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Is there one true Christian church?
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bucky Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Is there one true Christian church?
(10-05-2019 10:19 PM)wwtl Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 01:13 PM)scorpion Wrote:  In this view, God is not just the creator of the universe but the author of history, and his will is invariably done in all things. In other words, everything that has happened in the history of the world has happened because God either made it happen directly, or he allowed it to happen because it would serve his plan in some way.

With this understanding you can see how the question of the compilation of the Bible being done by men becomes ludicrous. As if the men were exercising their free will undirected by the Holy Spirit!? In other words, the Bible could not have ended up any other way than it did. God's will was done. So when you ask, "What is the New Testament?" I answer flatly: it is the New Testament. The New Testament that God wanted us to have and which we have today. He directed the authorship of the original epistles/gospels through inspiration by the Holy Spirit, he directed their early distribution and preservation, and he directed their ultimate selection and compilation into the New Testament we have today. This was done by the power and the will of God and is just one example of how God directs history toward his desired purposes. This is the concept of Divine Providence.

For my conversion God provided me with a literal translation of the Textus Receptus. One thing I was very concerned about especially before conversion was that I actually have a non-corrupted and complete version of God's word. I didn't want to read some happy daisy advertising flyer depicting Christianity in the best light possible while leaving out or euphemizing the parts I might not like, one which tries to convince me to join and pay for some happy megachurch (you see I didn't really intend to convert at first...)

After a discussion in church yesterday I brought this issue up with the Lord again and He reminded me of my own research two years ago and asked me: Do you think God makes mistakes? Do you seriously believe He is unable to provide you with the exact Bible translation you need(ed)?

Great points, although I suspect that for most members of this forum a literal, correct translation of the Bible would be much less a problem than it would be for the typical "Churchian" as mainstream American churchgoers are sometimes called. I think most guys on this forum would be less likely to squirm uncomfortably at Jesus coming not to bring peace but a sword, women not being permitted to speak in church, men lusting after other men being sinful, and so on.

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10-06-2019 02:10 PM
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Aboulia Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Is there one true Christian church?
(10-05-2019 01:13 PM)scorpion Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 09:33 PM)Aboulia Wrote:  Those books and many others you're referring to were collected, and evaluated and they interpreted them in a specific way by many men. Those that fit properly with the conception of God were included, those that were not, were discarded , and when contentions came up that were threatening to break the unity of the church, the king called an ecumenical synod to resolve the main issues. To reject this, is in essence, taking centuries of collected knowledge about the nature of the world, which people fought and died to maintain, and throwing it to the wayside, because people feel they can interpret a book how they see fit.

I think this is a good example of the Orthodox tendency to elevate the church itself and especially the great saints and patriarchs to a higher level than they deserve. Because what you're asserting here is that it was MEN who decided what would be in the Bible. This is completely antithetical to my understanding and belief not only in God himself, but particularly in the method in which he chose to reveal himself to the great majority of those who would believe in him (the written scriptures).

There is no need for the bad faith understanding of my statement. It's implicit that these men were guided by the Holy Spirit in the quest for truth, for men can do nothing good apart from God. Just as in the scriptures, whenever someone does something right, it generally doesn't include that they were guided by the Holy Spirit at every statement.

Since I need to emphasize this, men didn't decide what qualified as Holy Scripture in the manner of a person that decides what to have for dinner. They decided in a manner according to the truth which exists outside man and, like it or not, they all agreed upon (with the same Holy Spirit, the spirit of truth) the interpretation of the words contained. As I stated in that exact same post you replied to but chose to ignore, a man has no power over what is truth or not, he can only point to what is true, the men compiling the scriptures had no personal self serving influence in the matter.
(10-04-2019 09:33 PM)Aboulia Wrote:  The garments people wear do not make them worthy to declare what is and what is not true, they have no jurisdiction over it, they can only point to where it lies.
10-06-2019 03:27 PM
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Is there one true Christian church?
(10-06-2019 02:10 PM)bucky Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 10:19 PM)wwtl Wrote:  
(10-05-2019 01:13 PM)scorpion Wrote:  In this view, God is not just the creator of the universe but the author of history, and his will is invariably done in all things. In other words, everything that has happened in the history of the world has happened because God either made it happen directly, or he allowed it to happen because it would serve his plan in some way.

With this understanding you can see how the question of the compilation of the Bible being done by men becomes ludicrous. As if the men were exercising their free will undirected by the Holy Spirit!? In other words, the Bible could not have ended up any other way than it did. God's will was done. So when you ask, "What is the New Testament?" I answer flatly: it is the New Testament. The New Testament that God wanted us to have and which we have today. He directed the authorship of the original epistles/gospels through inspiration by the Holy Spirit, he directed their early distribution and preservation, and he directed their ultimate selection and compilation into the New Testament we have today. This was done by the power and the will of God and is just one example of how God directs history toward his desired purposes. This is the concept of Divine Providence.

For my conversion God provided me with a literal translation of the Textus Receptus. One thing I was very concerned about especially before conversion was that I actually have a non-corrupted and complete version of God's word. I didn't want to read some happy daisy advertising flyer depicting Christianity in the best light possible while leaving out or euphemizing the parts I might not like, one which tries to convince me to join and pay for some happy megachurch (you see I didn't really intend to convert at first...)

After a discussion in church yesterday I brought this issue up with the Lord again and He reminded me of my own research two years ago and asked me: Do you think God makes mistakes? Do you seriously believe He is unable to provide you with the exact Bible translation you need(ed)?

Great points, although I suspect that for most members of this forum a literal, correct translation of the Bible would be much less a problem than it would be for the typical "Churchian" as mainstream American churchgoers are sometimes called. I think most guys on this forum would be less likely to squirm uncomfortably at Jesus coming not to bring peace but a sword, women not being permitted to speak in church, men lusting after other men being sinful, and so on.

Indeed, that's exactly where some of my fellow Christians get uncomfortable, when I state that I accept the Bible as truth in the whole and have absolutely no issues with the content of God's word.

In the end it's about not having a "feel good" gospel and instead accepting the fact, that God demands things you might not like, because they are still good.
10-06-2019 03:34 PM
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An0dyne Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Is there one true Christian church?
(10-02-2019 12:13 PM)Augustus_Principe Wrote:  Catholic & Orthodox since they were both were in communion with one another up until the Schism.

By that logic, you could say Catholic and Protestant, too, since they were in Communion up until the Reformation....

bucky Wrote:Can those of you who are more knowledgeable about the scriptures tell me what the scriptural basis is for the belief that there is only one true church? ....

Also, if you believe your church is the only true church, what are the consequences for those who believe in Christ but never eventually convert to it? What about non-Christians who do good works without believing in Christ? Will they burn in hell for all eternity, or something else?

In response to the first question, about one true Church...the Scriptures are clear regarding "One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism." The Church is the new Israel, and the Lord has only One Bride, not many. There are many false Churches (see: Whore of Babylon) who pride themselves in being the Queen, but they are not. That being said, the Church is made up of every tribe, language, people, and nation, and even your institutional churches like Rome and the East acknowledge the incorporation of other religious traditions into the One True Church.

As for the second question about unbelievers, the Lord Himself is quite to the point when He says: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." What of the ignorant remote tribes? They are without excuse, as the Apostle says: "For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

Those who have not heard the Gospel can understand God's existence from nature, and further have the Law written in their hearts, as the Apostle goes on to say:

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one anotherWink In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

It is my firm belief that, if an unbeliever strives to know God, He will reveal Himself to him, as we have seen take place on this forum. We have glimpses of this in the Scriptures, such as the Egyptians who followed the Israelites out of Egypt after the plagues, the prostitute Rehab who was saved from Jericho, the Queen of Sheba who visited Solomon, the people of Nineveh who were saved from destruction through Jonah's preaching, the Magi who came to worship the newborn Christ, and the Ethiopian eunuch who was baptized by St. Philip. God works in ways to bring the truth to unlikely people who earnestly seek Him (as well as those who do not), and His Word will always "accomplish the purpose" for which He sends it.
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2019 04:37 AM by An0dyne.)
10-11-2019 04:35 AM
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Scorpio Rising Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Is there one true Christian church?
I did not read this thread nor do I intend to. I always try to reduce even the most complex down to its essence. "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." You look at the current state of Christianity in general and the Roman Catholic Church in particular and then remain honest with yourself and you are going to have an internal crisis of the highest order. The current reality is just so far separated from the words.
10-12-2019 12:14 PM
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rotekz Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Is there one true Christian church?
I think we can remove the Evangelical Lutheran Church from the list of candidates. Laugh
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10-15-2019 05:02 AM
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loremipsum Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Is there one true Christian church?
It's that cuck face again.

Someone need to remake Ridley Scott's Alien but instead of a xenomorph bursting out of the chest, it's a brain virus causing low T men to do the soy grin.
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2019 06:12 AM by loremipsum.)
10-15-2019 06:11 AM
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Post: #58
RE: Is there one true Christian church?
(10-15-2019 06:11 AM)loremipsum Wrote:  It's that cuck face again.

Someone need to remake Ridley Scott's Alien but instead of a xenomorph bursting out of the chest, it's a brain virus causing low T men to do the soy grin.

I'm not even sure which one is the "pastor" in that photo

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2019 06:15 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
10-15-2019 06:15 AM
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infowarrior1 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Is there one true Christian church?
One looks lesbian. And the other cuckface
10-15-2019 07:27 AM
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