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Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
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Kona Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
I'm currently cohabiting and considering marriage.

Right now I am happy as a lark and so is she.

Aloha!
09-15-2019 11:52 PM
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SilentOne Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
For those of you thinking that she won't stay with you any longer without a marriage, you're cooked either way. Let her walk. That alone should tell you it's all about the money and security for her alone. You can try to rationalize this anyway other way you like, you're only fooling yourself.

"Shes too good to stay with you without a marriage" is nothing but nonsense. Don't fall for it. Don't shift the power to her and the state. Once you do, she can act out and there's nothing you can do about it. Nothing.

Given the current circumstances, I'm not that big on cohabitation but it's doable if you carefully choose her right. I don't care how long you may know somebody, it isn't the same like living with them.

I know some of you just can't help it. You just got to get married. The program within is just too strong. Whether you want to keep up with it or not, the times has changed. For those who still want to play this game of chance, godspeed.
09-15-2019 11:57 PM
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RIslander Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-15-2019 11:52 PM)Kona Wrote:  I'm currently cohabiting and considering marriage.

Right now I am happy as a lark and so is she.

Aloha!

(((lark)))
09-15-2019 11:59 PM
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Captainstabbin Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-15-2019 11:57 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  Don't shift the power to her and the state. Once you do, she can act out and there's nothing you can do about it. Nothing.

I wonder if the answer is an ecclesiastical marriage without any legal documents. It seems like the state and the Church have very different definitions and goals for marriage. I don't see the point in risking everything for a woman who may be dishonest in her reasons for getting married and her obligations within a marriage. One marriage can be dissolved with few complications (even Catholic tribunals rarely refuse an annulment), the other results in a financial disaster.

Of course the state will catch up eventually and beef up laws to declare it a common law marriage but that risk exists for cohabitation too. With any luck, your wife has proven herself proper by the time that happens anyway.
09-16-2019 12:30 AM
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sanbruno Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-15-2019 10:20 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  ^ Correlation vs causation - it's certainly an argument to consider. I can't remember how or if this was dealt with in the book or studies as I read it a few year ago.

(09-15-2019 10:01 PM)sanbruno Wrote:  I find it hard to believe a wedding ceremony and document suddenly makes you a better parent.

I don't know if it's a "suddenly" kind of thing. The psychology of a commitment, as I understand it, is something that plays out over long periods of time, but that doesn't make the effects any less real. For example, many of us have been in relationships where we held a woman at length that wanted to be serious while we did not. She'll go on fooling herself forever, telling herself she can accept that while simultaneously trying to change your mind. The situation gets more and more dysfunctional until finally it falls apart.

In a situation where you don't make a real commitment to the woman, I could see this effect always existing at some level in the relationship. And one of my big takeaways from the book was that having one foot in to test the water changes the way you approach a situation - maybe our ancestors learned that about human nature through experience and we should at least take pause before throwing it out.

If I recall correctly, the idea behind children having problems was that they can subconsciously sense the changed dynamic when a real commitment is lacking. And of course if parents are fighting, cheating, threatening to leave more, bonding less, abusing kids more, etc, the issues in that home are of course going to effect the psychology of the kids.

We are psychologically always on the fence when we aren't married - men know this, women know this. The kids feel it. That does make sense to me.

And another major aspect is that without a marriage, people tend to "slip into" cohabitation. They don't bother thinking about it at length and making a good decision because the gravity of the decision is removed - in the vast majority of cases, cohabitations just kinda happen. The "try each other out" mode, while seemingly rational, is a huge part of the problem and leads to us slowly getting into situations with big consequences that we may not have gotten into if we had to make a concrete decision.

Without skin in the game you're more likely to make careless decisions that bite you later.

Pretty good reflection of what I see in a lot of American relationships - people don't pick who they're with...they just start banging someone and it's comfortable and before you know it they're living together. And that would apply even if they got married later. "Well, we've been living together this long soooo..."

But yah even then the correlation vs causation aspect is of course up for debate.

I'd just have to reread the book to comment on how thoroughly it was addressed as I don't remember. Certainly all food for thought.

A lot of this makes sense, but I suspect it pertains to more traditional times. Modern marriage is a joke that everyone knows can be disassembled on a whim. Modern weddings have become nothing more than narcissism ejaculations for the bride. Things like both parents working, the decline in real working class wages, schools teaching bullshit and putting your kids around the influences of shitty kids with shitty parents, home price inflation, etc, all have much larger impacts on kids in my opinion. The working and middle class in America has the deck stacked against them trying to raise a family. Even someone that pours their heart out trying to be a decent parent could still absolutely struggle thanks to all the external bullshit our politics and economy throws at them. If both parents are working and just aren't around and/or too tired to properly tutor and instill values in their kids, they are going to be missing something regardless if their parents are married or not, and I'd argue that something is going to be far more detrimental than the lack of an official marriage commitment. To me, it's ignoring the elephant in the room, and that it is that the working and middle classes' ability to properly raise a family in the US has been attacked from both sides of the political spectrum for at least the last 20+ years.
09-16-2019 01:11 AM
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FullThrottleTX Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-15-2019 03:06 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  I've heard people say that cohabiting before marriage is a bad idea. I don't understand why that would be. It seems to me that if you live with someone for a certain time you can get to know things about them that would otherwise come as a surprise. But I may be wrong. If so I'd like to be enlightened.

What are the pros and cons of cohabiting, and of not doing so?

I'm writing this as I watch this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB1ttLswqOw

I'm an expert on this topic. I just am completely opposed to cohabitation before marriage now after having done it multiple times.

I've lived with 3 women each for more than a year, including a foreign chick.
One of them I eventually married, and divorced. We did live together for a year before marriage.
In my most recent relationship, I decided not to move in with her even though it was a lingering question. We dated for 2 years. Never had any sexual issues and things were still pretty spicy towards the end. Nonetheless, didn't want to marry her and I have a 2 year cutoff.

Cohabitation adds nothing to a relationship. It hastens the sexual boredom/familiarity and creates new issues before the engagement is resolved. Also makes it tougher to get out of the relationship since you've probably got a lease - and that cockblocked me very bad in one my breakups as I couldn't handle financially leaving, so I had to live with her broken up for some time. That was probably my most traumatic moment in the game, my friends can attest at how it changed me for the worse. Being single and standing on your own for as long as possible empowers you as a man.

When you get married, there is nothing to look forward to if you're already living together. It's just a status change. The people I know who are already living together before marriage, those guys aren't having sex often and are already bored. Why do that to yourself? If I could have intercepted them before they decided to move in with their girls, I probably would have saved their relationships (and lives).

You don't want to know everything there is to know about a person. Otherwise, you'd never get married. That kind of intel is very overrated.
Even just dating for longer you'll eventually spend a few nights together and if she's a bitch, you'll figure that out quick. You don't need to live together to know a person. The dynamic of living together before marriage is worse than knowledge/insight you gain.
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2019 09:19 AM by FullThrottleTX.)
09-16-2019 09:00 AM
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The Catalyst Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
As someone who is unfamiliar with relationships. Why would you not want to live with a girl you love and care about?
09-16-2019 10:11 AM
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JiggyLordJr Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
First off, where are you exactly? Cohabiting in the West can lead to a "common law" marriage, which means you're effectively screwed if one of you decides to end it. I will assume you have some common sense and are marrying outside of Western state control.

"Cohabitation" is a term used by atomized millenials to describe living with and fucking other atomized millenials. If you need to vet her, do so before you pull a ring on it. You can tell by:
- the state of her apartment (clean/messy?)
- her hobbies (cooking/partying?)
- her friends (wholesome/destructive?)
- other red flag scouting devices.

If she passes all these tests, I'd recommend the following:

Have most of your combined family tree living under the same roof. This might sound like hell at first thought, but humans have evolved as tribes, and you are no exception. Her/your parents will keep her hypergamy in check, and you'll have a vibrant social life from all the different family members. This is truly the winning setup.
09-16-2019 11:26 AM
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rapaz12 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
Voted no. I'm not in a rush to give up the serenity of living alone right now.
09-16-2019 11:41 AM
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FullThrottleTX Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-16-2019 10:11 AM)The Catalyst Wrote:  As someone who is unfamiliar with relationships. Why would you not want to live with a girl you love and care about?

Why would you?
An important principal of managing relationships is familiarity breeds contempt. Having separate lives helps give you content and different experiences, which keeps things spicy.
Living together means you're merging into one creature... sucks.

I don't even advocate living together when married if you can help it. Living together has always been more about economics than love.
09-16-2019 12:34 PM
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SilentOne Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-16-2019 01:11 AM)sanbruno Wrote:  A lot of this makes sense, but I suspect it pertains to more traditional times. Modern marriage is a joke that everyone knows can be disassembled on a whim. Modern weddings have become nothing more than narcissism ejaculations for the bride.

Well said. Just imagine your wife after 4 years together just decides she wants to hang out with her male companion at the movies alone or do some girls trip to las Vegas without your approval.

You can tell her "I'm your husband and you need to listen to me" and she says "no I'm going anyways". There's nothing you can do or say to her to make her listen.

The argument that you should have chosen a better girl is mute. People can change up on you giving the right opportunity. She may even get tired of staying home and being "your slave". She see all her friends going out and not her. The moment she wants to step out on you, there's nothing you can do to punish her. In fact you are the one who will get punished for her cheating on you Laugh
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2019 01:17 PM by SilentOne.)
09-16-2019 12:51 PM
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Garuda Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
Cohabitation weakens the relationship. It's popular now because it allows people to avoid the commitment and responsibility of marriage but reap the benefits of one. The couple eventually begins to see each other as "easy" and lose respect for their partner.

It also puts the relationship on an unstable foundation based on selfishness. It's important to be loved, happy, and respected in a relationship but is one just there to fulfill his/her short term wants without fulfilling the other person's needs?

The majority of children of cohabiting parents see the relationship break up. I can testify to this since my parents cohabited before marriage and had a nasty divorce when I was a teen.

Lastly, note that Maine, Nevada, Oregon and California have a legal status called "domestic partnership" that applies to cohabitation. Basically, you could get screwed out of property if some judge in those states decides that this is applicable in your relationship.
09-16-2019 01:36 PM
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Augustus_Principe Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
LOL at people saying "No, you have to cohabitate in order to have a successful relationship and future marriage!!!, I lived with my EX years ago..." I mean, if it were this great, successful thing to do, wouldn't you all be married with a couple children running around already? There would be no EXs in the picture.

I see this question in the same league as "Is 'dating' for x amount of years beneficial before getting married" But let me answer the question posed here. No, cohabitation is not a plan for success. As others have noted, there have already been studies proving this, and all of our own lives proving this as well. Perhaps people are suffering from cognitive dissonance, but the truth is, the vast majority of us have been in a failed relationship that involved cohabitation. We have to be truthful with ourselves. As men, we have to be rational and agree with the evidence presented to us in our own lives, as well as by study.

As I have posted elsewhere, we have to change the way we approach "dating". If you dont know if the girl you're talking to is cleanly, does housework, keeps her finances in order within the span of a few months, and you have to cohabitate in order to find these things out, you're not dating properly. Your mind is solely on fornication. If your mind is set on marriage from the start, I can guarantee you that you will know the answer to the questions posted here very quickly, You will find out through her, her parents, her family/friends etc. Basically, you will vet her in such a way, that you will already know for the most part, what to expect once you marry and live with her. The problem is we think of sex first, then the girls personality, THEN marriage as last. Of course we "dont find these things out" until years later... you werent in the right mindset on day one.
09-16-2019 04:02 PM
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mr_ks Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
The problem with these Men's views is that they are still blue-pilled in terms of relationships. Men should really only be having relationships with women where it involves children or will do in the near future. When you marry a woman it is to make children, get married, have kids, treat them well. Girlfriends, or Cohabitation is not really worth it for the 'pointless' sex you are having. Might seem like a good idea to younger men who feel they have something to prove. Still, I think men need to wake up and realize the whole image of a Girlfriend-Boyfriend relationship without kids is just a modern invention to cuck men.

This whole situation above is the creation of liberalism and contraception, where a man is tricked into becoming a man-servant to a woman for a bit of impotent sex. This has given women too much power over men and we need to wake up to the scam being perpetrated here.

I'm not saying men should not want casual relationships at all, but dont take it seriously of it does not involve children in some way, because it isnt.

Hold out for the real thing men, fatherhood, boyfriends are for gays.
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2019 04:26 PM by mr_ks.)
09-16-2019 04:20 PM
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SilentOne Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-16-2019 04:02 PM)Augustus_Principe Wrote:  The problem is we think of sex first, then the girls personality, THEN marriage as last. Of course we "dont find these things out" until years later... you werent in the right mindset on day one.

This here is the honest truth. Guys like to rationalize this and then put themselves in a bad situation.

In a sense, marriage is like a state run prostitution program being passed as a loving relationship. Divorce is a very lucrative profession to get into. With a failure rate nearing 70 percent, that's including 2nd and 3rd divorces mixed in, those odds are good that you will be making money off some unsuspecting chump.
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2019 06:15 PM by SilentOne.)
09-16-2019 05:52 PM
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quaker13 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
No matter how sweet and cheerful your s/o is the initial honeymoon period of cohabitation will be murderer by her trying to control you under the guise of safety.
You will here things like

Why are you going back out the house this time of night

Why does going to the gym take 3 hours

Didn't you just go out with your frat bros last weeken

You shouldn't eat so late...etc

All of this on top of the fact you can't bring strange back to your crib anymore

There is literally nothing that living with her will give you that you couldn't have discovered on your own through observation in a 2-3 year long relationship

TAKEN FROM ANOTHER BOARD
I've been living with GF for one year now in an alcove studio in MFH. I did not anticipate what *zero* alone time would do to my mental health. The only moments I get to myself are the 20 minutes in a black car from the office to the apt. It has sucked a lot of the romance, love illusion out of the relationship, and I think it's important to keep that illusion alive if you're not yet married so that your wedding day can actually be (or seem like) something special.
09-16-2019 08:38 PM
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Beyond Borders Away
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Post: #42
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
^ Of course having a live-in and settling down comes with sacrifices, but maybe that guy should take his nuts back.

If I want time alone, I close my office door. Or go chill out on the front balcony with a book and a cigar and tell her to give me some space if she doesn't get the point. Go visit friends or go for a long morning or evening walk. Or I jump on my motorbike and take off for the day if I really need some room to breathe.

Men without nuts in their relationships is an epidemic, for many reasons that have been discussed to death; that doesn't mean relationships should be avoided at all costs.

Again, obviously living with a woman will not be the same as living on your own. But I have a hard time understanding or respecting a guy who lets his woman nag him all the time, regulates his hours with buddies, and determines when he can eat. Does she pick his hobbies for him too?

This is a problem having to do with the nature of modern men as much as women.

Doesn't sound like he has a balcony or office. Living in a studio with a woman is not easy - I've been there plenty of times. But it sounds like that guy is too afraid to take a little elbow room in his relationship and has zero power over his chick.

Guys with more sack manage their girls a lot better than that, no matter how big their place is and whether they're married or not. So while I agree marriage is probably a smarter long-term life plan than cohabitation, that illustration is a bit sad.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2019 03:21 AM by Beyond Borders.)
09-17-2019 03:18 AM
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Vladimir Poontang Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
I hate the idea of turning in any direction and seeing the same face, day after day. And sharing a bed, night after night, not being able to turn without someone there being disturbed, or them disturbing me with their presence. Not being able to come and go as I please without the other person saying where are you going, where were you, why did you take so long, blah blah blah, having to explain myself all the time. Not being able to pace up and down and talk to myself, sorting out my thoughts.

I need my own space. I don't mind sharing a space, in fact I quite like it but only if I have one foot out the door. I like having someone else around but not if I'm trapped with them.

So the best way, if possible, is to live with a girl in a rented property, with her name only on the tenancy agreement, and my own bedroom, and for me to have my own place, rented, about 10 minutes away.

That way, if it ends, I won't own any property for anyone to take (at least in that country), and moving out will be almost effortless.

That's not how we do things in Russia, comrade.

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(This post was last modified: 09-17-2019 03:49 AM by Vladimir Poontang.)
09-17-2019 03:41 AM
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Dr. Howard Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-16-2019 04:20 PM)mr_ks Wrote:  The problem with these Men's views is that they are still blue-pilled in terms of relationships. Men should really only be having relationships with women where it involves children or will do in the near future. When you marry a woman it is to make children, get married, have kids, treat them well. Girlfriends, or Cohabitation is not really worth it for the 'pointless' sex you are having. Might seem like a good idea to younger men who feel they have something to prove. Still, I think men need to wake up and realize the whole image of a Girlfriend-Boyfriend relationship without kids is just a modern invention to cuck men.

This whole situation above is the creation of liberalism and contraception, where a man is tricked into becoming a man-servant to a woman for a bit of impotent sex. This has given women too much power over men and we need to wake up to the scam being perpetrated here.

I'm not saying men should not want casual relationships at all, but dont take it seriously of it does not involve children in some way, because it isnt.

Hold out for the real thing men, fatherhood, boyfriends are for gays.

Well said. The point of marriage is to have children, it doesn't make a woman any more faithful and doesn't create any legal protections besides immunity from testimony.

You get God's witness to your plan with your wife to build some children. If if they dont' start popping out right away, you at least have a plan to work towards with your wife.

Marriage without children is just a backstop for a woman to behave badly, ie. well now we are married I can stop trying because he can't leave me.

If you don't want kids, or aren't ready for kids, don't commit.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
09-17-2019 03:48 AM
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Post: #45
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-16-2019 12:30 AM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  
(09-15-2019 11:57 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  Don't shift the power to her and the state. Once you do, she can act out and there's nothing you can do about it. Nothing.

I wonder if the answer is an ecclesiastical marriage without any legal documents. It seems like the state and the Church have very different definitions and goals for marriage. I don't see the point in risking everything for a woman who may be dishonest in her reasons for getting married and her obligations within a marriage. One marriage can be dissolved with few complications (even Catholic tribunals rarely refuse an annulment), the other results in a financial disaster.

Of course the state will catch up eventually and beef up laws to declare it a common law marriage but that risk exists for cohabitation too. With any luck, your wife has proven herself proper by the time that happens anyway.

Generally, at least in the ancient Orthodox world, a couple would get a civil marriage and then simply have it blessed by the bishop in order to become a "Christian marriage." The idea of a Christian wedding ceremony, separately from a civil wedding ceremony, was the last sacrament added to Church tradition. Even though we have our own wedding sacrament, I think people are generally married according to civil law first.

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(This post was last modified: 09-17-2019 04:16 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
09-17-2019 04:16 AM
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Post: #46
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-15-2019 04:52 PM)RIslander Wrote:  This is probably some of the best pre-marriage relationship advice I've ever heard from good 'ol Bill Murray.




This is awful advice. What chick wouldn't be jazzed about a paid world vacation? Of course they're going to be to good to you as long as that gravy train is still chugging. How a girl behaves in the prolonged absence of outside excitement or stimulation is the much realer test.
09-17-2019 04:45 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
I think the travel advice is pretty good. A woman will not be able to control her emotions when things go bad (they always do). Missed flight? Delay? Hotel lost your reservation? Food poisoning? All these things happen. How she deals with them is what you are paying for.

The stats back up that its better to get married and move in. Most don't. I don't know many who followed this path, so time will tell if it works out for them or not.

In my own life I only ever lived with my fiance for a year before marriage. At one point she was between places and had to spend a month in a girls shared home. I was close to breaking down and letting her move in with me, but at that point I was still seeing other women and I did not want her moving in with me to be the deciding factor on which direction I went.

In hindsight, we should have waited to move in together, even though marriage was already on the table. But even in a little over a year, we still became used to fucking strictly for pleasure. I still feel that if we had moved in after marriage, our first place together would have been a den of sex and we would have had kids earlier - which has been one of my life's great regrets.

This is useless info, but I feel that knowing what I do now, I could propose marriage within 6 months of dating a woman and have just as high a chance of success as dating for two years and living together for two more.
09-17-2019 08:40 PM
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TooFineAPoint
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Post: #48
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-17-2019 08:40 PM)Laner Wrote:  A woman will not be able to control her emotions when things go bad (they always do). Missed flight? Delay? Hotel lost your reservation? Food poisoning? All these things happen. How she deals with them is what you are paying for.

This.

And make her pay for her own travel costs (flight, train, whatever). You pay for the accommodations and food.

If she nags you once on the trip, multiply by 100 and that is what every week living with her will be like.
09-17-2019 08:44 PM
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Feyoder
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Post: #49
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
Fuck that, you wanna come with me, we go Dutch, straight down the fucking middle. When I travel, I'm totally okay with sleeping in hostels I choose on price first and likelihood of getting bedbugs second. I'm alright with street food or eating a block of Tesco cheese in rain on the way back to the hostel. I don't drink or eat out much in my home life, so I kinda tend to follow that when I'm away too, unfortunately.

Just because we're together, that doesn't mean I'm gonna be paying for nice hotels and Michelin star every night. Half the lodging, and whatever you want to eat is on you honey.

I'm in Europe right now. I see all these dudes with these hot Euro girlfriends doing cute couple shit, and am I jealous? You damn right. All I got to look forward to is going home, and getting on tinder in a country full of fat bitches and maybe hope I get fraternize with one that's less of a pig. On the other hand, I've traveled with girls before and that'll wear you out too. They're always hungry and they're always tired. They wake up, they gotta get breakfast, then they gotta get ready. By the time they're ready, they're hungry again so it's lunch and by the time you can actually hit the street, it's like 3pm and what are you gonna do then? Meanwhile, I can get up, put on the same clothes I've worn three days, not shower, and not eating until I find a Lidl at noon or later doesn't bother me all that much. There's grass on both sides, but neither is greener, I guess I'm trying to say.
09-18-2019 06:01 AM
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JiggyLordJr
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Post: #50
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-18-2019 06:01 AM)Eazy_E Wrote:  Fuck that, you wanna come with me, we go Dutch, straight down the fucking middle. When I travel, I'm totally okay with sleeping in hostels I choose on price first and likelihood of getting bedbugs second. I'm alright with street food or eating a block of Tesco cheese in rain on the way back to the hostel. I don't drink or eat out much in my home life, so I kinda tend to follow that when I'm away too, unfortunately.

Just because we're together, that doesn't mean I'm gonna be paying for nice hotels and Michelin star every night. Half the lodging, and whatever you want to eat is on you honey.

I'm in Europe right now. I see all these dudes with these hot Euro girlfriends doing cute couple shit, and am I jealous? You damn right. All I got to look forward to is going home, and getting on tinder in a country full of fat bitches and maybe hope I get fraternize with one that's less of a pig. On the other hand, I've traveled with girls before and that'll wear you out too. They're always hungry and they're always tired. They wake up, they gotta get breakfast, then they gotta get ready. By the time they're ready, they're hungry again so it's lunch and by the time you can actually hit the street, it's like 3pm and what are you gonna do then? Meanwhile, I can get up, put on the same clothes I've worn three days, not shower, and not eating until I find a Lidl at noon or later doesn't bother me all that much. There's grass on both sides, but neither is greener, I guess I'm trying to say.

Feel you 100% on this. Traveling with women is a great way to get to know them, but it's also just a big pain in the ass. It's hard enough staying in one place with them - traveling takes it to a whole nother level. For starters:

- Silly photos hoots that take hours
- Make-up every time they head outside
- Disinclination to explore ("My feet hurt!")
- Preference for overpriced restaurants/cafés
- Disdain towards upermarkets and budget savers
- Itinerary that revolves around enhancing IG profile
- Random women shit ("I'm hungry!" But we just ate...)

The list goes on. Yes, you can learn a lot about women from traveling with them, but it tends to bring out the worst in them. The only women I would consider traveling with are the super feminine ones, but even then, I'd rather leave them home and go strike it out solo.

Is this really the best way to vet a potential wife?
09-18-2019 06:24 AM
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