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Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
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Easy_C Offline
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Post: #951
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
Double post:

Reminded me of something.

The best example of how to communicate these things to boomers, comes from Coach Red Pill. Unfortunately his other video is down.






He asks the question "Is there a person or group of people who you are not allowed to criticize, and you're afraid to say anything negative about because if you do that person or group will ensure that you are severely punished for doing so?"
12-02-2019 11:49 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #952
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
An interesting vid that is related also to the dissident right:





This Irish Zoomer makes a good argument that nationalism is collecivism. Radical individualism and libertarianism is a negatie ideolgy and you get steamrolled over by groups who work together.

He makes the argument that a collectivist nationalist policy should have some socialist points which all Western and even rich Asian countries have. So the will of the people offers collective services just as defense and public services are collective endeavors. This communal taking care of our own tribe is actually a form of Christian thinking.

The problem with the right and partly with the dissident right is that it should not only be opposed to social marxism while it endorses the same open borders, offshoring, open markets competing with Botswana and China - on all economic fronts. There you get the Ben Shapiros who blame the people for not making enough in San Francisco for rent while working 2 jobs.

It increasingly looks as if the dichotomy is not left vs right, but nationalism vs globalism/internationalism. You cannot be a conservative while still espousing internationalist economic policy that was mostly promoted by Jewish Libertarians who were funded by Jewish billioanires and trillionaires. Then you end up at the same system.

That is not conservatism - it's just a different version of globalism. The elite does not care if Ben Shapiro or Bernie Sanders wins - nothing changes for them.
12-02-2019 01:15 PM
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Roosh Offline
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Post: #953
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
We have a new player in the game:



Roosh
http://www.rooshv.com
12-02-2019 01:24 PM
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budoslavic Offline
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Post: #954
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
12-02-2019 01:31 PM
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rotekz Offline
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Post: #955
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
(12-02-2019 01:24 PM)Roosh Wrote:  We have a new player in the game:



Jay is not being entirely straight here. Vox said he had "read the transcript" of the Kurgan video and based his opinion off that. He will not debate himself as it is not his area of expertise or interest. What he has offered to do is set up the outline and format of a debate between The Kurgan and Jay Dyer, the two original persons in disagreement.

Am I right in thinking that the member 'Kurgan' on RVF is 'The Kurgan' in argument with Jay Dyer?

TBH I wish all this Christian infighting would cease. At least hammer it out by written debate and bypass the YouTube drama. Otherwise it becomes a battle of the YouTube followings and a new form of internet bloodsports, the only real winners being the hand-rubbers.







(This post was last modified: 12-02-2019 02:11 PM by rotekz.)
12-02-2019 02:00 PM
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MG7 Offline
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Post: #956
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
Why is an Orthodox trying to pronounce decisively on the sedevacantism issue, which is a intra-Catholic disagreement? This is at best pointless chest-puffing drama, to be ignored.
12-02-2019 02:17 PM
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d'Aversa Offline
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Post: #957
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
12-02-2019 03:26 PM
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TooFineAPoint Offline
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Post: #958
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
(12-02-2019 01:15 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  An interesting vid that is related also to the dissident right:





This Irish Zoomer makes a good argument that nationalism is collectivism

It absolutely is, and is the central reason why I don't see it as being fundamentally any better or more desirable than Soviet or Chinese communism.

The left got what they wanted -- an actual right wing authoritarian movement.
12-02-2019 04:12 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #959
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
(12-02-2019 04:12 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 01:15 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  An interesting vid that is related also to the dissident right:





This Irish Zoomer makes a good argument that nationalism is collectivism

It absolutely is, and is the central reason why I don't see it as being fundamentally any better or more desirable than Soviet or Chinese communism.

The left got what they wanted -- an actual right wing authoritarian movement.

Everything where a group of people work together is collectivism. It's not evil per se. It's the Jordanian crap-definition of radical individualis which actually was negative. Even Christianity is a collectivist endeavor.

Social security or minimum wage is collectivist - joint roads and central city plumbing is collectivist. Yeah - nationalism is evil. Atheist Anarcho-individualism is where the magic happens - right....

Right wing nationalism is not automatically right wing authoritarianism on the level of some genocidal Nazis or genocidal communists. Christian-based ethno-nationalism was the default modus operandi of the West for hundreds of years up until the 1950s to 1960s. The periods of chaos of the French revolution and the like - that is when really crazy and neagtive things happened.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2019 04:27 PM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
12-02-2019 04:25 PM
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rotekz Offline
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Post: #960
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
(12-02-2019 03:26 PM)dAversa Wrote:  

Jay is attempting wizardry here. "Vox Day defends "sedevacationism" against my arguments - I offer debate. Declines."
No. This is what Vox wrote:
Quote:Speaking of The Kurgan's channel, his methodical destruction of Jay Dyer's criticism of the Roman Catholic Church will likely be more than a little familiar to anyone who has read one of my systematic critiques. Being neither Catholic nor Orthodox, I have no dog in this hunt, but it is always a pleasure to read through a dialectical argument with this level of attention to detail.

This commentary on The Kurgan's video does not entitle Jay to a debate with Vox. He should be debating The Kurgan and that is what Vox has very graciously set up for him.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2019 04:42 PM by rotekz.)
12-02-2019 04:35 PM
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TooFineAPoint Offline
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Post: #961
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
(12-02-2019 04:25 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 04:12 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 01:15 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  An interesting vid that is related also to the dissident right:





This Irish Zoomer makes a good argument that nationalism is collectivism

It absolutely is, and is the central reason why I don't see it as being fundamentally any better or more desirable than Soviet or Chinese communism.

The left got what they wanted -- an actual right wing authoritarian movement.

Everything where a group of people work together is collectivism. It's not evil per se. It's the Jordanian crap-definition of radical individualis which actually was negative. Even Christianity is a collectivist endeavor.

Social security or minimum wage is collectivist - joint roads and central city plumbing is collectivist. Yeah - nationalism is evil. Atheist Anarcho-individualism is where the magic happens - right....

Right wing nationalism is not automatically right wing authoritarianism on the level of some genocidal Nazis or genocidal communists. Christian-based ethno-nationalism was the default modus operandi of the West for hundreds of years up until the 1950s to 1960s. The periods of chaos of the French revolution and the like - that is when really crazy and neagtive things happened.

Working together or belonging to a community is not "collectivism".

Specifically, collectivism is either "the practice or principle of giving a group priority over each individual" or "the theory and practice of the ownership of land and the means of production by the people or the state".

You can choose whether or not to participate in Christianity. You can decide that working together with other people will help you achieve your ends.

Social security and minimum wage (state sponsored wealth transfer aka theft) is not voluntary.

Plus I didn't claim Nationalism was evil nor that "Atheist Anarcho-individualism" was magic. I said that I desire nationalism as much as Soviet communism, which is to say I don't desire it. If it can be used as a wedge against fractional reserve central banking and untrammelled 3rd world immigration and nation building abroad then I am happy to support it in the meantime. But it is neither a positive nor a goal for me.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2019 04:49 PM by TooFineAPoint.)
12-02-2019 04:45 PM
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Knight of Malta Offline
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Post: #962
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
Vox Day also viciously attacked Nick Fuentes and the Groypers earlier so I don't mind Jay going after him, even if it is for something else.
12-02-2019 05:17 PM
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NoMoreTO Offline
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Post: #963
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
Sede Vacante means empty seat. The Chair is empty because the Pope is not a real Pope.

Hopefully this debate goes forward. There is a lot of solid Traditional Catholics going full Sede Vacante either because there isn't a Traditional Latin Mass local to them except from a Sede Vacante Priest, or because Pope Francis seems to be doing a lot of things that are way off side. So I would like to hear the debate.

It isn't infighting in the groyper movement, its pure Catholocism. The logos must be in operation for the political stuff to follow. The Pope could easily be up there with Charlie Kirk answering some of these questions the same way!

Note: There are almost 2 streams of Sede V now, Those who reject all the way back to Vatican 2, and a New Stream of those defecting from Francis.

“Where the danger is, so grows the saving element.” ~ German poet Hoelderlin
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2019 05:48 PM by NoMoreTO.)
12-02-2019 05:45 PM
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The Guest Offline
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Post: #964
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
(12-02-2019 02:17 PM)MG7 Wrote:  Why is an Orthodox trying to pronounce decisively on the sedevacantism issue, which is a intra-Catholic disagreement? This is at best pointless chest-puffing drama, to be ignored.

In addition to being a theologian, Jay explains in his video that he was involved in SSPX and sedevacantism before converting to Orthodoxy.
12-02-2019 06:11 PM
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Tom Slick
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Post: #965
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
(12-02-2019 06:11 PM)The Guest Wrote:  In addition to being a theologian, Jay explains in his video that he was involved in SSPX and sedevacantism before converting to Orthodoxy.

Exactly. Jay does not pull this stuff out of nowhere. His two books on esoteric Hollywood and his summaries of many of the standard sources for patriot history, such as his summaries of Carroll Quigley's two most important books (Tragedy and Hope and The Anglo-American Establishment), are the best material I've seen on the new world order plan because reading these two door stops and understanding most of it is unlikely for even the most dedicated Groyper.

Jay is also an Ortho bro, one of the most knowledgeable out there, and constantly debating theology and geopolitics with all comers. The info. he provides on original sources are useful to all Groypers, especially to Christian Groypers.

He reviewed a very important book published by the second monastery Roosh visited on his tour, written by Fr. Seraphim Rose of the St. Herman of Alaska Monastery in Platina, California.

ORTHODOXY & THE RELIGION OF THE FUTURE: UFOS & CULT PSY OPS-JAY DYER (HALF)





Jay's subscriber link has the next two and a half hours.

Call me Tom Slick Bass.
12-02-2019 09:33 PM
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MG7 Offline
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Post: #966
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
(12-02-2019 06:11 PM)The Guest Wrote:  In addition to being a theologian, Jay explains in his video that he was involved in SSPX and sedevacantism before converting to Orthodoxy.

So what? He's still instigating drama, and for what purpose?
12-03-2019 04:40 AM
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Teedub Offline
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Post: #967
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
Despite dissing him a few pages ago I actually bought one of Vox's books in 2016. Perhaps his most famous one, 'SJWs Always Lie'. For a guy who claims to be an uber genius... it really wasn't particularly insightful nor brilliantly written. It wasn't badly written, but no more impressive than posts you often find on here by guys who don't endlessly brag about how superior their intellect is to others.

It wasn't exactly Nietzsche; I tried to read Genealogy of Morals and couldn't even get past the preface. My head was in pieces. And Stefan Molyneaux calls himself 'the most important contemporary philosopher', as if they're somehow comparable. Haha.

The things you own end up owning you.
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2019 05:49 AM by Teedub.)
12-03-2019 05:48 AM
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MG7 Offline
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Post: #968
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
On the groypers: so much energy, so little wisdom. They need someone powerful to support them if they want to get anywhere, just speaking the truth with chutzpah ultimately accomplishes little. The only possible is Trump, but they harassed his son.

Put yourself in Don Jr's shoes, you go to this event, Kirk is friendly and deferential as usual. And out of nowhere the crowds heckles you, weird 'Joker' laughter, booing, shouting you down and interrupting you. "But we're the one who are actually on your side, Don, believe us."

I'm not sure how the groypers could have better shot themselves in the foot, maybe by literally spitting on Don Jr instead of figuratively.
12-03-2019 06:13 AM
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Post: #969
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
Trump needed the wake up call. The swamp grows, the wall isn’t built and his promises that got him elected go unfulfilled.

You may as well have Hilary at this point because what we have now is just violins distracting us on the deck as the Titanic sinks.

You wanna talk about bad optics and shooting yourself in the foot then screeching at your rightfully disgruntled support that they’re all “incells” and “need to use dating sites to get laid” takes the cake.

Fuck fake conservatism. The people have spoken and we’re not going to stand for it.

(09-19-2019 04:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  You cannot win playing in the enemy's house by the enemy's rules with the enemy acting as referee.
12-03-2019 07:10 AM
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Post: #970
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
(12-03-2019 06:13 AM)MG7 Wrote:  On the groypers: so much energy, so little wisdom. They need someone powerful to support them if they want to get anywhere, just speaking the truth with chutzpah ultimately accomplishes little. The only possible is Trump, but they harassed his son.

Put yourself in Don Jr's shoes, you go to this event, Kirk is friendly and deferential as usual. And out of nowhere the crowds heckles you, weird 'Joker' laughter, booing, shouting you down and interrupting you. "But we're the one who are actually on your side, Don, believe us."

I'm not sure how the groypers could have better shot themselves in the foot, maybe by literally spitting on Don Jr instead of figuratively.

We put our trust in Donald Trump for the past three years and he hasn't done anything for us.

Trump isn't the solution. In fact, I'd say Trump is a big part of the problem.
12-03-2019 07:54 AM
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It_is_my_time Offline
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Post: #971
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
This could go in many threads here and it probably the very core of all the problems facing the west and the cause of the discussion in most of the threads. Whether it is the inability to find decent women in the west, or the failures of politicians and political parties, the opiod crisis, or even the coming civil war. I choose this thread because I think this is proof of the huge disconnect between Boomers and everyone else, but also X'ers who think things are the same and Groypers.

12-03-2019 10:20 AM
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Enigma Offline
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Post: #972
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
(12-03-2019 04:40 AM)MG7 Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 06:11 PM)The Guest Wrote:  In addition to being a theologian, Jay explains in his video that he was involved in SSPX and sedevacantism before converting to Orthodoxy.

So what? He's still instigating drama, and for what purpose?

How did Jay "instigate" drama by responding to a 30-minute video calling him a stupid, uneducated liar?

Do you know how many times people have brought up negative things about Vox on Jay's channel and he always brushes it off or says something positive about him instead?

In reality, Vox has been avoiding Jay for months. Both his and Jay's fans have been trying to get them together for a friendly dialogue for forever, Jay has reached out personally, but Vox is always too "busy".

But of course, he's not too busy to debate degenerate atheist JF twice, who Jay already embarrassed.

And suddenly, as soon as some drama pops off, oh, wow, Vox has a spot in his schedule to host a debate. He literally said that Kurgan "mechanically deconstructed" Jay, but now he's trying to backtrack as if he didn't try to snipe at Jay the moment he thought he saw a weakness.

(12-02-2019 02:00 PM)rotekz Wrote:  TBH I wish all this Christian infighting would cease. At least hammer it out by written debate and bypass the YouTube drama. Otherwise it becomes a battle of the YouTube followings and a new form of internet bloodsports, the only real winners being the hand-rubbers.

Jay and Nick Fuentes debated. There weren't any bloodsports, and Jay's had nothing but good things to say about Nick since then.

Compare that to Vox (and Owen), who have some kind of blood vendetta against Nick's entire family because he said he doesn't agree with Owen on everything.
12-03-2019 11:39 AM
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Roosh Offline
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Post: #973
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
(12-03-2019 06:13 AM)MG7 Wrote:  On the groypers: so much energy, so little wisdom. They need someone powerful to support them if they want to get anywhere, just speaking the truth with chutzpah ultimately accomplishes little. The only possible is Trump, but they harassed his son.

You expect wisdom from those in their early 20s? Give them 15 years, and they will have more wisdom than the generations that preceded them. In the meantime, they will have to make a lot of mistakes, but as long as their energy remains high, and they stay close to God, they will be able to overcome them.

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12-03-2019 11:47 AM
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Isaac Jordan Offline
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Post: #974
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
(12-03-2019 10:20 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  This could go in many threads here and it probably the very core of all the problems facing the west and the cause of the discussion in most of the threads. Whether it is the inability to find decent women in the west, or the failures of politicians and political parties, the opiod crisis, or even the coming civil war. I choose this thread because I think this is proof of the huge disconnect between Boomers and everyone else, but also X'ers who think things are the same and Groypers.


For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. - Matthew 13:12

Humans (like many vertebrates) structure their societies hierarchically.

When they function properly, hierarchies serve a valuable purpose by elevating talent to where it can best serve its purpose:

-In a healthy sexual hierarchy only the fittest genes make it into the next generation.

-In a meritocratic organization the most talented are elevated to leadership roles, where their genius can benefit society as a whole.

-In a properly functioning capitalist system quality product and service providers thrive while low quality projects go bankrupt and see their capital recycled into new ventures.

The eternal struggle between left and right, in large part, seems to be an ongoing referendum as to the health and desirability of these hierarchies. Not only are hierarchies zero-sum (meaning by definition most people will never be on top), but due to the Pareto distribution/Matthew Effect, those who have will find it much easier to accumulate more, while those without will find it increasingly difficult to accumulate anything at all.

You see it in the alpha male Chad who sleeps with half his ex's girlfriends versus the virgin incel who can't get a date; the monopoly whose size allows for economies of scale that startups could never capture; the network effect enjoyed by first-movers that prevents competitors from ever gaining traction.

The sexual marketplace in particular provides a great example of how deregulating an industry can quickly lead to an extreme Pareto shift. Socially-enforced monogamy was something of a Great Compromise between alpha and beta males, where the former agreed to share some of their women with the latter, and the latter agreed to accept their place at the bottom (rather than constantly revolting and attempting to overturn the hierarchy). What the top men lost in sexual abundance, they gained in societal stabilization, as having a wife and family gave every man skin in the civilizational game.

But thanks to the sexual revolution, condoms/birth control/abortion, penicillin, etc., we have removed all rules and constraints from the system, and thus the biological hierarchy reasserts itself in all its natural glory: alpha fucks/beta bucks for the women, soft harems and serial monogamy (or involuntary celibacy) for the men.

The danger we face today, as alluded in the tweet above, isn't merely that our hierarchies are corrupt and malfunctioning - it's that many want to do away with them entirely. Rather than acknowledge the purpose and necessity of hierarchies, the Left demands we eliminate them, in the name of "fairness" and "equality".

Despite their dismal failures, both large and small, the Left refuses to relent, and in the last several years we seem to have passed the point where polite political debate can even take place. A cursory glance at history tells us this will not end well. It may be that the only way to repair our hierarchies is to first tear them down, and allow the immense pain that follows to illuminate the magnitude of our mistakes.
12-03-2019 12:16 PM
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Enhanced Eddie Offline
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Post: #975
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
Nick Fuentes has more wisdom than any conservative older than him I can even think of.
If you follow him closely, you will realize he is VERY strategic about absolutely everything.
Yeah he's young but he's also some kind of prodigy. A Mozart of politics if you will.
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2019 12:22 PM by Enhanced Eddie.)
12-03-2019 12:21 PM
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