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BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?"
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WalterBlack Offline
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BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?"
Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?

Quote:When a man has penetrative sex with a woman without her consent, that's rape. But what if a woman makes a man have penetrative sex with her, without his consent? That's not rape under the law of England and Wales, but the author of a new study of the phenomenon says perhaps it should be.

Dr Siobhan Weare of Lancaster University Law School carried out the first research into forced penetration in the UK in 2016-7, gathering information from more than 200 men via an online survey.

Her latest study, published this week - based on one-to-one interviews with 30 men between May 2018 and July 2019 - explores in greater detail the context in which forced penetration occurs, its consequences, and the response of the criminal justice system.

All the participants were anonymised, but I will call one of them John.

John says the first sign that something was wrong was when his partner started to self-harm. After a particularly frightening incident he rushed her to A&E for treatment. The couple spent hours discussing possible psychological causes.

About six months later instead of harming herself, she trained her sights on John.

"I was sitting in the living room and she just came in from the kitchen, punched me very hard on the nose and ran off giggling," John says. "The violence then started happening quite regularly."

She tried to get help from her GP, John says. She had some counselling, and she was referred to a psychologist - though didn't attend the appointment.

She'd come home from her job "and basically demand sex", he says.

"She would be violent, and it got to the stage that I dreaded her coming back from work."

On one occasion John woke up to find that his partner had handcuffed his right arm to the metal bed frame. Then she started hitting him on the head with a loudspeaker from the stereo system beside the bed, tied up his other arm with some nylon rope and tried to force him to have sex.

Scared and in pain, John was unable to comply with her demands - so she beat him again and left him chained up for half an hour, before returning and freeing him. Afterwards she refused to talk about what had happened.

Not long after that she became pregnant, and the violence abated. But a few months after the baby was born, John again woke one night to discover that he was being handcuffed to the bed.

Then, he says, his partner force-fed him Viagra and gagged him.

"There was nothing I could do about it," he says.

"Later I went and sat in the shower for I dunno how long… I eventually went downstairs. The first thing she said to me when I went into the room was, 'What's for dinner?'"

When John has tried to tell people about it, he says he has often met with disbelief.

"I've been asked why I didn't leave the house. Well, it was my house that I'd bought for my kids. And the financial side as well, I was so locked into the relationship financially," he says.

"I still get disbelief because it's like, 'Well why didn't you hit her back?' I get that quite a lot. Well that's a lot easier said than done.

"I wish I'd run away a lot sooner."


Aspects of John's story are repeated in the experiences of some of the other men Dr Weare has interviewed. One of her findings is that the perpetrator in "forced-to-penetrate" (FTP) cases is often a female partner or ex-partner (her research focuses only on forced penetration involving men and women), and that the experience is frequently one element in a wider pattern of domestic abuse.

The experience of disbelief is also mentioned by other interviewees.

"You must have enjoyed it or you'd have reported it sooner," one man says he was told by a police officer.

Another participant said: "We're scared to talk about it and embarrassed, and when we do talk about it, we're not believed, because we're men. How can a man possibly be abused? Look at him, he's a man."

Weare's other findings include:
  • Men are often ashamed to report FTP experiences - they may report domestic abuse without mentioning the sexual abuse
  • The mental health impact can be severe, including PTSD, thoughts of suicide and sexual dysfunction
  • Some men report being repeatedly victimised - some experienced childhood sexual abuse, some had endured varying types of sexual violence from different perpetrators, including men
  • Many had overwhelmingly negative perceptions of the police, criminal justice system, and the law

One myth Weare's research dispels is that forced penetration is impossible because men are physically stronger than women. Another is that men view all sexual opportunities with women as positive.

A third myth is that if men have an erection they must want sex. In fact, Weare says, "an erection is purely a physiological response to stimulus".


"Men can obtain and sustain an erection even if they're scared, angry, terrified etc," she says.

"There's also research that shows women can respond sexually when they are raped (e.g. have an orgasm) because their body is responding physiologically. This is an issue for both male and female victims that is not discussed enough, but there is clear evidence in this area."


A number of the participants in Weare's 2017 study reported FTP experiences after getting extremely drunk or high, and being unable to stop what was happening.


One of those interviewed for the new study describes going home with a woman after a night out clubbing, and blacking out after being given what he suspects was a date rape drug. He says he was then forced to engage in non-consensual sex.

Another describes being coerced into sex while working at a holiday camp one summer, while he was a student. A female co-worker had discovered a letter he had written to a boyfriend, and threatened to out him as gay unless he slept with her.


She thought that if he had sex with a woman "this would transform my life and I would be straight", he says. As he had not come out to his friends, family or co-workers he felt that he had no choice but to comply.

Weare says that most of the participants in the latest study regarded their forced-to-penetrate experiences as "rape", and some were frustrated that it would not count as rape under the law of England and Wales. There was frustration also that British society would most likely not recognise it as rape.

"Talking about the fact that your ex-partner used to get drunk and force herself on you, rape you essentially, it's like most blokes' fantasy isn't it?" said one of the participants.

"Down the pub, you know, she gets a bit drunk, she gets a bit frisky 'Yay! Oh that would be fantastic! I would love a bit of that!' No you really wouldn't, you bloody wouldn't. It's not the way that you think it is."

In one of Weare's papers - titled "Oh, you're a guy, how could you be raped by a woman, that makes no sense" - she points out that in several US states rape is broadly defined as non-consensual sexual intercourse, and that in the Australian state of Victoria a specific offence exists of "rape by compelling penetration".


One of eight recommendations made in the latest study is that reform of the law of rape to include FTP cases requires "serious consideration".

There's a 20 minute podcast about this.

What do you guys think of this?
07-25-2019 02:11 AM
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Captainstabbin Offline
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?"
My thoughts - John sounds like a pussy.

Quote:After a particularly frightening incident he rushed her to A&E for treatment. The couple spent hours discussing possible psychological causes.

At this point, leave her and never look back. Problem solved.
07-25-2019 02:26 AM
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?"
I'm not saying this can't happen because there's plenty of cases in the states where it was prosecuted.
In those cases the guys were drunk or under the influence of drugs sometimes they were slipped drugs without their knowledge.

In this guys case he should've have never been with her in the first place. There was probably signs that he ignored.

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07-25-2019 02:53 AM
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Horus Offline
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that r...
Although it's not a good thing for a woman to "rape" a man, it's several magnitudes worse for a man to rape a woman. Any man who allows himself to be "raped" or beaten by a woman is a pussy.
07-25-2019 03:50 AM
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crystalcastle Offline
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that r...
(07-25-2019 03:50 AM)Horus Wrote:  Any man who allows himself to be "raped" or beaten by a woman is a pussy.

That was my thought. We're the one with the tool. Although lately with all these trannies about...
07-25-2019 03:57 AM
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Horus Offline
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that r...
And even if some hideous monster somehow manages to forcibly envelop a man, it's not such a traumatic experience that a shower won't fix. When a woman is forcibly penetrated by a man, it will likely scar her for many years or even life.
07-25-2019 04:04 AM
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Rigsby Offline
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that r...
(07-25-2019 03:50 AM)Horus Wrote:  Although it's not a good thing for a woman to "rape" a man, it's several magnitudes worse for a man to rape a woman. Any man who allows himself to be "raped" or beaten by a woman is a pussy.

Man is 5'1".

The six women are 6'1".

The man has been drugged.

The women are out to dominate, humiliate, cause havoc.

And all very sober.



You are obviously not a predator. I am. I can think of a hundred and one ways I could get even the biggest buck tied up in the back of my SUV - Quentin Tarantino style. May God have mercy on his soul after that point.

The bigger they are, the harder they fall for it.

If I wanted to go out catching young girls or big powerful men, I'd use the same bait: very sexy powerful women. Or very innocent sexy women.

Sometimes I think the people that post on this forum have never done a gedanken in abduction rape. You need to do it. To protect yourself and to protect your wife and to protect your children. To protect yourself.

Code Red at all times.

It's easy to capture people and kidnap them. The hard part is getting the bait to do it. Then the even harder part is having a place to store them while you work out what to do with them.

Lots of people/kids/women abducted every day.

Most are killed after a few minutes of fun. Some are kept for years, nurtured, beyond anything even Quentin Tarantino could conjure up. They are fed well. They are educated. They are still sex slaves.

Dungeons of castles. Silos in the middle of nowhere. Full of sex slaves. Young girls. Bull men. Take your pick. Fed well. Looked over. They will never escape. Some people, very powerful people have the resources to do this. And the odd 'sacrifice' keeps the rest of them in check but really, it's not a bad life: video games, gourmet food, company, drugs, but no internet mind you!

I promise you, there are some 6'9" black warriors now deep underground, chained to some kind of contraption, who will never again go free. They are now just playthings. To be used by both men, women and young kids.

These fuckers are sick.

And no matter what sick scenario you can think up, they have thought of it 10 times over and enacted it.

Get some situational awareness.

Learn some theory of mind.

Being big or strong does not stop you from being captured and put in to the real life hunger games.

Situational awareness motherfucker. Even if you are black belt 6'9" of badness on the street. I could capture you. No problem.

You really don't want to end up in a gimp suit in Rigsby's basement, I promise you that!

:-)

All you need is bait. Bait can be paid for.



I get what you are saying about men being men and all that - I agree.

But you know that sweet little thing that you thought you just picked up in the bar - but really picked you up? The one that put those 2 Rohypnol in your beer? Just as she called the taxi as you were heading home from the bar, unable to believe your luck?

Yeah, she works for me motherfucker.

Now you is gonna wake up, tied up, 3 days later, totally disorientated.

You won't even remember how you got there. And you certainly won't remember anything when you leave.

Killing gimps is for pussies. It's messy. There's no need.

6 weeks of total drug brainwashing. I promise you, you will not know your own name, or the name of your mother, when you finish with my regime. You won't know how you got there, and you won't know how you got back to the edge of the road, where we picked you up in the first place.

A sweet smile, she had. Such a nice girl. "Do you want a lift".


Not even going to get in to the Sperm stealers in Africa. Another time.


Anyhoos....

Did you want to come 'round to my place for a drink?

It'll be fun.
07-25-2019 05:13 AM
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Rigsby Offline
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that r...
(07-25-2019 04:04 AM)Horus Wrote:  And even if some hideous monster somehow manages to forcibly envelop a man, it's not such a traumatic experience that a shower won't fix. When a woman is forcibly penetrated by a man, it will likely scar her for many years or even life.

See my previous post.

Then say the same thing!

it's not such a traumatic experience that a shower won't fix



You've never been for drinks at my place have you?


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07-25-2019 05:18 AM
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?"
Dude got violently punched on the face, and stayed with the girl without saying a word.
A woman raped a pussy, not a Man.

Too much soy in the food.
07-25-2019 06:04 AM
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?"
Simple answer; yes.
Explained answer; how did you let it get to that point ?????

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07-25-2019 06:22 AM
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?"
Put on the thinking caps.

What happens when you get raised with expectations that you must do whatever it takes to keep your family intact (remember, every split of a family is blamed on the man) and the further expectations that violence against women is never acceptable, not even in self defense. Add bottled water. Soy. Everything that reduces your ability to resist aggression.

What happens when a woman is raised with the belief that all men are pigs and get whatever they deserve. That women are the master race and are welcome to do pretty much whatever they like. That because women in the past suffered some kind of transgressions that karma owes future male victims any manner of misdeeds that come upon them.

What do we know about how women view men without a pimp hand. Do they merely dislike them? Do they merely despise them? No. It's in their DNA to see weak men dead.

This scenario is unlikely in the sense that it's unlikely to win the lottery, but someone out there just happens to be the (un)lucky schmuck who picks the right numbers. In this case it's another one of societies reverse-lottery scenarios. A particularly low-T, K-select man indoctrinated relentlessly with (((propaganda))) shacks up with a particularly high T r-select woman also indoctrinated relentlessly with (((propaganda))). In the vast majority of instances the lack of any one ingredient will result in something less bizarre and unpleasant than this particular outcome. This man just happens to be the latest reverse-lottery winner of the sick society he lives in.

"Here go I but for the grace of God."

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
07-25-2019 08:25 AM
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Rigsby Offline
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that r...
Put another way:

But your honour, he was asking for it - he was wearing a short mini-skirt and high-heels, the little minx!

Case closed!
07-25-2019 08:56 AM
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fmman Offline
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?"
Well if these lefties and feminists want equal treatment, then yes, why not change the law. The law is far too swung in the womans favour against the man as it is now. Fathers can't see their kids, the wife takes all your money and the house , its about time things changed. Consent forms for sex all that crap, if John is a pussy .... no he isn't. As just mentioned, once you are drugged up and overpowered you are at the mercy of your captor regardless of their sex
07-25-2019 09:12 AM
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scotian Offline
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that r...
I was technically raped by a fatty in a work camp about a decade ago. Long story short, my buddy and I were drinking heavily with these two girls in the fatty’s room and I passed out on her bed. When I came to my pants were down and she had my cock in her mouth, before I knew it the fat hog was riding me (not sure if she put a condom on or not) and in my drunken stupor I just let it happen. From what I recall post coitus I just got up and left, went back to my camp room, fell back asleep then woke up with a terrible hangover but still told my work mates about it and we all had a laugh.

I’m a survivor guys- #Metoo

Don’t sweat the petty things, pet the sweaty things.
07-25-2019 10:26 AM
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?"
Actually you can't technically give consent when intoxicated so I suspect you've been raped about a thousand times, Scotian. Laugh

You should write a book. "The most raped man in Canada." That's a title that will grab attention. Just fill it with humblebragging disguised as survivor stories.

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07-25-2019 11:09 AM
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Harem Scarem Offline
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?"
The answer to the question, purely on principle, is "obviously". That this is not yet the case in the UK is yet another example of how it's a clown country. Although supposedly women forcibly penetrating men can be prosecuted under other offences that carry the same maximum sentences. So this legal status in the UK is possibly the result of old-school chivalry rather than feminism. Maybe UK users can clarify this.

I can imagine that in the short- to mid-term, SJWs will play word games with "rape" in the same way that they did with "racism", if not legally, then at least morally and culturally. Their view is that white people cannot be the victims of racism, because racism is a system of oppression perpetrated by whites against nonwhite victims. If a nonwhite person uses racial slurs against white people, that is not nice, but it's not "racism" in this new definition. By the same token, the idea will soon enter the mainstream (or maybe it already has) that a man can never be the victim of rape by a woman, because rape (and "rape culture") is part of a system of oppression by men against women. If a woman penetrates a man against his will, that is not cool, it can be assault, but never rape.

The whole semantic game would however be irrelevant if female-on-male rape and violence were limited to extreme cases as described above, e.g. a bunch of predatory women conspiring to drug a man, chain him up in a dungeon, and rape him, i.e. horror-movie stuff or the games that are played by the Epstein/Clinton networks of this world against men, women, and childen alike. But what we're increasingly looking at in Western society is men being overpowered by their female partners, either physically or by being unwilling to use violence in self-defence even against a violently aggressive wife. And then they basically play the role of the battered wife. I do not see how any legal change (which would of course only be fair) can change this degeneration of Western man. The worst match-up in the world must be the sunken-chested soy-fed nu-male shacking up with a high-T woman-beast hybrid. I can feel pity for such a man or disgust for him, but in any case it's going to take centuries to repair the damage that has been done to the Western peoples.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2019 11:19 AM by Harem Scarem.)
07-25-2019 11:16 AM
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that r...
(07-25-2019 11:09 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Actually you can't technically give consent when intoxicated so I suspect you've been raped about a thousand times, Scotian. Laugh

You should write a book. "The most raped man in Canada." That's a title that will grab attention. Just fill it with humblebragging disguised as survivor stories.

A thousand times? More like a hundred thousand times bro!

Don’t sweat the petty things, pet the sweaty things.
07-25-2019 11:34 AM
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?"
Women are always redefining rape and the circumstances of rape.

Every Single Man I have spoken to about this has, at some point in their life, woken up to find a women performing a sexual act upon them.

Which would be accepted as rape or sexual assault if it was the other way round.

so...
99/100% of adult males appear to be rape victims. (anecdotally)

as for the examples at the top of the thread, no-one wants to end up like that guy, probably hardly anyone born ever will,
but if he's being tied up beaten and fed viagra then its rape.
07-25-2019 11:55 AM
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?"
Lots of pussypasses being given out on this thread.

For the argument that male on female vs female on male rape is totally different. Maybe in fiction. Think about it. How many women are grabbed on the street at night by a stranger, dragged into an alleyway, and raped? Just to be pragmatic, think about the logistics. It has to be insanely difficult to pull off. And it hardly ever happens.

What is the real male on female "rape" scenario? Regret sex, face-saving sex, drunk sex, feeling obligated because you've made him spend $300 on you for nothing sex, revenge. These aren't traumatic events. I've read enough and talked to enough people (primarily teens due to my job) about their traumatic life experiences. They really don't like talking about them...because it was genuinely unpleasant to relive. Instead, we have women who LOOOVE to talk about their sexual assaults. I don't like talking about my favorite college losing a gimme game that would have given it a national title shot and we have women broadcasting their "rapes." Please.
07-25-2019 12:58 PM
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that r...
(07-25-2019 12:58 PM)la bodhisattva Wrote:  Lots of pussypasses being given out on this thread.

For the argument that male on female vs female on male rape is totally different. Maybe in fiction. Think about it. How many women are grabbed on the street at night by a stranger, dragged into an alleyway, and raped? Just to be pragmatic, think about the logistics. It has to be insanely difficult to pull off. And it hardly ever happens.

What is the real male on female "rape" scenario? Regret sex, face-saving sex, drunk sex, feeling obligated because you've made him spend $300 on you for nothing sex, revenge. These aren't traumatic events. I've read enough and talked to enough people (primarily teens due to my job) about their traumatic life experiences. They really don't like talking about them...because it was genuinely unpleasant to relive. Instead, we have women who LOOOVE to talk about their sexual assaults. I don't like talking about my favorite college losing a gimme game that would have given it a national title shot and we have women broadcasting their "rapes." Please.

I'm of the opinion that more than 90% of rape cases or rape allegations we hear about are bullshit, and I based that estimation on having had a wild and varied sex life. Women are asking us to believe they're going into strange men's homes and then suddenly assaulted out of the clear blue sky, penetrated against their will. Looking back on all of the dates I've ever been on, if I were to have forced any of those women to have sex with me, it would have been extraordinarily difficult.

Let's just say I managed to get them home, or they had known me for long enough that they were in comfortable to be alone with me, it would have been damn near impossible for me to force myself on them without them being able to simply leap up or leave or scream or do any number of things to get me off them. I have no idea how I'd be able to pin them down for long enough with my weight to effectively do anything, and to make things even more wildly believable, some women have alleged (like Rose McGowan or Mike Tyson's accuser) that they were given head against their will...! How do you actually do that successfully to an unwilling participant? The only way I'd be able to "rape" would have been with the threat of bodily harm at the end of a knife or gun.

Women know exactly what's going on, and if they're not into you, they're not doing wildly inappropriate shit like going home with you and just ending up in bed with you naked or spending the night in your dorm room or going upstairs to find you at a party, or any number of scenarios we're asked to believe were entirely innocent on the woman's part.

Date rape is largely a myth.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2019 01:26 PM by griffinmill.)
07-25-2019 01:23 PM
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RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?"
All you can do is honk.

“There is no global anthem, no global currency, no certificate of global citizenship. We pledge allegiance to one flag, and that flag is the American flag!” -DJT
07-25-2019 04:30 PM
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pitbullowner Offline
Robin
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Post: #22
RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that r...
(07-25-2019 08:25 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  This scenario is unlikely in the sense that it's unlikely to win the lottery, but someone out there just happens to be the (un)lucky schmuck who picks the right numbers. In this case it's another one of societies reverse-lottery scenarios. A particularly low-T, K-select man indoctrinated relentlessly with (((propaganda))) shacks up with a particularly high T r-select woman also indoctrinated relentlessly with (((propaganda))). In the vast majority of instances the lack of any one ingredient will result in something less bizarre and unpleasant than this particular outcome. This man just happens to be the latest reverse-lottery winner of the sick society he lives in.


Didn't think of it that way. Yeah, I guess I could see how unfortunate this dude really is.

Thank God for the red pill

I was on a path to destroy my baser instincts and pivoted right around 2014 . It's been an interesting turn of events relearning my world around me.
But even blue pill me back then still would have thought that was a bit extreme.

Your actions speak louder than your words, son.
-My father, R.I.P.

My newly crafted Twitter handle
07-25-2019 04:55 PM
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Zep Offline
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Post: #23
RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that r...
Meh.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2019 07:38 PM by Zep.)
07-25-2019 07:03 PM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #24
RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?"
There are Youtube videos of men who have been sexually coerced in one way or the other, and when you hear them talk, the pain is real.

Often ends up being the woman saying she will claim he raped her and call his boss or commanding officer if he doesn't comply. Even Mark Manson used to have a sexual coercion story on his site, which was obviously upsetting to him so he hamstered away his feelings in the article, and eventually deleted it. (It's called "My Fat Chick Story" for any sleuths out there.)

What if you are young, religious, saving yourself for marriage, and some woman drugs or coerces you into something? Is it so hard to believe that for some men sex is actually sacred, and to have another person walk in and tramp all over you deepest and most intimate plans might be upsetting.

Maybe it isn't rape in the same way that forcible rape is rape. Maybe you could call it sexual coercion. Still, being coerced to do something you don't want to do, particularly the most intimate thing a person could do, is not a pretty picture.

I would listen to Rigsby and bodisattva on this one.

Men have emotional lives, and emotional lives can be damaged, and size has nothing to do with conning or manipulating someone.

Uncomfortable as this topic is, there is more too it than the man up dynamic.

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

911
07-26-2019 11:51 AM
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N°6 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: BBC News: "Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?"
The heterosexual relations matrix, which governs the financialised West is the cuckservative man (thesis) and the feminist (anti-thesis).

In the case of female instigated domestic violence and sexual assault, the synthesis they’d create between them would be a combination of “man up, women can’t be anything other than victims and men should feel lucky women want sex. So stop you’re whining.”

This is precisely why this topic should be discussed. Women’s black arts lie in psychological operations.

Don't spend all your energy on sex and all your money on women; they have destroyed kings. (Proverbs 31:3 GNB)
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2019 01:25 AM by N°6.)
07-27-2019 01:18 AM
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