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Investing International stock / etf account
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Parzival Offline
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International stock / etf account
   


I do investments in stocks and ETF on a monthly level, to have some cash when I will retire later or for whatever reason. For sure better then waste the money of let it lose the value on my bank account.

Unfortunately the German Government want to see us all depend on the state later and hates private investment, not to mention that most Germans are not into that topic. There is a new tax in 2021 that was planned to punish high speed trading and all the stuff that lead to the crash in 2008/09 but at the end it just leaf out everything that was used by the banksters and finally the regular stock / etf private investor get a new tax.

Since I'm already a proud high tax payer in Germany don't want the government to take another take of my money. Money that already get a tax from my salary and now more tax that I invest private to later not depend on government money.

Therefore I look for a bank account that I can manage online, where I can buy my stocks and ETF and where the tax cut is little. I thought about Hong Kong but it can be an issue without a resident there, change of the laws. I'm not sure about a trade account in the US because I do not want that the US government kind of track me down. Maybe I'm wrong.

So do you guys have suggestions for a German / European about stock / etf online accounts? Would be a pleasure to hear about it.
For the interest I work on my own business also that will hopefully make me local independent in a few years - still I feel home in my area in Germany.

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10-18-2019 01:20 PM
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drinkingfromtheseaoflife Offline
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RE: International stock / etf account
Wouldn't the German government still take their share from an offshore account? I don't see how you would avoid that if the account is in your name.
10-19-2019 04:42 PM
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gework Offline
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RE: International stock / etf account
It's probably illegal, though can be stretched more into the grey, to be resident in Germany and push the money abroad. Typically you are liable to pay capital gains and income tax in the country you are resident.

There are a few ways round this:

1) Don't reside in the country in question, live somewhere a bit backward or travel around
2) Create a more convincing shell company, that appears to be real, leave all the money in the company account, buy your stocks etc. via that, let the profits stack up; then when you want to take profit leave Germany and just move what you need to your new country
3) Setup an account offshore and hope it's not found

There is a thread on offshore here.

I go for 1) and 2) together.

For smaller players the main two banks that people look to are CIM Banque, in French-Switzerland and Euro Pacific Bank, in Puerto Rico (which does not fall under the jurisdiction of The Federal Reserve, IRS and US government). Many of the other banks require 6-7 figures in the account at all times. In Hong Kong you can get a company account, but I think that vehicle will cost about $3,000 / year to maintain. There appears to be only one bank in Hong Kong a non-resident can set up a personal account with, which is ICICI Bank. You'll probably also find banks in The Seychelles and Mauritius.

Ideally you'll want to setup in a country that doesn't have a tax exchange treaty with your home country. For Germany, see.

So Switzerland has signed one, but Puerto Rico hasn't. But even half of the requests under these treaties are ignored. By and large most people are able to get away with it and you make it easier by setting up a company. It's expensive for a government to mount a legal inquiry into accounts when a company is involved. Some people chain a few up to make it more difficult and have nominal directors. It would cost $100,000s to attempt to unravel such a vehicle. Whatever you do don't get a personal account.

But the minimum fees, with a company are about $1,500 / year; for the company registration, bank maintenance fees and incoming wire fees. It's also not good to hold euros, as they are already getting hit with negative interest rates.
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2019 08:38 PM by gework.)
10-19-2019 08:29 PM
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Tail Gunner Offline
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Post: #4
RE: International stock / etf account
(10-18-2019 01:20 PM)Parzival Wrote:  I'm not sure about a trade account in the US because I do not want that the US government kind of track me down. Maybe I'm wrong.

The U.S. is the largest tax haven in the world:

Quote:All told, the United States has been playing a hypocritical role—maintaining the extensive secrecy and tax benefits it offers to wealthy foreign tax dodgers, crooks, and kleptocrats, even while insisting that the entire world must help it tax its own citizens.

https://www.the-american-interest.com/20...guess-who/


If you are a sophisticated investor, open an Interactive Brokers account in the U.S. If not, Charles Schwab might be better. It is much more user friendly.

As Gework suggested, if you want to be legal it is best to reside outside of Germany.
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2019 10:59 PM by Tail Gunner.)
10-19-2019 10:57 PM
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gework Offline
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RE: International stock / etf account
(10-19-2019 10:57 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  If you are a sophisticated investor, open an Interactive Brokers account in the U.S.

Have you used Interactive Brokers? MY brokerage recently changed to that and I can't get any stocks/equities to show up in the online trader. The interface is the worst I have ever seen. Previously had SAXO, which had drawbacks, but was at least usable.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2019 05:56 PM by gework.)
10-20-2019 05:55 PM
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Tail Gunner Offline
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Post: #6
RE: International stock / etf account
(10-20-2019 05:55 PM)gework Wrote:  
(10-19-2019 10:57 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  If you are a sophisticated investor, open an Interactive Brokers account in the U.S.

Have you used Interactive Brokers? MY brokerage recently changed to that and I can't get any stocks/equities to show up in the online trader. The interface is the worst I have ever seen. Previously had SAXO, which had drawbacks, but was at least usable.

I use Charles Schwab and I have used a number of other brokerages in the past. I have not used IB, but it is highly rated as a low cost brokerage if you are a sophisticated investor who needs very little customer service guidance. Now that Charles Schwab just eliminated most of their trading fees, perhaps it is a better pick. Their customer service is outstanding. Schwab's StreetSmart Edge platform is also excellent.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2019 06:36 PM by Tail Gunner.)
10-20-2019 06:34 PM
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