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atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
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Levaduro Offline
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atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
I have never felt very attached to Christianity. I was raised up by Christians, and usually went to church as a kid but I didn't felt any kind of bound with God, quite the opposite indeed. I respect people being Christian, and I'd even say that it's better to have a society where Christianity is the normal rule than having the society that we have nowadays.What I envy, about Christians though, is that it looks as if each time they run into a moral problem, they can easily solve it by reading the words of god.
I tried to come closer to God by reading the bible, but I didn't succeed. It's seems to me that there's no way I can believe. I find Christianity as something foreign. Therefore, my point is that becoming a christian is out of the question (I guess that for the time being).

The problem that I have is that, despite the fact that I have been keen on philosophy such as stoicism,Taoism, sometimes I feel that I cannot find answers to certain things such as morality, what is good or bad and so on and so forth in these currents of thought. I also lack the sense of community that Christianity brings.

So my question is for the atheists of the forum. What do you do to approach the spiritual world and how do you set your values?
07-08-2019 12:53 PM
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aeroektar Offline
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RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
I believe in Christianity the same way a father believes in Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny in the presence of his children. Its good for society, so I encourage it. I grew up Catholic and prefer living in a Christian society, I do believe one day I'll settle down with a Christian woman and raise a family with the same Christian traditions I was raised with, I'll attend church and maybe my beliefs will change, but up to this point in my life I've never personally felt that it's the truth. I pray a few times a month, I feel like at times I've had prayers answered, but my prayers were never directed at Jesus Christ, I just speak to God whoever that is. I've experienced many spiritual moments and events, and seen the wonders of the world around us, to me that's enough to confirm God exists, I just don't know what it is.

True Atheism in my opinion is for the soulless.
07-08-2019 01:42 PM
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wwtl Offline
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RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
(07-08-2019 12:53 PM)Levaduro Wrote:  I have never felt very attached to Christianity. I was raised up by Christians, and usually went to church as a kid but I didn't felt any kind of bound with God, quite the opposite indeed. I respect people being Christian, and I'd even say that it's better to have a society where Christianity is the normal rule than having the society that we have nowadays.What I envy, about Christians though, is that it looks as if each time they run into a moral problem, they can easily solve it by reading the words of god.
I tried to come closer to God by reading the bible, but I didn't succeed. It's seems to me that there's no way I can believe. I find Christianity as something foreign. Therefore, my point is that becoming a christian is out of the question (I guess that for the time being).

The problem that I have is that, despite the fact that I have been keen on philosophy such as stoicism,Taoism, sometimes I feel that I cannot find answers to certain things such as morality, what is good or bad and so on and so forth in these currents of thought. I also lack the sense of community that Christianity brings.

So my question is for the atheists of the forum. What do you do to approach the spiritual world and how do you set your values?

Ex-atheist here, raised by atheists, who never went to church. I got myself started by practicing Christian virtues like forgiveness - without believing in sin yet. A few years later I got so fed up with the clown world, that I started pretending being Christian just for trolling atheists online. I got myself a Bible to quote verses from Genesis, because they hate creationists, so of course I larped one.

Quickly after I asked myself: Why does pretending Christian feel so right? Maybe there is something to it. Let's pretend the entirety of the Bible is truth and God exists. Still not really serious I did a prayer asking the Lord to gift me the faith. He did by His endless grace and revealed Himself to me as the living God. And so I got converted more or less "by accident".

My conversion story: Fake it till you make it.
07-08-2019 03:58 PM
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Emperor Constantine Offline
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RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
Before I became a Christian I got my values from Ayn Rand, Marcus Aurelius, and society. One of those was a solid choice...

And I didn't try to get in touch with the spiritual world because I didn't think it existed.

Also, wwtl, your story made my day! The Lord works his wonders in mysterious ways.
07-08-2019 05:03 PM
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FlyLow Offline
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RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
(07-08-2019 03:58 PM)wwtl Wrote:  
(07-08-2019 12:53 PM)Levaduro Wrote:  I have never felt very attached to Christianity. I was raised up by Christians, and usually went to church as a kid but I didn't felt any kind of bound with God, quite the opposite indeed. I respect people being Christian, and I'd even say that it's better to have a society where Christianity is the normal rule than having the society that we have nowadays.What I envy, about Christians though, is that it looks as if each time they run into a moral problem, they can easily solve it by reading the words of god.
I tried to come closer to God by reading the bible, but I didn't succeed. It's seems to me that there's no way I can believe. I find Christianity as something foreign. Therefore, my point is that becoming a christian is out of the question (I guess that for the time being).

The problem that I have is that, despite the fact that I have been keen on philosophy such as stoicism,Taoism, sometimes I feel that I cannot find answers to certain things such as morality, what is good or bad and so on and so forth in these currents of thought. I also lack the sense of community that Christianity brings.

So my question is for the atheists of the forum. What do you do to approach the spiritual world and how do you set your values?

Ex-atheist here, raised by atheists, who never went to church. I got myself started by practicing Christian virtues like forgiveness - without believing in sin yet. A few years later I got so fed up with the clown world, that I started pretending being Christian just for trolling atheists online. I got myself a Bible to quote verses from Genesis, because they hate creationists, so of course I larped one.

Quickly after I asked myself: Why does pretending Christian feel so right? Maybe there is something to it. Let's pretend the entirety of the Bible is truth and God exists. Still not really serious I did a prayer asking the Lord to gift me the faith. He did by His endless grace and revealed Himself to me as the living God. And so I got converted more or less "by accident".

My conversion story: Fake it till you make it.

wwtl, if you don't mind explaining.. how did God reveal himself to you?
07-09-2019 12:35 AM
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wwtl Offline
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RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
(07-09-2019 12:35 AM)FlyLow Wrote:  wwtl, if you don't mind explaining.. how did God reveal himself to you?

You simply know when He does, without a doubt. Divine Love is quite an experience, which is completely unknown to atheists. (Note: I stay entirely sober.) You also start to notice, how the Lord arranges ridiculously improbable "coincidences" to answer prayers and execute His plan, especially if you at some point submit your life to Him like I did this year. This is where my forum handle comes from: Walking with the Lord.
07-09-2019 01:18 AM
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Zagor Offline
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Post: #7
RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
I suggest a book by Eric Fromm called Man for himself. He makes the argument that the etical/moral behaviour is inherent to human nature.
07-09-2019 02:01 AM
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[email protected] Offline
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RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
I think you are asking the wrong question OP. People don't need religion or God to be happy (at least in the short to mid-term). The real question is how do atheists cope with black pills & despair. I really don't know (I'm atheist).
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2019 02:04 AM by [email protected].)
07-09-2019 02:03 AM
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Zagor Offline
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RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
Stoically. You accept that which you cannot change.
07-09-2019 02:08 AM
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Montrose Offline
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RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
According to Canon law, you don't have to believe in God to be a Christian. In fact, most Christians don't care. I'm a Catholic but I do not believe in the theological teachings of the Church. In particular, I am very skeptical of the existence of God. But I'm still a Christian. (Not believing is a grave sin, but it does not kick you out of the Church). I study Christian morals (mostly catechism) and try to implement them in my life (with great difficulty I admit, particularly the commandment against adultery). And I am a member of a strong Catholic community.

Also note that believing is not required to be a Jew either. Many rabbis are openly atheists.
07-09-2019 04:54 AM
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wwtl Offline
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RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
(07-09-2019 04:54 AM)Montrose Wrote:  According to Canon law, you don't have to believe in God to be a Christian.

One key point of Christianity is that you have to believe in Jesus Christ being your Lord and savior to actually get saved.

Quote:Also note that believing is not required to be a Jew either. Many rabbis are openly atheists.

They don't get saved anyway, so it doesn't matter what they believe.
07-09-2019 05:15 AM
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mr_ks Offline
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Post: #12
RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
Morality is like beauty. It cannot be explained by science completely, but we know it when we see it. Those of us who are superior humans see it more clearly than those less endowed.
07-09-2019 09:11 AM
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RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
What is this spiritual world you speak of?
07-09-2019 10:29 AM
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Hell_Is_Like_Newark Offline
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RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
(07-08-2019 12:53 PM)Levaduro Wrote:  I have never felt very attached to Christianity. I was raised up by Christians, and usually went to church as a kid but I didn't felt any kind of bound with God, quite the opposite indeed.

So my question is for the atheists of the forum. What do you do to approach the spiritual world and how do you set your values?

Note: I was very anti-Christian until my later 20s. After learning more about it (from non-Pozed classically orientated sources), I am no longer so..

My Dad in particular was a religious man (my Mom not so much) who's dedication to the church (Protestantism) faded away (more on that later). When I came into the world (1970), my parents were still active in a local church. As a little kid, I got enrolled in the church run nursery school (public school back then didn't start until kindergarten), which was basically early indoctrination into the church. Even though I was only four years old, I still remember it.. not in a positive way.

The women who ran the place.. I can still see their scowling faces and hear the nastiness of their comments, the constant threats, and physical abuse (not sexual). As kids, we were forced to sit and take religious instruction, under threat (of going to Hell, getting smacked,.. or something else), for hours at a time (with brief periods of recess). I was four.. I wanted to go outside and play. I completely rejected the place. I remember trying to run away and my Mom dragging me into the school. Eventually, I was pulled out of the place (freaking out like Damien going to church in the movie 'The Omen' cued Mom that maybe it wasn't the place for me) and sent to another nursery school (Reform Jewish run place.. go figure) that was basically let the kids play all day. Turns out most of the kids I would later go to public school with were there as well (most non-Jewish). The place was 95% religion free.

So early in life Christianity = cruelty & abuse.

Later in my life to early adulthood, the deeply dedicated Christians I dealt with generally fell into these categories:

Hypocrites: Some of the worst human beings I dealt with.. liars, weak willed, cowardly, etc.. were also (on the surface) the most "religious". Religion like patriotism is often a refuge for a scoundrel.

Christianity = hypocrisy

Puritanical Scolds (Protestants mostly): In college, these were the guys when a bunch of us were drinking beer and socializing (not in anyway drunk or obnoxious) would scold, complain, or file reports with the college administration for breaking 'the rules'. I got more than one lecture on the evils of alcohol. Overall, these were miserable people who ironically would sometimes end up in the emergency room with alcohol poisoning. Never having had anything to drink, some of them would 'go off the wagon' not knowing how to moderate.

Christianity = misery

The stupid, bereft of reason, superstitious: One of my "favorite" incidents was a local sermon (Lutheran.. friend asked me to go) where the pastor preached that the classical Christians never drank wine.. it was grape juice Dodgy ! The general gist was to be a Christian you must accept some really unreasonable "facts", no matter how little evidence or logic backing them up. If you don't, you are going to Hell, or at least got labeled as "un-Christian". Other "sins" would be believing the earth isn't 5,000 years old.

Christianity = rejection of science, reason

The POZ: Disarm, never use violence, never defend yourself, embrace homosexuality, love thy enemies, etc... I am on the East Coast and this is pretty much every mainstream church. Bunch of leftist crap. Yes, I know now this isn't real Christianity. The latest revelation was how "Love thy enemies" isn't stated at all (terrible translation from Greek).. quite the opposite.

So am I still an atheist? Yes.. because I see no evidence of a supreme being. I do however, see evidence that Christianity has been much more a force of good in creating Western Civilization than a force for decay or stagnation.

I set my values on what has worked in the world.. from the classical pre Christian and Christian eras. I want a high trust society with the concept that we are creatures of 'free will' (the opposite of Islam's "slaves to God").


On my Dad's fading away from the Church: I can pinpoint the time it started. It was before I was born, when my Mom gave birth to the younger of my two sisters. Mom was hemorrhaging and needed a blood transfusion. The hospitals blood bank was very low in its supply. In fact, they were completely out of my Mom's blood type. My Dad stood up in front of the congregation and implored everyone to please give blood right away.

Nobody did....

My Dad was teaching organic chemistry at the local university. His students found out about the situation (he never informed them). So many of his students gave blood that day that the blood bank was filled to capacity. Students were turned away from donating as a result. Mom got her transfusion and recovered.

The lame excuses from congregation members afterwards profoundly affected both my parents. Dad didn't lose his faith in God.. but he sure as hell lost faith in his fellow "Christians".
07-09-2019 11:01 AM
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wwtl Offline
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RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
(07-09-2019 11:01 AM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  
(07-08-2019 12:53 PM)Levaduro Wrote:  I have never felt very attached to Christianity. I was raised up by Christians, and usually went to church as a kid but I didn't felt any kind of bound with God, quite the opposite indeed.

So my question is for the atheists of the forum. What do you do to approach the spiritual world and how do you set your values?

Note: I was very anti-Christian until my later 20s. After learning more about it (from non-Pozed classically orientated sources), I am no longer so..

My Dad in particular was a religious man (my Mom not so much) who's dedication to the church (Protestantism) faded away (more on that later). When I came into the world (1970), my parents were still active in a local church. As a little kid, I got enrolled in the church run nursery school (public school back then didn't start until kindergarten), which was basically early indoctrination into the church. Even though I was only four years old, I still remember it.. not in a positive way.

The women who ran the place.. I can still see their scowling faces and hear the nastiness of their comments, the constant threats, and physical abuse (not sexual). As kids, we were forced to sit and take religious instruction, under threat (of going to Hell, getting smacked,.. or something else), for hours at a time (with brief periods of recess). I was four.. I wanted to go outside and play. I completely rejected the place. I remember trying to run away and my Mom dragging me into the school. Eventually, I was pulled out of the place (freaking out like Damien going to church in the movie 'The Omen' cued Mom that maybe it wasn't the place for me) and sent to another nursery school (Reform Jewish run place.. go figure) that was basically let the kids play all day. Turns out most of the kids I would later go to public school with were there as well (most non-Jewish). The place was 95% religion free.

So early in life Christianity = cruelty & abuse.

Later in my life to early adulthood, the deeply dedicated Christians I dealt with generally fell into these categories:

Hypocrites: Some of the worst human beings I dealt with.. liars, weak willed, cowardly, etc.. were also (on the surface) the most "religious". Religion like patriotism is often a refuge for a scoundrel.

Christianity = hypocrisy

Puritanical Scolds (Protestants mostly): In college, these were the guys when a bunch of us were drinking beer and socializing (not in anyway drunk or obnoxious) would scold, complain, or file reports with the college administration for breaking 'the rules'. I got more than one lecture on the evils of alcohol. Overall, these were miserable people who ironically would sometimes end up in the emergency room with alcohol poisoning. Never having had anything to drink, some of them would 'go off the wagon' not knowing how to moderate.

Christianity = misery

The stupid, bereft of reason, superstitious: One of my "favorite" incidents was a local sermon (Lutheran.. friend asked me to go) where the pastor preached that the classical Christians never drank wine.. it was grape juice Dodgy ! The general gist was to be a Christian you must accept some really unreasonable "facts", no matter how little evidence or logic backing them up. If you don't, you are going to Hell, or at least got labeled as "un-Christian". Other "sins" would be believing the earth isn't 5,000 years old.

Christianity = rejection of science, reason

The POZ: Disarm, never use violence, never defend yourself, embrace homosexuality, love thy enemies, etc... I am on the East Coast and this is pretty much every mainstream church. Bunch of leftist crap. Yes, I know now this isn't real Christianity. The latest revelation was how "Love thy enemies" isn't stated at all (terrible translation from Greek).. quite the opposite.

So am I still an atheist? Yes.. because I see no evidence of a supreme being. I do however, see evidence that Christianity has been much more a force of good in creating Western Civilization than a force for decay or stagnation.

I set my values on what has worked in the world.. from the classical pre Christian and Christian eras. I want a high trust society with the concept that we are creatures of 'free will' (the opposite of Islam's "slaves to God").


On my Dad's fading away from the Church: I can pinpoint the time it started. It was before I was born, when my Mom gave birth to the younger of my two sisters. Mom was hemorrhaging and needed a blood transfusion. The hospitals blood bank was very low in its supply. In fact, they were completely out of my Mom's blood type. My Dad stood up in front of the congregation and implored everyone to please give blood right away.

Nobody did....

My Dad was teaching organic chemistry at the local university. His students found out about the situation (he never informed them). So many of his students gave blood that day that the blood bank was filled to capacity. Students were turned away from donating as a result. Mom got her transfusion and recovered.

The lame excuses from congregation members afterwards profoundly affected both my parents. Dad didn't lose his faith in God.. but he sure as hell lost faith in his fellow "Christians".

As an atheist you only see fallible followers of Jesus Christ, but not Christ Himself, because you don't believe in Him. That means you are missing an important part of the picture.

You somehow have the notion, that Christians need to be some kind of super-humans, while in fact they cannot be. That's the reason we all need Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for our sins.

I think your post demonstrates a common fallacy of atheism (or communism and other Anti-Christian ideologies), with their goal to create the perfect human and the perfect paradise on Earth to live in. And that's the reason why people primarily look for this and are disappointed when not finding it in Christianity.
07-09-2019 12:05 PM
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Hell_Is_Like_Newark Offline
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Post: #16
RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
(07-09-2019 12:05 PM)wwtl Wrote:  As an atheist you only see fallible followers of Jesus Christ, but not Christ Himself, because you don't believe in Him. That means you are missing an important part of the picture.

I wasn't an atheist when I was a kid. I just noticed that the more "dedicated to Christ" the worst the person was (in general with exceptions).

A historical figure that had a conversion on a similar vein was Julian the Apostate:

Julian is called by Christians "the Apostate" because he converted from Christianity to Theurgy. As attested in private letters between him and the rhetorician Libanius, Julian had Christianity forced on him as a child by his cousin Constantius II, who was a zealous Arian Christian and would have not tolerated a pagan relative. "Reacting violently against the Christian teaching that he had received in a lonely and miserable childhood," A.H.M. Jones observes, "he had developed a passionate interest in the art, literature and mythology of Greece and had grown to detest the new religion which condemned all he loved as pernicious vanity. He was of a strongly religious temperament, and found solace in the pantheistic mysticism which contemporary Neoplatonist philosophers taught."[4] After his conversion to Hellenism he devoted his life to protecting and restoring the fame and security of this tradition.

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/ent...e_Apostate

I do believe Christ existed, but I do not believe in the divine part (virgin birth, miracles, etc). My interest in Christianity is not personal salvation, but on its effect in bringing about modern Western Civilization.

You somehow have the notion, that Christians need to be some kind of super-humans, while in fact they cannot be.

Never expected that.

I think your post demonstrates a common fallacy of atheism (or communism and other Anti-Christian ideologies), with their goal to create the perfect human and the perfect paradise on Earth to live in.

My personal philosophy could best be described as classical Stoicism, which is the polar opposite of expecting perfect humans / perfect world paradise. It is a philosophy that has served me well, especially during some recent / current crises involving myself and family.
07-10-2019 10:12 AM
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Post: #17
RE: atheists, how do you reach happiness in the spiritual world without god?
(07-10-2019 10:12 AM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  I wasn't an atheist when I was a kid. I just noticed that the more "dedicated to Christ" the worst the person was (in general with exceptions).

I do believe Christ existed, but I do not believe in the divine part (virgin birth, miracles, etc). My interest in Christianity is not personal salvation, but on its effect in bringing about modern Western Civilization.

Well child faith is just that. There is a reason why some denominations only baptize adults in faith, because child-baptism is always some wishful thinking.

It doesn't matter if you acknowledge the historicity of Jesus Christ or not (denying Jesus Christ would be on par with denying Julius Caesar). If you don't believe in Jesus being the Son of God you come up with the same result: You are judging Christians without having resurrected Jesus in the picture. As a consequence you can only come up with bogus conclusions, because you are selectively ignoring evidence.
07-10-2019 11:28 AM
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