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Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread
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John Michael Kane Offline
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Post: #151
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
(11-01-2019 11:56 PM)jorge1 Wrote:  As israeli, sometimes i can't believe how many lies people still spread this days.
Most of "AID" that is given allows israel to buy Army equipment ONLY from the US.

I was always strong fan of canceling this aid, instead of israel manufacturing this equipment on their land, we give job force to US factories, instead of opening factories and giving people jobs, we giving it to USA. if you cancel the AID, it will only harm the US, leaving one of biggest clients out.
For israeli Lobby, it is indeed strong in the US. But it come ONLY from from jews who were born in the US and become up rich. How a normal israeli can influence US? seriously.

This is a false premise. The US arms makers make tons of money off fat contracts to Israel, but those dollars aren't trickling down to factory-line workers. It is laughable to suggest that billions in aid isn't being funnelled to industry fat cats instead of helping the average Americans.

If this was really about helping the average American, we wouldn't be taxed annually those billions of dollars in the first place, or if we were taxed, they would go towards domestic programs. Each year the Zionist Lobby here in the United States advocates for wealth transfer from millions of non-Jews/non-Israelis right into the hands of the war machine of arms makers and the Israeli military-industrial complex.

Nobody in Tel Aviv is protesting this massive wealth transfer and calling it what it is: Theft from gentile taxpayers for a foreign country, and grifting arms makers back here in the United States. Not for one second does anyone informed belive that giving Israel billions of dollars worth of weaponry is making the United States a safer place.

Israel is a closed-borders state, while the Israel lobbies hard for Zionism as a Jewish-only state (peaceful Christian Arabs be damned), they also demand that America be an open-borders state, and Europe for that matter too. If the Israeli powers that be wanted more true friends in the world, they'd stop acting like spoiled brats that play by a double-standard.

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11-02-2019 12:05 AM
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MichaelWitcoff Online
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Post: #152
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
I struggle to grasp how people can make jorge’s argument and expect to be taken seriously. America gives Israel billions of dollars, with which they buy weapons from us, using money we gave them for free. So at the end of the transaction, America has given away weapons for no profit and Israel has gained weapons at no loss.

How does that benefit America exactly?

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(This post was last modified: 11-02-2019 12:06 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
11-02-2019 12:05 AM
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Post: #153
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
(11-02-2019 12:05 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  I struggle to grasp how people can make the above argument and expect to be taken seriously. America gives Israel billions of dollars, with which they buy weapons from us, using money we gave them for free. So at the end of the transaction, America has given away weapons for no profit and Israel has gained weapons at no loss.

How does that benefit America exactly?

Somehow this is counted as being "America's greatest ally", by robbing us blind? We should be super thankful for the opportunity to get financially raped each year to the tune of billions of dollars? It is simply outrageous.

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11-02-2019 12:07 AM
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Post: #154
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
(11-01-2019 11:56 PM)jorge1 Wrote:  I was always strong fan of canceling this aid, instead of israel manufacturing this equipment on their land, we give job force to US factories, instead of opening factories and giving people jobs, we giving it to USA.
If you cancel the AID, it will only harm the US, leaving one of biggest clients out.
For Israeli Lobby, it is indeed strong in the US. But it come ONLY from from jews who were born in the US and become up rich. How a normal israeli can influence US? seriously.

Great idea. In fact, Israel should give the US $38 billion per year to buy Israeli weapons like the Uzi! It'd surely support the Israeli arms manufacturing business.

I'm assuming you support that, right?
11-02-2019 12:16 AM
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El Chinito loco Offline
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Post: #155
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
(11-02-2019 12:07 AM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  
(11-02-2019 12:05 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  I struggle to grasp how people can make the above argument and expect to be taken seriously. America gives Israel billions of dollars, with which they buy weapons from us, using money we gave them for free. So at the end of the transaction, America has given away weapons for no profit and Israel has gained weapons at no loss.

How does that benefit America exactly?

Somehow this is counted as being "America's greatest ally", by robbing us blind? We should be super thankful for the opportunity to get financially raped each year to the tune of billions of dollars? It is simply outrageous.

It doesn't surprise me though. That is the type of half-assed argument they throw out there when they think you are an idiot deserving of no respect or rational explanation as to how they financially and socially rape your civilization.

They really are an arrogant and narcissistic bunch. Historically it's almost always been the case and when they let their arrogance go out of control usually it comes back to bite them in the ass.

Then they complain about how they always end up getting kicked out of every nation or civilization.


edit: By the way that dumbass argument posted by our greatest ally is also the exact same company line that shabbos goy Charlie Kirk gave when he was asked about foreign aid to Israel. It's literally the zionist company line that their proxies are told to repeat.
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2019 12:20 AM by El Chinito loco.)
11-02-2019 12:17 AM
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jorge1 Offline
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Post: #156
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
This is because US as government want to give people jobs, in the history, building a Dam or Railway were massive projects to give jobs. Every us president over history lunched this projects to reduce unemployment and its their one of the running presidency.
John Michael Kane - its not false ?? Obama made sure israeli to use the AID only to buy from USA.

When we went under war in 2006, there was shortage of bombs and missiles, only because we begged USA, we received more, in the past we had factories to produce this arms, because the knowledge we have. But due to the relay on USA our factories shut down.
Sad Sad we did not learn.
What trumph is trying to do with China, Israel should do with USA, hence- bringing factories to on premises.

Funny though, people complain on little things, instead of focusing on bigger things, like russia or china. You rather focus on few billions us help israel a year, where israel is an ally. And few BB compared to USA economy, is that the problem?

For Zionism, better us then Arabs control this land.

Actually - all all your comments make me happy, it states the facts that nothing have changed nothing changed over the decades, people still hate jews, Nazi germany, Exodus of jews from spain, exodus of jews from Arab country. And at 2019 people still talk about how jews control USA, Arabs in Europe and WW hate jews because of israel conflict.
Nothing changed in the history.
Talk about Zionism as you wish - thank god we have a country.
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2019 12:43 AM by jorge1.)
11-02-2019 12:21 AM
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Post: #157
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
(11-02-2019 12:21 AM)jorge1 Wrote:  This is because US as government want to give people jobs, in the history, building a Dam or Railway were massive projects to give jobs.
John Michael Kane - its not false ?? Obama made sure israeli to use the AID only to buy from USA.

When we went under war in 2006, there was shortage of bombs and missiles, only because we begged USA, we received more, in the past we had factories to produce this arms, because the knowledge we have. But due to the relay on USA our factories shut down.
Sad Sad we did not learn.
What trumph is trying to do with China, Israel should do with USA, hence- bringing factories to on premises.

It doesn't matter if the factories are on US soil or Israeli soil. As long as the weapons are bought with American taxpayer dollars, it is financial rape of the average American for the benefit of a foreign power. This a violation of the sovereignty of the American citizen. Israel is not a poor country, it should pay for its own defense, and stop expecting American taxpayer dollars and military support in countless operations that kill and maim our boys.

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11-02-2019 12:35 AM
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El Chinito loco Offline
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Post: #158
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
Military foreign aid is a subsidy. It doesn't matter how that subsidy is spent because military aid is fungible.

In the case of Israel it is a very harmful subsidy that also deeply strengthens the M.I.C./Israel relationship with America's foreign policy.

This whole argument that somehow it will benefit U.S. workers in some magical keynesian way is ridiculous.

Not to mention enabling Israeli foreign policy over America's own real interests does far more damage to America in long term cost in lives and trillions spent on forever wars at the behest of Israel.
11-02-2019 12:43 AM
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Post: #159
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
How this aid killed your "boys" ?
Israeli is an ally.
Though indeed we agree that israel should not rely on us aid. We do have enough money, but most of all - the most important is that we we have the knowledge.

There few times that usa manipulated israel to use the aid from her. It happened where our weapon industry collided with usa industry, like Phantom airplane, it was a rivel to F US plane, and if israel would go develop it then, usa have might lost a lot of selling to WW countries. So usa said - we give you planes for free as long you don't develop your self, many examples like that - you guys fail to understand that us is biggest arms dealer in the world and want to stay like that, so if israeli will develop this weapons, it will bite of usa chunk and us want to stay top. Its higher powers here on the stake.
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2019 12:57 AM by jorge1.)
11-02-2019 12:53 AM
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Post: #160
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
“What’s a few billion dollars a year during a time of skyrocketing American homelessness, opioid overdoses, and suicide rates?”

I agree with you that things don’t seem to change much.

And by the way, I’m full-blooded Ashkenazi. If you’re genuinely curious about why everyone seems to hate us, re-read your last few posts and take a look at your own behavior. It’s a very simple phenomenon to understand.

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(This post was last modified: 11-02-2019 01:29 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
11-02-2019 12:54 AM
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Post: #161
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
(11-02-2019 12:21 AM)jorge1 Wrote:  This is because US as government want to give people jobs, in the history, building a Dam or Railway were massive projects to give jobs. Every us president over history lunched this projects to reduce unemployment and its their one of the running presidency.
John Michael Kane - its not false ?? Obama made sure israeli to use the AID only to buy from USA.

When we went under war in 2006, there was shortage of bombs and missiles, only because we begged USA, we received more, in the past we had factories to produce this arms, because the knowledge we have. But due to the relay on USA our factories shut down.
Sad Sad we did not learn.
What trumph is trying to do with China, Israel should do with USA, hence- bringing factories to on premises.

Funny though, people complain on little things, instead of focusing on bigger things, like russia or china. You rather focus on few billions us help israel a year, where israel is an ally. And few BB compared to USA economy, is that the problem?

For Zionism, better us then Arabs control this land.

Actually - all all your comments make me happy, it states the facts that nothing have changed nothing changed over the decades, people still hate jews, Nazi germany, Exodus of jews from spain, exodus of jews from Arab country. And at 2019 people still talk about how jews control USA, Arabs in Europe and WW hate jews because of israel conflict.
Nothing changed in the history.
Talk about Zionism as you wish - thank god we have a country.

If the military aid to Israel is just a small matter, then why don't you give it up? Why don't you pay for your own defense? Why do you insist on making non-Jews pay for Jewish defense? Should Israelis pay to help arm the Vatican? Stop trying to deflect from the real points by dragging China, Russia or anyone else into this conversation. The China issue exists regardless of America's entrenched relationship with Israel. Just because China is no friend to the United States doesn't automatically make Israel our best buddy. The continued bunker mentality of Israel and the constant arming up at America-Gentile taxpayer expense (trillions of $$$ for Iraq, Afgan, etc.) and the blood of tens of thousands of American-Gentile soldiers is a direct consequence of the neo-cons here in the United States (Bush, Chenny, Kristol, etc.) and their good friends in Tel Aviv.

If Israel wants war with their neighbors, you go fight that war.

Do it without:

+ Our weapons
+ Our taxpayer dollars
+ Our boys being killed and maimed

Is it that hard for you to understand?

Israel can and will exist without sticking America with the cost in taxpayer money and dead soldiers.

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(This post was last modified: 11-02-2019 01:00 AM by John Michael Kane.)
11-02-2019 12:56 AM
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El Chinito loco Offline
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Post: #162
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
(11-02-2019 12:21 AM)jorge1 Wrote:  Actually - all all your comments make me happy, it states the facts that nothing have changed nothing changed over the decades, people still hate jews, Nazi germany, Exodus of jews from spain, exodus of jews from Arab country. And at 2019 people still talk about how jews control USA, Arabs in Europe and WW hate jews because of israel conflict.
Nothing changed in the history.
Talk about Zionism as you wish - thank god we have a country.

Here's a novel concept..as a tribe stop trying to screw over every nation and people you come across and maybe people will like you more?

There have been plenty of people who were killed in history over their ethnicity but have you ever wondered why Jews always seem to run into the same "issues" wherever they go in the world.

Ever maybe consider the fact that the cultural behavior of your tribe just might have something to do with it.

The fact that you think anti-semitism is something that people just happen to feel for Jews is a form of cope. It is a cultural myth of "oppression" that is used to excuse a pattern of antagonistic behavior of your own people.
11-02-2019 12:58 AM
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Post: #163
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
It is hard to understand, because when in history your boys died for israel?
Agreed on not using your aid so what is the problem? Not my fault that big arm makers in us have big pressure on israel not to develop our own wepons in order to to harm their cut.

Why would you go hard on a country that is your ally?
11-02-2019 01:03 AM
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Post: #164
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
The problem with jorge1 and so many others like him, is that they can't see why giving America a raw deal is actually a bad thing that we would or should be offended by!

We should be totally grateful for getting a raw deal...because China...because Putin! Somehow in alternate universe land, us getting taken to the cleaners is actually a good thing that we just don't understand, because...America's Greatest Ally!

Ironically, the less sympathetic that the average Israeli is towards the needs of average Americans, the easier it is for them to question The Special Relationship of Israel/American relations. The constant complaining is causing tensions to boil over.

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11-02-2019 01:08 AM
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Post: #165
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
Chinto, nonsense. You basiclly justify killing of millions of jews just because culture behaver.
Well, will you try elobrate? What jews did in Germany prior WW2 that justified that?
Even if jews were good in money, did they steal it? Or did they work hard to have it, did it come from sky? This is jealousy.
11-02-2019 01:10 AM
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Post: #166
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
(11-02-2019 01:03 AM)jorge1 Wrote:  It is hard to understand, because when in history your boys died for israel?
Agreed on not using your aid so what is the problem? Not my fault that big arm makers in us have big pressure on israel not to develop our own wepons in order to to harm their cut.

Why would you go hard on a country that is your ally?

The Israel Lobby was the driving force why the United States went to war in Afghanistan and Iraq: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Israel...ign_Policy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_fo...ge_in_Iraq

Our citizens are dead because of Israel-First Zionist lobbies in the United States constantly pushing for war. Not happy with invading Afghanistan and Iraq, they are still pushing for invading Iran.

There will never be a country that America doesn't have to invade on Israel's behalf as long as Israel doesn't have to do any of the fighting or paying, in taxpayer dollars or blood.

As an American, I can criticize the wrong behavior of America. Why is it so hard for you as an Israeli to admit your country does a lot of things wrong?

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11-02-2019 01:16 AM
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Post: #167
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
(11-02-2019 01:10 AM)jorge1 Wrote:  Chinto, nonsense. You basiclly justify killing of millions of jews just because culture behaver.

[citation needed]

I'm not justifying anything that allegedly happened. I'm just pointing out that there's two sides to every conflict. Do you think people just magically become anti-semitic everywhere Jews go?

Quote:Well, will you try elobrate? What jews did in Germany prior WW2 that justified that?
Even if jews were good in money, did they steal it? Or did they work hard to have it, did it come from sky? This is jealousy.

Do I really have to go into details? The history and degeneracy of the Weimar republic. The history of Jewish usury and deep involvement in the political and social apparatus leading up to WW2.

The involvement of Jews in various coups and revolutions which inevitably severely harms the host nation.

I believe you actually probably know all of this already but keep trying to play the victim I guess?
11-02-2019 01:21 AM
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Post: #168
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
El Chinito, he may well not know any of it.
The same narrative you see on TV is beaten into our heads day in and day out growing up and going to synagogue. It took me years to get to where I am, so be patient and pray for him. If he’s truly a seeker he will eventually untie the knot but it doesn’t happen overnight.

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11-02-2019 01:25 AM
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Post: #169
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
(11-02-2019 01:25 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  El Chinito, he may well not know any of it.
The same narrative you see on TV is beaten into our heads day in and day out growing up and going to synagogue. It took me years to get to where I am, so be patient and pray for him. If he’s truly a seeker he will eventually untie the knot but it doesn’t happen overnight.

Exactly. There's many forms of having to swallow the red pill, none of them pleasant. Coming to terms with a world view that only sees Jews/Israel as always the victim have done zero wrong at any point in history, for any reason takes a massive amount of mental and spiritual strength to break free from that programming.

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11-02-2019 01:28 AM
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Post: #170
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
Chinto, this is all lies, like that jews drinking blood of kids, you must believe in that too no?

John, Afghanistan? Relly? Show me proof.
On iraq i agree
For us saying victim claim, non of it justify killing of millions, you are modern anti semitic.
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2019 01:34 AM by jorge1.)
11-02-2019 01:31 AM
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Post: #171
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
Jorge1 I will tell you this: if you can calm down and place a higher value on absolute and objective truth - even if and where it clashes with everything you've ever been taught, by everyone you've ever trusted and loved - you will eventually break free of what you will come to understand as a psychological prison that stunts your growth as a man and your understanding of the world around you. It is going to hurt and feel like ripping off a spiritual band-aid. It is going to alienate you from your own community. But at the end, you will be free, and the price you'll have paid will be worth it.

To the guys trying to engage here, understand that the responses you're getting will all be based on subconscious turmoil and emotionalism rather than any logical or rational responses. It's how I acted too when I first started exploring the "right wing" internet and discovering the actual complaints that many gentiles had against Jews. Up until I was about 27 I just went with "anti-semites," since that is what we are taught by our teachers and parents and rabbis growing up, and it wasn't until then that I was exposed to people who actually explained the reasons to me. It is a very painful thing to see at first, even more for one of us than it is for gentiles who first break out of this particular layer of conditioning, for reasons I'm sure you can all understand. Hence the "wounded" reaction, which comes from a place of feeling threatened and vulnerable rather than from a place of dialectical reasoning and intellectual curiosity.



God bless and guide you, Jorge.

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2019 01:41 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
11-02-2019 01:40 AM
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Post: #172
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
Jorge1,

Read this book, then come back to this thread if you are truly looking to be informed: The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy by John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt.

You need to understand the background that led up to the wars that were pushed for by the Israel Lobby inside of the United States. Until you read the backstory, you'll just get your news from the Jerusalem Post and that will give you an incomplete worldview.

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11-02-2019 01:41 AM
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MichaelWitcoff
El Chinito loco Offline
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Post: #173
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
(11-02-2019 01:31 AM)jorge1 Wrote:  Chinto, this is all lies, like that jews drinking blood of kids, you must believe in that too no?

Maybe not so much the blood part but you guys definitely do have an obsession with baby foreskins.

Laugh4

Everything can be neatly summed up in Culture of Critique by Kevin Macdonald. If you really want to examine the history of your people with an open mind I encourage you to give it a read if you can even find it in Israel that is.

Now when you read about the stuff he talks about in his series go do your own parallel research.
11-02-2019 01:42 AM
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Post: #174
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
Ultimately, we live in a clown world where White supremacy (meaning European and Christianity) is touted as the frontman for evil when it is actually Jewish supremacy in complete control, deceiving and raping the masses.

[Image: quote-goyim-were-born-only-to-serve-us-w...-99-21.jpg]

(09-19-2019 04:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  You cannot win playing in the enemy's house by the enemy's rules with the enemy acting as referee.
11-02-2019 01:55 AM
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MichaelWitcoff Online
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Post: #175
RE: Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread (retitled)
Romans 11 hit me hard tonight as I read it after posting here and before my evening prayers. It is all about the relationship between Jews, Gentiles, and God. St. Paul writes that, besides the remnant of Jews elected by grace to receive Christ early on, others will convert out of "envy" of the salvation of the Gentiles. He explains that God sent salvation, through St. Paul, to the Gentiles, not just to save the Gentiles and "graft them" into "Israel" but also specifically so that Jews would see the grace and mercy bestowed upon the Gentiles and, out of a desire for the same experience, turn back to God themselves. My lived experience matches up perfectly with this historical reality, as the peace and love emanating from my Gentile Christian friends a few years ago is part of what convinced me to go to church and keep learning about God and the Bible.

I think it's relevant in this thread, and the JQ thread as well, because it also talks about how God hardened the hearts of His people, temporarily, and gave them a spirit of blindness and stupor. I have long believed that my fellow tiny hats have some kind of spiritual "wall" that only God's grace can break through, and in all my experience trying to talk with them about all these issues, this theory has proven itself every time. Logic never works. It is, fundamentally, a lack of Logos, order, the pattern of existence which takes up its fullness in the Person of Jesus Christ. Without that, without Him, there is no way to understand anything of what is going on. What they need isn't logic, it's Logos.

So perhaps, moving forward, preaching Christ and His love first is the best way to soften hearts and win minds and souls. I know many have tried this and few have succeeded, but it's got to have a higher chance of being effective than getting angry and making accusations.

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2019 03:30 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
11-02-2019 03:29 AM
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