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Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
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captain_shane Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
Good looks only matter to a certain extent in game. The sexual hook point.

- Open
- Social Hook
- Sexual Hook
- Vibe
- Close

Model tier guys can bypass the Open, Social Hook, and Sexual Hook points just by having girls open them. But that's it. They still have to vibe with the girl and ultimately close her. This is why a lot of good looking dudes are shit with women or get terrible quality. It's because they don't even have to learn half the game.

A 5/10 dude that actually puts time into learning real game will out compete gameless models any day of the week. I fully believe that.
07-16-2019 10:44 PM
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UlugBeg Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
Captain Shane wrote: ‘A 5/10 dude that actually puts time into learning real game will out compete gameless models any day of the week. I fully believe that.’

Would go clubbing with some buddies, all of us were GL, not MM though. Once in a while, a fairly unattractive guy, Eddie, a friend of one of my friends, would go with us. He would generally do at least as well as us. I asked my friend how Eddie did so well. He shrugged and said “Eddie tries, we don’t.’
07-17-2019 12:52 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
Game still alive on RVF...

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Makes me feel

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07-17-2019 07:33 PM
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jalke63 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
Interesting post. My perception might be somewhat skewed since I have never gone clubbing at these "model-tier" clubs before, but a lot of this seems accurate.

I've always been a strong believer that in real life, personality > looks (outgoing personality to be precise).

In mobile apps like Tinder, looks > personality.

I don't see that many dudes cold approaching in real life. Most people get the nerves. I think the main reason why the women are not approaching because they have even bigger nerves than the dudes. They're mainly just waiting to be approached or just hang around their own friends. On online they can "swipe" instead, which creates this skewed effect where looks matter a lot more especially when they have much more options.
07-17-2019 08:52 PM
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FresnoState1776 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
(07-15-2019 07:59 PM)jselysianeagle Wrote:  Women 8+ almost never give obvious IOIs since they know what they’ve got; doubly so if they’re Maxim models as you’ve described. I have yet to meet a solid 8 of any age that didn’t know she was sought after.

I'm no Chad and to be absolutely honest I would class myself as not fat and slightly above average in the looks category. When I'm out and about I get IOI's from women, sometimes women who are really good looking. I'm the kind of guy who doesn't approach women who do not give me IOI's.

I'm really curious on your thoughts of IOI's from 8,9,10's since I am genetically not at the same level as they are and don't have the status or money to compensate. Do they not give obvious IOI's to anyone period and expect only courageous men to take a shot at them without sending IOI's their way? Do they only give obvious IOI's to uber Chad 9's and 10's? I wouldn't know, I'm only 5'11" and do not have a mega Chad jaw line so I am very curious.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2019 09:42 PM by FresnoState1776.)
07-17-2019 09:37 PM
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quaker13 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
(07-17-2019 09:37 PM)FresnoState1776 Wrote:  
(07-15-2019 07:59 PM)jselysianeagle Wrote:  Women 8+ almost never give obvious IOIs since they know what they’ve got; doubly so if they’re Maxim models as you’ve described. I have yet to meet a solid 8 of any age that didn’t know she was sought after.

I'm no Chad and to be absolutely honest I would class myself as not fat and slightly above average in the looks category. When I'm out and about I get IOI's from women, sometimes women who are really good looking. I'm the kind of guy who doesn't approach women who do not give me IOI's.

I'm really curious on your thoughts of IOI's from 8,9,10's since I am genetically not at the same level as they are and don't have the status or money to compensate. Do they not give obvious IOI's to anyone period and expect only courageous men to take a shot at them without sending IOI's their way? Do they only give obvious IOI's to uber Chad 9's and 10's? I wouldn't know, I'm only 5'11" and do not have a mega Chad jaw line so I am very curious.

I would consider myself a universal 8 and I think women who like tall muscular black guys in particular would consider me a 9. Regarding IOIs, I think Im qualified to speak on this, hotgirls most certainly give them. The point is they do not and will not EVER approach. Exception being they are coked up, drunk and rolling molly. That's why good looking guys don't live up to their potential because even an IOI isn't good enough for them to approach sometimes. The best looking girls I've known have told me under no circumstances will they approach a man. There response is "why would i approach, I'm not the man"
07-18-2019 09:09 AM
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
(07-18-2019 09:09 AM)quaker13 Wrote:  
(07-17-2019 09:37 PM)FresnoState1776 Wrote:  
(07-15-2019 07:59 PM)jselysianeagle Wrote:  Women 8+ almost never give obvious IOIs since they know what they’ve got; doubly so if they’re Maxim models as you’ve described. I have yet to meet a solid 8 of any age that didn’t know she was sought after.

I'm no Chad and to be absolutely honest I would class myself as not fat and slightly above average in the looks category. When I'm out and about I get IOI's from women, sometimes women who are really good looking. I'm the kind of guy who doesn't approach women who do not give me IOI's.

I'm really curious on your thoughts of IOI's from 8,9,10's since I am genetically not at the same level as they are and don't have the status or money to compensate. Do they not give obvious IOI's to anyone period and expect only courageous men to take a shot at them without sending IOI's their way? Do they only give obvious IOI's to uber Chad 9's and 10's? I wouldn't know, I'm only 5'11" and do not have a mega Chad jaw line so I am very curious.

I would consider myself a universal 8 and I think women who like tall muscular black guys in particular would consider me a 9. Regarding IOIs, I think Im qualified to speak on this, hotgirls most certainly give them. The point is they do not and will not EVER approach. Exception being they are coked up, drunk and rolling molly. That's why good looking guys don't live up to their potential because even an IOI isn't good enough for them to approach sometimes. The best looking girls I've known have told me under no circumstances will they approach a man. There response is "why would i approach, I'm not the man"

Yeah, I do kind of agree with this tbh. As I say, I've never been approached or get IOI's etc, but my wing is like a 9 to most girls. He gets huge IOI's from extremely hot girls (9's-10's), but they never approach him.
He DOES get approached by hot girls though (like 8's) although ONLY at night after a few glasses of wine, not in the day time/when they're sober.

And yeah, I don't think i've ever seen my wing approach a girl in the 15 years i've known him lol. I honestly think he thinks it's beneath him, tbh. (God knows what he thinks of me when I approach about 25 girls in one night! haha). Or maybe he's secretly shy. I don't know.

But still, to me the thing is that I can't deny that he needs MINIMAL game (read 'none' lol) in order to bang hot girls, though. The game changes quite a lot for good looking dudes. Little things like keeping the convo going. If you aren't her type, she just doesn't contribute as she doesn't want to encourage you and sets fizzle out so fast (or never reac the hook point) as it's hard to carry convo for both of you, whereas he can sit there like an aspie, and SHE will keep introducing new topics etc. Also things like escalating. It's hard to escalate sometimes if you sense zero attraction from the girl, whereas with him, it's SO obvious that she likes him (often she'll actually escalate first in some way) that he can escalate with ease, knowing he won't get rejected or creep her out etc. Basically the game becomes extremely easy.

I very much believe in 'game' and the importance of social skills and leading and being fun and outcome independent and all the rest of it, although I still think that without her being physically attracted, that set will never go anywhere. Basically like Mark Manson says ''Game is played on the 'yes girl' ''

My journal : https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-57783.html
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2019 09:24 AM by subterfuge.)
07-18-2019 09:20 AM
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captain_shane Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
Mark Manson's a faggot who sold out to the mainstream. "Models", get the fuck out of here with that anti-game book. If you're only going after "yes" girls, you aren't playing the game.

There are only 2 things you should remember when going out.

1. Girls spend shit tons of time getting ready and looking good. They want cool guys like me to talk to them.
2. Assume attraction.

Dudes that don't approach are essentially women. You think your great great grandfather had approach anxiety? Haha
07-18-2019 11:52 AM
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Belgrano Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
(07-18-2019 11:52 AM)captain_shane Wrote:  You think your great great grandfather had approach anxiety?

For the vast majority of people the answer to that would definitely be:
"Yes."

Being able to chat up random women without suffering social ramifications and, quite likely, physical harm is a rather new development.
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2019 01:09 PM by Belgrano.)
07-18-2019 12:54 PM
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FullThrottleTX Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
(07-18-2019 11:52 AM)captain_shane Wrote:  Mark Manson's a faggot who sold out to the mainstream. "Models", get the fuck out of here with that anti-game book. If you're only going after "yes" girls, you aren't playing the game.

There are only 2 things you should remember when going out.

1. Girls spend shit tons of time getting ready and looking good. They want cool guys like me to talk to them.
2. Assume attraction.

Dudes that don't approach are essentially women. You think your great great grandfather had approach anxiety? Haha

1. Maybe. A lot of girls today have "girls nights out" -- they aren't looking for guys at bars. Why would they with easy thirsty guys on dating apps?
2. Psyching yourself into self confidence isn't going to necessarily make her attracted to you.
3. This is stupid. Your great great grandfather probably married his high school sweethart or someone he was set up with at church and never paroozed bars for random sluts...

Approaching isn't important, making a connection is important.
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2019 01:16 PM by FullThrottleTX.)
07-18-2019 01:14 PM
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nathaniel trevor Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
(07-18-2019 01:14 PM)FullThrottleTX Wrote:  
(07-18-2019 11:52 AM)captain_shane Wrote:  Mark Manson's a faggot who sold out to the mainstream. "Models", get the fuck out of here with that anti-game book. If you're only going after "yes" girls, you aren't playing the game.

There are only 2 things you should remember when going out.

1. Girls spend shit tons of time getting ready and looking good. They want cool guys like me to talk to them.
2. Assume attraction.

Dudes that don't approach are essentially women. You think your great great grandfather had approach anxiety? Haha

1. Maybe. A lot of girls today have "girls nights out" -- they aren't looking for guys at bars. Why would they with easy thirsty guys on dating apps?
2. Psyching yourself into self confidence isn't going to necessarily make her attracted to you.
3. This is stupid. Your great great grandfather probably married his high school sweethart or someone he was set up with at church and never paroozed bars for random sluts...

Approaching isn't important, making a connection is important.

Don't waste your time. They are hopelessly convinced that (((game))) is going to make up for looksmaxing. Women want superior genetic males. End of story.
07-18-2019 04:20 PM
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lunchmoney Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
That is Miami nightlife in general. A friend of mine is a personal trainer and a former track and field athlete in college. When we go out in Miami there is always that one spot that no one is pulling unless your very rich or a NBA/NFL player.
07-18-2019 04:20 PM
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captain_shane Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
(07-18-2019 04:20 PM)nathaniel trevor Wrote:  
(07-18-2019 01:14 PM)FullThrottleTX Wrote:  
(07-18-2019 11:52 AM)captain_shane Wrote:  Mark Manson's a faggot who sold out to the mainstream. "Models", get the fuck out of here with that anti-game book. If you're only going after "yes" girls, you aren't playing the game.

There are only 2 things you should remember when going out.

1. Girls spend shit tons of time getting ready and looking good. They want cool guys like me to talk to them.
2. Assume attraction.

Dudes that don't approach are essentially women. You think your great great grandfather had approach anxiety? Haha

1. Maybe. A lot of girls today have "girls nights out" -- they aren't looking for guys at bars. Why would they with easy thirsty guys on dating apps?
2. Psyching yourself into self confidence isn't going to necessarily make her attracted to you.
3. This is stupid. Your great great grandfather probably married his high school sweethart or someone he was set up with at church and never paroozed bars for random sluts...

Approaching isn't important, making a connection is important.

Don't waste your time. They are hopelessly convinced that (((game))) is going to make up for looksmaxing. Women want superior genetic males. End of story.

I thought game denying losers like this got banned? Guess not now that the forum has changed. Incels.co 2.0 I suppose.

Good luck with everything Roosh. Peace out.
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2019 04:32 PM by captain_shane.)
07-18-2019 04:30 PM
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nathaniel trevor Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
^ Apparently some people aren't privy to #logosrising and are still clinging to their degenerate behavior pushed by ((pua))).

For the good of your soul please look into EMJ.
07-18-2019 04:37 PM
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captain_shane Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
(07-18-2019 04:37 PM)nathaniel trevor Wrote:  ^ Apparently some people aren't privy to #logosrising and are still clinging to their degenerate behavior pushed by ((pua))).

For the good of your soul please look into EMJ.

Get laid incel.
07-18-2019 04:39 PM
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Manbeline Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
I've seen too many guys, good looking and fit guys, get turned away with ease around where I live. This is a big city, and here, the women know they are getting attention without ever having to fuck any of the guys. Tbh, I only see those who came on dates going home with anyone. I'm probably one of the few guys who go out compared to the thousands who might go home with a girl. Quite frankly, I don't go out to bang girls. I go out to mess with them. There is a luxury when you are good looking and have the right stuff. You can play the same game they play and it works. It works because the biggest lie men have every heard is that women are the ones who own the floor. Nuh-uh. You own the floor. You're the provider, the big bull.

It's a shame when I learned I held attraction power. My ego went up by a factor of ten that day. I use to be such a geek, but even back in the day, I was told I had nice looking features. So when I got fit and got a clue, I supposed I just stepped into the role naturally. Good looks do help, but in the end, you still have to initiate. I am still going through that phase myself where I am learning my place in the food chain of men and women. The results I'm getting are slowly pushing me toward the spot where I'll soon be able to subdue any girl I want. I know this sounds very close to the old fashioned PUA, but it really does feel like I'm going through an awakening. My income keeps climbing, my appearance keeps climbing, and it's doing something to me mentally that is both fascinating and scary at the same time.

But that is why I am on this forum, so I can learn to harness and control myself before I get into destructive tendencies.
07-18-2019 05:44 PM
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nathaniel trevor Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
(07-18-2019 04:39 PM)captain_shane Wrote:  
(07-18-2019 04:37 PM)nathaniel trevor Wrote:  ^ Apparently some people aren't privy to #logosrising and are still clinging to their degenerate behavior pushed by ((pua))).

For the good of your soul please look into EMJ.

Get laid incel.

High quality dialogue there.

You don't seem to get it.

Roosh has moved in a new direction which hopefully leaves behind the degenerate lustful idiots far back in the rear view mirror. You can either get on board, for the good of your eternal soul, or forever embrace your hellbound destiny. The choice is yours.
07-18-2019 06:31 PM
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chadkahn Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
Looks matter big time

if you are 8/10 or higher you will get laid just existing.

END OF STORY.
07-19-2019 01:42 AM
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nixtnext Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
[/QUOTE]
I'm really curious on your thoughts of IOI's from 8,9,10's since I am genetically not at the same level as they are and don't have the status or money to compensate. Do they not give obvious IOI's to anyone period and expect only courageous men to take a shot at them without sending IOI's their way? Do they only give obvious IOI's to uber Chad 9's and 10's? I wouldn't know, I'm only 5'11" and do not have a mega Chad jaw line so I am very curious.
[/QUOTE]

I find one man's 8 is another man's 10 and vice versa so let's just call them attractive girls, but I don't think there's any huge difference in how these girls behave. I find that wherever I go a girl will invariably look, likely smile, possibly make it easier to approach by coming closer, rarely "open" me. But every situation is still a little unique because maybe:

- She likes they way you look
- She's having a down day and you look like a fun guy (the perfect antidote)
- She's just curious
- She's drawn to you but she couldn't possibly talk to you because her friends are nearby and it's whatever girls night
- She's confused and gives you attention even if her boyfriend who she has no intention of leaving is in the bathroom
- she may be married and want to get with you because she's pissed at her cheating husband
etc etc etc

You don't really know anything unless you talk to her, just like she doesn't know anything about you. These creatures do get a lot of attention but they're no dating experts themselves and can do confused/confusing things. They're girls like every other.

The only constant I've found is that if you like someone and approach, you'll find out. If you don't, you won't. You may find out that once you "open" her you don't really want to stay here. It's not a get-laid-with-a-10-at-all-costs game and if it is then you're valuing yourself down whether you're the king of Chads or average Joe Burger.
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2019 02:52 AM by nixtnext.)
07-19-2019 02:52 AM
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Kid Twist Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
(07-18-2019 11:52 AM)captain_shane Wrote:  Dudes that don't approach are essentially women. You think your great great grandfather had approach anxiety? Haha

No, she took a boat to the new world at age 19 and married him, age 40.

Times have changed --- and not for the better.

ps- yes, I said "boat". Back then, culture had frame.

Get your passport ready!
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2019 10:52 PM by Kid Twist.)
07-19-2019 10:50 PM
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Kentemo Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
Looks matter, of course. I still believe an average guy with game does A LOT better than a good looking guy lacking those skills.

I've been on this forum for about 1.5 year (on and off), and respect the new way Roosh is going with this forum.
Still, there must be a way to keep game going? I'm not just talking in manipulating girls in having sex with you, but just increasing your chances through confidence, knowing what to say, when to say it, building attraction, and just anything to increase your chances.

I am working on income and physique (running a marathon by the end of the year), and game is just the only skill lacking, and too good to just deny its existence tbh.
(This post was last modified: 07-20-2019 11:02 AM by Kentemo.)
07-20-2019 11:00 AM
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BlastbeatCasanova Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
Had to chime in after hanging out with an old friend a few nights ago. In some areas of life he is on point: he is conventionally good looking, tall, has good style, works out, has his own business that is doing very well. Doesn't have to work that much, can kind of go off and do what he wants. Sounds like a pretty good recipe for a dude who could kill it with women.

I guess he's been through some hard stuff over the last few years, coupled with living with his mom and siblings to help out (which I've told him has been detrimental to his development as a person despite his good intentions of helping them financially). Throw in a few bad trips with some psychedelics and he is way less confident than the version of him I knew in college.

Anyway:

He approaches this girl at a social function with absolutely zero calibration - his opener was "hey, give me your number." When she said "...why?" he said "so I can like call you or text you." I guess because he is stylish and good looking she acquiesced. I think he was intending to take her out to dinner (game fail #1) but she invited him over to her place to cook and hang out instead - she obviously wanted him and was making it easier - he had it in the bag. He told me they cooked and ate dinner and are flirting and dancing and start making out. He then fails so hard - he asks her "Do you want to have sex?" I'm pretty sure everyone on this forum understands how bad this is. I practically facepalmed myself into a brain hemorrhage. As he's telling me this I'm trying to not be too hard on him and give him some tips, like how you can't play all your cards like that and that you have to lead without words, lead the woman in the dance of seduction.

She still took him up to her room, where he asks for permission to perform oral (apologies if this violates the rules, trying to relay the story without breaking them). She was like "sure..." but then changed her mind.

My TL;DR belabored point is that while guys harp on looks a lot, they really only get you in the door. Game and calibration is what gets you past the finish line. I'd put my money on a dude with 6 looks but solid game vs a dude with 8 looks and shit game any day.

Although it goes without saying that a combo of good looks and solid game are lethal.
(This post was last modified: 08-03-2019 11:21 AM by BlastbeatCasanova.)
08-03-2019 11:19 AM
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N°6 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
My conclusion from quaker's OP is that women don't approach men they like. In this case, the models intimidated them and secondly, rejection is more difficult for women to handle than it is for men.

The models have invested a lot of time to make themselves look more attractive. This is on the feminine side of things, bordering on the beautiful mice experiment. Some were probably gay, some probably narcissistic - both are anti-Game.
08-04-2019 01:55 AM
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The Stronger Sex Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Final words for guys who think good looks is all you need
Newsflash: many male models are gay.
08-04-2019 05:21 AM
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