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Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
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treypound Offline
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Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
It's been a while since I have been able to log on, and there appears to be some changes re: the forum topics. Hopefully this isn't in violation. Over the past couple months, I have been spending time with a woman I met shortly after moving to Houston. 27 y/o with a degree in business from Arizona State who for the past year has been working in pharma sales and killing it. Body is amazing, can cook, and has aspirations of starting a family/marriage before 30.

All that said, there are two issues I see.

1. She has over $120,000 in debt to her name, and no defined plan to pay it off. Most of that (80-85) is student loan debt, however it doesn't even phase her. The rest is a mix of car and credit card debt. She makes decent money on her job (guessing between 100k gross), but that goes to the second issue...

2. She spends as soon as she makes it. I have always been conservative financially, so when I inherited an unexpected windfall of funds, I already had a plan to execute. I purchased my condo in cash, paid off the little consumer debt I had (20k), and have the rest invested in mutual funds/real estate/little in crypto. When it comes to finances, she either has no interest or is naive' assuming perhaps her future husband will pay it off.

What is everyone's thoughts on considering marrying a woman with debt or spending habits that do not align with yours?
07-05-2019 07:05 AM
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Montrose Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
I say marry her. My wife never worked and never had any income. I have been financially supporting her for 20 years, including paying for her degree. But she gave me many kids and raised them very well. Women are expensive whatever way you put it. Try to get her to pay half the rent/mortgage and you're in the money.

Also note that in Texas you're not liable for pre-marriage debt (but you will be liable for future debt if no prenup)
07-05-2019 07:25 AM
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Chetthebaker Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Bad news, stay away unless you’re willing to pay for her. You could have a discussion with her about it to see what her attitude is but the proof is already there.

Some people just think like poor people when it comes to money and have no concept of saving, investing, or being financially educated. Men and women, but especially women. They’ll have no idea how to hold on to money and will always have a dollar burning a hole in their pocket. You’ll wonder where the fuck it goes. Simultaneous multiple gym/yoga memberships, subscriptions to stupid crap, eating out/booze...

I had an ex that wanted to pay hundreds of dollars to Amex one time to buy extra points on her credit card in order to be eligible (yes, just eligible) for airline upgrades and some other bullshit. My head nearly fucking exploded as I listed all the things she could do with that money instead as we were living together and I was unwisely covering our expenses.
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2019 07:30 AM by Chetthebaker.)
07-05-2019 07:28 AM
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redbeard Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
A woman with *debt* isn't terrible. A lot of girls rack up a few g's in credit card debt without even realizing it. They don't understand the power of compounding interest so they just let it build up.

Thankfully good women are coachable. The silver lining is that if she listens to you and starts implementing changes in her spending habits, that's a gold star. You want a woman who will mold to you and follow your lead.

However...$120k is atrocious. Unless you win the lottery that debt load will become yours if you marry her. Are you ready to shell out $1k (or more?) a month to pay off someone else's debt?

Combine that with the fact that she's about to hit the wall, and that you're possibly doing long distance (based on the title?), you might want to reconsider.

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07-05-2019 07:33 AM
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Montrose Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
(07-05-2019 07:33 AM)redbeard Wrote:  However...$120k is atrocious. Unless you win the lottery that debt load will become yours if you marry her. Are you ready to shell out $1k (or more?) a month to pay off someone else's debt?

No, the debt does not become his. Pre-marriage debt remains with the spouse who took it.
And no, it's not 1k per month. At today's interest rates, it's more like $100 per month
07-05-2019 07:39 AM
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melikey Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Stay away, I've been doing business/investing for many years. I've noticed that the people that are once in debt rarely gets out of it and when they do they still manage to end up back there somehow. It's just a endless loop. I think you should be aiming higher, I'm sure you can find a girl that has the qualities you want but isnt in 6 fig debt.
07-05-2019 07:58 AM
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treypound Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Thanks everyone for the feedback already. To clarify, I meant LTR not LDR. I am not and would not entertain a long distance relationship.

Back to the topic - My primary concern is when I have broached the topic of finances/money, I get a sense from her that "we" can just outearn our mistakes, which goes against my beliefs of avoiding the mistakes you can truly avoid (like financing a car, using a credit card for frivolous purchases, etc).

Her friends are all smoke shows, but they also are the type that spend hundreds of dollars unconsciously at the mall on a random weekday because they can. Three of them are married to cuckold betas who let them do what they please while they are out working all day. Unlike her friends, my gf aspires to have a family (she has mentioned it more since her birthday last month), and because of that I have been mentally checking the boxes in relation to our compatibility on things that matter.
07-05-2019 08:16 AM
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Baphomet Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Since you mentioned that she is interested in starting a family soon, and you want to be in an LTR with her, presumably to make that family:

Among the pillars of a successful marriage are:

1. Agreement on marital responsibilities.
2. Agreement on rearing children. (How many, discipline, etc)
3. Agreement on Faith.
4. Agreement on Finances.

Your position on finances is 100% incompatible with hers and will result in very expensive consequences.

I understand that she is very attractive and that fact often adds some sugar to the poison that is financial indifference. But a poison it is, and sooner or later no amount of sugar will be able to cover the effects.

Brother Montrose may be correct about the law in Texas and pre-marital debt. However, the reality of a marriage is that the debt will become BOTH your debts. And since she does not seem to care about it, she will have no problems increasing that debt by whatever suits her fancy.

Can you live with that? Happily?

I'd advise having a much more serious discussion with her about her debts and her plans for getting rid of them. If you cannot have that sort of discussion with her, then there is no common ground for a marriage, and certainly not for children.

LTR only long enough to determine if she can absolve herself of her senselessly nonchalant attitude towards finances.
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2019 09:27 AM by Baphomet.)
07-05-2019 09:03 AM
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BasketBounce Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Her looks will wear off one day.

Her spending habits probably won’t change.

If you try to change her, she may even come to resent you.

She has to want to change her spending habits for herself.

Listen to Baphomet.

Find an attractive woman whose financial priorities align with yours. Trust me, they’re out there.

Don’t let HER biological clock determine when YOU have children, my friend.
07-05-2019 09:26 AM
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mr_ks Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
That level of debt is not out of the norm in America today so not sure I would blame the woman necessarily. I think you should have a discussion about money with her and see if she agrees to your point of view. It seems you are better at managing finances than she is and as part of a marriage you should be able to expect her to defer to your decision making and to some extent allow you to control the finances.

You should explain to her that you are looking for a good woman that will leave her family and children in the best possible circumstances, and you are not willing to allow financial problems into your family.
07-05-2019 09:57 AM
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Cortés Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
(07-05-2019 07:39 AM)Montrose Wrote:  
(07-05-2019 07:33 AM)redbeard Wrote:  However...$120k is atrocious. Unless you win the lottery that debt load will become yours if you marry her. Are you ready to shell out $1k (or more?) a month to pay off someone else's debt?

No, the debt does not become his. Pre-marriage debt remains with the spouse who took it.
And no, it's not 1k per month. At today's interest rates, it's more like $100 per month

Montrose I think your math is off. $100 payments per month on $120000 of debt would take 1200 months or 100 years to pay off not including interest. $1000 per month plus interest would be over 10 years.

My opinion is that marrying a woman who's got some debt is fine, but a woman who takes out that kind of loan, only to realize 5 years into her career that she wants to be a mother shows a complete lack of foresight. If she's taking care of your children, you will be shelling out $1000+ per month on a degree that she's not using!

If she had $30000 of debt and you only had to pay a few hundred a month, that would be manageable, but you would have to shoulder $10000+ per year for this girl. Too much

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07-05-2019 09:59 AM
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Montrose Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
True, $100 is just interest payment. Paying the principal is her problem, not OP's.

Just to put things in perspective, the net present value of a career 'killing it' in pharma sales is several million dollars. Which she will spend on herself and OP's kids. At $120,000 I'm a buyer.
07-05-2019 10:03 AM
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SilentOne Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
(07-05-2019 08:16 AM)treypound Wrote:  Her friends are all smoke shows, but they also are the type that spend hundreds of dollars unconsciously at the mall on a random weekday because they can. Three of them are married to cuckold betas who let them do what they please while they are out working all day.

Facepalm

You are the main group of people you hangout with. If that's the type of guys her girls are seeing, guess who's next in line to be the cuckold beta??
07-05-2019 10:44 AM
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qwertyuiop Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
She has a job, make it clear you aren't going to pay her debt. Pharma sales pays pretty well...
07-05-2019 11:23 AM
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Dr. Howard Away
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
(07-05-2019 07:33 AM)redbeard Wrote:  A woman with *debt* isn't terrible. A lot of girls rack up a few g's in credit card debt without even realizing it. They don't understand the power of compounding interest so they just let it build up.

Thankfully good women are coachable. The silver lining is that if she listens to you and starts implementing changes in her spending habits, that's a gold star. You want a woman who will mold to you and follow your lead.

However...$120k is atrocious. Unless you win the lottery that debt load will become yours if you marry her. Are you ready to shell out $1k (or more?) a month to pay off someone else's debt?

Combine that with the fact that she's about to hit the wall, and that you're possibly doing long distance (based on the title?), you might want to reconsider.

You can use this as a test of her submissiveness/willingness to improve before you get married.

Tell her that if you get married, the idea isn't for each spouse to double time it to cover the other's faults, when you are married you clean up your act on your worst faults out of respect for your spouse.

Advise her, that you are good with money and have no debt and would like to bring her into that mindset starting with marriage day 1. Tell her that you'd like her to make an actual plan to pay off her debt, then a budget and follow that budget and make payments on her loans.

If she freaks out with tantrums, or disrespects the idea...that is going to be your entire marriage. If she complains a bit, but is compliant and puts effort into it, especially to earn recognition/praise from you she can probably submit her own ego to improvement/approval.

Better to test it now, than after you get married.

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07-05-2019 11:46 AM
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
(07-05-2019 07:05 AM)treypound Wrote:  2. She spends as soon as she makes it.

What exactly is she spending her money on?

Is it:

Clothes
Hair dresser
Phone
Spa treatments
Getting nails done
Eating / drinking out with friends
Entertainment
Etc.

The above items are indicative of the deep social consumerism conditioning thats been adopted by boomer and beyond generations.

How strongly she reacts the idea that "doing without" any of the above or similar categories for a period of time will tell you exactly how ingrained her conditioning is

If the idea of "delayed gratification" is tantamount to inhumane torture then you have a tough row to hoe ahead with her

The above mindset is also the lack of a long term plan / goal made manifest. If she has no specific goals then she will continue to "spray" and live for immediate distraction rather than move forward with focus towards a purpose with intent. (This goes for everyone)

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


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07-05-2019 12:13 PM
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lunchmoney Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
(07-05-2019 11:23 AM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  She has a job, make it clear you aren't going to pay her debt. Pharma sales pays pretty well...

The way I read it if she is bringing up starting a family, she won't want to get back to work after popping out babies.
07-05-2019 01:54 PM
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Her earnings potential in the pharma sales industry is astronomical. I don’t know if you knew that, OP. We’re talking like doctor/surgeon levels of income.

Her 120k debt, including student loans, is not a huge issue in light of her earnings potential. She alone could clear it up in a few years, and faster with your help.

The big risk to me would be marrying her, taking on her debt, and she decides to quit pharma sales and become a stay at home mom.

What would you do then? All of her debt would be *your* problem.

"There's no such thing as different but equal." -Dante Nero
07-05-2019 02:09 PM
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jabba Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Based on my experience, women who aren't fiscally responsible will be burdened with debt, which erodes your quality of life. You're intentionally starting an LTR who spends without thinking. Are you going to be her daddy, train her about paying on time and cover her debts in the future?

Women have the advantage in earning more than men now. Either way she will be taught the hard truths of debt. Banks have a game plan for this. She can learn the rules on her own or you will pay for it in some way.

Women can have babies. That's biology. She doesn't get extra points for that.
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2019 02:35 PM by jabba.)
07-05-2019 02:30 PM
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Alpone Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Quote:I say marry her.

lol No. The debt and spending habits seem minor now but will become an ocean of resentment if you marry. Why try to "train" her when you can just find someone else without bad habits?

Quote:She's in pharma sales.

Red flag. Most of these chicks are as status obsessed as lawyers, but lawyers are probably more ethical. She's a professional drug dealer pushing stuff that often has more downside than upside while schmoozing with very high status/wealthy doctors all over the country. If you can overlook that, that's cool, but this profession tends to attract especially hypergamous women.

I judge a woman by her profession. Your results may vary.
07-05-2019 06:29 PM
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bacon Offline
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Most American's have debt. Often they are comfortable with that especially if its reasonable rates, like student loans. With this girl, given that she has a high paying job, she probably feels like she has every right to spend money and chip away at her debt slowly.

You are an outlier. Most people in your age group don't have their finances as set up as you do (paid off home, no debt, investments).

It would be downright idiotic for you to marry her in her current state as you would be assuming her debt. That said, you might be able to win her over to understanding the importance of being debt free and having investments if you broach the subject with some finesse.

Probably, she does not think logically about these things so maybe just start chipping away by asking her questions about her thoughts on debt, how people get rich, if she has heard of compound interest over the course of a couple weeks. From there you can kind of get an idea on how to further discuss the topic.

If she is completely unwilling to talk about it or trivializes it after you have made many attempts to talk about it, I don't see how you can marry her.

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(This post was last modified: 07-05-2019 07:28 PM by bacon.)
07-05-2019 07:21 PM
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
(07-05-2019 10:03 AM)Montrose Wrote:  Paying the principal is her problem, not OP's.

If they marry, their whole life is shared.

Also, if Treypound wants to have children with her then pregnancy and childcare will affect her ability to earn income.
07-05-2019 09:53 PM
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Make sure she signs a pre nup. Her debt is hers, it does not become yours if you marry.
I would suggest a very long engagement if you are serious. If other red flags come up, then bail.

Do NOT get joint checking. Keep your finances separate. Be firm on all matters that are financial

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07-05-2019 10:04 PM
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
The problem isn't the debt itself given that she has a well paying job with much bigger earning potential.

The problem is that she seems financially irresponsible and her friends, who are married to beta simps, could be even worse.

If I were you I would keep the relationship going but wouldn't marry her. If she can change her habits and lose those golddigging friends, maybe then you can consider marrying her and having children. Otherwise don't get into anything serious with her and she will leave sooner or later.
07-05-2019 10:54 PM
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RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Huge debt, go-getting aggressive career, no financial sense, friends are all hot women who have locked down beta simps, late 20s.

Run my friend. Avoid women like this like the plague. She doesn't have the character of s good wife or mother, she wants status, consumerism and a chained man to foot the bill.

You want her to be flying around from coast to coast selling stuff for corporations while her young children are in daycare? That is evil.

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07-05-2019 11:09 PM
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