I'm Touring The United States! Starting in June, I'm conducting private events in 23 American cities. Click here for full details.

Post Reply 
Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
Author Message
Tail Gunner Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,705
Joined: Jan 2012
Reputation: 47
Post: #151
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
(10-04-2019 08:13 AM)bucky Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 11:55 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 09:52 PM)bucky Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 10:05 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 06:40 AM)bucky Wrote:  That's the trick, isn't it? 401k money can disappear like Soviet rubles, gold can be stolen by marauding biker gangs in a Mad Max like hellscape, and so on. Rust doth corrupt and thieves break through and steal, as the Bible says.

What is with the victim mentality? You can store gold in a world-class vault in a country where crime is almost irrelevant (Switzerland, Singapore, etc.). You can hedge your stock portfolio. Gold is a form of insurance, so is hedging. Research the original purpose of hedge funds. You can now hedge for yourself.

Or how about diversification? Even without hedging, in 2008 when the stock market tanked 60%, a 60/40 bond/stock portfolio decreased only 24%. You still took a hit, but it was not a huge life-changing hit. Act like the herd, get slaughtered like the herd. Much of this conversation come down to: "Don't be stupid."

I don't think of being in touch with reality as having a victim mentality, but YMMV and you probably haven't seen nearly as many Soviet-era bank books as I have. Sure, do your best to save and invest wisely, but money and all material things are transient and can be lost in spite of the best plans.

You completely missed my point. You are not in touch with reality because you suffer from a victim mentality (or an ostrich mentality), despite the fact that there are literally hundreds of simple low-cost steps that you can take to protect yourself. I have already named some of them, including simple headging strategies or diversification.

Soviet-era bank books? My grandparents fled from their homeland when the Soviet tanks rolled in. My family lived through that horror -- and I learned from it. "Money and all material things are transient and can be lost in spite of the best plans?" Really? In spite of the best plans? Although I am not wealthy, I have investments on three continents (and plan on having one on a fourth). I have a second citizenship, I have several foreign residencies, and I just created an offshore business. I do not whine about what might happen. Instead, I make cost-effective plans (as insurance) for the widest possible array of contingencies.

If you read history, the Nazis did not really want to kill the Jews. At least not in the beginning. This is documented in journals. The Nazis made life miserable for the Jews, hoping that they would leave Germany. Millions did. Millions of others did not. The Jews were killed only because, after war broke out and international propriety became irrelevant, the Nazis had free reign to do what they wished. The Jews who were murdered did not believe the warnings of their national leaders, failed to make arrangements to leave while they could, or failed to diversify their assets overseas and valued their material possessions over their lives. You ignore the warnings of people with political power at your own risk.

When Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren talk about a wealth tax, targeting "the wealthy," gun confiscation, and spending tens of trillions of dollars, I believe them. If they get the opportunity (i.e., full control of Congress and the White House), I believe that they will do exactly as they say. I will be ready. Will you?

I don't know. I hope so. I don't think of awareness of the uncertain nature of the future as "whining" or a "victim mentality." Maybe you put your confidence entirely in yourself rather than God as I do, I don't know. For example, I accept the losing all or most of my material wealth as a something that could happen and although I'd prefer to avoid that, if it were to happen I'd try to see it as God's plan for me.

Regardless, in a way I envy your confidence that you've got it all figured out and know exactly what's coming. You remind me a bit of Vox Day with his guarantees that Donald Trump would win in 2016, the Republicans would hold on the House in 2018, and that the US government will collapse in the 2030s. Who knows, maybe you do actually know what's coming, and even if you don't, it must be reassuring to believe that for now.

Again, you completely missed my point. You stated: "Regardless, in a way I envy your confidence that you've got it all figured out and know exactly what's coming." I never made such a claim. Some future results are quite obvious; most are not. The fact is that you can, and should, make low-cost plans as insurance against a wide variety of possible negative future events. As I said in my prior post:

Quote:I do not whine about what might happen. Instead, I make cost-effective plans (as insurance) for the widest possible array of contingencies.


(10-04-2019 08:13 AM)bucky Wrote:  Maybe you put your confidence entirely in yourself rather than God as I do, I don't know. For example, I accept the losing all or most of my material wealth as a something that could happen and although I'd prefer to avoid that, if it were to happen I'd try to see it as God's plan for me.

It sounds as if you never picked up a Bible. When God issued his warning to Noah, did Noah sit around waiting for God to save him and his family -- or did he spend decades of his life building an ark? God gave us free will, not a free ride. Our choices impact our lives on a daily basis. Perhaps this exchange with me is God's way of warning you to take action. You ignore those warnings at your own peril.
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2019 10:25 AM by Tail Gunner.)
10-04-2019 10:24 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
bucky Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 519
Joined: Nov 2015
Reputation: 3
Post: #152
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
(10-04-2019 10:24 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:13 AM)bucky Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 11:55 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 09:52 PM)bucky Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 10:05 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  What is with the victim mentality? You can store gold in a world-class vault in a country where crime is almost irrelevant (Switzerland, Singapore, etc.). You can hedge your stock portfolio. Gold is a form of insurance, so is hedging. Research the original purpose of hedge funds. You can now hedge for yourself.

Or how about diversification? Even without hedging, in 2008 when the stock market tanked 60%, a 60/40 bond/stock portfolio decreased only 24%. You still took a hit, but it was not a huge life-changing hit. Act like the herd, get slaughtered like the herd. Much of this conversation come down to: "Don't be stupid."

I don't think of being in touch with reality as having a victim mentality, but YMMV and you probably haven't seen nearly as many Soviet-era bank books as I have. Sure, do your best to save and invest wisely, but money and all material things are transient and can be lost in spite of the best plans.

You completely missed my point. You are not in touch with reality because you suffer from a victim mentality (or an ostrich mentality), despite the fact that there are literally hundreds of simple low-cost steps that you can take to protect yourself. I have already named some of them, including simple headging strategies or diversification.

Soviet-era bank books? My grandparents fled from their homeland when the Soviet tanks rolled in. My family lived through that horror -- and I learned from it. "Money and all material things are transient and can be lost in spite of the best plans?" Really? In spite of the best plans? Although I am not wealthy, I have investments on three continents (and plan on having one on a fourth). I have a second citizenship, I have several foreign residencies, and I just created an offshore business. I do not whine about what might happen. Instead, I make cost-effective plans (as insurance) for the widest possible array of contingencies.

If you read history, the Nazis did not really want to kill the Jews. At least not in the beginning. This is documented in journals. The Nazis made life miserable for the Jews, hoping that they would leave Germany. Millions did. Millions of others did not. The Jews were killed only because, after war broke out and international propriety became irrelevant, the Nazis had free reign to do what they wished. The Jews who were murdered did not believe the warnings of their national leaders, failed to make arrangements to leave while they could, or failed to diversify their assets overseas and valued their material possessions over their lives. You ignore the warnings of people with political power at your own risk.

When Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren talk about a wealth tax, targeting "the wealthy," gun confiscation, and spending tens of trillions of dollars, I believe them. If they get the opportunity (i.e., full control of Congress and the White House), I believe that they will do exactly as they say. I will be ready. Will you?

I don't know. I hope so. I don't think of awareness of the uncertain nature of the future as "whining" or a "victim mentality." Maybe you put your confidence entirely in yourself rather than God as I do, I don't know. For example, I accept the losing all or most of my material wealth as a something that could happen and although I'd prefer to avoid that, if it were to happen I'd try to see it as God's plan for me.

Regardless, in a way I envy your confidence that you've got it all figured out and know exactly what's coming. You remind me a bit of Vox Day with his guarantees that Donald Trump would win in 2016, the Republicans would hold on the House in 2018, and that the US government will collapse in the 2030s. Who knows, maybe you do actually know what's coming, and even if you don't, it must be reassuring to believe that for now.

Again, you completely missed my point. You stated: "Regardless, in a way I envy your confidence that you've got it all figured out and know exactly what's coming." I never made such a claim. Some future results are quite obvious; most are not. The fact is that you can, and should, make low-cost plans as insurance against a wide variety of possible negative future events. As I said in my prior post:

Quote:I do not whine about what might happen. Instead, I make cost-effective plans (as insurance) for the widest possible array of contingencies.


(10-04-2019 08:13 AM)bucky Wrote:  Maybe you put your confidence entirely in yourself rather than God as I do, I don't know. For example, I accept the losing all or most of my material wealth as a something that could happen and although I'd prefer to avoid that, if it were to happen I'd try to see it as God's plan for me.

It sounds as if you never picked up a Bible. When God issued his warning to Noah, did Noah sit around waiting for God to save him and his family -- or did he spend decades of his life building an ark? God gave us free will, not a free ride. Our choices impact our lives on a daily basis. Perhaps this exchange with me is God's way of warning you to take action. You ignore those warnings at your own peril.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea I've made no plans, but I get that you're sensitive and emotional (e.g. the thing about my never having picked up a Bible after I directly quoted it a few posts ago) about the plans you've made and my questioning your confidence. I think we're just talking past each other at this point, so it's probably best to drop it. Good luck.

Feminism in ten words: "Stop objectifying women! Can't you see I've hit the wall?" -Leonard D Neubache
10-04-2019 01:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Tail Gunner Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,705
Joined: Jan 2012
Reputation: 47
Post: #153
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
(10-04-2019 01:10 PM)bucky Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 10:24 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:13 AM)bucky Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 11:55 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 09:52 PM)bucky Wrote:  I don't think of being in touch with reality as having a victim mentality, but YMMV and you probably haven't seen nearly as many Soviet-era bank books as I have. Sure, do your best to save and invest wisely, but money and all material things are transient and can be lost in spite of the best plans.

You completely missed my point. You are not in touch with reality because you suffer from a victim mentality (or an ostrich mentality), despite the fact that there are literally hundreds of simple low-cost steps that you can take to protect yourself. I have already named some of them, including simple headging strategies or diversification.

Soviet-era bank books? My grandparents fled from their homeland when the Soviet tanks rolled in. My family lived through that horror -- and I learned from it. "Money and all material things are transient and can be lost in spite of the best plans?" Really? In spite of the best plans? Although I am not wealthy, I have investments on three continents (and plan on having one on a fourth). I have a second citizenship, I have several foreign residencies, and I just created an offshore business. I do not whine about what might happen. Instead, I make cost-effective plans (as insurance) for the widest possible array of contingencies.

If you read history, the Nazis did not really want to kill the Jews. At least not in the beginning. This is documented in journals. The Nazis made life miserable for the Jews, hoping that they would leave Germany. Millions did. Millions of others did not. The Jews were killed only because, after war broke out and international propriety became irrelevant, the Nazis had free reign to do what they wished. The Jews who were murdered did not believe the warnings of their national leaders, failed to make arrangements to leave while they could, or failed to diversify their assets overseas and valued their material possessions over their lives. You ignore the warnings of people with political power at your own risk.

When Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren talk about a wealth tax, targeting "the wealthy," gun confiscation, and spending tens of trillions of dollars, I believe them. If they get the opportunity (i.e., full control of Congress and the White House), I believe that they will do exactly as they say. I will be ready. Will you?

I don't know. I hope so. I don't think of awareness of the uncertain nature of the future as "whining" or a "victim mentality." Maybe you put your confidence entirely in yourself rather than God as I do, I don't know. For example, I accept the losing all or most of my material wealth as a something that could happen and although I'd prefer to avoid that, if it were to happen I'd try to see it as God's plan for me.

Regardless, in a way I envy your confidence that you've got it all figured out and know exactly what's coming. You remind me a bit of Vox Day with his guarantees that Donald Trump would win in 2016, the Republicans would hold on the House in 2018, and that the US government will collapse in the 2030s. Who knows, maybe you do actually know what's coming, and even if you don't, it must be reassuring to believe that for now.

Again, you completely missed my point. You stated: "Regardless, in a way I envy your confidence that you've got it all figured out and know exactly what's coming." I never made such a claim. Some future results are quite obvious; most are not. The fact is that you can, and should, make low-cost plans as insurance against a wide variety of possible negative future events. As I said in my prior post:

Quote:I do not whine about what might happen. Instead, I make cost-effective plans (as insurance) for the widest possible array of contingencies.


(10-04-2019 08:13 AM)bucky Wrote:  Maybe you put your confidence entirely in yourself rather than God as I do, I don't know. For example, I accept the losing all or most of my material wealth as a something that could happen and although I'd prefer to avoid that, if it were to happen I'd try to see it as God's plan for me.

It sounds as if you never picked up a Bible. When God issued his warning to Noah, did Noah sit around waiting for God to save him and his family -- or did he spend decades of his life building an ark? God gave us free will, not a free ride. Our choices impact our lives on a daily basis. Perhaps this exchange with me is God's way of warning you to take action. You ignore those warnings at your own peril.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea I've made no plans, but I get that you're sensitive and emotional (e.g. the thing about my never having picked up a Bible after I directly quoted it a few posts ago) about the plans you've made and my questioning your confidence. I think we're just talking past each other at this point, so it's probably best to drop it. Good luck.

No problem. Honestly, I was just trying to help you out by having you think through things.

Haha. I doubt that anyone who knows me would think of me as "sensitive and emotional." More like a mischievous Mr. Spock.
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2019 01:47 PM by Tail Gunner.)
10-04-2019 01:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Tail Gunner's post:
bucky
kamoz Offline
Woodpecker
**
Gold Member

Posts: 367
Joined: Nov 2015
Reputation: 7
Post: #154
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
Tail Gunner, can you link us to thread(s) or data sheet(s) that explains any one or all of the following:

How to make investments on three continents (and plan on having one on a fourth).

How to obtain a second citizenship,

How to obtain several foreign residencies,

How to created an offshore business.
10-05-2019 01:29 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes kamoz's post:
bucky
Polniy_Sostav Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 697
Joined: Apr 2017
Reputation: 6
Post: #155
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
(09-11-2019 10:32 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:  
(09-11-2019 06:07 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  
(09-08-2019 01:27 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:  
(09-08-2019 12:31 PM)JiggyLordJr Wrote:  Keep the gold, stop 401k payments.

With Social Security drying up (if it's not already a desert), who knows where they'll be taking from to keep the gravy train running.

The great thing about gold is it can only be taken out of your cold, dead hands.

Bitcoin is 100000x harder to seize than gold. FDR made holding gold illegal in the past, no reason to think it won't happen again.

Can you please explain in simple words how bitcoin is harder to seize than gold ? ( I don't have any knowledge of bitcoin aka the scam of the 21st century )

Lol

I am still waiting for the answer
10-05-2019 06:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Leonard D Neubache Offline
Owl
******
Gold Member

Posts: 11,678
Joined: Mar 2016
Reputation: 209
Post: #156
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
Government: Based on transaction records, we have reason to believe you are in possession of gold.
Gold Holder: Lol. I don't know what you're talking about.
Government: Lol. You can spend some time in jail until you remember.

Government: Based on transaction records, we have reason to believe you are in possession of bitcoin.
Bitcoin Holder: Lol. I don't know what you're talking about.
Government: Lol. You can spend some time in jail until you remember.

Key difference. Gold can be acquired while leaving no digital trail so you can avoid that knock on the door in the first place.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2019 08:20 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
10-05-2019 08:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Leonard D Neubache's post:
bucky, Tail Gunner
bucky Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 519
Joined: Nov 2015
Reputation: 3
Post: #157
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
(10-05-2019 08:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Government: Based on transaction records, we have reason to believe you are in possession of gold.
Gold Holder: Lol. I don't know what you're talking about.
Government: Lol. You can spend some time in jail until you remember.

Government: Based on transaction records, we have reason to believe you are in possession of bitcoin.
Bitcoin Holder: Lol. I don't know what you're talking about.
Government: Lol. You can spend some time in jail until you remember.

Key difference. Gold can be acquired while leaving no digital trail so you can avoid that knock on the door in the first place.

Regardless, I can see either scenario you describe happening IRL. This is why I was skeptical of Tailgunner's advice to just make low-risk investments. Almost all Americans gave up their gold when Roosevelt banned it in 1933. The risk-to-benefit just didn't make holding on to it feasible.

Feminism in ten words: "Stop objectifying women! Can't you see I've hit the wall?" -Leonard D Neubache
10-05-2019 08:35 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
scorpion Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,574
Joined: Sep 2012
Reputation: 260
Post: #158
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
There's no way to confiscate gold without going door-to-door. It's literally no different than attempting to confiscate firearms. If gold was suddenly made illegal people would just hide it. There would be 98% non-compliance as far as selling it back to the government. Gold would just be sitting in peoples' closets and safes or be literally buried in the woods until some point in the future when it became legal again.

In contrast, to confiscate Bitcoin (or drive it to zero, basically the same thing) all the government has to do is criminalize conversion into USD and go after the big wallets and processors. It's also highly likely within the next few years that either a government, a group of governments or third-party will create their own superior blockchain currency which will be ready for widespread adoption by the average person (Facebook is already trying to do this). In that case the government doesn't even have to go after Bitcoin. The market will drive its value down to zero by itself.

Bitcoin is basically Myspace. Most of the guys on the Bitcoin train are too young to remember Myspace and how it turned out. It's not that the idea itself is bad, but it simply isn't refined enough in its current incarnation and will be replaced before too long.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” - Romans 8:18
10-05-2019 09:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like scorpion's post:
Tail Gunner, Polniy_Sostav
66Scorpio Offline
Woodpecker
**

Posts: 455
Joined: Aug 2015
Reputation: 2
Post: #159
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
Am I being to simplistic to think that if your opinion is that everything will collapse tomorrow then maybe you should buy physical gold to hold in hand and leverage that mofo by borrowing on that as collateral??
10-05-2019 09:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Leonard D Neubache Offline
Owl
******
Gold Member

Posts: 11,678
Joined: Mar 2016
Reputation: 209
Post: #160
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
A lot of people IMO make the mistake of premising future government interactions based on past government interactions on a purely intra-national basis.

If the bolsheviks gain power then, yes, expect them to go door to door and execute people who don't comply. Holders of gold are the slim minority and nobody is going to start a civil war on their behalf. Between digital records and snitches looking to get a reward or simply a pat on the head there will be plenty of leads to follow and plenty of fingers to smash with hammers until people start to talk. Forget the days of Frankie D. There's no reason the kind of nastiness that happened in the USSR can't happen in the West today. Particularly if you're foolish enough to live in a blue hive.

Unless the rebellion grows some teeth and actually wins then I predict that "revenue squads" consisting of thugs operating under something akin to privateer laws will be given a very free hand to seek out "hoarders" and engage in whatever behavior that gets results. They get a cut. Their CO gets a cut. Then Uncle Sanchez gets the rest. This is what ANTIFA is in the baby-step stages of becoming.

Honestly the fact that the US government had the gall to ban holding gold way back in '33 lays bare the nonsense mantras of "it can't happen here".

Nobody started a bloody rebellion over it back then and nobody will start a bloody rebellion over it now.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
10-05-2019 09:33 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Tail Gunner Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,705
Joined: Jan 2012
Reputation: 47
Post: #161
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
(10-05-2019 08:35 AM)bucky Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 08:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Government: Based on transaction records, we have reason to believe you are in possession of gold.
Gold Holder: Lol. I don't know what you're talking about.
Government: Lol. You can spend some time in jail until you remember.

Government: Based on transaction records, we have reason to believe you are in possession of bitcoin.
Bitcoin Holder: Lol. I don't know what you're talking about.
Government: Lol. You can spend some time in jail until you remember.

Key difference. Gold can be acquired while leaving no digital trail so you can avoid that knock on the door in the first place.

Regardless, I can see either scenario you describe happening IRL. This is why I was skeptical of Tailgunner's advice to just make low-risk investments. Almost all Americans gave up their gold when Roosevelt banned it in 1933. The risk-to-benefit just didn't make holding on to it feasible.

That is why I stated: "You can store gold in a world-class vault in a country where crime is almost irrelevant (Switzerland, Singapore, etc.)." Typically, most countries only have legal jurisdiction over people and items within its borders.

Moreover, this is why it is important to have a second citizenship or at least a second residency in another country. If your government threatens your gold (or anything else), not only is your gold located outside the country but you can also quickly remove yourself as well (and live on your gold and other investments until sanity returns to your home country). This is exactly what many wealthy and middle-class Venezuelans are currently doing.

It is also a myth that the USG forcibly confiscated gold: "In fact, safe deposit boxes held by individuals were not forcibly searched or seized under the order and the few prosecutions that occurred in the 1930s for gold 'hoarding' were executed under different statutes."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_...Order_6102

As Scorpin stated, "If gold was suddenly made illegal people would just hide it." There is a reason that you can buy all the pre-1933 U.S. gold coins that you want today. The compliance rate would be similar to compliance rates for firearm confiscation. Has anyone ever read about the compliance rate for firearm confiscation in Soviet Bloc nations after WWII, when the penalty was death? If not, you should.

I will say it again: Many people on this thread have a victim mentality and they do not study what actually happened during past history -- and, as a result, they do not learn from it. They hear mythical stories about the past and then they throw up their hands and say: "Why bother?"

Congratulations! That is just what your government wants to hear. You have been successfully brainwashed into compliance and subservience. You are now part of the vast herd that will be milked during the next big crisis.

Until 1770, the scientific community believed that a fictional element called phlogiston was what caused items to burn, not oxygen. Believe what you wish.
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2019 10:10 AM by Tail Gunner.)
10-05-2019 09:51 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Tail Gunner's post:
RDF
Leonard D Neubache Offline
Owl
******
Gold Member

Posts: 11,678
Joined: Mar 2016
Reputation: 209
Post: #162
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
(10-05-2019 09:51 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  ...

As Scorpin stated, "If gold was suddenly made illegal people would just hide it." There is a reason that you can buy all the pre-1933 U.S. gold coins that you want today. The compliance rate would be similar to compliance rates for firearm confiscation. Has anyone ever read about the compliance rate for firearm confiscation in Soviet Bloc nations after WWII, when the penalty was death? If not, you should.

I will say it again: Many people on this thread have a victim mentality and they do not study what actually happened during past history -- and, as a result, they do not learn from it.
...

People quote histories as and how it suits their personal world view. How many of those Soviet Bloc people that kept their firearms could actually use them in day to day life? Not many.
What good is your foreign gold if the government puts you on a no-fly list before you can get out of the country?

These are not reasons to "not try". They are simply possibilities that ought to be considered. For one they raise the question of whether it's better to get out now while the getting is good.

Historic oppressions and genocides did actually happen. Mass confiscations of wealth and executions of the wealthy have actually occurred. Having a passport and a bunch of gold in a foreign vault still leaves you more vulnerable than the guy in Appalachia with a decade's worth of food and ammunition.

In a lot of ways mo' money mo' problems, unless you're deadly honest about when it's time to GTFO and assume a new identity entirely. It's the dawning of the digital age and extradition orders for whacked out crimes against social justice are going to set a new standard for proving just how small the world really is.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
10-05-2019 11:56 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Leonard D Neubache's post:
bucky
bucky Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 519
Joined: Nov 2015
Reputation: 3
Post: #163
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
(10-05-2019 09:04 AM)scorpion Wrote:  There's no way to confiscate gold without going door-to-door. It's literally no different than attempting to confiscate firearms. If gold was suddenly made illegal people would just hide it. There would be 98% non-compliance as far as selling it back to the government. Gold would just be sitting in peoples' closets and safes or be literally buried in the woods until some point in the future when it became legal again.

My understanding is that that is not what happened in 1933. Almost everyone turned their gold in because while it's true that it's relatively easy to hide, it's also very difficult to do anything useful with it under such a ban. Sure, you could try to ride it out until it becomes legal again, but that meant waiting for decades last time around.

Caveat, I don't think the USG will try to ban private gold ownership again. On the other hand, a lot of things have happened in the last few decades that I didn't expect.

Feminism in ten words: "Stop objectifying women! Can't you see I've hit the wall?" -Leonard D Neubache
10-05-2019 12:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like bucky's post:
Leonard D Neubache, redbeard
Polniy_Sostav Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 697
Joined: Apr 2017
Reputation: 6
Post: #164
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
(10-05-2019 09:51 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 08:35 AM)bucky Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 08:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Government: Based on transaction records, we have reason to believe you are in possession of gold.
Gold Holder: Lol. I don't know what you're talking about.
Government: Lol. You can spend some time in jail until you remember.

Government: Based on transaction records, we have reason to believe you are in possession of bitcoin.
Bitcoin Holder: Lol. I don't know what you're talking about.
Government: Lol. You can spend some time in jail until you remember.

Key difference. Gold can be acquired while leaving no digital trail so you can avoid that knock on the door in the first place.

Regardless, I can see either scenario you describe happening IRL. This is why I was skeptical of Tailgunner's advice to just make low-risk investments. Almost all Americans gave up their gold when Roosevelt banned it in 1933. The risk-to-benefit just didn't make holding on to it feasible.

That is why I stated: "You can store gold in a world-class vault in a country where crime is almost irrelevant (Switzerland, Singapore, etc.)." Typically, most countries only have legal jurisdiction over people and items within its borders.

Moreover, this is why it is important to have a second citizenship or at least a second residency in another country. If your government threatens your gold (or anything else), not only is your gold located outside the country but you can also quickly remove yourself as well (and live on your gold and other investments until sanity returns to your home country). This is exactly what many wealthy and middle-class Venezuelans are currently doing.

It is also a myth that the USG forcibly confiscated gold: "In fact, safe deposit boxes held by individuals were not forcibly searched or seized under the order and the few prosecutions that occurred in the 1930s for gold 'hoarding' were executed under different statutes."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_...Order_6102

As Scorpin stated, "If gold was suddenly made illegal people would just hide it." There is a reason that you can buy all the pre-1933 U.S. gold coins that you want today. The compliance rate would be similar to compliance rates for firearm confiscation. Has anyone ever read about the compliance rate for firearm confiscation in Soviet Bloc nations after WWII, when the penalty was death? If not, you should.

I will say it again: Many people on this thread have a victim mentality and they do not study what actually happened during past history -- and, as a result, they do not learn from it. They hear mythical stories about the past and then they throw up their hands and say: "Why bother?"

Congratulations! That is just what your government wants to hear. You have been successfully brainwashed into compliance and subservience. You are now part of the vast herd that will be milked during the next big crisis.

Until 1770, the scientific community believed that a fictional element called phlogiston was what caused items to burn, not oxygen. Believe what you wish.

10 years ago , a war between Russia and Ukraine would have been unthinkable.
Singapore or Switzerland are not immune. Especially since they are small countries and with modern weapons available to virtually any country

At times of globalism , do not see the nation as anything protective.

In my opinion your gold is safer 6 meter deep in a Siberian forest or in a fake roof toilets of a Vanuatu office than in "world-class vaults"

And be sure that when war starts , the first thing you won't find is your "world-class vault"
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2019 09:35 AM by Polniy_Sostav.)
10-06-2019 09:35 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Polniy_Sostav's post:
Leonard D Neubache, Syberpunk
bucky Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 519
Joined: Nov 2015
Reputation: 3
Post: #165
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
(10-06-2019 09:35 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 09:51 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 08:35 AM)bucky Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 08:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Government: Based on transaction records, we have reason to believe you are in possession of gold.
Gold Holder: Lol. I don't know what you're talking about.
Government: Lol. You can spend some time in jail until you remember.

Government: Based on transaction records, we have reason to believe you are in possession of bitcoin.
Bitcoin Holder: Lol. I don't know what you're talking about.
Government: Lol. You can spend some time in jail until you remember.

Key difference. Gold can be acquired while leaving no digital trail so you can avoid that knock on the door in the first place.

Regardless, I can see either scenario you describe happening IRL. This is why I was skeptical of Tailgunner's advice to just make low-risk investments. Almost all Americans gave up their gold when Roosevelt banned it in 1933. The risk-to-benefit just didn't make holding on to it feasible.

That is why I stated: "You can store gold in a world-class vault in a country where crime is almost irrelevant (Switzerland, Singapore, etc.)." Typically, most countries only have legal jurisdiction over people and items within its borders.

Moreover, this is why it is important to have a second citizenship or at least a second residency in another country. If your government threatens your gold (or anything else), not only is your gold located outside the country but you can also quickly remove yourself as well (and live on your gold and other investments until sanity returns to your home country). This is exactly what many wealthy and middle-class Venezuelans are currently doing.

It is also a myth that the USG forcibly confiscated gold: "In fact, safe deposit boxes held by individuals were not forcibly searched or seized under the order and the few prosecutions that occurred in the 1930s for gold 'hoarding' were executed under different statutes."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_...Order_6102

As Scorpin stated, "If gold was suddenly made illegal people would just hide it." There is a reason that you can buy all the pre-1933 U.S. gold coins that you want today. The compliance rate would be similar to compliance rates for firearm confiscation. Has anyone ever read about the compliance rate for firearm confiscation in Soviet Bloc nations after WWII, when the penalty was death? If not, you should.

I will say it again: Many people on this thread have a victim mentality and they do not study what actually happened during past history -- and, as a result, they do not learn from it. They hear mythical stories about the past and then they throw up their hands and say: "Why bother?"

Congratulations! That is just what your government wants to hear. You have been successfully brainwashed into compliance and subservience. You are now part of the vast herd that will be milked during the next big crisis.

Until 1770, the scientific community believed that a fictional element called phlogiston was what caused items to burn, not oxygen. Believe what you wish.

10 years ago , a war between Russia and Ukraine would have been unthinkable.
Singapore or Switzerland are not immune. Especially since they are small countries and with modern weapons available to virtually any country

At times of globalism , do not see the nation as anything protective.

In my opinion your gold is safer 6 meter deep in a Siberian forest or in a fake roof toilets of a Vanuatu office than in "world-class vaults"

And be sure that when war starts , the first thing you won't find is your "world-class vault"

Yes, I didn't get the part about the "world-class vault" being a foolproof method to store your gold either. Either someone else controls access to the vault and can cut off that access at will, or you control access to the vault and all someone needs is a $5 hammer to get in. Not to crack the vault directly of course, but to hit you with the hammer until you open it for them.

My larger point about thieves entering and rust corrupting was that no physical or financial asset can ever be 100% secure, and that things that seem unthinkable can easily happen. Same point you're making, I think.

Feminism in ten words: "Stop objectifying women! Can't you see I've hit the wall?" -Leonard D Neubache
10-06-2019 09:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Tail Gunner Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,705
Joined: Jan 2012
Reputation: 47
Post: #166
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
(10-06-2019 09:35 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 09:51 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 08:35 AM)bucky Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 08:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Government: Based on transaction records, we have reason to believe you are in possession of gold.
Gold Holder: Lol. I don't know what you're talking about.
Government: Lol. You can spend some time in jail until you remember.

Government: Based on transaction records, we have reason to believe you are in possession of bitcoin.
Bitcoin Holder: Lol. I don't know what you're talking about.
Government: Lol. You can spend some time in jail until you remember.

Key difference. Gold can be acquired while leaving no digital trail so you can avoid that knock on the door in the first place.

Regardless, I can see either scenario you describe happening IRL. This is why I was skeptical of Tailgunner's advice to just make low-risk investments. Almost all Americans gave up their gold when Roosevelt banned it in 1933. The risk-to-benefit just didn't make holding on to it feasible.

That is why I stated: "You can store gold in a world-class vault in a country where crime is almost irrelevant (Switzerland, Singapore, etc.)." Typically, most countries only have legal jurisdiction over people and items within its borders.

Moreover, this is why it is important to have a second citizenship or at least a second residency in another country. If your government threatens your gold (or anything else), not only is your gold located outside the country but you can also quickly remove yourself as well (and live on your gold and other investments until sanity returns to your home country). This is exactly what many wealthy and middle-class Venezuelans are currently doing.

It is also a myth that the USG forcibly confiscated gold: "In fact, safe deposit boxes held by individuals were not forcibly searched or seized under the order and the few prosecutions that occurred in the 1930s for gold 'hoarding' were executed under different statutes."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_...Order_6102

As Scorpin stated, "If gold was suddenly made illegal people would just hide it." There is a reason that you can buy all the pre-1933 U.S. gold coins that you want today. The compliance rate would be similar to compliance rates for firearm confiscation. Has anyone ever read about the compliance rate for firearm confiscation in Soviet Bloc nations after WWII, when the penalty was death? If not, you should.

I will say it again: Many people on this thread have a victim mentality and they do not study what actually happened during past history -- and, as a result, they do not learn from it. They hear mythical stories about the past and then they throw up their hands and say: "Why bother?"

Congratulations! That is just what your government wants to hear. You have been successfully brainwashed into compliance and subservience. You are now part of the vast herd that will be milked during the next big crisis.

Until 1770, the scientific community believed that a fictional element called phlogiston was what caused items to burn, not oxygen. Believe what you wish.

10 years ago , a war between Russia and Ukraine would have been unthinkable.
Singapore or Switzerland are not immune. Especially since they are small countries and with modern weapons available to virtually any country

At times of globalism , do not see the nation as anything protective.

In my opinion your gold is safer 6 meter deep in a Siberian forest or in a fake roof toilets of a Vanuatu office than in "world-class vaults"

And be sure that when war starts , the first thing you won't find is your "world-class vault"

Sure, someone will attack Switzerland when even Hitler would not expend the men, money, and equipment necessary to conquer such mountainous terrain where the country is famously neutral and every man is a member of the national militia. And who will ever attack the Cayman Islands? Your comment makes no sense. All you need to do is examine history and current geopolitics and select a handful of safe countries in which to diversify.

Moreover, if you are properly diversified, even if your comment made sense, it would be irrelevant. Who cares if China takes your silver in Singapore, if your land, apartments, business, gold, and cash are all located in an assortment of other countries?
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2019 09:58 AM by Tail Gunner.)
10-06-2019 09:57 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
bucky Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 519
Joined: Nov 2015
Reputation: 3
Post: #167
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
(10-06-2019 09:57 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(10-06-2019 09:35 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 09:51 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 08:35 AM)bucky Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 08:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Government: Based on transaction records, we have reason to believe you are in possession of gold.
Gold Holder: Lol. I don't know what you're talking about.
Government: Lol. You can spend some time in jail until you remember.

Government: Based on transaction records, we have reason to believe you are in possession of bitcoin.
Bitcoin Holder: Lol. I don't know what you're talking about.
Government: Lol. You can spend some time in jail until you remember.

Key difference. Gold can be acquired while leaving no digital trail so you can avoid that knock on the door in the first place.

Regardless, I can see either scenario you describe happening IRL. This is why I was skeptical of Tailgunner's advice to just make low-risk investments. Almost all Americans gave up their gold when Roosevelt banned it in 1933. The risk-to-benefit just didn't make holding on to it feasible.

That is why I stated: "You can store gold in a world-class vault in a country where crime is almost irrelevant (Switzerland, Singapore, etc.)." Typically, most countries only have legal jurisdiction over people and items within its borders.

Moreover, this is why it is important to have a second citizenship or at least a second residency in another country. If your government threatens your gold (or anything else), not only is your gold located outside the country but you can also quickly remove yourself as well (and live on your gold and other investments until sanity returns to your home country). This is exactly what many wealthy and middle-class Venezuelans are currently doing.

It is also a myth that the USG forcibly confiscated gold: "In fact, safe deposit boxes held by individuals were not forcibly searched or seized under the order and the few prosecutions that occurred in the 1930s for gold 'hoarding' were executed under different statutes."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_...Order_6102

As Scorpin stated, "If gold was suddenly made illegal people would just hide it." There is a reason that you can buy all the pre-1933 U.S. gold coins that you want today. The compliance rate would be similar to compliance rates for firearm confiscation. Has anyone ever read about the compliance rate for firearm confiscation in Soviet Bloc nations after WWII, when the penalty was death? If not, you should.

I will say it again: Many people on this thread have a victim mentality and they do not study what actually happened during past history -- and, as a result, they do not learn from it. They hear mythical stories about the past and then they throw up their hands and say: "Why bother?"

Congratulations! That is just what your government wants to hear. You have been successfully brainwashed into compliance and subservience. You are now part of the vast herd that will be milked during the next big crisis.

Until 1770, the scientific community believed that a fictional element called phlogiston was what caused items to burn, not oxygen. Believe what you wish.

10 years ago , a war between Russia and Ukraine would have been unthinkable.
Singapore or Switzerland are not immune. Especially since they are small countries and with modern weapons available to virtually any country

At times of globalism , do not see the nation as anything protective.

In my opinion your gold is safer 6 meter deep in a Siberian forest or in a fake roof toilets of a Vanuatu office than in "world-class vaults"

And be sure that when war starts , the first thing you won't find is your "world-class vault"

Sure, someone will attack Switzerland when even Hitler would not expend the men, money, and equipment necessary to conquer such mountainous terrain where the country is famously neutral and every man is a member of the national militia. And who will ever attack the Cayman Islands? Your comment makes no sense. All you need to do is examine history and current geopolitics and select a handful of safe countries in which to diversify.

Moreover, if you are properly diversified, even if your comment made sense, it would be irrelevant. Who cares if China takes your silver in Singapore, if your land, apartments, business, gold, and cash are all located in an assortment of other countries?

Diversifying as much as possible definitely makes sense to me. If you can have multiple assets in different countries, go for it. Not arguing that at all. Dual citizenship or at least legal residency in another country is nice too, if you can get it. My wife is from one of the more crime-ridden, impoverished parts of Latin America, but I can definitely imagine a future where life there would be preferable to the US. You should definitely plan for the future, while recognizing that none of your plans are foolproof.

Feminism in ten words: "Stop objectifying women! Can't you see I've hit the wall?" -Leonard D Neubache
10-06-2019 10:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes bucky's post:
Tail Gunner
SlickyBoy Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 2,167
Joined: Nov 2014
Reputation: 20
Post: #168
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
(10-05-2019 09:04 AM)scorpion Wrote:  It's also highly likely within the next few years that either a government, a group of governments or third-party will create their own superior blockchain currency which will be ready for widespread adoption by the average person...

Rickards wrote about the Chinese working on something like this in Aftermath. They are using a blockchain-based electronic currency along with an actual currency component. I forget the exact details but the goal is obviously genuine decoupling from the dollar. Whether they can pull it off is another question.

Twitter: @_slickyboy
Occasional contributor at Return of Kings (while it lasted)
10-07-2019 10:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes SlickyBoy's post:
bucky
Tail Gunner Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,705
Joined: Jan 2012
Reputation: 47
Post: #169
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
(10-07-2019 10:14 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 09:04 AM)scorpion Wrote:  It's also highly likely within the next few years that either a government, a group of governments or third-party will create their own superior blockchain currency which will be ready for widespread adoption by the average person...

Rickards wrote about the Chinese working on something like this in Aftermath. They are using a blockchain-based electronic currency along with an actual currency component. I forget the exact details but the goal is obviously genuine decoupling from the dollar. Whether they can pull it off is another question.

It is far far more likely that the industrial nations would institute a system of Special Drawing Rights to replace the USD as the world's reserve currency. It consists of a basket of currencies that includes the US Dollar, Japanese Yen, Euro, and British Pound. Even that possibility is very unlikely for the foreseeable future, until the rest of the world has enough leverage to replace the USD as the world's reserve currency, which will likely take an epic financial panic. China has hoarded gold in an effort to get added to the basket of currencies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights

Economist John Maynard Keynes first proposed a supranational currency known as "Bancor" at the Bretton Woods conference, which would have been similar to SDRs, but his proposal was rejected. The U.S. had too much leverage after WWII and it did not fully understand all the implications of having the world's reserve currency.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/fo...rights.asp

It is highly unlikely that China can do anything on its own (except for a few instances of bilateral trade with a few nations), even with the help of Russia, Iran, Turkey, and some other nations. The wild card is Saudi Arabia. If it elected to drop the Petrodollar, the USD's status as the the world's reserve currency could literally evaporate overnight, which explains Washington's close alliance with Saudi Arabia.

I am sure that Rickards must have discussed SDRs. I have his new book on order. I have not read it yet.
(This post was last modified: 10-07-2019 10:42 PM by Tail Gunner.)
10-07-2019 10:37 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Tail Gunner's post:
SlickyBoy
SlickyBoy Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 2,167
Joined: Nov 2014
Reputation: 20
Post: #170
RE: Stop 401k contributions or sell off gold (or "is the collapse coming?")
He did discuss them, at length in Chapter 6. He also covers the changes with respect to the Yuan joining the mix, and SDR price of gold. He is convinced the SDR-pegged-to-gold market is being subtly rigged already, not by the IMF, but by China.

Twitter: @_slickyboy
Occasional contributor at Return of Kings (while it lasted)
10-07-2019 10:58 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Do you own physical Gold or Silver or Both? thegmanifesto 408 162,094 09-15-2019 07:41 AM
Last Post: Polniy_Sostav
  Gold backed crypto Blake2 4 708 09-07-2019 10:49 AM
Last Post: [email protected]
  Silver/Gold and other Precious Metal "stacking" Polniy_Sostav 9 2,125 07-19-2019 07:51 PM
Last Post: zoom

Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | RooshV.com | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication