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Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
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Kungfu Offline
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Post: #1
Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
Tired of being lazy and stagnant in life so I'm in the process of getting in shape and it's going well. I'm a decent looking guy when thin so I'm looking forward to improving there.

Other areas need big improvement. Minimal friends, no job, no dating life, poor social skills, minimal experience, depression. At this point, dating anyone would be an awkward disaster but the loneliness is killing me.

Was never motivated to find a career because my mentality was that life has no meaning without a woman anyway, so what's the point? I'm trying to hopefully change things now. My biggest motivator would be getting female intimacy, and it would give my life some sort of meaning and perhaps motivate me to go to school, find a job, and work on friends.

I've read game and motivational material for a long time and the general consensus seems to be that you have to get your life in order (finances, mental health improvements, friends, social circle) way before attempting to date. Logically I know that makes perfect sense. Emotionally, it doesn't.

There are tons of women in similar situations who are having the time of their lives. While I don't expect the same luxury, I'm dying for the world to throw me a few crumbs.

While I work on the health stuff, what else can a guy do to increase the chances of meeting a woman who accepts him for who he currently is? I won't pretend to run game because I have none. Have maybe Aspergers-level conversations at best.
10-17-2019 10:32 PM
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Post: #2
RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
How did your first 100 approaches go?

You mention having asbergers, and no game or poor social skills. Normally I'd say to get better with practice. However you sound like you probably have asbergers or are on the autism spectrum. Get diagnosed and get medicated. Finish your first 100 approaches.

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10-17-2019 10:49 PM
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Kungfu Offline
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RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
(10-17-2019 10:49 PM)eradicator Wrote:  How did your first 100 approaches go?

You mention having asbergers, and no game or poor social skills. Normally I'd say to get better with practice. However you sound like you probably have asbergers or are on the autism spectrum. Get diagnosed and get medicated. Finish your first 100 approaches.

Too scared to approach. I don't have autism or aspergers, but I might sound like it. Very awkward.

In this day and age being awkward is a death sentence, so I guess I should improve that before approaching anyone?
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2019 11:00 PM by Kungfu.)
10-17-2019 10:52 PM
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D'Kora Koloth Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
(10-17-2019 10:32 PM)Kungfu Wrote:  My biggest motivator would be getting female intimacy, and it would give my life some sort of meaning and perhaps motivate me to go to school, find a job, and work on friends.

You cannot find meaning in other people. Relying on others is a ticket to disaster because we are all flawed and cannot live up to the fantasy that resides in your mind.

How old are you? (Under 25? 30?)
10-17-2019 11:02 PM
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Kungfu Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
(10-17-2019 11:02 PM)DKora Koloth Wrote:  
(10-17-2019 10:32 PM)Kungfu Wrote:  My biggest motivator would be getting female intimacy, and it would give my life some sort of meaning and perhaps motivate me to go to school, find a job, and work on friends.

You cannot find meaning in other people. Relying on others is a ticket to disaster because we are all flawed and cannot live up to the fantasy that resides in your mind.

I realize that relying on women (or anyone else) for validation is a dead-end but is wanting a tiny amount that flawed? I need just enough to know that life's worth pursuing. The loneliness is pretty bad man.


Quote:How old are you? (Under 25? 30?)

Old enough lol
10-17-2019 11:23 PM
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D'Kora Koloth Offline
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RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
(10-17-2019 11:23 PM)Kungfu Wrote:  I realize that relying on women (or anyone else) for validation is a dead-end but is wanting a tiny amount that flawed? I need just enough to know that life's worth pursuing. The loneliness is pretty bad man.

It's absolutely not flawed. Everyone needs to love and be loved.


Quote:Old enough lol

An awkward, jobless 19 year old is very different than an awkward, jobless 35 year old. Career advice would be different depending on your age too.

Are your Aspergers-level conversation skills an actual mental deficiency or childhood related? What fears go through your mind when/if you approach a woman? Are you able to converse with other men? What about ugly women? Are you able to join mostly male populated activities, like boxing? How out of shape are you? Are you lazy in your hygiene too? Why do you say you have poor social skills? Are you able to read and understand body language? (Most of human communication is non verbal, so if you are awkward, you likely cannot pick up on non verbal cues.)

No need to answer any of the questions here, but perhaps it will give you some starting points for self improvement.
10-17-2019 11:42 PM
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Kungfu Offline
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RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
(10-17-2019 11:42 PM)DKora Koloth Wrote:  An awkward, jobless 19 year old is very different than an awkward, jobless 35 year old. Career advice would be different depending on your age too.

Closer to 35 than to 19.


Quote:Are your Aspergers-level conversation skills an actual mental deficiency or childhood related?

I just don't know what to say to people. Lots of awkward pauses, I'm sure people can sense that there's something off with me. Which makes them feel uncomfortable which then makes me want to avoid them.



Quote:What fears go through your mind when/if you approach a woman?

That I'm weird, awkward, or some other derivative like creepy (which I'm not). And that they'd say something cruel.


Quote:Are you able to converse with other men? What about ugly women?

Not really. I'm guessing that men find me awkward too. I've gotten ridiculed before by both sexes. I'm an easy target for bullies and women obviously sense that too and are cruel about it.


Quote:Are you able to join mostly male populated activities, like boxing?

It's tough socializing with men for the aforementioned reasons. They tend to disrespect me because I don't stand up for myself. I despise the dominance hierarchy.


Quote:How out of shape are you? Are you lazy in your hygiene too?

Bit of a gut but nothing bad. No hygiene issues.


Quote:Why do you say you have poor social skills? Are you able to read and understand body language? (Most of human communication is non verbal, so if you are awkward, you likely cannot pick up on non verbal cues.)

Sometimes I read people very well when I get to watch them interact. Mostly struggle when talking 1 on 1. Mind goes a mile a minute worrying about stuff so it's hard to be present and in the moment.
10-18-2019 12:04 AM
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D'Kora Koloth Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
(10-18-2019 12:04 AM)Kungfu Wrote:  I just don't know what to say to people.

Generally people enjoy talking about themselves. Ask a question and then ask follow ups on the same topic.

Don't:
You: "I like your watch."
Him: "Thank you, it was my grandfathers."
You: "Do you like to watch soccer?"

Do:
You: "I like your watch."
Him: "Thank you, it was my grandfathers."
You: "It must be very sentimental. Do you know the story behind it?"

Your tone of voice will need to be inquisitive, not interrogative. Don't rapid fire questions to avoid what you think are awkward silences. Conversation has ebbs and flows. If you watch Roosh's videos, he has plenty of pauses.

Quote:I've gotten ridiculed before by both sexes. I'm an easy target for bullies

In what sense? How do you hold yourself? I notice most "creepy" men have poor posture, tend to tower over, encroach on the personal space and stare intensely at women. If you have droopy shoulders and a timid, downward gaze, you're inviting bullying, just like a lame gazelle invites a lion.

Quote:I despise the dominance hierarchy.

Unfortunately we live in hierarchies. You probably despise it because you're at the bottom and aren't sure how to make your way up.

Male friendship is integral for men. I'd personally try and start creating bonds with other men before trying with women. Since you're not trying to form a long lasting and physically intimate relationship with men, there's not that stress. Good male friendship can also build your confidence and be your wingmen with approaching women. Having a good circle of male friends as well as some solo hobbies is incredibly important to have when you meet a woman so she doesn't become you be all and end all. (Eg: Oneitis.)

Quote:Mind goes a mile a minute worrying about stuff so it's hard to be present and in the moment.

Don't worry, you're not alone. Everyone has internal struggles and demons they are wrestling with, sometimes much greater than yours. Try and find solace that you are not alone in your anxiety and the woman you're talking with is likely thinking about a variety of things she thinks is wrong with her. (Which you likely don't notice .... so she probably doesn't notice the things you think are wrong with you.)


If you can, try and get a job in sales or customer service, preferably one behind a phone. This way you're forced to interact, but not face to face, you have a goal (sell or solve the customer problem) as well as a hold button. Small talk and general day to day conversations have no real end goal, whereas in a customer service or sales job, there's structure in the call and you have a clear objective to achieve. It's a good starting point and from there you can get comfortable to start bantering, make jokes, and work on your wit.
10-18-2019 01:04 AM
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Eban Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
Have you tried therapy? A decent therapist can help you develop communication skills and deal with depression/loneliness/stress. I was in a similar situation in my early 20s and ended going to therapy which helped. Although, you need to find a good one to work with.

If you want to game and approach women you need to have your emotional health in check. Most of them can sense when something is wrong with a guy.
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2019 01:13 AM by Eban.)
10-18-2019 01:10 AM
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Eban Offline
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RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
Another thing that is not talked about enough on this forum is taking ACTION. If you want to get laid you need to go and proactively pursue women by approaching and making things happen. It is rare that a woman will make it happen.

The same applies to other aspects of life. Nothing changes unless you take ACTION, using your energy.
10-18-2019 01:25 AM
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RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
When I first moved to the city I now live in, I bought and read the book "Jump Start Your Social Life" by Brent Smith. It's basically a manual to hack into pre-existing social circles and groups not as an outsider trying to sneak his way in, but as a new member with relatively quick high value and responsibility (ie, leadership) within that group. I recommend checking it out and trying out some of what it suggests, maybe a couple of the tactics will change your perspective and give you a boost.

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(This post was last modified: 10-18-2019 02:17 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
10-18-2019 02:16 AM
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RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
Kungfu, try and join a Toastmasters club, man. Really good way to improve social skills fast and I think Roosh used to do it to prepare for his speeches.

Explore more hobbies and read more. It’ll give you more stuff to add in conversations.

Romans 8:18-21

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(This post was last modified: 10-18-2019 03:46 AM by Vasily Zaytsev.)
10-18-2019 03:45 AM
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Vladimir Poontang Offline
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RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
(10-17-2019 10:52 PM)Kungfu Wrote:  Too scared to approach. I don't have autism or aspergers, but I might sound like it. Very awkward.

In this day and age being awkward is a death sentence, so I guess I should improve that before approaching anyone?

Girls who work in shops and services have to talk to you. Practice on them.

Get some paper and a pen. Write down as many funny or charming lines as possible that you could say to a girl working in a shop, in various situations. Try to think of as many scenarios as you can where you could say something. Only write down things that you can realistically imagine yourself saying, things that are not out of character for you, so that when they respond, you can interact naturally. If it's a joke or a teasing comment, make sure that it's obvious, so you won't be misunderstood. Don't overthink it, just come up with some lines that you could say to put a smile on a girl's face. Situational comments, comments that are relevant to whatever is going on. They don't have to be super clever things, just amusing lines that you could say.

Then go out and use them. If it's hard to think of things, just go to lots of shops where a girl is serving you, and observe, and then as you walk away, try to think of what you could have said at what moment, what you might have said, and add that to your list.

As you progress, you'll be able to think of more things, and maybe take some risks too.

That's not how we do things in Russia, comrade.

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(This post was last modified: 10-18-2019 05:31 AM by Vladimir Poontang.)
10-18-2019 05:27 AM
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Post: #14
RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
OP - given what you are describing as your background you likely have to develop some fundamental skills before chasing down girls. Basic friendships and social bonds are good for reducing loneliness. Get those skills down before moving onto girlfriends.

Start with a Church, you'll have to have basic interactions with the greeters there. That is lightweight work. For more realistic 1 on 1 conversations, find seniors. There are many ways to volunteer for some kind of senior interaction at a seniors home, church etc if you just look around for them.

Conversations with old people are social skills on easy mode. They love to talk to people and can't hear that well so they have learned to carry on conversations nearly by themselves.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
10-18-2019 06:32 AM
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WombRaider Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
How do you live with no job? You're going to need confidence in order to make progress, and if you aren't self-sufficient, it'll be hard to develop confidence. You should get a job, any job. You'll end up interacting with your co-workers and that might lead to some social activity.

For the moment, I think you'll need to focus on morbidly obese women.
10-18-2019 06:34 AM
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RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
You just got to start punch life back and make things happen. Theres no way around it. Its amazing that we constantly hear the "what is the meaning of life" like it's an age old question. The Greeks already figured it out thousands of years ago which is to live life well. A life well lived is the good life and the good life is the virtuous life.

Like what Womb says it would be smart to start by getting any job. It'll help build competence in your social life. There is nothing more depressing then being a man without a job. Next is hit the gym before you go back to martial arts or try to work a gym schedule in somewhere. Like getting a job it'll give you more competence to get better at your art. Heck you could get a job at the gym and knock out two birds with one stone.

Don't stop developing your mind. Surely there is something that intellectually interests you outside of game and the news? It should be something that requires reading, not watching videos on YouTube and non-fictional.

As you get better at the small stuff you'll gradually get out of your shell and take on a few hobbies.

I wouldn't worry about girls having the time of their lives. That's great they are having "fun" but I'm more concerned with their mothership abilities personally. A woman who is a good cook, now that is impressive. If a party girl likes you they aren't going to give a crap if you don't have a particular "skill." Like with any woman, just about being plain old masculine.

And you be masculine by working from the bottom all the way to the top and learning how to be that along the way. It takes work but worth it and fun.
10-18-2019 07:09 AM
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D'Kora Koloth Offline
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RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
Kungfu, what are your thoughts on street photography? You could pick that up as a way of interacting with people and developing social skills.



10-18-2019 12:10 PM
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RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
Also, ignore every PUA / dating advice channel on YouTube. Most of the prank channel guys have much better game than most "PUAs." For example, if you watch some of Angry Picnic's YouTube videos, you'll see all three basic reactions a woman can have to a normal, funny, charming approach:

1. Polite rejection (she's not interested or not available, but still laughing and in a good mood)
2. Neutral (skeptical but willing to give the guy a chance)
3. Positive (immediately interested, laughing uncontrollably, etc)

If your approaches are calm and funny, you will probably never get a "harsh" reaction from an approach. In fact, getting any kind of strong negative reaction means something was way off in the approach. Simple Pickup also had the right vibe, but I think someone mentioned that they'd recently deleted all their videos. Worth finding if they still exist somewhere just to see how un-serious the whole thing really is.

Of course, all of that is solved by following the recommendations in the book I mentioned earlier, "Jump Start Your Social Life" by Brent Smith, because cold approaches are not a part of that system at all and you'll never have to do one if you follow Brent's advice. Always try to get a holistic view of whoever it is you're learning from; make sure they're normal people with normal lives, if you want to follow in the footsteps of well-balanced people.

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(This post was last modified: 10-18-2019 02:48 PM by MichaelWitcoff.)
10-18-2019 02:36 PM
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Post: #19
RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
Go out, put yourself out there.
Get a job and fuck it up. I even had jobs where I knew that I wouldn't like it. You never know what you will get out.

Try to reframe everything into positive. Got fired from a job? Well, maybe it wasn't going to work out anyways.
Possibly a blessing in disguise.

I have been there too, being depressed. Lying on the bed for days doing nothing, but just eating random shit and even lazy to feed myself. lol. Questioning myself, what's the point in life, etc.

I realized that there is no point in life, we have to make the meaning out of life.

I am going to assume that you are in late 20s or early 30s since you said you are closing to 35 than 19.
It's not too late, but the time is ticking for you to do something here.

You don't seem to open up who you are as a person, but you need to open up so that people can give you advice because advice can depend on where you are in your life.

Have you had any work experience?
What do you find join in?
Do you have any parents? What are their suggestions? Don't you want to live well and spend more quality time with them?

As I get older, one of my motivation is to make so much that I can go on a world cruise with my dad. Another one is making my mom retire and let her have a flower shop, which she always wanted to do...

"Don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner."
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10-18-2019 11:03 PM
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Pangloss Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
I understand your position. I have been there (am still there) and understand that loneliness and isolation can be painful, especially combined with depression.

I tried 'hobbies' - e.g. martial arts, sports and found that I was not addressing the real lack of, and need for, intimacy and validation with other people; the need to be seen and heard by others and to be loved. I wasted a lot of time not addressing core issues such as female companionship. I have put most of my interests on hold now to do this now (as I've pretty much emotionally ground to a halt), even though it's largely too late for me. I suffer/ed from low confidence for far too long time despite (in hindsight) being decent looking, fit, good job etc. though I have some unique physical flaws which lowers my status to some extent.

Here is my plan to address issues with confidence and social skill, which may or may not be for you:

- dancing classes (e.g. Salsa). Forced to interact with different women and loosen up physically.
- public speaking and acting classes
- learn a language in group classes
- speed dating - lots of practice talking to women
- Always go to the point of rejection with women (a lesson I learned from Roosh's book Game). Rejection is nothing compared to the feeling of again failing to ask for a girl's number or for a date, despite the odds of success being very low.
- organise social events (e.g. Meetup.com). Invite people to join you in an activity (whatever interests you), try and see people regularly and then go out with them or meet their friends
- be kind to yourself, be honest about who you are (flaws and all), see the good in yourself and then face the world knowing you are a good person who treats others well. Care for others and they are more likely to care for you. Attempting to understand God and religion is helping here too.
- exercise every day (e.g. weights for 30-40 mins) and have a lower carb diet to lose fat
- my life will be different to most others, I can only make my best effort each day even when things become hard
- speak to a good male therapist you can trust (not necessarily psychologist) who will listen and sympathise with you; be completely honest with them about your issues.

I plan to dedicate 3 nights per week to work on these things, and the others working on creating independent income through small business.

Perhaps you are paralysed by inaction at this point; you need to start creating a positive reinforcing cycle to lift yourself up. Speaking to new people is fun in the right environment, but you need to push for progression to friendships or relationships or it will be unfulfilling.

That's the best I can offer you right now.

Good luck, I hope things improve.
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2019 09:47 AM by Pangloss.)
10-19-2019 09:37 AM
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Kungfu Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
Really appreciate all the advice guys. Knowing that there are people out there willing to interact and offer help warms my heart.
10-19-2019 05:07 PM
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Lovinglife Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
Always set goals and take baby steps everyday.

Your goals:
Friends: I wouldn't bother focusing on this. You will automatically make new friends by going out in the world and working on your goals

Job: Start working on your resume and keep applying for work everyday. If you get rejected (you will 9/10 of the time) apply for more jobs. Keep applying where sooner or later you will get a bite. If you really want to develop your social skills, apply for work where you have to communicate with customers daily. You will master this skill no time and get paid for it. Sales is great cause you learn to sell yourself. I started off in customer service to develop my social skills then moved to sales.

Dating life: I think you need to work on your social skills first. When you fix your internal game up, you will naturally attract people and women. Reading books will help.

Social skills: From now on when you go shopping start a conversation with the checkout chick. Start off small such as "hi." Make eye contact and smile. Next ask "How's work today?" or "How are you?". If you are that scared of women, start talking to men first until you feel more comfortable with your social skills. I would suggest you talk with people that are over 30. People below this age are usually uncomfortable with themselves hence will make you feel uncomfortable and also lack social skills.
Next, ask about a product where these always people on the floor there to help. "Can you tell me more about this product" "I'm looking to buy a new TV and need some help." "What do you recommend." When I want to talk to someone, I usually pick something in the environment.

Depression: if I don't work on my goals everyday and just waste my day, I will feel depressed. Most days I fight myself to go to the gym but I remember how much pain I will feel (mega guilt) if I don't go and flat. I also focus on how I feel afterwards where I ALWAYS feel great! Your mind is usually always negative and making excuses up. Learn to ignore it, work out what you want to do in life and do it! I always go back to reading my procrastination books to get my ass back on track.

I personally buy Kindle books on what I want to develop where if I don't feel confidence, I'll read a book on confidence while I eat during the day. Some of these areas included over the years: self-esteem, confidence, fear, anger, depression, attracting a woman, social skills, charisma, making money, language, procrastination, etc... Kindle is great where whatever I lack on, I read and work on during my day. It always lead to confidence and self-esteen when you master a small goal daily.

I use the app 'Habitbull' where I tick off what I want to do daily. I aim for only 5 minutes every day where 9/10 of the time its a lot longer. Remember, baby steps or it will overwhelm your mind and you won't do it!

Remember that you are in training mode and will fail at first and fuck up just like starting a new job. Once you develop a skill just like walking, it becomes effortless.
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2019 03:51 PM by Lovinglife.)
10-28-2019 03:06 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Not sure where to begin. Help appreciated
I'm sorry to hear you are having such a tough time.. Life really isn't easy..
To just add my two cents on top of what others have already said I found the subreddit "getdisciplined" quite good for advice to get my life on track, especially the most upvoted answer to a post titled "I just don't care about myself" (should be easy to find via google). Making meaningful changes in ones life depends way more on habit creation than motivation itself so trying to create good habits should be a starting point for you I'd advise.
Wish you all the best!
11-01-2019 12:12 PM
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