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Should I get married even though not deeply in love?
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Moto Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Should I get married even though not deeply in love?
This thread motivated me to log in again after years of only occasional lurking, and I hope to help get it back on track and be of use to the OP. Sadly some people are making this thread about them, which doesn't seem particularly charitable.

I had a similar thread a few years back, losing my ability to pair-bond. There were many parallels, and I ended up listening to those with good-sounding, but theoretical advice rather than those who have been there and done that and reached out in the thread or in PMs. Some people were interested in knowing how it all turned out. The story is not yet done, so hopefully before deploying the ban hammer on me keep in mind I am a (fallen) eastern-rite Catholic convert (before I ever joined the forum) and really the good part in me wants to go in direction of the forum, bringing my wife and daughter with me.

Shortly after my last post in my thread, I did break up with my girlfriend at the time. I was looking at my next destination, maybe Thailand or Cambodia. But after a few weeks of going ghost she was after me, and convinced me to get back with her. The meat market / dating market was a rough place, and I figured why am I trying to meet someone new when this beautiful girl, who knows all my flaws, still wants me so much? She must really love me and accept me as no other will...

I saw after a couple more months that it was not working, we were at the beach and she was so much more interested in chatting up other people that I up and left our spot without her or or brother even noticing. So I tried to end it again, until she said she thinks she is pregnant. Obviously I have my responsibility, and she reduced her sin by not using contraceptives (but refused to be open with me about when were her fertile days, demanding that I just trust her) but she was in fact pregnant just about as fast as possible upon getting back together with me.

I married her, but only civilly and in the latin-American country in which we live. It was mostly out of a sense of obligation and doing the right thing. Perhaps it had no chance if we weren't both willing to do the irreversible Church-sanctioned marriage from the start, but it was at least my plan to emulate from the start and eventually have the religious marriage. She wanted, no fully expected, the traditional religious husband from me from the get-go but was not a traditional wife in return. My body, eyes, mind, and soul had to be totally hers, but she did not reciprocate. A single unconscious flicker of my eye would ruin nights out and cause bitter fighting, though she indulges her lavishness and vanity without restraint.

Before I ever came to Latin-America, after a confession with my priest about this problem tard he advised me to go find a wife. The woman who did all in her power to be my wife and mother of my child, did not help me conquer my sin but used sex as a tool of control. Good doggie, you deserve sex this week. I was able to go months without fapping, porn, or lusting for other women after the marriage began, but she withheld more than I could tolerate.

She wanted a baby so bad, until she had one. She had extreme post-partum depression, demonic episodes after discovering that I fell back into a sin that she knew full well about before begging to get back with me, and she stopped breastfeeding after only a week of trying because her boob job (that I never wanted or even approved) made it difficult. She always wanted to be at her parent's house, hardly cooking or cleaning in our own, and I was the jerk for not wanting to spend my spare time with her family that she never left.

Anyways, she got what she wanted. She lives back with them now, with our daughter who may have developmental problems possibly because of lack of breastfeeding, plus my wife letting her fall off the couch onto hard floor as an infant while I was showering, not respecting my wishes of not vaccinating, and because my wife was drinking the first weeks after conception.

She deeply resents that I never had the passion, and she never accepted my faults or was willing to help me with them. A hot wife who withholds or uses sex as a reward or lack thereof as punishment will make it near impossible for either of you to enter heaven, and will make this life a living hell. And it isn't much better even when she's gone, if you've had a child.

Now she's into channeling "angels" and being an oracle. She does not want to go to mass with me. We used to go at least occasionally together.

I may have gotten my personal time back, which I needed some as I am an introvert and withdraw into myself when under constant attack and criticism. But I cannot enjoy it. Marry the wrong woman, or for the wrong reasons, and you lock yourself out of heaven and happiness forever. It's either no personal time at all for yourself ever (including spending any considerable time on this forum, reading, learning, meditating, praying) or way too much. I do not get to see my daughter enough, and she does not love me.

Don't do it OP. If you must, become celibate and find a girl at least as virtuous as you who will happily give you her body as you give her yours when talking of marriage. Statistically this is not likely to happen in this day and age, but miracles do happen.

I'll always be thankful for the daughter she bore me, and hopefully we can make the best of an admittedly bad situation. I'll do whatever I have to do to be in my daughter's life, and have not yet given up on keeping our family together and toward God. We are not yet divorced, and still have the chance to start a first "real" marriage in the church. Some here may say that's impossible since I've separated myself from the Spirit through sin so many times, but if former murderers of Christians (Paul) and prostitutes can become saints there may be hope yet.

People who have never been married or had a child, feel free to provide your opinion but I will value it exactly what it is worth. For abstract, general advice there is already the Bible and the Catechism and you cannot improve on that.

I have no idea what to expect now, the forum is such a different place that I knew. Maybe I will be told to repent, that I'm a damned piece of trash, to leave the forum for good this time. But this is not about me. My story is for the OP, and anyone else thinking about marriage.

TLDR My point is not that marriage is always a bad idea, but to choose wisely, be deeply in love first, and be the right man before looking for the right woman. Don't count on any woman to help you to be the right man, or that she will become the right woman.
11-01-2019 06:35 PM
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Should I get married even though not deeply in love?
(11-01-2019 06:35 PM)Moto Wrote:  People who have never been married or had a child, feel free to provide your opinion but I will value it exactly what it is worth. For abstract, general advice there is already the Bible and the Catechism and you cannot improve on that.

I have no idea what to expect now, the forum is such a different place that I knew. Maybe I will be told to repent, that I'm a damned piece of trash, to leave the forum for good this time. But this is not about me. My story is for the OP, and anyone else thinking about marriage.

First: Thank you for opening up and telling this very personal story.

Now the problem with marriage is that it is a once in a lifetime thing. You cannot go through like 50 life-long marriages and then open a thread about "lessons learned". Most people won't go through much more than one marriage per lifetime and provide anecdotes at best, regardless if they fail, succeed or are not there yet. Advice by people divorcing and remarrying every two years would be pretty questionable as well.

That's the reason why "firsthand marriage experience" is not a very useful metric to discuss the topic.

I could now with help of the Spirit point out in detail, what went wrong, but I spare myself the effort to avoid another character assassination. Just one thing for people reading this story getting further black-pilled: It's not about the woman. It's the man who sets the rules, boundaries and standards and lives by it. The man attracts what he represents himself. He was a player, she was one as well, gaming him to get to her personal goal: the baby.

That is what matters in the end and not how much one takes "dating advice" on an Internet forum to the heart.
11-01-2019 07:23 PM
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Jimo Dashen Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Should I get married even though not deeply in love?
Greetings OP,

I think you are thinking too deeply about this. You clearly want a family or have that burning desire. As far as your gf goes, I am not sure any men get "deeply" in love. It's more of this girl is pleasant to be around and overall, I enjoy being with them. So you need to ask yourself is this girl 1) marriage material and 2) compatible with you. You also need to make sure you are compatible with her. Girls are often dumb and overlook things that bite them (and subsequently) the man later in the relationship. Men do this as well.
11-01-2019 07:38 PM
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SilentOne Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Should I get married even though not deeply in love?
Moto

That was a powerful story there. Too bad I was just an occasional lurker back then to offer an advice.

I'm pretty sure you're going to get told the typical "you chose the wrong one" script all day.

She simply pulled the Bait and Switch move out on you. It's a very powerful move from the woman's playbook. A lot of men still fall for it till this day.

Women use emotion to get men to do stupid things like marrying them. She now knows she can act up and there's nothing you can do about it. She has the child, her family, occasinally your family, the judge, the lawyers, the cops, and the government all against you. The power is in her hands.

Marriage serves no purpose to men outside of maybe moving up the ranks for political reasons. Even then, the risks isn't worth the gamble.

Its a reason why women constantly push for marriage more than men, because it by far benefits them more than anything else. She is looking out for herself.
11-01-2019 08:12 PM
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Should I get married even though not deeply in love?
(11-01-2019 07:38 PM)Jimo Dashen Wrote:  I think you are thinking too deeply about this. You clearly want a family or have that burning desire. As far as your gf goes, I am not sure any men get "deeply" in love.

Men are the deeply romantic sex. The Bible commands them to love their wife, as Christ loves His bride the Church.

Pre-marital self-denial and later supporting a whole family is a sacrifice, a man endures only with enough love for his wife and family.

So do not kill your pair-bond abilities, or else you're looking at SilentOne's black pill with no way out.
11-02-2019 03:19 AM
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VincentVinturi Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Should I get married even though not deeply in love?
@Moto

Crazy story man. Did you do a DNA test to verify that the child is indeed yours?

@wwtl

I can't speak for others but I would personally be more receptive to your ideas if you got off your high horse.

I grew up going to various Pentecostal Ukrainian churches with my mom.

And later as a young adult when I lived in the South I worked as a choir director in a Presbyterean church.

So I've spent a lot of time around Christianity and formal religion.

In my experience, taking a sanctimonious stance will not help bring your brothers closer to God, it will simply annoy the people you are endeavoring to help.

Feel free to disagree with me but that's been my experience.

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11-02-2019 07:13 AM
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bucky Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Should I get married even though not deeply in love?
(11-01-2019 06:35 PM)Moto Wrote:  People who have never been married or had a child, feel free to provide your opinion but I will value it exactly what it is worth. For abstract, general advice there is already the Bible and the Catechism and you cannot improve on that.

I have no idea what to expect now, the forum is such a different place that I knew. Maybe I will be told to repent, that I'm a damned piece of trash, to leave the forum for good this time. But this is not about me. My story is for the OP, and anyone else thinking about marriage.

TLDR My point is not that marriage is always a bad idea, but to choose wisely, be deeply in love first, and be the right man before looking for the right woman. Don't count on any woman to help you to be the right man, or that she will become the right woman.

Thanks for sharing your story, Moto. Of course you chose poorly in getting married, but it's something that happens to a lot of guys. Millions and millions of other guys, in fact. It's a very easy trap to fall into when you're young and don't really understand women. Happened to me too, and I paid for it dearly, although in a different way than you and fortunately I never had kids with my ex.

You have a good attitude about your situation, and that's important. As you point out, if St. Paul could achieve redemption you can too. In my case, after my very painful divorce and many dark years, I first found Roosh and the redpill. This was back in the hedonist/PUA days but I still learned a lot of truths about women that helped me understand why my marriage failed and women's true nature. Then God blessed me with meeting my current wife, a devout Catholic, and in spite of my stupid, sinful nature I have a happy family and a good life now.

No matter what happens, I pray that things get better between you and your daughter. Good luck, and stay strong. I think your faith will ultimately save you.

Feminism in ten words: "Stop objectifying women! Can't you see I've hit the wall?" -Leonard D Neubache
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2019 08:02 AM by bucky.)
11-02-2019 08:01 AM
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Moto Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Should I get married even though not deeply in love?
I appreciate the contributions regarding my story and stance toward's the OP's question.

@ Vincent, yes I had a DNA test done. She's practically my female clone.

@ wwtl, you talk about the man leading etc.. which of course is Biblical and traditional. But how do you avoid the bait and switch? Most women do the right song and dance in the early stages and sometimes up until the marriage, when they are really interested. Even looking to how a woman interacts with her father, just because she respects and follows him does not mean she will do it for you, after the ring is on her finger.

I suppose, in this case, a highly valued opinion would be someone who has maintained a fulfilling marriage through dark and trying times and hopefully has some parallels between themselves and the OP. Really I think this case, and mine, is a good microcosm of the problem of trying to get a square peg (traditional marriage expectations) in a round hole (modern society in much of the world).

I mean, what woman would willingly choose to not have her cake and eat it too? If she expect to have the traditional husband while being a feminist (in action if not in word) who in their right mind would sabotage that and publicly question society's double-think norms?
11-03-2019 02:36 PM
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wwtl Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Should I get married even though not deeply in love?
(11-03-2019 02:36 PM)Moto Wrote:  @ wwtl, you talk about the man leading etc.. which of course is Biblical and traditional. But how do you avoid the bait and switch? Most women do the right song and dance in the early stages and sometimes up until the marriage, when they are really interested. Even looking to how a woman interacts with her father, just because she respects and follows him does not mean she will do it for you, after the ring is on her finger.

I suppose, in this case, a highly valued opinion would be someone who has maintained a fulfilling marriage through dark and trying times and hopefully has some parallels between themselves and the OP. Really I think this case, and mine, is a good microcosm of the problem of trying to get a square peg (traditional marriage expectations) in a round hole (modern society in much of the world).

I mean, what woman would willingly choose to not have her cake and eat it too? If she expect to have the traditional husband while being a feminist (in action if not in word) who in their right mind would sabotage that and publicly question society's double-think norms?

I agree with you, that the perfect testimonial would from someone time traveling from the future who married in nowadays' clown world and successfully made it to 2045 with three adult kids. While I value opinions from married people, who put the rings on in 1995 (and I listen to them IRL), we can't apply their past experiences to the current era. (Who had swiping in 1995?)

One thing I learned after my conversion, is if it looks too good to be true, it usually is. If I met the "perfect" virtue-signaling Christian virgin tomorrow, I would be extremely suspicious. I like to see real humans with real flaws trying to better themselves. For this reason I would also never look abroad, because without all the essential cultural context I'm easily fooled, if for example some EE girl puts on her "tradcon whitey foreigner" game to lure me in.

My current approach is to stick to my tribe and yield this square peg into round hole problem entirely to God, because He is the only one who can actually accomplish this, if it is in His plan. Then religiously stick to His commandments (including those considered fringe nowadays) to stay in His will, and also make the sacrifices He asks me for. After that there is nothing left for me than to trust Him. There still is no guarantee - except for the cases when He makes promises. Those are kept, even if the road to them looks difficult and bumpy.
11-04-2019 01:57 PM
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Sensei Creation Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Should I get married even though not deeply in love?
@Moto

Damn, I actually remember reading your original thread way back in 2015.

Got a little nostalgic rereading it as it took me back to where I was in life at the time. Only a couple months into my forum membership. Desperate to learn anything game related.

Your right, the forum was such a different place back then, but in many ways, so were you and I.

Thanks for sharing the continuation of that story, I think it shows, if anything, that in life, the biggest changes can come from the thinnest of margins.

I wonder how things would have played out for you had you trusted your gut feeling and not replied to her restart text after initially ghosting her for weeks.

That being said wish you and your family all the best.

I can't offer any advice as I'm not married but I certainly appreciate you sharing that cautionary tale.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2019 06:58 AM by Sensei Creation.)
11-12-2019 06:52 AM
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