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The Catholic Church thread
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NoMoreTO Offline
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Post: #126
RE: The Catholic Church thread
(09-20-2019 01:24 AM)RoadKill503 Wrote:  @redbeard

Right? I was hoping for a Catholic faith/lifestyle thread, not debating the Church like it's politics.

Exactly. If you think the Church is here to solve your political problem then you're on the wrong thread.

I tried putting some Catholic Material up about Oath of Modernism, Amazon Synod, First Popes. There doesn't seem to be much of a knowledge level or interest in discussion.

As a recently practicing Catholic, I feel people really should say if they are Catholics or not when speaking on here. I do that in the Orthodox thread and would appreciate being able to discern. Imagine if you go into a Catholic Church group but you are of a different denomination and join the discussion like you are one of them. It sows confusion.

Its like being from Colombia and going on the Poland thread and acting like you grew up in Poland and you know all about it.

“Where the danger is, so grows the saving element.” ~ German poet Hoelderlin
09-20-2019 11:17 AM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #127
RE: The Catholic Church thread
Catholics play the same role in denominations that Boomers play in generations.

“The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents.”

Carl Jung
09-20-2019 11:19 AM
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Post: #128
RE: The Catholic Church thread
(09-20-2019 11:19 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  Catholics play the same role in denominations that Boomers play in generations.

Are you Catholic?

If not go start a Protestant or Bible Believer thread rather than throw shade.

“Where the danger is, so grows the saving element.” ~ German poet Hoelderlin
09-20-2019 11:32 AM
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worldwidetraveler Offline
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Post: #129
RE: The Catholic Church thread
(09-20-2019 11:32 AM)NoMoreTO Wrote:  
(09-20-2019 11:19 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  Catholics play the same role in denominations that Boomers play in generations.

Are you Catholic?

Worst, debeguiled is a boomer. Pray for him!

Seriously, he was making a joke, sort of. Catholicism tends to bring out a lot of hate, just like mentioning boomers. He wasn't throwing shade. He was making a funny observation.
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2019 12:15 PM by worldwidetraveler.)
09-20-2019 11:35 AM
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Belgrano Offline
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Post: #130
RE: The Catholic Church thread
(09-20-2019 10:22 AM)Mage Wrote:  
(09-20-2019 08:10 AM)Belgrano Wrote:  
(09-19-2019 11:36 PM)Mage Wrote:  
(09-19-2019 04:56 PM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  
(09-19-2019 09:12 AM)Mage Wrote:  In anaglosphere, Varg Vikirnes on of best and most virtuous English speaking Pagans got his YouTube channel deleted.

It's odd that you chose a convicted murderer as your example of "on[e] of the best and most virtuous English speaking Pagans."

It's odd that you chose a convicted blasphemer, sabbath denier, rebellious anarchist and caller for violent uprising as your savior.

The whole reason Jesus was betrayed and ultimately executed was that he was not calling for a violent uprising.

Your reading comprehension is low.

Please see the context of the sentence you quoted from me.

You called "Varg Vikirnes" (his actual name is Varg Vikernes) "on[e] of the best and most virtuous English speaking Pagans."

This prompted MichaelWitcoff to point out that Varg Vikernes is a convicted murderer.

Which is a factually correct statement.


You then wrote: "It's odd that you chose a (...) caller for violent uprising as your savior."

The only entity that MichaelWitcoff has accepted as his savior is Jesus Christ, and you know that.

Therefore you were talking about Jesus Christ, describing him as a "caller for violent uprising".

Which he wasn't.

Your statement is factually wrong.


And if you read between the lines, the question MichaelWitcoff actually posed was the following:
What exactly does it say about Paganism if someone who burned down numerous churches in the name of this religion and even comitted a murder, for which he never showed any remorse, can be considered a "best and most virtuous Pagan"?

Now perhaps Paganism is actually a religion of peace and Varg just misunderstood its teachings and fell for wrong interpretations.

In that case, what exactly does it say about your interpretation of Paganism if despite all the things he's done you still consider him a "best and most virtuous Pagan"?

What are the virtues of Paganism?
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2019 11:38 AM by Belgrano.)
09-20-2019 11:35 AM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #131
RE: The Catholic Church thread
(09-20-2019 11:35 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  
(09-20-2019 11:32 AM)NoMoreTO Wrote:  
(09-20-2019 11:19 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  Catholics play the same role in denominations that Boomers play in generations.

Are you Catholic?

Worst, debeguiled is a boomer. Pray for him!

Hah! I was showing sympathy for the Catholic plight and end up on the receiving end of reckless accusations!

A Boomer who was raised Catholic, and not only that, I am misunderstood on my favorite forum.

I lose across multiple dimensions!

Can't win for losin' around here!

(And if you don't recognize that expression, don't worry. It's old! It will die out any day.)

Hope my predicament helps cheer up Kona.

“The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents.”

Carl Jung
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2019 11:39 AM by debeguiled.)
09-20-2019 11:38 AM
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worldwidetraveler Offline
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Post: #132
RE: The Catholic Church thread
No worries debeguiled, this whole thread is a train wreck. Everyone is defensive and any joke or comment can be taken as an attack.

Kona would be pleased.
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2019 11:51 AM by worldwidetraveler.)
09-20-2019 11:50 AM
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debeguiled
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Post: #133
RE: The Catholic Church thread
(09-20-2019 11:35 AM)Belgrano Wrote:  
(09-20-2019 10:22 AM)Mage Wrote:  
(09-20-2019 08:10 AM)Belgrano Wrote:  
(09-19-2019 11:36 PM)Mage Wrote:  
(09-19-2019 04:56 PM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  It's odd that you chose a convicted murderer as your example of "on[e] of the best and most virtuous English speaking Pagans."

It's odd that you chose a convicted blasphemer, sabbath denier, rebellious anarchist and caller for violent uprising as your savior.

The whole reason Jesus was betrayed and ultimately executed was that he was not calling for a violent uprising.

Your reading comprehension is low.

Please see the context of the sentence you quoted from me.

You called "Varg Vikirnes" (his actual name is Varg Vikernes) "on[e] of the best and most virtuous English speaking Pagans."

This prompted MichaelWitcoff to point out that Varg Vikernes is a convicted murderer.

Which is a factually correct statement.


You then wrote: "It's odd that you chose a (...) caller for violent uprising as your savior."

The only entity that MichaelWitcoff has accepted as his savior is Jesus Christ, and you know that.

Therefore you were talking about Jesus Christ, describing him as a "caller for violent uprising".

Which he wasn't.

Your statement is factually wrong.


And if you read between the lines, the question MichaelWitcoff actually posed was the following:
What exactly does it say about Paganism if someone who burned down numerous churches in the name of this religion and even comitted a murder, for which he never showed any remorse, can be considered a "best and most virtuous Pagan"?

Now perhaps Paganism is actually a religion of peace and Varg just misunderstood its teachings and fell for wrong interpretations.

In that case, what exactly does it say about your interpretation of Paganism if despite all the things he's done you still consider him a "best and most virtuous Pagan"?

What are the virtues of Paganism?

Your reading comprehension is really shitty.

I said Jesus was convicted as a rebellious up-riser. I didn't say he was one. Can you understand that difference?

Therefore if you judge a man by what a secular court says, without bothering to listen to what he says and what life he lives, you should apply the same system of measuring merit to Jesus as to Varg.

Varg Vikirnes killed a man in preemptive defense after receiving multiple death treats. Under secular system it classifies as murder, but any human with inherent justice understands it isn't.

Anyway Varg became Pagan in prison and served his sentence. Even if he did had killed a man without justification, his guilt is erased by sentence and he changed a lot of his beliefs in prison. If some past criminal finds Jesus in prison would you accept him as a born again Christian or would you treat him as an evil murderer even after he has served his sentence?


Varg is virtuous because:
a)he has a big family with mutually faithful wife and many white children and he spends a lot of time parenting.
b)he is living a natural lifestyle, close with nature, not polluting and away from temptations of modern civilization.
c)he doesn't even accept donations and earns his living from selling books and his rpg game.
d)he is a very masculine guy.

Paganism is a faith but not a religion.
Paganism is not inherently a peaceful faith because it values honor above life and allows for use of force if honor is seriously attacked. However Paganism is more peaceful then monotheism because it is fine with people having different beliefs and exploring the divine via any number of gods under any names and proper paganism also doesn't even mind if you make lighthearted fun of gods.

There is no such a thing as peaceful faith or a religion except for the religion of sheep going to slaughter in acceptance and tolerance. As long as you got some standards - you are not peaceful.

When faith and religions try to prove that they are more peaceful then an other - it's cringe worthy. They are dancing under the flute of secularism and gospel of tolerance of sin.

At the same time a faith or religion must prove it is capable of polite discourse and exchange of humor. Today Christianity errs on pacifist side, Islam errs on violent side. Christianity has been unnecessary violent in earlier periods of history.

Both Paganism and monotheism and atheism are capable of wars, but religious wars are the domain of monotheism, like wars for utopia is domain of atheism. Pagans only wage honest wars for resources.
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2019 12:39 PM by Mage.)
09-20-2019 12:09 PM
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Post: #134
RE: The Catholic Church thread
(09-20-2019 10:25 AM)Mage Wrote:  
(09-20-2019 08:54 AM)Augustus_Principe Wrote:  LOL, now i know you know absolutely nothing about Jesus Christ. It's elementary school knowledge that he was against the Pharisee Jews, who corrupted the religion(while they were exiled to Babylon, they picked up pagan rituals). This is why these "new jews" did not accept Jesus Christ.

Your reading comprehension is low too.

You Christians are prone to take sentences so easily out of Context - no wonder you cannot agree on what is written in your Holy book.

(09-20-2019 08:54 AM)Augustus_Principe Wrote:  Get out with your pagan, WIGNAT nonsense before I report the rest of your post for antagonizing and contributing nothing to the topic at hand. Make your own thread.

Had you integrity to read this discussion fro the start you would know that I contributed peacefully on how to recognioze a truly practicing Catholic form a nominal one - but Satan loving Christians like 911 and Leonard just have to attack me because of my profile pic and so the discussion derailed.

Please dear Christians - learn how to read. It's vital if you belong to religion based on text.

Also do no threaten me with just 12 post under your belt. Since Roosh's conversion and most guys fallowing the leader, I may disagree with majority of this forum on religious issue, but I still have contributed on the forum more then you on various issues then you enough over time. You are in no position to judge me here mr. Male Feminist. If established members like Leonard complain about me, so be it, but you shut up until you gain some reputation here.

Ok wignat. Someone attacked you in regards to practicing Yoga and you decided to attack a whole religion(not just the user(s) who attacked you and your lifestyle) because of it.

"Go and sit in your Church praying and pouring ashes on your head daily for 16 hours and sleep the rest 8. That is the only way you are going to escape the Great Satan that is everywhere, while your puny god is only in your Church."

Also, you insinuating that "Yoga and meditation" are superior to Christian Praying/meditation shows again, that you are ignorant of Catholicism. Catholics throughout history have practiced personal mediation. it's not just a Far East practice. Through contemplation and prayer, Saints have reached Transforming Union with God. You're supposed to pray at minimum, 15 minutes a day, 30 minutes preferred and one hour, once you have prayed for an extended period of time.(Did you pray on a daily basis during your time as a Catholic?) Some people are capable of praying for HOURS. Just how good of a Catholic were you? Were you without Sin? Going to confessional? Is that why you have numerous post here?(These questions are rhetorical as i'm not interested in hearing your answer, rather for you to contemplate on)

Levels of prayer and reaching Transforming Union:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04324b.htm

Example of saint reaching transforming Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mary_Alacoque

440pg book on prayer:

The Ways of Mental Prayer

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/089555...0DER&psc=1

I understand that you "Grew up catholic" but please, do not act here as if you are an authoritative figure on Catholicism because your family and priest failed you on the Catholic religion. You are like the kids that go to Catholic School and come out Atheist or degenerate, stating "I've been to catholic school i know what i'm talking about". I get it. My family is Catholic, we didn't go to church often and I, for a while, was lost and stopped believing. I only started my pathway to God again a few years ago. I know there is an epidemic here in the U.S of the Catholic Church failing to teach their parish the true way of Catholicism. You know this as you yourself already pointed out. Many of us are trying to pick up the pieces and return greatness to the Church, not follow some Pagan on Youtube or what have you.

Anyway, as long as you and everyone else tones down the hate and lower your ego, the thread may continue on a more positive trajectory. I'm sure you have a lot to contribute in general as you seem to have lots of post on this Internet Message Board, but this thread is not one of them.

Last thing I will post in regards to Yoga. Please watch this informative video. It will do a better job than I ever can in regards to why you shouldn't do Yoga:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiMo_Gyn70Y

Please, as a Catholic DO NOT practice Far East Meditation. As I mentioned before, I'm sure there is some use of it in terms of improving your posture and balancing your body, but you can do those things without practicing Yoga:

http://posturedirect.com/

If you wish to meditate the catholic way, check out the book I posted above, or these below as well:

Catechism of Mental Prayer
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/089555...0DER&psc=1

Deliverance Prayers: For Use by the Laity
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/154105...0DER&psc=1

Uniformity with God's Will
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/089555...0DER&psc=1

Difficulties in Mental Prayer
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/093393...8LDR&psc=1

The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius: or Manresa
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/089555...0DER&psc=1

Conversation With Christ: The Teaching of St. Teresa of Avila About Personal Prayer
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/089555...0DER&psc=1
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2019 12:42 PM by Augustus_Principe.)
09-20-2019 12:10 PM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #135
RE: The Catholic Church thread
(09-20-2019 11:50 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  No worries debeguiled, this whole thread is a train wreck. Everyone is defensive and any joke or comment can be taken as an attack.

Kona would be pleased.

Your reading comprehension sucks!

Beat Mage to it.

That is my tiny win for the day.

“The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents.”

Carl Jung
09-20-2019 12:16 PM
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Wutang Offline
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Post: #136
RE: The Catholic Church thread
There is a Catholic writer/philosopher that I discovered a few years back and is now one of my favorite currently living writers. I know the patron saint for this forum is E. Michael Jones but I would like to submit another one, Edward Feser. Jones is more about cultural issues while Edwards tend to dive more into abstract philosophy though many times he also ties it back into real world, fleshy issues. Here's a post he did about lust and why it's a particularly messy sin even though it's not as grave as say randomly murdering someone who is walking down the street. Rather, the danger is in how it has a way of burrowing into a person's will and warping it that other sins don't have.

http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2019/07/...jsnbt6RL8D

Quote:1. The daughters of lust: In Summa Theologiae II-II.153.5, Aquinas identifies eight “daughters of lust” or malign effects on the intellect and will that tend to follow upon sexual vice. For our purposes, the most important are what he calls blindness of mind and hatred of God. As Aquinas notes in another context, “lust…is about the greatest of pleasures; and these absorb the mind more than any others.” Sexual pleasure is like the pleasure of alcohol use in being perfectly innocent in itself, but also very easy to abuse. Hence, even in someone with otherwise normal sexual desires, a preoccupation with matters of sex has a tendency to cause him to act foolishly in various ways – to exaggerate the importance of sex, to pursue it in ways that are detrimental to his own well-being and that of people who depend on him, to construct rationalizations for such foolish pursuit, and so forth.

In someone with abnormal sexual desires, the effect is even worse. For what determines the good use of a human faculty is the end or purpose toward which it is directed by nature. Hence a healthy moral psychology requires a firm intuitive grasp of what is natural and what is contrary to nature’s purposes. Repeatedly taking sexual pleasure in activity that is directly contrary to nature’s ends dulls the intellect’s perception of nature, to the point that the very idea that some things are contrary to the natural order loses its hold upon the mind. The intellect thereby loses its grip on moral reality.

Feser is an open Thomist and committed to the scholastic philosophy that developed from him and analyzes everything from politics to metaphysics through that lens. I read his book "The Last Superstition" around 2013 and really opened up a new world of thought for me. Prior to reading the book, I held the typical stereotypes that people had of scholastic/medieval philosophy: that it was just merely building castles in the air that never touches reality at any point and nothing more than working through extremely boring and bewildering logical puzzles. The book showed me how this isn't so and how a lot of the questions that these philosophers dealt with actually touches on a lot of real world issues such as homosexuality, abortion, property rights, etc. It was through this book that I learned about nominalism vs realism debate that has raged through the ages and how it has had direct real world consequences on issues related to individualism, "human rights", and the rise of cultural relativism.

The book also provides a pretty good overview of Western philosophy in general, starting off with the Pre-Socratics then moving on to Plato/Aristotle and then to Aquinas/medieval philosophy to Descartes and the start of modern philosophy and then to the current age. I already had general ideas of what Plato, Aristotle, and the other Greek thinkers were all about and their importance but it was just book that really fleshed out their ideas for me and showed me how fundamental they have been for Western thought and civilization. The book isn't meant to be a "beginner's guide to the history of western thought" but it fulfills that role better than a lot of other books that are meant to be that.
09-20-2019 12:40 PM
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worldwidetraveler Offline
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Post: #137
RE: The Catholic Church thread
(09-20-2019 12:09 PM)Mage Wrote:  Varg Vikirnes killed a man in preemptive defense after receiving multiple death treats. Under secular system it classifies as murder, but any human with inherent justice understands it isn't.

I like preemptive defense.

Girlfriend: "Why did you cheat on me with my best friend".

Me: "I saw you looking at another guy and applied preemptive defense strategies."

Girlfriend: "I'm sorry I made you do something you didn't want to do. Please forgive me."

End of scene...
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2019 12:42 PM by worldwidetraveler.)
09-20-2019 12:42 PM
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Mage Offline
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Post: #138
RE: The Catholic Church thread
@ AP

As I explained already in this thread the concept of "if only you had the Christianity/Islam properly explained to you, you would never have had left" is a bogus one.

Mohammedans are notorious for abusing this dialectic but this thread shows Cristians like it too.

I simply have outgrown Christianity.

Christianity is much better then no faith at all and much better then Islam, but it is not as good as, let's say Sanatana Dharma.

As soul matures is finds itself a faith of level of it's maturity level.

First it wants no rules, wants to enjoy gross pleasures to fullest - it's secular materialism

Then it wants some spiritual rules to contain it's former craziness - it's scriptural religions with dogmas and priesthood or gurus.

After that it's mature and can walk on it's own without falling into hedonism - it's time for spirituality involving meditation and personal experience rather then scriptures.

After that may come something else, within each step are many sub-steps and journey is infinite.
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2019 12:56 PM by Mage.)
09-20-2019 12:56 PM
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Post: #139
RE: The Catholic Church thread
(09-20-2019 12:09 PM)Mage Wrote:  Your reading comprehension is really shitty.

I said Jesus was convicted as a rebellious up-riser. I didn't say he was one. Can you understand that difference?

Therefore if you judge a man by what a secular court says, without bothering to listen to what he says and what life he lives, you should apply the same system of measuring merit to Jesus as to Varg.

Do you understand the difference between an innocent man being accused of, and convicted for, a crime he didn't commit versus a guilty man being accused of a crime and rightfully being convicted for it?

The secular court's verdict was right in the case of Varg.

Quote:Varg Vikirnes killed a man in preemptive defense after receiving multiple death treats. Under secular system it classifies as murder, but any human with inherent justice understands it isn't.

Varg drove 450 km to another city, killed a man "with 23 stab wounds—two to the head, five to the neck, and 16 to the back", and then drove back home.

Any human with an inherent sense of justice understands that this is murder.

Quote:Anyway Varg became Pagan in prison and served his sentence. Even if he did had killed a man without justification, his guilt is erased by sentence and he changed a lot of his beliefs in prison. If some past criminal finds Jesus in prison would you accept him as a born again Christian or would you treat him as an evil murderer even after he has served his sentence?


Does he show genuine remorse and repent for his sins?
Because Varg never did.

Quote:Paganism is a faith but not a religion.
Paganism is not inherently a peaceful faith because it values honor above life and allows for use of force if honor is seriously attacked.

Leaving aside the fact that nobody knows what modern Paganism actually entails due to its humble beginnings as a LARP, those precise values concerning honor have recently been reintroduced to Europe from the Middle East, with rather detrimental results.

And valuing pride above life, above everything, seems rather sketchy in general.
It might cause you to, you know, fall.

Quote:However Paganism is more peaceful then monotheism because it is fine with people having different beliefs and exploring the divine via any number of gods under any names and proper paganism also doesn't even mind if you make lighthearted fun of gods.

Is that why Varg, "best and most virtuous" pagan, engaged in arson and burnt down 3 churches?
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2019 01:02 PM by Belgrano.)
09-20-2019 12:57 PM
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Post: #140
RE: The Catholic Church thread
(09-20-2019 12:40 PM)Wutang Wrote:  There is a Catholic writer/philosopher that I discovered a few years back and is now one of my favorite currently living writers. I know the patron saint for this forum is E. Michael Jones but I would like to submit another one, Edward Feser. Jones is more about cultural issues while Edwards tend to dive more into abstract philosophy though many times he also ties it back into real world, fleshy issues. Here's a post he did about lust and why it's a particularly messy sin even though it's not as grave as say randomly murdering someone who is walking down the street. Rather, the danger is in how it has a way of burrowing into a person's will and warping it that other sins don't have.

http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2019/07/...jsnbt6RL8D

Quote:1. The daughters of lust: In Summa Theologiae II-II.153.5, Aquinas identifies eight “daughters of lust” or malign effects on the intellect and will that tend to follow upon sexual vice. For our purposes, the most important are what he calls blindness of mind and hatred of God. As Aquinas notes in another context, “lust…is about the greatest of pleasures; and these absorb the mind more than any others.” Sexual pleasure is like the pleasure of alcohol use in being perfectly innocent in itself, but also very easy to abuse. Hence, even in someone with otherwise normal sexual desires, a preoccupation with matters of sex has a tendency to cause him to act foolishly in various ways – to exaggerate the importance of sex, to pursue it in ways that are detrimental to his own well-being and that of people who depend on him, to construct rationalizations for such foolish pursuit, and so forth.

In someone with abnormal sexual desires, the effect is even worse. For what determines the good use of a human faculty is the end or purpose toward which it is directed by nature. Hence a healthy moral psychology requires a firm intuitive grasp of what is natural and what is contrary to nature’s purposes. Repeatedly taking sexual pleasure in activity that is directly contrary to nature’s ends dulls the intellect’s perception of nature, to the point that the very idea that some things are contrary to the natural order loses its hold upon the mind. The intellect thereby loses its grip on moral reality.

Feser is an open Thomist and committed to the scholastic philosophy that developed from him and analyzes everything from politics to metaphysics through that lens. I read his book "The Last Superstition" around 2013 and really opened up a new world of thought for me. Prior to reading the book, I held the typical stereotypes that people had of scholastic/medieval philosophy: that it was just merely building castles in the air that never touches reality at any point and nothing more than working through extremely boring and bewildering logical puzzles. The book showed me how this isn't so and how a lot of the questions that these philosophers dealt with actually touches on a lot of real world issues such as homosexuality, abortion, property rights, etc. It was through this book that I learned about nominalism vs realism debate that has raged through the ages and how it has had direct real world consequences on issues related to individualism, "human rights", and the rise of cultural relativism.

The book also provides a pretty good overview of Western philosophy in general, starting off with the Pre-Socratics then moving on to Plato/Aristotle and then to Aquinas/medieval philosophy to Descartes and the start of modern philosophy and then to the current age. I already had general ideas of what Plato, Aristotle, and the other Greek thinkers were all about and their importance but it was just book that really fleshed out their ideas for me and showed me how fundamental they have been for Western thought and civilization. The book isn't meant to be a "beginner's guide to the history of western thought" but it fulfills that role better than a lot of other books that are meant to be that.

Thanks for sharing! I've heard of Edward Feser but have not gotten the chance to read his works yet. I'm just starting to get my feet with on Thomism and have read "Thomas Aquinas in 50 Pages: A Layman's Quick Guide to Thomism". Quick and easy read for those wanting to know more on Thomas Aquinas.
09-20-2019 01:03 PM
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Mage Offline
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Post: #141
RE: The Catholic Church thread
@ belgano

Varg is obviously a sinner by Christian standards and will remain such if you judge him by such. You do not seem to understand the Pagan concept of honor, which is not always the same as Muslim understanding of this concept. That is a broad topic, I will not explain it this thread too much as it would be too off topic and would start a series of new conversations. Suffice to say any religion without knowledge on reincarnation is poised to lose understanding of honor. Honor is not pride. Honor is about living an exemplary life with dignity and not being afraid to end that life if dignity has to be lost to continue it. A life without dignity is not worth much, yours or other. Honor is not tied to what you believe as for Muslims. Pagans can appreciate the dignity of differently believing if they do possess such. This is why Paganism has multiple gods that can coexist, but at the same time they are all up to standards of honor and there is no tolerance for degeneracy and weak, amoral gods do not get in the pantheon.
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2019 01:20 PM by Mage.)
09-20-2019 01:05 PM
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Post: #142
RE: The Catholic Church thread
You say you've "outgrown" Christianity, presupposing that you learned and mastered all of its precepts, yet don't seem to have any idea what the church you claim to have grown up in actually teaches. That's why it's so odd that you claim to have been raised Catholic, which you've mentioned multiple times as evidence that you fully understand it - and yet, each time you post about either Christ or the Roman Catholic Church, you demonstrate that you don't even have a basic grasp of the tenets of the faith. Instead you are here telling us that those who are too spiritually mature for such a low-level religion go around committing murder and arson, because of reincarnation and dignity. Everyone with a non-chaotic mind can tell such posts lack any kind of substance or coherence, since you write almost entirely in logical fallacies and shaming tactics. That should indicate to you that your beliefs have no Logos to them - because if Logos, Truth itself, were part of your belief system, you'd be able to articulate exactly what you believe and why instead of these rambling diatribes you keep posting.

I don't blame you and I'm not upset at you. A mind without Logos has no direction, as I well know from experience. The only reason I'm engaging with you and your posts on this thread is so the people reading along can see where the path of paganism leads: to a disordered, chaotic, incoherent mind that slips this way and that because it is built on sand and not rock. I've been there and I get it. Christ heals all.

Return Of Kings contributor and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2019 02:25 PM by MichaelWitcoff.)
09-20-2019 02:23 PM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #143
RE: The Catholic Church thread
(09-20-2019 12:56 PM)Mage Wrote:  I simply have outgrown Christianity.

Christianity is much better then no faith at all and much better then Islam, but it is not as good as, let's say Sanatana Dharma.

Mage practicing his faith.


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09-20-2019 02:59 PM
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Roosh Offline
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Post: #144
RE: The Catholic Church thread
1 week ban for Mage.

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09-20-2019 04:18 PM
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NoMoreTO Offline
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Post: #145
RE: The Catholic Church thread
Quote:Thanks for sharing! I've heard of Edward Feser but have not gotten the chance to read his works yet. I'm just starting to get my feet with on Thomism and have read "Thomas Aquinas in 50 Pages: A Layman's Quick Guide to Thomism". Quick and easy read for those wanting to know more on Thomas Aquinas.

This is an online course you can take, I am finding it very interesting, its giving me a strong foundation, and is easy to follow.

Plus the teaching is orthodox. The guy who runs it Dr. Taylor Marshall can be found on youtube broadcase TNT

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“Where the danger is, so grows the saving element.” ~ German poet Hoelderlin
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2019 05:23 PM by NoMoreTO.)
09-20-2019 05:20 PM
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bucky Offline
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Post: #146
RE: The Catholic Church thread
(09-20-2019 11:50 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  No worries debeguiled, this whole thread is a train wreck. Everyone is defensive and any joke or comment can be taken as an attack.

Kona would be pleased.

Well, I'm enjoying the back-and-forth between Mage and the hardcore Christians, acrimonious as it is. I'm probably in an unusually good position to do that. I'm not Catholic but married to a devout Catholic, and there's a lot I like about the RCC (like their stance on abortion, and their preparing a nice, traditional wife for me who was a virgin before I met her) and a lot I don't (like their support of mass third world immigration) . I'm Christian but not of the type who has a visceral reaction to neo-Paganism. I even vaguely considered the Norse variety myself for a while, but then I realized that I'll never literally believe in Thor and Odin, whereas I do literally believe in Jesus.

Maybe there should be two separate threads, one for Catholics and sympathizers, another for debating the merits, or lack thereof, of the RCC.

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09-20-2019 08:54 PM
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Westcoast99 Offline
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Post: #147
RE: The Catholic Church thread
^Support for mass third world immigration, abolishment of capital punishment, and other marxist positions are not Catholicism, but a reflection of a new church created at Vatican Council II (1965). A new religion, with a new liturgy that came a few years later. Totally inconsistent with previous church teachings.
09-20-2019 09:07 PM
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infowarrior1 Offline
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Post: #148
RE: The Catholic Church thread
@bucky

Norse mythology is good story and RPG fodder in my humble opinion.
09-20-2019 09:55 PM
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An0dyne Offline
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Post: #149
RE: The Catholic Church thread
(09-20-2019 09:07 PM)Westcoast99 Wrote:  ^Support for mass third world immigration, abolishment of capital punishment, and other marxist positions are not Catholicism, but a reflection of a new church created at Vatican Council II (1965). A new religion, with a new liturgy that came a few years later. Totally inconsistent with previous church teachings.

The idea of a "new church" seems inconsistent with Papal ecclesiology. You would essentially be admitting the church was in error, since Vatican II is classified as an Ecumenical Council, which for an institutional body like Rome seems anathema, no?
09-21-2019 04:27 AM
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bucky Offline
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Post: #150
RE: The Catholic Church thread
(09-20-2019 09:07 PM)Westcoast99 Wrote:  ^Support for mass third world immigration, abolishment of capital punishment, and other marxist positions are not Catholicism, but a reflection of a new church created at Vatican Council II (1965). A new religion, with a new liturgy that came a few years later. Totally inconsistent with previous church teachings.

I hear the claim that Vatican II corrupted the church a lot, but I don't know much about it. I'd love to see a thread about Vatican II and how specifically it changed the church. I know about verso populo instead of verso deo and the decline in saying mass in Latin, but that's about it. I read through the wikipedia article once, but I don't recall anything particularly sinister.

I've also heard the claim that a large number of liberal nuns got into the US church after Vatican II and that they were responsible for letting homosexuals into the seminary and subsequently the clergy, but again, I don't really know true that is.

Feminism in ten words: "Stop objectifying women! Can't you see I've hit the wall?" -Leonard D Neubache
09-21-2019 04:31 AM
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