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Is The Joker a psy-op?
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #151
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
(10-15-2019 03:30 PM)Knight of Malta Wrote:  Looks like this thread is full of cringe takes from Boomers who simply don't get it. You either get Joker or you don't.

Fundamentally the movie is about isolation, bitterness, dissatisfaction, alienation. Joker is an expression of what we are feeling at this time. The film is about a straight white male who gets victimized and attacked by society, portrayed sympathetically (at least initially), and it shows how this makes him turn into a nihilistic monster.
...

Watch the trailer for the film again, which has probably gathered more collective hours of viewing than the film itself.





Note the triumphant crescendo as he accepts becoming a sociopathic monster. His painful struggle up those long stairs and his wild and free descent down them into the abyss.

They gave you the whole film and the whole premise before the actual film as even released. It was one of the most watched trailers of all time and solidified how the story arc would be viewed and interpreted.

So watch the trailer again, and again if you have to, before you realise that they are portraying his decent into sociopathic violence as justified and magnificent.

You are being played.

The movie is pornography for impotent rage-aholics and I say that being honest about how much it would have appealed to me as little as 6 months ago.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 10-16-2019 05:18 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
10-16-2019 05:15 AM
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Post: #152
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
< Sure - but it is well done. I can appreciate some old Soviet movies for the cinematography, but obviously I understand the context.

Some guys who feel down on their luck like that guy do like it more and call it a character study. Sure - it may be even one, but they added a few propaganda points - evil rich White men (Thomas Wayne was always portrayed as a good man in the comics forsaking even his company preferring to work as a doctor letting his inherited company be led by other men without any major profit motive - portraying him as a "career doctor" is just stupid. What kind of "career" is that when you are born a billionaire? You would do that kind of job out of pure idealistic passion or interest.)

The movie is deconstructivist because it pulls good men like Thomas Wayne to the gutter, it adds 2 black POC state-issued wise counselors - that is propaganda too, then you have the brave wise black single mother as a romantic interest - again more propaganda point and the single mothers are not maligned in the movie when the black one is highly functional just as his own one is evil (and probably voting for Trump that goy bitch).

And no - it's not akin to SJWs seeing fake agenda everywhere like the feminists seeing phaliic symbols of the patriarchy in baguettes.

It's a deconstructivist movie filled with leftie propaganda and some token nods like the Puerto Rican gang in the beginning (it would in reality be more a black gang in the 1970s of NYC).

Phoenix is a great actor even if he is mentally challanged by now as a vegan, the (((director))) is good as well but clearly has the usual anti-Western anti-goy sentiment portrayed. Taxi driver was free from that - you just don't notice some agenda points any more because of the Captain Marvel sledgehammer method vs the old more insidious one.
10-16-2019 05:37 AM
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CynicalContrarian Offline
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Post: #153
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
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10-16-2019 06:12 AM
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Post: #154
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
I guess I should respond to being cringed at.

I recommend you pull away from the internet drama bubble from time to time, it can provide a useful perspective. There is nothing anti establishment about this movie, it is not frightening any elites. Every large movie release is a product of establishment. All the hype surrounding this movie is marketing. Movies do the controversy as marketing gimmick all the time.

Clinging to movies as a voice to one's identity is stupid. White people idolizing the Joker is little different than when black people fell for Black Panther or the 4chan derps with their V for Vendetta masks. These are movies, you are being marketed to. If you tune out of the polarized culture war madness for a second and recognize the marketing forces at play then you are left with a pretty decent movie. All the criticisms about it as a movie are fair. See it if you want to.

I'm pretty sure everyone here gets it
(This post was last modified: 10-16-2019 11:52 AM by Silver_Tube.)
10-16-2019 11:51 AM
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Post: #155
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
No one is idolizing the Joker. He is such a loser and so crazy that he is impossible to idolize.

I think it's the complete opposite, people need to step away from thinking everything has to be perfect.

The reason Joker sends the left into hysteria is precisely because it is a typical leftist product in the "humanizing a monster", "the person behind the monster" cliche, that the left has used for decades.

Why does the right continue to lose?

Because they refuse to understand the methods of playbook of the left. They refuse to understand this because they're arrogant and think that succeeding more visibly in life than the random leftist, also means that their group ideology is superior. Which it isn't. The left has far superior collective tacticts.

One of them is working to humanize the people who destroy right wing society (thugs, sexual freaks, antifa etc).

What does the average movie goer take away from Joker?

"Could that have been me if those were my circumstances?"

And that plants a seed.

Right wing people can keep losing until they understand how things actually work and what people actually respond to.
10-16-2019 12:25 PM
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Post: #156
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
Only CNN and SJWs go into hysteria over a movie like the Joker. No one wants to emulate the Joker.

The 1994 movie Natural Born killes had actual copycats - young couples going berserk over it, because the characters were somewhat cool. No one wants even to be the Joker because the end-stage of the comics of the crazy but successful criminal mastermind is just not there.
10-16-2019 02:23 PM
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Post: #157
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
Saw it with some friends for the second time tonight, liked it even better than I did the first time. Anyone who disliked Joker is objectively wrong.

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10-17-2019 01:50 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #158
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
(10-17-2019 01:50 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  Saw it with some friends for the second time tonight, liked it even better than I did the first time. Anyone who disliked Joker is objectively wrong.

I'm too worried about Hong Kong to enjoy Joker. Anyone that isn't is objectively Wong.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
10-17-2019 04:17 AM
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Post: #159
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
(10-16-2019 12:25 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  Right wing people can keep losing until they understand how things actually work and what people actually respond to.



People respond to different things. The right operates in a five-dimensional morality while the left operates in a two-dimensional morality (care and fairness).










That's the mistake right wingers make. They don't need to learn "what people actually respond to" but rather what other people respond to.
10-17-2019 07:56 AM
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Post: #160
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
Quote:I'm too worried about Hong Kong to enjoy Joker. Anyone that isn't is objectively Wong.

Laugh2

"And guess what, you might have a feeling that youre destined for something else, and that any day now it will dawn on you, but it will remain that, just a feeling that you use as a crutch to never focus on anything", Beirut.
10-17-2019 08:04 AM
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Aboulia Offline
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Post: #161
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
Haven't seen the movie, although I generally like Jonathan Pageau's breakdown of symbolism in movies, so I thought some might enjoy this, it makes me want to see the movie to be honest.



10-17-2019 07:07 PM
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Post: #162
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
(10-16-2019 05:15 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Note the triumphant crescendo as he accepts becoming a sociopathic monster. His painful struggle up those long stairs and his wild and free descent down them into the abyss.

This quote made me think of The Exorcist, a movie I have not seen or thought of nor seen in 30+ years. It scared the shit out of me, especially as a newly lapsed Catholic/atheist.

The stairs, so I remember, were prominent in the movie. Up were a battle for the priests. Down was a descent into hell. The Jesuit who was the Exorcist tumbled down the stairs. The Catholic priest (non Jesuit, star of movie) who had lost his faith had a split second to take away the demon and also accept his faith in God instead threw himself out of the window and down the stairs.

Joker is crazy enough, and lacks faith enough, and is ego driven enough, to dance down the stairs instead, instead of throwing himself down them to his death? Looking at it like that, I don't think his dancing march down the stairs was a triumph/celebration. That said, I don't know whether I have this right. I am just surprised at what I remember based on this sentence I have quoted, and will watch both movies again.
10-17-2019 09:45 PM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #163
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
The descent is presented as triumphant by the director and perceived as such by the now-insane and utterly degraded Fleck. The audience is prompted to celebrate his descent into madness and violence as a triumphant escape from depression and an unfair society. Many will seek to emulate this on some level. So my final opinion is that this is indeed a psyop prompting disaffected white men (I'm going to stop calling them losers) to fall into a kind of violent isolated degradation where they feel free to lash out, but obviously not at anyone that really matters (which is to say: anyone in power).

How about a film where Fleck finds three or four other guys, starts lifting, eating right, and either turns to God or at worst enters into a brotherhood dedicated to rooting out the real enemies of his people and shooting them instead of an utterly replaceable media puppet?

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that movie to be made. Fight Club was about as close as we're going to get to that.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
10-18-2019 01:25 AM
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Post: #164
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
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10-18-2019 01:50 AM
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Post: #165
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
(10-18-2019 01:25 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  The descent is presented as triumphant by the director and perceived as such by the now-insane and utterly degraded Fleck. The audience is prompted to celebrate his descent into madness and violence as a triumphant escape from depression and an unfair society. Many will seek to emulate this on some level. So my final opinion is that this is indeed a psyop prompting disaffected white men (I'm going to stop calling them losers) to fall into a kind of violent isolated degradation where they feel free to lash out, but obviously not at anyone that really matters (which is to say: anyone in power).

How about a film where Fleck finds three or four other guys, starts lifting, eating right, and either turns to God or at worst enters into a brotherhood dedicated to rooting out the real enemies of his people and shooting them instead of an utterly replaceable media puppet?

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that movie to be made. Fight Club was about as close as we're going to get to that.

With the right preparation, guidance, and fellowship this kind of development will never need to be made into a movie, it will be realized in and of itself.

Fight Club was about halfway there. The men found meaning in their life of which all meaning was robbed from them in a sterile corporate existence where no one could really test their limits or grow. Then they formed project mayhem and actually made a difference in removing power from the soulless entity that was their "society". In the movie the plot was to bomb credit card companies so that the debt record would be erase, freeing everyone, whereas in the book it was a Museum (though not sure what benefit this would be to people unless it was a modern art museum). What Fight Club missed was the part where the goal was almost Hegelian in that it was chaotic, anarcho-primitivism, neo-luddism, and oddly enough a nihilistic version of esoteric spirituality, this kind of combination is not long term planning. After bringing down the house, most men will revert to kill or be killed, and without proper guidance or direction or inclination to form bonds or groups nothing will have been gained.

Joker is a step further away from that in that instead of men finding one another to bond, man instead embraces his madness and his descent and gives in to his weaker side. In the growth of the Joker character it was eventually alluded to that him and Batman suffered similar traumas, we know Bats was his parents murder in cold blood which he had to endure as a child, while Joker's was often shown as either some combination of a botched robbery gone wrong where he fell into a chemical vat at a plant and something to do with him losing his wife and unborn child, but that's beside the point.

The point Joker tries to make is that it could take one bad day to drive the sanest man alive to insanity and madness. The paths diverge where Batman embraced the suffering and projected his guilt and hatred for injustice outwardly by attempting to fix crime and corruption, while the Joker saw it all as a big joke and how all lives were just walking skeletons, toys to be played with. Since the comics were originally created by Jews or with Rabbinic influence I'm not entirely certain if I could root for either path as I know the truth, but this caricatured duality fits into a Hegelian model of Order v. Chaos, the same damn duality we see represented in everything. By shifting the mores of society to root for the Joker, even unintentionally, it will create, in the end, more chaos that is necessary to bring in more order, thus ensuring their continual control over matters of state and commerce.

When you study reality and human interactions, you understand that there is a great deal more than these two flip sides of a coin and that the choices of which path to go often resemble a polyhedral more so than something as dualistic and simple as order and chaos. The problem is that without chaos, the elites could not have their order. Without chaos, there would be no legitimacy for the NWO ad infinitum. This is how they operate, constantly. Like flies to shit, they vomit in order to consume, to keep their pestilence-ridden schema enduring upon humanity's broken back.

Most DC and Marvel comics color this dialectic and bring to to light to plant seeds, to distract, and to rid your mind of your own peoples history, under the guise of entertainment, and entertain it certainly does.

There is only a few groups of humans who have collected their history and have preserved it for thousands of years. The Jews, the Chinese, and the Indians, among a few other known and unknown peoples who have made some modicum of advancement from oblivion. Roosh's own people have a much more rich and interesting history than the Jews, part of the reason why there is eternal enmity between the two. There are a lot more older and far more interesting bloodlines of humanity than any of these comic book tales, and that is what we all should be focusing on, a return to our roots, our genetic memories, our legends, our heroes, our falls, and who is responsible for robbing us of what is ours through our blood.

You can't cheat nature.
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2019 03:15 AM by MusicForThePiano.)
10-18-2019 03:14 AM
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questor70 Offline
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Post: #166
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
(10-16-2019 11:51 AM)Silver_Tube Wrote:  There is nothing anti establishment about this movie

You're wrong. They would not be trying to mobilize against imaginary incel shoot-em-ups if the woke establishment were not bothered by the movie. Todd Phillips made this movie to slap PC-culture in the face, maybe not directly, but certainly through subtext, and this is a big reason why it's cleaning up at the box office. It's what we rarely get anymore from Hollywood, the accidental sleeper hit and a cultural watershed.

Also, the more we find out about this movie the more anomalous it seems.

The fact WB has a wokefest in Birds of Prey waiting to followup Joker is a sign that Joker was sort of an accidental byproduct of WB managerial chaos brought on by the failure of the DCEU and the MeTooing of Kevin Tsujihara.

(10-14-2019 11:35 AM)Aurini Wrote:  People think they're watching a movie about a rebel; they're learning the script of a loser.

You made the mistake of thinking that Joker is meant to be seen as a role-model. He's not. Sympathetic at times, yes, but not a role-model. BTW, the protagonists in Godfather 1 and 2 weren't exactly paragons of virtue either, but they were great movies. I could rattle off many more, Goodfellas, Wolf of Wallstreet, Clockwork Orange, Falling Down, Leaving Las Vegas, etc... Shall I start citing Shakespeare tragedies as well? Richard III perhaps? Not every protagonist has to be a role model for the story to have value.

BTW, would I love to see a traditional sympathetic white male lead who has an active sex life? Yeah. But don't heap those expectations on a movie that never intended to serve that purpose. No one movie can be all things to all people. This movie manages to attack enough sacred cows as it is.

Sometimes I feel like you guys are so attached to iconoclasm that you can't stand the idea that anything subversive could catch on with the normies. It's far more comforting if they just kept flocking to Captain Marvel instead. Well, culture tends to swing like a pendulum. You push it too far and there's a counter-reaction. Joker may be part of a pushback, or at least a harbinger of one. If Birds of Prey flops hard then it will speak volumes.

If culture does flip I suspect some will just find ever more esoteric things to complain about, the equivalent of the once-ubiquitous "pointy elbows" comments attempting to bash HB10s.
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2019 11:14 PM by questor70.)
10-19-2019 10:18 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #167
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
The issue here is not whether the Joker is a bad movie, because objectively it is well done and well shot with an interesting enough story in the vein of previous character studies set in NYC.

Still - it's absolutely a destructivist postmodernist anti-Western movie:





FourthAge is a Youtuber who studied essentially social justice and worked in academia.

Being a comic-book fan he analyzed the ancient myths and also paradigms of the West.

One thing about it is that the West and cultures like Japan are set in a guilt culture vs a shame culture. Guilt culture is when there is an internal moral compass that motivates the people to do right or wrong - so Japanes girls leaving their Iphones in clubs is keepoing them safe less because someone couldn't get away with it but because it's inherently false to steal and enough people uphold those rules. Christianity has changed European morals from pure strength of the Romans into more virtuous chivalric behavior. And that chivalric behavior is created by the moral upbringing of highly virtuous parents in the comics. They did not go into religion so much, but ultimately the heroes of Batman or Superman were also Christian heroes.

A society that is based on shame is more like Islam. There it does not matter whether the wealthy grandfather rapes the daughter of the house - so long as no one knows, then the honor is upheld. You can listen to countelss ex-Muslim stories and see it confirmed.

Now - Joker continues the tradition of anti-Western postmodernists to malign and the deestroy the very foundation of the heroes like Batman. The foundation in the past were the saintly parents - the billionaire-born heir who prefers to literally bloody his hands in a profession that is now being sold as "career doctor" in the movie. The comics did what the movie did years in advance. And the reason is because they want to remove the reason for Batman's virtue from the parents and his upbringing to social justice and "equality".

And for anyone who has missed it - the movie rather points to the fact that Joker is actually the son of Wayne as the little comment of Wayne at the back of a picture of his mom shows. He may have falsified her records and put her in an asylum. So that guy is even more evil than many Batman villains. Depicting her as an incompetent mother is hardly the issue here since down the corridor lives a black saintly single mother and the two social workers/psychologists are saintly (likely single mother) black characters as well.

The movie is less open and sledge-hammer with the programming, but the reality is that it is postmodernist Marxist propaganda after all. I don't mind a few of those movies, but currently it's all we get and the movie destroyed the Batman myths better than Zack Snyder's ideas which wanted Batman to be spitroasted by some Latino gangs in prison. And it's irrelevant as well whether the movie is an 8 out of 10 or is well-done.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2019 05:18 AM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
10-20-2019 05:16 AM
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Post: #168
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
The lineage of Arthur Fleck is deliberately ambiguous, especially considering that the entire film is framed by his unreliable testimony. So it's more sophisticated in the sense that it knows damn well that people will square off in competing interpretations. This is way more sophisticated than Zack Snyder's unambiguous "nobody stays good in this world" brand of nihilism, which relied on the unbelievable "Martha" gimmick to force resolution in Batman v. Superman.

If you want a more idealistic slant on superheroes, look no further than Patty Jenkins' Wonder woman, which in its own way could be seen as a cultural pushback against the idea that to elevate a female hero you must tear down male ones. I didn't see Aquaman or Shazam but they are hardly nihilistic either.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2019 09:48 AM by questor70.)
10-20-2019 09:48 AM
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Post: #169
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?




I thought this was a damn good parody, it reminded me SNL can be funny with out having to resort to "Orange Man Bad" Jokes.
10-20-2019 04:44 PM
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Post: #170
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
(10-06-2019 04:02 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  A dog is a dog and a cat is a cat.

People who cannot present significant evidence to the contrary yet still insist on calling a dog a cat are by definition mentally unwell. This is not "your reality" and "my reality". Reality is precisely what it is [...]

Unfortunately, it can be easily shown your proposition does not hold based on empirical evidence. For example, some people suffer from a perceptual agnosia called achromatopsia or total colour blindness. To them the 'reality' is black-and-white, akin to old monochrome movies. There is a substantial variability among humans and even bigger among when it comes to perceptual modalities. Your (or whoever's) experience of 'reality' is a function of the available senses. Just get back to the time when you had a cold that completely blocked your sinuses and, suddenly, all the food tasted as bland as a cardboard. On the opposite are canine snouts have many millions more scent receptors than us. To them, their 'reality' consists first and foremost of smells, then vision.

Us, humans are clever and we 'enhance' our perception of the very narrow band of electromagnetic spectrum (and of airwaves pressure, mechanical forces, and the like) with microscope, X-ray machines, infrared cameras but we are fundamentally limited by our senses, brains, cognition and bodies. Let me give you another example. Bats have a sense of echolocation and are, essentially blind. Their map of the world and objects in that world is experienced very differently from us - their 'reality' is only theirs.

Yet, another simple argument to buttress my attack. For any two or more humans to experience the same reality, they would have to be invariant carbon-copies of each other, with alike spatiotemporal anatomic alignment and physiological functions, alike life history and occupy exactly the same spacetime (Why does it matter? The light quanta hitting the retina will hit it from a different angle, and the signal cascading down the optic never through superior colliculus and other structures, then finally evaluated in the striate cortex will yield different perceptual experience - ever so slightly but the argument still holds that their 'realities' will not be the same) in the universe. Even if future Super-AI technology would let us make 'true' copies with all memories and experiences, I doubt it could 'double the universe'. Thus, the last argument, about the occupying exactly the same spacetime by two humans, nullifies any possibility of having two humans to experience exactly alike 'reality'. Anyone's reality is their private, subjective experience, and any argument that endeavours to show that two or more humans can share the same reality will be unsatisfiable.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2019 06:09 PM by ksbms.)
10-20-2019 05:55 PM
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Post: #171
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
"Anyone's reality is their private, subjective experience"

True only at a quantum level but not in a way that's meaningful to this discussion. Also, senses != reality in the broadest sense. Take a blind person and drop them off a cliff. Gravity still works regardless of what they see or don't see. Even if you drop someone who is a paraplegic they will still turn into jelly when they hit the ground even if nothing below their cervical vertebrae feels the impact. Therefore the laws of gravity are empirically true. For senses to really create subjective reality you'd have to see two totally different things, not the presence of color or no color but two completely different images, and that doesn't happen outside of delusions. For all intents and purposes we share the same objective reality but that reality is filtered through our senses. So the details may differ slightly but the broad strokes are universal. No different from a bunch of different cameras or microphones recording an event.

The reason why someone like Philip K Dick was fascinated with subjective reality was that he was basically an undiagnosed schizophrenic or Naked Lunch as an outgrowth of William S. Burroughs' drug use. The idea of implanted memories, matrix-like simulations, etc... make for interesting thought experiments but I don't place much credence in them. There's the real world and then there's fantasy/hamsterized memories (ala Rashomon)/mental-masturbation.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2019 07:01 PM by questor70.)
10-20-2019 06:53 PM
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Post: #172
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
(10-20-2019 06:53 PM)questor70 Wrote:  For senses to really create subjective reality you'd have to see two totally different things, not the presence of color or no color but two completely different images, and that doesn't happen outside of delusions. For all intents and purposes we share the same objective reality [...]

You didn't address my arguments. The assumption of 'two totally different' things doesn't refute my argument that any difference makes a difference, however small (though depending on the metric and purposes, for practical reasons differences may be ignored). Espresso and flat white are both coffees but they aren't the same thing, they are different even though they have a lot in common.

I'll give another example. Normally, the image formed on the retina is upside down and two dimensional due to the basic anatomic property of the retina being flat. Yet, our brains reconstruct the information such that we see things not upside down and as three dimensional objects in space. However, there is a simple, called inverted vision experiment in which people where goggles that inverts incoming visual signal upside down. At the beginning, the participants see things upside down but, remarkably, the brain readjust and they see 'normally' again. But which way is the 'real' way? Neither, our brains adapt to the evolutionary pressures to make us efficient in the inhabited world, that's what matters. I think that a simple conclusion follows that seeing things 'normally' and upside down makes for a vastly different subjective experience of how things are.

In respect of the claim that 'we share the same objective reality' this is eminently not true. Theoretically, Einstein's theory of relativity describes time and objects' dilation and constriction. Time dilation, for example, has been empirically proven with satellite experiments, such that depending on the frame of reference and speed, the observer's (atomic) clock ticking will be perceived at a different pace.

The conclusion that follows is that there is 'reality' out there but no human has a 'full, raw access' to it and depending on certain physical phenomena, the experience will be different. You experience and interpret as much of 'reality' as your senses and your brain and body allow to (plus indirectly augmented with instruments, from microscopes to telescopes and other inventions of the future.) Physical constants are onto themselves and our relation to them is another thing.
(This post was last modified: 10-21-2019 08:26 AM by ksbms.)
10-21-2019 08:25 AM
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Post: #173
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
Leonard D Neubache d
I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for [i' Wrote:  
that[/i] movie to be made. Fight Club was about as close as we're going to get to that.


Even then Fight Club cucks out in the end with the narrator falling for some drugged out slag in the end.

I fail to see any media format glorifying true strength and comradre amongst men in self development that stays true to the message of the original beginning of the movie. I mean, in this modern culture it would probably fail though. Too many women control mens balls and too many men give up there reigns of control over their lives..

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10-21-2019 08:29 AM
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Post: #174
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
(10-21-2019 08:25 AM)ksbms Wrote:  ...

Regardless of whether this can be argued as plausible, you must surely understand that on a functional societal level it's all pure wank, right?

I mean, it's as stupid as arguing that you didn't brandish a gun at the club, you brandished a random assembly of atoms no different from an apple or a doormat.

"I mean, just because you call it a gun, your honour..."

Case in point, I could copy paste your post on the end of every thread in the forum and claim that nothing previously discussed has any intrinsic merit or grounding because the definition of every word and concept contained therein is a falsity.

Knock it off. It's garbage intellectual masturbation.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 10-21-2019 08:56 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
10-21-2019 08:54 AM
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Post: #175
RE: Is The Joker a psy-op?
(10-21-2019 08:25 AM)ksbms Wrote:  You didn't address my arguments.

Well, the bottom line is I don't know what you're arguing anymore vis a vis Joker. Joker's perception or subjective interpretation of the film has more to do with psychology than the laws of physics.

(10-21-2019 08:25 AM)ksbms Wrote:  In respect of the claim that 'we share the same objective reality' this is eminently not true.

It IS true in a practical sense. The differences due to quantum or time dilation effects don't bubble up to the point where people can be in the same room and experience two totally different realities. Subjectivity like "is this dress blue" are insignificant here.

(10-21-2019 08:25 AM)ksbms Wrote:  The conclusion that follows is that there is 'reality' out there but no human has a 'full, raw access' to it and depending on certain physical phenomena, the experience will be different.

But not different enough to matter. Even someone like Helen Keller for all intents and purposes lived the same reality as everyone else and could communicate and relate to the rest of us in a way we collectively understand.

But what you seem to be suggesting is that we live entirely different realities where things unfold differently. You step outside and see a car crash, but your neighbor who steps outside experiences no car crash. The car crash is part of one subjective reality and not another. Some sort of parallel universe coexisting. That doesn't happen because the differences in our perception are too trivial. Whether the details of the car crash (like to the color-blind) differ as it filters through our biology or the exact quantum position of every atom involved in the car crash may differ between observer A and B doesn't change the fact that the car crash in fact happened. That's why Schrödinger's cat is a poor model because quantum states only manifest themselves at the molecular level.

The problem is too often people glom onto some of these concepts in an attempt to push some sort of cultish or schizoid theory about reality, which is why I cited Philip K Dick. This is, IMHO, a trick of the mind, sort of like pointing a video camera at its monitor.
(This post was last modified: 10-21-2019 09:14 AM by questor70.)
10-21-2019 09:10 AM
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