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Discussion Regarding Love
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Discussion Regarding Love
(07-08-2019 08:51 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  It's probably your loneliness that has caused these feelings to bubble.

An interesting point you bring up though is regarding touch. The feminist movement wants to portray all touching between the sexes as inappropriate and sexual. In a way they are correct. However, we must acknowledge that the majority of people crave being touched... it's required for their emotional well being. My belief is that context and body placement are key to acceptability and should probably warrant a thread of its own.

The infatuation feelings are typically caused by idealization of your female subject. A more cynical view of her will likely remove these feelings like taking a pin to a balloon.

I'm not so sure if infatuation causes idealization or the other way around. I try the hardest to keep my emotions under control and stick to my AWALT mindset. It works most of the time, but I never succeeded at "removing feelings", they tend to linger around.

In fact I wasn't planning to get back into dating just yet. I just started building up a new life this year and I still have a long way to go, before deciding if I actually allow a woman into it. She wasn't the first attractive girl I met since spring, but it still hit me like a brick on first sight. It doesn't help, that she seems to be somewhat into me as well: She approached me and then masterfully created the circumstances to be around me at least weekly, so she can constantly IOI and test me since then. But it's only a matter of time until I successfully killed off all attraction. She doesn't know how much I like her.

Regarding the topic of touch: I already knew that she is okay with it. That's pretty obvious, when a girl was comfortable with sitting next to you at a distance of roughly zero inches and the touch barrier was already broken. The context was appropriate as well, but I didn't manage proper body placement this time, reverted into an ancient walking on eggs mindset, before finally getting myself under control on the way home and got in some natural caressing last minute.

I was unprepared and the time frame was too tight.
07-08-2019 12:58 PM
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Donfitz007 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Discussion Regarding Love
Question. Is there a thing as love without compromise? For example, you love a person but u want to do something in life (rock climb or something) it isn’t a passion just something you sorta like to do that often hurts you but u still love doing it. But your spouse loves you too and she’s terrified of your rock climbing (because she lost a loved one in a freak accident). And she wants you to stop.

To you it’s an attack (albeit minor) on your freedom. To her it scares her. Losing it wouldn’t be that bad to you but u would feel your freedom taken away slightly. To her it’s devastating especially since it’s the only thing she ever asked of you.

Is it still love if that person doesn’t give up rock climbing.
07-09-2019 03:29 AM
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EndsExpect Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Discussion Regarding Love
(07-08-2019 12:58 PM)wwtl Wrote:  I'm not so sure if infatuation causes idealization or the other way around. I try the hardest to keep my emotions under control and stick to my AWALT mindset. It works most of the time, but I never succeeded at "removing feelings", they tend to linger around.
In fact I wasn't planning to get back into dating just yet. I just started building up a new life this year and I still have a long way to go, before deciding if I actually allow a woman into it. She wasn't the first attractive girl I met since spring, but it still hit me like a brick on first sight. It doesn't help, that she seems to be somewhat into me as well: She approached me and then masterfully created the circumstances to be around me at least weekly, so she can constantly IOI and test me since then. But it's only a matter of time until I successfully killed off all attraction. She doesn't know how much I like her.
Regarding the topic of touch: I already knew that she is okay with it. That's pretty obvious, when a girl was comfortable with sitting next to you at a distance of roughly zero inches and the touch barrier was already broken. The context was appropriate as well, but I didn't manage proper body placement this time, reverted into an ancient walking on eggs mindset, before finally getting myself under control on the way home and got in some natural caressing last minute.
I was unprepared and the time frame was too tight.

My belief is that idealization causes infatuation. I don't get infatuated anymore because I'm fundamentally unable to idealize at this point. Your goal should never be to remove feelings. Allow your emotions to come, feel them, but never let them control you.

My advice to you is this... if you wait until your life is "ready" for a woman, then it will never be ready. You should use game to unlock your natural self, because it sounds like you are in your own head a bit too much. When you deal with women it shouldn't require thought... it should just flow. If you make mistakes it doesn't matter... because although you feel the fear and anxiety you don't let them control you.
07-09-2019 10:49 AM
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Bobby.mo Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Discussion Regarding Love
If anyone can help me understand this: I lived in midtown Sacramento a few years back and had my own social scene with a handful of attractive females. To make a long story short, I would only see these girls at social functions - i.e. bars and after parties at houses, apts, lofts, etc. For some reason while at the bar or after function these females would want to go into the extremes of marriage and would even mention having kids. I would deny this humorously saying things like I have ethics etc...

However, while not at a bar or afterparty it was like I didnt exist. Then the next function would come around and the process would repeat itself. Can anyone help me understand this logic? Has anyone experienced this?
07-09-2019 11:01 AM
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EndsExpect Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Discussion Regarding Love
(07-09-2019 03:29 AM)Donfitz007 Wrote:  Question. Is there a thing as love without compromise? For example, you love a person but u want to do something in life (rock climb or something) it isn’t a passion just something you sorta like to do that often hurts you but u still love doing it. But your spouse loves you too and she’s terrified of your rock climbing (because she lost a loved one in a freak accident). And she wants you to stop.
To you it’s an attack (albeit minor) on your freedom. To her it scares her. Losing it wouldn’t be that bad to you but u would feel your freedom taken away slightly. To her it’s devastating especially since it’s the only thing she ever asked of you.
Is it still love if that person doesn’t give up rock climbing.

Lol... this sounds personal. I'm older and I've tried relationships both ways, and here is my answer:

Love Without Compromise!

A woman that loves you must trust you, and not attempt to cage you. She may have lost a friend, but that doesn't mean she is going to lose you. She has to trust that you know what you are doing and that you are passionate about this! That said... if you love her in return, you should do your best to get her involved in your life and in the things you find fun.

Also, I'm going to kind of dive into a separate topic here. A lot of women, especially younger ones have this mindset that will get the guy and then change him into what they want. However, the more pliable you are to their desires... the less attractive you become. You have to choose between short term satisfaction and long term attraction. Many things in life work like this. You can eat Cake every day all day and in the short term it's very satisfying, but eventually it will wreck your health and make you fat.

The most effective in my opinion is to occasionally let her win small battles, but not by force... instead by pleading or politely requesting. I try to teach her that only by being feminine will I give her what she wants.
07-09-2019 11:14 AM
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Discussion Regarding Love
(07-09-2019 10:49 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  My belief is that idealization causes infatuation. I don't get infatuated anymore because I'm fundamentally unable to idealize at this point. Your goal should never be to remove feelings. Allow your emotions to come, feel them, but never let them control you.

My advice to you is this... if you wait until your life is "ready" for a woman, then it will never be ready. You should use game to unlock your natural self, because it sounds like you are in your own head a bit too much. When you deal with women it shouldn't require thought... it should just flow. If you make mistakes it doesn't matter... because although you feel the fear and anxiety you don't let them control you.

That's great for you. My last infatuation took a quarter second to emerge, there was not much time for conscious idealization. Be glad that you never experienced that. Beside that I don't idealize anymore as well. You do with first infatuation as a teenager, maybe with your second one, but third to fifth one sees through the emotions. I think have them well under control, they don't affect my reasoning.

My natural self is a story on its own. Raised by females only it's essentially bullshit unable to deal with anything, which I need to get rid of. In fact anything which makes me accomplish things in life is learned behavior after growing up. This is not limited to the topic of game. If I fall back into natural behavior, I even fail my driving test.

For example calling out a woman on her shit and setting boundaries goes against every grain of my "natural self". But I learned how to do it and I know I have to do it, even if it causes really bad internal emotions, because otherwise one ends up as a punchbag - We all know how this works. There is nothing to "unlock" making this work naturally, it's just about building habits, so you don't have to go consciously through the process every time, when she starts testing.

The problem I now learned about is that these strong emotions interfere with learned habits, making it quite a challenge.

In fact I should be glad that God threw me some practice set to work on without anything to lose (not even money). I think the girl isn't going to care much about my fails and might see something in me, which I am not. You know: idealization. I think the latter is the only reason why she still likes being around me, any less infatuated girl would have long abandoned ship.
07-09-2019 11:45 AM
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Bobby.mo Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Discussion Regarding Love
Can someone help me out with this one??? PLEAAAASE!!!! ( see my previous post above)

Thanks!!!!!
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2019 01:00 PM by Bobby.mo.)
07-16-2019 12:59 PM
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Discussion Regarding Love
(07-08-2019 12:58 PM)wwtl Wrote:  In fact I wasn't planning to get back into dating just yet. I just started building up a new life this year and I still have a long way to go, before deciding if I actually allow a woman into it. She wasn't the first attractive girl I met since spring, but it still hit me like a brick on first sight. It doesn't help, that she seems to be somewhat into me as well: Shde approached me and then masterfully created the circumstances to be around me at least weekly, so she can constantly IOI and test me since then. But it's only a matter of time until I successfully killed off all attraction. She doesn't know how much I like her.

Some new observations I made last weekend (related to the topic of this thread):

Small church group setting. Girl and me shared a wide couch for about two hours, I was relaxed and took my space and was mirroring her positioning - moving away when she did and vice versa. As usual when being near me the girl was going through carefully rearranging her entire haircut and inspecting her unpainted nails the whole time, but this time she was also taking off her ring multiple times placing it on the table each time.

After supper she withdrew from the group stating not feeling well. I followed up with a few minutes delay and managed to cheer her up. She became quite talkative while being alone with me before returning to the group.

Next day at worship I placed myself on the seat next to her (not without asking for permission). When the preacher started talking about infatuation, love and charity, she sighed and commented on it, providing a cue. After that she started suffering, leaving her place and returning multiple times. When I met her again after service following the meet & greet she had completely ruined her haircut. Wasn't too great seeing her like that, but she wasn't losing a word about what bothered her, instead she showed me some cat photo she made on her phone and incidentally mentioned her BF.

Whatever she is going through (can only guess why), the l-word seems to be a hell of a drug. I was fine the whole weekend.
07-18-2019 09:28 AM
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EndsExpect Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Discussion Regarding Love
(07-16-2019 12:59 PM)Bobby.mo Wrote:  Can someone help me out with this one??? PLEAAAASE!!!! ( see my previous post above)

Thanks!!!!!

I don't actually understand the problem. Women will talk about marriage and kids with you in a social setting, but otherwise not? Which women? I think you need to be more detailed.

Look, I got married young and this weird thing happened. The moment I put on a wedding ring women who ignored me before, suddenly flirted with me all the time.

I put some serious thought into it and then finally asked one of the girls. She blew my mind by telling me that she was flirting with me for fun and attention (not her words), and that she chose me because I was safe. She felt like I wasnt going to try to fuck her later. But the truth is that a lot of times they start flirting and then start to feel more attracted to you... they fall into their own trap.

But as to your situation... without more details... who the fuck knows?
07-18-2019 04:11 PM
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Discussion Regarding Love
This evening I was on a hike and decided to try an experiment to see if I actually can get some text game going after four days of radio silence, as my love interest is on vacation and we won't meet again for another week.

So I shot a random boring nature photo and posted it as messenger status without any description. The girl commented on it within the hour with an open question. I guess I have her attention.

This weekend I plan to visit a motorcycle shop anyway, that might also be useful as much more interesting hook to chat about. She already knows I want to get into motorbiking since quite some time, I recently decided to pull it off, and kinda holds me accountable to my own goals now. The joke is that I intentionally told her about that last month just to get myself off procrastinating it further - so I brought this on myself.
07-18-2019 06:42 PM
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EndsExpect Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Discussion Regarding Love
(07-18-2019 06:42 PM)wwtl Wrote:  This evening I was on a hike and decided to try an experiment to see if I actually can get some text game going after four days of radio silence, as my love interest is on vacation and we won't meet again for another week.
So I shot a random boring nature photo and posted it as messenger status without any description. The girl commented on it within the hour with an open question. I guess I have her attention.
This weekend I plan to visit a motorcycle shop anyway, that might also be useful as much more interesting hook to chat about. She already knows I want to get into motorbiking since quite some time, I recently decided to pull it off, and kinda holds me accountable to my own goals now. The joke is that I intentionally told her about that last month just to get myself off procrastinating it further - so I brought this on myself.

Is this the girl with the BF?

I would get her talking about her childhood and family. That will teach you a lot about her. Emphasize any commonalities. I just think before you get all wrapped up in this girl you should take the time to know her inside and out. Start a thread and we can kind of analyze this girl and break down a strategy for you.

This forum has had a silent debate for years over screening vs converting. Screeners put very little effort into any individual girl and they go through a lot to find one or two who want sex and respond to the man's approach. Converting requires an immense amount of skill and it's much more targeted. From my reading WIA is the best I've ever seen at converting. Read his stuff. He is a thinking man and he gets into a woman's head like very few others.

But if you want my opinion... if this girl already has a BF... and she is flirting with you... then she isn't a long term prospect.
Yesterday 12:05 PM
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wwtl
wwtl Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Discussion Regarding Love
(Yesterday 12:05 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  Is this the girl with the BF?

I would get her talking about her childhood and family. That will teach you a lot about her. Emphasize any commonalities. I just think before you get all wrapped up in this girl you should take the time to know her inside and out. Start a thread and we can kind of analyze this girl and break down a strategy for you.

This forum has had a silent debate for years over screening vs converting. Screeners put very little effort into any individual girl and they go through a lot to find one or two who want sex and respond to the man's approach. Converting requires an immense amount of skill and it's much more targeted. From my reading WIA is the best I've ever seen at converting. Read his stuff. He is a thinking man and he gets into a woman's head like very few others.

But if you want my opinion... if this girl already has a BF... and she is flirting with you... then she isn't a long term prospect.

From what I figure by reading her is that the girl is really confused by her emotional turmoil. Maybe the non-Christian BF was just for (social) validation and her ovaries were still on the hunt, then became attached to the next biologically suitable male. I'm not morally degenerate enough to immediately exploit that.

Regarding screening vs. converting: I didn't even start screening girls. This girl just ended up randomly popping into my life. As she is much younger than me and even more inexperienced I decided to stay back for the meantime and let things develop at their own pace. I would still appreciate some pointers on WIA's stuff.
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 01:37 PM by wwtl.)
Yesterday 01:12 PM
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