destroy their chances because they are too pushy on the first date. Oh, did I mention that you'd have to become a full-time player ?

I would say getting the numbers is easy. The hard part is convincing her to meet you afterwards or alternatively, isolating her (if we're talking about a same day/night lay).

After that, there's no reason why you shouldn't have a 90 to 100% date to lay success rate. If a girl knows that you are interested in her and she shows up at the bar (not the fucking restaurant since you're not another sucker who wants to feed her) for a date, then she wants to be fucked. Same thing if she decides to leave her group of friends during the night. You just have to play it cool.

Now you'd think by looking at those stats most guys will die alone Smile However, those stats apply when approaching girls that are 7+

You can increase your changes by lowering your standards which is what the majority of guys are doing.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2019 11:19 AM by Pointer.)
07-01-2019 11:10 AM
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JuiceDC Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Does everyone get ghosted on, flaked on, rejected, etc?
Ghosting happens. Often. The best course of action? Go meet some more
07-01-2019 12:24 PM
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