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Question from a non-Christian about Sin
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RWIsrael Offline
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Question from a non-Christian about Sin
From my very basic understanding of Christianity, the 7 deadly sins don't only apply to women and sex, but to other aspects of life.

Maximizing your looks or improving confidence and other masculine traits can be seen as sinful - How do you reconcile Christian belief that espouses being humble before God with the masculine ideals discussed here of making money (greed), working out and getting ripped (pride) etc.

The above are necessities and part of life / human interaction but still sinful, unless I am mistaken?
In my (admittedly limited) understanding, the concept of self improvement, glorifying the physical self and being strong / good at sports as an ideal comes from the Greeks and is therefore a pagan concept no?

In other words, aside from being a monk, cutting yourself off from the world and spending all your time devoted to God, how do you stay sin-free?

For the record, I'm Jewish although not a very devout one.
11-05-2019 04:56 AM
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
Hey RW, I’m a Jewish convert to Christianity and you’re asking good questions. Firstly let me disabuse you of the notion that monks are “sin-free.” If anything, a true sign of genuine monasticism is a profound understanding of their own wickedness - and as a priest near LA once warned me, “Beware the monk who calls himself holy.”

None of us will ever be sinless while still in the flesh, and likely not even for 24 consecutive hours (though our awareness of this depends on how deep a layer of our sin God has revealed to us).

Second, the idea of “7 deadly sins” is more of a misnomer than a dogma. In Orthodoxy we don’t have it at all, though Catholics would likely refer to them as mortal sins. But the beauty of the Gospel is that no matter how bad you slip and fall - and no matter how many times - God is always waiting and happy to bring you back into His embrace it you confess, repent, and do your best to change. There is no limit to His love Or forgiveness.

Lastly - to finally get around to the answer of your question - self-improvement in the secular sense is largely a pagan concept, but it also depends how you perceive it and what you do with it. Making money can be good, if it’s earned honestly and used to help others, or it can be bad, from a place of inner greed and a desire to accumulate wealth for its own sake. Exercise can be good, as a way to keep yourself healthy and disciplined, or it can be bad, as an obsession and an addiction and a source of vanity and pride.

Everything is a thin line which you will likely cross constantly and struggle with endlessly. We all do. That’s the struggle. Father Tom Hopko taught to expect nothing but vicious temptation up until our deaths. The war is unceasing, but so is God’s mercy.

I once heard it said that God sees us the way we see dogs: kind of dumb and generally disobedient, but He can’t help but love us anyway.

Once you set foot on the path you will discover your own darkness to a greater extent than ever before, but also how unbelievable God’s Light is.

Welcome to the journey Smile

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
11-05-2019 05:08 AM
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debeguiled Offline
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
[Image: 4b8b9347af87e9a67eae4ef9c0c5cd6f.jpg]

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

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11-05-2019 12:39 PM
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
Rationalization...The 8th Deadly Sin

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

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11-05-2019 12:43 PM
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
(11-05-2019 12:43 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Rationalization...The 8th Deadly Sin

Don't be so hard on yourself, you're fine, other forum members do it much worse anyway. No one told you the Papaya wasn't ripe.

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

911
11-05-2019 01:17 PM
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
I am personally not religious and I don’t particularly care about religion. IE: you can have whatever faith you want. If you force it on me, we have issues, if not. We are good. But I recently met a Christian person in Budapest and he told me this. The Crux of all of it is that no matter what you do, you cannot avoid sinning despite the fact Jesus died for our sin. They categorize sin as being minor or major. The most important part is that despite you knowing you sin everyday, you must own up to it. Of course committing major sin is an issue. (‘Such as killing another human being or commuting treachery). There’s also the idea of committing sin just for the sake of knowing you will be forgiven for it cause you know, god forgives all. God is all knowing and all that. But to sum it all up. You will commit sin. As long as you confess, some will be forgiven and some will hold you in contempt. You would never know until after you die, because some of your actions are planned by god, while others are considered as you betraying god. You can never live your life completely sin free. But live your life the best you can and own up to your choices whether or not you feel it’s gods vision in your path.
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2019 02:10 PM by IWantSpamandEggs.)
11-05-2019 02:08 PM
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
What if there's something that you know you're going to keep doing?

That's not how we do things in Russia, comrade.

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11-06-2019 05:31 AM
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WombRaider Offline
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
(11-05-2019 01:17 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  
(11-05-2019 12:43 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Rationalization...The 8th Deadly Sin

Don't be so hard on yourself, you're fine, other forum members do it much worse anyway. No one told you the Papaya wasn't ripe.

And anyway, God forgives sins so it doesn't matter anyway.
11-06-2019 01:42 PM
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
(11-06-2019 05:31 AM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  What if there's something that you know you're going to keep doing?

You don't know anything. Do you ever try to stop? Serious question.

Get your passport ready!
11-06-2019 09:23 PM
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
(11-05-2019 05:08 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  I once heard it said that God sees us the way we see dogs: kind of dumb and generally disobedient, but He can’t help but love us anyway.

This is good stuff. Idea

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11-06-2019 09:25 PM
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Roosh Offline
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
(11-05-2019 05:08 AM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  I once heard it said that God sees us the way we see dogs: kind of dumb and generally disobedient, but He can’t help but love us anyway.

So God sees us as pugs. Banana

[Image: pug-info-446x320px.jpg]

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11-06-2019 09:31 PM
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
Had a great pug photo for the thread but I'm struggling with the link system in posts.

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2019 09:43 PM by MichaelWitcoff.)
11-06-2019 09:42 PM
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
(11-06-2019 09:42 PM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  Had a great pug photo for the thread but I'm struggling with the link system in posts.

For images, use this code:

Code:
[img]https://www.pathtoimage.com/image.jpg[/img]

Some sites don't let you hot-link, so then it's best to attach it using the New Reply button.

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11-06-2019 10:14 PM
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Athanasius Offline
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
(11-05-2019 04:56 AM)RWIsrael Wrote:  In other words, aside from being a monk, cutting yourself off from the world and spending all your time devoted to God, how do you stay sin-free?

We sin because we are sinners. That is, we're born in sin through Adam. This is the argument of the book of Romans. This is why Jesus didn't entrust Himself to men, because He knew what was in men (John 2:24-25).

And yet, we're responsible for our sin. When I feel a compulsion to do something wrong, and then I do it, I still know that I didn't have to do it. No one put a gun to my head.

The answer to your question of how to stay sin-free: it's impossible. Instead, the Bible says we should believe in and trust in Christ to forgive our sins and save us, and make us acceptable in God's sight through His death on the cross for our sins. Then, out of thankfulness, we should walk in the light. The rest of your earthly life will then be a war against the world, the devil, and your own fleshly desires. You'll sin and repent of it. Over some sins you'll find victory with the Spirit's help, while others will be an ongoing struggle.
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2019 10:24 PM by Athanasius.)
11-06-2019 10:22 PM
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
(11-06-2019 10:14 PM)Roosh Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 09:42 PM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  Had a great pug photo for the thread but I'm struggling with the link system in posts.

For images, use this code:

Code:
[img]https://www.pathtoimage.com/image.jpg[/img]

Some sites don't let you hot-link, so then it's best to attach it using the New Reply button.

Ah gotcha. PM'd it to you but I'll use that next time.

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
11-06-2019 10:23 PM
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Salinger Offline
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
(11-05-2019 04:56 AM)RWIsrael Wrote:  Maximizing your looks or improving confidence and other masculine traits can be seen as sinful - How do you reconcile Christian belief that espouses being humble before God with the masculine ideals discussed here of making money (greed), working out and getting ripped (pride) etc.

Making money to save up and live comfortably is not a sin. Flauting your wealth (if you have wealth) is a sin. There's nothing wrong though with making a good amount of money to make sure you and your family can survive the hard times.

Working out is also not a sin as you're just engaged in a healthy activity. Nothing wrong with that.
11-06-2019 10:26 PM
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
(11-06-2019 10:26 PM)Salinger Wrote:  Making money to save up and live comfortably is not a sin. Flauting your wealth (if you have wealth) is a sin. There's nothing wrong though with making a good amount of money to make sure you and your family can survive the hard times.

Working out is also not a sin as you're just engaged in a healthy activity. Nothing wrong with that.


Not to mention. A honest business owner who is wealthy as a result. Will no doubt be employing a no. of people, thus providing for them through his success & wealth.

Hell, many Biblical folk had slaves of all things...
We may call them employees today. But I digress.
11-06-2019 10:54 PM
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
(11-06-2019 09:23 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 05:31 AM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  What if there's something that you know you're going to keep doing?

You don't know anything. Do you ever try to stop? Serious question.

Ok I'll rephrase. What if you just keep doing it, and you expect to keep doing it.

That's not how we do things in Russia, comrade.

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11-07-2019 05:08 AM
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
(11-07-2019 05:08 AM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 09:23 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 05:31 AM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  What if there's something that you know you're going to keep doing?

You don't know anything. Do you ever try to stop? Serious question.

Ok I'll rephrase. What if you just keep doing it, and you expect to keep doing it.

It's possible you aren't fully trusting in God's ability and desire to heal you. Other times it seems God allows us to fall into sin, even the same one over and over, because doing so humbles us and that prevents us from the sin of pride, which some consider to be the most destructive (after all, that was Satan's sin). If you prayed once and overcame all your sin, being a human being, your gratitude would likely not last long and you'd end up convincing yourself it was your own doing because you're just that great. And that pride would lead to a very painful fall sooner or later.

So I think God lets us sin sometimes not only because He won't violate our free will and force us not to, but also for the same reason he allowed the devil to afflict Job with disease and suffering: to test us, make sure we really believe in Him, and ultimately, reward us when we always turn back to Him no matter how much our lives may suck in the short term.

My own path has been very slow and rocky at times, because my initial conversion was only to the idea that Christ was real. He proved it to me. But I still had no idea what the Scriptures taught, what counted as sin, who the Apostles were, or anything like that. It's been a years-long process that continues to this day and, I hope, always will. The more you learn, the more you grow, and the more sanctified you become over time.

But it all starts with a burning desire to know God and get closer to Him - without that, all the theology in the world won't do a thing for you.

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 11-07-2019 05:32 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
11-07-2019 05:30 AM
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
If God lets us sin, I won't stand in His way. Just kidding, what I mean is, I don't want to turn effort into a full time job. I'd never get anything else done.

That's not how we do things in Russia, comrade.

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11-07-2019 10:03 AM
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RE: Question from a non-Christian about Sin
Once you believe in God, Sin is disobedience to God.

When you see it this way, it makes you work to eliminate it as best you can. Realistically, wrestling with your major sins (mortal) is the first step.

As an example: I'd like to rip of the government and cheat on my taxes, but I know God prohibits it. To me it seems actually like a good thing still, because the government is evil, godless, and globohomo….but God does not allow this. So this is a sin where I wouldn't feel guilt in the sin itself, but I would feel guilt disobeying God.

So from a Non Christian perspective, we can see certain things as bad - murder, theft, etc. depending on whether you are living in a way that fits with the natural law or not. But other things you might not see as a sin - stealing from the government, homosexuality, feminism.

To me this is the difference.

With respect to working out, or making a lot of money, agree with above, its what you do with it. But if that is your objective, then perhaps you are considering your own objectives and ambitions (get a hot woman, live a nice life) more so than Gods' objectives for you.

“Where the danger is, so grows the saving element.” ~ German poet Hoelderlin
(This post was last modified: 11-07-2019 10:18 AM by NoMoreTO.)
11-07-2019 10:12 AM
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