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Plant-Based Diets?
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
End-stage veganism looks more like that - many after becoming fruitarians move to some tropical country to get the fruit. Also they are always cold and need a warm country. And even there they find out that fruit is only available seasonally and needs to be imported from different places. The shaggy beard and hair is also normal for vegans.

   

I think I need to start a different master-thread, because we have to clobber our optimal food/diet on our own - just avoid the most crappy stuff. For most of us that would be sufficient - just avoid the biggest crap while being aware of some basics.

Bobby from Bobby's perspective is a former bodybuilder who turned vegan and who suffered tremendously over the years as a vegan even while promoting it out of "ethics". He is now a carnivore and healed all his strange conditions within weeks of eating fish and meat.

[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]

He also moved to a jungle nation and had a shaggy beard while attempting to work out. Eng-stage he could not even work out.

As I mentioned before - I witnessed this in my vicinity among people who attempted this diet themselves. Some can get severe mental diseases when even attempting vegeterians - for example lactose-intolerant vegeterians invite disaster in their lives.
(This post was last modified: 11-23-2019 04:00 AM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
11-23-2019 04:00 AM
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jcardial Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
           

There will always be people with poor nutritional education, bad genetics or hippy lifestyle induced laziness who can't execute a plant based diet well (among many other things). I am not sure you can get much tougher or more durable than Nate Diaz.

Simeon, you keep saying plant based is "globohomo" then cite a youtuber who weighs 140 pounds and openly admits to benching 65-85 pounds (less than many vegan girls). He also wears heavy makeup like one would expect a health guru charlatan to do.
11-23-2019 09:42 PM
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Post: #103
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
I mentioned an issue I have with vegans and “doing it wrong” the other day, but I didn’t go into much detail except to say it’s like leftists who think the problem with socialism is that it has always failed because it was done wrong.

As someone who has actually done a complete transformation in terms of fitness and weight loss, I’m reasonably qualified to offer my opinions.

You can read about my progress here. I haven’t updated since January, but I did hit my targets over the summer and have since picked up 5-7lbs as my performance dropped off.

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-71589.html

Anyway. Vegans love to concoct ideal vegan diets. Fruitarian, raw fruitarian, raw til 4, etc. There are countless books on how to do vegan right so you don’t feel like shit, so you don’t have chronic diarrhea, so your hair doesn’t fall out, etc. The reason all of these variants exist is clearly due to the number of vegans who struggle with deteriorating health. Every vegan hustler on youtube and instagram has a formula to do Veganism “the right way” (until they wash out 6 months later).

So what is the right way? Is there such a thing as a vegan superfood? And I define superfood as any food item that is as close to nutritionally complete as possible. So complete that you can not only live on it indefinitely but thrive. Because on the animal based side of the spectrum there are several.

One thing I’m really tired of across the entire spectrum of eating from malnourished raw fruitarians knocking on death’s door to hyper autistic carnivores like Frank tufano is this preoccupation with gut health and healing/food sensitivity. I’m early 40s. I smoked for 25 years. I’m 10-20 years older than a typical social media food influencer, and I have never experienced the purported health issues these people moan about incessantly. Either die already or STFU and get on with living. A surgeon once told me that even after a major abdominal surgery, most people are 90% healed internally within 10-15 days of the procedure. These people talking about taking months or years for gut healing are out of their minds.
11-24-2019 12:53 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
I see that the mental rot has spread here too with vegan propaganda indoctrination. Yes - it's full globohomo despite your shitty idiotic claims. Diaz isn't even vegan, but eats fish and lost the next fight with Conor McGregor. Joe Rogan who knows the world better than those indoctrinated cult-members tells the story of the fight. And your idiotic best plan is to attack short Italian guys who are by the way muscular and ripped? https://youtu.be/-4EPNBLJbFE

And what the fuck would that even prove? No one says that the carnivore diet is right for everyone - for some it may be, but most like Shawn Baker MD just prefer if people eat more good animal-based products. There is far less dogma from the other side than it appears. If that ratio is 20% animal-based, then fine, if it's 70%, then it's your choice too. In both cases you will likely be fine. Though for some people with massive immune system condidtions 100% helps them a lot.

It's rather the vegans who are insane trying to prove that their religious cultish diet is the best thing and best if all meat-eaters were killed (Freelee) or that meat was banned world-wide.

Such bullshit.... Responding to it is like with the 7th day adventists who are vegeterian/vegan cultists who wanted people to shift to that diet in order to decrease carnal desires.

Yes - every long-term vegan out there has a shit-ton of health issues. No one is doing it right, you need blood-tests, massive supplements and if it's still not working, then you blame it on detoxing and animal-product consumption even if that period is 5 years away. After 5 years you are still detoxing! Vegans like Gojiman created even a business-model where he takes in shit-samples of vegans in order to help them with their conditions. But obviously it's not veganism that is at fault.
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2019 05:18 AM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
11-24-2019 05:13 AM
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Thomas Jackson Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
That Tufano guy looks super gay but that doesnt change the fact veganism is misguided at best, and retarded at worst. Meat/Omega 3s/Protein were some of the main drivers of human evolution we really do need it.
11-24-2019 10:44 AM
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Zevs Offline
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Post: #106
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
Don't try and teach me about oysters and other foods, I and I don't particularly care what you think, I consider myself vegan even if my diet is 95% plant based and the other percentage fish and oysters.
11-24-2019 04:31 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
Heh - congrats - then the Standard American diet is 80-85% vegan - not so far away frankly. Big Mac Menu is 85% vegan.

It does not matter what I think, but the religion of veganism excludes every little bit of animal products. The cult of veganism would cast you out by default. I don't care either way.

I know that vegans like to mix the test results with vegetarians. Oysters would not even meet strict vegeterian criteria, rather pescetarian or omnivore. The 5% make all the difference long-term.

Plant-based is another new term which does not mean much. What is a diet consistant of 51% plant and 49% full meat? It's closer to natural diets for millennia. Plant-based is Standard American with 85% calories coming from lots of plants - sugars, carbs and plant oils.
11-24-2019 04:41 PM
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Zevs Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
I don't really care what other vegans or vegetarians think . I don't have sugar I don't eat junk food like KFC or Burger King or McDonalds. I may have a chocolate bar, once a blue moon and I am 95 kilograms at 5"11 and still consider myself fat. I visit the gym 3 times a week. I cook at home and never eat out. My friends and family think I am weird but the plant based diet has helped my osteo arthritis. My asthma is gone and I have been told I look younger. I am 52. I don't preach to others and I don't care if people eat meat or even bugs. I am staying on this plant based diet cause it has been good for my health.
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2019 10:23 PM by Zevs.)
11-24-2019 10:20 PM
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RawGod Offline
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Post: #109
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(11-24-2019 04:31 PM)Zevs Wrote:  Don't try and teach me about oysters and other foods, I and I don't particularly care what you think, I consider myself vegan even if my diet is 95% plant based and the other percentage fish and oysters.

So you eat a pescetarian diet but call it vegan because...reasons. Then you expect to be taken seriously in a reasoned discussion about optimum human diet? You think you can dispel stereotypes about anti-meat types being irrational virtue signallers? Are you a woman?

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11-24-2019 10:43 PM
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jcardial Offline
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Post: #110
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(11-24-2019 04:41 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  Heh - congrats - then the Standard American diet is 80-85% vegan - not so far away frankly. Big Mac Menu is 85% vegan.

It does not matter what I think, but the religion of veganism excludes every little bit of animal products. The cult of veganism would cast you out by default. I don't care either way.

I know that vegans like to mix the test results with vegetarians. Oysters would not even meet strict vegeterian criteria, rather pescetarian or omnivore. The 5% make all the difference long-term.

Plant-based is another new term which does not mean much. What is a diet consistant of 51% plant and 49% full meat? It's closer to natural diets for millennia. Plant-based is Standard American with 85% calories coming from lots of plants - sugars, carbs and plant oils.

The first definition of the word vegan is only in the dietary sense. I have never witnessed a vegan in person on a high horse and calling out what anyone is wearing or eating. Maybe stop hanging out in L.A. and burning man if this is an issue for you.

Less than 1% of people are actually vegan which means even if you are interacting with hundreds of people it would be rare to encounter a vegan let alone one bold enough to call you out. Most of the outrage/irritation clearly comes from the Youtube echo chamber where people act cartoonishly extreme for the sole purpose of drumming up hate and reaction video virality. It's hilarious that people think the absolute extremes are representative of the general population.

The standard American diet:
"According to U.S. Department of Agriculture estimates, 32 percent of our calories comes from animal foods, 57 percent from processed plant foods, and only 11 percent from whole grains, beans, fruits, vegetables, and nuts."

Most of the people endorsing veganism for health are advocating whole plant foods, not corn syrup and white bread. I don't get why you keep belaboring these irrelevant points.
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2019 11:41 PM by jcardial.)
11-24-2019 11:32 PM
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Tail Gunner Offline
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Post: #111
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(11-24-2019 11:32 PM)jcardial Wrote:  The standard American diet:
"According to U.S. Department of Agriculture estimates, 32 percent of our calories comes from animal foods, 57 percent from processed plant foods, and only 11 percent from whole grains, beans, fruits, vegetables, and nuts."

Most of the people endorsing veganism for health are advocating whole plant foods, not corn syrup and white bread. I don't get why you keep belaboring these irrelevant points.

I agree. Simeon has presented some good information, but his claim that "the Standard American diet is 80-85% vegan; Big Mac Menu is 85% vegan" is really misleading. More like 85% starch and sugar processed crap.

There are some vegans that eat 50% cakes and cookies. This is not much better than the than the Standard American Diet. They will have serious future health problems. The ones that eat mostly fruits and vegetables, however, eat far healthier than the Standard American Diet for sure.

I am not saying that such a vegan diet is the optimum diet, by any means. People need to eat some high quality meat and oil. But saying that "the Standard American diet is 80-85% vegan" is highly misleading.
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2019 12:08 AM by Tail Gunner.)
11-25-2019 12:07 AM
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jcardial Offline
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Post: #112
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(11-24-2019 12:53 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  I mentioned an issue I have with vegans and “doing it wrong” the other day, but I didn’t go into much detail except to say it’s like leftists who think the problem with socialism is that it has always failed because it was done wrong.

As someone who has actually done a complete transformation in terms of fitness and weight loss, I’m reasonably qualified to offer my opinions.

You can read about my progress here. I haven’t updated since January, but I did hit my targets over the summer and have since picked up 5-7lbs as my performance dropped off.

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-71589.html

Anyway. Vegans love to concoct ideal vegan diets. Fruitarian, raw fruitarian, raw til 4, etc. There are countless books on how to do vegan right so you don’t feel like shit, so you don’t have chronic diarrhea, so your hair doesn’t fall out, etc. The reason all of these variants exist is clearly due to the number of vegans who struggle with deteriorating health. Every vegan hustler on youtube and instagram has a formula to do Veganism “the right way” (until they wash out 6 months later).

So what is the right way? Is there such a thing as a vegan superfood? And I define superfood as any food item that is as close to nutritionally complete as possible. So complete that you can not only live on it indefinitely but thrive. Because on the animal based side of the spectrum there are several.

One thing I’m really tired of across the entire spectrum of eating from malnourished raw fruitarians knocking on death’s door to hyper autistic carnivores like Frank tufano is this preoccupation with gut health and healing/food sensitivity. I’m early 40s. I smoked for 25 years. I’m 10-20 years older than a typical social media food influencer, and I have never experienced the purported health issues these people moan about incessantly. Either die already or STFU and get on with living. A surgeon once told me that even after a major abdominal surgery, most people are 90% healed internally within 10-15 days of the procedure. These people talking about taking months or years for gut healing are out of their minds.

The massively confounding variable is that the failure rate of any diet is incredibly high and usually on the weeks to a few months scale if it lasts that long. Not many people have the will power to sustain keto, carnivore, vegan, paleo or xyz restrictive diet for any appreciable amount of time, regardless of how healthy or unhealthy it might be for them.

Veganism has moral baggage for some people which makes it much more likely to elicit extra fluffed up "serious" health related excuses to externalize the blame for their failures and avoid the guilt (and in many cases grief from their followers). I imagine an overwhelming majority of the time any diet fails because it is just human nature to gravitate back towards the path of least resistance.
11-25-2019 12:33 AM
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porscheguy Offline
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Post: #113
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
“Starch and sugar processed crap” are vegan. The vegan religion doesn’t care where the food comes from as long as there are no animals involved. If 85% of Big Mac ingredients adhere to the vegan standard of animal free, then it’s 85% vegan.

I wouldn’t go pointing too many fingers at processes food vegans. Some of the most virulent whole food vegans are looking pretty rough. Check out the deterioration at freelee. Even better check out Raw Bliss. This guy is 23/24 years old and lives in a third world jungle foraging for fruit. His reproductive system shut down due to malnutrition and his reaction is that he’s transcended to some higher spiritual plane. Like Frank tufano said, the guy looks like a skeleton you’d fight in dungeons and dragons.

I will ask again since I didn’t get an answer last time. Name one vegan superfood. Name one vegan food item that you can eat and thrive on indefinitely.
11-25-2019 01:06 AM
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Tail Gunner Offline
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Post: #114
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(11-25-2019 01:06 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  I will ask again since I didn’t get an answer last time. Name one vegan superfood. Name one vegan food item that you can eat and thrive on indefinitely.

Name any single food on which you can stay healthy. It does not exist. Life is about balance. Dr. Mercola is one of the biggest proponents of the Keto diet and he makes very clear that it is intended only as a cyclical therapeutic diet. Honestly, a rotating diet of vegan, Keto, Paleo, Mediterranean, etc. would not be a bad idea.
11-25-2019 01:49 AM
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Post: #115
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
Theres a family that has thrived on ribeyes and spring water alone for decades. I dont remember the name but they look pretty damn healthy.

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11-25-2019 03:51 AM
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Post: #116
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(11-25-2019 01:49 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(11-25-2019 01:06 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  I will ask again since I didn’t get an answer last time. Name one vegan superfood. Name one vegan food item that you can eat and thrive on indefinitely.

Name any single food on which you can stay healthy. It does not exist. Life is about balance. Dr. Mercola is one of the biggest proponents of the Keto diet and he makes very clear that it is intended only as a cyclical therapeutic diet. Honestly, a rotating diet of vegan, Keto, Paleo, Mediterranean, etc. would not be a bad idea.

You could eat nothing but beef and watch your health get better compared to what it was on a mixed diet.
11-25-2019 04:33 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #117
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(11-25-2019 12:07 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(11-24-2019 11:32 PM)jcardial Wrote:  The standard American diet:
"According to U.S. Department of Agriculture estimates, 32 percent of our calories comes from animal foods, 57 percent from processed plant foods, and only 11 percent from whole grains, beans, fruits, vegetables, and nuts."

Most of the people endorsing veganism for health are advocating whole plant foods, not corn syrup and white bread. I don't get why you keep belaboring these irrelevant points.

I agree. Simeon has presented some good information, but his claim that "the Standard American diet is 80-85% vegan; Big Mac Menu is 85% vegan" is really misleading. More like 85% starch and sugar processed crap.

There are some vegans that eat 50% cakes and cookies. This is not much better than the than the Standard American Diet. They will have serious future health problems. The ones that eat mostly fruits and vegetables, however, eat far healthier than the Standard American Diet for sure.

I am not saying that such a vegan diet is the optimum diet, by any means. People need to eat some high quality meat and oil. But saying that "the Standard American diet is 80-85% vegan" is highly misleading.

The numbers are wrong and must have come from the 1980s.

It's 75-85% plant-based when you count for plant oils and sugar which are plants.

Most people have no idea where the calories come from. KFC and McDonald's is mostly plant-based - even the salads at Mcdonald's are calorie-rich due to the plant-oil rich oil.

32% would be already a quite helthy diet from someone who only ate steak, cooked potatoes and salads.

The fuckers likely counted the calories from deep-fried dishes, the bread-crumbs and an entire burger as calories that counted to the meat! Don't trust those psychopaths! They lie when they open their shitty syphillis-ridden cum-holes.

Calculate the meals yourself and you will find this to be true. Take any home-made sandwich for example, take pizza, take any fast-food menu or even restaurant food. Now calculate the actual calories everything from plant-oils which are used everywhere including cheese additives to grains and sugar.

Maybe they calculated food volume, but that is bullshit. If you take food volume, then it's possible, but that is a bullshit calculation - some small foods can be 1500 calories while massive volumes make up 100 calories at best. Nah - caloric wise it's 75-85%:

[Image: b834d1d5688589b582b7ebf6d76c8dcf--health...ractic.jpg]

That's even mainstream. 75% vegan is the standard american diet. Added fats in the processed is a misnomer - no one at corporate adds any significant amounts of butter or lard anywhere - it's "healthy plant oils all the way".

And 25% animal product is already on the healthy side of things. It's closer to 15% for the fatter people - deep fried dishes, plant-oil-infused-cheeses, lots of bread and pizza makes it that way. It's hardly the salami topping and little bit of real cheese that makes pizza so unhealthy. And all fried food is not meat - most of the calories come from the oil that attaches itself to the grains.
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2019 05:55 AM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
11-25-2019 05:45 AM
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Post: #118
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
They finally got to Schwarzenegger.

Made all his gains on an ultra-high protein diet but now preaches that with the right combination of cattle-feed anyone could attain his peak physique without eating so much as a chicken nugget.

RIP young Arnold. Old Arnold sold you out.

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11-25-2019 06:36 AM
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RE: Plant-Based Diets?
< In the vegan propaganda movie Game Changers that he did for James Cameron they ask Arnie what his favorite food is that he cooks. Arnie responds: "Steak!" They left that part in the movie without irony. He only shows some small kitchen of his in his office. Arnie isn't eating lentils and beans, but gulping down steak every day. Whether he has some watermelon slices on top of it is irrelevant.
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2019 06:40 AM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
11-25-2019 06:40 AM
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Zevs Offline
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RE: Plant-Based Diets?
A woman, yeah sure just for you. Here we are arguing or should I say debating about plant based diets, and there is always going to be some one who will call others names. As said before I don't care what you or others think. You can eat what ever you want. I am happy and healthy with my plant based diet. Does it really matter what you eat. Some go Atkins, others Keto and others do all meat, and others no grains. While in Uganda I snacked on grasshoppers. Certainly not plant based
11-25-2019 07:16 AM
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RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(11-25-2019 04:33 AM)flanders Wrote:  
(11-25-2019 01:49 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(11-25-2019 01:06 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  I will ask again since I didn’t get an answer last time. Name one vegan superfood. Name one vegan food item that you can eat and thrive on indefinitely.

Name any single food on which you can stay healthy. It does not exist. Life is about balance. Dr. Mercola is one of the biggest proponents of the Keto diet and he makes very clear that it is intended only as a cyclical therapeutic diet. Honestly, a rotating diet of vegan, Keto, Paleo, Mediterranean, etc. would not be a bad idea.

You could eat nothing but beef and watch your health get better compared to what it was on a mixed diet.

I guess you forgot to cite the citations to the scientific studies that support your claim. Anyone can eat almost anything in the short term and stay healthy -- or even get healthy. As far as a I know, there is no single food that you can eat for decades and stay healthy.
11-25-2019 03:06 PM
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Post: #122
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(11-25-2019 06:36 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  They finally got to Schwarzenegger.

Made all his gains on an ultra-high protein diet but now preaches that with the right combination of cattle-feed anyone could attain his peak physique without eating so much as a chicken nugget.

RIP young Arnold. Old Arnold sold you out.

Agree. Really sad to see what Arnold turned into. A few years back I was finding it admirable in a how he stood up for his illegitimate son and began a relationship with him.

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11-25-2019 03:53 PM
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Post: #123
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
Check out the Anderson Family. They're eating nothing but beef for 20ish years and they look pretty good. Joe is 57, Charlene 42, and their kids, 10 and 8. You cannot tell me this couple look their age.

[Image: zero-carb-family3-550x413.jpg]

[Image: zero-carb-family2-550x724.jpg]

And yes, it's only anecdotal evidence. But it's all I really care about. Especially since most science is based on the absolutely wrong 7 Countries Study. If you want to know why it's wrong, use duckduckgo to look it up, not google. The fact that google suppresses the negative results tells me all I need to know right there.

Ken Berry also had a kid and it'll be assumed that he'll be eating at least keto, and maybe carnivore. I believe parents with carni/keto kids are really gonna blow up any arguement that we need plants when they grow up big and strong, or animal foods are bad.

Gonna have no choice but to start eating animals after all the soil gets shot to shit. Projected for 2050 by some folks. That's another sign that plant diets aren't normal.

Grass-Fed cows promote healthy grass and soil, which promotes a healthy environment. Mass farming to feed people vegan slop fucks up the environment they care so much about, and their health. The irony.

I salute vegans. I honestly don't know how y'all are alive. Wait, it's still thanks to the gods of science.

I'm not trying to throw shade. It just so unnatural in my eyes.

Mongolia is looking real nice right now, solely for the nomadic lifestyle. If it wasn't for China, I'd consider making that move.

After talking to a young lady for a while, she told me “Even though your skin is black, I can tell your heart is white.”
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2019 07:04 PM by whitewashedblackguy.)
11-25-2019 06:20 PM
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porscheguy Offline
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Post: #124
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
Actually the Andersons are 61 and 46 now. I won’t rule out good genetics, but even those only take you so far. But there are countless other examples of carnivores who look like they’ve stopped the aging process.

I’ve repeatedly said that the current vegan diet of out of season fruits and vegetables is unsustainable globally. Triple the number of vegans and no more kale and quinoa. Just processed gmo grain. And that does result in what you’ve mentioned about soil collapse. Even now, the amount of chemical fertilizers needed to produce corn is through the roof.

It’s also worth mentioning that the Anderson’s are exclusively eating grain finished ribeye. Something I’m finding increasingly annoying in the carnivore community is the fixation on grass fed beef.
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2019 02:13 AM by porscheguy.)
11-26-2019 01:57 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #125
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
There were Native American tribes who had a 98% buffallo diet for centuries and they were some of the strongest healthiest beings the settlers met.

The grass fed beef is good because it is the meat that has the best omega 3 to 6 ratio vs all other meats. Fish and beef are foods that we humans can eat the best. In fact all the data points out that humanoids hunted mostly the largest animals on Earth for over 2 mio. years.

I have started eating a lot more beef and can confirm the beneficial results of it. I have experimented also with other meats and there is definitely a difference. I also talked with some ex-vegans and they also feel that beef and fish makes them feel the best.

I doubt that you could survive for generations on 100% chicken because the fat-omega-ratio would likely make you sick. Beef is a different thing.

And grass-fed is better due to different meat composition. Though even that worst US beef is 80% grass-fed anyway. They mainly add the unhealthy feeds later to fatten them up.
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2019 04:18 AM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
11-26-2019 04:05 AM
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