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Kiev Housing Prices
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ArloDash Offline
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Post: #1
Kiev Housing Prices
I've been shopping around on the Kiev housing market recently for apartments to rent.

Man...has it gotten expensive there to live in the city center for EE there!

I'm seeing minimums of $750 for a newly renovated place near the city center, and that's for a studio. We're looking at more like $800 for a proper one bedroom apartment.

That kind of sucks and sort of defeats the purpose of living in Ukraine, especially when you can live in Belgrade, Bucharest, Tbilisi, and other Ukrainian cities for almost half that price. For $800, you can get a decent enough place in much of the USA!

Granted bills will be nothing there and you're saving loads otherwise, but still, this is a big-time boner killer.

Anybody have any thoughts on this? I'm pretty savvy with finding apartments but my search is turning up brutally expensive places.

Mind you, this isn't knocking people off of AirBnb either, this is going through agents, using OLX, Facebook groups, etc.

Something I'm missing here perhaps?
08-16-2019 11:44 AM
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RawGod Offline
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
Good. Keep the cheapskates away. Secret: the real value is in buying, not renting. Rent in UA averages 11% annual return on property value - way too high. Compare 5.4% in Budapest. In other words, purchase price is half what it should be, but rent is high.

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08-16-2019 12:11 PM
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Captain_Crunch Offline
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
I have a good friend who retired in Lviv 5 years ago. He bought a 4th story converted apartment (approx 2500 sq ft) for $330K. It sits just on the edge of the city center. Beautiful place, 4BR, 2-1/2 Bath, Office, huge balcony overlooking the city, elevator that drops him off inside his apt. 2 fireplaces (1 in M-BR), surround sound, gourmet kitchen. The works. Other residents in the building told him had he moved in just 2 years prior he could have purchased for under $240K. Lviv has been growing in a good way while maintaining its medieval charm. It is becoming the tech mecha of Ukraine as now Oracle, Intellus, softserve and many others taking root bringing excellent jobs to the community. With it Starbucks, posh cafes, craft breweries, boutique shops etc. are springing up also bringing big investors. To cut to the chase, my friend was recently offered $750K for his apartment by a German businessman living in Lviv. Trust me, Lviv is becoming the true player in Ukraine by leaps and bounds. It too is no longer a place an expat should consider unless loaded. Also, he says the quality of ladies has improved dramatically over the past years. No doubt. Ukrainian ladies will follow the money. He additionally said that the ladies of Lviv do not even bat an eye to foreigners as money is everywhere in the city. He said there are ladies he sees daily, tall, blonde, perfect bodies, cultured, and very, very high maintenance. In other words when in Lviv, you may as well be in Paris, Oslo, Rome, Newport Beach.... get the picture? Just food for thought.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2019 03:37 PM by Captain_Crunch.)
08-16-2019 03:24 PM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
Yes I do not honestly see the value in Kiev these days, rental prices are v high, the locals are leaving en masse, and you have a huge influx of foreigners.

Kiev property definitely undervalued though and there's still a lot of hot girls, although they've become increasingly spoiled due to a big spike of attention from foreigners.

Captain Crunch - there's no Starbucks in Ukraine, which shows you have never been to the country, and makes your musings worth approximately zero.

Saying that someone should only consider Lviv if loaded is absurd, there's plenty of money in Lviv, but go out of the centre and you will see there are far more without.
08-16-2019 07:11 PM
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petburi Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Kiev Housing Prices
Yes, definitely noticed increase in prices for Kiev rentals in central area in recent years.
It seems there is some kind of oversaturation now, due to increased amount of foreigners staying in the city.

You can now live in a better parts of Europe for the same or even smaller money (at least in terms of apartment rents)
08-16-2019 08:52 PM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
(08-16-2019 03:24 PM)Captain_Crunch Wrote:  Trust me, Lviv is becoming the true player in Ukraine by leaps and bounds. It too is no longer a place an expat should consider unless loaded. Also, he says the quality of ladies has improved dramatically over the past years. No doubt. Ukrainian ladies will follow the money. He additionally said that the ladies of Lviv do not even bat an eye to foreigners as money is everywhere in the city. He said there are ladies he sees daily, tall, blonde, perfect bodies, cultured, and very, very high maintenance. In other words when in Lviv, you may as well be in Paris, Oslo, Rome, Newport Beach.... get the picture? Just food for thought.

Fake news. The city is extremely affordable. I don't know what long term housing costs are like overall but just because your friend bought a luxury apartment doesn't mean anything to the overall market or cost of living in the city, and no it's not equal to being in Paris or Oslo or any other big international city, not even close. I'm in a city of about 250K right now not far from Lviv, staying in a 3 bedroom apartment, nice but nothing fancy, in the heart of the city center for $400 a month. On the surface there appears to be no more wealth in Lviv then there is here. I see the same amount of luxury cars, posh cafes, beautiful women dressed to the nines, etc. The price of goods like coffee, beer, groceries are the same (very cheap).
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2019 06:01 AM by aeroektar.)
08-17-2019 05:42 AM
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RawGod Offline
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
(08-17-2019 05:42 AM)aeroektar Wrote:  I'm in a city of about 250K right now not far from Lviv, staying in a 3 bedroom apartment, nice but nothing fancy, in the heart of the city center for $400 a month. On the surface there appears to be no more wealth in Lviv then there is here. I see the same amount of luxury cars, posh cafes, beautiful women dressed to the nines, etc.


I can guess what city you might be in, no need to name it... Does it feel like the younger people are all leaving for Kiev or abroad, or is it thriving? Are the women spoiled by rich locals or foreigners?

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08-17-2019 06:54 AM
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Captain_Crunch Offline
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
BangBoy123: you are correct, I was confusing Kredens Cafe with Starbucks. But let me be clear, let us not try to compare your "field trips" to Ukraine with the many months I have worked there in renewable energy over the years, to include Kyiv, Lviv, Sevastopol (Crimea) and other regions.So please save your dismissive remarks, as you only make yourself appear foolish. In fact, that is how my former work compatriot decided to retire in Lviv, was offshore assignments to Ukraine through the global renewable energy corp we worked for.

My suggestion has always been to people of moderate means, you are better off staying at home or relocating to South America, Africa or parts of Asia. If you have to grimace over cost of living, and concern yourself with the demeanor of ladies there, it quite simply means you are out of your depth and will only find frustration. I am sorry if this sounds harsh, however high quality ladies in any part of Europe living in the metropolitan areas, or posh enclaves, are not going to show interest in a guy who is constantly checking his wallet or bargain shopping (rent, etc.). It is just the way it is.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2019 07:25 AM by Captain_Crunch.)
08-17-2019 07:24 AM
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RawGod Offline
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
(08-17-2019 07:24 AM)Captain_Crunch Wrote:  BangBoy123: you are correct, I was confusing Kredens Cafe with Starbucks. But let me be clear, let us not try to compare your "field trips" to Ukraine with the many months I have worked there in renewable energy over the years, to include Kyiv, Lviv, Sevastopol (Crimea) and other regions.So please save your dismissive remarks, as you only make yourself appear foolish. In fact, that is how my former work compatriot decided to retire in Lviv, was offshore assignments to Ukraine through the global renewable energy corp we worked for.

My suggestion has always been to people of moderate means, you are better off staying at home or relocating to South America, Africa or parts of Asia. If you have to grimace over cost of living, and concern yourself with the demeanor of ladies there, it quite simply means you are out of your depth and will only find frustration. I am sorry if this sounds harsh, however high quality ladies in any part of Europe living in the metropolitan areas, or posh enclaves, are not going to show interest in a guy who is constantly checking his wallet or bargain shopping (rent, etc.). It is just the way it is.

On the other hand, I think the anecdote of your friend being offered $750k for an apartment in Lviv gives the wrong idea. An online search shows 400 sq m penthouses offered for that money in Kiev right now (albeit that is an entry-level penthouse) and beautiful apartments in Lviv or Kiev for half or less that amount.

Clearly the cost of living in Ukraine is nothing like Paris or Stockholm, and if your idea of getting "quality" women is to flash cash and lifestyle, you can achieve that with less wealth in Ukraine than in Western Europe. To say otherwise is nonsense.

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08-17-2019 07:40 AM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
LOL, does this nearby city you reside in have a name? Or are we going to play 20 questions? Careful with the clandestine routine, makes it appear you are transmitting from mommy's basement ?. Kidding you. There are only a few cities in Ukraine with a considerably higher cost of living. I'll make it easy for you - those cities are Kyiv, Lviv, Odessa, Yalta, Sumy and Dnipropetrovsk to a lesser degree.

For anyone who has actually spent time there, and does not rely on living in their laptop relying on TripAdvisor as their gateway to reality (which never gets it right), I can assure you, Lviv is where international investors are putting their money. If reality seems to severe for you and don't want to take my word for it, simply go to any International forum (i.e., InterNations) and you can see for yourself, Lviv is where all the innovation and investment activity is occurring.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2019 08:27 AM by Captain_Crunch.)
08-17-2019 07:49 AM
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Captain_Crunch Offline
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
@RawGod, you live in a bubble. His apartment (European term) HAS been converted to a Penthouse, as you refer to it. Additionally, it sits on the top floor of a four-floor unit on the edge of the cities center. You are looking at places either remote or industrial. I am not going to spend time explaining other facts as with all do respect you do not seem familiar with Ukraine.

Re: women. it is simple. Ukrainian women are class conscience. If you are young, goodlooking, loaded and have modicum of personality, the world is your oyster - on any continent. If you are good looking on a budget, forget the higher quality women, but with time, may make time with a few hotties here and there. If older and well-heeled - you may make time with a hottie with some time and effort, however you will be forking out $$$ before she puts out. If you are older and loaded, you will see more action, however, it will be your wallet that is the allure; and again she will want to see yours, meaning $$$, before showing you hers.

My comment, comparing Lviv to other cities in Europe was for comparison purposes only in landing high quality ladies. Higher quality ladies living in Lviv,, Kyiv will be just as demanding of the standard they set for a man, as you will find for ladies in Rome, Paris, etc. If anyone is trying to convince you because you are an American or westerner, high quality ladies, or even not so high quality will swoon over you, then I assure you, you have been seriously misled, LOL. I wish I had a dime for every soy-boy from the States I saw in Ukraine failing miserably because they thought it was going to be "easy", LOL. That is as simple as I know how to explain it. It is just the way it is.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2019 08:13 AM by Captain_Crunch.)
08-17-2019 08:12 AM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
(08-17-2019 06:54 AM)RawGod Wrote:  
(08-17-2019 05:42 AM)aeroektar Wrote:  I'm in a city of about 250K right now not far from Lviv, staying in a 3 bedroom apartment, nice but nothing fancy, in the heart of the city center for $400 a month. On the surface there appears to be no more wealth in Lviv then there is here. I see the same amount of luxury cars, posh cafes, beautiful women dressed to the nines, etc.


I can guess what city you might be in, no need to name it... Does it feel like the younger people are all leaving for Kiev or abroad, or is it thriving? Are the women spoiled by rich locals or foreigners?

It might just be because it's summer, I've never been here any other time of year, but there are young people everywhere and its definitely bustling in the city center just like Lviv. A lot of it is domestic or regional tourism, I've seen maybe two dozen non whites.

CaptainCrunch, what is your problem? Get off your high horse. You said "don't consider Lviv unless your loaded" which is honestly just a dumb thing to say.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2019 08:37 AM by aeroektar.)
08-17-2019 08:31 AM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
(08-17-2019 08:12 AM)Captain_Crunch Wrote:  @RawGod, you live in a bubble. His apartment (European term) HAS been converted to a Penthouse, as you refer to it. Additionally, it sits on the top floor of a four-floor unit on the edge of the cities center. You are looking at places either remote or industrial. I am not going to spend time explaining other facts as with all do respect you do not seem familiar with Ukraine.

You are a cretin, pure and simple, and you're bringing down the board. At this point, you are just leeching value with your parody-esque style which you imagine to be the way a man of substance writes.

Enjoy your fantasy land of being the only big baller in Ukraine. With all do (sic) respect.

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08-17-2019 09:16 AM
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ArloDash Offline
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
(08-16-2019 03:24 PM)Captain_Crunch Wrote:  I have a good friend who retired in Lviv 5 years ago. He bought a 4th story converted apartment (approx 2500 sq ft) for $330K. It sits just on the edge of the city center. Beautiful place, 4BR, 2-1/2 Bath, Office, huge balcony overlooking the city, elevator that drops him off inside his apt. 2 fireplaces (1 in M-BR), surround sound, gourmet kitchen. The works. Other residents in the building told him had he moved in just 2 years prior he could have purchased for under $240K. Lviv has been growing in a good way while maintaining its medieval charm. It is becoming the tech mecha of Ukraine as now Oracle, Intellus, softserve and many others taking root bringing excellent jobs to the community. With it Starbucks, posh cafes, craft breweries, boutique shops etc. are springing up also bringing big investors. To cut to the chase, my friend was recently offered $750K for his apartment by a German businessman living in Lviv. Trust me, Lviv is becoming the true player in Ukraine by leaps and bounds. It too is no longer a place an expat should consider unless loaded. Also, he says the quality of ladies has improved dramatically over the past years. No doubt. Ukrainian ladies will follow the money. He additionally said that the ladies of Lviv do not even bat an eye to foreigners as money is everywhere in the city. He said there are ladies he sees daily, tall, blonde, perfect bodies, cultured, and very, very high maintenance. In other words when in Lviv, you may as well be in Paris, Oslo, Rome, Newport Beach.... get the picture? Just food for thought.

I lived there for a year and wrote a datasheet about it.

Lviv is dry and boring as hell after a while.

Most families are poor as fuck, making $400 a month. Teaching English online can net you a near-luxury existence.

Not somewhere as expat should consider unless loaded? Man, you are 100% incorrect. Please do not say such things without actually knowing. It is one of the cheapest places in Europe. It's literally right next to India in terms of pricing.

It's ridiculously cheap. I was paying $375 a month for a new apartment.

Your friend got ripped and is feeding you bad information.
08-17-2019 09:41 AM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
I cannot get over this guy saying Lviv is a place for rich people.

That is the most misinformed thing I have ever read on this forum. It is literally like you are trying to say the exact opposite of what is true.

I'm not trying to be a cunt here but I'm really gonna have to correct you because of how wrong that statement is.

Lviv is the cheapest place I have ever lived in my life.

Here's a breakdown of my costs while living there a few months ago:

Rent: $375
Bills: $60
Nice Dinner For Two: $30
Business Lunch: $5
Cocktail: $4-6
Beer: .80 cents - $1
Gourmet Cappucino: $2
Gym: $15 / month
08-17-2019 09:47 AM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
Anyways can we please stop talking about Lviv? I'm trying to get insights into Kyiv housing market.
08-17-2019 09:50 AM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
@RawGod, LOL, easy big boy. Just painting a little reality into the equation. I was in Ukraine last summer, and that was just to visit my buddy in Lviv. I have predominately worked in Africa over the past few years, and would honestly recommend it wholeheartedly to those who may have struggled landing higher quality ladies in Europe.

I am in constant contact with my buddy who has lived in Lviv just over 5 years now, as well as a couple locals from The Rener group (renewable energy firm in Ukraine). I have resisted posting in the past, as I do not enjoy deflating the bubble of others. No harm in dreaming. What I do try to infuse, is reality that an average Joe who has to scrimp and save to fly to Kyiv to spend a few weeks, does not set themselves up for failure, getting laughed at by groups of women, trying to get his "game" on, as I have seen more times than I can count.

There are two things Ukrainian women like, looks and money. Personality does not matter as much. If you are overweight, bald, your rate of success just sunk to 5%, for the average women!! If goodlooking, and have a good residual income or retirement, you are in the ballgame.Also, forget about this myth of average Joes landing hotties 10-15 years younger, pure BS. If the guy is young, goodlooking and loaded, then the answer is yes, because he has the two things Ukrainian women value most, looks and money. My buddy in Lviv is in that category, and believes he is in paradise. Hope this draws a clearer picture for you.
08-17-2019 09:52 AM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
@ArloDash, what did you pay for a beer at the Pravda Beer Theater or dinner at Kryjivka? Or a yearly membership at Eurosport? Why do you think Oracle opened a huge facility in Lviv, or the tech firm "Ring", owned by Amazon, is to opening its second office in Lviv? Come on folks, you are supposed to be the experts here, LOL. Don't make me take a no confidence vote.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2019 10:13 AM by Captain_Crunch.)
08-17-2019 10:01 AM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
[qdasasdasdada
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08-17-2019 10:03 AM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
(08-17-2019 10:01 AM)Captain_Crunch Wrote:  @ArloDash, what did you pay for a beer at the Pravda Beer Theater or dinner at Kryjivka. Or a yearly membership at Eurosport? Just asking?

Yearly at Eurosport goes down to like $60 a month if paid for an entire year. Monthly it is expensive, like $90 or so. That place is an anomaly in my opinion, though. That price is in no way indicative of the rest of the town.

I didn't go there much, I went to Olympus Premium next to Rynok Square which was $15.

Pravda is mega reasonable man. I don't remember ever paying more than 80 UAH for a beer there. So maybe $2.
08-17-2019 10:09 AM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
(08-17-2019 10:01 AM)Captain_Crunch Wrote:  @ArloDash, what did you pay for a beer at the Pravda Beer Theater or dinner at Kryjivka. Or a yearly membership at Eurosport? Why do you think Oracle opened a huge facility in Lviv, or the tech firm "Ring", owned by Amazon, is to opening its second office in Lviv? Come on folks, you are supposed to be the experts here, LOL. Don't make me take a no confidence vote.

Kryjivka? It was a little more pricey, but not more than $15 for one person.

If I'm honest, you've chosen all of the places that tourists go to without actually knowing the town.

Yes, obviously that's a big hub for outsourcing, but that does not automatically translate into prices automatically going up. There's still a reason that those big companies are opening offices in Ukraine: labor is cheap. Those companies are still paying workers very low wages.

I'm not sure why this has gotten so heated and you seem like a good guy so I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but this argument is honestly pretty ridiculous man.

Lviv is #337 out of 377 cities on the global cost of living index.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings.jsp

My entire lifestyle there was less than $1,500 a month, usually more like $1,200. This included frequent meals out, lots of dates, going to the bar, taxis everywhere, etc.

I am not sure why you think it is so expensive when there's so much evidence to the contrary.

Here's my datasheet if you care to read through it:

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-72448.html
08-17-2019 10:18 AM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
(08-17-2019 07:24 AM)Captain_Crunch Wrote:  BangBoy123: you are correct, I was confusing Kredens Cafe with Starbucks. But let me be clear, let us not try to compare your "field trips" to Ukraine with the many months I have worked there in renewable energy over the years, to include Kyiv, Lviv, Sevastopol (Crimea) and other regions.So please save your dismissive remarks, as you only make yourself appear foolish. In fact, that is how my former work compatriot decided to retire in Lviv, was offshore assignments to Ukraine through the global renewable energy corp we worked for.

My suggestion has always been to people of moderate means, you are better off staying at home or relocating to South America, Africa or parts of Asia. If you have to grimace over cost of living, and concern yourself with the demeanor of ladies there, it quite simply means you are out of your depth and will only find frustration. I am sorry if this sounds harsh, however high quality ladies in any part of Europe living in the metropolitan areas, or posh enclaves, are not going to show interest in a guy who is constantly checking his wallet or bargain shopping (rent, etc.). It is just the way it is.

If you were to look through my forum history, then you would see that my experience is extensive in the country and nothing to do with "field trips"

And your work in renewable energy doesn't make your opinions anymore worthwhile I'm afraid.

Not sure how you could mistake Starbucks with Kredens tbh.

Funny that you think people need to be "loaded" to live in Europe's poorest country. Go tell the babushka on the street selling apples that she needs to be making 20k usd a month minimum. A decent online online income of a few grand a month is enough to attract the attentions of the ladies, as long as you're prepared to spend.

Why would someone with "moderate means" feel like Ukraine's poorest country is not a place in which he can have a good life.

Is there any middle ground between moderate means and loaded?
08-17-2019 10:22 AM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
Let's meet in the middle and agree Lviv has "haves" and "have nots". The only thing I was trying to convey in my original post was there is a high influx of investment being made in Lviv, as the intent is to transform it into something resembling an Oslo, Salzburg one day. My buddy says that is what many longtime residents are griping about. The cost of living is skyrocketing because of the improvements in infrastructure and many of the locals being resigned to relocate to cheaper cities or to the surrounding villages.
08-17-2019 10:22 AM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
Did I just read "Dinner at Krayivka"???

LOL

Crunch the loaded baller who works in renewable energy, maybe he's recycling the grease from the kitchen!
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2019 10:26 AM by BangBoy123.)
08-17-2019 10:25 AM
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RE: Kiev Housing Prices
(08-17-2019 09:52 AM)Captain_Crunch Wrote:  @RawGod, LOL, easy big boy. Just painting a little reality into the equation. I was in Ukraine last summer, and that was just to visit my buddy in Lviv. I have predominately worked in Africa over the past few years, and would honestly recommend it wholeheartedly to those who may have struggled landing higher quality ladies in Europe.

I am in constant contact with my buddy who has lived in Lviv just over 5 years now, as well as a couple locals from The Rener group (renewable energy firm in Ukraine). I have resisted posting in the past, as I do not enjoy deflating the bubble of others. No harm in dreaming. What I do try to infuse, is reality that an average Joe who has to scrimp and save to fly to Kyiv to spend a few weeks, does not set themselves up for failure, getting laughed at by groups of women, trying to get his "game" on, as I have seen more times than I can count.

There are two things Ukrainian women like, looks and money. Personality does not matter as much. If you are overweight, bald, your rate of success just sunk to 5%, for the average women!! If goodlooking, and have a good residual income or retirement, you are in the ballgame.Also, forget about this myth of average Joes landing hotties 10-15 years younger, pure BS. If the guy is young, goodlooking and loaded, then the answer is yes, because he has the two things Ukrainian women value most, looks and money. My buddy in Lviv is in that category, and believes he is in paradise. Hope this draws a clearer picture for you.

I'm gonna derail my own thread again.

Yeah, to be fair if you wanna do well in Ukraine you really have to be a guy who kind of has it together. I'll agree with you there. I went there as a bit more of an "average" guy and being there really motivated me to make more money, look better, be in the gym, etc.

It's kind of hilarious when busted American dudes roll up to EE and talk about "all the hot chicks," when really, they're not fucking any of them and the best they can do is pull a 5 for an LTR.

Even lots of my friends would bang 6's and below and talk about how awesome it is. I see no point in that as you could just fuck ugly girls in the United States if that's your game.

So yes, we will agree that you do not benefit from going to Ukraine as a busted basic dude and thinking it's the land of pussy. If anything, it's more work to get laid there and you have to have a pretty dedicated fetish for those girls to wanna stick it out for that reason alone.
08-17-2019 10:26 AM
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