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My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
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ArloDash Offline
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My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
I think one of the most common problems that men who travel and live abroad experience is the absence of building a genuine "lifestyle" in a foreign country.

What do I mean by this? I'm glad you've asked.

Most guys who go abroad are doing it exclusively to chase tail.

Fewer decide to stick around for a long time (minimum few years), and even fewer make a full-time lifestyle out of it. This is a shame, because living abroad offers you insane tax advantages and the ability to stack huge amounts of cash even if you're just making a basic Western salary.

Case in point: You can show up scrappy, save $30K a year if you're making $50K, and have $100K in three years. That ain't happening in the USA.


The reality is that it's mostly guys who have a small source of income online, doing a BS job like teaching English that gives you 0 real-world skills or are just burning through a trust fund. These people always have to return home, crawling on their hands and knees, and usually moving back in with Mom and Dad. No thanks. Fail.

The problem that I see the guys who stick around a few years, or attempt to make this into their full-time lifestyle is that they don't actually have much of a "life." This equally applies to me, which is why I find it so interesting.

Case in point: I started dating a new chick who I have to spend some serious time with in order to become intimate with. Nothing wrong with that. It's good.

Now to be fair, I could give a shit about what any girl thinks about my lifestyle. But, this was a reality check for me.

What are my date prospects with a girl you start dating abroad? It's always the three-date model (coffee, drink, apartment for a movie) that has been designed for men who are simply pursuing quantities of casual sex with foreign women. It works, but the fact of the matter is that most guys who are doing things like this are pulling 4's, 5's, some 6's and the occasional 7 doing this.

Let's face it...most guys are full of shit about the quality they're pulling abroad. You may be able to punch slightly above your weight in certain foreign countries, but for the most part, it's maybe just a point or two.

Obviously, you can only go to a bar so many times. on a date.

Of course, the best dates are usually "action" dates where you just bring a girl along with you while you do something fun you already like to do yourself, slowly revealing a piece of your personality to her and bringing her into your world. This is day 1 material. Done it a lot when rooted in a particular area.

But, this really got me thinking...what kind of lifestyle do you really have as the transient traveling guy who changes countries every few months/year.

The answer is: you don't have much of one. Living abroad becomes your personality and your lifestyle in the absence of having something "real."

If you're not a total degenerate who spends your days drinking crappy local beer and hollering at 5's on the street, you likely spend a lot of your time freelancing, working on your revenue streams if they're "passive," going to the gym (hopefully), and chasing decent girls.

When it actually comes time to show off your lifestyle on a fun, action-oriented type of date...what do you have? An AirBnb that's probably kind of nice, maybe a decent bank account balance, a nice body. But what else?

You don't have a dog to talk to the dog park that you can make her coo over. You don't own a car, so there's no going on a road trip. You probably lack ties in the local community, so it's not like you know everybody at the local club where you can snap your fingers and line up a free table.

You're a "traveler." That's it.

Sure, you can always take weekend trips, improvise shit and be witty and think on the fly...but how bizarre is it really to be some rootless, atomized man in a place where you really know very few people on a deep level.

In many ways, the only discerning thing about you is that you live abroad after doing this long enough. This isn't a complaint, but it is a real observation.

Should it come as any surprise that every major content creator who once advocated this lifestyle has returned home? Mike Cernovich has lived back in the USA for years. Victor Pride from Bold and Determined appears to have as well. Roosh appears to be staying in the USA indefinitely as well.

The common thread here is that in each of these cases: nobody established strong ties to a foreign country (at least, I don't think). Whether it be language, real estate, relationships, etc.

In fact, all my favorite content creators did the "trying this country out, trying this country out" in search of something...and never found it. No wonder everybody went back to the USA...it was the only place they had real ties to.

The moral of the story is that I'm starting to see how unsustainable it is to be perpetually changing places, and the only way you are ever going to seriously create a happy life while living abroad is by settling in one area and creating a legitimate life there.

And, let's face it: the only way to gain real status in an area where you get the best treatment is by actually spending time there.

That's not to say that going back to the USA is the move, because it's not at all. But, I am starting to think that the only way you seriously avoid actually going back is by planting yourself somewhere else and having a serious go at integrating into the local culture.

TL/DR: Perpetually traveling abroad is not a recipe for a long term situation that will provide any real satisfaction. You have to choose a place eventually.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2019 02:46 PM by ArloDash.)
10-22-2019 02:40 PM
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TheFinalEpic Offline
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Post: #2
RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
I think most men realize that it's not a sustainable way of living. But, if you're not looking for a long term solution, I see no issue at all with it.

You're likely not going to marry a woman you meet in a city you are going to spend a couple months in. Nor are you going to build the next multinational. But a lot of people are okay with this.

Personally, travel is a way to expand my experience. It is perspective enhancing, it gives me a sense of how small I am, and how bullshit many of my inner programming is. It's a way to create connections with this world as a whole.

The end goal should always be choice.

That means that if you wanted to pick up and move tomorrow, you can. If you like where you're at, you can stay indefinitely. Your finances, health, and lifestyle can be aligned in such a way that permits you this ability.

Maybe you haven't found your spot just yet. Maybe your travel has increased your perspective to show you that 'home' is where you belong.

Travel can be a hedonic pursuit, a way to put pins into a map to 'say you've been there'.

That's not how you should travel. You should become one with the place you are living in, and experience it for all that it is worth.

You should create ties. If I went back to any city I was living in for half a year I could pick up where I left off with most of the people. To me, that's real, genuine, satisfaction.

"Money over bitches, nigga stick to the script." - Jay-Z
They gonna love me for my ambition.
10-22-2019 03:10 PM
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Zenta Offline
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Post: #3
RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
You've hit the nail on the head already that we simply keep jumping and never settle down anywhere. The advice is to try out as many places as possible so you find one you like, but its the same problem that we face in so many aspects of life today that we have OPTIONS everywhere. You like abc about place 1 and xyz about place 2 and hij about place 3 etc etc to the point where you just can't settle down on one option. Maybe you want to to live in asia in a developed area like Japan or Korea but youre on a tight budget and it only makes sense to settle down in more 3rd world options but you don't want to make that compromise so you keep jumping. Or on the same vein you know that you will probably be treated better by locals and the women in a more third world area than you would in xenophobic japan etc etc.

Theres so many factors/ pros & cons/ gains & loss'es etc to consider it can be hard to make a decision to uproot yourself completely then immerse yourself in a culture and place that you decide you will spend the rest of your mortal life in. Its much easier to come back to home as you pointed out where no matter where you go in your homeland, at least you are still home in general. I think its a large leap of faith you have to take actually deciding to settle down in one spot and saying "thats it, I'm done. Its time to rest here".

I have the world map on my wall with the pins in it where I've visited and its the issue I run into, I have much more places that need pins in them before I can make that decision but you also have to say hey, you can't spend your whole life putting pins in a map because at the end of the day you're still avoiding the real decision and just making excuses.
10-22-2019 04:02 PM
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The Catalyst Offline
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RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
I believe the US is better than most countries, especially if you take into account material quality of life. But I think it's worth considering settling down elsewhere foreign if you want.

For me it's a no brainer decision to leave NZ, it sucks in virtually every way.

Edit: Yeah, don't pay attention to FOMO. If you've got something good I think it's worth keeping. The disadvantages of going to somewhere bad are quite big.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2019 04:56 PM by The Catalyst.)
10-22-2019 04:52 PM
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ArloDash Offline
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RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
(10-22-2019 04:52 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  I believe the US is better than most countries, especially if you take into account material quality of life. But I think it's worth considering settling down elsewhere foreign if you want.

For me it's a no brainer decision to leave NZ, it sucks in virtually every way.

Edit: Yeah, don't pay attention to FOMO. If you've got something good I think it's worth keeping. The disadvantages of going to somewhere bad are quite big.

I whole heartedly disagree with you.

Taxes are fucking high. Employment is scarcer than it used to be.

In fact, the only reason I'm abroad is material comfort. I take taxis every day, go to private hospitals, get world class dental care, eat out constantly, live in a beautiful apartment for under $1500 a month.

If I have children abroad, they'll be dual citizens. They will go to the best private schools, have access to the best hospitals, etc.

On top of that...transgender children have now become a thing in the USA. As if we could not get more horrible, we are changing the gender of children.

Seriously, fuck that place. Big time.
10-22-2019 05:03 PM
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Eban Offline
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Post: #6
RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
(10-22-2019 05:03 PM)ArloDash Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 04:52 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  I believe the US is better than most countries, especially if you take into account material quality of life. But I think it's worth considering settling down elsewhere foreign if you want.

For me it's a no brainer decision to leave NZ, it sucks in virtually every way.

Edit: Yeah, don't pay attention to FOMO. If you've got something good I think it's worth keeping. The disadvantages of going to somewhere bad are quite big.

I whole heartedly disagree with you.

Taxes are fucking high. Employment is scarcer than it used to be.

In fact, the only reason I'm abroad is material comfort. I take taxis every day, go to private hospitals, get world class dental care, eat out constantly, live in a beautiful apartment for under $1500 a month.

If I have children abroad, they'll be dual citizens. They will go to the best private schools, have access to the best hospitals, etc.

On top of that...transgender children have now become a thing in the USA. As if we could not get more horrible, we are changing the gender of children.

Seriously, fuck that place. Big time.

I am curious -- how are you supporting yourself abroad? I've been looking for ways to generate sufficient income while traveling but have yet to reach this point.
10-22-2019 05:10 PM
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Bananaman711 Offline
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RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
Excessive traveling leads to burnout and gets old , everyone should do it but eventually you will get bored of new cities that look exactly the same as ones you already visited, especially now in globalized world wherever you go there are virtually identical shopping malls, Starbucks, McDonalds, 7 11, Apple stores, etc

Another thing is travelers dont learn local language and dont integrate into society at all, most of them will use online apps to meet women.
What kind of women they find on these apps? Low hangers category no matter how you look at it, use common sense, if she was easy for you she is/was easy for 100s of other guys.
Generally speaking upper middle class quality women from good families will not associate with with foreigners.
When I think back most girls I have been with overseas come from broken, single parent families or just a slutty girls looking for adventure and I have seen plenty of Western men in SEA wifing up straight up bar bars girl/hooker.
Most guys lie about quality of women they get overseas, very few get legit 7s and above, In Asia almost certainly not, they are so rare therefore in demand
10-22-2019 05:15 PM
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Vladimir Poontang Offline
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RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
For what it's worth, my advice would be :

* Don't travel in order to perpetually prove to yourself that you can get girls. Almost anyone outside of the west can get girls as long as there's nothing fundamentally wrong with them. It's nothing special.

* Think about what kind of culture you'd like to live in for the rest of your life. The kind of place where you can realistically imagine yourself integrating into and functioning and getting whatever you want out of every day life. Think about your personality, the aspects of your current culture that you like, and what you think is missing. Be willing to give up certain things that you're used to, and to adapt to new things. There's always a price to pay for what you want, and the better the prize, the higher the price you may have to pay, in some aspects at least. Bear in mind that once you settle somewhere, it's going to become normal, so all you can do is upgrade normal to better than what you're used to.

* Spend more time in those countries, and less time in others. Have adventures along the way but don't waste time.

* Make a decision, and start settling. Get to know people, be seen, known, liked and trusted. Let people know that you're there to stay and integrate, it will probably open doors. Make male friends. Learn the language (and maybe some slang or local terms), history, current things going on, and the culture. Create a version of yourself that is compatible with the locals while still being the (best aspects of the) you that you're used to being. You're going to change anyway, so you might as well take control of it so that you'll be compatible while true to who you are. It will make you very interesting to people. If you do all that you'll be taken seriously and treated well.

* If you think you're going to want to split your time between that country and wherever you came from, find a way to do that. Think about what you want from each country. Don't demand from a country what it can't give you.

* Try to do it all within a year, maybe two.

That way you won't waste so much time, you won't get jaded, and you'll get what you want. Once you're established you can still travel here and there as and when you like.

That's not how we do things in Russia, comrade.

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(This post was last modified: 10-22-2019 07:00 PM by Vladimir Poontang.)
10-22-2019 06:40 PM
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jcardial Offline
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RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
Long term integration in a country isn't as easy as it looks on paper. I have known 30+ expats who were making more than enough via the internet to establish roots elsewhere and nearly everyone has moved back to their home country or somewhere Western/first world. I'm not saying it is impossible or that there are no upsides, but there are a lot of downsides that are easy to gloss over on the short term.

1) Learning another language to a native level (or near it) is a tall order: you have to be passionate as hell and/or naturally talented to put in the work to plow through the burn out that comes once you have gotten through the basic to intermediate stage of a language. Even if you enjoy it, it's so easy to lose interest after a while and the path of least resistance is seductive (e.g. dating an English speaker and hanging out with expats).

Maybe you could in theory get to a level where you understand your local friends' jokes in a few years of woodshedding like it's a part time job, but in practice an insanely small percentage of guys have actually pulled this off (especially for the more difficult languages). If it's a language like Spanish, you at least have plenty of relatively Western/well produced movies and TV shows to stay interested. Serbian cinema and movies for instance are terrible and the pay off to learning it is access to not that many millions of people (many of which speak English anyway).

2) Quality of life: everything from slow bureaucracy to dog shit grocery stores is manageable for a few years, but becomes a lot harder to put up with on the 5-10 year scale. Most people coming from the US can't handle the third world long term (and I can't blame them). Some "second world" options might work for some but dumpy ass-backwards countries where smoking is still allowed indoors etc get old. It also sucks when you can't easily order what you want online for reasonable prices/delivery times.

3) Third world mentality: There are just less successful people around to learn from and collaborate with (because the smartest ones have left the third world). The overwhelming majority of the smartest people I meet in the third world have left the country or are desperately trying to. Even if you were building a location independent business, there is still tremendous upside to being in a first world country where other intelligent/ambitious/creative people can be accessed and networked with.

It's also way easier to start a second business or income in a wealthy country. I have found that people in wealthier/more educated countries tend to be more interesting and fun to hang out with as well. When language barrier is considered it's a pretty big overall difference.

4) Abandoning family: Another factor that becomes a bigger issue on the 5-10 year scale is spending massively less time with family. If you have relatively cool siblings/parents this is a bigger factor than the opposite extreme. Your family eventually gets elderly and you arguably have a moral obligation to help them out young or old. They invested a ton of time and money in raising you, and moving abroad very long term indubitably lacks loyalty and empathy for a family that is going to need help at some point.

5) The West is moving abroad: Netflix and Instagram along with feminism are infecting most places. The places that aren't affected by it to a very large degree will naturally be the hardest to integrate into.
10-22-2019 07:32 PM
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Alpone Offline
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RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
Seneca said the very same thing: Traveling does nothing to improve a man's character. It's often a way for people to run away from problems they'd rather not face. Being a perpetual tourist is being everywhere but nowhere.

The best situation IMO is to have strong roots in a place, but take trips abroad with people you enjoy spending time with. You get the best of both worlds - adventure, memories, and something rooted to come back to when you're bored with traveling.
10-22-2019 08:20 PM
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SlickyBoy Offline
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RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
(10-22-2019 05:03 PM)ArloDash Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 04:52 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  I believe the US is better than most countries, especially if you take into account material quality of life. But I think it's worth considering settling down elsewhere foreign if you want.

For me it's a no brainer decision to leave NZ, it sucks in virtually every way.

Edit: Yeah, don't pay attention to FOMO. If you've got something good I think it's worth keeping. The disadvantages of going to somewhere bad are quite big.

I whole heartedly disagree with you.

Taxes are fucking high. Employment is scarcer than it used to be.

In fact, the only reason I'm abroad is material comfort. I take taxis every day, go to private hospitals, get world class dental care, eat out constantly, live in a beautiful apartment for under $1500 a month.

If I have children abroad, they'll be dual citizens. They will go to the best private schools, have access to the best hospitals, etc.

On top of that...transgender children have now become a thing in the USA. As if we could not get more horrible, we are changing the gender of children.

Seriously, fuck that place. Big time.

It kills me to agree with the sentiment behind this, but with each passing year it gets easier. America's reaching the point where you either have to be wealthy or poor/dependent upon government handouts to have children while anyone in the middle is getting seriously fucked. Meanwhile, the borders are porous, cheap labor piles into all labor categories and the country slides deeper into serious, permanent trouble. We will never be as high a trust society as we were even a few decades ago.

That said, overseas locales are not always immune. The comment about exporting Netflix, Amazon and other silicon valley trash is solid. It's already apparent how much cultural rot is being exported all over the world every time I see an American flag raised in Hong Kong as some kind of defiant protest. Looks great at first glance, but how many years before they trade it in for a rainbow flag and their kids start "transitioning genders" before they've even reached puberty? It might as well be a white flag of surrender to the Empire of Nothing (apologies to Jack Donovan for stealing his term).

There's still parts of South Africa that are pretty nice too, but sorry guys, screw living in that zombie apocalypse. How many more elections before all the congressmen in the US are just like Ilian Omar? I already don't recognize parts of America anymore as it is - way to go Boomers.

If you can make it work better for less overseas, go for it.

EDIT - when did Mike Cernovich ever live overseas? The only foreign country he's spent significant time in is California.

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(This post was last modified: 10-22-2019 08:59 PM by SlickyBoy.)
10-22-2019 08:40 PM
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Yeah Right Offline
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Post: #12
RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
I'm almost in my mid 30s and a year ago I thought hard about quitting so I could travel for a few months to a year or live/work abroad. I turned it down (besides the fact I have a decent job with good pay and benefits) because it's an illusion and a mirage to think traveling for years can make you satisfied... I think after a long enough time it messes you up. And I only started really doing it after turning 30. The best compromise is find a job that gives you lots of vacation days or loose rules with working at home and take advantage of it. Much easier and more feasible to do.
10-23-2019 12:12 AM
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The Catalyst Offline
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RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
(10-22-2019 07:32 PM)jcardial Wrote:  Long term integration in a country isn't as easy as it looks on paper. I have known 30+ expats who were making more than enough via the internet to establish roots elsewhere and nearly everyone has moved back to their home country or somewhere Western/first world. I'm not saying it is impossible or that there are no upsides, but there are a lot of downsides that are easy to gloss over on the short term.

1) Learning another language to a native level (or near it) is a tall order

2) Quality of life: everything from slow bureaucracy to dog shit grocery stores is manageable for a few years, but becomes a lot harder to put up with on the 5-10 year scale.

3) Third world mentality: There are just less successful people around to learn from and collaborate with (because the smartest ones have left the third world).

4) Abandoning family: Another factor that becomes a bigger issue on the 5-10 year scale is spending massively less time with family.

5) The West is moving abroad: Netflix and Instagram along with feminism are infecting most places. The places that aren't affected by it to a very large degree will naturally be the hardest to integrate into.

Fascinating post and I think I agree.

1) was a lot harder for me than I thought
2, 3 and 4) typically are similar/worse in a country like NZ than Poland. I'm not close with family or Kiwis in general.
5) I think despite the cultural rot, part of the reason I like Poland is how westernised it is. It's like what I imagine the US to be without many of their cultural flaws(excessive self promotion, "fake"ness [smiles, how are you], cucked/excessive feminism).

(10-22-2019 08:20 PM)Alpone Wrote:  Seneca said the very same thing: Traveling does nothing to improve a man's character. It's often a way for people to run away from problems they'd rather not face. Being a perpetual tourist is being everywhere but nowhere.

The best situation IMO is to have strong roots in a place, but take trips abroad with people you enjoy spending time with. You get the best of both worlds - adventure, memories, and something rooted to come back to when you're bored with traveling.

I've come to the same conclusion. People who travel a lot seem really broken. It's not really worth it IMO to go from a good country to a country that's quite a lot worse(what a lot of travellers do). I think some people have a real need for novelty but it doesn't seem worth indulging, as it's not satisfying in the long run.
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2019 12:46 AM by The Catalyst.)
10-23-2019 12:26 AM
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the-dream Offline
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RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
@ The Catalyst - Interesting. What are the positive aspects of Poland that you'd compare to your image of the US?
10-23-2019 02:13 AM
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The Catalyst Offline
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RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
(10-23-2019 02:13 AM)the-dream Wrote:  @ The Catalyst - Interesting. What are the positive aspects of Poland that you'd compare to your image of the US?

I'll try to list them but I might forget something/leave things out.

-Compared to NZ, it's significantly more developed(I heard western Europe was more developed though, so).
-Fun extracurricular activities for children
-Although not to the same extent as Americans, they put a lot of effort into celebrating/special events/holidays
-Intelligent, functional people that are good to work with(not 100% certain on this yet)
-I've heard Warsaw has most of the creature comforts other Western cities have
-I believe Southern US has a very family/hospitality vibe, and I think Poland does this well
-In the Southern US, I've heard from my friends you can make friends very easily going to say dance classes or other meetups/activities(can't 100% confirm as I've never had the time)
-I would imagine it's similarly conservative to conservative US, but compared to say Hungary they are more open to foreigners/immigrants and a minimal amount of multiculturalism(probably worse from a Nationalist POV but hey I'm a foreigner). From what I can tell multiculturalism is bad in western Europe so at least it hasn't gotten to that level.
-Lots of themeparks, waterparks, stuff to do on holiday(less so than the US I think, but still quite good).
-Initial impressions, there is hope for young people to get ahead in life
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2019 02:27 AM by The Catalyst.)
10-23-2019 02:26 AM
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aeroektar Offline
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Post: #16
RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
I think the west exporting the silicone valley cancer is going to end sooner rather then later. I don't think the people in charge of this stuff in foreign nations are aware of the level of degenerate brainwashing that gets pumped out to their citizens via Netflix, Instagram, youtube etc. These things are all tools to infect the world with leftist globohomo rot, and as the world becomes more nationalistic hopefully we see a trend of countries banning this shit.

Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe the majority of the worlds leaders are corrupt, those who aren't will be replaced by CIA operatives, and this is the beginning of the one world satanic government.

I don't know what to truly think about the future anymore. I just don't want to live somewhere where state sanctioned child mutilation/sacrifice is taking place.
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2019 03:22 AM by aeroektar.)
10-23-2019 03:18 AM
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SomeOneSomeWhere Offline
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Post: #17
RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
It's just another meme marketed by globalists who rub their shekel grubbing hands in the background, happy that another goy who could be a threat to them is out of the way. (college educated + above average intelligence)

Look who profits:

English school chains in foreign countries operated by globalists which cranks up diversity as well. White English teachers don't go around and rape and murder people but they still help to dilute the local culture until the brown people are shipped in to destroy it in case of Japan and South Korea.

4 hour work week stuff: The number of small online businesses where people actually make a living is small. Most people turn to Upwork which recently had it's IPO. Globalists using Upwork get cheap educated labor without benefits or responsibilities (no holidays, no health insurance, can be fired tomorrow) and Upwork also run by globalists gets their 10% share as well from people's labor.

These whites usually mix with a foreign women popping out another mixed race rootless kid and / or get financially ruined / murdered by locals when it comes to South East Asia.

These are the very people that could drive change in their homecountries and the globalists know it...

Behind every meme trend there is a globalist profiting...
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2019 03:53 AM by SomeOneSomeWhere.)
10-23-2019 03:52 AM
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Obermarschall Offline
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Post: #18
RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
(10-22-2019 05:15 PM)Bananaman711 Wrote:  Another thing is travelers dont learn local language and dont integrate into society at all, most of them will use online apps to meet women.

You can turn this into a hobby, why not learn for few months a language that brings you to several countries a bit further. Spanish can work wonders, as can Russian, as can German etc. On the plus side if you pair this with networking in let's say Chamber of Commerce it can perhaps help you if you know what you are doing or why you are doing it.

(10-22-2019 05:10 PM)Eban Wrote:  I am curious -- how are you supporting yourself abroad? I've been looking for ways to generate sufficient income while traveling but have yet to reach this point.

There are several ways to do it. Don't just think that only English teachers do this. There are day-/swing traders of FOREX or crypto markets who can support themselves. Other people manage to do copywriting, some others are working as online customer support, others as chat moderators, etc. It takes time to find certain niches and it took me also a lot of time. But after one year you will be able to get around 1000€ minimum and can start travelling+working.



Yes, third world mentalitiy can be 'bad' but look at it from another perspective, sometimes people are less stressful and it can help you too. If you enjoy history as me, there is ALWAYS something you can learn about, just of a building or so. You just have to keep your eyes open AND be comfortable being alone.
10-23-2019 05:28 AM
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ArloDash Offline
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Post: #19
RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
(10-22-2019 05:10 PM)Eban Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 05:03 PM)ArloDash Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 04:52 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  I believe the US is better than most countries, especially if you take into account material quality of life. But I think it's worth considering settling down elsewhere foreign if you want.

For me it's a no brainer decision to leave NZ, it sucks in virtually every way.

Edit: Yeah, don't pay attention to FOMO. If you've got something good I think it's worth keeping. The disadvantages of going to somewhere bad are quite big.

I whole heartedly disagree with you.

Taxes are fucking high. Employment is scarcer than it used to be.

In fact, the only reason I'm abroad is material comfort. I take taxis every day, go to private hospitals, get world class dental care, eat out constantly, live in a beautiful apartment for under $1500 a month.

If I have children abroad, they'll be dual citizens. They will go to the best private schools, have access to the best hospitals, etc.

On top of that...transgender children have now become a thing in the USA. As if we could not get more horrible, we are changing the gender of children.

Seriously, fuck that place. Big time.

I am curious -- how are you supporting yourself abroad? I've been looking for ways to generate sufficient income while traveling but have yet to reach this point.

I'm a freelancer in a very niche field of writing and composition. I have a few passive income streams I'm tending to as well. I'd guess I'm top 1% in my specific field, possibly higher.

It's somewhat seasonal too, whenever our clients have busy periods coming up they need work for. Some days I work 10 hours, others I work 1 or spend my time doing something else.

From here I'm now looking to outsource a large quantity of my work, chase down more leads and graduate myself to managing others to do the work for me. This would increase my earning capacity significantly.

That's really the only way you graduate from freelancing. Otherwise, you fall into the "freelancer trap."

I don't suggest chasing down work from Upwork if you're doing it yourself, btw.
10-23-2019 10:25 AM
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ArloDash Offline
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Post: #20
RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
(10-22-2019 08:40 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 05:03 PM)ArloDash Wrote:  
(10-22-2019 04:52 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  I believe the US is better than most countries, especially if you take into account material quality of life. But I think it's worth considering settling down elsewhere foreign if you want.

For me it's a no brainer decision to leave NZ, it sucks in virtually every way.

Edit: Yeah, don't pay attention to FOMO. If you've got something good I think it's worth keeping. The disadvantages of going to somewhere bad are quite big.

I whole heartedly disagree with you.

Taxes are fucking high. Employment is scarcer than it used to be.

In fact, the only reason I'm abroad is material comfort. I take taxis every day, go to private hospitals, get world class dental care, eat out constantly, live in a beautiful apartment for under $1500 a month.

If I have children abroad, they'll be dual citizens. They will go to the best private schools, have access to the best hospitals, etc.

On top of that...transgender children have now become a thing in the USA. As if we could not get more horrible, we are changing the gender of children.

Seriously, fuck that place. Big time.

It kills me to agree with the sentiment behind this, but with each passing year it gets easier. America's reaching the point where you either have to be wealthy or poor/dependent upon government handouts to have children while anyone in the middle is getting seriously fucked. Meanwhile, the borders are porous, cheap labor piles into all labor categories and the country slides deeper into serious, permanent trouble. We will never be as high a trust society as we were even a few decades ago.

That said, overseas locales are not always immune. The comment about exporting Netflix, Amazon and other silicon valley trash is solid. It's already apparent how much cultural rot is being exported all over the world every time I see an American flag raised in Hong Kong as some kind of defiant protest. Looks great at first glance, but how many years before they trade it in for a rainbow flag and their kids start "transitioning genders" before they've even reached puberty? It might as well be a white flag of surrender to the Empire of Nothing (apologies to Jack Donovan for stealing his term).

There's still parts of South Africa that are pretty nice too, but sorry guys, screw living in that zombie apocalypse. How many more elections before all the congressmen in the US are just like Ilian Omar? I already don't recognize parts of America anymore as it is - way to go Boomers.

If you can make it work better for less overseas, go for it.

EDIT - when did Mike Cernovich ever live overseas? The only foreign country he's spent significant time in is California.

Yeah, I hate for this to echo any defeatist sentiments because it's 100% possible to make a nice life for yourself in the USA if you work hard.

I could go get a corporate position right now, start climbing the ladder and make 6 figures within a few years.

The problem is, making six figures in the USA is not exactly better than making half that in a developing country. In fact, I'd say it's probably worse.

The best reason to stay abroad is fiscal.

Plus, if you can ride the development of the country up, that's a good thing. IE: You purchase real estate that appreciates hugely, you get citizenship while it's still easy to do so, etc.

Socially, yes I do worry about Westernization getting exported to these places. I 100% agree with Roosh's sentiment about cultural collapse theory and how it's being exported to EE.

But, there's nothing you can do about that. Fighting it is futile. You just have to make the best of what you have.

I first discovered Mike through B&D and they were all living in Vietnam at the time. He regularly says that the biggest mistake he ever made was going back to the USA and getting involved in politics. He advocates for young men to move to Chang-Mai and start building their life up from there instead of going to college anymore.
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2019 10:32 AM by ArloDash.)
10-23-2019 10:30 AM
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ArloDash Offline
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Post: #21
RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
(10-22-2019 07:32 PM)jcardial Wrote:  Long term integration in a country isn't as easy as it looks on paper. I have known 30+ expats who were making more than enough via the internet to establish roots elsewhere and nearly everyone has moved back to their home country or somewhere Western/first world. I'm not saying it is impossible or that there are no upsides, but there are a lot of downsides that are easy to gloss over on the short term.

1) Learning another language to a native level (or near it) is a tall order: you have to be passionate as hell and/or naturally talented to put in the work to plow through the burn out that comes once you have gotten through the basic to intermediate stage of a language. Even if you enjoy it, it's so easy to lose interest after a while and the path of least resistance is seductive (e.g. dating an English speaker and hanging out with expats).

Maybe you could in theory get to a level where you understand your local friends' jokes in a few years of woodshedding like it's a part time job, but in practice an insanely small percentage of guys have actually pulled this off (especially for the more difficult languages). If it's a language like Spanish, you at least have plenty of relatively Western/well produced movies and TV shows to stay interested. Serbian cinema and movies for instance are terrible and the pay off to learning it is access to not that many millions of people (many of which speak English anyway).

2) Quality of life: everything from slow bureaucracy to dog shit grocery stores is manageable for a few years, but becomes a lot harder to put up with on the 5-10 year scale. Most people coming from the US can't handle the third world long term (and I can't blame them). Some "second world" options might work for some but dumpy ass-backwards countries where smoking is still allowed indoors etc get old. It also sucks when you can't easily order what you want online for reasonable prices/delivery times.

3) Third world mentality: There are just less successful people around to learn from and collaborate with (because the smartest ones have left the third world). The overwhelming majority of the smartest people I meet in the third world have left the country or are desperately trying to. Even if you were building a location independent business, there is still tremendous upside to being in a first world country where other intelligent/ambitious/creative people can be accessed and networked with.

It's also way easier to start a second business or income in a wealthy country. I have found that people in wealthier/more educated countries tend to be more interesting and fun to hang out with as well. When language barrier is considered it's a pretty big overall difference.

4) Abandoning family: Another factor that becomes a bigger issue on the 5-10 year scale is spending massively less time with family. If you have relatively cool siblings/parents this is a bigger factor than the opposite extreme. Your family eventually gets elderly and you arguably have a moral obligation to help them out young or old. They invested a ton of time and money in raising you, and moving abroad very long term indubitably lacks loyalty and empathy for a family that is going to need help at some point.

5) The West is moving abroad: Netflix and Instagram along with feminism are infecting most places. The places that aren't affected by it to a very large degree will naturally be the hardest to integrate into.

Third world mentality is absolutely rife in Ukraine, yeah.

But, learning Russian would be a hugely great skill to have.

Trade offs, trade offs...
10-23-2019 10:36 AM
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Polniy_Sostav Offline
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Post: #22
RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
(10-22-2019 07:32 PM)jcardial Wrote:  Long term integration in a country isn't as easy as it looks on paper. I have known 30+ expats who were making more than enough via the internet to establish roots elsewhere and nearly everyone has moved back to their home country or somewhere Western/first world. I'm not saying it is impossible or that there are no upsides, but there are a lot of downsides that are easy to gloss over on the short term.

1) Learning another language to a native level (or near it) is a tall order: you have to be passionate as hell and/or naturally talented to put in the work to plow through the burn out that comes once you have gotten through the basic to intermediate stage of a language. Even if you enjoy it, it's so easy to lose interest after a while and the path of least resistance is seductive (e.g. dating an English speaker and hanging out with expats).

Maybe you could in theory get to a level where you understand your local friends' jokes in a few years of woodshedding like it's a part time job, but in practice an insanely small percentage of guys have actually pulled this off (especially for the more difficult languages). If it's a language like Spanish, you at least have plenty of relatively Western/well produced movies and TV shows to stay interested. Serbian cinema and movies for instance are terrible and the pay off to learning it is access to not that many millions of people (many of which speak English anyway).

2) Quality of life: everything from slow bureaucracy to dog shit grocery stores is manageable for a few years, but becomes a lot harder to put up with on the 5-10 year scale. Most people coming from the US can't handle the third world long term (and I can't blame them). Some "second world" options might work for some but dumpy ass-backwards countries where smoking is still allowed indoors etc get old. It also sucks when you can't easily order what you want online for reasonable prices/delivery times.

3) Third world mentality: There are just less successful people around to learn from and collaborate with (because the smartest ones have left the third world). The overwhelming majority of the smartest people I meet in the third world have left the country or are desperately trying to. Even if you were building a location independent business, there is still tremendous upside to being in a first world country where other intelligent/ambitious/creative people can be accessed and networked with.

It's also way easier to start a second business or income in a wealthy country. I have found that people in wealthier/more educated countries tend to be more interesting and fun to hang out with as well. When language barrier is considered it's a pretty big overall difference.

4) Abandoning family: Another factor that becomes a bigger issue on the 5-10 year scale is spending massively less time with family. If you have relatively cool siblings/parents this is a bigger factor than the opposite extreme. Your family eventually gets elderly and you arguably have a moral obligation to help them out young or old. They invested a ton of time and money in raising you, and moving abroad very long term indubitably lacks loyalty and empathy for a family that is going to need help at some point.

5) The West is moving abroad: Netflix and Instagram along with feminism are infecting most places. The places that aren't affected by it to a very large degree will naturally be the hardest to integrate into.

very good post.
As someone who expatriated at the age of 21 without any diploma and never came back home I can say that it is very different to expatriate while receiving a salary and being independent. Obviously the last 5-6 years i am expatriated with my wife and kids (we are both foreigners) so this makes life more bearable as we don't need much entertainment. This also changes the perceptions of foreigners : they know you re here with your family and that you re here because of work , and assume that you are "Serious".
If you are alone , and do not work there , you will rarely be taken seriously , especially if you work online. Or just be seen as a weirdo or an ATM.

1) This helps a lot , but this is only applicable to certain countries. There are places where English is not spoken and not liked , and the local language will open you some doors and make you earn some respect. But there are other countries where locals do not want to share so much their culture and want to speak english with you and will deal with it , keeping you "de facto" an outsider even if you try hard. I cannot speak for countries I do not know , but in Ukraine/Russia/Spain/Turkey (especially the poor parts) it is better to speak the local language , in Albania or in Hungary people won't expect you to speak it as they do not have the mentality of being an empire and assimilate foreigners.

2) Corruption is indeed a big issue. Lack of organisation is the most annoying. But it s a contract : You know what you sign for before to go. Don't expect to find same things at home if you go somewhere else. Countries are poorer for a reason , and most of the time it is because of corruption or low IQ due to brain drain (at least in Europe). If you can't handle the third world , then don't go there. The same way than a somalian refugee will not handle the first world. You will be an outcast. Get ready in your mind and adapt.

3) PArtly true but again it was your choice to go there. And you do not necessarily need to interact with people so much. A few friends are enough. For business the poorer the country the more you need connections and to be dirty in mind. It is a rule. Usually , our western upbringing does not make us very successful.

4) This is very true and I think widely underestimated. Especially if you re married to a foreigner and live in a third country. At some parents your parents are sick , you have to spend to see them and them to fly to you and this poses a lot of problem. I believe this even will become some issue with globalists in the close future , hence the will to euthanize old people.

5) Definitely the most disgusting of all. I would almost accept to live in a horrible country but i am bored of seeing the same shops , same food chains , same mentality and internet everywhere. But that's not enough , the debauchery is also spreading. This is why we have to support countries with totally different strategies and regimes , simply to keep diversity in the human race and its cultures (North Korea , possibly Iran , etc etc) . When I think about people travelling in the 60s , usually priviledged people , they saw a country as it is , and they weren't thinking about going to McDonalds , connect to wi-fi at the airport or hotel etc...What a luxury !
10-23-2019 11:03 AM
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Graft Online
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Post: #23
RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
Relocating abroad permanently is stupid unless you have seven figures in the bank.

Best thing to do is take a break from corporate, get an online masters degree that's semi legitimate, save money on rent, and come back in a few years to rejoin the workforce.

Maybe if you have 50-100k and are desperate you can take that money and try to make something work in terms of starting a business, but it's hard dealing with new laws and customs in a new country.

I built this empire and I did it by myself. Nobody did it for me. Not Ivana, not Marla. Nobody! ~Donald Trump
10-23-2019 10:44 PM
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Post: #24
RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
(10-23-2019 10:30 AM)ArloDash Wrote:  I first discovered Mike through B&D and they were all living in Vietnam at the time. He regularly says that the biggest mistake he ever made was going back to the USA and getting involved in politics. He advocates for young men to move to Chang-Mai and start building their life up from there instead of going to college anymore.

Anything he advocates I would take with a very large grain of salt.

I don't know when the last time Cernovich went to Chang Mai, but it's got the worst pollution in Thailand and is chock full of expats, most of whom hang out at the same overpriced coffee shops "working remotely" while wearing the same elephant-patterned pants they all bought at the nearby market, which is shoulder to shoulder with Western and Chinese tourists.

Retirement in SEA is one thing, but the average young guy going to Chang Mai for more than a quick break isn't building squat except opportunity cost.

Politics is just the latest in a long string of narcissistic hustles he's tried at one time or another.

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10-23-2019 11:33 PM
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ArloDash Offline
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Post: #25
RE: My Epiphany About Building A Lifestyle Abroad
(10-23-2019 10:44 PM)Graft Wrote:  Relocating abroad permanently is stupid unless you have seven figures in the bank.

Best thing to do is take a break from corporate, get an online masters degree that's semi legitimate, save money on rent, and come back in a few years to rejoin the workforce.

Maybe if you have 50-100k and are desperate you can take that money and try to make something work in terms of starting a business, but it's hard dealing with new laws and customs in a new country.

Disagree.

The path to getting to seven figures in the bank happens exponentially quicker if you're freelancing at a standard wage, living abroad and cognizant of tax advantages versus making six figures in a corporate role, paying American cost of living, and having 35% of your paycheck taken by the government.

Nobody ever starts brick and mortar businesses in developing countries. That is actually stupid. Razor-thin margins and trying to sell things to poor people, no thanks.
10-24-2019 03:31 AM
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