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Plant-Based Diets?
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #151
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(11-30-2019 06:00 PM)911 Wrote:  
(11-30-2019 12:40 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  ....

Don't wanna go into any slave diet here frankly, because that is by default a restrictive one and even if at times in the US they ate vegetarian then this is nothing to be proud of - also 29 years life duration is nothing to boast about.
...

29 years was not the actual age, it's the number of expected years they lived after reaching age 40, so that's lifespans around 70 years.

Then it wasn't that bad for the 19th century - barely a difference frankly despite the difference in station and freedom. 70 is what most Europeans started to reach only in the 1950s.
11-30-2019 07:03 PM
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Post: #152
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(11-30-2019 06:42 PM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  Simeon I think that people can be very healthy with small amounts of meat and animal products if the quality is very high. If you look back through history in a lot of cultures meat and animal product consumption was low but the quality was excellent. When my parents were kids back in their home country animal products were natural compared to today and people were healthy despite low consumption of meat and animal products. Soil quality was better, the eggs were from free roaming chickens eating natural food, the milk was from grass fed cows, etc. People ate soups with bone broth, they ate the bone marrow from bones, the ate animal tongues and brains and kidneys, livers, eyeballs, etc which are very nutrient dense. People were healthy despite the quantity of animal products being consumed being a fraction of what is common in western diets today. Soil was a lot more nutrient dense before, the animals they ate were more natural and ate a healthier diet and they ate a wider variety of animal products. So back in those days a lot of people lived long and healthy lives while only consuming 1 - 3 small portions of animal products per week.

For example a lot of people who eat meat today only eat steak cuts, etc. I mean which westerner today eats sheep brain or cow tongue?

There was a ton of animal products in the food that stopped being there - no seed oils for cooking - lard, tallow, butter. Also bonemeal in bread in the US made the bread into actual superfood. Sure - there were more nutrients in the vegetables and that is where the 60 remaining harvests come into play. Then there was raw milk which almost everyone in the West drank. The current animal-part of the full caloric Western diet is just 15-20%!!!! My guess is that the old generations ate more animal content and had more organ meats. You can make it just with muscle meats even if you have to eat more. At least have some liver if possible.

Still - lack of meat was endemic among the poor in Europe. I remember reading about WWI and the German and Austrian armies - young teenage conscripts - having meat daily for the first time. Most of them had a growth spurt of 3-4 inches in the next months, because they had never had so much meat in their lives. I doubt that you are a beacon of health when you suddenly start to grow properly after giving good military food. That is not a sign of ancestral health, rather of the Dickensian system that was present in the 19th century. Australia and the US was likely better off, but the fact remains. Organ meats were more healthy and cheaper and it was good to eat them. However - what caloric percentage that is - all signs point out that the percentage fell from the 1930s onward.

The Romans had an insult hordearii (eaters of barley) - and it was an insult, because if you could afford only grain, then you were poor and malnourished.

The Hong Kong citizens eat more animal products than Americans and they live almost 10 years longer and are more healthy. All the processed plant crap, seed oils, sugars, that is causing the obesity - not meat, fish and dairy or lard.

Also I might add that I am quite well-versed in supplements. Aside from idiotic ones like iron there is little you can overdo frankly. A vegan making it 10 years already means that a person had to supplement heavily. You cannot get a multitude of nutrients from plants no matter how much your cronometer tells you that you do. But I think that debating vegans is like talking to a blue-haired SJWs about the good that Trump is doing or how negative feminism is. They won't hear anything, won't even listen to the arguments of ex-vegans and MDs and scientists, won't listen to reason, will ignore entire populations and will even ignore history, thousands of years of ice age experiences. They will create myths of humans eating potatoes 20.000 years ago. I dare any bonehead to go out into the woods for 2 weeks without food in the fall, winter or spring and then try to survive on something. Go find your tubers and roots like one vegeterian told me. It's bordering on mental illness and also the clairvoyance of accusing every ex-vegan of either haven a pre-existing condition, being mentally ill, having an eating disorder, having done it wrong etc. And yes - there are a few longer term 10+ year-vegans who increasingly look like shit - Freely or John McDougall, but there are few. Harley Durianrider also looks fine as a major cyclist, but he is taking a ton of steroids, which increases absorption of nutrients. Besides Harley is eating 4000+ calories per day on many days and even he moved away from raw fruits, Though I doubt he would look even as good as he does without the thousands of miles of bicycle-caloric burn and consumption on top of the steroids. His ex Freelee is batshit insane and looks ever more like a skeleton.

Your veganism is a globo-homo funded and promoted eating disorder below a slave diet. It will wreck countless lives of children and mostly young women before they wake up from it. It might even make meat and healthy animal products much more expensive so that we return to the 19th century of Dickensian Europe where suddenly your grandchildren will get a growth spurt of 3 inches if they eat more meat. They already restricted raw milk so much, next will be beef. They are going for the most healthy choices first. And don't worry - the elite will have their kobe beef steak every day. You useful idiots will just do their biddings.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2019 07:29 PM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
11-30-2019 07:24 PM
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Post: #153
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
Some of that irony I was talking about:



After talking to a young lady for a while, she told me “Even though your skin is black, I can tell your heart is white.”
12-01-2019 01:01 PM
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Post: #154
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
< Actually there was another bigger vegan Youtuber who had a heart attack in his 40s. He did not die from it, but there are some. Even the mainstream admits that vegans and vegetarians have more incidences of heart attack, but less heart disease. The issue I have with that is that they define heart disease by cholesterol which is junk science. They don't tell you that the people who live longer have higher levels of cholesterol.

I wonder how many of those people who are diagnosed with heart disease actually have it? Obviously if you are fat, then you are less healthy, but no reason to go vegan to lose weight. Just do one meal per day meat based - that will be so much better.

So that guy died of a heart attack being severely malnourished attempting a water fast (mostly due to digestion issues - all that fiber). And the whole plant food eaters don't do better either.
12-01-2019 01:25 PM
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RE: Plant-Based Diets?
   

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12-01-2019 01:44 PM
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Post: #156
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(12-01-2019 01:25 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  < Actually there was another bigger vegan Youtuber who had a heart attack in his 40s. He did not die from it, but there are some. Even the mainstream admits that vegans and vegetarians have more incidences of heart attack, but less heart disease. The issue I have with that is that they define heart disease by cholesterol which is junk science. They don't tell you that the people who live longer have higher levels of cholesterol.

I wonder how many of those people who are diagnosed with heart disease actually have it? Obviously if you are fat, then you are less healthy, but no reason to go vegan to lose weight. Just do one meal per day meat based - that will be so much better.

So that guy died of a heart attack being severely malnourished attempting a water fast (mostly due to digestion issues - all that fiber). And the whole plant food eaters don't do better either.

I had a female roommate (late 30's) that avoided all animal products except fish because that was the only one that was green-lighted by MSM. Still had a heart attack.

After talking to a young lady for a while, she told me “Even though your skin is black, I can tell your heart is white.”
12-01-2019 06:04 PM
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Post: #157
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(12-01-2019 01:25 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  < Actually there was another bigger vegan Youtuber who had a heart attack in his 40s. He did not die from it, but there are some. Even the mainstream admits that vegans and vegetarians have more incidences of heart attack, but less heart disease. The issue I have with that is that they define heart disease by cholesterol which is junk science. They don't tell you that the people who live longer have higher levels of cholesterol.

I wonder how many of those people who are diagnosed with heart disease actually have it? Obviously if you are fat, then you are less healthy, but no reason to go vegan to lose weight. Just do one meal per day meat based - that will be so much better.

So that guy died of a heart attack being severely malnourished attempting a water fast (mostly due to digestion issues - all that fiber). And the whole plant food eaters don't do better either.

Where is your evidence of this conspiracy theory that coronary heart disease is widely misdiagnosed as high cholesterol or whatever else? It is diagnosed when there are heart problems due to narrowed coronary arteries and a lack of blood reaching the heart to permit normal function. Where is your evidence that vegans or vegetarians have more heart attacks?

It sounds like you and/or your favorite internet gurus are getting tripped up with survivorship/selection bias regarding cholesterol. The total to HDL ratio is clearly a risk factor at the population level and this has been well established by several studies (e.g. Prospective Studies Collaboration, a meta study of ~900k people). Over time as the people more vulnerable to heart disease die off from it, you are increasingly left with survivors who are uniquely resilient. Even if the surviving elderly population (likely with superior genetics for cardiovascular health) exhibit cholesterol ratios that would be inauspicious for an average person, it does not at all logically follow that high total to HDL cholesterol is not a useful metabolic clue for investigating poor health.

If total to HDL cholesterol is high it is a red flag and even if it is not a coronary heart disease death sentence for every individual experiencing it, further investigation as to the cause is a lot smarter than just shrugging it off. It could be related to insulin resistance, fatty liver, thyroid dysfunction etc.
12-01-2019 08:48 PM
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Post: #158
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(11-30-2019 06:42 PM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  Simeon I think that people can be very healthy with small amounts of meat and animal products if the quality is very high. If you look back through history in a lot of cultures meat and animal product consumption was low but the quality was excellent. When my parents were kids back in their home country animal products were natural compared to today and people were healthy despite low consumption of meat and animal products. Soil quality was better, the eggs were from free roaming chickens eating natural food, the milk was from grass fed cows, etc. People ate soups with bone broth, they ate the bone marrow from bones, the ate animal tongues and brains and kidneys, livers, eyeballs, etc which are very nutrient dense. People were healthy despite the quantity of animal products being consumed being a fraction of what is common in western diets today. Soil was a lot more nutrient dense before, the animals they ate were more natural and ate a healthier diet and they ate a wider variety of animal products. So back in those days a lot of people lived long and healthy lives while only consuming 1 - 3 small portions of animal products per week.

For example a lot of people who eat meat today only eat steak cuts, etc. I mean which westerner today eats sheep brain or cow tongue?

It's not necessarily the case that people ate only small amounts of animal products in the past.

Some did, but they were basically the poor (peasants) in environments of scarcity. This was normalised in many European and other countries, but it doesn't mean it's some kind of ideal diet.

People mostly ate as much meat and animal products as they could.

Even my forebears in the early 20thC in Europe, who could be described as peasants, ate lots of pork, chicken, eggs and dairy. Daily, not 1-3 portions a week.

There's a lot of complexity and variation in cultural diets. So much so that you can't really point to any vague ideal as normative. But your point seems to be that portions should be small and quality high, whereas I don't see the downside with larger portions. The case has to be made with science.

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12-01-2019 09:49 PM
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Post: #159
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
To me; whatever the MSM / globohomo push ( obviously veganism in this case ) just don't do it!

My Germanic family ate loads of beef / pork and fish. My grandfathers were tall and built like oaks and would always prefer a good meaty meal or bone soup over vegetables or bread etc, or at least they would combine it with the animal products being the thing to go for.

This whole veganism debate is similar to the whole vaccine debate. Whatever the overlords and their useful idiots attack and defile means there's actually some opposite truth in it, educate and then come to your own conclusions.

I'm surprised it's even a debate on a red-pill forum like this.
My diet is probably 90% animal product and that means any type of meat and fish, dairy and eggs. The 10% might constitute of seasonings like onions and garlic and a salad now and then at the barbeque. Never sick
12-01-2019 10:53 PM
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Post: #160
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
The only diet that is so rich in oxalates that you can have your gallbladder removed - those "healthy" greens are filled with wonderful anti-nutrients:





15 years vegan diet severely damaged that woman's body.

Only on a vegan diet do you require B12 shots and only on that diet do people become infertile awfully fast, lose hair en masse as women, lose libido as men etc.

It's the only diet that requires a ton of calibration, calculation and supplementation - and even then your body falls apart just in 15 years instead of 2-5.

Seriously - it is nothing but a con, because nutrition is a highly neglected and very strongly manipulated field of science.

I might also add another point - in nature there is a species specific diet. Even with dogs who have been bred along very different lines, most dogs respond well to an all-meat diet with a few exceptions. Humans - of almost all races - differ less than some of the dog breeds out there (at least when basic physiology is concerned). We have to assume that we have a species specific optimal diet that only deviates slightly. That means also that no matter whether some can stomach some foods better, we humans should likely have a diet that is very similar once we find that optimal one. The populations of Hong Kong, Iceland and the Masai are indicators of that.

Though don't hold your breath - the elite is not interested in give it to you, so that you are smart, strong, healthy, tall and live to 120. They want you dumber and functionally sufficient between 20 and 50, then best dying of some disease that will take away your life savings. That is their optimal model for the lower classes. The plant-based/vegan/global warming push is just part of that goal. The ideal citizen is barely functional from 20 to 50 and then dies soon after - best before retirement.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2019 06:31 AM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
12-02-2019 06:29 AM
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RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(12-01-2019 08:48 PM)jcardial Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 01:25 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  < Actually there was another bigger vegan Youtuber who had a heart attack in his 40s. He did not die from it, but there are some. Even the mainstream admits that vegans and vegetarians have more incidences of heart attack, but less heart disease. The issue I have with that is that they define heart disease by cholesterol which is junk science. They don't tell you that the people who live longer have higher levels of cholesterol.

I wonder how many of those people who are diagnosed with heart disease actually have it? Obviously if you are fat, then you are less healthy, but no reason to go vegan to lose weight. Just do one meal per day meat based - that will be so much better.

So that guy died of a heart attack being severely malnourished attempting a water fast (mostly due to digestion issues - all that fiber). And the whole plant food eaters don't do better either.

Where is your evidence of this conspiracy theory that coronary heart disease is widely misdiagnosed as high cholesterol or whatever else? It is diagnosed when there are heart problems due to narrowed coronary arteries and a lack of blood reaching the heart to permit normal function. Where is your evidence that vegans or vegetarians have more heart attacks?

It sounds like you and/or your favorite internet gurus are getting tripped up with survivorship/selection bias regarding cholesterol. The total to HDL ratio is clearly a risk factor at the population level and this has been well established by several studies (e.g. Prospective Studies Collaboration, a meta study of ~900k people). Over time as the people more vulnerable to heart disease die off from it, you are increasingly left with survivors who are uniquely resilient. Even if the surviving elderly population (likely with superior genetics for cardiovascular health) exhibit cholesterol ratios that would be inauspicious for an average person, it does not at all logically follow that high total to HDL cholesterol is not a useful metabolic clue for investigating poor health.

If total to HDL cholesterol is high it is a red flag and even if it is not a coronary heart disease death sentence for every individual experiencing it, further investigation as to the cause is a lot smarter than just shrugging it off. It could be related to insulin resistance, fatty liver, thyroid dysfunction etc.

Correlation doesn't equal causation. This is why the 7 countries study ruined science. People were so busy worrying about cholesterol that they didn't look at any other numbers, like Triglycerides, blood sugar, or insulin levels, which are far more accurate at predicting things like diabetes and heart attack.

If you wanna get up to date, you should read a book like Cholesterol Clarity, The Big Fat Lie, The Carnivore Diet, or Lies My Doctor Told Me. All these books go into further investigation.

P.S. HDL is good and LDL is bad. Don't get 'em mixed up.

P.P.S. If cholesterol is such a big deal then that raw vegan guy would not of died of a heart attack. What fruit has cholesterol in it? On the other hand, fruit is full of sugar, pretty much the same as eating candy. Think about it bro...

After talking to a young lady for a while, she told me “Even though your skin is black, I can tell your heart is white.”
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2019 10:54 AM by whitewashedblackguy.)
12-02-2019 10:31 AM
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RE: Plant-Based Diets?
There is a correlation between big feet and mathematical ability in the population - babies have the least amount of those skills. Ergo big feet = good math skills.

The original cholesterol study gave you an added supposed risk of 18% - meanwhile later they found that the doc had lovingly excluded several countries which did not prove the hypothesis!!!!

That is why the vegans and official mainstream says that suddenly higher cholesterol in old age causes "reverse causation"! Reverse causation? You mean as in - the higher cholesterol you have in old age the longer you live?????

Also 18% correlation is nothing - smoking and lung cancer has correlation rates of 2000%. Many main studies only start looking into any potential causation after they find some 300-500% correlation. Otherwise it's statistical nothingness.

There are in contrast strong indicators that those 18% and more of more heart diseases is rather caused by carbs, grains, sugars and plant seed oils - less by meat or even vegetables, fruits and unprocessed starches like rice and potatoes. There is zero scientific fact that proves cholesterol causing any heart issues. Plant seed oils however - we have indicators that it's causing havoc:



12-02-2019 11:22 AM
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Post: #163
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(12-02-2019 10:31 AM)whitewashedblackguy Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 08:48 PM)jcardial Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 01:25 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  < Actually there was another bigger vegan Youtuber who had a heart attack in his 40s. He did not die from it, but there are some. Even the mainstream admits that vegans and vegetarians have more incidences of heart attack, but less heart disease. The issue I have with that is that they define heart disease by cholesterol which is junk science. They don't tell you that the people who live longer have higher levels of cholesterol.

I wonder how many of those people who are diagnosed with heart disease actually have it? Obviously if you are fat, then you are less healthy, but no reason to go vegan to lose weight. Just do one meal per day meat based - that will be so much better.

So that guy died of a heart attack being severely malnourished attempting a water fast (mostly due to digestion issues - all that fiber). And the whole plant food eaters don't do better either.

Where is your evidence of this conspiracy theory that coronary heart disease is widely misdiagnosed as high cholesterol or whatever else? It is diagnosed when there are heart problems due to narrowed coronary arteries and a lack of blood reaching the heart to permit normal function. Where is your evidence that vegans or vegetarians have more heart attacks?

It sounds like you and/or your favorite internet gurus are getting tripped up with survivorship/selection bias regarding cholesterol. The total to HDL ratio is clearly a risk factor at the population level and this has been well established by several studies (e.g. Prospective Studies Collaboration, a meta study of ~900k people). Over time as the people more vulnerable to heart disease die off from it, you are increasingly left with survivors who are uniquely resilient. Even if the surviving elderly population (likely with superior genetics for cardiovascular health) exhibit cholesterol ratios that would be inauspicious for an average person, it does not at all logically follow that high total to HDL cholesterol is not a useful metabolic clue for investigating poor health.

If total to HDL cholesterol is high it is a red flag and even if it is not a coronary heart disease death sentence for every individual experiencing it, further investigation as to the cause is a lot smarter than just shrugging it off. It could be related to insulin resistance, fatty liver, thyroid dysfunction etc.

Correlation doesn't equal causation. This is why the 7 countries study ruined science. People were so busy worrying about cholesterol that they didn't look at any other numbers, like Triglycerides, blood sugar, or insulin levels, which are far more accurate at predicting things like diabetes and heart attack.

If you wanna get up to date, you should read a book like Cholesterol Clarity, The Big Fat Lie, The Carnivore Diet, or Lies My Doctor Told Me. All these books go into further investigation.

P.S. HDL is good and LDL is bad. Don't get 'em mixed up.

P.P.S. If cholesterol is such a big deal then that raw vegan guy would not of died of a heart attack. What fruit has cholesterol in it? On the other hand, fruit is full of sugar, pretty much the same as eating candy. Think about it bro...

I think he was talking about the Total Cholesterol to HDL ratio, which is a predictor for the LDL-P (particle size of LDL lipoproteins). This is not to be confused with LDL-C, which is the total LDL concentration, which is not a predictor of cardiovascular disease. There are two types of LDL particles, small LDL (pattern A) which is increased by carbohydrate consumption, or the harmless large LDL (pattern B) which is increased by saturated fat consumption.
I think I read somewhere (can't confirm) that too low LDL-C can cause heart attacks.
So, I'm sticking to animal fats for 60% of my caloric intake.
12-02-2019 11:45 AM
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RE: Plant-Based Diets?
(12-02-2019 10:31 AM)whitewashedblackguy Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 08:48 PM)jcardial Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 01:25 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  < Actually there was another bigger vegan Youtuber who had a heart attack in his 40s. He did not die from it, but there are some. Even the mainstream admits that vegans and vegetarians have more incidences of heart attack, but less heart disease. The issue I have with that is that they define heart disease by cholesterol which is junk science. They don't tell you that the people who live longer have higher levels of cholesterol.

I wonder how many of those people who are diagnosed with heart disease actually have it? Obviously if you are fat, then you are less healthy, but no reason to go vegan to lose weight. Just do one meal per day meat based - that will be so much better.

So that guy died of a heart attack being severely malnourished attempting a water fast (mostly due to digestion issues - all that fiber). And the whole plant food eaters don't do better either.

Where is your evidence of this conspiracy theory that coronary heart disease is widely misdiagnosed as high cholesterol or whatever else? It is diagnosed when there are heart problems due to narrowed coronary arteries and a lack of blood reaching the heart to permit normal function. Where is your evidence that vegans or vegetarians have more heart attacks?

It sounds like you and/or your favorite internet gurus are getting tripped up with survivorship/selection bias regarding cholesterol. The total to HDL ratio is clearly a risk factor at the population level and this has been well established by several studies (e.g. Prospective Studies Collaboration, a meta study of ~900k people). Over time as the people more vulnerable to heart disease die off from it, you are increasingly left with survivors who are uniquely resilient. Even if the surviving elderly population (likely with superior genetics for cardiovascular health) exhibit cholesterol ratios that would be inauspicious for an average person, it does not at all logically follow that high total to HDL cholesterol is not a useful metabolic clue for investigating poor health.

If total to HDL cholesterol is high it is a red flag and even if it is not a coronary heart disease death sentence for every individual experiencing it, further investigation as to the cause is a lot smarter than just shrugging it off. It could be related to insulin resistance, fatty liver, thyroid dysfunction etc.

Correlation doesn't equal causation. This is why the 7 countries study ruined science. People were so busy worrying about cholesterol that they didn't look at any other numbers, like Triglycerides, blood sugar, or insulin levels, which are far more accurate at predicting things like diabetes and heart attack.

If you wanna get up to date, you should read a book like Cholesterol Clarity, The Big Fat Lie, The Carnivore Diet, or Lies My Doctor Told Me. All these books go into further investigation.

P.S. HDL is good and LDL is bad. Don't get 'em mixed up.

P.P.S. If cholesterol is such a big deal then that raw vegan guy would not of died of a heart attack. What fruit has cholesterol in it? On the other hand, fruit is full of sugar, pretty much the same as eating candy. Think about it bro...

You misread what I wrote. The risk factor is a high ratio of total cholesterol to HDL (not high HDL, as high HDL would make your ratio more, not less favorable). Also, LDL is not inherently bad as it is a transporter protein and you need it for regular function. However, when LDL gets oxidized/damaged it can be problematic.

Where is your evidence of how he died? The guy looked like he was starving himself, which could have caused heart/organ failure, which could be completely unrelated to cholesterol levels. No one here is recommending a completely raw or frutarian diet so I don't understand why you guys keep strawmanning this discussion.

There is an interesting discussion to be had about what percentage of the diet should be whole foods plant based, and it isn't improved by spamming this thread with anecdotes of people who died while they did the Atkins or xyz extreme diet. A lot of people turn to any diet in an attempt to resolve a health problem, so it is delusional to over analyze people who likely already had poor genetics or major pre existing health issues. Provide real scientific evidence or you are just spamming worthless nonsense.
12-02-2019 04:13 PM
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RE: Plant-Based Diets?
I've already done that. Just do you brah.

After talking to a young lady for a while, she told me “Even though your skin is black, I can tell your heart is white.”
12-02-2019 05:48 PM
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Post: #166
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
A good interview with an academic nutritionist who says that we barely researched the true toxicity of plant anti-nutrients like oxalates.





There is barely any science on it - most of us have been poisoning us with oxalates - not only smoothies, but also salads and 24/7/12mo/yr summer diet. That is absolutely a new thing that only manifested since the 1960s.

Even getting rid of those oxalates can have an immune reaction since your body suddenly flushes them out - so massive plant eaters will then have a reaction like a rash or others, before the body is done flushing out that crap. Keep in mind that the nutritionist here did everything right and almost died in her 50s due to plant-anti-nutrients.

Oxalates are severe massive toxins on top of others that you consume with massive plant-food consumption 12 months per year. Seems like some of the side-effects can last for years. It's possible that the health deterioration in the West despite great medical care may be based not only on processed foods, but even too many vegetables.
12-03-2019 05:24 AM
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kel Offline
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Post: #167
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
I was vegan for over ten years, and while I didn't feel terrible, I definitely feel better now. Just more nourished, and my gym performance really can't be compared.

The best single, quick, simple video I recommend to people is this, you can skip to 6:30 if the link doesn't do it automatically. He just talks about ruminants, not even touching fish, fowl (meat or eggs), pigs, etc. but still hits upon protein quality (and protein is the least of your concerns, really, if you're on a vegan diet), the myth of "just grow avocados on grazing land, bro", etc. Highly recommended, IMO.
12-03-2019 03:24 PM
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Post: #168
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
They're pushing veganism real hard now in Australia. The leftie channels are obviously pushing the old fear mongering of dying young if you eat meat but even the "conservative right" channels are proposing " eat steak once a month and stop eating cheese" .
This whole veganism religion seems unbelievably important to our globohomo overlords.
I rather listen to someone like Shawn Baker MD than a bunch of leftie indoctrinated Uni clowns.
12-05-2019 01:41 AM
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porscheguy Offline
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Post: #169
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
It is important to the globohomo overlords. Henry Kissinger once said “control oil and you control nations, control the food and you control the people.”

I’ve said repeatedly that vegans are delusional in that they think that global veganism means kale salad, quinoa, and cashew butter for everyone. The reality is that global veganism means GMO soy and grain for everyone. It means stunted growth and development. Widespread sickness. A population of docile slaves who will produce until they reach their 50s and then break down and die. A population unable to rise up. And if You think they might, you simply add a bit of estrogen to their gmo kibble ration and they quiet down. If that’s not enough, you shut off their water.
12-05-2019 12:49 PM
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Iconoclast007 Offline
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Post: #170
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
Ive been on strict Carnivore for a year. Ive lost 15lbs of pure fat, gained 5 lbs of pure muscle, got my testosterone rocking and squashed a severe autoimmune disease.

All the men i meet living similar lifestyles are ripped and healthy, succsessfull.

All the vegan losers I meet are delusional, typically pro feminist anti patriarchy and weak.

It is not by chance.
12-07-2019 02:27 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #171
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
< You can read countless other such stories on meatrx. And even as some say - that there may be long-term consequences, then carnivores have little qualms to add some lettuce and low-oxalate vegetables. For many poeple with severe health-issues this was the best choice - probably for the majority it's enough to up the healthy meat & animal products and cut out the crap. Also - lower their intake of oxalate- and other anti-nutrient vegetables which are sorely underestimated. Even your daily potatoes are not really that healthy as more and more scientists find out - let alone foods like spinach or kale which shouldn't be in the human diet at all.
12-07-2019 02:35 PM
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Post: #172
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
Simeon I would like to point out a few things. Firstly regarding what you said about dogs, even though that appears to be what a dog's digestive system and teeth are designed for (a primarily carnivorous diet), for example a family friend of ours had a dog that lived to pretty healthily to 16 years old eating whatever human food they ate. The dog's diet would have had no more than 20 - 30% meat/animal products. Of course that is only an anecdote and there are a lot of other variables going on at the same time but it does make you wonder.

As for humans being pretty much the same its proven that certain people have genetic adaptations to be able to better process grains and others have genetic adaptations to better process dairy products. I am not sure the argument holds the humans are genetically similar enough that they should eat the same foods. I am not arguing against it, I just think we need more evidence.

As for what I said before about portions of animal products per week, I am not saying that eating more is bad. I just think of its a case of eating "enough" and like most things in life it subject to the laws of diminishing marginal utility. For example eating a diet with 30% animal products might lead you to be a lot healthier than being vegan. Does it necessarily follow that eating 90% animal products will make you even healthier? I am not convinced.

As for people pointing at ancient Mongol warriors or Eskimos etc eating a primarily animal based diet, firstly that was not because of any ideology that they had. Its because that was the food mostly available to them. Mongols did whatever they could to get tubers or other vegetables etc whenever they could. Eskimos sometimes ate the fur of animals to get fiber into their diet and they ate the undigested (or partially digested) plant matter inside the intestines or stomachs of the animals they killed to try and get some plant matter into their diet. They also scavenged for plants wherever they could. Also Eskimos possibly have a genetic adaptation that means it is much more difficult for the body to go into ketosis than an average person.

The two following links provide some food for thought (just playing devils advocate here)
https://nutritionstudies.org/is-the-keto...or-humans/
https://nutritionstudies.org/masai-and-i...oser-look/
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2019 05:38 PM by Australia Sucks.)
12-07-2019 05:23 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #173
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
< You are linking here to globohomo financed sites like nutritionfacts by other quacks. Colin Campbell to this day repeats the China study as gospel and looks like a walking corpse:




(And I don't even think that he is vegan - he admits to lots of cheating himself.)

The China study has been debunked repeatedly again and again, but the fuckers come back with it again and again. Hong Kongers eat far more meat and live far longer. There has never been proven any correlation of meat or dairy and cancer - at best known carcinogens in some processed meats like sausages - especially when fake animal additives or chemicals are used. However there is a good inkling about seed oils causing shit.

Ay - we have some genetic adaptations, though gluten? No human on earth takes that in stride. Oxalates - toxic for every human on earth - just won't impact health at some.


I am not even talking about mongols here - we evolved out of herbivore monkeys and the human ancestors have been eating mostly meat for 2 mio. years - some have used fire since 1.7 to 1.5 mio. years. We have hunted entire large animal groups to extinctions, because it was better to hunt a large mastodon that gave you millions of calories vs collecting some berries or tubers which were available for a few weeks per year.

So you have close to 2 mio. years of mostly carnviore diet vs a few thousand years of adaptation and some eating it. Dr. Campball is another one of those end-stage vegan doctors who look like ghouls telling you that you can look that way too:

Quote:For example, Campbell conveniently fails to mention the county of Tuoli in China. The folks in Tuoli ate 45% of their diet as fat, 134 grams of animal protein each day (twice as much as the average American), and rarely ate vegetables or other plant foods. Yet, according to the China Study data, they were extremely healthy with low rates of cancer and heart disease; healthier, in fact, than many of the counties that were nearly vegan.

This is just one of many cases of the selective citation and data cherry picking Campbell employs in the China Study. Denise’s critique masterfully reveals the danger of drawing conclusions from epidemiological studies, which can only show correlations between variables – not causal relationships. Campbell should be well aware of this. After all, in his book he rails against the nutritional bias rampant in the scientific community. Yet nowhere is such bias more evident than in Campbell’s own interpretation of the China Study data.

Denise concludes:

Ultimately, I believe Campbell was influenced by his own expectations about animal protein and disease, leading him to seek out specific correlations in the China Study data (and elsewhere) to confirm his predictions.

https://chriskresser.com/rest-in-peace-china-study/

People have a lot of preconceived notions about diet and fact is that we humans can survive on a lot so long as we have some animal nutrients. And yes - some nearly vegan/vegetarian tribes survive on getting B12 by ingesting human shit on their vegetables (Persia/India), but this is not an optimal diet for fuck's sake. They are not the healthiest strongest specimen of mankind unless you want to regress evolution to gorillas who eat their shit and have to eat most of the day.

Human diets always were influenced by local availability and we do like variety. There is frankly so much bunk on nutritional science with mostly weak correlation studies that we can at best compare a few controlled trials. For example there have been almost 100 studies done on hospital patients - high-fat keto vs high carb diet for patients. The high-fat keto patients were beating the health results of the high-carb patients in all of those 100 controlled studies. But vegan doctors still spout their shitty drivel.

And even that does not prove that much - it just proves that more meat and intermittent fasting is better, who knows - 80% meat based beef and fish would have been even better.

We only know that all the plant-based food pyramid since the 1950s, the constant oxalate and anti-nutrient-consumption and the pushing of seed-oils and relentless carbs - that this was making us sicker and sicker. The Hong Kong and Japanese diets are more consistent with what they ate in the decades ago and that is why the Westerners likely ballooned while many of the Asians remained slim and live longer while being healthy and spending less for health care. Your grandfather and great-grandfather unless he was dirt-poor certainly ate far more calories from animals all year long, and he ate far less veggies because refrigation barely started so those were only available seasonally. They cooked and fried everything on animal fats and the milk consumed was raw (you can forget about pasteurized milk - it's almost useless for us humans).

Best is to take a look at the talks I linked to, if you care enough listen to the hundreds of testimonials of ex-vegans. I witnessed vegan deterioration in my vicinity - I witnessed even vegeterian deterioration and descent into literal madness that subsided by mere adding of fish and beef.

And fasts in religion and society - that is fine - though a full water fast is better since your body switches later to body-fat consumption and the Jesus 40-day-desert fast is actually found to be beneficial - takes some people longer to switch to full keto - longer than 3 weeks - 40 days and scripture proven correct in this regard. Why did Jesus fast for 40 days? Because he knew that his body needed at least 21 days to get to deep ketosis - heh.





And again - I certainly don't have fulls answers here. Everyone who knows the state of the science like the Phd Nutritionist https://sallyknorton.com Sally Knorton - we all know that we are still fishing in dark waters here. At best we can say what does not work:

+ most plant seed oils
+ too much carbs
+ too much fiber
+ too much constant consumption of vegetables which contain anti-nutrients
+ too little animal products
+ too little animal facts
+ too much Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio - thus fish and beef being best for humans
+ vegan diet - crap
+ vegetarian diet - unless coupled with a ton of raw milk, raw cream, raw butter and organic egg - is a lacking slave diet

Anything else - ratio of everything for every human - no one bloody knows honestly with any significant certainty.

We will probably know one day, but not while the globohomos are in charge who would prefer if you died at age 60 and who prefer a world population of 500 mio.
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2019 06:35 PM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
12-07-2019 06:33 PM
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Australia Sucks Offline
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Post: #174
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
Simeon you wrote "We will probably know one day, but not while the globohomos are in charge who would prefer if you died at age 60 and who prefer a world population of 500 mio."
I am always a little sceptical of such claims. If it is indeed true they do not seem to be doing a very good job of it to date. The world's population continues to rise as it has been doing for hundreds of years.
12-07-2019 10:05 PM
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Teedub Offline
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Post: #175
RE: Plant-Based Diets?
Moderation. I think a bit of meat every day, or even just a steak week or whatever is fine in terms of getting your B12. 20 years ago the atkins diet was pushed by all the media outlets, now it's veganism, it's just cultural fads. That said, the amount of red meat Americans eat is unhealthy IMO. Then of course you have people who have ethical concerns, and I'm not going to call them 'fags' because of some tenuous societal link between eating steaks and being masculine. I'm not going to list the very masculine combat athletes that are veggies/vegans as it's been done by others. So yeah, moderation. Fish and vegetables has been the go-to for boxers, Japs, and many Italians for centuries. That's probably the best from what I can see in terms of life longevity.

The things you own end up owning you.
12-08-2019 08:45 AM
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