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Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
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Thomas Jackson Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Yea tons of smoke shows in pharma sales - but they almost seem like high class escorts for the Drs. Only you can judge the girls character though.
07-06-2019 06:43 AM
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Dilated Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
You have to make a decision- be fantastic with your finances or get married. You can’t have both. Women handle finances like alligators fly- they don’t. They can’t.

They aren’t designed for that.

I have grappled with this situation for years. I have the ability, skills, knowledge, and drive to ultimately do something financially that very few people will be able to do and I’ve had a grand total of zero women be interested in it. In fact, they have all given me a very hard time about it.

It’s ruined a lot of relationships.

Women would rather have something guaranteed, average now (granite counter tops) over an opportunity to do something amazing later (retire at 39).

If you want to get married I agree with the guys that say keep the finances/accounts separate. Give her the choice- ‘we can be rich or we cannot be. You get to choose. I’d rather be rich, personally. But, if you don’t want to be, then OK. I’d rather be poor than fight with you about finances’.

Now the ball is in her court. She gets to decide how rich you’ll be as a couple. Now you get a chance to see if she’ll let you lead.

What she doesn’t know is you’re personally going to be rich either way. It’s just a matter of how rich. Because you’re going to be doing your own thing with your finances.

And the best test- tell her you need a prenup. Because it protects both parties. Then watch the ensuing wailing and screaming.

Imagine someone getting pissed at you because you won’t allow them to abuse you financially.
07-06-2019 07:32 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
RUN AWAY DUDE
07-06-2019 07:32 AM
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lunchmoney Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
(07-05-2019 11:09 PM)RawGod Wrote:  Huge debt, go-getting aggressive career, no financial sense, friends are all hot women who have locked down beta simps, late 20s.

Run my friend. Avoid women like this like the plague. She doesn't have the character of s good wife or mother, she wants status, consumerism and a chained man to foot the bill.

You want her to be flying around from coast to coast selling stuff for corporations while her young children are in daycare? That is evil.

This sums up this thread.
07-06-2019 08:00 AM
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redbeard Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Everyone's spelled out the debt issue pretty well but I'd like to add something about "wife material."

OP mentions that

(07-05-2019 07:05 AM)treypound Wrote:  Body is amazing, can cook, and has aspirations of starting a family/marriage before 30.

Read that again: aspirations...NOT burning desire

If she was really serious about getting married, she would NOT have six figures in debt, and she would NOT be 27 and still looking.

Actions speak louder than words.

Many women approaching the wall will put on the face that they're "trad" and want nothing more than family & kids...but look at their past and see if it lines up.

Does she have tattoos? Does she have a high notch count? Did she spend her 20s getting banged out by playboys, or did she have a serious boyfriend for years? What does she think about divorce?

Don't let these broads dupe you.

1 Year NoFap Veteran --- No Days Off in Trump's America
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2019 08:12 AM by redbeard.)
07-06-2019 08:11 AM
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ISR92 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
The dating scene must be truly fucked over there if you're even considering starting something with such a woman.

She's looking for a beta male to carry her and her debt, and she'll find one too.

Stop giving women like this chances. Let them pay for their foolishness.
07-06-2019 10:13 AM
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Captain Gh Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Every relationships are a challenge... and in this one the financial aspects seems to be it! I would say move ahead... but thread very very carefully my friend. My style is the direct style... and I would straight up tell her in order to move ahead in the relationship... that we would need to have a plan to tackle that debt. It WILL be hard... but as long as I would see some efforts from her part... with 70 - 80% success... I'd know we'd be moving in the right direction.


Whatever your style is... I would have a similar strategy. To the posters who say bail right away... it's 2019. What Hot Bitch will come ready out the Box to be a Super Elite Woman! These type of Bitches have to be trained by us nowdays! Only Bail if you know you're currently not strong enough to handle pushback from these bitches! Nothing wrong in admitting that you don't have it in you YET to control frame 95% of the time with a 8+ Babe in 2019.


You can't be a Beta Cuck... if you're not in a serious relationship my Man! Bail if you can't stand the Heat in the kitchen. Then Date Date Date til you can maintain frame 95% of the time... and it's as easy as Breathing
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2019 10:59 AM by Captain Gh.)
07-06-2019 10:56 AM
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lunchmoney Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
What no one has asked is how long have you been dating for her to be comfortable enough to talk about a family? It sounded like OP said just a few months. That is a red flag to me, unless she smells his money/assets and sees him as a payday.
07-06-2019 01:31 PM
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SilentOne Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
(07-06-2019 08:11 AM)redbeard Wrote:  If she was really serious about getting married, she would NOT have six figures in debt, and she would NOT be 27 and still looking.

Actions speak louder than words.

Many women approaching the wall will put on the face that they're "trad" and want nothing more than family & kids...but look at their past and see if it lines up.

Does she have tattoos? Does she have a high notch count? Did she spend her 20s getting banged out by playboys, or did she have a serious boyfriend for years? What does she think about divorce?

Don't let these broads dupe you.

This is spot on. Although what she thinks about divorce is irrelevant. Even for the few that are genuine about it at that moment. She can change that thought process swiftly and most men find that out the hard way. Don't be that guy.
07-06-2019 06:37 PM
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Deepdiver Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
After reading through the entire thread - I would suggest meeting with a CFA who has true expertise in putting together formal Financial Plans by a CFA Certified Financial Analyst... AG Edwards or Ameriprise or Google the ones with the best performance and BBB ratings. Point is it has to be someone who listens to you and who you can trust. This is a financial roadmap in a binder customized for you.

First I would look around and find one who can put a plan together that works for YOU only first.

This way you can judge if you and your New CFA are on the same page.

Now after you get to mull over his plan just tell him you have a problem...

And mention the High Earning profligate spending Pharma sales chick you might want to lock down but you need help to get her on the same page and in a complimentary coordinated plan with you that achieves the goals you know you need to hit with both yourself and new wife... A good CFA will be more than helpful here.

Women rarely learn personal finance management unless they are a desperate single mom trying to avoid eviction and then it is too late.

Tell her this is important to you and you need her to actively participate. Her attitude and performance reaching the agreed to goals will tell you if you can even work together. If she balks or worse refuses she basically demoted herself from prospective wife material to FWB with no plan for the future - then go find a replacement who will work and plan towards common mutual beneficial goals.

Often a spendthrift just needs to be locked into a plan where they pay themselves first - that is SAVE for their futures towards common agreed upon goals. Think a payroll deduction model she does not get to play with first like Las Vegas Mad Money. She must agree to plan for the future and work the plan.

Then have the CFA planner have her sign her portion of the plan and agree to stick to it with reasonable and DOABLE goals like paying off her Student Loans and consumer debts then setting aside funds for your common household expenses and new home together and your eventual children's future college educations so they do not become debt slaves like her.

This is like a waltz where the Man leads and his woman follows - cannot be any other way...

If she hits her 1 and 2 year goals you can surprise her with an engagement ring and if she hits her year 3,4, and 5 goals you can surprise her with a wedding planner and once she pays off the Student Loans and CC and Car debt and is actually saving a portion of that $100K per year pharma sales salary you can now afford to get married without a debt bombing free-spending wife screwing up the family finances BECAUSE you like the MAN you are decided to take the lead - and - led his women to where she needs to be for her own good. Of course, before the Wedding engagement, a solid prenup is a natural follow on to the customized financial plan she not only signed but actually proved to YOU her man that she would follow.

You lead and she follows as it is God's way. Anything else is unnatural and an abomination.

Deepdiver the OG Hunter-Killer ... NBF - Nuke Boats Forever!
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(This post was last modified: 07-06-2019 07:24 PM by Deepdiver.)
07-06-2019 07:22 PM
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MichaelWitcoff Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
If having a nice body and being a good cook outweighs the fact that she's a financial black hole, then by all means go for it. Just don't come back complaining when you become as broke as she is.

Return Of Kings contributor and best-selling author of "On The Mason And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2019 07:30 PM by MichaelWitcoff.)
07-06-2019 07:29 PM
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Swordfish1010 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Horrible idea. I hope this forum hasn't fallen so far that people think this is actually a good idea. She won't be able to pair bond with your kids.
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2019 07:47 PM by Swordfish1010.)
07-06-2019 07:47 PM
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Swordfish1010 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Also I'm probably doxing myself but as a fellow ASU business grad the only girls that are going to go into that profession were huge whores in college
07-06-2019 07:52 PM
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redbeard Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
(07-06-2019 07:22 PM)Deepdiver Wrote:  After reading through the entire thread - I would suggest meeting with a CFA who has true expertise in putting together formal Financial Plans by a CFA Certified Financial Analyst... AG Edwards or Ameriprise or Google the ones with the best performance and BBB ratings. Point is it has to be someone who listens to you and who you can trust. This is a financial roadmap in a binder customized for you.

First I would look around and find one who can put a plan together that works for YOU only first.

This way you can judge if you and your New CFA are on the same page.

Now after you get to mull over his plan just tell him you have a problem...

And mention the High Earning profligate spending Pharma sales chick you might want to lock down but you need help to get her on the same page and in a complimentary coordinated plan with you that achieves the goals you know you need to hit with both yourself and new wife... A good CFA will be more than helpful here.

Women rarely learn personal finance management unless they are a desperate single mom trying to avoid eviction and then it is too late.

Tell her this is important to you and you need her to actively participate. Her attitude and performance reaching the agreed to goals will tell you if you can even work together. If she balks or worse refuses she basically demoted herself from prospective wife material to FWB with no plan for the future - then go find a replacement who will work and plan towards common mutual beneficial goals.

Often a spendthrift just needs to be locked into a plan where they pay themselves first - that is SAVE for their futures towards common agreed upon goals. Think a payroll deduction model she does not get to play with first like Las Vegas Mad Money. She must agree to plan for the future and work the plan.

Then have the CFA planner have her sign her portion of the plan and agree to stick to it with reasonable and DOABLE goals like paying off her Student Loans and consumer debts then setting aside funds for your common household expenses and new home together and your eventual children's future college educations so they do not become debt slaves like her.

This is like a waltz where the Man leads and his woman follows - cannot be any other way...

If she hits her 1 and 2 year goals you can surprise her with an engagement ring and if she hits her year 3,4, and 5 goals you can surprise her with a wedding planner and once she pays off the Student Loans and CC and Car debt and is actually saving a portion of that $100K per year pharma sales salary you can now afford to get married without a debt bombing free-spending wife screwing up the family finances BECAUSE you like the MAN you are decided to take the lead - and - led his women to where she needs to be for her own good. Of course, before the Wedding engagement, a solid prenup is a natural follow on to the customized financial plan she not only signed but actually proved to YOU her man that she would follow.

You lead and she follows as it is God's way. Anything else is unnatural and an abomination.

...

Lolwtf

...or you could dump the chick. Simple!

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07-06-2019 08:15 PM
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Georgepithyou Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Find a new girlfriend, plenty of women want to be housewoves that dont have such a huge debt
07-06-2019 10:25 PM
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RWIsrael Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
What does her father do?

If you must marry her, ask for a dowry.
07-07-2019 01:57 AM
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treypound Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Thanks all for the varying views and advice. To provide an update and give additional clarity:

We have had a few discussions in-depth on this topic, and I have come to the conclusion that while I am enjoying her company in the present, I would find myself miserable in the future. Her spending habits on frivolous retail purchases and pampering (spas/massage etc) is excessive. When we began dating, she somewhat hid some of her behavior, but I also had not been exposed to her social circle until a couple months in. Once I had a chance to see how her friends operate and think, I could see we would have issues.

Re: her family, she comes from a working class family in which in her mother worked as a teacher until she and her sister came around. Her mother then stayed at home and took care of the house/kids while her father ran an auto repair shop in her hometown. I have met her parents, and they seem like decent people. It wasn't until she went away to college that she connected with her clique of girls that seem to have changed her views on life.

I honestly don't see her wanting to resume her career after having a child. Again, I am not at a point where I feel she's the only fish in the sea, however some of the feedback here has reinforced my gut instinct.
07-07-2019 08:40 AM
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robreke Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
I just noticed your (above ) correct conclusion about her right as I was about to post the following. But since I typed it up, I'll add my 2 cents just to reinforce:

Move on man.

$ 120,000 in debt and you're taking on multiple problems with just that: 1.) The financial burden and debt itself. Once you're in a relationship or (God Forbid) marriage, she'll expect you to white knight-up and pay it for her. 2.) $ 120k in debt, unless it was for an advanced degree for which she now has a six figure income, and is going to pay it off, is indicative of character problems. It means she is a consumerist / shallow/ spends to put out an image because she cares what everyone thinks of her and/or (probably) is just a very unwise and undisciplined person. Who wants that as an LTR?

Also, why do an "LDR' You can't have a relationship with someone who doesn't live near you. LDRs are a myth that rarely, if ever , work. To have a relationship with someone, they need to be present and actually in your company.

I say take the advice of the other senior members here and move on. If she wants to come visit you on her own dime for a weekend of sex, fine. If not, it's a double negative (The debt and LDR aspects)

- One planet orbiting a star. Billions of stars in the galaxy. Billions of galaxies in the universe. Approach.

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(This post was last modified: 07-07-2019 10:56 AM by robreke.)
07-07-2019 10:54 AM
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Barron Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Man I love stories like these.
As soon as I'm able to purchase real estate I'm going to do so in an area where careerist girls will pay any price I set for the dirtiest studio, including raising the rent every year as once they move into a place they can barely afford, they start nesting and will refuse to leave because in their mind it's "home".

I just got fired up, OP thanks for this

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07-07-2019 10:57 AM
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Bienvenuto Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
(07-07-2019 08:40 AM)treypound Wrote:  Thanks all for the varying views and advice. To provide an update and give additional clarity:

We have had a few discussions in-depth on this topic, and I have come to the conclusion that while I am enjoying her company in the present, I would find myself miserable in the future. Her spending habits on frivolous retail purchases and pampering (spas/massage etc) is excessive. When we began dating, she somewhat hid some of her behavior, but I also had not been exposed to her social circle until a couple months in. Once I had a chance to see how her friends operate and think, I could see we would have issues.

Re: her family, she comes from a working class family in which in her mother worked as a teacher until she and her sister came around. Her mother then stayed at home and took care of the house/kids while her father ran an auto repair shop in her hometown. I have met her parents, and they seem like decent people. It wasn't until she went away to college that she connected with her clique of girls that seem to have changed her views on life.

I honestly don't see her wanting to resume her career after having a child. Again, I am not at a point where I feel she's the only fish in the sea, however some of the feedback here has reinforced my gut instinct.

Good call OP.

It was scarcity thinking .. happens to all of us.

This chick would have ground you down, if not outwardly in terms of who is in charge then inwardly.. in terms of the thrill would have vanished and she would have become a ball and chain.
07-07-2019 11:54 AM
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Polyhistor Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Actually, I made a comparable mistake a few years ago. This specific girl was attractive and had a kind personality, however, she was not able to keep a regular job and had unrealistic expectations concerning a future business she might be able to start. Furthermore, she could not handle money, including generous gifts for family and friends as soon as she had any income. As can be expected, she was deep in debt, with hundreds of unrealistic, but not workable plans to pay it off.
At the beginning of our relationship, I made it crystal clear that our finances would be separate. It worked for some time, but as our relationship developed, she considered my lacking readiness to pay for her mess increasingly as a proof of insufficient affection. I would have been able to support her, and was even ready to do so, provided that she would (1) get a job and not loose it within a few weeks, (2) restrict her spendings. As one might have expected, she emphatically rejected such an intrusion into her affairs and our relationship ended soon after.
Thus, I think the relevance of a similar approach towards financial affairs cannot be overestimated.
07-09-2019 07:10 AM
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MyFabolousLife Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
(07-05-2019 01:54 PM)lunchmoney Wrote:  
(07-05-2019 11:23 AM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  She has a job, make it clear you aren't going to pay her debt. Pharma sales pays pretty well...

The way I read it if she is bringing up starting a family, she won't want to get back to work after popping out babies.

This.

I have a family member and multiple co-workers going through this right now. Once women have kids its amazing how quickly their attitudes and thinking 'shift' about returning to work. And it's a snowball effect that can really spiral out of control quickly.

For example, I have a colleague that is in his mid-30s and has a 1.5 year old son. His wife originally agreed to return to work once the child started preschool ... but then, mysteriously she got 'accidentally' pregnant with their second child. Now her attitude has completely shifted almost over night! She says she has no plans to return to work anytime soon (if ever!). On top of that, pumkin wants her husband to pay off her student loans/credit card debt and now that they are going to be a family of four she also wants a new car and bigger house!
07-09-2019 02:12 PM
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BlastbeatCasanova Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
My buddy married a girl who had $20K in CC debt and I thought that was a lot. Also knew a college cheerleader who was 120K in the hole for a stupid degree at an out of state school. They’re both hot so they’ll probably be able to find a guy with money to take care of it (like my buddy that I mentioned, for example. He is smart and very wealthy but not exactly a physical specimen, his wife is way out of his league so I reckon it worked out for both people involved).

This kind of thing is indicative of a problem that will only grow bigger, I believe that both parties have to be on the same page in terms of financial values for a long term partnership to work. If it’s less than 10K and she is open to change I’d give it a chance bc sometimes shit happens and people make dumb decisions when they’re young but I think you’re better off cutting this one loose
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2019 02:18 PM by BlastbeatCasanova.)
07-09-2019 02:18 PM
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Robert High Hawk Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
I echo many of sentiments here, but still: Why not do a simple 3-6 month trial period? Simply just be up front about your concern, tell her that if she's willing to balance her budget for a few month period, you can take things to next level, if she's wiling to let you get all deep in her finances and spending for that time. If she refuses even after you calmly and sincerely give her you concerns and reasons why, then it's an easy decision to bounce. If she does go a long, you should totally try to positively shape her. It's a small chance but in my opinion worth trying.
07-09-2019 02:19 PM
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MyFabolousLife Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
(07-06-2019 06:37 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  
(07-06-2019 08:11 AM)redbeard Wrote:  

This is spot on. Although what she thinks about divorce is irrelevant. Even for the few that are genuine about it at that moment. She can change that thought process swiftly and most men find that out the hard way. Don't be that guy.

Exactly SilentOne. Women's shifts in attitudes and thinking AFTER they've essentially "got you" locked in with marriage and children is not emphasized nearly enough on this forum.
07-09-2019 02:24 PM
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