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Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
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Rotten Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
Black crime in the US is higher than black crime in Africa.

Diversity causes higher crime.

Diversity plus proximity equals war.

It is not an accident that the rise in crime rate coincides perfectly with the migrations of peoples, first from within the US and then from without.

Welfare, shown to increase crime everywhere, doesn't help, but blaming "declining morals" without even mentioning the necessarily lack of social trust that is definitionally part of "diversity" is a huge cop out.
08-15-2019 10:55 AM
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Post: #27
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
Why doesn't anyone go into data and reason:

Quote:The majority of studies have found IQ differences between offenders and ... 23% of the inmates scored below 80, almost 69% scored between 80 and 109


Quote:More evidence comes from a study conducted in the Texas prison system which found that more than 20% of criminal offenders had an IQ below 80. IQ’s at such a level begin to seriously impede a person’s chances at life success and it is thought that a life of crime then becomes an alternative (dangerous and risky) path for such persons. Additionally, those who have IQ scores around 80 and below have significant problems in balancing short-term vs long-term desires. This is sometimes referred to as the ability to delay gratification and is related to time-preference (‘I want what I want and I want it now by any means necessary’ vs ‘I want X but will work slowly, methodically, and legally or morally to attain it’).


https://medium.com/@JDSApollo/the-truth-...3c22329c9a

There are studies on short-term vs long-term gratification - blacks scored significantly lower on that.

Part of it is also aggression potential in general. We Whites would committ violent crimes more often if we for example replaced the Japanese or Korean populations. Crime would shoot up at least 20-40%. But it wouldn't shoot up 500-1000%.

There are statistical variables that easily explain why people commit crime - and obviously it's exacerbated in a high-IQ country because a more aggressive low-IQ part of the population simply cannot compete with the rest - they are going to take it. And it's all going to be explained away by aggression or even laziness of their tribe despite the fact that industrious smart blacks outperform without difficulty.

Culture and learned behavior, fatherlass households all play a role, but not to the extent to be replicated from the US, Britain, Caribbean, Brazil up to Israel and Jewish black orthodox Jews!!!!! You cannot continue to spout the mere culture excuse.

Low-IQ criminals are significantly over-represented in all countries in the world. Anyone who worked with criminals knows it.

And Africa even being 100% black is not free from that - while some of the comparative competitive pressure is gone and the places appear mired with less crime I simply doubt it having been acquainted with enough Africans. It's incredibly dangerous there even if it's not encompassed by statistics - rape is galore, if your body disappears, then it's not counted as murder etc.

Muslim countries would also experience a massive crime wave, but they are held at bay with brutal authoritarian control, Islam as well as the quite exacting tribal nature.

Molyneux mentioned a few studies that said that the most violent offenders were found in the 80-90 IQ range - both black and White with obvious over-representations. The crime data suggests also that below 80 IQ propensity falls again meaning that you become too dumb to do even crime - at least the violent uncontrollable kind of crime that comprises 50% of criminal statistics. Those simple would hardly happen in a high-IQ society.
08-15-2019 11:33 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
(08-15-2019 10:55 AM)Rotten Wrote:  Black crime in the US is higher than black crime in Africa.

Diversity causes higher crime.

Diversity plus proximity equals war.

It is not an accident that the rise in crime rate coincides perfectly with the migrations of peoples, first from within the US and then from without.

Welfare, shown to increase crime everywhere, doesn't help, but blaming "declining morals" without even mentioning the necessarily lack of social trust that is definitionally part of "diversity" is a huge cop out.

Yeah - that's what I said and some Africans have mentioned it too - the African countries with larger White populations are more crime-ridden.

And of course - that's logical due to competitive pressure and inability to ever be able to close the gap. Though all black countries have also higher crime stats by far even if not anywhere near as high as in the US. It's prevalent even in Brazil - a true multiracial society that is mainly a split one.

Diversity plus proximity equals war only when certain tribes are concerned. A half-Japanese and half-Anglo country would do fine.
08-15-2019 11:37 AM
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TigerMandingo Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
“There are statistical variables that easily explain why people commit crime.”

No, there aren’t. If you point out a serial offender to me and say “well its obvious why he did it, the guy has a room temperature IQ” then I’m gonna call bullshit, just like everyone else with any common sense. There are tons of variables that may “cause” a person to commit or not commit a crime. IQ maybe one of them. Or it might not be!

As I said, human behavior is an extremely complex area, just like global politics. In the same vein, you reduce that to “it’s the globohomo, man”.
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2019 12:05 PM by TigerMandingo.)
08-15-2019 11:58 AM
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Post: #30
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
(08-15-2019 11:58 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  “There are statistical variables that easily explain why people commit crime.”

No, there aren’t. If you point out a serial offender to me and say “well its obvious why he did it, the guy has a room temperature IQ” then I’m gonna call bullshit, just like everyone else with any common sense. There are tons of variables that may “cause” a person to commit or not commit a crime. IQ maybe one of them. Or it might not be!

As I said, human behavior is an extremely complex area, just like global politics. In the same vein, you reduce that to “it’s the globohomo, man”.

Obviously no one does a single-variate analysis... the studies done on IQ and crime are multi-variate and show that all other factors fall away other than IQ: If you normalize for IQ,all racial etc differences disappear. IQ explains nearly all of it. I'm sure you can google these studies.
08-15-2019 08:02 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
The current and historical experiences with it are following all the same pattern:

Shitlord enforcement of law and order amid somewhat racial separation = more or less manageable low crime rate of blacks

Egalitarian or free society = almost instant explosion of crime as blacks neither can nor want to integrate in a law-abiding system as they will complain about the racism of the gaps always. They will underperform on all positive metrics of achievement and outperform on negative crime stats - all without any racism.

Ethopian Jews living as Jews for centuries with a quite similar "culture" but identitcal results to all other blacks:





South Africa only enjoying a massive crime wave after the 1990s while the US was hit with it sooner.





Low IQ combined with more testosterone level manifests itself in despite the prevalence of culture and other metrics. Anyone who spouts that culture crap must be dishonest to the SJW-NPC degree or it's just too painful to admit since he is maybe surrounded by a smart black family for generations and cannot imagine this fact to be true.

However it is - and only long-term postive eugenics is a solution to it. A high-IQ black nation will be a low-crime black nation.

Oh - and poverty also causes crime, though poverty is always relative. It's coefficient wealth differences that causes it - if everyone is poor, then it's one thing. Also there is a minimum level of well-being that limits crime once most people reach that. Still - there was an interesting stat out there that said that middle class blacks cause more violent crime than lower class Whites, though it remains to be seen how many of those middle class blacks were promoted by the diversity industry. You would have to discount for IQ and my guess is when you do that, then the crime stats are just as different as Whites vs Asians - so bearable and fine.

A rich 100% White society like Sweden had one murder every 3 years in Stockholm their biggest city in the 1970s. Maybe a Japanese Stockholm would have one murder every 4 years, but when your reach those numbers, then I don't care. Maybe a high-IQ all black Stockholm would have one murder per year, but that is still nothing. We only need to create the first all-black city with an average IQ of over 100.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2019 01:34 PM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
08-16-2019 01:32 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
(08-16-2019 01:32 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  A rich 100% White society like Sweden had one murder every 3 years in Stockholm their biggest city in the 1970s. Maybe a Japanese Stockholm would have one murder every 4 years, but when your reach those numbers, then I don't care. Maybe a high-IQ all black Stockholm would have one murder per year, but that is still nothing. We only need to create the first all-black city with an average IQ of over 100.

That was possible in Greenwood Oklahoma during the "Black Wall street" days before Democrats intervention.




I'm fully ethnonationalist, I'll admit it. But I do think every race in our American society should have the option to advance themselves equally and remotely in the way they seem fit to do so without government intrusion/intervention..

Woodrow Wilson & FDR were the predecessors that helped bring cultural Marxism into our society and the lack of long-term vision without realizing it'd spread to middle America ; or, either they didn't care .

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08-16-2019 03:37 PM
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
Although the Black world is far more dysfunctional and stupid (i.e. low-IQ) compared to the White or Asian worlds, blaming IQ is not actually the answer.

IQ is a cop-out used by Atheists to try and find a material answer to a spiritual problem.

All one needs to do is compare Orthodox Ethiopians, who honestly are better than most Whites. They may not have the high-IQ that allows to them to learn as "fast" (it's meaningless: one man learns in a day, and another man learns in two days. IQ is fairly meaningless in the real world), but in any other respect you'd love their company.

For example, compare the capital of Ethiopia to the capital of the USA in terms of crime:

https://www.numbeo.com/crime/compare_cit...ddis+Ababa

Code:
Index   Info    Washington, DC    Addis Ababa
Crime Index:       56.64       43.89
Safety Scale:       43.36       56.11

Religious Ethiopia blows us away. Baltimore is also a joke:

https://www.numbeo.com/crime/compare_cit...ddis+Ababa

Code:
Index   Info    Baltimore, MD    Addis Ababa
Crime Index:       71.97       43.89
Safety Scale:       28.03       56.11

I actually met an Ethiopian at a political event once, and he kept asking me why did our culture promote gay men so much? He asked what was wrong with us, if we were going crazy, etc. It was very difficult to explain to him how we were subverted through the Supreme Courts and Media, because he was a religious man and he could never imagine anything like that happening in his home country.

Ethiopia actually compares with Ohio, home of the highest White births in America:

https://www.numbeo.com/crime/compare_cit...ddis+Ababa

Code:
Index   Info    Columbus, OH    Addis Ababa
Crime Index:       41.65       43.89
Safety Scale:       58.35       56.11

A measly two-point difference, which is exactly what you'd expect from the "dog breed" explanation of human races. For example, if I owned a pitbull and a golden retriever, I know the pitbull may be more aggressive and dumb than the golden but overall they are still dogs and respond to the exact same things all dogs do. As a result, the pitbull may have a few interesting behavior differences but overall will be insignificant over the course of the animal's life. The same goes for Whites/Blacks/Asians.

Thus, even if Ethiopians have lower-IQ than Whites, it doesn't matter. Low-IQ criminals get Low-IQ solutions in a Low-IQ society, such as beheadings, beatings, castrations, tongues being pulled out, or imprisonment, which is how White societies developed for thousands of years before we became high-IQ.

But as our high-IQ society declines in religiosity, we see high-IQ crimes with no easy solutions:

- Suicidal Mass shootings of defenseless people
- Banking usury that rots out the economy
- Endless war and imperialism so a few men can make money
- Drug trafficking on an industrial scale
- Sexual degeneracy of all kinds
- Pimping of women and children across airplanes and million dollar organizations fronting as massage therapy
- Selling out of your country to foreigners for votes and power

The problem is always rooted in our spirituality, no material explanation can ever understand the soul. There will always be counterexamples to refute any material explanation you can think of, whether it is IQ, race, money, technology, resources, etc, there will always exist an example of low-crime society whatever material deficiency it may have.

Blacks in America suffer first and foremost from a dead soul, and it is obvious to anyone who bothers to talk to these people in the streets. I prefer low-IQ crime to high-IQ crime, by the way, because you can see it coming and setup defenses for it. Nothing you can do when your country is raped inside-out.

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(This post was last modified: 08-16-2019 04:24 PM by Samseau.)
08-16-2019 04:20 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
Hilarious Samseau picking Baltimore - majority black and Columbus Ohio - that is 32% black!!!! Are you fucking kidding me??????????

No one blows the stats out of the fucking water!!!! Ethopian stats are likely double and not reliable. And both the Baltimore and Columbus stats would be 60% lower with zero black population. An all-White Baltimore would probably have a 90% lower crime rate.

Your arguments are meaningless. Even if you found a more peaceful part and I agree that orthodox Christians or believing African Christiians will have a lower crime rate than if their adhere to their previous cults, but that is a slight reduction. Plus - yes - black crime is also higher when Whites or Asians are around and there is a postmodern laissez faire culture around it.

So no - it's not a bloody Atheist argument. Globohomo atheists deny IQ now since every culture is the same to them.

And and I question your bullshit regarding low-IQ crime vs high-IQ crime. Go live in a violent area of low-IQ people and tell me how it goes for you. Meanwhile I don't mind living in the Hamptons with 20% of them doing Satanist masses. My family is still going to be 100 times safer there. Obviously you could in theory deal with low-IQ crime better, but that is an academic idea frankly and utterly irrelevant.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2019 04:44 PM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
08-16-2019 04:42 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
(08-16-2019 04:42 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  Hilarious Samseau picking Baltimore - majority black and Columbus Ohio - that is 32% black!!!! Are you fucking kidding me??????????

And Addis Ababa is 99.5% Black. What's your point?

Quote:No one blows the stats out of the fucking water!!!! Ethopian stats are likely double and not reliable.

Orthodox Ethopia is one of the most successful countries in Africa. They keep good stats and run warm and friendly communities. The Muslim part is where the country falls apart.

Quote:And both the Baltimore and Columbus stats would be 60% lower with zero black population. An all-White Baltimore would probably have a 90% lower crime rate.

So what? The point is that living in Columbus, OH, isn't bad. It's not that unsafe and the low-IQ crime that occurs there is easily manageable. Same goes for Addis Ababa.

Quote:Your arguments are meaningless. Even if you found a more peaceful part and I agree that orthodox Christians or believing African Christiians will have a lower crime rate than if their adhere to their previous cults, but that is a slight reduction. Plus - yes - black crime is also higher when Whites or Asians are around and there is a postmodern laissez faire culture around it.

So no - it's not a bloody Atheist argument. Globohomo atheists deny IQ now since every culture is the same to them.

Globohomo deny Christ first, IQ after. They deny cultural differences, and biological ones. But most of all, they deny God.

Quote:And and I question your bullshit regarding low-IQ crime vs high-IQ crime. Go live in a violent area of low-IQ people and tell me how it goes for you.

Goes fine. As a man, the odds anything happens to you is pretty low. If you work out, even lower. And if people are allowed to carry arms, then odds are basically 0.

Low-IQ criminals mainly attack women and children. The problem with Low-IQ crime is you have to worry far more for women and children, which means they need constant protection. No different than how predators in the wild work, such as lions preying on the young or women of herds.

It's easy and predictable to manage. The problem is if you have a rebellious woman who thinks she can defend herself because everyone is equal.

Quote:Meanwhile I don't mind living in the Hamptons with 20% of them doing Satanist masses. My family is still going to be 100 times safer there. Obviously you could in theory deal with low-IQ crime better, but that is an academic idea frankly and utterly irrelevant.

Safer in what way? Working 80 hours a week just to pay rent or mortgage while your child is desouled in the Hamptons doesn't sound safer than having a home you can keep with minimal work, easily defended with guns or other weapons. A safe slave, or a free man with some thugs around? The slave is at the mercy of his government, fucked as soon as his masters no longer need him.

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(This post was last modified: 08-16-2019 05:13 PM by Samseau.)
08-16-2019 05:11 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
Utterly hilarious statement - here from a site that collects global crime stats - recent comment:

Quote:Balkrishna on May 19, 2019 :
Hi
I am Balkrishna currently in Ethiopia, Addis Ababa. Tried to visit nearest shopping mall distance with 3-4 mins walking. When i leave hotel in 2 mins 3 guys surrounded us trying to sell books. But actually they are not selling any books. They came closer to me and keep books near to west and tried to take mobile phone from my pocket. It's very dangerous in all over Ethiopia. they can robbed you while walking

Any African country except maybe South Africa compiling decent crime stats? Hilarious - laughable statement.

I know enough Africans and I haven't heard the shit-crime stories of barely getting out alive ever. Not even violent American cities come close - with doctors being kidnapped off hospital parking lots in dominant Christian Nigerian areas and other shit. One guy I knew said that his neighbor had killed multiple people and everyone knew it, but no one dared rat out on him. He would kill you just for making him angry - just drive you outside of the city and bury your body. Missing person is no crime there.

I never hear stories like that from anywhere else - at best South American crime areas come close to that.

--------

And obviously my argument was that a 32% black city has the majority if not 70% of crime done by blacks, thus it would be lower.
Though yes - a 20% White Adis Abeba would have a much higher crime rate if the productive output differential would be far towards Whites. This kind of thing creates plenty of tension and also inbuilt envy, fueling more crime.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2019 05:30 PM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
08-16-2019 05:22 PM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
"Christian" is often a meaningless term in a demographic sense.

American Blacks identify at 79% as Christian. As I've noted elsewhere different ethnicities adapt Christianity in different ways. Cholos pray to God, Jesus and Mary for protection before they go out to murder a rival drug cartel. Black Americans will pray to God, Jesus and Mary that their son is acquitted on charges of robbing a random and killing him afterward, even when the evidence is overwhelming.

Unless the Christian is some form of orthodox then the term "Christian" carries no demographic weight. Ignore "Christian" and look for "orthodox" or "catholic".

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2019 10:05 PM by Leonard D Neubache.)
08-16-2019 10:04 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
Guns don't kill people, Clintons do!
08-16-2019 10:13 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
The thing with Simeon is all he knows is stats and YouTube videos. Those are the sources of his knowledge. Dude has zero real-world experience. He acts like he discovered the Dead Sea scrolls cuz he read some “globohomo” secret document from the 1950s lulz.

His posts fall into two categories: Muslim-bashing and spergy talk about IQ. And they’re littered with lame manosphere jargon like “red pill” “hypergamy” and “globalists”.
08-16-2019 10:48 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
Criminal "life experience" is only accumulated through cops and that is why they react to blacks so differently in the neighborhood after a time.

My life experiences with Africans told me enough - I heard stories myself - none of them happened in the West, not even in the US.

NPCs are gonna NPC - the eternally triggered non-European ones who always voice their opinions on how the evil Westerners are just fine - all while not being from the West.

Either way - it's just funny that I see standard Republican Evangelist arguments about this.

Guess the Trump proposal of letting in tens of millions of "decent Christian Red Pilled Africans" seems to have taken on.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2019 02:25 AM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
08-17-2019 02:22 AM
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Post: #41
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
East Asian average cranial capacity - 1364cm³.
European average cranial capacity - 1347cm³.

Oh that's very interesting. So it makes sense that East Asians who have larger brains than white people are also smarter than white people.

African average cranial capacity - 1267cm³.

The idea that average brain size is an indicator of average intelligence is a racist myth.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...960200137X
08-17-2019 04:06 AM
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Post: #42
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
It's interesting that Sowell talked about how blacks rose out of poverty between the civil war and LBJ's great society movement and that it fell apart between the large migration of blacks from the south (which he was a part of) that changed the national black culture and the moral decay (ie single mother households) that limited children's access to human capital (knowledge, skills, talents and education) which limits physical wealth. He noted that his parents had a NYC-born black to show him the public library system to further his educational success.

This goes back to when he talked about children and academic success being linked to parental involvement (approx. 5:00-7:00 minute mark). The thing is that the lack of parental involvement is also responsible for the moral decay that precludes an increase in crime beginning in the 60's.

This was known in prewar days as well.

https://www.wnd.com/2008/11/81340/

Quote:He points out that in 1926, Minnesota Gov.Theodore Christianson established a state crime commission. At the end of its research, the commission concluded that criminal tendencies were not the result of poverty, education or environment. Instead, it made the following observation: “Every baby starts life as a little savage.He is completely selfish and self-centered, he wants what he wants when he wants it: his bottle, his mother’s attention, his playmate’s toys,his uncle’s watch, or whatever. Deny him these and he seethes with rage and aggressiveness which would be murderous were he not so helpless.He’s dirty, he has no morals, no knowledge, no developed skills. This means that all children, not just certain children but all children,are born delinquent. If permitted to continue in their self-centered world of infancy, given free rein to their impulsive actions to satisfy each want, every child would grow up a criminal, a thief, a killer, a rapist.”

If parents don't bring their kids out of that self-centered world through the installation of virtue through education and religious instruction so they can gain human capital, the kids will end up violent savages.

It is not surprising that the moral decay also correlates with the rise of the modern female worker unit who chooses career over kids. It is also not surprising that social justice impedes efforts to combat the decay by telling people that they are being malevolently restricted from goals by certain groups, which causes them to not to pursue those goals and better themselves in the first place.
08-17-2019 05:26 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
^ Post Of The Day

outstanding post!
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2019 09:35 PM by TooFineAPoint.)
08-17-2019 09:34 PM
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Post: #44
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
(08-17-2019 05:26 PM)Garuda Wrote:  It's interesting that Sowell talked about how blacks rose out of poverty between the civil war and LBJ's great society movement and that it fell apart between the large migration of blacks from the south (which he was a part of) that changed the national black culture and the moral decay (ie single mother households) that limited children's access to human capital (knowledge, skills, talents and education) which limits physical wealth. He noted that his parents had a NYC-born black to show him the public library system to further his educational success.

This goes back to when he talked about children and academic success being linked to parental involvement (approx. 5:00-7:00 minute mark). The thing is that the lack of parental involvement is also responsible for the moral decay that precludes an increase in crime beginning in the 60's.

This was known in prewar days as well.

https://www.wnd.com/2008/11/81340/

Quote:He points out that in 1926, Minnesota Gov.Theodore Christianson established a state crime commission. At the end of its research, the commission concluded that criminal tendencies were not the result of poverty, education or environment. Instead, it made the following observation: “Every baby starts life as a little savage.He is completely selfish and self-centered, he wants what he wants when he wants it: his bottle, his mother’s attention, his playmate’s toys,his uncle’s watch, or whatever. Deny him these and he seethes with rage and aggressiveness which would be murderous were he not so helpless.He’s dirty, he has no morals, no knowledge, no developed skills. This means that all children, not just certain children but all children,are born delinquent. If permitted to continue in their self-centered world of infancy, given free rein to their impulsive actions to satisfy each want, every child would grow up a criminal, a thief, a killer, a rapist.”

If parents don't bring their kids out of that self-centered world through the installation of virtue through education and religious instruction so they can gain human capital, the kids will end up violent savages.

It is not surprising that the moral decay also correlates with the rise of the modern female worker unit who chooses career over kids. It is also not surprising that social justice impedes efforts to combat the decay by telling people that they are being malevolently restricted from goals by certain groups, which causes them to not to pursue those goals and better themselves in the first place.

The thing is some people already went over this. Sowell says that the "Southern blacks" were spreading the "Southern wild ways" when they went up north as the initially released slaves were different.

But why were they different? Was it because the freed slaves were more intelligent? Yes - there are estimates that the black slaves who got their freedom achieved this because of their higher intelligence. They integrated relatively well with Whites and in the mid 19th century there were some neighborhoods that were 50% black and White living in harmony.

After the civil war the rest of the blacks came in and destroyed all that within a short time.

Again - discounted for IQ the behavior is not that different. There was not "Southern wildness" that made them do crime.

Though obviously there are better and worse mindsets, cultures and religions, but the underlying factor that precipitates it is biological and can be remedied only via long-term eugenics.
08-18-2019 02:00 AM
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Captainstabbin Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
(08-16-2019 03:37 PM)pitbullowner Wrote:  That was possible in Greenwood Oklahoma during the "Black Wall street" days before Democrats intervention.

They survived, even thrived, when white people burned their city to the ground! They continued all the way up until welfare checks arrived. Then women decided it was easier to be married to the government than be a good, submissive wife to a man.

2 parent household rates plummeted, crime soared and people started leaving the city en masse. It became a ghost town like areas of Detroit.

They're trying to bring it back these days but it's all based on government grant money. When that dries up, it will fail again.
08-18-2019 02:04 AM
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Garuda Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
(08-18-2019 02:00 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  The thing is some people already went over this. Sowell says that the "Southern blacks" were spreading the "Southern wild ways" when they went up north as the initially released slaves were different.

But why were they different? Was it because the freed slaves were more intelligent? Yes - there are estimates that the black slaves who got their freedom achieved this because of their higher intelligence. They integrated relatively well with Whites and in the mid 19th century there were some neighborhoods that were 50% black and White living in harmony.

After the civil war the rest of the blacks came in and destroyed all that within a short time.

Again - discounted for IQ the behavior is not that different. There was not "Southern wildness" that made them do crime.

Though obviously there are better and worse mindsets, cultures and religions, but the underlying factor that precipitates it is biological and can be remedied only via long-term eugenics.

To say Sowell is a total outlier among the group he comes from is reaching for it. In the north, blacks were allowed to have a fairly normal family and community life (as normal as segregation). In the south, the practices (split up the family, promote vice, deny them education and etc) the plantation owners used to keep slaves under control continued after the war.

With no family life, it was easy for them to fall into delinquency as there was nothing to pull them out of the selfish nature of infancy (the "southern wildness" that he refers to). The 1926 study I cited suggests neither a college degree or an increase in wealth would have stopped the fall.

Before Sowell went to high school, the farthest anyone in his family had ever gotten was seventh grade. The one thing that is clear is that blacks in his part of North Carolina had a better family life than blacks elsewhere in the south.
08-19-2019 12:18 AM
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Tail Gunner Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Moral Decline Caused Crime, Not Poverty
(08-17-2019 05:26 PM)Garuda Wrote:  It's interesting that Sowell talked about how blacks rose out of poverty between the civil war and LBJ's great society movement and that it fell apart between the large migration of blacks from the south (which he was a part of) that changed the national black culture and the moral decay (ie single mother households) that limited children's access to human capital (knowledge, skills, talents and education) which limits physical wealth. He noted that his parents had a NYC-born black to show him the public library system to further his educational success.

This goes back to when he talked about children and academic success being linked to parental involvement (approx. 5:00-7:00 minute mark). The thing is that the lack of parental involvement is also responsible for the moral decay that precludes an increase in crime beginning in the 60's.

This was known in prewar days as well.

https://www.wnd.com/2008/11/81340/

Quote:He points out that in 1926, Minnesota Gov.Theodore Christianson established a state crime commission. At the end of its research, the commission concluded that criminal tendencies were not the result of poverty, education or environment. Instead, it made the following observation: “Every baby starts life as a little savage.He is completely selfish and self-centered, he wants what he wants when he wants it: his bottle, his mother’s attention, his playmate’s toys,his uncle’s watch, or whatever. Deny him these and he seethes with rage and aggressiveness which would be murderous were he not so helpless.He’s dirty, he has no morals, no knowledge, no developed skills. This means that all children, not just certain children but all children,are born delinquent. If permitted to continue in their self-centered world of infancy, given free rein to their impulsive actions to satisfy each want, every child would grow up a criminal, a thief, a killer, a rapist.”

If parents don't bring their kids out of that self-centered world through the installation of virtue through education and religious instruction so they can gain human capital, the kids will end up violent savages.

It is not surprising that the moral decay also correlates with the rise of the modern female worker unit who chooses career over kids. It is also not surprising that social justice impedes efforts to combat the decay by telling people that they are being malevolently restricted from goals by certain groups, which causes them to not to pursue those goals and better themselves in the first place.

This is correct. I will elaborate a bit from a Christian perspective. Christianity recognizes, and seeks to overcome, the fallen nature of man. The Bible describes human nature as innately fallen from birth, incapable of true goodness (without God’s assistance) and unwilling (on our own) to seek the face of God. From our birth, we are neither innocent nor inclined toward goodness. Instead, we are born as the offspring of Adam, inclined toward sin:

Quote:Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.
Romans 5:12.

America's greatest Christian theologian, Jonathan Edwards, referred to his own children as "little vipers." He explained:

Quote:And that little children have a negative virtue or innocence, in relation to the positive acts and hurtful effects of vice, is no argument that they have not a corrupt nature within them: for let their nature be ever so corrupt, yet surely it is no wonder that they be not guilty of positive wicked action, before they are capable of any moral action at all. A young viper has a malignant nature, though incapable of doing a malignant action, and at present appearing a harmless creature.

https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/vip...pers.7043/


If you are a parent, you have empirical evidence from which to draw. You know that you do not need to teach your infant to be selfish, impatient, rude, and demanding. In fact, infants must be taught to be just the opposite, because goodness is not a quality innate in humans. Parents must teach children how to love, how to think beyond their own needs and desires, how to share, and how to appreciate others.

Remember the famous experiment where monkeys were taken from their mothers and raised without any personal contact, comfort, or love? How did they turn out? They became sociopaths: angry, evil, and dangerous. This was their intrinsic nature, unless their parents instilled something different. Nurturing human parents produce healthy and well-adjusted offspring. Sick societies produce sick individuals.
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2019 01:05 PM by Tail Gunner.)
08-19-2019 01:02 PM
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