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Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
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rcallini Offline
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Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
Hi guys, I’d be extremely grateful for some advice on a potential very big life decision regarding an LTR with a view to having kids. In recent years I’ve realised that I definitely want kids and don’t want to have them when I’m too old to enjoy them fully, so I have been focusing my attention on finding a girl worthy for the task. Over the past year I have been seeing one girl in particular, who, after not considering her initially for this role is starting to make me think...

Me: 34, have my own place in London and a job that basically maximises by time/reward doing something that is by no means a passion but that don’t hate or have to worry too much about. The goal long term is to use this to become financially independent and probably still work but scale back the hours. Very secure financially and career wise. Spun plates the last 3 years, but not too many, focusing more on quality over quantity. Quite content with my life, hobbies, travels and also prepared to not have kids if I don’t meet a suitable woman.

Her: 24, born and raised in Sweden, lives in Stockholm, just entered her final year studying as a nurse. Family heritage is Persian, non-religious/don’t follow Islam. Lives at home with her parents and has always done so. Physically/genetically, pretty much everything I want and am turned on by. 5’7, face is cute and pretty, extremely slim, a phenomenal ass, smallish but very firm boobs, great skin and hair and a high-pitched feminine voice.

The problem:
I am somewhat hardcore on my red pill views on what I want in terms of LTR material for kids and early on I excluded her from this role for 3 primary reasons, in increasing order of concern:
1) On the second date, after spending the whole day together, we came back at night to my airbnb, started making out/heavy petting and after about 15 minutes, as I was lying on top of her she just took off her skirt and top, stripping down to her underwear pretty much inviting me to fuck her. For the sake of context, we first met at a party, then two months later had a first date where we came back to mine and made out/heavy petting and then two months later had this second date. We were texting quite frequently in between. Even so, with my views that’s not LTR mother of your children type stuff.
2) During the same action I noticed a small tattoo on the side of her ribcage under her arm. It’s in relation to her girlfriend and friendship. They each got a similar one when drunk on holiday. I’ve always considered this an immediate slut tell and evidence of poor long-term judgment.
3) The same weekend, when discussing exes she mentioned that she had slept with 4 guys, each boyfriends, one roughly every year between the ages of 18 and 22 and her last boyfriend cheated on her following which she dumped him immediately. Both the quick succession of boyfriends, so many at such a young age, plus being cheated on once are all big red flags for me, basically showing no long-term planning ability. She explains the boyfriends due to the fact that her mom was really strict with her while she was at school, putting a curfew on her and not letting her go to parties etc. So when she finished school and was 18 and could do what she wanted she rebelled/went wild for a bit. The first one was a 6 month fling/lost virginity. The second one was a beta as far as I can tell that she dumped after a year, lasted 9 months. The third was a solid guy it seems but began to try to control her because she liked to go to out dancing/clubbing alot during this time and as soon as he did that she dumped him, lasted a year. The last one lived abroad from her also, lasted 1.5 yrs.

The trouble I am having is that literally everything she does and how she is, which is the reason I asked her out in the first place, does not fit at all with the “just for fun” box I want to put her in. And the more and more I try to force myself to put her in that box because of my firm views on her past, and the more time I spend with her, she shows herself consistently to be one of the coolest girls I’ve met with a sweetness and innocence about her which I literally have no idea how is possible given her past. I’ve been with more than enough women and I’m well trained in the game and red pill, yet this has totally confused me.

Pros:
Polite, well mannered, dresses with class, doesn’t wear too much makeup, walks and talks like a lady, family orientated, can cook, is always happy, studies hard, doesn’t argue, not narcissistic, doesn’t use Instagram, has never smoked or done drugs, drinks very mildly only if going out, doesn’t go out clubbing alot, has never thrown up from being drunk, chilled, easy to hang out with, interested in nature and health and fitness. Rarely on her phone when we are out together. Doesn’t show cleavage and makes sure she doesn’t wear dresses that are too short. Asks about my family regularly in a genuine way and wants to meet them. Shows strong interest in me calling me and texting me regularly. Unbelievable in the bedroom, not in a slutty or desperate for degradation way, more in a very enthusiastic and relaxed and generous way (although her confidence and freeness about sex of course gets me thinking about the 4 guys). No thousand cock stare, no abusive exes, has a great positive energy and optimism, very smiley and warm and affectionate. She has danced from a young age and does so on her own in a room in her house most evenings. She is absolutely incredible and very talented. She is very in tune with her body and it’s really a joy to watch her dance. I haven’t given her any gifts or beta bucks type affection other than paying for the odd meal. We don’t do expensive things when we are together and i haven’t given her any indication of my financial position or income, nor has she asked. So I’m pretty sure she’s into me for me.
She shows totally genuine emotions for me like wanting to hug me and lie on top of me after sex. Once I couldn’t get it up after a long week at work and she was super cool, just hugged me and kept telling me not to worry. Every time I leave her at the airport, she basically doesn’t stop hugging me and bursts out into tears. I have studied and questioned her like a hawk for inconsistencies. No one night stands, and I believe this again, having spent such a long time with her and tried to find holes in her character and also having myself tried extremely hard the first night with no luck. As far as trust/cheating whist we are in different countries, many of you will probably say “oh she’s obviously having her fun while I’m not there.” My only answer is that as a very red pill guy with a very strong detector for this stuff, I simply have a very high degree of certainty isn’t the case. She has such consistency in relation to this in terms of how she acts, speaks and behaves with me that I am assured she is genuinely committed to me. We see eachother every 4 weeks alternating who visits who. Her previous bf of 1.5 yrs also studied abroad. Similarly some will say, “how do you know if she was only with the 4 guys” to which I would say the same thing. She actually just explains it in quite a matter a fact way and owns it, I don’t think she would have a problem telling me if it was 5, 6, 7 etc. Although, that in itself is a negative in my view as she doesn’t really seem as ashamed as I think she should be, which leads on to:

Cons, aside from the main 3 reasons:
Very carefree about life, idealistic and clearly doesn’t attach a huge amount of meaning to relationships/sex as she doesn’t seem damaged or hurt from her past at all, they’re just part of growing up for her. This is possibly just the Swedish way, but that in itself is something I don’t like. Quite disorganised and late often. Politically, although not interested in politics, would probably be centre-left, whilst I’m on the right. She certainly is not a typical Swedish feminist and supports traditional gender roles if people choose them, but clearly a small part of her has absorbed some of her environment. That again, is not ideal as I would prefer a politically right wing woman for this role. She has said whilst she would like to start her career as a nurse that she wants kids and she is open to being a stay at home mum if it works better for the whole family emotionally, socially and financially but even then, she would hopefully like to work part-time when the kids are older. Again, my preference would be for a full time stay at home mother in this role. This may be negotiable with her.

Further Thoughts:
The only justifications that I can give her regarding her past are that firstly, when she goes out she gets hit on a hell of a lot. The first time we met I saw about 3 guys approach her prior to me within 30 minutes and get shot down. The first bar we went to on a date, I ordered at the bar, turned round and I see a guy approach her who she shut down within a blink of an eye. She’s by no means a supermodel, but when we walk down the street I can see all the guys checking her out. If I was to drop her tomorrow, she would have plenty options the next time she went out if she wanted. Should I maybe not treat her so harshly, also in the context of her rebellion and Swedish culture just being very secure/unashamed about having sex? The other is that, even though she fucked these 4 guys in quick succession and refers to it as a wild period, she also refers to the fact that she went clubbing 2/3 times a week as acting wild which is strange because for me that was just normal part of what I did at university. And in terms of this, having been out with her and her friends on a few occasions, she does just go there to dance with her friends in a circle and talk outside in the smoking area. And she does the same thing when we go out together, I can just stand there and she’ll basically perform for me or we’ll just go outside and talk. If it’s a place where it’s a bit loud, lots of people where she can’t dance, she doesn’t actually enjoy or want to talk to people and wants to go home.

Finally:
The problem is that ideally my LTR would be a virgin or 1-2 boyfriends max and thinking about her fucking these dudes one after the other like is not a pleasant image. And that’s the biggest headfuck which is that if you ask my what my day to day experience of this girl is that it’s that she is a high quality woman. Probably the highest quality I’ve been with, consistently enjoyable and stress free. But when I think about her past it is pretty disgusting to me and the sign of a low quality woman. Has anyone experience anything similar? I’m hoping some of you tell me I’m missing some massive red flags, have been suckered in and would be making a mistake and others maybe that I’m over-thinking what is probably the normal life of most girls in the West these days and need to be a little bit more open minded and suck it up. I’m not looking to make this decision immediately, but it’s begun to confuse me more and more and I’d really appreciate the advice and different opinions and perspectives. Many thanks.
(This post was last modified: 09-23-2019 11:57 AM by rcallini.)
09-23-2019 11:56 AM
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Latan Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
Let's just state the obvious :
- 4 isn't the real number. Multiply by 3 (or 5).
- she quickly and without much resistance slept with you, so she did it with other guys (not included in the "official" 4 dudes).
- women are experts at hiding who they are : they can appear as the most innocent beings, when it suits them. So of course you see her that way, even if you know her past.
- you show a bit of hopelessness when you talk about her, something like "I don't think she fits the mother's role, but I'm afraid I won't find any better, so shouldn't I just ignore my core principles and settle for her?"

Other than that, realistically she doesn't appear like a slut to me, but I only see her through your eyes.
As you find her particularly attractive, that's something else which can blind you.
Maybe you should try draining your balls and see what's on your mind then : have the post nut clarity to guide your decisions.

In the end, Follow your gut instinct : you just wrote a little novel about this girl, showing your doubts about her; and there's a reason for that, isn't it?
Is it a deal breaker for you? Only you can decide.

Anyway, good luck with this.
(This post was last modified: 09-23-2019 12:17 PM by Latan.)
09-23-2019 12:14 PM
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wwtl Offline
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RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
Cons: Lives the "dating relationship" with you and has sex before marriage (with you).

That's pretty much all you need to know. The rest is hamstering around Western degeneracy. I read the term "virgin" in your post, but what do you know about traditional courtship? Ever met a woman for a longer time frame without getting physical with her?

I didn't read anything about marriage in your post. Do you consider having kids out of wedlock?
09-23-2019 12:15 PM
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rcallini Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
(09-23-2019 12:14 PM)Latan Wrote:  Let's just state the obvious :
- 4 isn't the real number. Multiply by 3 (or 5).
- she quickly and without much resistance slept with you, so she did it with other guys (not included in the "official" 4 dudes).
- women are experts at hiding who they are : they can appear as the most innocent beings, when it suits them. So of course you see her that way, even if you know her past.
- you show a bit of hopelessness when you talk about her, something like "I don't think she fits the mother's role, but I'm afraid I won't find any better, so shouldn't I just ignore my core principles and settle for her?"

Other than that, realistically she doesn't appear like a slut to me, but I only see her through your eyes.
As you find her particularly attractive, that's something else which can blind you.
Maybe you should try draining your balls and see what's on your mind then : have the post nut clarity to guide your decisions.

In the end, Follow your gut instinct : you just wrote a little novel about this girl, showing your doubts about her; and there's a reason for that, isn't it?
Is it a deal breaker for you? Only you can decide.

Anyway, good luck with this.

Thanks for the reply, re notches, I fully appreciate what you say and would totally agree ordinarily and have seen this with many previous women and trickle-truth etc. I do believe this is indeed the number and not based on "this one is special" etc. actually from trying to convince myself otherwise! It would be alot easier if I could be convinced of all the things you mention. She's not innocent about her sexual history as I said, she owns it. But I appreciate what you say and will keep bearing it in mind. She is actually great with kids though.

Regarding the hopelessness, I am not looking to make an immediate decision. We happened to spend a very enjoyable week together recently which brought this to the forefront of my mind. And yes, I suppose it is looking at my core principles and trying to achieve them in the modern world vs my required goal in terms of children. I have been searching for the ideal woman to date and am still yet to find her.

Thanks for the tip re: draining balls and gut instinct, I agree.


(09-23-2019 12:15 PM)wwtl Wrote:  Cons: Lives the "dating relationship" with you and has sex before marriage (with you).

That's pretty much all you need to know. The rest is hamstering around Western degeneracy. I read the term "virgin" in your post, but what do you know about traditional courtship? Ever met a woman for a longer time frame without getting physical with her?

I didn't read anything about marriage in your post. Do you consider having kids out of wedlock?

Due to financial and legal risks, yes I do consider having kids out of wedlock. I agree, there is much hamstering in the sense that what is one supposed to do if one desires children and the appropriate women are so scarce. At what point does sacrifice and making the best of a bad situation need to be considered?
(This post was last modified: 09-23-2019 01:16 PM by rcallini.)
09-23-2019 01:11 PM
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Latan
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Post: #5
RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
Women have an instinct to lie in order to protect their images. But that being said, there is a difference between a slut who will ruin your life and a good girl who enjoys love.

Her ability to drop a guy who cheated on her can be looked at two ways:

1) She is not willing to invest in someone who might run off with a new girl at some point.

2) She was looking for a reason to break it off.

I understand the former better, as I have been that cheater most of my life and found that women forgive cheating more when they can convince themselves they see no future in marriage and kids (which is common now days, unfortunately) or that you have issues and need their help.

At 34 you should be able to tell if a woman is lying about being a slut, so I would trust your instinct on this. Women who fuck who love can be sexual camels. Women who fuck for pleasure can not.

If she is conservative in Sweden, its likely that she and her family are in good company. All the horror stories from there usually involve little warpig feminists who no man with any self worth would bang sober. Sweden has a good sized culture of conservative values. They are not anti sex, but would rather not hurt their reputations in having parades of men through their lives.

Persians have a lot of great family values. My experience with their women has been more positive than negative, but there is a certain amount of fire in them. The men can be a different bit to handle. Some very soft and generous, others hard and cheap. Most have a good business sense, but the very successful business men are cut throat and are often seen negatively by the professionals such as doctors. Keep in mind I am going from western Persians here in Vancouver.

If I had to give this a rating, I would rate it an 8/10.
09-23-2019 01:59 PM
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rcallini Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
(09-23-2019 01:59 PM)Laner Wrote:  Women have an instinct to lie in order to protect their images. But that being said, there is a difference between a slut who will ruin your life and a good girl who enjoys love.

Her ability to drop a guy who cheated on her can be looked at two ways:

1) She is not willing to invest in someone who might run off with a new girl at some point.

2) She was looking for a reason to break it off.

I understand the former better, as I have been that cheater most of my life and found that women forgive cheating more when they can convince themselves they see no future in marriage and kids (which is common now days, unfortunately) or that you have issues and need their help.

At 34 you should be able to tell if a woman is lying about being a slut, so I would trust your instinct on this. Women who fuck who love can be sexual camels. Women who fuck for pleasure can not.

If she is conservative in Sweden, its likely that she and her family are in good company. All the horror stories from there usually involve little warpig feminists who no man with any self worth would bang sober. Sweden has a good sized culture of conservative values. They are not anti sex, but would rather not hurt their reputations in having parades of men through their lives.

Persians have a lot of great family values. My experience with their women has been more positive than negative, but there is a certain amount of fire in them. The men can be a different bit to handle. Some very soft and generous, others hard and cheap. Most have a good business sense, but the very successful business men are cut throat and are often seen negatively by the professionals such as doctors. Keep in mind I am going from western Persians here in Vancouver.

If I had to give this a rating, I would rate it an 8/10.

Thanks very much for the reply mate, I really appreciate this and all the input and can take the harsh comments. My gut feeling based on my quite significant experience with women and 10 year red pill journey tells me she is indeed capable of love and is generally been very genuinely loving towards me, hence why I've kept her in the game. She does indeed come from a good family. I don't have a huge amount of doubt that she would make a good LTR actually, I am reasonably sure that she would. My problem is more the pure feeling of disgust when I think of her past (I am quite conservative) and principles of what I consider to be a slut, which she falls into given her past, even if they were boyfriends. This then clearly puts me in a difficult position of not wanting the mother of my children to have been a slut. Which leaves open the only possibility - am I being to harsh on my definition of slut based on all the circumstances of the modern world and her particular nature and story?
09-23-2019 02:14 PM
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wwtl Offline
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RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
(09-23-2019 01:11 PM)rcallini Wrote:  Regarding the hopelessness, I am not looking to make an immediate decision. We happened to spend a very enjoyable week together recently which brought this to the forefront of my mind. And yes, I suppose it is looking at my core principles and trying to achieve them in the modern world vs my required goal in terms of children. I have been searching for the ideal woman to date and am still yet to find her.

Thanks for the tip re: draining balls and gut instinct, I agree.

(09-23-2019 12:15 PM)wwtl Wrote:  Cons: Lives the "dating relationship" with you and has sex before marriage (with you).

That's pretty much all you need to know. The rest is hamstering around Western degeneracy. I read the term "virgin" in your post, but what do you know about traditional courtship? Ever met a woman for a longer time frame without getting physical with her?

I didn't read anything about marriage in your post. Do you consider having kids out of wedlock?

Due to financial and legal risks, yes I do consider having kids out of wedlock. I agree, there is much hamstering in the sense that what is one supposed to do if one desires children and the appropriate women are so scarce. At what point does sacrifice and making the best of a bad situation need to be considered?

The thing is that you're talking about "appropriate women" but never ask the question if you are actually an appropriate man.

With the intention to have children outside marriage you disqualify yourself for 100 % of those marriageable women.
09-23-2019 02:34 PM
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rcallini Offline
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RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
(09-23-2019 02:34 PM)wwtl Wrote:  
(09-23-2019 01:11 PM)rcallini Wrote:  Regarding the hopelessness, I am not looking to make an immediate decision. We happened to spend a very enjoyable week together recently which brought this to the forefront of my mind. And yes, I suppose it is looking at my core principles and trying to achieve them in the modern world vs my required goal in terms of children. I have been searching for the ideal woman to date and am still yet to find her.

Thanks for the tip re: draining balls and gut instinct, I agree.

(09-23-2019 12:15 PM)wwtl Wrote:  Cons: Lives the "dating relationship" with you and has sex before marriage (with you).

That's pretty much all you need to know. The rest is hamstering around Western degeneracy. I read the term "virgin" in your post, but what do you know about traditional courtship? Ever met a woman for a longer time frame without getting physical with her?

I didn't read anything about marriage in your post. Do you consider having kids out of wedlock?

Due to financial and legal risks, yes I do consider having kids out of wedlock. I agree, there is much hamstering in the sense that what is one supposed to do if one desires children and the appropriate women are so scarce. At what point does sacrifice and making the best of a bad situation need to be considered?

The thing is that you're talking about "appropriate women" but never ask the question if you are actually an appropriate man.

With the intention to have children outside marriage you disqualify yourself for 100 % of those marriageable women.

I don't see your logic. I would consider having children outside of marriage specifically because of the risks of having children with a woman who is not classically deemed "marriageable" due to modern society. If I happen to meet a truly marriageable woman then of course I would also consider marriage. They are so few and far between that it seems less and less likely.
09-23-2019 03:06 PM
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velkrum Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
(09-23-2019 11:56 AM)rcallini Wrote:  I am somewhat hardcore on my red pill views on what I want in terms of LTR material for kids

I can't help but think that any man who has "hardcore" red pill views is just one step away from being MGTOW or an extremist.

Red pills are situational tools that may or may not help men when dealing with women. You can hook up with a woman on the first night and she may be the love of your life worthy of commitment and motherhood OR she might make you wait a month and end up being a horrible incompatible person to spend life with.

Guys who consider themselves hardcore due to the codes they follow strike me as socially incompetent and Beta because of their inability to appropriately assess a situation on an individual basis.

Now, rcallini I'm not personally calling you a low value man because I don't know you on a personal level but, socially incompetent men are LOW VALUE MEN.

You mention your girls ability to attract male attention because of her aesthetics as if it were a concerning issue or something to be worried about.

I'm not personally calling you a low value man because I don't know you on a personal level but any guy that feels threatened, jealous or is in constant fear of other men showing interest to his girl is a LOW VALUE MAN.

You state that you replay sexual scenarios in your mind about other men having sex with your girl ?

I'm not personally calling you a low value man because I don't know you on a personal level but, any guy that refuses to accept that a woman is a human being that enjoys sex and has had sex with other men before him is a LOW VALUE MAN.

You say her past is disgusting and you consider her low value because she had sex with other men before you ?? Where does that leave cheaters, murderers and women who destroy mens lives (Is their past disgusting ? are they low value on the same level as a 24 year old girl acting like a 24 year old girl) ??

Now, I'm not personally calling you a low value man because I don't know you on a personal level but, any guy that completely DE-values a human being because she had (EVIL) sex with other men before him is a LOW VALUE MAN.

After reading your unnecessarily long novel I can tell you this:
  • Stop expecting a 24 year GIRL to behave like a 45 year old responsible WOMAN.
  • Stop worrying about things you have ZERO control over.
  • Stop judging a young girl for acting like a young girl.
  • Stop thinking that the number of people ANYONE (man or woman) sleeps with De-values or De-humanizes them in any sort of way.

I personally know plenty of female doctors that have started families and dedicated their lives to helping others but, they had more than 2 notch counts before marrying their husbands (Are they low value?).

Inferior Game + Inferior Genetics = Incel
Superior Game + Inferior Genetics = Incel

Inferior Game + Average Genetics = Friend zone
Superior Game + Average Genetics = Beta Bucks
Inferior Game + Superior Genetics = Alpha
Superior Game + Superior Genetics = Game of Life: now on EASY mode
(This post was last modified: 09-23-2019 03:55 PM by velkrum.)
09-23-2019 03:29 PM
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rcallini Offline
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RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
(09-23-2019 03:29 PM)velkrum Wrote:  
(09-23-2019 11:56 AM)rcallini Wrote:  I am somewhat hardcore on my red pill views on what I want in terms of LTR material for kids

I can't help but think that any man who has "hardcore" red pill views is just one step away from being MGTOW or an extremist.

Red pills are situational tools that may or may not help men when dealing with women. You can hook up with a woman on the first night and she may be the love of your life worthy of commitment and motherhood OR a girl might make you wait a month and she may end up being a horrible incompatible person to spend life with.

Guys who consider themselves hardcore due to the codes they follow strike me as socially incompetent and Beta because of their inability to appropriately assess a situation on an individual basis.

Now, rcallini I'm not personally calling you a low value man because I don't know you on a personal level but, socially incompetent men are LOW VALUE MEN.

You mention your girls ability to attract male attention because of her aesthetics, as if it were a concerning issue or something to be worried about.

I'm not personally calling you a low value man because I don't know you on a personal level but any guy that feels threatened, jealous or is in constant fear of other men showing interest in his girl is a LOW VALUE MAN.

You state that you replay sexual scenarios in your mind about other men having sex with your girl ?

I'm not personally calling you a low value man because I don't know you on a personal level but, any guy that refuses to accept that a woman is a human being that enjoys sex and has had sex with other men before him is a LOW VALUE MAN.

You say her past is disgusting and you consider her low value because she had sex with other men before you ?? Where does that leave cheaters, murderers and women who destroy mens lives (Is their past disgusting ? are they low value on the same level as a 24 year old girl acting like a 24 year old girl) ??

Now, I'm not personally calling you a low value man because I don't know you on a personal level but, any guy that completely DE-values a human being because she had (EVIL) sex with other men before him is a LOW VALUE MAN.

After reading your unnecessarily long novel I can tell you this:
  • Stop expecting a 24 year GIRL to behave like a 45 year old responsible WOMAN.
  • Stop worrying about things you have ZERO control over.
  • Stop judging a young girl for acting like a young girl.
  • Stop thinking that the number of people ANYONE (man or woman) sleeps with De-values or De-humanizes them in any sort of way.

I personally know plenty of female doctors that have started families and dedicated their lives to helping others but, they had more than 2 notch counts before marrying their husbands (Are they low value?).

Thanks for the reply, once again much appreciated and needed for me to hear a different perspective.

Regarding social incompetence, I think that is exactly what I'm doing here is making an ongoing assessment of a girl I have known for a year. I've known this since early on and so I don't see how I'm not assessing on an individual basis.

Regarding attracting male attention. I never said I was worried about this. I said she attracts male attention alot hence she would have alot of opportunities to have sex which could explain simply statistically why she has her past.

Regarding sexual past, I don't think girls who have sex before me are evil human beings, people are free to do what they want. In this case if she had had a couple of boyfriends for a couple of years each I would not have minded at all. The issue here is the nature of the activity in terms of 4 in quick succession, together with the tattoo and relative ease for me to have sex which for me call into question long-term decision making and judgment.

I'm not sure why you say don't judge. Everyone judges based on their own values and beliefs. Someone else may look at her and judge her in a wholly positive light. Some may think this is normal 18-22 year old behaviour, another person may think it is lacking in self-respect. I appreciate your opinion sincerely nonetheless.
09-23-2019 04:01 PM
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SilentOne Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
OP you're complaining about a girl who supposedly has only 4 past partners smh. Going by your story though, let's get real here, she's been with over 10 guys guaranteed. You're not as hardcore on the red pill as you think you are.

I'll give you props for not falling for that brainwashing marriage script. Keep that mentality and you will be way ahead of these drones getting fleeced in divorce court.

The first thing you need to look in any girl is will she respect you and follow your lead. The rest will come naturally if she simply does that.

If you want kids with her, go for it. As long as you fully understand the risks that come with having children. You may not even get to raise them. The courts aren't designed to have stable family homes. Its all about the chaos and family destruction just to make money off the unsuspecting ignorant men.
09-23-2019 04:47 PM
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loremipsum Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
Yeah, that number way is off.

I made a thread roughly two weeks ago about breaking off with my GF due to her past and it's a decision I don't regret.
It sounds like a similar situation to mine, maybe you should check that out.
She was on the surface the most conservative girl I could think of, but her past was very different to the mask she had.

(09-23-2019 12:14 PM)Latan Wrote:  She quickly and without much resistance slept with you, so she did it with other guys (not included in the "official" 4 dudes).
This right here. Don't think it's the first time she was that quick to sleep with someone who was not her boyfriend.

Rebel stage at 18, tattoo... My gut says no, but you should follow your own gut and do what you think is best for you.
One thing I will say though is that the feeling of disgust may not leave easily (if at all).
Been there done that.

Also @Velkrum
Thinking man is a low value for thinking woman isn't wife material for having gotten blasted on by countless guys. That's some male hamsterization that ignores not only the studies on notch count and divorce, but also the majority of the history of the world.
I remember when RSDTyler started saying that and suddenly he made a video where he said you should watch your GF have sex with other guys.
(This post was last modified: 09-24-2019 02:20 AM by loremipsum.)
09-24-2019 01:25 AM
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Bienvenuto Offline
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RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
OP - what is your ethnicity?
09-24-2019 02:27 AM
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rcallini Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
(09-24-2019 01:25 AM)loremipsum Wrote:  Yeah, that number way is off.

I made a thread roughly two weeks ago about breaking off with my GF due to her past and it's a decision I don't regret.
It sounds like a similar situation to mine, maybe you should check that out.
She was on the surface the most conservative girl I could think of, but her past was very different to the mask she had.

(09-23-2019 12:14 PM)Latan Wrote:  She quickly and without much resistance slept with you, so she did it with other guys (not included in the "official" 4 dudes).
This right here. Don't think it's the first time she was that quick to sleep with someone who was not her boyfriend.

Rebel stage at 18, tattoo... My gut says no, but you should follow your own gut and do what you think is best for you.
One thing I will say though is that the feeling of disgust may not leave easily (if at all).
Been there done that.

Also @Velkrum
Thinking man is a low value for thinking woman isn't wife material for having gotten blasted on by countless guys. That's some male hamsterization that ignores not only the studies on notch count and divorce, but also the majority of the history of the world.
I remember when RSDTyler started saying that and suddenly he made a video where he said you should watch your GF have sex with other guys.

Thanks for the input, much appreciated. I read your post and I think you made the right decision and it may well also turn out to be the right decision for me to break it off too, we shall see.

The only thing with this girl is that the guys she's gone out with have been pretty normal guys. Well-educated, from good families, working or studying in professional jobs like medicine, accounting etc. The thing is, when I'm away from her my gut gives me warning signs when I think about her past in my head. But when I'm with her there's no issues at all it's just a chill really good relationship which I really enjoy.

I understand fully yours and everyone's points regarding multiply the real number girls tell you by 3 or 4 etc. and that if she was quick to do this she was quick to do if before etc. The thing is she explained to me with 3 of her bf's it was within 3 months, with her last bf who was also abroad it was similar to me on the 2nd/3rd date. Her view is that between date 1 and 2 was like 2 months having got to know eachother quite well and she felt we were dating each other and therefore comfortable enough to have sex with me. To be fair, when I look back at the messages she was sending me quite alot of I miss you's and kiss emoji's etc. Again, I'm not accepting or believing her 100%, but I'm not totally discounting her view on this at this stage either. I do also remember that after having sex she was very cuddly and affectionate with me and that time was the first time when I left her at the airport that she burst out crying asking, hugging me and asking me to promise I'd come back soon.

She is generally quite open in trying to explain her sexual past with me when I ask her, not in a disgusting way but just from her point of view of what was going on in her mind. She seems to just have a very Swedish style relaxed attitude to enjoying relationships and having sex, but that in itself is an issue for me. The ONS question is the hardest one because again, with all the skepticism in the world that I want to apply to it knowing girls nature, i'm still inclined to believe it, although I am of course going to keep probing and questioning it. I tried unbelievably hard the first night and whilst that of course doesn't rule out her doing it with others, my gut does tell me that she is not an ONS type girl. But that still doesn't help me with how my gut feels about the 4 boyfriends and the thought of making the mother of my children someone who has behaved like that.
(This post was last modified: 09-24-2019 03:55 AM by rcallini.)
09-24-2019 03:30 AM
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rcallini Offline
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RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
(09-24-2019 02:27 AM)Bienvenuto Wrote:  OP - what is your ethnicity?

Indian.
09-24-2019 03:50 AM
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rcallini Offline
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RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
..
(This post was last modified: 09-24-2019 04:32 AM by rcallini.)
09-24-2019 03:56 AM
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Bienvenuto Offline
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RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
(09-24-2019 03:50 AM)rcallini Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 02:27 AM)Bienvenuto Wrote:  OP - what is your ethnicity?

Indian.

Got it.

I dunno mate. As a white Brit I dated a 24 year old Turkish virgin who spent 6 months studying in the UK fending off my advances in bed, never even got a wristie.
Beautiful girl, sweet, amazing body. Kept me secret from her family who she said would have had me killed by order decreed from Istanbul via Green Lanes. (she stayed with a white Brit family homestay and away from London Turks whom she hated)

She went home and has said no-no-no-no-no to the never ending (but only 5-strong) carousel of first cousins offered her in Marriage by her folks - regularly messages me every boring stuck-at-home weekend while she STILL lives with her parents in Istanbul now she is hitting mid-thirties. She went from beautiful to kind of shrivelled up and cross-eyed with a moustache. There needs to be the phrase "No-Cock Stare" for a special kind of unhappiness and distortion in a face.

I used to spray my jizz over the tits of a Greek-Romanian chick who lived in central London. Hot but over a million cocks in her.
She was at a Persian restaurant one night when a guy she was making eyes at happened to have a mum who thought that she was Persian.
He was from a big London-Persian family and together they maintained the pretence that she was Persian because mum would only countenance her son marrying Persian.
In the end he broke it off because he could not vouch for her to his increasingly impatient family.
Married a good Persian girl, bored shitless with her and 'family life', regularly sexting Greek-Romanian-Whore chick and no doubt they still bang every now and then and he still buys her new I-Phones etc.

OP, if you have kids then you are marrying her family as much as her.

From that point of view - you might explain to us your family's take on future brides-to-be AND a little bit more about her family.

It may be that this girl and her family's background integrating into the degenerate globe-homo/ civic-nationalist Scandinavia is actually working in your favour.
09-24-2019 04:35 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
Her past may not the issue here. Ex-Muslim girls tend to be more conservative still.

The issue you are facing her is her coming A) from Sweden - likely full feminist indoctrination B) being Persian and you being from a highly different ethnicity and culture.

Those diffences might compound later on with her family.

You would certainly find more cultural tolerance within Euro-descended chicks and their families than Persians or Muslims. I know some happy marriages of white woman/Indian bloke - almost all of them are with wealthy successful Indian blokes with Alpha-mindset (not looks, but mindset).

It's not impossible, but the odds are likely not in your favor.

Her notch-count here is frankly not that relevant - whether it's 3 or 10.
09-24-2019 05:11 AM
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rcallini Offline
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RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
(09-24-2019 04:35 AM)Bienvenuto Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 03:50 AM)rcallini Wrote:  
(09-24-2019 02:27 AM)Bienvenuto Wrote:  OP - what is your ethnicity?

Indian.

Got it.

I dunno mate. As a white Brit I dated a 24 year old Turkish virgin who spent 6 months studying in the UK fending off my advances in bed, never even got a wristie.
Beautiful girl, sweet, amazing body. Kept me secret from her family who she said would have had me killed by order decreed from Istanbul via Green Lanes. (she stayed with a white Brit family homestay and away from London Turks whom she hated)

She went home and has said no-no-no-no-no to the never ending (but only 5-strong) carousel of first cousins offered her in Marriage by her folks - regularly messages me every boring stuck-at-home weekend while she STILL lives with her parents in Istanbul now she is hitting mid-thirties. She went from beautiful to kind of shrivelled up and cross-eyed with a moustache. There needs to be the phrase "No-Cock Stare" for a special kind of unhappiness and distortion in a face.

I used to spray my jizz over the tits of a Greek-Romanian chick who lived in central London. Hot but over a million cocks in her.
She was at a Persian restaurant one night when a guy she was making eyes at happened to have a mum who thought that she was Persian.
He was from a big London-Persian family and together they maintained the pretence that she was Persian because mum would only countenance her son marrying Persian.
In the end he broke it off because he could not vouch for her to his increasingly impatient family.
Married a good Persian girl, bored shitless with her and 'family life', regularly sexting Greek-Romanian-Whore chick and no doubt they still bang every now and then and he still buys her new I-Phones etc.

OP, if you have kids then you are marrying her family as much as her.

From that point of view - you might explain to us your family's take on future brides-to-be AND a little bit more about her family.

It may be that this girl and her family's background integrating into the degenerate globe-homo/ civic-nationalist Scandinavia is actually working in your favour.

Thank you very much mate, I can't tell you how much this is appreciated to shake these ideas about.

That's what part of me is thinking is that I'm using an imaginary standard of a girl but actually that type of girl may well end up being not what I actually enjoy or want. Here I have a girl very in tune with her body in terms of dance and sexuality but is also of apparent good character day to day so part of me thinks maybe I should just relax in the present and not think too much.

Her family is stable, parents together 25 years. Her Dad is not a massive alpha or beta, fairly in the middle from the sounds of it, although did well to marry her mum who is cute and 10 years younger. Her mum was the one doing the main parenting/imposing strictness. Her sister is 5 years younger just started studying as as nurse. She/her family spend time with her extended family regularly. She has shown me videos of her family gatherings and they looks like close, polite and well-meaning lower-middle class people. No weirdos or crazies as far as I can tell. Her mom has already spoken to me before the first time she flew over to see me and is cool with her seeing me.

My family is upper middle-class/upper class, non-religious. My family is/was quite dysfunctional as a result of my parents bad relationship. They stayed together though and we all muddled through and still make the best to see each other regularly. That said, I/we are reasonably close with my cousins/aunts/uncles etc. But we're not really traditionally Indian, we were all very well educated privately with most of our friends being White British and our parents made a concerted effort to Westernise us such that we don't (unfortunately for me) even speak Hindi. There are no rules or restrictions on behavior or control/influence over life decisions. My sister is married to an English guy, my brother's gf is also English. My parents know I am seeing her and are cool with it.
(This post was last modified: 09-24-2019 06:50 AM by rcallini.)
09-24-2019 06:46 AM
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LatinaLova Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
OP, this girl has genuine feelings for you but you know deep down the admitted 4-notch count is BS. That's why you started this thread.

IMO, if she was able to get a tattoo, she would definitely be able to have casual sex in Sweden. A tattoo is a much bigger deal than casual sex and much harder to deny/hide from her conservative family - that's probably why she got a small one in a discreet spot.

And that's what liberal girls like her do when they have a conservative surrounding (which you are part of): they naturally have to become good liars/occulters. They need to keep being accepted by their loved ones while trying to live the life they wanna live.

She's the liberal kind who has little to no hang-ups with sex as you've experienced first hand.
Also she has high exotic status in Sweden being a cute brunette. She's probably been chased by good looking guys above her league. Why wouldn't she have sex with any of them?
(This post was last modified: 09-24-2019 06:53 AM by LatinaLova.)
09-24-2019 06:52 AM
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rcallini Offline
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RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
(09-24-2019 05:11 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  Her past may not the issue here. Ex-Muslim girls tend to be more conservative still.

The issue you are facing her is her coming A) from Sweden - likely full feminist indoctrination B) being Persian and you being from a highly different ethnicity and culture.

Those diffences might compound later on with her family.

You would certainly find more cultural tolerance within Euro-descended chicks and their families than Persians or Muslims. I know some happy marriages of white woman/Indian bloke - almost all of them are with wealthy successful Indian blokes with Alpha-mindset (not looks, but mindset).

It's not impossible, but the odds are likely not in your favor.

Her notch-count here is frankly not that relevant - whether it's 3 or 10.

i think the family/culture thing is not a problem as she is fairly similar to me in being mainly Western/European with traces of her ancestral culture. The feminist point is something I am monitoring closely. She seems to have enough femininity/heritage to not be challenging, follow my lead mostly and is open to a traditional marriage. But there are times when she parrots out some classic feminist bullshit when she sees something in the news. I normally explain to her the reality but I won't lie she is not a full traditional woman. As I said, monitoring and training her still.
09-24-2019 06:53 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
If the family background is fine, then all her positive virtues outweight other issues. Notch count of 4 is possible even with a tattoo - especially if those 4 were mostly boyfriends and LTRs. She is 24 and wants to get married.

Focus on your career and make enough cash so that she only works part-time for fun later (if at all). I would say that it's as good as it gets in our times. Obviously with enough approaches you can meet a virgin or near-virgin, but that alone does not guarantee success. Virgins may later think about what they missed due to constant media brainwashing and go wild in their 30s after the divorce.

I would say that she is more of a keeper.
09-24-2019 07:35 AM
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rcallini Offline
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RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
(09-24-2019 06:52 AM)LatinaLova Wrote:  OP, this girl has genuine feelings for you but you know deep down the admitted 4-notch count is BS. That's why you started this thread.

IMO, if she was able to get a tattoo, she would definitely be able to have casual sex in Sweden. A tattoo is a much bigger deal than casual sex and much harder to deny/hide from her conservative family - that's probably why she got a small one in a discreet spot.

And that's what liberal girls like her do when they have a conservative surrounding (which you are part of): they naturally have to become good liars/occulters. They need to keep being accepted by their loved ones while trying to live the life they wanna live.

She's the liberal kind who has little to no hang-ups with sex as you've experienced first hand.
Also she has high exotic status in Sweden being a cute brunette. She's probably been chased by good looking guys above her league. Why wouldn't she have sex with any of them?

Thanks for this. I actually don't think deep down the 4 notch count is BS no matter how hard I have tried to convince myself she has had ONS's. My issue is that I am ultra cautious about this type of decision and the 4 notches one after the other/tattoo show a lack of long-term decision judgment and casual attitude to life...Which she also does in other ways, she is a terrible planner, quite disorganized and kind of floats through life skipping and jumping, happy-go-lucky in quite idealistic way. I am the opposite and the mother of my kids needs to be on the ball.

She told her mom about the tattoo straightaway as she knew she would find out eventually. Her mom was of course gave her hell about it and continues to insist she remove it which she says she will when she gets the money to. But it doesn't change the decision-making which is the issue for me. She also says that her parents didn't like her having boyfriends but as she was 18 in Sweden they didn't want to totally ostracize her from normal life, she always told them where she was/when she was coming home etc.

Your point about why wouldn't she have sex etc. I think is the point I am hanging on. You're right, it really is pretty straightforward that she would. My decision I suppose is whether to accept it given the Swedish environment and her liberal nature.
(This post was last modified: 09-24-2019 07:46 AM by rcallini.)
09-24-2019 07:39 AM
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rcallini Offline
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RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
(09-24-2019 07:35 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  If the family background is fine, then all her positive virtues outweight other issues. Notch count of 4 is possible even with a tattoo - especially if those 4 were mostly boyfriends and LTRs. She is 24 and wants to get married.

Focus on your career and make enough cash so that she only works part-time for fun later (if at all). I would say that it's as good as it gets in our times. Obviously with enough approaches you can meet a virgin or near-virgin, but that alone does not guarantee success. Virgins may later think about what they missed due to constant media brainwashing and go wild in their 30s after the divorce.

I would say that she is more of a keeper.

Thank you for this mate. This "as good as it gets" is certainly a big factor going through my mind right now. I suppose there is a certain element of remorse at potentially compromising on my principles and in a sense justifying her past by having and LTR/kids with her. Family background is solid. I will continue to monitor/test and hopefully things will become clearer. Virgin's wanting to explore is also something I'm considering - maybe I shouldn't be so hardcore on a little experience. Thanks again.
09-24-2019 07:44 AM
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wwtl Offline
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RE: Advice please - not sure whether to consider this woman for LTR/kids
(09-23-2019 03:06 PM)rcallini Wrote:  I don't see your logic. I would consider having children outside of marriage specifically because of the risks of having children with a woman who is not classically deemed "marriageable" due to modern society. If I happen to meet a truly marriageable woman then of course I would also consider marriage. They are so few and far between that it seems less and less likely.

The natural law is that you attract what you are yourself.

You say that you would totally change your ways if you happen to meet an 'unicorn' (virgin etc.), but how do you expect to meet someone like this without being one yourself? You were spinning plates, then complain about a woman doing the same.

You call yourself conservative, yet your are fully embracing the urban corporate lifestyle of cohabitation with race-mixed children, which is a recipe for disaster - then blame it on "modern society".

What did you expect?
09-24-2019 07:52 AM
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