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Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
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Roosh Offline
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Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
Once the paycheck loan business dried up, the moneylenders have started to allow consumers to put all their online purchases on layaway. The American middle class is being squeezed to death.

Quote:The payday-loan business was in decline. Regulators were circling, storefronts were vanishing and investors were abandoning the industry’s biggest companies en masse.

And yet today, just a few years later, many of the same subprime lenders that specialized in the debt are promoting an almost equally onerous type of credit.

It’s called the online installment loan, a form of debt with much longer maturities but often the same sort of crippling, triple-digit interest rates. If the payday loan’s target audience is the nation’s poor, then the installment loan is geared to all those working-class Americans who have seen their wages stagnate and unpaid bills pile up in the years since the Great Recession.


In just a span of five years, online installment loans have gone from being a relatively niche offering to a red-hot industry. Non-prime borrowers now collectively owe about $50 billion on installment products, according to credit reporting firm TransUnion. In the process, they’re helping transform the way that a large swathe of the country accesses debt. And they have done so without attracting the kind of public and regulatory backlash that hounded the payday loan.

“Installment loans are a cash cow for creditors, but a devastating cost to borrowers,” said Margot Saunders, senior counsel for the National Consumer Law Center, a nonprofit advocacy group.

Subprime Evolution

For many families struggling with rising costs and stagnant wages, it’s a cost they’re increasingly willing to bear.

In the decade through 2018, average household incomes for those with a high school diploma have risen about 15%, to roughly $46,000, according to the latest U.S. Census Bureau data available.

Not only is that less than the 20% increase registered on a broad basket of goods over the span, but key costs that play an outsize role in middle-class budgets have increased much more: home prices are up 26%, medical care 33%, and college costs a whopping 45%.

To keep up, Americans borrowed. A lot. Unsecured personal loans, as well as mortgage, auto, credit-card and student debt have all steadily climbed over the span.

For many payday lenders staring at encroaching regulatory restrictions and accusations of predatory lending, the working class’s growing need for credit was an opportunity to reinvent themselves.

They “saw the writing on the wall, and figured, ‘let’s anticipate this and figure out how to stay in business,’” said Lisa Servon, a University of Pennsylvania professor specializing in urban poverty and author of The Unbanking of America: How the New Middle Class Survives.

Triple-Digit Rates

Enter the online installment loan, aimed in part at a fast expanding group of ‘near-prime’ borrowers -- those with bad, but not terrible, credit -- with limited access to traditional banking options.

Ranging anywhere from $100 to $10,000 or more, they quickly became so popular that many alternative credit providers soon began generating the bulk of their revenue from installment rather than payday loans.

Yet the shift came with a major consequence for borrowers. By changing how customers repaid their debts, subprime lenders were able to partly circumvent growing regulatory efforts intended to prevent families from falling into debt traps built on exorbitant fees and endless renewals.

Whereas payday loans are typically paid back in one lump sum and in a matter of weeks, terms on installment loans can range anywhere from 4 to 60 months, ostensibly allowing borrowers to take on larger amounts of personal debt.

In states such as California and Virginia, interest-rate caps enacted years ago and meant to protect payday borrowers only applied to loans below $2,500.

For subprime lender Enova International Inc., outstanding installment loans averaged $2,123 in the second quarter, versus $420 for short-term products, according to a recent regulatory filing.

Larger loans have allowed many installment lenders to charge interest rates well in the triple digits. In many states, Enova’s NetCredit platform offers annual percentage rates between 34% and 155%.

In fact, Virginia sued NetCredit last year for avoiding state interest-rate caps, while California Governor Gavin Newsom earlier this month signed into law a measure capping interest rates on loans between $2,500 and $10,000 at 36% plus the Federal Reserve’s benchmark, currently at around 2%.

A representative for Enova directed Bloomberg to the firm’s latest quarterly filings, wherein the company says that Virginia’s claims are without merit.

“The benefit of installments loans is you have more time to make the payments; the downside is the payments on these high-cost loans go exclusively towards the interest, possibly for up to the first 18 months,” the National Consumer Law Center’s Saunders said.

The industry, for its part, argues that just as with payday loans, higher interest rates are needed to counter the fact that non-prime consumers are more likely to default.

Between Enova and rival online lender Elevate Credit Inc., write offs for installment loans in the first half of the year averaged about 12% of the total outstanding, well above the 3.6% of the credit card industry.

“With high-cost credit, you’re only serving people that won’t qualify for other types of credit, so you’re already in a hardship situation,” said John Hecht, an analyst at Jefferies LLC. “Companies have to price for that.”

According to Elevate’s most recent quarterly financials, net charge offs for their Rise installment loan product equaled about 45% of the revenue those loans generated.

“By the time they get to be our customers, they may have hit that speed bump at least once; often they will have run into medical bills or a job loss, which knocks out their ability to get other forms of credit,” said Jonathan Walker, who heads Elevate’s Center for the New Middle Class, a research and data gathering unit that analyzes the borrowing habits of the more than 150 million Americans without prime credit scores.

Elevate’s average online subprime installment loan customer has an annual income of about $52,000. About 80% have been to college and 30% own a home, according to Walker. More than 10% of the company’s core customer base makes over $100,000 a year.

“Ten years ago it was payday loans or nothing, and today there has been a lot of innovation to meet the consumer where they are,” Walker said.

Booming Business

The surging popularity of online installment loans, combined with a growing ability to tap into big data to better screen customers, has helped boost the fortunes of many subprime lenders. The Trump administration’s decision earlier this year to delay and potentially weaken planned restrictions on payday lending that were announced in 2016 has also bolstered the industry’s outlook.

Elevate’s annual revenue rose about 1,000% in the five years through December to $787 million, while Enova has seen growth of 46% in the span to $1.1 billion, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

Subprime installment loans are now being bundled into securities for sale to bond investors, providing issuers an even lower cost of capital and expanded investor base. Earlier this month Enova priced its second-ever term securitization backed by NetCredit loans. The deal paid buyers yields between 4% and 7.75%. Its debut asset-backed security issued a year ago contained loans with annual interest rates as high as 100%.

The bulk of their growth has been fueled by the middle class.

About 45% of online installment borrowers in 2018 reported annual income over $40,000, according to data from Experian Plc unit Clarity Services, based on a study sample of more than 350 million consumer loan applications and 25 million loans over the period. Roughly 15% have annual incomes between $50,000 and $60,000, and around 13% have incomes above $60,000.

For Tiffany Poole, a personal bankruptcy lawyer at Poole, Mensinger, Cutrona & Ellsworth-Aults in Wilmington, Delaware, middle America’s growing dependency on credit has fueled a marked shift in the types of clients who come through her door.

“When I first started, most filings were from the lower class, but now I have people who are middle class and upper-middle class, and the debts are getting larger,” said Poole, who’s been practicing law for two decades. “Generally the debtors have more than one of these loans listed as creditors.”

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/america-m...01049.html

Roosh
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11-07-2019 08:20 PM
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nek Offline
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
Just goes to show the upside of not fitting in. Most people create their own prisons, they don't need masters to put them in shackles.

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11-07-2019 08:32 PM
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
When debt is used to purchase a cashflowing asset, it is a great thing.

When debt is used to buy the latest and greatest television set, it is crippling.

This is quite simply an idiot tax. If you finance your toaster at 10%/mth, what do you expect?

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11-07-2019 08:43 PM
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fokm Offline
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
(11-07-2019 08:20 PM)Roosh Wrote:  In fact, Virginia sued NetCredit last year for avoiding state interest-rate caps, while California Governor Gavin Newsom earlier this month signed into law a measure capping interest rates on loans between $2,500 and $10,000 at 36% plus the Federal Reserve’s benchmark, currently at around 2%.

This article paints the states of Virginia and California as the good guys for capping the interest rate at 38%.
11-07-2019 09:06 PM
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bacon Offline
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
With the payday loans, those clients usually don't have access to credit cards due to having a very low credit score.

I would be curious to see a deep dive into the demographic data on this, as I suspect people doing this likely also have outstanding credit card balances. In that context, I imagine many are utilizing this as a robbing Peter to pay Paul, whereby they take out an installment loan and pay off a credit card. From there many would just go right back to using the newly paid off credit card to accumulate more debt or even making payments on the installment debt from that credit card.

As was pointed out in the article many of these companies incorporate in Delaware due to the favorable banking regulations which allow interest rates to be set very high. Then since customers access the website online, the company can maintain that it is operating out of Delaware meanwhile the customer lives in Virginia, which bypasses local usury limits.

I would equate the debt industry to the alcohol industry in that a large amount of the profits come from a small, but dedicated group of core customers, who through personal circumstances or personality reasons will consume the most and will never break free from their master.

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11-07-2019 09:08 PM
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Roosh Offline
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
(11-07-2019 09:06 PM)fokm Wrote:  
(11-07-2019 08:20 PM)Roosh Wrote:  In fact, Virginia sued NetCredit last year for avoiding state interest-rate caps, while California Governor Gavin Newsom earlier this month signed into law a measure capping interest rates on loans between $2,500 and $10,000 at 36% plus the Federal Reserve’s benchmark, currently at around 2%.

This article paints the states of Virginia and California as the good guys for capping the interest rate at 38%.

Bloomberg probably has (((business interests))) in states having a cap not lower than 38%.

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11-07-2019 09:21 PM
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
(11-07-2019 09:08 PM)bacon Wrote:  With the payday loans, those clients usually don't have access to credit cards due to having a very low credit score.

I would be curious to see a deep dive into the demographic data on this, as I suspect people doing this likely also have outstanding credit card balances. In that context, I imagine many are utilizing this as a robbing Peter to pay Paul, whereby they take out an installment loan and pay off a credit card. From there many would just go right back to using the newly paid off credit card to accumulate more debt or even making payments on the installment debt from that credit card.

I've seen a few of these ads on instgram already (about a month ago) and they've been targeting young black females mostly.
In the ad it shows the girl was doing it so she could go out with her friends to the club and have money.

So sad, reminds me of seeing all of those technical institute ads on BET in the middle of the night, nothing but predatory behaviour.

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11-08-2019 03:41 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
My wife showed me this and I'm not a brilliant money guy but even I thought it was retarded.

These shysters are banking on easily-duped women signing up for this shit online before the husband (if he exists) can vet it for stupidity.

And anyone who thinks "well if you're that stupid then you deserve to suffer" is part of the problem. This goes back to what I described as American no-holds-barred capitalism being a case of Europeans being brainwashed into thinking like Jews. People like that don't belong in European-dominated/created societies and should fuck off to places in the world where that kind of mentality is acceptable or at least expected. In a laissez faire market these cunts would be the first ones to start getting kids hooked on crack at school and then blaming the parents for the resultant addiction while still peddling their junk. I cannot say on the forum what a proper society would do with them.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 11-08-2019 03:54 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
11-08-2019 03:51 AM
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
(11-08-2019 03:51 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  My wife showed me this and I'm not a brilliant money guy but even I thought it was retarded.

These shysters are banking on easily-duped women signing up for this shit online before the husband (if he exists) can vet it for stupidity.

And anyone who thinks "well if you're that stupid then you deserve to suffer" is part of the problem. This goes back to what I described as American no-holds-barred capitalism being a case of Europeans being brainwashed into thinking like Jews. People like that don't belong in European-dominated/created societies and should fuck off to places in the world where that kind of mentality is acceptable or at least expected. In a laissez faire market these cunts would be the first ones to start getting kids hooked on crack at school and then blaming the parents for the resultant addiction while still peddling their junk. I cannot say on the forum what a proper society would do with them.
America is a country that is 23 trillion dollars in debt, and will never pay off that loan. This is the way of things in 2019, with negative interest rates becoming a thing, expect far more of this to happen (hint: rates don't stay negative forever, they flip and get higher and higher). So not only is the everyday person going to fall for it, institutions, businesses, and everyone is going to fall for it. There's a crash coming again, this time, bigger than anything on scale.

In my country, there is 1 dollar and 71 cents of debt for every dollar of weatlh. Consumer debt is absolutely idiotic - Who is buying all the brand new cars off the lot and taking the 30% depreciation hit? Not the financially literate, I can tell you that. And now you're financing televisions, video games, and entertainment that help you escape the fact that you are in financial ruin?

Money isn't real. Money is a way of capturing value in a way that can then be put to use elsewhere. One person's debt is another person's asset.

We live in a society where appearances are this huge thing, and when you shake that, you can be free.

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11-08-2019 08:15 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
That's one of the main reasons I love living in the country. There isn't that retarded race to the bottom where you have to keep up with the Joneses who themselves are drowning in debt to just to try and beat you.

But on some level it's all inescapable. Irresponsibly offered/taken debt increases the price of everything from (value) to (value + stupidity) or worse, (value + legitimately need it and have to compete in the same market as everyone else, so...). A million televisions without debt might cost a thousand bucks each. Add ten percent on a payment plan and you get the same TV for 1100 over time. Now if everyone else does it then eventually they just roll the extra 100 dollars into the cost of the TV and say "interest free payments". Now everyone pays the 1100 because the TVs are going to sell anyway and if you want to get it for the non-debt price of 1000 then they tell you to fuck off, because why would they sell it for less to you than some other simp who walks in with no money and desperate desire for a new TV?

I know this is a generalization but if you tally up societal averages then I guarantee that a society with zero debt pays less for products even disregarding interest. This new loan system is just another example of more debt chasing less products and less value. From the TV to the new car to the $1000 shitbox car someone is outbidding you for because they got a payday loan. Everyone suffers even if they don't want the debt.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 11-08-2019 08:51 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
11-08-2019 08:50 AM
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
@TheFinalEpic

All that debt will have to be cancelled. And all money would have to come back to something like a gold standard or any standard that doesn't enable usury or encourage mal-investment.

No more of fractional-reserve banking or any (((Financial))) shenanigans.
11-08-2019 09:04 AM
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
Any examples of websites with high interest installment loans on checkout?

Netcredit seems to be an unsecured personal loans website.

Installments in online shops are usually no to low interest to get people to buy high ticket items. I have never seen any high interest ones, but then again I don't shop much.

Credit cards with usurious interest rates were always the go to credit for what previously constituted as the middle class to have a much higher level lifestyle than one's income affords.
(This post was last modified: 11-08-2019 09:17 AM by SomeOneSomeWhere.)
11-08-2019 09:17 AM
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John Michael Kane Offline
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
I have a lot of credit cards, but don't carry a balance that charges interest. Multiple credit card issuers have been mailing me documents promoting borrowing against my credit line with fixed-interest rate loans. I think they're a bit frustrated that I'm paying off my bill each month instead of paying usury to (((The Usual Suspects))).

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11-08-2019 02:28 PM
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
(11-08-2019 02:28 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  I have a lot of credit cards, but don't carry a balance that charges interest. Multiple credit card issuers have been mailing me documents promoting borrowing against my credit line with fixed-interest rate loans. I think they're a bit frustrated that I'm paying off my bill each month instead of paying usury to (((The Usual Suspects))).

Every other month, I get another credit increase. They are just hoping that I slip up and go buy a car or something.

I believe that if you use debt to generate money, it is a great thing. Ie. taking a loan for equipment that helps you to get more work done. 99% of people are not doing this however.

Debt allows companies to grow and create jobs. It has legitimate purposes. Those that lend money deserve to get compensated for the risk they are taking on. However, at what point can you justify 20% APR? Consumer debt is definitely higher risk, but is it 20%/yr risky? I don't know.

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11-08-2019 04:34 PM
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
(11-08-2019 08:50 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  That's one of the main reasons I love living in the country. There isn't that retarded race to the bottom where you have to keep up with the Joneses who themselves are drowning in debt to just to try and beat you.

But on some level it's all inescapable. Irresponsibly offered/taken debt increases the price of everything from (value) to (value + stupidity) or worse, (value + legitimately need it and have to compete in the same market as everyone else, so...). A million televisions without debt might cost a thousand bucks each. Add ten percent on a payment plan and you get the same TV for 1100 over time. Now if everyone else does it then eventually they just roll the extra 100 dollars into the cost of the TV and say "interest free payments". Now everyone pays the 1100 because the TVs are going to sell anyway and if you want to get it for the non-debt price of 1000 then they tell you to fuck off, because why would they sell it for less to you than some other simp who walks in with no money and desperate desire for a new TV?

I know this is a generalization but if you tally up societal averages then I guarantee that a society with zero debt pays less for products even disregarding interest. This new loan system is just another example of more debt chasing less products and less value. From the TV to the new car to the $1000 shitbox car someone is outbidding you for because they got a payday loan. Everyone suffers even if they don't want the debt.

First they dumb people down by teaching them about patriarchy and sex ed in school instead of maths and science, then they are primed to become debt slaves in an economy with more snakes than ladders.

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11-08-2019 08:11 PM
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
(11-08-2019 03:51 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  And anyone who thinks "well if you're that stupid then you deserve to suffer" is part of the problem. This goes back to what I described as American no-holds-barred capitalism being a case of Europeans being brainwashed into thinking like Jews. People like that don't belong in European-dominated/created societies and should fuck off to places in the world where that kind of mentality is acceptable or at least expected. In a laissez faire market these cunts would be the first ones to start getting kids hooked on crack at school and then blaming the parents for the resultant addiction while still peddling their junk. I cannot say on the forum what a proper society would do with them.

Ok so europeans should not think like jews yet you are a christian, so which is it ?
Thou shalt not kill, or cut that crack dealer into pieces on the spot ?
Or we should follow the rules except when they don't suit us ?
11-09-2019 06:48 AM
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RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
I think you're a little confused. Whether Christ was an ethnic Jew or not is irrelevant. The vast majority of his co-ethnics rejected him and the vast majority of Europeans accepted him in whatever form. Christianity is an expression of the European soul which is why it never flourished in the place it was born but rather elsewhere among more civilized people.

As for the latter question, well I struggle like everyone else with wrath in its many forms. I don't really have time for moral referees who want to flit about the forum blowing their "but you said you were a Christian" whistle and issuing red cards on a playing field they have no personal investment in. Put simply, my sins are between me and God, and I don't really care what standard you hold me to personally. The only other arbiter in this place in particular is Roosh so you can feel free to take it up with him.

And on the matter of obedience to tyranny vs virtuous social solutions, it only takes for good men to stand firm and the evil men will leave or escalate and suffer the consequences. The die are cast the moment you stand in front of the bully and say no. From that point on you win without a fight, or he swings and you fight, winning or losing in the process. Very simple, really. The American war of independence kicked off simply when men refused to stand aside and be disarmed, believing that there was no moral grounds to submit to that authority. Things escalated from there.

It takes for you to say "no more" and mean it. The rest follows naturally.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 11-09-2019 08:14 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
11-09-2019 07:35 AM
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Post: #18
RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
(11-09-2019 06:48 AM)Oberrheiner Wrote:  Ok so europeans should not think like jews yet you are a christian, so which is it ?

You think that Judaism and Christianity are the same religion...

Laugh7
11-09-2019 07:47 AM
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Oberrheiner Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
Ok nevermind, I'm wasting my time here - you are either not able or not willing to understand the question.
You're certainly right when you say it has no importance to me though, it was just misplaced curiosity.
11-09-2019 08:29 AM
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El Chinito loco Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
(11-09-2019 08:29 AM)Oberrheiner Wrote:  Ok nevermind, I'm wasting my time here - you are either not able or not willing to understand the question.
You're certainly right when you say it has no importance to me though, it was just misplaced curiosity.

Do you even understand history? Judaism and Christianity have a few shared roots but they are actually in opposition when it comes to religious text and even moral doctrine.

Judeo-Christian joined together as it often is in the west is a complete farce and a fairly modern concept pushed to advance a subversive agenda.


You conflated the two and 'sperged out when you were called out on it.
11-09-2019 09:24 AM
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Post: #21
RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
Frankly, I could write a long answer and show you why you're wrong, but what would be the point ?
You are desperately clinging to something you proved you don't understand, so apparently this is more important to you than the truth.

Just do what you think is best for you, and I will do the same.
Plus it saves us both the time wasted arguing on the internet with people we will never meet.
Not mentioning the animated gifs, the "do you even"s, and the insults ..
11-10-2019 04:55 AM
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Post: #22
RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
(11-10-2019 04:55 AM)Oberrheiner Wrote:  Frankly, I could write a long answer and show you why you're wrong, but what would be the point ?
You are desperately clinging to something you proved you don't understand, so apparently this is more important to you than the truth.

Just do what you think is best for you, and I will do the same.
Plus it saves us both the time wasted arguing on the internet with people we will never meet.
Not mentioning the animated gifs, the "do you even"s, and the insults ..

If you're a native Frenchman then you should already know how your ancestors felt about the tribe. It is carved right there in rock in the Notre Dame. I suggest you go study those warnings your ancestors made.

These warnings were carved for a good reason it is a shame that you don't respect your own heritage enough to realize this.
11-10-2019 05:10 AM
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Post: #23
RE: Bankers find new way to enslave middle class (online installment loans)
A few years back when I looked into usury, I found out that a lot of Christian writers not only saw usury as the source of many sins but that it was considered to be a close relative to sodomy.

Sodomy is anti-fertility as usury is anti-productive.

In our usurious economy which has to invent niche financial schemes, we also see the proliferation of new sexual niches after the heterosexual market place (supported by the bloodless sacrament, the Pill [don’t forget the capital P] and the building of Tophets, lit with the flames of Gehenna) took on the nature of the gay hook up culture.

Don't spend all your energy on sex and all your money on women; they have destroyed kings. (Proverbs 31:3 GNB)
11-10-2019 05:16 AM
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