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Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
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Checkmat Offline
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Post: #1
Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
Reference these few posts I made in the LTR/Marriage master thread a while back: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-65682-page-6.html

This was pre-Christian RVF. Now that the forum has a more LTR/Marriage-focused slant, I want to talk about the realism of expectations in an LTR.

How strongly enforced should your LTR boundaries be? What tolerance should you have for lying?

Everyone lies to some degree. I have lied to all of my previous LTRs about one thing or another. Some small things, some not so small things. And they have all lied to me to various degrees as well.

I also took Roosh's advice from Game about laying down relationship boundaries at the beginning of an LTR.

As seen in the thread I posted to/in earlier, my previous LTR ended because she broke one of my boundaries and lied about it. The boundary was, Do Not Give Your Phone Number to Guys That You Know Want to Fuck You.

To me, that's a good boundary to have. It demonstrates my expectation that she respect me and our relationship and needs to shut down guys who are trying to fuck her. Pretty basic stuff.

When she crossed that boundary and the LTR ended, I asked my buddy who has been in a 10 year LTR with his girlfriend what he would have done.

He told me that it was definitely a problem that she did that and lied about it. He said though, that he and his girlfriend have invested so much into their relationship after ten years, that it alone would not warrant a break up. He said, "It would definitely be something we would need to talk about, but I would not break up with her over it."

So I'm now wondering, looking forward to the future and my next LTR, a couple of things.

A) Is that boundary too unrealistic to expect any girl to follow?
B) Is some degree of lying in a relationship unavoidable?
C) Is it realistic to expect 100% honesty from any girl?
D) Should relationships be ended the moment someone breaks a boundary or lies to the other person?

I want to enforce healthy boundaries in my relationships, but at the same time I don't want to be unrealistic.

My ex-LTR said, of me breaking up with her, "Yes I fucked up. But you are overreacting to throw everything away over this. You'll never find the perfect girl who never messes up."

I ponder that. These words are similar to what my ex-wife said to me about me expecting perfection from a girl and throwing the relationship away because she wasn't "perfect".

So what do you all think? What standards and expectations are reasonable to expect from your girlfriend or wife? How much leeway and wiggle room should they have to be lie or be deceitful?

"There's no such thing as different but equal." -Dante Nero
07-10-2019 08:38 AM
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Manbeline Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
The phone number break up boundary I would not have, simply to test her. I got some good advice from older men where they say that women should naturally know the limits you put on her. The reason you do is for both a test of your alphaness and her loyalty. Loyal women will know the boundaries. Disloyal women will break them because they don't take it seriously enough. Then after you see they break one of the implicit boundaries, make a note of it and make decisions based on it. What is more, if a woman breaks it, see how guilty she is about it. If she's guilty, it means she knows it's wrong, and you can sort of forgive her for it since it means she knows what the boundary is regardless.

It just depends on how much you care for the woman. If it's a throwaway, I kind of do not care, though her breaking boundaries will tell me how less I should care for her. If she's someone you kinda like or want to keep around, then it gets a little more serious in how to judge them. In the end, best advice I've gotten is to make a woman not want to do anything to upset you, whether its your LTR, ONS, or your wife.
07-10-2019 09:01 AM
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Baphomet Offline
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RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
(07-10-2019 08:38 AM)Checkmat Wrote:  A) Is that boundary too unrealistic to expect any girl to follow?
B) Is some degree of lying in a relationship unavoidable?
C) Is it realistic to expect 100% honesty from any girl?
D) Should relationships be ended the moment someone breaks a boundary or lies to the other person?

I want to enforce healthy boundaries in my relationships, but at the same time I don't want to be unrealistic.

My ex-LTR said, of me breaking up with her, "Yes I fucked up. But you are overreacting to throw everything away over this. You'll never find the perfect girl who never messes up."

A) Not giving contact information to potential sex partners is a completely reasonable relationship boundary. Any girl who believes that not to be the case is NOT LTR material.

B) Lying between humans will always happen. A sound, trust relationship should very substantially minimize that tendency.

C) It is not reasonable to expect 100% honesty from any human. There are degrees of lies. "You look fine!", when she does not, is quite different than, "I'm at my mom's house", when in fact she's naked with Chad.

D) For me, some boundaries are entirely inflexible. Any form of infidelity is an immediate death sentence, for example. No pardons, no parole. Other boundaries have some degree of elasticity to them, but not a huge amount. Humans, men AND women, make mistakes. Forgiveness, in the presence of an honest apology, contrition, and regret can be a powerful bonding experience.

That said, giving phone numbers to potential sex partners is not forgivable. (I'm pretty hard line on fidelity.)
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2019 09:16 AM by Baphomet.)
07-10-2019 09:15 AM
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EndsExpect Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
(07-10-2019 08:38 AM)Checkmat Wrote:  As seen in the thread I posted to/in earlier, my previous LTR ended because she broke one of my boundaries and lied about it. The boundary was, Do Not Give Your Phone Number to Guys That You Know Want to Fuck You.

So I'm now wondering, looking forward to the future and my next LTR, a couple of things.

A) Is that boundary too unrealistic to expect any girl to follow?
B) Is some degree of lying in a relationship unavoidable?
C) Is it realistic to expect 100% honesty from any girl?
D) Should relationships be ended the moment someone breaks a boundary or lies to the other person?

My ex-LTR said, of me breaking up with her, "Yes I fucked up. But you are overreacting to throw everything away over this. You'll never find the perfect girl who never messes up."

A) It's probably one of the most important boundaries to set. I'd say it should be viewed as unconditional.

B) If you don't lie, then she should not lie. I believe truthfulness should be an expectation. She should be honest with you at all times and be willing to accept those consequences.

C) In the big things... YES!

D) That is entirely up you.

Regarding your personal situation, that is a very important boundary. It shows either cheating intent or a need for validation from other men. Neither are acceptable, and neither of them are things you can change. I feel a breakup was appropriate. To be honest her attempt to throw it back on you as if you are overreacting further proves to me that this was the correct path.

It would probably be helpful to discuss how to provide consequences for boundary crossing that does not involve dumping. I personally have found that things that may work with one woman do not work with others.
07-10-2019 09:16 AM
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GT777733 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
A) No it's not unrealistic
B) Yes, little white lies are unavoidable - just like they are in friendships
C) Even the best women lie about small inconsequential things to make themselves feel better or to keep up an image. Ever been around your mother when you've seen her do something with your own eyes when you were younger, and she denies it to your dad's face? The small things at home aren't bad as long as she doesn't do it all the time or it isn't serious. Obviously if she hides important things from you that's a different story.
D) Depends what it is

I will save you some time ... you will get guys that will tell you women can be coached
That's true, but only to a very limited extent
Women are who they are at their core when you meet them
Some women can do a terrific job for even a year or two pretending to take on the things you think you're red pilling them on or teaching them, and then if you guys break up, can snap into being a completely different person. It's this ability to adapt to environments and rationalise illogical things that make women feminine

The key is in the screening

Know exactly what you will and won't tolerate from a woman before you start dating. You can then test and screen her on all of the most important things that are non negotiable

If you get to the relationship stage and you've screened for a good ability to communicate and take on board and respect what you say - you can start 'coaching' her on all the smaller inconsequential stuff

I don't want to sound black pill - but, there's a lot of trash behavior going on out there at the moment. It's possible you find it difficult to find a woman that has good behavioral standards (or at least respects what a responsible man brings to a relationship), that is also decently attractive, unless you venture outside of the West (but, you will then possibly encounter a different/unique set of challenges abroad)
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2019 09:35 AM by GT777733.)
07-10-2019 09:32 AM
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Montrose Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
My wife caught me cheating and she forgave me. If I caught her cheating I would likely forgive her. It doesn't make any sense to throw away our 20-year long common adventure for such petty matters -- but of course it depends on your priorities.
07-10-2019 09:55 AM
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Montrose Offline
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RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
Now my take on your question:

A) it's not that it is unrealistic to expect girls follow it; It's unrealistic to expect to be able to control it. If people want to give their phone number they will. Trying to enforce something that you cannot monitor is VERY BAD policy for a variety of reasons.
B) lying is not only unavoidable but desirable. You certainly don't want 100% transparency with your spouse. It's like in a job. You cannot have 100% transparency with a boss or employee. Some things must left unsaid.
C) it's unrealistic and not desirable
D) up to you. I personally wouldn't. I judge my relationships purely on a cost-benefit basis. If a woman is a compulsive liar and cheater but makes me happy, I keep her.
07-10-2019 10:02 AM
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wwtl Offline
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RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
It essentially boils down to the mistake of giving the woman a phone. That is irresistible temptation already.

In an orderly society, the wife would communicate to outside world through her husband only.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2019 01:29 PM by wwtl.)
07-10-2019 12:50 PM
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Checkmat Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
Good responses in here.

I think my concern is meeting a girl who makes me happy, enriches my life, plan to start a family together, but she crosses a boundary or disrespects me one time and I feel compelled to be a man of my word and enforce the boundary by dumping her ass immediately.

In the past I have tolerated countless instances of disrespect and infidelity from LTRs. I am hyper sensitive to this topic and don’t ever want to feel like a cuck again.

"There's no such thing as different but equal." -Dante Nero
07-10-2019 01:09 PM
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Montrose Offline
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RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
Why are you so sensitive?
07-10-2019 01:17 PM
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wwtl Offline
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RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
(07-10-2019 01:09 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  I think my concern is meeting a girl who makes me happy, enriches my life, plan to start a family together, but she crosses a boundary or disrespects me one time and I feel compelled to be a man of my word and enforce the boundary by dumping her ass immediately.

In the past I have tolerated countless instances of disrespect and infidelity from LTRs. I am hyper sensitive to this topic and don’t ever want to feel like a cuck again.

From a Christian perspective God expects us sinners to adhere to His commandments in our long-term relationship with Him and sees us fail numerous times. Yet He forgives, if we repent. Or He punishes us in love. Again and again.

Women due to their lack of control over their emotions are even more fallible than men. So keeping them to higher standard than God keep us humans can't work in the long term. What one needs is a functioning regime for dealing with her inevitable failures to bring the relationship back on track.

We used to have physical punishment as a lesser option to ending it. It worked well.
07-10-2019 01:47 PM
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Checkmat Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
(07-10-2019 09:55 AM)Montrose Wrote:  My wife caught me cheating and she forgave me. If I caught her cheating I would likely forgive her. It doesn't make any sense to throw away our 20-year long common adventure for such petty matters -- but of course it depends on your priorities.

It’s one thing to forgive infidelity in a 20-year marriage.

Would you forgive her if she cheated on you one year into the relationship?

"There's no such thing as different but equal." -Dante Nero
07-10-2019 06:46 PM
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MichaelWitcoff Offline
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RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
(07-10-2019 01:09 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  Good responses in here.

I think my concern is meeting a girl who makes me happy, enriches my life, plan to start a family together, but she crosses a boundary or disrespects me one time and I feel compelled to be a man of my word and enforce the boundary by dumping her ass immediately.

In the past I have tolerated countless instances of disrespect and infidelity from LTRs. I am hyper sensitive to this topic and don’t ever want to feel like a cuck again.

The best way to deal with drama is what Blackdragon calls the "Soft Next." If it's the type of drama that violates your boundaries - whether that's lying, yelling at you, cursing at you, whatever - you go no-contact for 3-7 days, depending on the severity, ignoring any and all of her attempts to talk with you during that time frame.

Afterward you resume contact as if nothing has happened, and you never bring it up again. Believe me, she knows what she did wrong and she won't do it again if she's capable of learning. If she does the same thing over and over again despite these gentle attempts to teach her that you don't like it, then she's not the type you want to be with and you should just break up with her.

But a breakup on the first offense does seem like a bit of an over-reaction, especially if you have a history of being in a happy relationship together.

Return Of Kings contributor and best-selling author of "On The Mason And Their Lies."
07-10-2019 09:32 PM
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Barron Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
(07-10-2019 09:55 AM)Montrose Wrote:  My wife caught me cheating and she forgave me. If I caught her cheating I would likely forgive her. It doesn't make any sense to throw away our 20-year long common adventure for such petty matters -- but of course it depends on your priorities.

These are two different things entirely.
A man's body does not comprise the value that he brings to a relationship. He invests his time and money towards the family unit, first and foremost.

A woman's body does comprise the value that she brings to a relationship. She invests her body towards the family unit, first and foremost.

Therefore,
A man sleeping with a woman that is not his wife/gf is not him giving his value to another woman.
A woman sleeping with a man that is not her husband is her giving her value to another man.
*edit: and you'd be a fool to forgive her.

Thus it is right that she forgive you this. However, if she caught you investing your time and money in another woman (sex is a foregone conclusion), then it would be cheating and she should not forgive you.

I couldn't care less what orbiters hang around my girl. At the end of the day I have exclusive rights to her body, and we're both just fine with that.

two scoops
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(This post was last modified: 07-11-2019 03:52 AM by Barron.)
07-11-2019 03:49 AM
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Checkmat Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
(07-10-2019 09:32 PM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 01:09 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  Good responses in here.

I think my concern is meeting a girl who makes me happy, enriches my life, plan to start a family together, but she crosses a boundary or disrespects me one time and I feel compelled to be a man of my word and enforce the boundary by dumping her ass immediately.

In the past I have tolerated countless instances of disrespect and infidelity from LTRs. I am hyper sensitive to this topic and don’t ever want to feel like a cuck again.

The best way to deal with drama is what Blackdragon calls the "Soft Next." If it's the type of drama that violates your boundaries - whether that's lying, yelling at you, cursing at you, whatever - you go no-contact for 3-7 days, depending on the severity, ignoring any and all of her attempts to talk with you during that time frame.

Afterward you resume contact as if nothing has happened, and you never bring it up again. Believe me, she knows what she did wrong and she won't do it again if she's capable of learning. If she does the same thing over and over again despite these gentle attempts to teach her that you don't like it, then she's not the type you want to be with and you should just break up with her.

But a breakup on the first offense does seem like a bit of an over-reaction, especially if you have a history of being in a happy relationship together.

I have always thought this was a bit of a bitch move. It's basically giving your girl the silent treatment.

On the other hand, I have never actually used it. Have you? What has your experience been with soft nexting?

"There's no such thing as different but equal." -Dante Nero
07-11-2019 09:53 AM
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BlastbeatCasanova Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
(07-11-2019 03:49 AM)Barron Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 09:55 AM)Montrose Wrote:  My wife caught me cheating and she forgave me. If I caught her cheating I would likely forgive her. It doesn't make any sense to throw away our 20-year long common adventure for such petty matters -- but of course it depends on your priorities.

These are two different things entirely.
A man's body does not comprise the value that he brings to a relationship. He invests his time and money towards the family unit, first and foremost.

A woman's body does comprise the value that she brings to a relationship. She invests her body towards the family unit, first and foremost.

Therefore,
A man sleeping with a woman that is not his wife/gf is not him giving his value to another woman.
A woman sleeping with a man that is not her husband is her giving her value to another man.
*edit: and you'd be a fool to forgive her.

Thus it is right that she forgive you this. However, if she caught you investing your time and money in another woman (sex is a foregone conclusion), then it would be cheating and she should not forgive you.

I couldn't care less what orbiters hang around my girl. At the end of the day I have exclusive rights to her body, and we're both just fine with that.

One of the most interesting takes on the different standards for men and women I've seen. Screenshotted for future reference
07-11-2019 10:41 AM
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Geomann180 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
(07-10-2019 08:38 AM)Checkmat Wrote:  A) Is that boundary too unrealistic to expect any girl to follow?

1. You're not overreacting. It's a boundary you set. And she failed to respect. Boundary does not mean, "a line you can cross if you say sorry afterwards". Anyone who tells you you're overreacting is wrong on this one. Stick to your guns. Give her the boot. In fact, she crossed two boundaries - giving out her number to a guy who wanted to fuck her and lying about it. She would have continued to give out her number and continued to lie about it had you stayed with her. Eventually, she would have lost respect for you and broken up with you.

(07-10-2019 08:38 AM)Checkmat Wrote:  B) Is some degree of lying in a relationship unavoidable?
C) Is it realistic to expect 100% honesty from any girl?

2. It's unrealistic to expect 100% honesty from any human, I think. So some degree of lying in any of your relationships is probably unavoidable. But it's not unreasonable to expect honesty towards things that are important and to expect someone not to be a pathological liar. Usually, lying is maligned more for what is lied about and the implications of that rather than soley the lie. But this is all semantics. A better question to ask would be, "Is it reasonable to expect my girlfriend to be trustworthy?". The answer is yes, it is. If you can trust her to tell you the truth about your flaws, if she crosses a boundary, what she really things, to do "XYZ" which correspond to "YZX" boundaries, that sort of thing.

(07-10-2019 08:38 AM)Checkmat Wrote:  D) Should relationships be ended the moment someone breaks a boundary or lies to the other person?

3. It depends on you man. If she crosses a boundary which you've determined one to be a 'mortal sin', i.e. one that is grounds for a break up, then yes. If this boundary is more like, "please don't do this because it upsets me or bothers me", then no. But ultimately, it's you who decides this. Not her. Not Montrose. Not me. Not anyone on this forum. You.

I remind you again, this lady crossed two boundaries. She committed two wrongs. She crossed a boundary that was important and lied about it. Again, if she didn't get caught, she would have kept doing it. So maybe think of it this way, would you be comfortable continuing to date her if she kept doing this? No? Then you did the right thing.

(07-10-2019 08:38 AM)Checkmat Wrote:  My ex-LTR said, of me breaking up with her, "Yes I fucked up. But you are overreacting to throw everything away over this. You'll never find the perfect girl who never messes up."

4. She's right and wrong at the same time.

a) Yes. She's right that you'll never find a perfect girl who never messes up. No one is perfect and everyone messes up.

b) She's wrong in that, you can and will find a girl who will respect your boundaries. Assuming you clearly explain your boundaries to each girl and boot the ones who don't, you'll find a girl who respects you and your boundaries given enough time. Given enough time, you'll be able to screen out the immature girls who don't respect boundaries at the get go.

c) Bonus: She's just saying that to convince you that you are overreacting and will stay with her even though she messed up. The only correct response from her is, "I'm messed up and did the wrong thing. I'm sorry. If you give me one more chance, it won't happen again." Then continue along as normal until she slips up, if you want to. Rather than shaming you for having the standard in the first place. That's the logic of a child, not a woman. And remember, she crossed two boundaries, not just one. Notice she had no answer for lying other than "I'm not perfect".

(07-10-2019 08:38 AM)Checkmat Wrote:  So what do you all think? What standards and expectations are reasonable to expect from your girlfriend or wife? How much leeway and wiggle room should they have to be lie or be deceitful?

5. I think you did the right thing.

I think standards and expecations are reasonable if you expect the right thing from the right person and they know it. If you have all these expectations in your head but don't tell your girl or make sure she knows. It's on you if she trespasses. However, if she knows the rules and breaks them anyway - it's on her. And she gets the boot.

That said, it's inadvisable to date a stripper, a woman who regularly disingenuously flirts with men for thier attention and ultimately cash, a woman who regularly gets offered dick but doesn't accept all of them; and to expect to be either honest (read: trustworthy) or faithful.

As for boundaries and wiggle room. I'll make it simple. Boundaries getting crossed = end of relationship. The only real limit on what boundaries you can set are, what is humanly possible and what kind of woman you are dealing with. So you can't have a boundary be, "You are not allowed to breathe", but you can have a boundary, "You can't cheat on me [or put yourself in situations where it'd be easy to do]". Now, if were a cuckold like Jack Murphy, you might in fact be okay with her sleeping with other men. Or maybe she's not really your girlfriend, so you don't really care. But this girl was your girlfriend and crossed a boundary and lied about it.

As for lies and deceit? It's simple. Date girls you trust. If you're constantly wondering who she's with and why, if you wonder who that guy was and why she gave him her number, if you wonder why she's distant lately physically or emotionally and start wonder if she's cheating on you rather than if she's okay or what issue she has....

you don't trust her. And that's not a relationship worth having.

Don't get me wrong - I don't worry about whether or not my girl is going to cheat on me or bother to snoop through her phone/social media to catch her in the act. I know that if she truly wants to cheat on me, she can and will. But she knows that if she does and I find out about it, it's over.

TL: DR - You did the right thing. She's immature and deserves the boot for the boundary she crossed, lying about it, and I suspect maybe a few other things you didn't mention. You had a reasonable boundary and it's reasonable to expect to be able to trust a girlfriend/future wife. Reasonable boundaries, as long as they are in the realm of humanly possible are what you want. If you cannot abide a girlfriend doing something that is preventable, then it's a boundary. Own it. You may have less dates in the future, but you'll have more dates that will treat you the way you deserve. Women will treat you the way you let them.

G
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2019 12:31 PM by Geomann180.)
07-11-2019 12:30 PM
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nixtnext Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
I look at LTR through same lens as marriage, as someone I'd have in an LTR would effectively be auditioning for marriage.

I think in a nutshell if my LTR girlfriend did something that would make me feel like I couldn't trust her, I would almost certainly end the LTR. It's not important to me if other people would consider the "offense" serious as we're all built differently. Your phone number example would end it for me, but others might have greater tolerance.

I would also be wary of any counter-accusations thrown at me, such as "you'll never find a perfect girl". Your girl stepping out of line has nothing to with you wanting perfection and whether it can be found or not. Demanding a relationship that protects your dignity and emotions is not the same as wanting perfection.
07-11-2019 02:33 PM
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RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
(07-11-2019 09:53 AM)Checkmat Wrote:  I have always thought this was a bit of a bitch move. It's basically giving your girl the silent treatment.

You'll never get women to relate to us on our level. Believe me. I've tried. You have to communicate in a way they understand.
07-14-2019 11:12 AM
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MichaelWitcoff Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
(07-11-2019 09:53 AM)Checkmat Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 09:32 PM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 01:09 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  Good responses in here.

I think my concern is meeting a girl who makes me happy, enriches my life, plan to start a family together, but she crosses a boundary or disrespects me one time and I feel compelled to be a man of my word and enforce the boundary by dumping her ass immediately.

In the past I have tolerated countless instances of disrespect and infidelity from LTRs. I am hyper sensitive to this topic and don’t ever want to feel like a cuck again.

The best way to deal with drama is what Blackdragon calls the "Soft Next." If it's the type of drama that violates your boundaries - whether that's lying, yelling at you, cursing at you, whatever - you go no-contact for 3-7 days, depending on the severity, ignoring any and all of her attempts to talk with you during that time frame.

Afterward you resume contact as if nothing has happened, and you never bring it up again. Believe me, she knows what she did wrong and she won't do it again if she's capable of learning. If she does the same thing over and over again despite these gentle attempts to teach her that you don't like it, then she's not the type you want to be with and you should just break up with her.

But a breakup on the first offense does seem like a bit of an over-reaction, especially if you have a history of being in a happy relationship together.

I have always thought this was a bit of a bitch move. It's basically giving your girl the silent treatment.

On the other hand, I have never actually used it. Have you? What has your experience been with soft nexting?

I used it whenever necessary in my 20s, which was thankfully not that often (because I knew what kind of girl I liked and they were unlikely to give me drama.) It works far more often than not, but you also have to be willing to lose her in case it doesn't. And you have to have a strong will to pull it off; if you "cave" after a flurry of texts from her and engage in the drama, then you've essentially lost the frame forever with that particular girl.

Return Of Kings contributor and best-selling author of "On The Mason And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2019 12:58 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
07-16-2019 12:57 AM
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BlastbeatCasanova Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
This happened to me...once.

As he left the bar with my prospect I raised my glass to him and thought “finally - a worthy opponent.”

Then I went home and fapped, of course
07-16-2019 08:45 AM
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insickness Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
Quote:As for boundaries and wiggle room. I'll make it simple. Boundaries getting crossed = end of relationship.

Don't overreact. Think of it as training a dog rather than delivering an ultimatum. Punish her after smaller violations so that you rarely need to punish her in a large way. Let's say she's going out with her friends and says that she'll give you a call later on but she doesn't call. This doesn't mean you should dump her. It means you should punish her. Maybe for the entire next day when she calls or texts, don't respond. The pain and worry she experiences when you don't pick up the phone makes her think twice about doing something like this in the future.

You are the prize. She must earn your time and attention by treating you well. If she does not appreciate you, you take away the prize until she does. Make her worry about losing you. Demonstrate you can and will walk away from her. Dread game. If you give her enough dread and worry in smaller cases, you are less likely to have to deal with a larger issue.

But you must truly be willing to walk away from her if she does something bad enough, like cheat on you. Have enough respect for yourself to walk out the door. If you don't, she will sense it. If she's willing to cheat, there is something seriously fucked up with the power dynamic in your relationship, something that can't be fixed. You let her get away with too much. You are better off walking away and starting over with someone new.
07-16-2019 10:27 AM
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BlastbeatCasanova Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
^my last post was meant in jest for the “Do you ever get upset when you lose your girl to another guy?” thread
07-16-2019 01:24 PM
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
If she hadn't lied about the number, but instead confessed when you confronted her (I assume you had proof before you spoke to her) and apologized, then forgiveness from you would have been reasonable.

But since she lied about it, it shows she is perfectly willing to cheat and you have no obligation to support such bad behavior. Honestly even if you had forgiven her, she'd just do it again anyways because she got away with it. She'll think twice about being a skank with the next man.

Contributor at Return of Kings. I got banned from twatter, which is run by little bitches and weaklings. You can follow me on Gab.

Be sure to check out the easiest mining program around, FreedomXMR.
07-16-2019 08:19 PM
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Georgepithyou Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Lying, Boundaries, and LTRs
I think abstractly, we can understand that boundaries by definition always limit your possible choices. I would say that possessiveness stems from objectifying. They are restrictions set that lessen your agency, or imply you don't have it. I think you're describing an agreement - where you have agreed not to cheat, and she agrees to do the same
07-17-2019 11:14 PM
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