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Called Off My Wedding
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General Mayhem Offline
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Called Off My Wedding
I debated whether or not to share this story but I feel like it will be useful for a lot of guys on here.

I got engaged back in November and just called off the wedding set two weeks from now. We had been together just shy of 5 years. She came from a conservative background, parents stayed together, and also put her through private catholic school.

When I met her she was 19 and had recently dropped out of school to start working in corporate full time. Her dad got her a job working for some lady who sort of took her under her wing and she ran with it from there. Because of this she had no debt and was very good with saving money.

We started living together years ago, went through a couple apartments and then moved into her grandparent's old house to help her dad renovate it. I got along great with her parents and could talk as freely about politics as I do online bashing immigrants, tranny freaks, even jews.

Everything was full steam ahead towards marriage and kids. She had baby fever after spending time with one of my good friend's wife and their kids. Seeing her around kids was the happiest I ever saw her. Things were looking good.

Then, she got a new job working for the same woman who helped her out in the beginning. The job sucked her in and she became sort of a workaholic and started rolling in a circle with her boss and a few other middle aged women who were divorced, some remarried. They all had kids but for the most part the kids sounded fucked up. They were the type who always influenced her to go out to happy hours which was annoying to me.

The friends and the job started to sow some division and I convinced her to get a different job. However, that didn't really solve the issue. She still maintained contact with the old group of friends and would hang out with them from time to time.

I think eventually the influence of work and friends overtook the baby fever. The good influence of my friend's wife was on the other side of the country. Things came to a head. She said she only wanted one or two kids but would compromise on 3, and wouldn't stay home with them beyond the 8 weeks of maternity leave the company gives. This was a big step back from the conversations we had before that of having 4-6 kids.

Part of the issue is that throughout the relationship my values have gotten much more conservative. Things I would have been ok with a few years ago aren't ok anymore. I think if you are going to be in a committed relationship as a woman you shouldn't be going out and drinking apart from your husband.

I think that kids need more than 8 weeks of the mother's care before getting kicked off to the sitter. More and more it just seems crazy to outsource the raising of your kids. But, her opinion was that it's better to have the extra cash she gets from working and that she wouldn't give up the satisfaction she gets from her job. People always say that a woman's attitude changes after kids but you can't bank on that to happen.

I also pushed to get married in the church even though it wasn't what she wanted. She tried to go along with it but in the end I think it broke her a little bit. She wanted to do a destination wedding with just our parents which I thought was retarded compared to having the whole family there to have a real wedding.

I will admit that I neglected the relationship on some level to focus on this house I was remodeling with her dad. I should have made sure we were getting out often enough to do fun shit together but I just wanted to get the house to a point where we could live in it so I put the blinders on and just worked.

We have been civil about the whole thing and spent the last two days talking about what to do. Whether or not we would both be compromising too much to be happy. She said at one point that I don't appreciate the things that she values most about herself and she probably doesn't appreciate the things I value most about myself.

That was true. I don't give a shit about her career. I get that she doesn't feel like she can't come home and talk about some great thing she did at work but I just don't give a fuck. I like that she makes money but beyond that it means nothing. She always hated the women's empowerment bullshit at work and wasn't that type. She just really derived a lot of satisfaction from working. She doesn't appreciate the side of me that is long-winded and philosophical. I made peace with that a long time ago. We all know women aren't the best outlet for that type of discussion.

I think any guy who wants any semblance of a traditional relationship has to fight hard against the negative influences from modern society and from a girls friends. However, you can't do that alone. You need friends with wives, kids, and strong marriages that are good influences to surround your wife.

In the end it feels like I fought against modernism and lost, at least this round. I influenced her in a lot of ways that made her what I wanted, long hair, in shape, off birth control, even cultivated a little redneck in her, but in the end she bucked it. I didn't have enough firepower on my side.

She wasn't big into social media. No slutty instagram photos. No beta orbiters feeding her likes. She could never see why I hated shit like orange is the new black and lizzo songs. I knew she wasn't totally free from the influence of modern culture but I thought I got her far enough away and that was good enough.

Part of the problem is that she never took any time to shut off the noise and just reflect on life. She seemed allergic to it.

Even as I write this part of me questions if the compromises would have been worth it. She was still better than the vast majority of modern women. She never made me question whether or not I had to worry about another guy in her life. I was it ever since the start when she ditched every single one of her friends for me. Together we would have had a shitload of money and never had to worry about being poor. In the end I didn't think that was worth the cost of having someone else raise my kids and having to compete with the influence of this job and friends I hated.

So now I'm stepping back into the unknown. I've got to move out of this house, don't know where to. My job will let me work 100% remote so I could get out of the city if I wanted. My parents and extended family live in a town of about 20k a few hours outside the city. My first thought is to move back there for a while and figure out what to do. Maybe I will come back to the city but maybe not. I don't know what the quality of women is like in that town. I do know what the women are like in the city and plan to steer clear of that.

It's a tough situation because I really enjoyed being in a committed relationship. To me, it was way better than the life I had before that. Having multiple sluts are is fun, but one slut was better. Honestly, I'm not really excited to be single again. I don't feel like meeting anyone. Don't want to drink. Just want some time alone. That will probably change.

It's not lost on me that falling in love in the beginning is the fun part, getting to know her, that moment when she looks down at your lips a little too long and you realize you got her hooked. However, building a life with someone and all the adventures that come with that has proved to be even better.

I'm not going to attempt to extract a list of lessons learned right now so read this for what it is and maybe find something useful. I'm fully aware I probably could have done certain things to steer the relationship on a better course, maybe avoid this altogether.

The one thing I will say is that it reinforces the opinion that I already had that trying to have a traditional relationships puts you in a full on fight against the modern world. It's like a war where the enemy is all around you with their degenerate propaganda threatening to destroy what you are building. I don't say that to steer people away from relationships. I hate doomers. Just know what you are up against.

At some point I might revisit this and add some of the lessons but at this point I'm burnt out on it. For the first time in my life I've got nothing holding me anywhere. I am going to buy an enclosed trailer to put my shit in, hitch up to my truck and hit the road.
09-03-2019 12:00 PM
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redbeard Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Called Off My Wedding
Mad respect for sharing. It sounds like you made the right decision.

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09-03-2019 12:14 PM
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JiggyLordJr Offline
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RE: Called Off My Wedding
This is quite a profound tale. Really goes to show how easily an otherwise pure woman can be corrupted by outside forces. Namely, toxic female coworkers. It's sad to hear that after 5 years it has come to a breaking point, but I suppose a man's journey is always about tearing down and rebuilding again. It would be wise to spend a bit of time soul searching, and then hit the ground running in search of another quality woman. As a red-pilled man, you must do your best to shield your new woman from the evils of this world - treat any resistance like you would in the Garden of Eden. If you take the time to learn from your previous experience, I believe that you can do it better this time around. See your position as one of Atlas - her world will rest on your shoulders.
09-03-2019 01:18 PM
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Post: #4
RE: Called Off My Wedding
(09-03-2019 12:00 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  This was a big step back from the conversations we had before that of having 4-6 kids.

I dont think I know a single family or have heard of a family with 6 kids expect for Muslims of course. Most women now adays are career focused. Most office jobs are heavily female orientated. At my work place 60-70% of the employees are female. It becomes a feedback loop. Thanks for sharing.
09-03-2019 01:25 PM
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Captain Gh Offline
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RE: Called Off My Wedding
Only you know if you made the right decision... but from my point of view... Not! There's a negative to every positive... and the same applies for the Red Pill! Your expertise of the pill made you jump the gun I believe. To sum this up: you left her because she was drinking with some Girlfriends a couple times per week, and changed the # of children she wanted!

Didn't get fat, still respected you, and was happy overall! Unless you tried, and you guys had several fight about these topics... that's 2 - maybe 3 coaching sessions to clearly explain to her why her friends were losers (if they were) and why having lots of kids is best for you guys future... and get things back on track. Just like the military has to train a soldier into a 5 star general... you have to train your woman into an elite chick... and that's not easy... and it's definitely harder now in our culture!
09-03-2019 02:50 PM
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Dr. Howard Away
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Post: #6
RE: Called Off My Wedding
Op, you made a ballsy move. I don't know if it was the right move but you had to make one either way once you opened the can of worms. Staying silent would have just kept running things downhill. You have also captured the pain of modern marriage and women. Women think its a partnership of equals, but its not. One leads and one follows, if the follower won't submit, then there are problems. A modern woman has a very hard time understanding that it is still an honor to be Mike Pence when Donald Trump is president or that Melania has it good being the first lady. No, instead they think a marriage should be two presidents.

If you are not yet married, and this discussion is brutal, sure you can just leave, but if you are married then you have to have the entire fight, over multiple battles. You can't just Vietnam it and pull out when everyone gets tired.

Either way, you made a move, which I can respect.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
09-03-2019 03:12 PM
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Suits Offline
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RE: Called Off My Wedding
I've never been in a relationship that lasted for five years, but I have had a few breakups that were tough calls.

In the end, I never regretted following my gut instinct.

I occassionally see what those women look like now or the things that they post on Facebook and I think "I made the right choice."

I'm the King of Beijing!
09-03-2019 03:53 PM
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mr_ks Offline
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RE: Called Off My Wedding
Girl is only 24. She thinks she can wait 10years for kids. You have no leverage over her at all. At 24, she is getting more and 'adventurous' and less and less likely to settle down. Looks like you had her while she was still innocent and it was only a matter of time before she learned about typical female behaviours in the modern world.
09-03-2019 03:58 PM
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RE: Called Off My Wedding
I think that OP made the right call. But I could see it was tough based on the positives the girl had. In a marriage both parties need to be on the same page and have the same plan in mind, and it sounded like hers was taking a different direction than what the OP signed on for. She probably fell into the fantasy of being the "professional woman" with a Range Rover, who goes to exciting work functions, and whose kids are raised by the nanny. It seemed like she was less interested in family life than the OP, which was a bad sign. If I had to guess, I think the marriage would have lasted 5-10 years before she wanted a divorce (with influence from outside forces).
09-03-2019 04:39 PM
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RE: Called Off My Wedding
Your animal instincts are unlikely to be wrong, so I commend you. However....

1. A dispute about the total number of kids when you don't have any kids is stupid. Have a kid, keep her attraction high, she'll want more
2. Planning Weddings is for brides. Unless you are paying, let her do what she wants. Stick to a few points (a church could be one for you), but staying away is the best generally
3. Bad Friends is a big problem, triply so because of her young age. But, if her attraction to you was high, she wouldn't feel the need to see them, and would herself fight against the things that concern you
4. Nobody really wants to work, and lots of wives find dumb excuses to cease working once married (or they look at the price of daycare and have a good reason not to work). You shouldn't have worried too much about this. Your story reads like you failed a shit test regarding her work/career.

Did you try Dread game? If she had to decide for herself whether she wanted you or the above bullshit, and the above stuff is bullshit, you would probably have the girl you loved back (or you would have an answer which is also a win).
09-03-2019 04:45 PM
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Brodiaga Offline
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RE: Called Off My Wedding
OP, do you make enough money to support 4-6 kids? Most men don't, nothing to be ashamed of. I don't, for example. By supporting, I mean buying a big house in a nice neighborhood with good schools, money for good and healthy food, clothes, toys, travel, extracurricular activities. A stable job with a good health insurance because kids will 100% need it. Money for deductibles and co-pays with that insurance. Money for dentists and orthodontists. Ideally, money to pay for a good college for each of them as well. For a few kids, all these expenses can easily add up to a number with two commas in it. Perhaps your fiance wasn't sure you could provide all that which is why she wanted to work as well?
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2019 05:02 PM by Brodiaga.)
09-03-2019 04:59 PM
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wwtl Offline
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RE: Called Off My Wedding
(09-03-2019 12:00 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  I got engaged back in November and just called off the wedding set two weeks from now. We had been together just shy of 5 years. She came from a conservative background, parents stayed together, and also put her through private catholic school.

I think eventually the influence of work and friends overtook the baby fever. The good influence of my friend's wife was on the other side of the country. Things came to a head. She said she only wanted one or two kids but would compromise on 3, and wouldn't stay home with them beyond the 8 weeks of maternity leave the company gives. This was a big step back from the conversations we had before that of having 4-6 kids.

There is a hard deadline of three years until pregnancy. You missed that by two years. That's the red pill about long-term relationships that last: the biological imperative. All the logistics including the wedding need to happen beforehand. You lived the non-traditional "dating" relationship and it fell apart like it.

The career BS usually goes out the window when the first child is born and your wife suddenly starts enjoying the housewife role. But you waited too long.

Also there is no need to negotiate a number beforehand. Once the second or third child is born, females become addicted to new babies and the sky is the limit (actually your bankroll). From the fourth child it's like collecting notches for them.

tl;dr: If you want a large family get going ASAP and make sure to keep your wife pregnant the whole time. Career corruption primarily works on girls, who are on the pill and not busy with breeding.
09-03-2019 04:59 PM
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RE: Called Off My Wedding
I am surrounded by those types of career women daily - no one man can protect a good woman from the toxicity of modern culture in a 8-10 hour work day everyday.

Just keep pushing forward. Some women are waking up from the lie and you can find them, but in these difficult evil times I find trying to build a closer relationship with God (in some type of way) is most important.

It seems like everyone can turn their back on Good Men right now, but God won't.
09-03-2019 05:07 PM
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General Mayhem Offline
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RE: Called Off My Wedding
(09-03-2019 03:12 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  Op, you made a ballsy move. I don't know if it was the right move but you had to make one either way once you opened the can of worms. Staying silent would have just kept running things downhill. You have also captured the pain of modern marriage and women. Women think its a partnership of equals, but its not. One leads and one follows, if the follower won't submit, then there are problems. A modern woman has a very hard time understanding that it is still an honor to be Mike Pence when Donald Trump is president or that Melania has it good being the first lady. No, instead they think a marriage should be two presidents.

If you are not yet married, and this discussion is brutal, sure you can just leave, but if you are married then you have to have the entire fight, over multiple battles. You can't just Vietnam it and pull out when everyone gets tired.

Either way, you made a move, which I can respect.

Captain GH and Dr. Howard are adding an important element to the discussion and I want to respond to that to fill in more of the picture.

I can't jump right to saying that this was 100% the right move. I probably won't know for a while. There's a voice in my head telling me this could be a mistake and maybe I could win the war if I kept at it.

But, at the same time I've been working on this relationship for almost 5 years. I agree that you have to train a mold a modern woman through trials and hard work because I did it to some extent. There were plenty of times I wanted to walk out but didn't. One of the things I valued most about the relationship is that we both seemed so intent on making it work.

We did get in several fights about her friends and she couldn't see why I didn't like them or thought they were bad influences. She used to come home from work in tears and bitch about how awful they were to work with constantly. No matter how I broke it down she insisted they were her friends.

Like Dr. Howard pointed out, if the follower won't submit, there are problems. In a lot of aspects my girl did submit, but obviously not entirely. She was happy to submit to things especially if she could see the benefits. I got her into intermittent fasting and she got skinnier, she got off birth control and her energy and mood improved, etc.

But, at a certain point the woman has to give up her ego-pleasing dreams to focus on kids, even if you are only having a few of them. I don't think only having 3 kids would have broke my heart. I never even said she could never work again, just tone it back while the kids are young. But, my girl wasn't ready to give up the satisfaction she got from work for anything. Neither could she see how she could gain that satisfaction through other means. Maybe I could have gotten her to see that but waiting to see if having a kid would change that is a huge gamble.

I think she understood that men and women aren't equal in a physical and emotional sense. At the same time she was unwilling to give up the part of her ego that was satisfied by work. Her ego in general got to be a problem. That's why she would say things like how she didn't need religion to tell her how to live her life, or that she hated the priest who was going to marry us and thought that discussions with him, or spiritual life in general were wastes of time. I know she tried to get with the program but in a way I think that broke her.

I talked to one of my close friends who got married by the same priest and he told me about a time his wife wanted to talk some issues out with him after their first child was born. That story just made me think about how it was the wife's openness to listen to something bigger than herself was what made that work.

At one point during these last few discussions with my girl I asked if she believed in anything bigger than herself and she told me she didn't. It's not that she doesn't believe in god but that she didn't care to consider it. That was pretty telling for me.

That's part of the issue with modernism in general. Nobody wants to stop and consider anything bigger than themselves because life is good. The paychecks come in, you can buy the toys you want, and have kids and a healthy family without ever considering the bigger picture. Another thing I hate is that even if the woman wants to try stepping away from work the corporate machine is setup to make them believe that if they take a break for a while to raise kids no one will ever hire them again.
09-03-2019 05:10 PM
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RE: Called Off My Wedding
From what you've written I can't support this post. I'm sure there's more to the story and all that.

I feel like both of you are guilty of a little too much stubbornness in regards to your futures. The problem with being too conservative is looking too far into the future and not appreciating the present, or even the near future. It's like those kids who sacrifice risks and opportunities because they're already planning their retirement in their mid 20s. Maybe you set out and achieve what you'd always planned... Then what.. is that what is going to make you happy?

You say you want to have 6 children but could compromise on 3... You don't even have 1 child yet.. Maybe get that hurdle out the way first and see how you deal with all the pressures that come with it. Same goes for your wife, she enjoys her career now and good for her; but the influence of carrying a child for 9 months, birthing it and raising it is obviously going to completely alter her views.

Quote:That was true. I don't give a shit about her career. I get that she doesn't feel like she can't come home and talk about some great thing she did at work but I just don't give a fuck. I like that she makes money but beyond that it means nothing. She always hated the women's empowerment bullshit at work and wasn't that type. She just really derived a lot of satisfaction from working. She doesn't appreciate the side of me that is long-winded and philosophical. I made peace with that a long time ago. We all know women aren't the best outlet for that type of discussion.

Honestly mate, you sound like a bit of a deluded arsehole.
09-03-2019 05:17 PM
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RE: Called Off My Wedding
(09-03-2019 04:45 PM)Rotten Wrote:  Your animal instincts are unlikely to be wrong, so I commend you. However....

1. A dispute about the total number of kids when you don't have any kids is stupid. Have a kid, keep her attraction high, she'll want more
2. Planning Weddings is for brides. Unless you are paying, let her do what she wants. Stick to a few points (a church could be one for you), but staying away is the best generally
3. Bad Friends is a big problem, triply so because of her young age. But, if her attraction to you was high, she wouldn't feel the need to see them, and would herself fight against the things that concern you
4. Nobody really wants to work, and lots of wives find dumb excuses to cease working once married (or they look at the price of daycare and have a good reason not to work). You shouldn't have worried too much about this. Your story reads like you failed a shit test regarding her work/career.

Did you try Dread game? If she had to decide for herself whether she wanted you or the above bullshit, and the above stuff is bullshit, you would probably have the girl you loved back (or you would have an answer which is also a win).

The bolded above are excellent points. I don't disagree at all. Part of me feels like this whole thing would have gone differently if I took a smarter approach.

(09-03-2019 04:59 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  OP, do you make enough money to support 4-6 kids? Most men don't, nothing to be ashamed of. I don't, for example. By supporting, I mean buying a big house in a nice neighborhood with good schools, money for good and healthy food, clothes, toys, travel, extracurricular activities. A stable job with a good health insurance because kids will 100% need it. Money for deductibles and co-pays with that insurance. Money for dentists and orthodontists. Ideally, money to pay for a good college for each of them as well. For a few kids, all these expenses can easily add up to a number with two commas in it. Perhaps your fiance wasn't sure you could provide all that which is why she wanted to work as well?

I have no doubt this was a contributing factor. If I making a huge chunk of money I doubt I would have had all these problems. No way I make enough to support all those kids on my own right now. We would have been rolling in cash right out the gate combined. No reason she couldn't have stepped back at a certain point. At what point is enough, enough though?

(09-03-2019 04:59 PM)wwtl Wrote:  
(09-03-2019 12:00 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  I got engaged back in November and just called off the wedding set two weeks from now. We had been together just shy of 5 years. She came from a conservative background, parents stayed together, and also put her through private catholic school.

I think eventually the influence of work and friends overtook the baby fever. The good influence of my friend's wife was on the other side of the country. Things came to a head. She said she only wanted one or two kids but would compromise on 3, and wouldn't stay home with them beyond the 8 weeks of maternity leave the company gives. This was a big step back from the conversations we had before that of having 4-6 kids.

There is a hard deadline of [b]three years until pregnancy. You missed that by two years. That's the red pill about long-term relationships that last: the biological imperative. All the logistics including the wedding need to happen beforehand. You lived the non-traditional "dating" relationship and it fell apart like it.[/b]

The career BS usually goes out the window when the first child is born and your wife suddenly starts enjoying the housewife role. But you waited too long.

Also there is no need to negotiate a number beforehand. Once the second or third child is born, females become addicted to new babies and the sky is the limit (actually your bankroll). From the fourth child it's like collecting notches for them.

tl;dr: If you want a large family get going ASAP and make sure to keep your wife pregnant the whole time. Career corruption primarily works on girls, who are on the pill and not busy with breeding.

This was a huge takeaway for me after we were engaged for about a month. I waited way to fucking long. There was a golden window and I missed it for no good reason other than my own immaturity.
09-03-2019 05:29 PM
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Alpone Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Called Off My Wedding
This is a tough situation, OP, and thanks for sharing it. I'm sure it wasn't easy to make this decision.

The first time I read your post I was 100% supportive. I read it again and something changed.

Women are herd creatures and take the path of least resistance. She had a child-free life with little responsibility and nothing holding her back from hanging with cubicle harpies. They were convenient. They were fun. And she had free time because she didn't have kids. She went with the herd and took the path of least resistance. Exactly what a normal woman usually does given these circumstances.

It's up to the man to guide the woman either through firm boundary setting or giving her babies so that her time is so occupied with good things that there's no time left for hanging out with harpies, social media or any of that jazz.

I don't know the details of your relationship, but if you reframe the relationship where you're the boss and she's the subordinate employee, did you do everything possible to guide her towards a better outcome?

Yes, there's only so much a man can do if a woman is going to turn into a degenerate thot, but it seems like she wasn't that far gone, and it seems like you still had a few cards left to play.
09-03-2019 06:07 PM
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Laner Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Called Off My Wedding
Without her knowing, her body already sees you as a non viable partner. Not a big deal, it changes fast when you start dumping heavy daily loads in her. Still a factor in why she is so subservient to a corporation and female hierarchy. Her body is telling her mind to get ready for spinsterhood.

You also gotta walk before you run. 6 kids seems like a good goal, but between 1 and 6 is a massive amount of potential problems. One of my good friends wanted 4 kids as she was an only child. The first one almost killed her, the second one the doctor wanted to abort for her safety. She pushed through and she almost died twice during the birth, along with her daughter. Absolutely no more kids for her. My sister was also told no more kids after her second, but she had a third no problem and then a fourth, and she was pretty adamant she only wanted two but is super happy with four and may go for five. Its all so unknown.

I agree that having a wedding in a church with your priest is a good place to stand your ground. I don't really trust women who want a massive, over the top, instagram wedding. But I also don't trust women who want to keep it super small and secret. A wedding, among good people, is just a way to keep the community on your side and to help and support you should difficult times occur. And they will. I think of how much my family has done for young married couples over the years and understand now the reasoning.
09-03-2019 06:15 PM
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No More Mr. Soy Boy Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Called Off My Wedding
One of the best posts I've read on here. I can relate to a lot in there since I felt I've lost the same battle to a couple of previous girls of mine too. It's hard when you've built up a bond with that woman but in the end, and deep down, you know it is the right decision to move on.

So very brave of you to not settle for less than what you're worth and move on. Very few would do this and rather spend their entire life with someone even though they know they're probably much more compatible with someone else. You lost the battle, but you'll win the war.
09-03-2019 06:59 PM
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Post: #20
RE: Called Off My Wedding
(09-03-2019 06:07 PM)Alpone Wrote:  This is a tough situation, OP, and thanks for sharing it. I'm sure it wasn't easy to make this decision.

The first time I read your post I was 100% supportive. I read it again and something changed.

Women are herd creatures and take the path of least resistance. She had a child-free life with little responsibility and nothing holding her back from hanging with cubicle harpies. They were convenient. They were fun. And she had free time because she didn't have kids. She went with the herd and took the path of least resistance. Exactly what a normal woman usually does given these circumstances.

It's up to the man to guide the woman either through firm boundary setting or giving her babies so that her time is so occupied with good things that there's no time left for hanging out with harpies, social media or any of that jazz.

I don't know the details of your relationship, but if you reframe the relationship where you're the boss and she's the subordinate employee, did you do everything possible to guide her towards a better outcome?

Yes, there's only so much a man can do if a woman is going to turn into a degenerate thot, but it seems like she wasn't that far gone, and it seems like you still had a few cards left to play.

The big move was when I convinced her to get a different job to get her away from a situation I was toxic. But even after that at a certain point the discussion was just her saying over and over that she wants her friends and her job.

I tried over the years to get her to cultivate other interests outside of work so that she would have another outlet. She just never really took to it or wanted to put effort into any pursuits besides work. I'm talking zero other interests here.

(09-03-2019 06:15 PM)Laner Wrote:  Without her knowing, her body already sees you as a non viable partner. Not a big deal, it changes fast when you start dumping heavy daily loads in her. Still a factor in why she is so subservient to a corporation and female hierarchy. Her body is telling her mind to get ready for spinsterhood.

You also gotta walk before you run. 6 kids seems like a good goal, but between 1 and 6 is a massive amount of potential problems. One of my good friends wanted 4 kids as she was an only child. The first one almost killed her, the second one the doctor wanted to abort for her safety. She pushed through and she almost died twice during the birth, along with her daughter. Absolutely no more kids for her. My sister was also told no more kids after her second, but she had a third no problem and then a fourth, and she was pretty adamant she only wanted two but is super happy with four and may go for five. Its all so unknown.

I agree that having a wedding in a church with your priest is a good place to stand your ground. I don't really trust women who want a massive, over the top, instagram wedding. But I also don't trust women who want to keep it super small and secret. A wedding, among good people, is just a way to keep the community on your side and to help and support you should difficult times occur. And they will. I think of how much my family has done for young married couples over the years and understand now the reasoning.

Something in her body was definitely changing. I was raw dogging her a week ago without birth control and I felt like she was trying resist me pulling out. We were fucking multiple times a day. Shit changed quick.

She actually did want a small secretive wedding. We actually fought pretty hard on what was important. I have a huge family and it was legitimately important to me to have them there.

On the other hand, she has a tumultuous relationship with her family. One estranged sister she won't communicate with and another sister that she doesn't like but tolerates somewhat. No brothers and a father that was wore out after dealing with 4 females for all those years. He was a good guy but sort of subscribed to the happy wife happy life model. Her extended family is a total mess and she was hoping none of them showed up.

She was always stressed out by my family in a way and I think that is because hers was so fucked up and she never took the time to process the relationship she had with her sister.
09-03-2019 07:11 PM
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No More Mr. Soy Boy Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Called Off My Wedding
(09-03-2019 12:00 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  She wasn't big into social media. No slutty instagram photos. No beta orbiters feeding her likes. I knew she wasn't totally free from the influence of modern culture but I thought I got her far enough away and that was good enough.

Are you sure she wasn't big into social media because she didn't see the point? Or maybe because she just didn't have the confidence?

I used to think there were girls who genuinly didn't care about the social media crap and status but I'm not convinced anymore. I think if these girls felt they were hot enough, could take photos from different trips and had the confidence to upload a lot of half-nude junk, most of them would probably do it.

So it's more a question of them not feeling hot enough compared to other women on Instagram than them actually being conservative and having a dislike for social media. But obviously, as a man, you want to believe that you've found this special girl who doesn't care at all about validation and attention from other men.
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2019 07:35 PM by No More Mr. Soy Boy.)
09-03-2019 07:34 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Called Off My Wedding
(09-03-2019 07:34 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  
(09-03-2019 12:00 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  She wasn't big into social media. No slutty instagram photos. No beta orbiters feeding her likes. I knew she wasn't totally free from the influence of modern culture but I thought I got her far enough away and that was good enough.

Are you sure she wasn't big into social media because she didn't see the point? Or maybe because she just didn't have the confidence?

I used to think there were girls who genuinly didn't care about the social media crap and status but I'm not convinced anymore. I think if these girls felt they were hot enough, could take photos from different trips and had the confidence to upload a lot of half-nude junk, most of them would probably do it.

So it's more a question of them not feeling hot enough compared to other women on Instagram than them actually being conservative and having a dislike for social media. But obviously, as a man, you want to believe that you've found this special girl who doesn't care at all about validation and attention from other men.

That's an interesting question in general, whether confidence correlates to half nude pics on instagram.

As far back as I have ever seen pictures of her she never posted anything like that. Most of her instagram has been pictures of me or us since we have been together. She has always dressed very modestly even the night I met her. She never really even liked wearing makeup minus a little eye makeup and I enjoyed that about her.

She has always slut shamed other girls pretty hard. That could be partially due to not feeling as hot as other girls. She sent me nudes and would walk around naked all the time. In the beginning she was the type who didn't like having sex with the light on until I brought her around to it.
09-03-2019 08:03 PM
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Captain Gh Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Called Off My Wedding
(09-03-2019 05:10 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  
(09-03-2019 03:12 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  Op, you made a ballsy move. I don't know if it was the right move but you had to make one either way once you opened the can of worms. Staying silent would have just kept running things downhill. You have also captured the pain of modern marriage and women. Women think its a partnership of equals, but its not. One leads and one follows, if the follower won't submit, then there are problems. A modern woman has a very hard time understanding that it is still an honor to be Mike Pence when Donald Trump is president or that Melania has it good being the first lady. No, instead they think a marriage should be two presidents.

If you are not yet married, and this discussion is brutal, sure you can just leave, but if you are married then you have to have the entire fight, over multiple battles. You can't just Vietnam it and pull out when everyone gets tired.

Either way, you made a move, which I can respect.

Captain GH and Dr. Howard are adding an important element to the discussion and I want to respond to that to fill in more of the picture.

I can't jump right to saying that this was 100% the right move. I probably won't know for a while. There's a voice in my head telling me this could be a mistake and maybe I could win the war if I kept at it.

But, at the same time I've been working on this relationship for almost 5 years. I agree that you have to train a mold a modern woman through trials and hard work because I did it to some extent. There were plenty of times I wanted to walk out but didn't. One of the things I valued most about the relationship is that we both seemed so intent on making it work.

We did get in several fights about her friends and she couldn't see why I didn't like them or thought they were bad influences. She used to come home from work in tears and bitch about how awful they were to work with constantly. No matter how I broke it down she insisted they were her friends.

Like Dr. Howard pointed out, if the follower won't submit, there are problems. In a lot of aspects my girl did submit, but obviously not entirely. She was happy to submit to things especially if she could see the benefits. I got her into intermittent fasting and she got skinnier, she got off birth control and her energy and mood improved, etc.

But, at a certain point the woman has to give up her ego-pleasing dreams to focus on kids, even if you are only having a few of them. I don't think only having 3 kids would have broke my heart. I never even said she could never work again, just tone it back while the kids are young. But, my girl wasn't ready to give up the satisfaction she got from work for anything. Neither could she see how she could gain that satisfaction through other means. Maybe I could have gotten her to see that but waiting to see if having a kid would change that is a huge gamble.

I think she understood that men and women aren't equal in a physical and emotional sense. At the same time she was unwilling to give up the part of her ego that was satisfied by work. Her ego in general got to be a problem. That's why she would say things like how she didn't need religion to tell her how to live her life, or that she hated the priest who was going to marry us and thought that discussions with him, or spiritual life in general were wastes of time. I know she tried to get with the program but in a way I think that broke her.

I talked to one of my close friends who got married by the same priest and he told me about a time his wife wanted to talk some issues out with him after their first child was born. That story just made me think about how it was the wife's openness to listen to something bigger than herself was what made that work.

At one point during these last few discussions with my girl I asked if she believed in anything bigger than herself and she told me she didn't. It's not that she doesn't believe in god but that she didn't care to consider it. That was pretty telling for me.

That's part of the issue with modernism in general. Nobody wants to stop and consider anything bigger than themselves because life is good. The paychecks come in, you can buy the toys you want, and have kids and a healthy family without ever considering the bigger picture. Another thing I hate is that even if the woman wants to try stepping away from work the corporate machine is setup to make them believe that if they take a break for a while to raise kids no one will ever hire them again.


From reading this... rest assured you made the right decision my man! You didn't bail at first sight... and actually had conversation with her... which didn't pan out the way you wanted... so then you called it off! 100% right call in my book
09-03-2019 08:59 PM
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Post: #24
RE: Called Off My Wedding
I just got a call from my friend. Apparently his wife reached out to my ex to say she was there for her if she wanted to talk and they had a long conversation.

My friend told me his wife came back into the house in tears and said my ex was a bitch. He said he didn't get all the details of the conversation except that they talked about some of the compromises and his wife said that she wasn't going to change. She also told the wife that the only people who come to religion are crack heads, which is a pretty sad thing to say to someone who made you the godmother to one of her children. These two girls used to be thick as thieves.
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2019 09:20 PM by General Mayhem.)
09-03-2019 09:19 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Called Off My Wedding
You did the right thing, OP. Only marry a woman who wants to stay home with the kids.

Feminism in ten words: "Stop objectifying women! Can't you see I've hit the wall?" -Leonard D Neubache
09-03-2019 10:51 PM
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