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The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #126
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-06-2019 10:03 AM)Graft Wrote:  We never had a figure that was able to make the rounds on major news outlets and preach a logical message. Roosh’s image was too toxic for Fox News, ABC, etc. No matter what truth he spit, he’d always be labeled as “the rape guy” or the “fat shaming guy” or whichever clickbait troll article they wanted to cherry pick.

R

In what world are you living at? THEY WOULD NEVER EVER ALLOW ANY RED PILL MAN TELL HIS STORY! The man could be a mixture between Jesus and Buddha and they would still ban him. This is ridiculous.

The 'sphere is a loose association of men and some like Rollo Tomassi wanted to keep it always out of any politics or society statement in order to reach the widest amount of men.

The is Red Pill Manosphere pure and the media would never ever allow those guys to speak because feminism is the agenda to be pushed.

The knowledge won't be lost and as for central figure - that works only if you have some kind of party with people only being able to join and speak after getting issued their Manosphere card by a central identity. That can simply never happen.

The 'sphere is not a political movement so everyone does what he wants and goes into the subjects he wants to. It's a knowledge collection tool and nothing else.

And even then - you gotta kick out the Game-deniers from any meeting.

Political movements like the Alt-Right however - yeah - that collapsed because every craphead was accepted and talked for them. The European Identitarians are utterly different - you join a political group and are only allowed to talk for them if you are a leader (being anti-migration, staying away from Nazi association, not doing interviews or night-marches based on your own stupid ideas etc.)

However the Manosphere has never been like that and shouldn't be!
10-06-2019 10:36 AM
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Post: #127
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
Vectors shedding light on truth, facts, logic and enabling the discussion of said topics have always existed and will always continue to exist. Its human nature that a minority of people are leaders (innovators) and open to new ideas. *

The only thing that changes is the level and source of suppression of those ideas but the good news is that human nature cant be permanently suppressed and a new crop of truth seekers and leaders is born every day

*Codified thought follows the same pattern that is seen in the integration of new technology into society

Innovators (2.5%)
Early Adopters (13.5%)
Early Majority (34%)
Late Majority (34%)
Laggards (16%)

Sheeple always out number leaders.

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
10-06-2019 11:27 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #128
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-06-2019 11:27 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  *Codified thought follows the same pattern that is seen in the integration of new technology into society

Innovators (2.5%)
Early Adopters (13.5%)
Early Majority (34%)
Late Majority (34%)
Laggards (16%)

Sheeple always out number leaders.

That's the perfect example. We are here between Innovators and Early Adopters.

Early Majority will only come when one country ditches feminism and globo-homoism and starts accepting Red Pill science in psychology, behavioral psychology. Then when the media and entertainment follows through you will get Late Majority and Laggards behind you so that the Blue Pillers will be like die-hard communists left in the sands of history.

But don't expect this to happen anytime soon. A Red Pill society has strong families, strong men and submissive women - the polar opposite of what the globalist elite wants. They will continue to empower women and shit on men. They won't even let you talk in public - they only do it for fake opposition like Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson. Whenever they invite men like Roosh, then it's a hit-job for sure. They would never allow Roosh to talk over some subject - evne the most lukewarm and pro-female 'sphere member would not be allowed to talk in earnest.
10-06-2019 11:35 AM
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Azuma Offline
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Post: #129
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-06-2019 10:03 AM)Graft Wrote:  articles such as “5 reasons to date a girl with an eating disorder,” or “How to Stop Rape” are not palatable to even a minority of the male population.

Agreed, I first discovered ROK about 5 years ago and my blue-pill brain was disgusted and unable to agree with the more radical/sexual articles. It wasn't until I went through liberal college and visited a foreign country that I started seeing what was wrong with the USA for myself. Only then did I somehow find my way back to the 'sphere and haven't looked back.


(10-06-2019 10:36 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  The knowledge won't be lost and as for central figure - that works only if you have some kind of party with people only being able to join and speak after getting issued their Manosphere card by a central identity. That can simply never happen.

I agree with what you've said. However, if it wasn't for Roosh, I probably wouldn't have stuck around the 'sphere for as long as I have. I casually read ROK articles for a long time, but only when I got obsessed with Roosh's books, writing style, and videos did I really start to care about the 'sphere.

Most young men today have either grown up with no father or very blue-pill ones. They, myself included, want a masculine figure to rally under, to believe in. To become the strong, masculine man the rest of the 'sphere is trying to help them become, they need an ideal, a leader. Not to follow forever, but at least long enough for them to start moving in the right direction.
10-06-2019 11:50 AM
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void Offline
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Post: #130
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
Don't understand the hate on Jordan Peterson. The media tries or has tried to slander his image and cornering him to make statements they can use against him. Dude is a Professor/educator first and he doesn't want to be a political figure. He does cash in on his fame, damn well he should before he gets finally fired by his University.
I don't know why he hasn't been fired, e.g. for his video about childless women over 40 being the most miserable people he encounters, yet. That is against the regular propaganda.

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(This post was last modified: 10-06-2019 12:02 PM by void.)
10-06-2019 12:00 PM
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Post: #131
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-06-2019 12:00 PM)void Wrote:  Don't understand the hate on Jordan Peterson. The media tries or has tried to slander his image and cornering him to make statements they can use against him. Dude is a Professor/educator first and he doesn't want to be a political figure. He does cash in on his fame, damn well he should before he gets finally fired by his University.
I don't know why he hasn't been fired, e.g. for his video about childless women over 40 being the most miserable people he encounters, yet. That is against the regular propaganda.

The hate comes from those that are disappointed and resent the fact that JP is only human and not the personal messiah they so desperately yearn for.

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
10-06-2019 12:13 PM
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robreke Offline
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Post: #132
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-05-2019 08:32 PM)Going strong Wrote:  Out of curiosity, what would you say the "Gold Standard of Masculinity" has generally been, throughout History)

I'd say, it has been, during millenaries: having a ten-to-twenty years younger, very pretty, wife who's safely living in your (fully-owned) house and happily raising your beautiful children, while you're protecting the borders of your Native country (by ruthlessly disposing of its enemies and every invader), preferably serving in the military.

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(This post was last modified: 10-06-2019 12:31 PM by robreke.)
10-06-2019 12:22 PM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #133
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-06-2019 12:13 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  
(10-06-2019 12:00 PM)void Wrote:  Don't understand the hate on Jordan Peterson. The media tries or has tried to slander his image and cornering him to make statements they can use against him. Dude is a Professor/educator first and he doesn't want to be a political figure. He does cash in on his fame, damn well he should before he gets finally fired by his University.
I don't know why he hasn't been fired, e.g. for his video about childless women over 40 being the most miserable people he encounters, yet. That is against the regular propaganda.

The hate comes from those that are disappointed and resent the fact that JP is only human and not the personal messiah they so desperately yearn for.

Not to mention coming out of nowhere and earning the big bucks.

“The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents.”

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10-06-2019 12:41 PM
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gework Offline
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Post: #134
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-05-2019 08:32 PM)Going strong Wrote:  Out of curiosity, what would you say the "Gold Standard of Masculinity" has generally been, throughout History)

Someone who leads his followers to a better place.
10-06-2019 12:56 PM
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Solitaire Offline
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Post: #135
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
Wow, this thread has turned into the literary version of Spy Hunter (80s arcade game). I'm having a hard time processing the various directions everyone's taking.

I'm hoping the title isn't true. I'm hoping the movement is evolving instead of dying off. I'm hoping that masculinity in it's true form will make a resurgence, thereby pulling true femininity back into fashion as well.

I thought I'd feel like a dinosaur as I came into my 50s, just because. But there's no way of even pretending to be hip to this cultural insanity in the West. Believe me, though, guys, there are young ladies out there in the world that don't buy into the BS - they want to marry a man who will be the head of the household, who will direct the family properly, and (as another forum member stated months ago) as long as that man keeps his frame strong, she will be that loyal, loving partner. A pair that bonds together and deserve one another.
10-06-2019 04:10 PM
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Post: #136
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
To me the fixation on politics - which I've been guilty of at times - was a sign that too many guys were stuck on the anger/analysis phase. Being conservative in my estimate, by about 2015 everything that needed to be figured out and said had already been figured out and said. So at this point, the hard part came into play - ACTION - and that's where the decline hit. I've said it somewhere else but it bears repeating, given the old names of the sub-forums, a healthy evolution for men and their interests in the manosphere/forum are this...They start in game (usually) and/or travel as they begin to understand the dynamics of men and women. Overtime, you start to get curious of the greater social implications of all this and how it extends into other areas of life. This is where the interest in Everything Else/Politics comes into play. Now, this is the critical juncture, as those that are going to benefit from putting theory into practice should be largely gravitating towards Lifestyle and fitness. You know the game at this point, now you got to figure out the tools to play as best you can. Unfortunately, not everyone makes the jump at this juncture and you get to a point where the manosphere really begins to splinter into a self-improvement/action taking role and one where people just simmer in their anger and disappointment about the world.

On a side note, the moment the term "black pill" came into play I knew trouble was brewing, b/c the mere fact that a separate term exists from "repill" about life realities just highlighted the fact that so many red-pillers really weren't as redpilled as they thought. Redpill is supposed to be truth, blue pill illusion. That's it. Just because one of these truths is more disturbing than guys on here might be willing to acknowledge doesn't make it a separate thing.

Civilize the mind but make savage the body.
10-06-2019 06:39 PM
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Post: #137
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-06-2019 12:13 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  
(10-06-2019 12:00 PM)void Wrote:  Don't understand the hate on Jordan Peterson. The media tries or has tried to slander his image and cornering him to make statements they can use against him. Dude is a Professor/educator first and he doesn't want to be a political figure. He does cash in on his fame, damn well he should before he gets finally fired by his University.
I don't know why he hasn't been fired, e.g. for his video about childless women over 40 being the most miserable people he encounters, yet. That is against the regular propaganda.

The hate comes from those that are disappointed and resent the fact that JP is only human and not the personal messiah they so desperately yearn for.

Actually its much darker than that:
https://www.amazon.com/Jordanetics-Journ...B07JY9XV38


What he advocates is the integration of evil rather than its eradication. And since Carl Jung is one of his inspiration:

Quote: For, as long as Satan is not integrated, the world is not healed and man is not saved. But Satan represents evil, and how can evil be integrated? There is only one possibility: to assimilate it, that is to say, raise it to the level of consciousness. This is done by means of a very complicated symbolic process which is more or less identical with the psychological process of individuation. In alchemy this is called the conjunction of two principles.

—Carl Jung, Memories, Dreams, Reflections (as quoted in Jordanetics)

He also takes inspiration from Aleister Crowley a Satanist that tried to be the most evil man in the world.


He also elevates lying to a moral imperative:
Quote:Because Peterson equates truth with survival, or rather, anything that increases one’s chances of survival, truth is intrinsically subjective. And since there’s no such thing as objective truth, the only thing you can do to be truthful, by which he means increase your chances of survival, is to master the art of the lie. Peterson is qualified to teach you this rule because he has, by nature and philosophy, become a spiritual master of lies. Peterson lies regularly and habitually, and here he presents a rule that does not only allow for lying under limited circumstances, but presents dishonesty as a fundamental ethic.”


This is why Jordan Peterson lacks so much clarity when talking about his ideas.



There is Nick Krauser's review on the book if you are interested:
https://krauserpua.com/2018/12/23/126-jo...ok-review/
10-06-2019 08:32 PM
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Post: #138
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
Peterson is a satanist and a globalist gatekeeper. Genuine threats to the system don’t make $800,000 per month with help from their Hollywood agents. He plays Neo for the camera when he’s actually Agent Smith.

Return Of Kings contributor and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2019 09:21 PM by MichaelWitcoff.)
10-06-2019 09:20 PM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #139
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-06-2019 12:41 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  
(10-06-2019 12:13 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  
(10-06-2019 12:00 PM)void Wrote:  Don't understand the hate on Jordan Peterson. The media tries or has tried to slander his image and cornering him to make statements they can use against him. Dude is a Professor/educator first and he doesn't want to be a political figure. He does cash in on his fame, damn well he should before he gets finally fired by his University.
I don't know why he hasn't been fired, e.g. for his video about childless women over 40 being the most miserable people he encounters, yet. That is against the regular propaganda.

The hate comes from those that are disappointed and resent the fact that JP is only human and not the personal messiah they so desperately yearn for.

Not to mention coming out of nowhere and earning the big bucks.

Yeah, we're all just jealous that Peterson got rich and didn't gear up to lead humanity to heaven's gate.

Laugh3

Nothing to do with him rounding up a new generation of young white men to feed into the grabbler's civnat suicide machine so he could win the award for boomer of the year.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
10-06-2019 09:40 PM
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Post: #140
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-06-2019 12:41 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  
(10-06-2019 12:13 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  
(10-06-2019 12:00 PM)void Wrote:  Don't understand the hate on Jordan Peterson. The media tries or has tried to slander his image and cornering him to make statements they can use against him. Dude is a Professor/educator first and he doesn't want to be a political figure. He does cash in on his fame, damn well he should before he gets finally fired by his University.
I don't know why he hasn't been fired, e.g. for his video about childless women over 40 being the most miserable people he encounters, yet. That is against the regular propaganda.

The hate comes from those that are disappointed and resent the fact that JP is only human and not the personal messiah they so desperately yearn for.

Not to mention coming out of nowhere and earning the big bucks.

Leonard actually summarized it really well.

But here's a longer explanation for the hate:

What I find is that we all have roles to play in society.

These roles can be glimpsed and even put into words by looking at mythological stories.

For example, in the Illiad, Paris has to pick between Aphrodite, Hera, and Athena. What this actually represents is that he has to pick a role to play in life: the lover (Aphrodite), the king/businessman (Hera) or the warrior/hero (Athena).

As we know, he picks Aphrodite.

And we all have to pick a role. People end up screwing themselves over by refusing to pick or just as importantly picking a role and then not playing it well or deciding late to switch teams.

Ironic since Peterson actually talks about this. He mentions how you eventually have to pick a path in life.

There's one role in particular I want to highlight and that is of the shaman/spiritual teacher/guide. The old man in most tales.

Actually a better name for role in this context would be archetype.

The archetype Peterson was embodying was that of the spiritual teacher. And he was great for a while. It's not a coincidence he attracted many young men because he played that archetype to a T.

But then he decided to make serious money off it, make things about him, his diet, and use his fame to leverage his family.

This is when in Greek mythology the gods curse you for disrespect.

Leveraging your position to benefit your family (whether it was his daughter's diet or having his son be his web developer) is not what spiritual teachers do.

If you want to make money, be a businessman.

If you want to be famous, pick a career known for fame.

But if you decide to mix those two with being a spiritual teacher, yeah good luck.

To contrast this, I'll use Star Wars and the Lion King as examples since I watched both very recently. And I'll also compare Peterson to Joseph Campbell, who in fact did play his role well.

In the Lion King, do you see Rafiki (the baboon) making shit about himself? This baboon might have his own issues or be a wounded teacher or whatever defense you can use for Peterson. But note he never brings it up. He knows his place well and he knows it is to show the path to Simba.

Same thing with Obi-wan Kenobi...did you see him trying to promote his family?

I didn't fully understand Roosh' point that Peterson was getting invited to events while Roosh himself was banned.

But it makes sense to me now.

It would be weird as fuck to see old man Kenobi go on the most popular podcasts and shows broadcasted through the Empire.

I'll admit these two examples are a bit cheeky, but take any story you like and imagine the old wise sage acting like Peterson and how ridiculous that would be.

In contrast to Peterson, Joseph Campbell exemplifies how to be a spiritual teacher.

I don't know anything about Campbell's family (besides the fact he had a wife), his diet, his politics, his opinions on climate change (or back in the day the Soviets) or anything else personal.

That's because Campbell understood his role well.

In fact, he cringed hard when they made a movie and book about his life called The Hero's Journey. He was adamant that the focus should be on the (mythological) stories, not himself.

See the difference?

Campbell also never dissuaded his students from anything. He would rather give them a broad spectrum of myths (Biblical and otherwise) to read.

So they could find the one that resonated with them. They could find their own personal myth. And they could forge their own path.

He had a real hands-off approach, and was the embodiment of a spiritual teacher as all he would do is show the way forward. But he never said: "No, you shouldn't do this!"

Peterson on the other hand seems very inclined to tell young people what they should and shouldn't do.

See the difference?

Peterson also abandoned his young followers. See this clip on Rogan where Joe asked for clarification on Peterson's remarks about incels and enforced monogamy:





Note how Peterson explicitly states it's not about the young men, it's about whether it's "bad for the children" or not.

He fundamentally misses the point that it IS about young men. You need these men to get their shit together and as Campbell would say "become vital men" so they can revitalize their societies in turn.

But the way Peterson talked about them in this clip made it clear he sees these young men as cogs in the system rather than important individuals themselves.

Peterson's mistake is that late in his life he decided to jettison his role as teacher and try to be a Hero in his own right. Too late, but classic Boomer narcissism.

Sidenote, if you ever wondered how dumb Joe Rogan is, here's the video clip to see it in action. He literally believes polygamous societies aren't a thing.

In regards to archetypes, it's fascinating because women also screw themselves over by trying to have it all. Besides a tiny minority, most women cannot have both a serious career and a family.

And even then, I'm not entirely convinced the tiny minority gets away scot free. I'm getting more convinced that God/the universe/whatever you want to call it tends to pay you back in very rapid time.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Sheryl Sandberg's husband died not that long after her Lean In book came out.

Peterson really screwed the pooch by trying to have his version of "it all" by trying to play multiple archetypes. His role was that of the teacher.

If he wanted money and fame, he should've picked a different career than that of an academic.

And he fucked it up by trying to still play a Hero's role. He made things about himself, his diet, using his fame to elevate his daughter.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Peterson's wife got cancer and he himself had fallen hard.

I think he turned his back on the role he was to play and he got cursed hard for it.

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10-07-2019 08:13 AM
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Post: #141
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-06-2019 08:32 PM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  What he advocates is the integration of evil rather than its eradication. And since Carl Jung is one of his inspiration:

Quote: For, as long as Satan is not integrated, the world is not healed and man is not saved. But Satan represents evil, and how can evil be integrated? There is only one possibility: to assimilate it, that is to say, raise it to the level of consciousness. This is done by means of a very complicated symbolic process which is more or less identical with the psychological process of individuation. In alchemy this is called the conjunction of two principles.

—Carl Jung, Memories, Dreams, Reflections (as quoted in Jordanetics)

Most people don't understand Carl Jung.

What Jung is saying is that man has the capacity for both good and evil (evil here represented by Satan).

Man is often ignorant of the fact he can be evil.

Individuation is about being aware and bringing to consciousness your own subconscious thoughts, your own darkness, your own capacity for evil.

It's about becoming aware of how badly you can sin. And a bit more explicitly, how badly you actually do sin.

That is what it means to integrate Satan as Jung describes it. Not to actually do Satan's bidding.

I once had a conversation with an old Christian lady who late in life realized she was possessed by Satan.

If you're autistic like Vox, you take it as face value.

If on the other hand you understand the meaning of what she was saying...she was saying she had been a sinner her entire life and didn't realize how she was sinning until she "integrated" Satan into her consciousness, in other words, she became conscious of Satan's presence and was able to save herself.

There are many valid criticisms against Peterson.

Sadly, Vox Day is too dumb to make one.

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10-07-2019 08:28 AM
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Post: #142
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-07-2019 08:13 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  For example, in the Illiad, Paris has to pick between Aphrodite, Hera, and Athena. What this actually represents is that he has to pick a role to play in life: the lover (Aphrodite), the king/businessman (Hera) or the warrior/hero (Athena).

As we know, he picks Aphrodite.
You know if he picked Athena and have gotten the gift of wisdom. He would have acquired all three goddesses for himself.

As through wisdom he can get what Aphrodite and Hera offers too. And the best way to handle such gifts.
10-07-2019 08:45 AM
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Post: #143
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-07-2019 08:45 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  
(10-07-2019 08:13 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  For example, in the Illiad, Paris has to pick between Aphrodite, Hera, and Athena. What this actually represents is that he has to pick a role to play in life: the lover (Aphrodite), the king/businessman (Hera) or the warrior/hero (Athena).

As we know, he picks Aphrodite.
You know if he picked Athena and have gotten the gift of wisdom. He would have acquired all three goddesses for himself.

As through wisdom he can get what Aphrodite and Hera offers too. And the best way to handle such gifts.

Thanks for letting me know. I did not know this. Hahah, learn something new every day.

I do remember thinking it a bit odd that Odysseus in the Odyssey had to spend time with Circe (the nymph version of Aphrodite) and Calypso (the nymph version of Hera), but considering he was a Hero and his patron goddess was Athena, maybe that was Athena's way to acquiring all three.

Not happening. - redbeard in regards to ETH flippening BTC

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10-07-2019 08:57 AM
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Oak Offline
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Post: #144
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-06-2019 12:13 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  The hate comes from those that are disappointed and resent the fact that JP is only human and not the personal messiah they so desperately yearn for.

That might be the case now that his status as a mentally ill boomer is basically a consensus. But it wasn't that long ago that he was a darling of this forum and members who never bought into him were wondering what the hell was happening (notably Leonard and Roosh).

I could walk into any random pub and find a man with more interesting life experiences, greater stories to tell and more interesting ideas than than him. Only clownworld could make a hero out him.

Men are desperate for role models but also don't read anymore or go through any rights of passage, so somehow JP seemed like an exceptional man to them, a personal messiah. Yet he can't even function in life without pills. It was totally bizarre.
10-07-2019 09:32 AM
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Sherman Offline
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Post: #145
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
From my point of view, it's not that the manosphere is declining, it is that it has always been a mass of confusion and it still is. One thing I find remarkable is how quickly capitalism steps in to fulfill a need by giving the people the deception and bullshit they crave. So, instantly a mini industry emerges with clowns like Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson making millions in the new gold rush.

Peterson's telling people to clean up their room actually goes back to EST training and the sixties. One thing that has always irritated me about this "responsibility" rap is that it only caters to one part of the population - pot heads who are irresponsible. But there are also people whose problem is that they are too organized, and the correct message for them would be to not clean up their room. But the shallow one size fits all dribble doesn't allow for careful analysis.

And as for the "game" metaphor, when you are talking to a woman, you are talking to a woman. You aren't playing bingo. So call it "talking to a woman". They are two separate types of acts. The "game" metaphor distorts men's thinking when they forget it's a metaphor and actually believe it as reality. In my opinion, it gets in the way of success. So why use the metaphor? It is a marketing tool for businesses making money.

I don't see how anything serious can develop in a capitalist society, because capitalism specialises in deceiving the mob and giving them what they think they want. In America, you spend most of your time being deceived.

Rico... Sauve....
10-07-2019 09:37 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #146
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-07-2019 09:32 AM)Oak Wrote:  
(10-06-2019 12:13 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  The hate comes from those that are disappointed and resent the fact that JP is only human and not the personal messiah they so desperately yearn for.

That might be the case now that his status as a mentally ill boomer is basically a consensus. But it wasn't that long ago that he was a darling of this forum and members who never bought into him were wondering what the hell was happening (notably Leonard and Roosh).

I could walk into any random pub and find a man with more interesting life experiences, greater stories to tell and more interesting ideas than than him. Only clownworld could make a hero out him.

Men are desperate for role models but also don't read anymore or go through any rights of passage, so somehow JP seemed like an exceptional man to them, a personal messiah. Yet he can't even function in life without pills. It was totally bizarre.

The sad thing is that Peterson's research on the psychology of fatherhood is incredible. As Genghis noted, he failed when he tried to be all things to all men. Personally I think the fame went to his head, he got a few soft-ball interviews and got to thinking there wasn't a topic in the world he couldn't mentally finesse his way through.

A year later he's telling the goyim as much as blacks are underperforming because of poverty but Jews are over-represented in the upper class by 10,000% p/c because their IQ is higher. *chuckles in boomer*

Poor bastard should have stayed in his lane and learned the phrase "that's not in my wheelhouse, ask someone else". Understandable, though. A million gormless soyboys pedestalize you and the pressure on your shoulders to guide them in every facet of life must be enormous.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 10-07-2019 09:55 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
10-07-2019 09:54 AM
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Post: #147
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
Now you're talking, LD, I actually agree with that.

“The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents.”

Carl Jung
10-07-2019 11:35 AM
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questor70 Offline
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Post: #148
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
(10-07-2019 09:37 AM)Sherman Wrote:  I don't see how anything serious can develop in a capitalist society

How are people thronging to 'clean your room' as a mantra any different from you attempting to finger capitalism as the root of all the world's ills? Or how is that different from the other guy who thinks it's diet and only diet? Or how about cultural marxists and their oppressor/oppressed grand unified theory? What do all of these things have in common?

The human brain strives to oversimplify the complexities of reality and the worst part about is is we don't want to acknowledge it. We latch onto a paradigm and then defend it tooth and nail.

You can see this as a problem in others but not yourself. Others are just as self-assured in their model as you are in yours. What makes them wrong and you right?

The metaphor which seems to encapsulate this inability to conceptualize macro-level issues is the blind men and the elephant.

In my mind, the most useful aspects of red pill (or game or manosphere or whatever term you want to use) are those that derive from evolutionary psychology, because that leans on the scientific method and should not be subject to faith or open to selective interpretation.

All human behavior is driven by primal goals. These goals are ultimately amoral. If you want to put this into a religious frame you can (think of original sin). But empirically speaking, it's just nature and instinct.

Most ideology is an attempt to "fix" or "perfect" the imperfect human animal, a species that became mostly frozen at a transitional point of evolution around the time of the neolithic revolution.

Time and time again history has shown that utopia is impossible. What you get instead is a choice of ways of life that always involve tradeoffs. No matter how you slice it, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

The human animal is at heart, neurotic. This is especially true of women, but men too. We have enough self-awareness to know that we're neurotic, and yet we don't have the ability to completely escape this neuroticism. But this neuroticism comes from our duality. I am not a big fan of the trinity of id/ego/superego. I see it more as a duality where id and ego are one. Then you get, as my avatar image suggests, the proverbial angel and devil on your shoulder.

[Image: 285-homer1.jpg?fit=178%2C209&ssl=1]

The integration of "satan" that Jung talks about is like the end of the Enemy Within when Kirk has to come to terms with his light and dark halves.

[Image: images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTTwy0nyLD439PUINIQu...nNzfFSS9qb]

When you are at war with yourself, your life isn't going to go well.

A lot of the criticism of JP I see here is that he's too focused on the individual instead of bashing this or that institution. (Which is unfair because he is at heart a clinical psychologist.) But until people reconcile their inner demons, outer problems will keep cropping up like playing a constant game of whack-a-mole. These outer problems are all ultimately a manifestation of inner ones (Capitalism coming from greed).

In religious terms, think of the 7 deadly sins.

One of the best threads here was the one where game experts shared reflected upon having reached a 100 notches. Invariably they said it was anti-climactic.

The life cycle tends to follow a pattern. When you're young you are in a skilling-up stage. You skill up and acquire the fruits of your labors. These things feel like their own rewards. Then (assuming you're successful) you sit on your throne with a crown rested upon a "troubled brow" like Conan thinking "Is this all that there is?".

[Image: kingconan.jpg]

You become the storyteller while the youngsters proceed to arrogantly burn their hands in the same fires and pursuing fool's gold just like you did on the way up.

But the picture that should emerge for anyone with any perspective is that perfection can never be achieved in this world and that everything involves tradeoffs.
(This post was last modified: 10-07-2019 11:47 AM by questor70.)
10-07-2019 11:43 AM
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Post: #149
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
@Genghis Khan

I think King Solomon is another example too. Once he asked for wisdom he was able to acquire what he wanted. As explained in the book of Eccessiates.
10-07-2019 05:16 PM
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Post: #150
RE: The sun sets on the Age of the Manosphere
@Genghis Khan please write normally spaced paragraphs. Your posts are like regularly spaced rabbit droppings on a typewriter.
10-07-2019 07:15 PM
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