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Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
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Eazy_E Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
Yeah man, the amount of picture taking is excessive. Everybody thinks they're an influencer these days. They all take the exact same photo. Same pose, same posture, looking away off in the distance, hair tussled. #traveling

I take more photos than a Japanese in Hollywood, but it's all of the landscape. I'm usually very unshaven, oily face, with wrinkled clothes. I don't need to bother somebody on the street to take a picture of that visage.

That's literally one of two pictures I have of myself in six weeks of being in Europe and that's in the 10-Z nuclear bunker in Brno and I just thought that's badass. Go thru the 10-Z of you're ever in Brno btw. Or stay there, part of it's a hostel.
09-18-2019 06:37 AM
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Polniy_Sostav Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
I don't really understand the question.
You only know a woman for real once you have lived under the same roof for at least a year.
The whole question is absurd. It s a definitive yes ; there is a need to cohabitate .
It doesn't mean you won't divorce though.
09-18-2019 06:51 AM
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Robert High Hawk Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
look at the divorce rate for people who lived together before getting married. Compare that to the divorce rate for those that don't. The rates (as of 5 years ago) are higher for those that DO. At best, there is a marginal difference, so the argument is moot.

And in fact, let's get a little crazy and consider all the break ups of those that do cohabitate AND those that cohabitate and then get married. That would blow the otherside out of the water.
09-18-2019 06:20 PM
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LatinaLova Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-18-2019 06:20 PM)Robert High Hawk Wrote:  look at the divorce rate for people who lived together before getting married. Compare that to the divorce rate for those that don't. The rates (as of 5 years ago) are higher for those that DO. At best, there is a marginal difference, so the argument is moot.

And in fact, let's get a little crazy and consider all the break ups of those that do cohabitate AND those that cohabitate and then get married. That would blow the otherside out of the water.

They divorce less because they have more conservative values (not because they don't cohabit). That's why they don't cohabit in the first place.
They may have strong (religious) values, social pressure making the divorce more challenging.
They may also have more kids and have them faster.

On the contrary, liberal people will be more prone to cohabitation and divorce. They see both things are more acceptable than the conservative folks.
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2019 07:13 PM by LatinaLova.)
09-18-2019 06:52 PM
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PainPositive Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-16-2019 04:02 PM)Augustus_Principe Wrote:  LOL at people saying "No, you have to cohabitate in order to have a successful relationship and future marriage!!!, I lived with my EX years ago..." I mean, if it were this great, successful thing to do, wouldn't you all be married with a couple children running around already? There would be no EXs in the picture.

I see this question in the same league as "Is 'dating' for x amount of years beneficial before getting married" But let me answer the question posed here. No, cohabitation is not a plan for success. As others have noted, there have already been studies proving this, and all of our own lives proving this as well. Perhaps people are suffering from cognitive dissonance, but the truth is, the vast majority of us have been in a failed relationship that involved cohabitation. We have to be truthful with ourselves. As men, we have to be rational and agree with the evidence presented to us in our own lives, as well as by study.

As I have posted elsewhere, we have to change the way we approach "dating". If you dont know if the girl you're talking to is cleanly, does housework, keeps her finances in order within the span of a few months, and you have to cohabitate in order to find these things out, you're not dating properly. Your mind is solely on fornication. If your mind is set on marriage from the start, I can guarantee you that you will know the answer to the questions posted here very quickly, You will find out through her, her parents, her family/friends etc. Basically, you will vet her in such a way, that you will already know for the most part, what to expect once you marry and live with her. The problem is we think of sex first, then the girls personality, THEN marriage as last. Of course we "dont find these things out" until years later... you werent in the right mindset on day one.

If it were better to cohabitate before marriage the research would support it. Couples who cohabitate before marriage don't have a lower divorce rate than others.

Quote:- Living together is considered to be more stressful than being married.

- Just over 50 percent of first cohabiting couples ever get married.

- In the United States and in the UK, couples who live together are at a greater risk for divorce than non-cohabiting couples.

- When evaluating relationships, couples who lived together before marriage tended to divorce early in their marriage.

- If their marriage lasts seven years, then their risk for divorce is the same as couples who didn't cohabit before marriage.

- Cohabiting couples had a separation rate five times that of married couples and a reconciliation rate that was one-third that of married couples.

- Cohabiting couples are more likely to experience infidelity.

- Compared to those planning to marry, those cohabiting have an overall poorer relationship quality. They tend to have more fighting and violence and less reported happiness.

- Compared with those who were married or unmarried and not cohabiting, cohabiting women and men were more likely to have no high school diploma or GED.

- Cohabiting couples earn less money and are less wealthy than their married peers later in life.

- Compared to married individuals, those cohabiting have higher levels of depression and substance abuse.

https://www.thespruce.com/cohabitation-f...cs-2302236

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
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09-19-2019 10:30 AM
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Post: #56
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
It depends... How big are her titties?

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09-19-2019 10:51 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-18-2019 06:52 PM)LatinaLova Wrote:  
(09-18-2019 06:20 PM)Robert High Hawk Wrote:  look at the divorce rate for people who lived together before getting married. Compare that to the divorce rate for those that don't. The rates (as of 5 years ago) are higher for those that DO. At best, there is a marginal difference, so the argument is moot.

And in fact, let's get a little crazy and consider all the break ups of those that do cohabitate AND those that cohabitate and then get married. That would blow the otherside out of the water.

They divorce less because they have more conservative values (not because they don't cohabit). That's why they don't cohabit in the first place.
They may have strong (religious) values, social pressure making the divorce more challenging.
They may also have more kids and have them faster.

On the contrary, liberal people will be more prone to cohabitation and divorce. They see both things are more acceptable than the conservative folks.

This.

If you come from a traditional community then do things the traditional way. You're clearly better off.

But if you don't come from a traditional community then I suggest cohabitation is a good way to find out what kind of a person you're really dealing with.

Traditional couples marrying and moving in together place the presumption on working out differences. With non-traditional couples the presumption is on weeding out unsuitable marriage candidates before hopefully tying the knot with someone viable. Given the typical 2-years-to-marriage-3-years-to-pregnancy biological-window rule you'll generally seek to move in with a possible candidate for marriage after 6 months to a year of being in a monogamous relationship with them, leaving a year to 18 months before proposing.

Sometimes cohabitation escalates over time with her progressively spending more nights at your house and leaving more of her stuff there. If she starts making herself useful immediately then she's on the up. If she just mooches then tell her "I need space its not you its me I'm married to the sea".

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2019 11:04 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
09-19-2019 11:02 AM
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quaker13 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
Why would any man in his right mind want to cut his bachelorhood short to live a woman he's not even married or engaged to? You guys sound insanely codependent. What are you hoping to discover? A meth or coke habit? Slovenly living conditions? Seriously, what are you looking to realize that a man with game and experience couldn't discover in the same time frame by living separately over the course of 2-3 years?
09-19-2019 12:21 PM
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TooFineAPoint Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-18-2019 06:24 AM)JiggyLordJr Wrote:  
(09-18-2019 06:01 AM)Eazy_E Wrote:  Fuck that, you wanna come with me, we go Dutch, straight down the fucking middle. When I travel, I'm totally okay with sleeping in hostels I choose on price first and likelihood of getting bedbugs second. I'm alright with street food or eating a block of Tesco cheese in rain on the way back to the hostel. I don't drink or eat out much in my home life, so I kinda tend to follow that when I'm away too, unfortunately.

Just because we're together, that doesn't mean I'm gonna be paying for nice hotels and Michelin star every night. Half the lodging, and whatever you want to eat is on you honey.

I'm in Europe right now. I see all these dudes with these hot Euro girlfriends doing cute couple shit, and am I jealous? You damn right. All I got to look forward to is going home, and getting on tinder in a country full of fat bitches and maybe hope I get fraternize with one that's less of a pig. On the other hand, I've traveled with girls before and that'll wear you out too. They're always hungry and they're always tired. They wake up, they gotta get breakfast, then they gotta get ready. By the time they're ready, they're hungry again so it's lunch and by the time you can actually hit the street, it's like 3pm and what are you gonna do then? Meanwhile, I can get up, put on the same clothes I've worn three days, not shower, and not eating until I find a Lidl at noon or later doesn't bother me all that much. There's grass on both sides, but neither is greener, I guess I'm trying to say.

Feel you 100% on this. Traveling with women is a great way to get to know them, but it's also just a big pain in the ass. It's hard enough staying in one place with them - traveling takes it to a whole nother level. For starters:

- Silly photos hoots that take hours
- Make-up every time they head outside
- Disinclination to explore ("My feet hurt!")
- Preference for overpriced restaurants/cafés
- Disdain towards upermarkets and budget savers
- Itinerary that revolves around enhancing IG profile
- Random women shit ("I'm hungry!" But we just ate...)

The list goes on. Yes, you can learn a lot about women from traveling with them, but it tends to bring out the worst in them. The only women I would consider traveling with are the super feminine ones, but even then, I'd rather leave them home and go strike it out solo.

Is this really the best way to vet a potential wife?

It's not the best, it's one of many things you could try.

By your list above, it sounds like you choose your mates poorly and you don't exercise much authority in the relationship. I've traveled with a handful of young women and the only issue from your list I've run into is that their feet hurt walking in heels on the cobblestone because they wanted to look good for a special night out.

I also don't get this pride in being a cheapskate, staying in shit places, and eating bland supermarket food while traveling. Half of the reason I travel to Europe (Italy, Portugal, France) is to experience the food and culture.

There are tourist traps on both ends of the cost spectrum, but somewhere near the middle are wonderful family-run or quaint places where you get to chat with the owner (chef or landlord) and have an amazing experience. Who cares if you pay for the chick's dinner? It's not a first date. Presumably you're taking them on a trip because you are serious and you enjoy their company.
09-19-2019 01:51 PM
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mr_ks Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-19-2019 12:21 PM)quaker13 Wrote:  Why would any man in his right mind want to cut his bachelorhood short to live a woman he's not even married or engaged to? You guys sound insanely codependent. What are you hoping to discover? A meth or coke habit? Slovenly living conditions? Seriously, what are you looking to realize that a man with game and experience couldn't discover in the same time frame by living separately over the course of 2-3 years?

Exactly. In my opinion the most important thing about woman is whether you and her can have healthy and high-quality offspring. Therefore, you should look for good qualities in a partner in her physical, mental and social aspects. You dont need to live with someone to know whether she is a good mate choice for you.

It's a good idea to give each other space also, perhaps even another bedroom/office for you if possible. Then you are not stuck too close to someone to let little things bother you, or her.
09-19-2019 03:21 PM
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Post: #61
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-19-2019 10:30 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  If it were better to cohabitate before marriage the research would support it.

Hmmm... I don't think that's necessarily true. Surely it matters what you and your girl are like, as opposed to what the plebs/unwashed masses/NPCs are like.
09-19-2019 04:58 PM
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Post: #62
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-19-2019 12:21 PM)quaker13 Wrote:  Why would any man in his right mind want to cut his bachelorhood short to live a woman he's not even married or engaged to? You guys sound insanely codependent. What are you hoping to discover? A meth or coke habit? Slovenly living conditions? Seriously, what are you looking to realize that a man with game and experience couldn't discover in the same time frame by living separately over the course of 2-3 years?

There are interpersonal dynamics which only reveal themselves during cohabitation. Some women that are normally not bothered by you spending time with friends can start getting snarky when you leave your communal home to be with other people. They can betray a dominant streak that drives them to control living arrangements or start roping family members into your life that turn out to be extremely annoying.

There is a wealth of information you can learn about a woman by living with her that will never be readily apparent to you while living apart, no matter how good you think your game is. Some women excel and running short bursts of perfection in behavior during dating only to reveal themselves as train wrecks after marriage. Cohabitation denies them the ability to show their best rather than their average because over time they will simply not be able to maintain a charade like that.

The men that dramatically fear cohabitation are generally low-class types who balk at being held to a basic human standard of interaction. Guys that promise or infer monogamy without following through. Guys who want to live like slobs.

If you're screening well, living well and not telling lies then cohabitation is little more than an extended job interview for a life-long maid and blowjob machine.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2019 01:49 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
09-20-2019 01:44 AM
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Post: #63
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-19-2019 12:21 PM)quaker13 Wrote:  Why would any man in his right mind want to cut his bachelorhood short to live a woman he's not even married or engaged to? You guys sound insanely codependent. What are you hoping to discover? A meth or coke habit? Slovenly living conditions? Seriously, what are you looking to realize that a man with game and experience couldn't discover in the same time frame by living separately over the course of 2-3 years?

Both parties can easily convey an overly positive image of themselves for a very long time, hide bad habits, etc. if communication is limited to a few hours o face-to-face time per week + sporadic calls and texts. Nearly everyone does it to some degree. It's far more difficult to keep this front up when you live together, even for just a few weeks - I would want to see first hand what the answers to these questions are before I wife someone:

-Does she actually keep her home clean all the time, or does she just hide the dishes and sweep everything under the rug 10 minutes before you come over?

-Does she actually know how to cook, and does she do it regularly? Or does she make one of three recipes she actually knows when you come over for dinner, and order herself Taco Bell via UberEats the rest of time?

-How does she REALLY spend her free time on a casual work/school night, when she isn't having a meetup or date with you? Is she drinking significant amounts of wine EVERY night, or just on dates with you? Is she just a "once-in-a-blue-moon social smoker," or is she smoking throughout the day?

-How does she REALLY treat her pets when you aren't over for a meetup/date?

-How is her ACTUAL relationship with her family and friends?

-Does she ACTUALLY exercise regularly like she says? Or is she mostly relying on decent genetics?

-Is she short on cash this month because of unfortunate-but-very-temporary circumstances, or because she has terrible spending habits and/or maxed out credit cards?

-Does she take big smelly shits with the door open?

When they are motivated, women are absolute professionals at presenting themselves well to the outside world. I think much more so than men.
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2019 11:31 AM by Eddie Winslow.)
09-20-2019 11:13 AM
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quaker13 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-20-2019 11:13 AM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  
(09-19-2019 12:21 PM)quaker13 Wrote:  Why would any man in his right mind want to cut his bachelorhood short to live a woman he's not even married or engaged to? You guys sound insanely codependent. What are you hoping to discover? A meth or coke habit? Slovenly living conditions? Seriously, what are you looking to realize that a man with game and experience couldn't discover in the same time frame by living separately over the course of 2-3 years?

Both parties can easily convey an overly positive image of themselves for a very long time, hide bad habits, etc. if communication is limited to a few hours o face-to-face time per week + sporadic calls and texts. Nearly everyone does it to some degree. It's far more difficult to keep this front up when you live together, even for just a few weeks - I would want to see first hand what the answers to these questions are before I wife someone:

-Does she actually keep her home clean all the time, or does she just hide the dishes and sweep everything under the rug 10 minutes before you come over?

-Does she actually know how to cook, and does she do it regularly? Or does she make one of three recipes she actually knows when you come over for dinner, and order herself Taco Bell via UberEats the rest of time?

-How does she REALLY spend her free time on a casual work/school night, when she isn't having a meetup or date with you? Is she drinking significant amounts of wine EVERY night, or just on dates with you? Is she just a "once-in-a-blue-moon social smoker," or is she smoking throughout the day?

-How does she REALLY treat her pets when you aren't over for a meetup/date?

-How is her ACTUAL relationship with her family and friends?

-Does she ACTUALLY exercise regularly like she says? Or is she mostly relying on decent genetics?

-Is she short on cash this month because of unfortunate-but-very-temporary circumstances, or because she has terrible spending habits and/or maxed out credit cards?

-Does she take big smelly shits with the door open?

When they are motivated, women are absolute professionals at presenting themselves well to the outside world. I think much more so than men.

All of these things in my view are detectable over the course of a normal 2-3 year relationship. Decent human beings are pretty much decent all around, if a man has reservations he would have them under either circumstance.
09-20-2019 02:37 PM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
There is no such thing as a "normal" 2 year relationship that doesn't involve marriage and a "normal" 3 year relationship that doesn't involve pregnancy.

These are post-modern constructs of delayed adulthood. Any woman who takes D from a man for 3 years without a ring has disqualified herself on that basis alone.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
09-20-2019 10:30 PM
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Post: #66
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
So yeah, in the West if you don’t come from a conservative background then cohabitation is a plus.

I don’t come from a conservative background and see cohabitating with a girl to be a step before determining whether or not I’ll put a ring on it.

God knows this forum has scared me shitless of the idea of marriage anyway.
09-22-2019 03:30 AM
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Post: #67
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
Quote:- Silly photos hoots that take hours
- Make-up every time they head outside
- Disinclination to explore ("My feet hurt!")
- Preference for overpriced restaurants/cafés
- Disdain towards upermarkets and budget savers
- Itinerary that revolves around enhancing IG profile
- Random women shit ("I'm hungry!" But we just ate...)

This is basically every weekend with a girlfriend/wife.
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2019 02:03 AM by sanbruno.)
09-25-2019 02:03 AM
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Post: #68
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
I'm surprised that people have voted more or less 50/50 on this pretty consistently since the thread started.

That's not how we do things in Russia, comrade.

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(This post was last modified: 09-25-2019 07:18 PM by Vladimir Poontang.)
09-25-2019 07:17 PM
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Post: #69
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(09-25-2019 07:17 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  I'm surprised that people have voted more or less 50/50 on this pretty consistently since the thread started.

I think the pro-cohabbers bros are lying to themselves and are likely not as social as the anti-cohabbers. I'm an anti-cohabber and for the life of me I simply can not fathom what the hell a man is looking for via cohabbing that he couldn't see otherwise.
09-25-2019 09:42 PM
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Post: #70
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
I would never ever do it. Love my LTR but after she has been staying with me for a week I'm ready to give her the boot, I need my space and alone time or I'm apt to insane. I love my solitude but I get that most people, especially women can't handle it. I can't imagine coming home from a long day at work or something and having to put up with another person's endless chatter. No thanks.

I can see why some BP guys would do it, you've got your chick, you're pretty much attaching your cart to this horse for good barring something crazy happening, and it saves money in some cases. But if you really need to "vet" or "get to know a chick":
-stay at her place for a weekend
-go on a week-long trip with her
-date her for a couple of years. No no need to sign a lease with her or anything
(This post was last modified: 09-26-2019 08:17 AM by BlastbeatCasanova.)
09-26-2019 08:17 AM
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Post: #71
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
Very relevant to the thread for God pillers. The preaching clip has a link to the full sermon if you're interested.






Dreams are like horses; they run wild on the earth. Catch one and ride it. Throw a leg over and ride it for all its worth.
Psalm 25:7
https://youtu.be/vHVoMCH10Wk
09-28-2019 08:52 AM
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Post: #72
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
Never cohabitate.

If you don't understand why, you aren't fit to marry, and you have zero understanding of what marriage is.
10-01-2019 02:20 PM
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RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
My view is in line with what a number of people have said, some indirectly.

It is some zen, koan, Jedi mind trick stuff to consider but, if you think you should move in together, and she thinks you should move in together then you should move in together, but you are screwed. The very culture and mindset that would lead you to cohabit are the same things that will increase your likelihood of ultimately divorcing. Not testing the waters first when you figure you should will only exacerbate that IMHO. On the flip side, couples that do not cohabit have lower divorce rates because of social, psychological, moral, and religious systems and structures that lead to lower divorce rates anyways. For them to shack up before marriage probably wouldn't increase the chance of divorce but it would present them with a number of problems in dealing with their family and community at the time and perhaps beyond.

It's sort of like the question of sex before marriage. There is a correlation between not doing so and marriage stability, but that is the result of similar factors that lead to that choice. Simply not having sex with someone before you marry them will not reduce the chance of divorce unless you are both on the same wavelength that itself makes divorce less likely and also makes celibacy until marriage a workable option. (I am thinking of that guy from the Bachelorette; that was over before it really began.)

This is correlation without causation due to third, independent causes.

The only way around it is to give your heart, mind and soul an enema to reorient yourself, and then find a woman who you can court - not just "date" but court - without moving in together while deciding whether or not to marry. (No LDRs because that messes things up.) A good indication that you are doing it right is if friends, family, and the social circles (yours and hers) are encouraging you and affirming that you are making the right decision to both a) get married and b) not live together before that.

As with many question, the answer as to whether you should live together before marriage is "it depends".
10-02-2019 06:41 AM
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons
(10-02-2019 06:41 AM)66Scorpio Wrote:  My view is in line with what a number of people have said, some indirectly.

It is some zen, koan, Jedi mind trick stuff to consider but, if you think you should move in together, and she thinks you should move in together then you should move in together, but you are screwed. The very culture and mindset that would lead you to cohabit are the same things that will increase your likelihood of ultimately divorcing. Not testing the waters first when you figure you should will only exacerbate that IMHO. On the flip side, couples that do not cohabit have lower divorce rates because of social, psychological, moral, and religious systems and structures that lead to lower divorce rates anyways. For them to shack up before marriage probably wouldn't increase the chance of divorce but it would present them with a number of problems in dealing with their family and community at the time and perhaps beyond.

It's sort of like the question of sex before marriage. There is a correlation between not doing so and marriage stability, but that is the result of similar factors that lead to that choice. Simply not having sex with someone before you marry them will not reduce the chance of divorce unless you are both on the same wavelength that itself makes divorce less likely and also makes celibacy until marriage a workable option. (I am thinking of that guy from the Bachelorette; that was over before it really began.)

The primary factor is "doing married people stuff" while not married. And there is a term for that:

Instant Gratification or "InstaGra(m)"

You like the girl and find her really hot? Great, now get an insta-marriage and insta-consummate*) it.

You like the guy and want commitment? Great, you stealth-move-in with him for insta-cohabitation.

What do people experience, who don't get all the benefits of marriage without walking down the aisle first and have to wait for it?

Delayed Gratification.

People who practice the latter are more successful with anything in life, including their marriages.

It's a matter of upbringing. And there is nothing better than denying instant gratification to weed out the unfit candidates. You don't have to do an extensive background check.

*) better term than "holding hands".
10-02-2019 07:17 AM
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