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How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
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pk9090 Offline
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Post: #1
How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
I've started to get more interested in getting girls and bettering myself after I finish my university degree.

Meanwhile 3 years have gone by and I got better at getting girls and talking with people which is a nice thing in itself, in that process I changed for the best I think. Became good at talking with people and can control my voice better now.

But deep down I'm still the same guy, just honed my skills and learned in some situations (night and vacation game) how to properly play the position to get the girl (sometimes lying about stuff like where I'm from and what's my age or what I do for a living). I feel that sometimes I just let myself go and become another person, which might be enough for the night or the day to get the girl, but it's not who I am.

Recently I've been thinking about a situation where I met this super cute 10/10 Swedish girl and I done a lot to get her, managed to get some kisses but couldn't seal the deal, got the feeling she wanted some caveman game to fuk her which is not my thing to be honest. The next week, I see her with this guy that I know which has a really smooth game mainly based in his height (6'5) and nice beard which I'm pretty sure didn't have to do caveman game.

How much is too much in what you have to change in order to get what you want.

I feel that I'm becoming weaker in my willpower to cope with this kind of situations and this is probably the year which I've fucked the most. The more I know and experience, the more I feel I'm lacking.
08-29-2019 06:34 AM
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GT777733 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
(08-29-2019 06:34 AM)pk9090 Wrote:  I've started to get more interested in getting girls and bettering myself after I finish my university degree.

Meanwhile 3 years have gone by and I got better at getting girls and talking with people which is a nice thing in itself, in that process I changed for the best I think. Became good at talking with people and can control my voice better now.

But deep down I'm still the same guy, just honed my skills and learned in some situations (night and vacation game) how to properly play the position to get the girl (sometimes lying about stuff like where I'm from and what's my age or what I do for a living). I feel that sometimes I just let myself go and become another person, which might be enough for the night or the day to get the girl, but it's not who I am.

Recently I've been thinking about a situation where I met this super cute 10/10 Swedish girl and I done a lot to get her, managed to get some kisses but couldn't seal the deal, got the feeling she wanted some caveman game to fuk her which is not my thing to be honest. The next week, I see her with this guy that I know which has a really smooth game mainly based in his height (6'5) and nice beard which I'm pretty sure didn't have to do caveman game.

How much is too much in what you have to change in order to get what you want.

I feel that I'm becoming weaker in my willpower to cope with this kind of situations and this is probably the year which I've fucked the most. The more I know and experience, the more I feel I'm lacking.

This is a very good question in my opinion (you might find 90% of pickup/player guys never ask themselves this question ever, or leave it until they are much later in life - it requires some level of conscious and self aware thinking to ask it to yourself and actually do something about it)

I think you could ask this question about many areas of life - dating, money and career success, health, social, and so on

In regards to dating specifically, a few points:

- 'Pickup' is really just a set of mindsets, actions and a lifestyle that you can mimic to get attention, time and casual encounters from women

The problem is - many men get into pickup and have gaping holes in other areas of their life. So, they will find it very hard to keep a truly good woman if they get to the LTR stage, if they haven't worked on the other 'core' areas of their life.

Pickup is a very isolated set of skills and tools - it doesn't help you increase your core value in many life areas.

This is why a lot of pickup guys end up hollow - their life is very one dimensional.

There is more to life than upgrading your dating skillset.

- Some guys do better picking up women organically and by leading with their core value

Don't get me wrong, some guys are happy and actually better off running pickup for most of their life and meeting and interacting with women that way. Some guys also remain lifelong players (or some variation of the casual lifestyle)

But, some guys don't resonate with that naturally - they want something that feels more organic and less gimmicky/salesly, or less short term and less like a disposable lifestyle. They want more meaning and fulfillment

They want to be themselves to get women, and not have to play a character (which can be exhausting).

The way to do this is working on your core value and lifting the standard of who you are as a person in terms of what you offer and the lifestyle you live.

To do this - you have to start addressing all areas of your life, and not just dating and health for example. You'll eventually have to live the type of lifestyle that you find most appealing, and the type of women and people you're most interested in will find appealing. This is a long term thing - think years, or decade/s.

- So - how much can you change yourself without losing yourself?

Well, you have to ask yourself two questions:
1. What can I attract naturally into my life as the person I am right now
2. What would I have to do to bring the things into my life that I want - and, is it worth it?

You are eventually going to reach a 'sweet spot' where you understand from a core values point of view what you will and won't do in the different areas of your life to get what you want. You may decide certain things are worth changing for, whilst others aren't. That's where you have to learn to sacrifice some things, and accept some things. This is all part of becoming a mature human and developing your real identity in my opinion.

Also, understand the difference between what you want and what you need.

Personally, as I've matured, I realised that a lot of the things I wanted weren't what I thought they were, and can be destructive for me long term. One of those things is female attention - you realise how cheap this attention (from most girls) can be and you re-evaluate how much time and effort you are willing to put in to obtain it (and what you put that new time and effort into).

So, that might be part of the next maturation stage of your life - finding out what you want, and what you actually need - and doing what you need to do to balance those things as you see fit.

*Note - this is a very rough answer. I haven't gone back over and perfected it, but it outlines some key points. Also, remind yourself that pickup is a tool, and dating and women is just one area of life. Use them and invest in them as you see fit around the rest of your life.
You may end up deciding overall fulfillment in life is more important than short term thrills and gratification (but, again, you might find a way to balance these things too)
(This post was last modified: 08-29-2019 07:38 AM by GT777733.)
08-29-2019 07:36 AM
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iThinkThereforeIam Offline
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Post: #3
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
Ask yourself: What is even your true self?

Mostly it's just how you have always acted, how you have always dressed etc. based on your social class and available financial resources.

Most guys need paradigm shifts so strong and pushing the limits so hard to get anywhere near real success that it's WAAAAAY out of their comfort zone.

And I'm not talking about approaching X women but sleeping on a street corner and staying in a 5 star hotel the next day type stuff.

Starting MMA and doing serious MMA fights etc. (this will help with caveman comfort)

If you act a certain way for some time it will eventually become natural to you.

Traveling while staying in hostels can help if you're relatively young and inexperienced.
(This post was last modified: 08-29-2019 11:03 AM by iThinkThereforeIam.)
08-29-2019 11:00 AM
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pk9090 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
(08-29-2019 11:00 AM)iThinkThereforeIam Wrote:  Ask yourself: What is even your true self?

Mostly it's just how you have always acted, how you have always dressed etc. based on your social class and available financial resources.

Most guys need paradigm shifts so strong and pushing the limits so hard to get anywhere near real success that it's WAAAAAY out of their comfort zone.

And I'm not talking about approaching X women but sleeping on a street corner and staying in a 5 star hotel the next day type stuff.

Starting MMA and doing serious MMA fights etc. (this will help with caveman comfort)

If you act a certain way for some time it will eventually become natural to you.

Traveling while staying in hostels can help if you're relatively young and inexperienced.

Already practiced boxing for some years and did travel for several months only in hostels, I agree that becomes natural but all fades once you go back to your natural environment, maybe I need to change my city.
08-29-2019 11:29 AM
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outback Offline
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Post: #5
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
Take this diatribe as truthful, or condescending, or cheesy, whatever:

Your current feeling is normal in building a new skill and changing as a person. It's vital. The Swedish 10 is in another league compared to the 6s you could comfortably pull while hanging out with your old friends, so it's going to challenge you.
You're realising the comfort and confidence your home surroundings gave you were necessary only to guide you to adulthood, but the world really has so many things that are much better than the things you were told were good, and that's really uncomfortable. Are the things you thought were good for you, actually the best for you?

Is your core identity just a product of your satisfying, but normal, natural environment? Yes.
Raise a Cambodian orphan in a wealthy, stable country and they can do anything. Raise them in Phnom Penh and they probably can't. You can now get your dead pet cloned in China, but the company warns that the clone won't be the same as it'll have different developmental experiences to the original.
So basically, you're realising your identity is transitory, and it's a weird feeling. But there's no reason to stop going after what you know you can ultimately accomplish, because you'll never be able to again know the comfort you did in your naive youth, which you crave. Everyone wants to be comfortable.

You almost had the Swedish 10. Only by challenging yourself with her did you give yourself a shot at knowing if you could or couldn't get her, and why. You now know you've these weaknesses, which you can fix, so conquering her is now achievable, whereas before it was unimaginable, you didn't even know what it required for you to it (not someone else to do it).

And importantly she didn't notice these weaknesses. You did, and you stopped yourself going further with her - you have two hands, and your ancestors used to be cavemen - what else stopped you? You felt you didn't deserve her. So you need to overcome these weaknesses that are obviously important to you before you'll trust yourself in a high stakes situation for yourself like this one with the Swede.

Can you do this in your natural environment? Will people who know your established identity allow you to change? Doubt it, as their comfort hinges on you being who they expect you to be.

What's really important for your willpower is to not lose all the comforts that energise you and make you feel good, the ones from your childhood that led you into adulthood. Cherish them but keep them as just a part of your life, not the main game.
08-29-2019 12:49 PM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #6
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
Changing yourself is painful.

You have to force yourself to do things you don't want to do.

If you are overcoming self imposed or society imposed limitations it hurts, it doesn't feel wrong.

When you betray your core values, it feels wrong.

My experience is that it is better not to reach some goals and hold onto your values than it is to do whatever it takes to get what you want.

That's where you draw the line.

You can feel it in your bones.

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08-29-2019 12:56 PM
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Batman_ Offline
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Post: #7
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
There is no true self. Personality is just an act, the word "persona" originally meant a mask, an image. The ego is not a real thing but a social institution made for convenience.

(08-29-2019 12:56 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  Changing yourself is painful.

You have to force yourself to do things you don't want to do.

If you are overcoming self imposed or society imposed limitations it hurts, it doesn't feel wrong.

When you betray your core values, it feels wrong.

My experience is that it is better not to reach some goals and hold onto your values than it is to do whatever it takes to get what you want.

That's where you draw the line.

You can feel it in your bones.

I would agree, but you can change your values too (which is also hard).

"I drink only the finest breast milks."
"That's 100% Cambodian."
(This post was last modified: 08-29-2019 06:09 PM by Batman_.)
08-29-2019 06:06 PM
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Rocha Offline
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Post: #8
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
I believe that some girls are just not meant to be. There are other around who are.

You kissed a 10/10 swedish girl... most guys don't get anywhere close.

I always see the glass half full though...

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08-29-2019 06:27 PM
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Kid Twist Offline
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Post: #9
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
I challenge the "true self" from a behavioral point of view

There is only a metaphysical true self, and that is the ultimate human form, to be complete and that is material and spirit, but we generally deny and lack the latter (myself included)

Epigenetics even in this world show you that there is no true self. You become something different each time you do something. Let's choose something that's more productive for the long, long run --- hopefully the eternal race.

Get your passport ready!
08-29-2019 06:53 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #10
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
There is no need to change yourself too much. However it's a form of becoming a stronger version of yourself. The strong silent one does not need to become a caveman. There are plenty of silent tools to do it naturally - just taking her hand, leading her outside, putting two arms to the wall and pinning her thus down without really pinning her down against the wall, then kissing her. All of this is done without a word being uttered and in full compliance.

Very few men have maxxed out their Game potential. Sometimes girls are way more into other types and those guys need far less seduction skill in order to seal the deal, but that is life. We do the best with what he have been given.
08-30-2019 10:08 AM
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TheFinalEpic Offline
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Post: #11
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
What if you are just finding your true potential, and that's always what you were. Maybe by changing yourself you are finding your true self.

"Money over bitches, nigga stick to the script." - Jay-Z
They gonna love me for my ambition.
08-30-2019 11:08 AM
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Cobra Offline
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Post: #12
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
(08-30-2019 10:08 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  There is no need to change yourself too much. However it's a form of becoming a stronger version of yourself. The strong silent one does not need to become a caveman. There are plenty of silent tools to do it naturally - just taking her hand, leading her outside, putting two arms to the wall and pinning her thus down without really pinning her down against the wall, then kissing her. All of this is done without a word being uttered and in full compliance.

Very few men have maxxed out their Game potential. Sometimes girls are way more into other types and those guys need far less seduction skill in order to seal the deal, but that is life. We do the best with what he have been given.

I disagree with this 100%. First you say you don't need yo change much and then you say use "silent tools" to take her hand and lead her. What in heavens are silent tools? Laugh

Do you realize how much most guys need to actually change to do this? Not sure if this post was a joke. If so you got me.

If not, ths sounds like advice with no basis or experience.

Change is a journey for most people and most of us go through major changes already regardless of women. The issue is that isolating change just to get women is shallow and the focus on yourself is consequently lost.

Approaching a bunch of girls in and of itself won't assist that change. You need to ensure you are confident and comfortable with yourself. Let's call this "inner game," a concept that seems to have been lost.

OP, when you're into yourself and adding value to your self (eg, lifting, doing well at work, fashion, social skills) then you will not feel this way. Your inner game will be strong. The ratio of adding value to your own self to providing your time to women needs to be high. I take it that in your scenario it is currently low.

Sure approaching a 100 quality women will help you land a couple no matter what but that's a lot of opportunity cost in what you lose in maybe gym time or money time. You flip this ratio around and trust me you will run into more women that are into you than before.

So the question is: Did you come here to have us make you feel better? Or, did you come asking for actionable advice?

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(This post was last modified: 08-30-2019 12:15 PM by Cobra.)
08-30-2019 12:14 PM
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BlackFriar Offline
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Post: #13
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
Your true self, your identity is the kind of person...deep down that you "decide" to be.
09-01-2019 12:51 PM
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #14
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
(08-29-2019 07:36 AM)GT777733 Wrote:  
(08-29-2019 06:34 AM)pk9090 Wrote:  I've started to get more interested in getting girls and bettering myself after I finish my university degree.

Meanwhile 3 years have gone by and I got better at getting girls and talking with people which is a nice thing in itself, in that process I changed for the best I think. Became good at talking with people and can control my voice better now.

But deep down I'm still the same guy, just honed my skills and learned in some situations (night and vacation game) how to properly play the position to get the girl (sometimes lying about stuff like where I'm from and what's my age or what I do for a living). I feel that sometimes I just let myself go and become another person, which might be enough for the night or the day to get the girl, but it's not who I am.

Recently I've been thinking about a situation where I met this super cute 10/10 Swedish girl and I done a lot to get her, managed to get some kisses but couldn't seal the deal, got the feeling she wanted some caveman game to fuk her which is not my thing to be honest. The next week, I see her with this guy that I know which has a really smooth game mainly based in his height (6'5) and nice beard which I'm pretty sure didn't have to do caveman game.

How much is too much in what you have to change in order to get what you want.

I feel that I'm becoming weaker in my willpower to cope with this kind of situations and this is probably the year which I've fucked the most. The more I know and experience, the more I feel I'm lacking.

This is a very good question in my opinion (you might find 90% of pickup/player guys never ask themselves this question ever, or leave it until they are much later in life - it requires some level of conscious and self aware thinking to ask it to yourself and actually do something about it)

I think you could ask this question about many areas of life - dating, money and career success, health, social, and so on

In regards to dating specifically, a few points:

- 'Pickup' is really just a set of mindsets, actions and a lifestyle that you can mimic to get attention, time and casual encounters from women

The problem is - many men get into pickup and have gaping holes in other areas of their life. So, they will find it very hard to keep a truly good woman if they get to the LTR stage, if they haven't worked on the other 'core' areas of their life.

Pickup is a very isolated set of skills and tools - it doesn't help you increase your core value in many life areas.

This is why a lot of pickup guys end up hollow - their life is very one dimensional.

There is more to life than upgrading your dating skillset.

- Some guys do better picking up women organically and by leading with their core value

Don't get me wrong, some guys are happy and actually better off running pickup for most of their life and meeting and interacting with women that way. Some guys also remain lifelong players (or some variation of the casual lifestyle)

But, some guys don't resonate with that naturally - they want something that feels more organic and less gimmicky/salesly, or less short term and less like a disposable lifestyle. They want more meaning and fulfillment

They want to be themselves to get women, and not have to play a character (which can be exhausting).

The way to do this is working on your core value and lifting the standard of who you are as a person in terms of what you offer and the lifestyle you live.

To do this - you have to start addressing all areas of your life, and not just dating and health for example. You'll eventually have to live the type of lifestyle that you find most appealing, and the type of women and people you're most interested in will find appealing. This is a long term thing - think years, or decade/s.

- So - how much can you change yourself without losing yourself?

Well, you have to ask yourself two questions:
1. What can I attract naturally into my life as the person I am right now
2. What would I have to do to bring the things into my life that I want - and, is it worth it?

You are eventually going to reach a 'sweet spot' where you understand from a core values point of view what you will and won't do in the different areas of your life to get what you want. You may decide certain things are worth changing for, whilst others aren't. That's where you have to learn to sacrifice some things, and accept some things. This is all part of becoming a mature human and developing your real identity in my opinion.

Also, understand the difference between what you want and what you need.

Personally, as I've matured, I realised that a lot of the things I wanted weren't what I thought they were, and can be destructive for me long term. One of those things is female attention - you realise how cheap this attention (from most girls) can be and you re-evaluate how much time and effort you are willing to put in to obtain it (and what you put that new time and effort into).

So, that might be part of the next maturation stage of your life - finding out what you want, and what you actually need - and doing what you need to do to balance those things as you see fit.

*Note - this is a very rough answer. I haven't gone back over and perfected it, but it outlines some key points. Also, remind yourself that pickup is a tool, and dating and women is just one area of life. Use them and invest in them as you see fit around the rest of your life.
You may end up deciding overall fulfillment in life is more important than short term thrills and gratification (but, again, you might find a way to balance these things too)

I like to think of it as "uncovering my real self". I've gone through some change during last half year.

I recently had an Eureka moment at the counter of the golf club, when I was doing casual small talk with a hot young girl, who just started working there and got a bit shy around me, so I built a little bit of rapport without even thinking about it, while she was struggling with the cash register. I didn't have game on my mind at all, nor any intent - I just stocked up on drinks and golf balls, then moved on.

It took a bit until the thought process kicked in during that interaction: "Wait a minute! What the heck is just happening?" Half a year old me came out in total disbelief: "Hey, weren't you the socially awkward guy playing video games, being intimidated by and walking on eggshells around girls, especially hot ones?"

Yet I'm not playing some character. It is real me: confident, smiling and behaving entirely natural, even outside the comfort zone, not giving a fuck what she thinks about me, after taking a cold shower in the morning. I got surprised by this, because I don't really feel much different doing so. In fact I feel like the exact same guy I used to be, when I'm sitting at home behind a screen writing on these forums.

It's hard to pinpoint what changed, but I think it has something to do with me starting to like who I am and what I do, despite living outside societal norms. I actually dropped the mask and became myself. I still have no game to speak of, but it's a day and night difference already.
09-04-2019 11:12 PM
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MichaelWitcoff Offline
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Post: #15
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
Guys tend to get better at certain things in the process of learning social dynamics, but any real change occurring to the person's fundamental "self" probably depends on how exactly you do it. Especially with the old school days of PUA, back when Mystery was doing his show and essentially teaching people to "play a character." He even said once that the PUA character is basically something you "switch on" in the presence of a woman you're interested in, which is basically admitting that his style is more play-acting than anything else. After that you got the "inner game" type thing getting big, probably in response to the fact that the Mystery style wasn't causing people to change much in the core of their being / over-reliance on routines and canned material, which had the two major problems that: A. Girls were starting to recognize the routines and material from The Game and so many PUAs using the same stuff, and B. Guys were miserable because girls never actually liked them for who they were but only for the mask they wore. That's the situation some of those guys are *still* in decades later.

Whatever path you take, eventually you realize that what women actually want is basically just a normal, cool guy with social skills who brings value to the situations and people he's involved in. This is very difficult for a lot of guys to grasp because the kind of guy drawn to that material is generally not wired neurotypically and doesn't process social situations in the same intuitive way many "naturals" do. But it can be learned.

And then after that you realize none of it matters anyway and that your time is far better spent on other things completely.

Return Of Kings contributor and best-selling author of "On The Mason And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2019 02:39 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
09-05-2019 02:37 AM
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RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
(09-05-2019 02:37 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  And then after that you realize none of it matters anyway and that your time is far better spent on other things completely.

Those of us who suspected this to start (it is wisdom), and who know this for sure right now, understand how much there is in this "non-answer".

I say without too much pomp because I realize and do believe in the saying, "The wise man is who knows what is right, and does it." And I have disregarded it before, which is self condemning, I must admit.

Suffice to say that the problem has become a vast, complex cultural issue. For the purposes of this forum, the modern day really damaged women and made what should be simple interactions, problematic; what used to be natural and obvious became highly selected and isolating.

In sane times, everyone knew his and her role. No longer (for now).

Get your passport ready!
09-06-2019 11:20 AM
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Post: #17
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
(08-30-2019 12:14 PM)Cobra Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 10:08 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  There is no need to change yourself too much. However it's a form of becoming a stronger version of yourself. The strong silent one does not need to become a caveman. There are plenty of silent tools to do it naturally - just taking her hand, leading her outside, putting two arms to the wall and pinning her thus down without really pinning her down against the wall, then kissing her. All of this is done without a word being uttered and in full compliance.

Very few men have maxxed out their Game potential. Sometimes girls are way more into other types and those guys need far less seduction skill in order to seal the deal, but that is life. We do the best with what he have been given.

I disagree with this 100%. First you say you don't need yo change much and then you say use "silent tools" to take her hand and lead her. What in heavens are silent tools? Laugh

Do you realize how much most guys need to actually change to do this? Not sure if this post was a joke. If so you got me.

If not, ths sounds like advice with no basis or experience.

Change is a journey for most people and most of us go through major changes already regardless of women. The issue is that isolating change just to get women is shallow and the focus on yourself is consequently lost.

Approaching a bunch of girls in and of itself won't assist that change. You need to ensure you are confident and comfortable with yourself. Let's call this "inner game," a concept that seems to have been lost.

OP, when you're into yourself and adding value to your self (eg, lifting, doing well at work, fashion, social skills) then you will not feel this way. Your inner game will be strong. The ratio of adding value to your own self to providing your time to women needs to be high. I take it that in your scenario it is currently low.

Sure approaching a 100 quality women will help you land a couple no matter what but that's a lot of opportunity cost in what you lose in maybe gym time or money time. You flip this ratio around and trust me you will run into more women that are into you than before.

So the question is: Did you come here to have us make you feel better? Or, did you come asking for actionable advice?

No idea what the bloody hell you mean here.

If you are shy and introverted, then going to the club or any group setting is suicide.

However - most introverted guys have no issue when it's 1 on 1 with a girl, so long as they overcome that step of talking to a hot girl. That has to be learned, but you are still dealing 1 on 1 in a Daygame approach. So that technique is better suited for the introverted guy.

Obviously you need to become a stronger version of yourself and that is what I meant.

And what the bloody hell is that term of "leading her away silently"? Does not make a lick of sense. There are even cases in a seducation process where you can lead a girl away without a word with enough conviction, but she would have to be into you first in order to do it and you would have to have enough understand of the process to see the right signs for it.

So yes - you become a stronger version of yourself even if that to a noob sounds as if you became a different person. Most high-end PUA like Krauser are introverted - they just went through the process in order to do their thing, but that does not mean that they enjoy being in the extroverted limelight.
09-06-2019 11:25 AM
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Cobra Offline
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Post: #18
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
(09-06-2019 11:25 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 12:14 PM)Cobra Wrote:  
(08-30-2019 10:08 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  There is no need to change yourself too much. However it's a form of becoming a stronger version of yourself. The strong silent one does not need to become a caveman. There are plenty of silent tools to do it naturally - just taking her hand, leading her outside, putting two arms to the wall and pinning her thus down without really pinning her down against the wall, then kissing her. All of this is done without a word being uttered and in full compliance.

Very few men have maxxed out their Game potential. Sometimes girls are way more into other types and those guys need far less seduction skill in order to seal the deal, but that is life. We do the best with what he have been given.

I disagree with this 100%. First you say you don't need yo change much and then you say use "silent tools" to take her hand and lead her. What in heavens are silent tools? Laugh

Do you realize how much most guys need to actually change to do this? Not sure if this post was a joke. If so you got me.

If not, ths sounds like advice with no basis or experience.

Change is a journey for most people and most of us go through major changes already regardless of women. The issue is that isolating change just to get women is shallow and the focus on yourself is consequently lost.

Approaching a bunch of girls in and of itself won't assist that change. You need to ensure you are confident and comfortable with yourself. Let's call this "inner game," a concept that seems to have been lost.

OP, when you're into yourself and adding value to your self (eg, lifting, doing well at work, fashion, social skills) then you will not feel this way. Your inner game will be strong. The ratio of adding value to your own self to providing your time to women needs to be high. I take it that in your scenario it is currently low.

Sure approaching a 100 quality women will help you land a couple no matter what but that's a lot of opportunity cost in what you lose in maybe gym time or money time. You flip this ratio around and trust me you will run into more women that are into you than before.

So the question is: Did you come here to have us make you feel better? Or, did you come asking for actionable advice?

No idea what the bloody hell you mean here.

If you are shy and introverted, then going to the club or any group setting is suicide.

However - most introverted guys have no issue when it's 1 on 1 with a girl, so long as they overcome that step of talking to a hot girl. That has to be learned, but you are still dealing 1 on 1 in a Daygame approach. So that technique is better suited for the introverted guy.

Obviously you need to become a stronger version of yourself and that is what I meant.

And what the bloody hell is that term of "leading her away silently"? Does not make a lick of sense. There are even cases in a seducation process where you can lead a girl away without a word with enough conviction, but she would have to be into you first in order to do it and you would have to have enough understand of the process to see the right signs for it.

So yes - you become a stronger version of yourself even if that to a noob sounds as if you became a different person. Most high-end PUA like Krauser are introverted - they just went through the process in order to do their thing, but that does not mean that they enjoy being in the extroverted limelight.

You sound confused. You seem to either contradict yourself or just bad sentence structure.

I'm not talking about high level theories of what worked for Krauser and what "should" work for others. You're not Krauser and neither am I. I'm referring to my own experiences here. You have to work on figuring out who you are. There are NOT that many guys I meet that can lead a girl away "silently" and bang her. Never seen it except maybe in college and/or everyone is drunk. Just not common. Game needs work. You're just reading PUA and forum posts and extrapolating it as fact.

As a matter of fact there are many "all knowing" types that come to the forum and provide people like the OP bad advice. By telling them they can reach some kind of game epiphany where they can be silent and bang girls, you make the path seem unachievable for them. These types usually don't have much game experience and they haven't met very few or no one else on the forum. People like OP need realistic and reasonable steps to continue the process without giving up. Men that know this need to encourage it and manlets that don't have experience need to stay away from these threads.

So before continuing further, Simeon or Zel, what is your experience in cold approaching or "silently leading" a woman? Forget that, have you hit the pavement and approached girls? How were your experiences. I don't see any one on your rep sheet that can vouch for it.

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09-12-2019 06:48 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #19
RE: How much change can you do to yourself without losing your true self
< Guess it's your reading comprehension that is off. I never mentioned about any strategy of leading a girl away silently. And I don't owe you any explanation or proof of my approach rep. You probably got triggered over the usual stuff with me that is not related to Game. Congrats on that.

Obviously when I talked about "silent tools" then I meant certain actions and body-language aside from talking with a girl. I have had enough experiences where I did not have to talk much aside from the first sentences, but the easy ones were the cases where the girls were instantly Yes-girls. Depending on the situation - a lot is conveyed without words. That does not mean however that you pull a girl away wordlessly.

Whatever... this is too dumb.
09-13-2019 02:01 AM
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