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Are most married couples unhappy?
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John Dodds Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-13-2019 10:20 PM)king bast Wrote:  Are any of those with the canned anti-marriage answers actually married themselves? Ive been married for almost 10 years, and the answer to the question "are you happy" would not have been the same throughout that time, but right now the answer is absolutely yes.

I've been married for 40 years
1st wife in the west, happy 3 years, unhappy 27 years, suicidal (divorce) 6 months.
2nd wife in SEA, happy 10 years.

1st wife took most of my assets (around $1M), all my home, children, dog, savings and half my pension (I really miss that dog).
2nd wife has no entitlement to anything I own (not that there's much left after No. 1).
08-14-2019 02:17 AM
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Post: #27
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-14-2019 02:10 AM)wwtl Wrote:  SilentOne, marriage with no-fault divorce is a bad deal for men. But common law marriage is an even worse deal. Depending on the state you live in you might find a loophole here and there. But for many jurisdictions your advice is bollocks.

In many Western countries you can't have a family without marriage. Instead you get the divorce deal immediately when your child is born. You pay the mother and the child while being a bachelor legally with no rights to your own offspring. You don't even appear on the birth certificate. The "family" is mother + children then. You don't exist except as a bank account.

So having a child out of wedlock is the most stupid thing for a man to do. Why are you advising men to do this?

Disagree,
You have no (enforcable) rights to ever see your children again if you're married either. It's always up to the woman, was divorced 10 years back, never saw my 4 children again. Essentially she can just claim you are threatening/stalking her or abusing/mistreating the kids or she can relocate to the other side of the country.

I've learned to just walk away at the end of a relationship and forget the kids, she taught them to hate me, no point in seeing them again.
It's easy enough to start a new relationship and make more kids.
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019 02:24 AM by John Dodds.)
08-14-2019 02:22 AM
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-14-2019 02:22 AM)John Dodds Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 02:10 AM)wwtl Wrote:  SilentOne, marriage with no-fault divorce is a bad deal for men. But common law marriage is an even worse deal. Depending on the state you live in you might find a loophole here and there. But for many jurisdictions your advice is bollocks.

In many Western countries you can't have a family without marriage. Instead you get the divorce deal immediately when your child is born. You pay the mother and the child while being a bachelor legally with no rights to your own offspring. You don't even appear on the birth certificate. The "family" is mother + children then. You don't exist except as a bank account.

So having a child out of wedlock is the most stupid thing for a man to do. Why are you advising men to do this?

Disagree,
You have no (enforcable) rights to ever see your children again if you're married either. It's always up to the woman, was divorced 10 years back, never saw my 4 children again. Essentially she can just claim you are threatening/stalking her or abusing/mistreating the kids or she can relocate to the other side of the country.

I've learned to just walk away at the end of a relationship and forget the kids, she taught them to hate me, no point in seeing them again.
It's easy enough to start a new relationship and make more kids.

My post wasn't about right of contact and access and behavior of women. That has always been fucked everywhere, with a few exceptions like Denmark.

In most countries marriage is a legal construct making the difference between "your children" and "her children". You simply don't have any children without marriage. You just pay some women "damages" for impregnating her out of wedlock. Again the "advantage" of just cohabiting with a girl is specific to a few US states, it's not applicable globally. And the loopholes in the US will be closed as well, that's just a matter of time.

So you can have a pretend family, but legally and factually you are single causing "damages" to a woman. The state will retaliate, once the relationship goes south. If your faux wife marries someone else "your" children become his. The details may vary slightly from place to place, but that's how most of the world rolls.
08-14-2019 02:42 AM
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SilentOne Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-14-2019 02:10 AM)wwtl Wrote:  SilentOne, marriage with no-fault divorce is a bad deal for men. But common law marriage is an even worse deal. Depending on the state you live in you might find a loophole here and there. But for many jurisdictions your advice is bollocks.

In many Western countries you can't have a family without marriage. Instead you get the divorce deal immediately when your child is born. You pay the mother and the child while being a bachelor legally with no rights to your own offspring. You don't even appear on the birth certificate. The "family" is mother + children then. You don't exist except as a bank account.

So having a child out of wedlock is the most stupid thing for a man to do. Why are you advising men to do this?

No the stupidest thing a man can do is sign a marriage certificate. It is the only contract you will sign of such magnitude that doesn't have any consequences for breaking it, at least for the women.

I don't live where that common law nonsense is at. If I did, I wouldn't ever be living with a women. Everything else you said pretty much rest my case on why you should never marry in the West. I know you blue pilled guys will ignore me.

Now if you live in one of these states that do common law marriages... There is a new rule. Don't get married and don't cohabitate. There you go. The game has changed. Don't live with them at all.

For the ones that want kids, well you're kinda screwed. I get you want a family but odds are you won't be raising them up through their childhood. At some point she will take the kids and flee out of state or she will get you kicked out of the house and still force you to pay child support. Why would she do it? Simply because she has the power to do so without repercussions. Just look at techlead. Yea he was a bit soft, but what she did to him was criminal.

wwtl just reinforced why you should just be a bachelor without kids. Maybe you can have a child through surrogacy to avoid the baby mama drama with the state. The current environment isn't looking good to raise a family properly. It sucks...
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019 03:37 AM by SilentOne.)
08-14-2019 03:35 AM
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Vladimir Poontang Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
It would be nice to see a map or a list ranking countries in terms of how good they are for marriage.

That's not how we do things in Russia, comrade.

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08-14-2019 03:40 AM
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-14-2019 03:35 AM)SilentOne Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 02:10 AM)wwtl Wrote:  SilentOne, marriage with no-fault divorce is a bad deal for men. But common law marriage is an even worse deal. Depending on the state you live in you might find a loophole here and there. But for many jurisdictions your advice is bollocks.

In many Western countries you can't have a family without marriage. Instead you get the divorce deal immediately when your child is born. You pay the mother and the child while being a bachelor legally with no rights to your own offspring. You don't even appear on the birth certificate. The "family" is mother + children then. You don't exist except as a bank account.

So having a child out of wedlock is the most stupid thing for a man to do. Why are you advising men to do this?

No the stupidest thing a man can do is sign a marriage certificate. It is the only contract you will sign of such magnitude that doesn't have any consequences for breaking it, at least for the women.

I don't live where that common law nonsense is at. If I did, I wouldn't ever be living with a women. Everything else you said pretty much rest my case on why you should never marry in the West. I know you blue pilled guys will ignore me.

Now if you live in one of these states that do common law marriages... There is a new rule. Don't get married and don't cohabitate. There you go. The game has changed. Don't live with them at all.

For the ones that want kids, well you're kinda screwed. I get you want a family but odds are you won't be raising them up through their childhood. At some point she will take the kids and flee out of state or she will get you kicked out of the house and still force you to pay child support. Why would she do it? Simply because she has the power to do so without repercussions. Just look at techlead. Yea he was a bit soft, but what she did to him was criminal.

wwtl just reinforced why you should just be a bachelor without kids. Maybe you can have a child through surrogacy to avoid the baby mama drama with the state. The current environment isn't looking good to raise a family properly. It sucks...

You proposed that one somehow can "have a family without marriage". Surrogates are illegal in many countries. You're still discussing MGTOW niche solutions, which might work in certain specific conditions for people with certain specific citizenships, while in other places the state simply seizes such a child from you and make you pay for it without you ever seeing it again.

Then your universal solution is essentially stay voluntarily celibate to avoid damage to your material belongings. But what's the point of having all these belongings then? What purpose of life do you imagine?

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The key is to let go. You are going to die and lose everything you have. That's a given. Just accept it. Your genetic legacy lives on only when you give up everything for it. Once your first child is born, you're permanently broke.

The only mistake you can make is trying to pretend that it won't happen to you if you choose to reproduce with a woman. You might work out the perfect workaround solution, then the state changes a law and you're fucked retroactively. Or you marry and naively believe that your marriage wild hold. Just enjoy it while it lasts and prepare for the inevitable.
08-14-2019 04:12 AM
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SilentOne Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-14-2019 04:12 AM)wwtl Wrote:  Then your universal solution is essentially stay voluntarily celibate to avoid damage to your material belongings. But what's the point of having all these belongings then? What purpose of life do you imagine?

Now you just making stuff up. When did I ever say be celebate? Undecided
08-14-2019 09:31 AM
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questor70 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-13-2019 10:09 PM)Kungfu Wrote:  Women hate beta providers.

Distinction. Women don't hate beta providers. That's like saying you hate an ATM. They just aren't turned on by them.
08-14-2019 09:32 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-14-2019 09:32 AM)questor70 Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 10:09 PM)Kungfu Wrote:  Women hate beta providers.

Distinction. Women don't hate beta providers. That's like saying you hate an ATM. They just aren't turned on by them.

...which leads to disdain, resentment, disrespect, etc. Semantics but close enough to "hate" that the net result is the same

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08-14-2019 09:38 AM
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SilentOne Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
I actually do not get the necessity of having to get married. It's nothing but a bad business deal period.

The only marriage i can see people do that isn't so stupid, is an arranged marriage. That makes far more sense then a marriage out of love. Each party has a part to play and live up to. It's a straight up business deal like it's meant to be. Not this "I'm going to love you forever" contract most people sign nowadays. Its nothing but verbal nonsense you don't even have to follow through with.

I'm just here to bring logic when it comes to marriage. I know some of you don't like logic, but prefer using love and hope. That's fine. People are free to do whatever they want like I always stated. I'm just stating odds are against you that you will suffer far more in a marriage than being legally single. Don't get mad at the world when you eventually get dragged around by the balls in family court. You were warned but some of you just have to learn the hard way.
08-14-2019 09:58 AM
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ilostabet Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
I wonder how many of the guys bitching about marriage and women being so bad are actually married.

and of those that are, or were, maybe you should consider that to have a good woman who will be submissive, you need to be the kind of man that is worth submitting to.

Don't call it a grave, it's the future you chose.
08-14-2019 10:18 AM
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Dilated Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
Would love to have children without getting married (ideal) but it seems the only women up for that are ghetto trash. Or have an accident. And children out of wedlock gives the state, and by proxy women, even more license to fuck you over.
08-14-2019 10:22 AM
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Montrose Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
cohabitation has all the characteristics of marriage except one : you don't have to support your partner after separation.

Therefore I think cohabitation is always a superior option for men and that is what I will recommend to my sons. The only caveat is that some quality girls will not accept cohabitation but they are rare (in Europe where I live)

Source: I've been happily married for 20 years
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019 10:28 AM by Montrose.)
08-14-2019 10:23 AM
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PapayaTapper Away
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Post: #39
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-14-2019 10:18 AM)ilostabet Wrote:  I wonder how many of the guys bitching about marriage and women being so bad are actually married.

and of those that are, or were, maybe you should consider that to have a good woman who will be submissive, you need to be the kind of man that is worth submitting to.

^ Like almost everything in life the real solutions are most often found by simply thoroughly searching in the mirror

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(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019 10:29 AM by PapayaTapper.)
08-14-2019 10:28 AM
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Kentemo Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
What's the disadvantage of getting married? To me it seems like fun, although most people don't take it too serious.
For me it's 100% unnecessary, but If I ever find that unicorn girl, you better believe I won't be able to keep her if marriage is off the table.

For a girl it's 1000x more special than for a guy. I think's it all bs and consumerism plays a role in it as well, but it's her special day. Why take that away from her?
I spend the majority of my time in Latin America and there it's even more ''special''.

There are contracts for shared wealth between partners after divorce, and other types of contracts. Just make sure it's all figured out.
Children might be an issue, usually it's the woman that gets advantage. But that can be figured out as well, if you really want too.

Edit: Married couples can be happy. Happiness is hard to define. A simple and happy girl that is happy with her life at the present, and not always pursuing ''the next big thing'', is definitely a requirement. There will be boring moments in every relationship.
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019 10:43 AM by Kentemo.)
08-14-2019 10:32 AM
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Zenta Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-14-2019 10:18 AM)ilostabet Wrote:  I wonder how many of the guys bitching about marriage and women being so bad are actually married.

and of those that are, or were, maybe you should consider that to have a good woman who will be submissive, you need to be the kind of man that is worth submitting to.

I think this is a very prominent post, find a good submissive woman and be of frame to be submitted to. Most likely the only way you can have a decent marriage these days.


I should have clarified my post a bit more. Instead of happy I should have used the word content, as any wise man knows you cannot be in a constant state of happiness(and to think you can is like spending your life chasing fools gold), so I think some people took that too literal and that is my fault. I choose happy just because I was thinking at the time how unhappy and depressed many couples I know are so my head just jumped to the opposite of that.

Also on the topic, I don't think cohabitation applies here, while I do no disagree at all the benefits of cohabitation vs marriage, any good woman worth cohabitating and have children with most likely will also want to be married, as pointed out it is much more important to them than it is to us. Of course there are always outliers but lets be realistic here, your tradition good childbearing submissive wife is going to want marriage on top of all that and rightly so.
08-14-2019 11:20 AM
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Kungfu Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-14-2019 09:32 AM)questor70 Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 10:09 PM)Kungfu Wrote:  Women hate beta providers.

Distinction. Women don't hate beta providers. That's like saying you hate an ATM. They just aren't turned on by them.

It's not just a lack of attraction. It's anti-attraction. Repulsion.

Their entire beings seethe with contempt for betas.
08-14-2019 03:36 PM
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SilentOne Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
Does anybody here actually see any pros or benefits to marriage?? Something that doesn't involve using feelings or getting a gimmick like tax breaks... Anybody???
08-14-2019 05:20 PM
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Zenta Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-14-2019 05:20 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  Does anybody here actually see any pros or benefits to marriage?? Something that doesn't involve using feelings or getting a gimmick like tax breaks... Anybody???

The only real benefit is a more stable family unit with the right women that wouldn't otherwise be with you if you just planned to be her cohabitation partner for the rest of her life.
08-14-2019 06:20 PM
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John Dodds Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-14-2019 06:20 PM)Zenta Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 05:20 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  Does anybody here actually see any pros or benefits to marriage?? Something that doesn't involve using feelings or getting a gimmick like tax breaks... Anybody???

The only real benefit is a more stable family unit with the right women that wouldn't otherwise be with you if you just planned to be her cohabitation partner for the rest of her life.

Women don't plan for the rest of their life.
They do what feels good to them on a day to day basis.
I asked my (SEA) woman how far she plans ahead, she replied "If I have a weeks food in the larder, I'm happy"
08-14-2019 07:23 PM
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Kungfu Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-13-2019 10:20 PM)king bast Wrote:  Are any of those with the canned anti-marriage answers actually married themselves? Ive been married for almost 10 years, and the answer to the question "are you happy" would not have been the same throughout that time, but right now the answer is absolutely yes.

In this political and spiritual climate, I cant imagine what would keep me going if not my family. Family has given men purpose from time immemorial, so if youre one of the "never getting married, never having kids" crowd, good luck to you all finding something else, but I'd advise you not to try to reinvent the wheel. Your nihilistic, defeatist attitudes will make your unhappiness a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I upvoted your comment cause it makes sense, but at the same time I can't accept it.

I have seen how women act around super alphas and there's no going back. Women of all ages, races, and socioeconomic backgrounds. All willing to dump their husbands or boyfriends in the trash in a heartbeat.

There's nothing more eye opening.
08-15-2019 12:18 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
Most people who are unhappy married, they are even more unhappy single.

The few who live fulfilling lives while single are either single successful men who have had children before - and they can still attract women.
Or they are the few true solitary creatures that are akin to spiritual monks/nuns or eternal womanizers who enjoy their lives that way.

There is lots of anti-marriage propaganda in the media - don't believe it. The happiness ratio especially of women has been going down strongly. We men do better without marriage than women, but that's about the full extent of it.
08-15-2019 05:36 AM
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Post: #48
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-15-2019 05:36 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  Most people who are unhappy married, they are even more unhappy single.

Bingo. People end up miserable either way, and the grass is always greener.

I will never deny the value of game or the pleasure of sex, but it adds no value to your life and becomes a mindless and empty quest in itself.
08-15-2019 10:23 AM
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Post: #49
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
< Besides - the anti-marriage talk is useless.

Anyone knows a better system that would create a better human society than stable male-female marriage-bound relations for life?

I don't. The only thing I know is that we must return to the sane marriage laws and unions from the 1880s, where fathers have massive rights, keep their kids in divorce. We can even now add Red Pill and Game teachings that are science based on top of religion. We can tell women and men why the old "sexist" behavioral patterns make both genders happy. Men should be encouraged to be Rambo and not soy and women should be encouraged to be feminine and submissive. It makes for better experiences.

The globo-homos are trying to destroy the marriage bond instead of improving it. If we implemented my system then happiness would be 80% for women and for men not far behind. Hardly a man would complain being married to a 16-20yo girl getting her hottest years, having her give you kids early. Banging or marrying 30yo carousel sluts would be a ridiculous proposition.

And that does not mean that divorces would not happen - of course they would and they should sometimes, but these would be extenuating circumstances and should not be encouraged.
08-15-2019 11:48 AM
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king bast Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Are most married couples unhappy?
(08-15-2019 12:18 AM)Kungfu Wrote:  
(08-13-2019 10:20 PM)king bast Wrote:  Are any of those with the canned anti-marriage answers actually married themselves? Ive been married for almost 10 years, and the answer to the question "are you happy" would not have been the same throughout that time, but right now the answer is absolutely yes.

In this political and spiritual climate, I cant imagine what would keep me going if not my family. Family has given men purpose from time immemorial, so if youre one of the "never getting married, never having kids" crowd, good luck to you all finding something else, but I'd advise you not to try to reinvent the wheel. Your nihilistic, defeatist attitudes will make your unhappiness a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I upvoted your comment cause it makes sense, but at the same time I can't accept it.

I have seen how women act around super alphas and there's no going back. Women of all ages, races, and socioeconomic backgrounds. All willing to dump their husbands or boyfriends in the trash in a heartbeat.

There's nothing more eye opening.

That seems weak as fuck. Your attitude is that bullies can't steal your lunch money if you don't have any, so you spend your whole life going hungry.
There are no "super alphas" lurking in the shadows, waiting to steal my wife, and if I thought there was, I'd back myself to take care of it. Have some belief, don't just give in to a fear of your own making.
08-15-2019 09:18 PM
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