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Near Death Experiences
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infowarrior1 Offline
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Post: #1
Near Death Experiences
To start this thread off:




Not all near death experiences fit the Christian worldview. Many of them involve a tunnel of light leading to paradise. And this one instance of an Atheist man being brought before a being of red light and 2 entities arguing.


But others involves Hindus meeting a Hindu Deities. There are also other differences based on culture compared to Western Near Death Experiences.

For the Japanese there is often the experience featuring rivers or ponds.

Quote: One 50-year-old asthmatic man said he had seen himself wade into a reservoir
and do a handstand in the shallows. ‘Then I walked out of the water and
took some deep breaths. In the dream, I was repeating this over and over.’

Another 65-year-old man saw himself about to wade across a river when
he heard someone call his name and say ‘come this way’. The man said he
turned around and went back the way he had come. He later revived from a
coma in which his heart had stopped beating.


Quote:Another patient, a 73-year-old woman with cardiac arrest, saw a cloud
filled with dead people. ‘It was a dark, gloomy day . . . I was chanting
sutras. I believed they could be saved if they chanted sutras, so that is
what I was telling them to do.’

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg1...z653HVzatR



What's your thoughts on this phenomenon?
11-12-2019 04:05 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Near Death Experiences
Mystics report on very similar experiences. The planes beyond the physical are shaped and segregated as well - so Christians will meet a different area than Hindus or Muslims. The true higher planes are supposedly beyond any bodies and pure energy.

I don't think that believers in Christianity or another positive-minded religion care too much how exactly the afterlife looks like. So long as it's there and it's based on justice, then it's fine.

Hundreds of millions of people probably have out-of-body experiences including Christian saints and even mentions in the New Testament (some talked about multiple heavens). Those out-of-body experiences happen in the physical or in the higher planes. Some report on visiting their passed on loved ones in the places they stay now.

There are a myriad of near-death-experiencs - many with credible evidence that the almost deceased patient describes conversations they could not possibly have heard or known about.
11-12-2019 08:19 AM
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911 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Near Death Experiences
Two years ago my Warning Level reached 80%.

It was a harrowing experience, I started having strange convulsions, and tunnel visions of being around posters like Mage in the "Swoop the World" gamma purgatory.

λ ό γ ο ς
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2019 12:46 PM by 911.)
11-12-2019 12:38 PM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Near Death Experiences
(11-12-2019 12:38 PM)911 Wrote:  Two years ago my Warning Level reached 80%.

It was a harrowing experience, I started having strange convulsions, and tunnel visions of being around posters like Mage in the "Swoop the World" gamma purgatory.

Bow your head, put your hands on a pineapple, and give thanks to Kona.

You'll be all right.

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

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11-12-2019 01:21 PM
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Easy_C Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Near Death Experiences
(11-12-2019 08:19 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  Mystics report on very similar experiences. The planes beyond the physical are shaped and segregated as well - so Christians will meet a different area than Hindus or Muslims. The true higher planes are supposedly beyond any bodies and pure energy.

I don't think that believers in Christianity or another positive-minded religion care too much how exactly the afterlife looks like. So long as it's there and it's based on justice, then it's fine.

Hundreds of millions of people probably have out-of-body experiences including Christian saints and even mentions in the New Testament (some talked about multiple heavens). Those out-of-body experiences happen in the physical or in the higher planes. Some report on visiting their passed on loved ones in the places they stay now.

There are a myriad of near-death-experiencs - many with credible evidence that the almost deceased patient describes conversations they could not possibly have heard or known about.

That said a surprising number of them are mono-theistic in the end and ultimately recognize the existence of a singular creative will. For some of them the "Gods" are merely lesser entities not directly comparable to the Christian concept of God but merely having some level of power over creation.

What I find interesting is that there is an almost universal recognition of some kind of "beyond the gates" area where there's a strong unity.


Regarding visions I also think it is seriously worth considering that the Fatima miracle was fairly widely publicized and a number of previously anti-Christian journalists present at the event all said they saw something astounding. Their vision of hell is something that should be taken seriously and if nothing else is a warning of what's out there.
11-12-2019 03:45 PM
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RIslander Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Near Death Experiences
The tunnel of light is caused by brain hypoxia. Whatever happens after that I couldn't tell you.
11-12-2019 05:22 PM
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Batman_ Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Near Death Experiences
There is some speculation that NDEs are caused by an endogenous dump of DMT in the brain. The reported experiences from both DMT trips and NDEs have many similarities. I am not convinced that NDEs are anything more than biochemical hyperactivity. That said I'm sure that you can have a meaningful experience from one. I find it annoying though how NDE reports always have this arrogant quality to them by assuming that their experience was enlightening and coherent enough to actually pull something out of it.

"I drink only the finest breast milks."
"That's 100% Cambodian."
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2019 05:39 PM by Batman_.)
11-12-2019 05:34 PM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Near Death Experiences
The only real way to investigate this phenomenon is to take some time to listen to some NDEs.

Batman and RIslander have given the knee jerk dismissals that naturalists always give.

There is something going on with NDEs that is inexplicable by science.

Whether or not these are positive spiritual experiences will probably always be up for debate.

If anyone is interested, I can post a few ones that I have found compelling.

Otherwise, carry on saying NDEs are no different than DMT trips, dopamine dumps, hallucinations, and whatever else.

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

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11-13-2019 01:04 PM
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Latan Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Near Death Experiences
DMT and NDE have a lot of similarities, when you begin to read many reports, to get a general feel of them.
If anyone is interested about this subject, I'd recommend the book "DMT the spirit molecule" by Dr Rick Strassman.

My own interpretation is that during a NDE (or DMT), people gain knowledge about their lifes, about the universe, about "god", about everything.

The form of these messages depends on one's own belief system :
If you believe in angels, you'll see angels while receiving this knowledge.
If you believe in mechanical elves, you'll see mechanical elves while receiving this knowledge.
In my case, I believe in pure energy, so I see big lights of pure energy, teaching me their knowledge.

In the end, I think that the form of the character appearing in front of you, has zero importance.
It's just a way for you, to more easily accept its wisdom.
If it appeared as something deeply terrifying and repulsive, you wouldn't listen.

(Note : I could expend on people meeting truly terrifying entities, but it's not the subject.)
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2019 02:45 PM by Latan.)
11-13-2019 02:42 PM
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debeguiled Offline
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RE: Near Death Experiences
(11-13-2019 02:42 PM)Latan Wrote:  DMT and NDE have a lot of similarities, when you begin to read many reports, to get a general feel of them.
If anyone is interested about this subject, I'd recommend the book "DMT the spirit molecule" by Dr Rick Strassman.

My own interpretation is that during a NDE (or DMT), people gain knowledge about their lifes, about the universe, about "god", about everything.

The form of these messages depends on one's own belief system :
If you believe in angels, you'll see angels while receiving this knowledge.
If you believe in mechanical elves, you'll see mechanical elves while receiving this knowledge.
In my case, I believe in pure energy, so I see big lights of pure energy, teaching me their knowledge.

In the end, I think that the form of the character appearing in front of you, has zero importance.
It's just a way for you, to more easily accept its wisdom.
If it appeared as something deeply terrifying and repulsive, you wouldn't listen.

(Note : I could expend on people meeting truly terrifying entities, but it's not the subject.)

My overall impression is that NDEs lead people to find new meaning in life, believe there is a God that loves all of us, and lose their fear of death. This is pretty consistent.

I read Strassman's book and have listened to some interviews. It has an entirely different vibe, an indifferent, menacing, and often borderline hostile reaction from the entities, and the whole 'machine elf' thing you hear about is absent from NDEs.

Whereas even the negative NDEs seem to be life affirming, there is not such consistency to DMT experiences, and there is often a deep anxiety and uneasiness that experiencers try to rationalize away.

I have heard numerous accounts where people on DMT get the impression that they are arriving in a dimension they don't belong, or that they are interrupting something, and even that the beings they encounter seem predatory, and interested in them in a way akin to someone being interested in you in a dark alley.

I find the difference in overall experience between the two to be fairly striking, with the over all experience of NDE to be the realization that there is a God and that he loves you, while the DMT people seem much more to have experienced an indifferent universe.

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

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11-13-2019 03:25 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Near Death Experiences
< Mystics clearly point out that drug-induced experiences are not reliable. Even if you leave your body, you probably end up on some hellish plane and you are cut off from your inner guidance which everyone has. Thus mystics discourage the use of drugs to leave the body. The Whirling darvishes are few and far and they used a drug only for rookie mystics to get the first experiences. Also the herbal recipe used back then is lost and it may have had little side-effects. Currently there is none of those available - Ayuahsca leaves you vomiting and pissing yourself. No mystic would use that kind of thing.

As for assigning those experiences with chemical reactions in the brain - we are not even remotely able to replicate what happens in the brain and how this or that visualisation or thought pattern gets replicated. Most current tests are incredibly crude and at best can connect to ocular nerves or can scan general pattern. When you have actual mind-reading devices that can put up your thoughts and memories on an LCD screen, then come back. Otherwise you don't know jack shit.

And many of those experiences encompass not lights, but out-of-body experiences of pilots seeing problems in the planes from an outside view, patients reporting on conversations in different rooms or people saying that they visited their home a few miles away while they were out cold. It becomes difficult to explain all of this away unless you want to go into more paranormal things like saying that you tapped into telepathy or a cosmic awareness. And that would explain what exactly, that Soul does not exist, but post-mortal-telepathy does?
11-13-2019 03:55 PM
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Latan Offline
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RE: Near Death Experiences
(11-13-2019 03:25 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  My overall impression is that NDEs lead people to find new meaning in life, believe there is a God that loves all of us, and lose their fear of death. This is pretty consistent.

I read Strassman's book and have listened to some interviews. It has an entirely different vibe, an indifferent, menacing, and often borderline hostile reaction from the entities, and the whole 'machine elf' thing you hear about is absent from NDEs.

Whereas even the negative NDEs seem to be life affirming, there is not such consistency to DMT experiences, and there is often a deep anxiety and uneasiness that experiencers try to rationalize away.

I have heard numerous accounts where people on DMT get the impression that they are arriving in a dimension they don't belong, or that they are interrupting something, and even that the beings they encounter seem predatory, and interested in them in a way akin to someone being interested in you in a dark alley.

I find the difference in overall experience between the two to be fairly striking, with the over all experience of NDE to be the realization that there is a God and that he loves you, while the DMT people seem much more to have experienced an indifferent universe.

I agree with you, on the fact that NDE seem almost always very positive, while DMT experiences can go from discovering the true meaning of life, to being raped by space aligators while totally paralysed.

When you're about to die, the process is natural, and letting go also is.
So you don't cling to your ego and begin to disolve into "god" : you can then gain powerful insights.

DMT's process isn't natural, as the person just ingested / smoked / snorted a foreign substance.
If this person doesn't let go, he'll potentially experience hell, as his intent to stay inside his body, keep his name and identity, directly conflicts with the disolving nature of this experience.
If he lets go, the experience will be very similar to a NDE.
That's the main reason why these experiences vary so much, from user to user.

Once trully accepted, the DMT experience feels as natural as dying, and provides pure wisdom and knowledge.
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2019 05:09 PM by Latan.)
11-13-2019 04:35 PM
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RE: Near Death Experiences
(11-13-2019 01:04 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  The only real way to investigate this phenomenon is to take some time to listen to some NDEs.

Batman and RIslander have given the knee jerk dismissals that naturalists always give.

There is something going on with NDEs that is inexplicable by science.

Whether or not these are positive spiritual experiences will probably always be up for debate.

If anyone is interested, I can post a few ones that I have found compelling.

Otherwise, carry on saying NDEs are no different than DMT trips, dopamine dumps, hallucinations, and whatever else.

You misunderstood my point...I don't think the DMT trips or hallucinations are meaningless. In fact I think they can be more real and rich than ordinary reality. My point was just that NDEs aren't necessarily "special" or otherwise supernatural in some sense.

"I drink only the finest breast milks."
"That's 100% Cambodian."
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2019 07:05 PM by Batman_.)
11-13-2019 07:04 PM
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RE: Near Death Experiences
I don't know if this counts, but when I was in high school I had this experience that still haunts me from time to time:

I was in Geography class, last of the day, and my teacher had just came back from leave because his wife had died in a traffic accident. The alarm bell rang and we all wanted to leave, but the teacher wasn't finished and got really upset, and gave us a harsh lecture and used his wife's death to shame us about wanting to leave. So we stayed two more minutes for him to finish the lesson.

When it was finished I did what I usually did, and went to catch the bus. The school was right next to a large avenue with many lanes and two peon divisions in the middle, where you would have to wait for the light. There was a bridge, but we never used it, to save time. Whenever we saw the bus was arriving, and because we didn't want to lose it, we ran across even if the light was red for us. And so it was, several kids running, as usual, across the street, trying to go between the cars. I was running just behind a girl, who was almost reaching the bus stop, when a speeding sports car caught her and sent her flying across the road against a lamp post. She died from internal hemorrhages a day later. Me and the other kids behind and beside me just stood there, paralyzed.

This scene comes to me quite often, in dreams or just when I am in going about my day and it just comes up in my mind, very vividly and gives me the chills. I always think that if the teacher hadn't make us stay longer in class, I or one of my colleagues would have been the ones dead that day.

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11-14-2019 06:13 AM
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RE: Near Death Experiences
@ilostablet
"Time and chance happens to us all"

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11-14-2019 07:19 AM
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RE: Near Death Experiences
@Batman_

I heard stories about DMT that even when taken as a group on some part of the Joe Rogan Podcast on this. The entire group was able to perceive identical entities at the same place where others saw them at the same time.

Therefore DMT may actually be a way for the Soul to perceive and go into places and perceive entities we don't normally see.

The Brain/Mind Duality is in my opinion a falsehood:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBsI_ay8...sqIWKd2gs-

Go through the entire playlist as to why that is. And why to alter the brain is to alter the mind. Yet the mind isn't just the brain and is able to survive after death.
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2019 07:24 AM by infowarrior1.)
11-14-2019 07:23 AM
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RE: Near Death Experiences
(11-14-2019 07:23 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  @Batman_

I heard stories about DMT that even when taken as a group on some part of the Joe Rogan Podcast on this. The entire group was able to perceive identical entities at the same place where others saw them at the same time.

Therefore DMT may actually be a way for the Soul to perceive and go into places and perceive entities we don't normally see.

The Brain/Mind Duality is in my opinion a falsehood:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBsI_ay8...sqIWKd2gs-

Go through the entire playlist as to why that is. And why to alter the brain is to alter the mind. Yet the mind isn't just the brain and is able to survive after death.

Of course dualism is wrong, it's a laughable concept that most westerners fail to really think through. And I'm open to the idea that DMT (or NDEs, or whatever) tweak chemical information processing in the brain in such a way that you end up seeing some sort of entities that are normally hidden underneath the fabric of reality. I don't even believe in the soul or an afterlife but after my experiences with it and from the collective experiences of others, I don't think it's completely outside the realm of possibility.

The question is, what is it that goes on? The mind or "self" cannot exist without a brain and we have every reason to believe that the mind is simply a reflection of the brain. Give someone brain damage and their personality and memories change with it.

"I drink only the finest breast milks."
"That's 100% Cambodian."
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2019 08:58 AM by Batman_.)
11-14-2019 08:55 AM
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RE: Near Death Experiences
(11-14-2019 08:55 AM)Batman_ Wrote:  
(11-14-2019 07:23 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  @Batman_

I heard stories about DMT that even when taken as a group on some part of the Joe Rogan Podcast on this. The entire group was able to perceive identical entities at the same place where others saw them at the same time.

Therefore DMT may actually be a way for the Soul to perceive and go into places and perceive entities we don't normally see.

The Brain/Mind Duality is in my opinion a falsehood:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBsI_ay8...sqIWKd2gs-

Go through the entire playlist as to why that is. And why to alter the brain is to alter the mind. Yet the mind isn't just the brain and is able to survive after death.

Of course dualism is wrong, it's a laughable concept that most westerners fail to really think through. And I'm open to the idea that DMT (or NDEs, or whatever) tweak chemical information processing in the brain in such a way that you end up seeing some sort of entities that are normally hidden underneath the fabric of reality. I don't even believe in the soul or an afterlife but after my experiences with it and from the collective experiences of others, I don't think it's completely outside the realm of possibility.

The question is, what is it that goes on? The mind or "self" cannot exist without a brain and we have every reason to believe that the mind is simply a reflection of the brain. Give someone brain damage and their personality and memories change with it.

The mind manifests physically as a brain. To damage the brain is to damage the mind. Yet this quantum entanglement that is the mind is able to survive death.

Its all explained in the playlist. Have a watch and come back.
11-14-2019 09:38 AM
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Post: #19
RE: Near Death Experiences
My girlfriend had one of those near death experiences on Sunday.

Yeah, she started vacuuming while I was watching the game.

Take care of those titties for me.
11-14-2019 11:41 AM
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RE: Near Death Experiences
(11-14-2019 08:55 AM)Batman_ Wrote:  
(11-14-2019 07:23 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  @Batman_

I heard stories about DMT that even when taken as a group on some part of the Joe Rogan Podcast on this. The entire group was able to perceive identical entities at the same place where others saw them at the same time.

Therefore DMT may actually be a way for the Soul to perceive and go into places and perceive entities we don't normally see.

The Brain/Mind Duality is in my opinion a falsehood:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBsI_ay8...sqIWKd2gs-

Go through the entire playlist as to why that is. And why to alter the brain is to alter the mind. Yet the mind isn't just the brain and is able to survive after death.

Of course dualism is wrong, it's a laughable concept that most westerners fail to really think through.

Care to elaborate? Where I stand dualism is pretty apparent in this reality. Yin & yang. Maybe not so much after Death.
11-14-2019 12:09 PM
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RE: Near Death Experiences
(11-14-2019 12:09 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  
(11-14-2019 08:55 AM)Batman_ Wrote:  
(11-14-2019 07:23 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  @Batman_

I heard stories about DMT that even when taken as a group on some part of the Joe Rogan Podcast on this. The entire group was able to perceive identical entities at the same place where others saw them at the same time.

Therefore DMT may actually be a way for the Soul to perceive and go into places and perceive entities we don't normally see.

The Brain/Mind Duality is in my opinion a falsehood:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBsI_ay8...sqIWKd2gs-

Go through the entire playlist as to why that is. And why to alter the brain is to alter the mind. Yet the mind isn't just the brain and is able to survive after death.

Of course dualism is wrong, it's a laughable concept that most westerners fail to really think through.

Care to elaborate? Where I stand dualism is pretty apparent in this reality. Yin & yang. Maybe not so much after Death.

Where is the mind? Where is the self? The self doesn't exist, although there is a "sense of self". The mind is the full spectrum of conscious and unconscious activity/awareness that arises in the brain. How can the mind be a seperate process from the brain/body if consciousness ends with death?

"I drink only the finest breast milks."
"That's 100% Cambodian."
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2019 12:38 PM by Batman_.)
11-14-2019 12:36 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Near Death Experiences
(11-14-2019 12:36 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  
(11-14-2019 12:09 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  
(11-14-2019 08:55 AM)Batman_ Wrote:  Of course dualism is wrong, it's a laughable concept that most westerners fail to really think through.

Care to elaborate? Where I stand dualism is pretty apparent in this reality. Yin & yang. Maybe not so much after Death.

Where is the mind? Where is the self? The self doesn't exist, although there is a "sense of self". The mind is the full spectrum of conscious and unconscious activity/awareness that arises in the brain. How can the mind be a seperate process from the brain/body if consciousness ends with death?

I'm not sure how that answers about us living in a dualistic world. There's so many dualistic patterns such as the Sun/Moon, pleasure/pain, physical/mental, good/evil, mind/body, up/down, left/right to only name a few.

Who says the consciousness ends after Death?

Just because you, the character and physical, known as John Doe dies, doesn't mean, the soul and mental, version of you ends as well. Consciousness carries on.
11-14-2019 01:12 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Near Death Experiences
Even if you take a fully scientific approach - there is simply no proof on your side that those experiences are untrue. Quite to the contrary - with some you have trouble explaining it away in any logical way.
11-14-2019 01:20 PM
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Batman_ Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Near Death Experiences
(11-14-2019 01:12 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  
(11-14-2019 12:36 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  
(11-14-2019 12:09 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  
(11-14-2019 08:55 AM)Batman_ Wrote:  Of course dualism is wrong, it's a laughable concept that most westerners fail to really think through.

Care to elaborate? Where I stand dualism is pretty apparent in this reality. Yin & yang. Maybe not so much after Death.

Where is the mind? Where is the self? The self doesn't exist, although there is a "sense of self". The mind is the full spectrum of conscious and unconscious activity/awareness that arises in the brain. How can the mind be a seperate process from the brain/body if consciousness ends with death?

I'm not sure how that answers about us living in a dualistic world. There's so many dualistic patterns such as the Sun/Moon, pleasure/pain, physical/mental, good/evil, mind/body, up/down, left/right to only name a few.

Who says the consciousness ends after Death?

Just because you, the character and physical, known as John Doe dies, doesn't mean, the soul and mental, version of you ends as well. Consciousness carries on.

Ok, I guess I'll need to choose my words more carefully because the mind and consciousness are not interchangeable terms.

You can make a case that consciousness permeates the entire Universe, and that is is merely "crystalized" or "focused" in living creatures. In this view, consciousness is not simply a light switch that's either on or off, but is something that exists on an infinite spectrum, from a rock to a higher-ordered being with self-awareness.

This comes down to ontological definitions which is where I usually peace out. But it's not impossible to imagine consciousness contuining after death - after all, we were not put into this Universe, but came out of it; we were not put into this body, we are our bodies and the environment. This means that consciousness may simply be an inevitable consequence of entropy -conscious beings don't emerge from a dead rock in a vacuum, but on a planet with geology, atmosphere, and complexity of environment. In this view, you could say that the Earth has more "consciousness" than a dead rock like the moon.

But what is the mind? How do you even define it? To me, the only way to describe the mind is to call it information processing. If you scanned someone's brain and uploaded it into a virtual reality, is it that really a "mind" or is it just an idiosyncratic pattern of processing information through the filter of particular memories and feelings? How can the mind exist beyond death if there are no longer any instruments to process sensory information?

"I drink only the finest breast milks."
"That's 100% Cambodian."
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2019 01:56 PM by Batman_.)
11-14-2019 01:46 PM
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Oberrheiner Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Near Death Experiences
(11-13-2019 03:25 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  My overall impression is that NDEs lead people to lose their fear of death.

That's for sure.
Death is sweet.
Do not fear it.
11-14-2019 03:34 PM
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