Post: #126

(11-24-2019 09:18 PM)bucky Wrote:  By the way, where in the developed world is there no common law marriage? I was under the impression that there is no such place, but I suppose I might be wrong.

There's no common law where I stay.

If a man wants to be a player, a monk, or a family man, I say go right ahead. I'm not here to judge.

Marriage on the other hand is a fools game.

Post: #127

(11-24-2019 09:30 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  

(11-24-2019 09:18 PM)bucky Wrote:  By the way, where in the developed world is there no common law marriage? I was under the impression that there is no such place, but I suppose I might be wrong.

There's no common law where I stay.

If a man wants to be a player, a monk, or a family man, I say go right ahead. I'm not here to judge.

Marriage on the other hand is a fools game.

I'm generally a live-and-let-live type of guy too, but I've known a few sociopaths who go around the world bringing children into it then abandoning them, and I'll judge those guys. The one I know best is a guy who's little daughter I've also met. My wife is friends with her mom. The little girl often asks when Daddy will come back. I have no idea what her mom tells her, because Daddy has no intention of ever coming back.

I worked with this guy in another country and thought he was pretty cool until he remarked that he has a kid in Latin America, the US, Europe and just needs to have one in Asia somewhere now.

You probably weren't thinking things through when you advised guys to have kids without getting married, but if you were advocating behavior like this, that's just evil.

Marriage is risky, but it's the only honorable option if you are planning on having children.

Post: #128

Hypothetical here: Let's assume there's a way to guarantee a marriage won't end in divorce.

Would you still consider it foolhardy to enter into one?

Post: #129

@Bucky

Marriage isn't risky, it's just dumb after being warned. Ignorance for the ones who didn't know beforehand.

Plus you keep going in circles and putting words in my mouth. I'm just going to end this debate unless you can actually bring me any benefits marriage brings that a family man can't get.

@Snag87

Yes. There needs to be repercussions for breaking that contract on both ends.

Post: #130

Silent one ; I ve noticed that you are anti marriage - what is the main reason ? Only the financial issue when the woman leaves ?

Post: #131

(11-25-2019 02:10 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  Silent one ; I ve noticed that you are anti marriage - what is the main reason ? Only the financial issue when the woman leaves ?

It's rigged. For a detail answer, reread all my earlier posts. State marriage is a financial business. That's all it is.

Post: #132

(11-25-2019 04:34 AM)SilentOne Wrote:  

(11-25-2019 02:10 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  Silent one ; I ve noticed that you are anti marriage - what is the main reason ? Only the financial issue when the woman leaves ?

It's rigged. For a detail answer, reread all my earlier posts. State marriage is a financial business. That's all it is.

To answer your question from above, the benefit that marriage brings is allowing you to have children without abandoning them. If you live somewhere where you can marry in your church without getting the state getting involved, I don't see a problem, but that's not an option for most guys. Sure, marriage is risky, but if you're planning on bringing a child into the world without living with the child and his mother, that's just evil. The best thing to do in that case would be to remain childless.

I would advise guys to learn game and how to manage a woman as well as have faith in Christ, rather than give in to fear. What you're advising comes off as cowardly as well as not making much sense. Even if you managed to find a developed country with no common law marriage, had kids and lived with the mother, it didn't work out and you left, if you're any kind of decent person you'd still have to support the children, and you'd still be in a difficult situation financially and socially, regardless of the law.

Post: #133

OP. Let her take the dog. Get a no lawyer divorce and start meeting new women. Get out of the relationship, clean yourself up (mentally) and get back into the game. In a couple years you will never regret your decision as long as you continue to improve yourself. I have the experience and wisdom in this matter. Consider yourself lucky. Stay focused and continue on your journey. Better women will come into your life as you evolve. Do it with a smile on your face knowing the your future will be better than ever. Enjoy every moment of it.

Post: #134

(11-25-2019 10:28 AM)Jeptomf Wrote:  OP. Let her take the dog. Get a no lawyer divorce and start meeting new women. Get out of the relationship, clean yourself up (mentally) and get back into the game. In a couple years you will never regret your decision as long as you continue to improve yourself. I have the experience and wisdom in this matter. Consider yourself lucky. Stay focused and continue on your journey. Better women will come into your life as you evolve. Do it with a smile on your face knowing the your future will be better than ever. Enjoy every moment of it.

She can't handle the dog. Complains that it makes her angry because it's still a puppy.

Post: #135

Why are people who are against Marriage/Christian morals still allowed on this board? Did no one read the new rules? We dont need Men telling others "Dont get married, its a trap, you asked for it" etc. We've been hearing that for over a decade now, including in this forum (im a newer member, but i've been lurking for years, on top of"getting into the "Manosphere" scene in 2013)

We need to move past this blackpill thinking and think of ways to get good women and make a marriage last.

Post: #136

(11-24-2019 11:31 PM)Snag87 Wrote:  Hypothetical here: Let's assume there's a way to guarantee a marriage won't end in divorce.

Would you still consider it foolhardy to enter into one?

There are several elements to that. The marriage contract can be enforced legally or socially. Is it divorce you want to discourage, or adultery? Does the institution of marriage make sense? Or is monogamy itself the problem? You can end up with many permutations.

-In pre-agrarian societies you could have any number of "it takes a village" arrangements where kids are raised successfully but long-term monogamy is not required or even encouraged. I'm not sure that these setups work, however, if you want to build civilizations.
-You can enact legal barriers to divorce, but if the social barriers aren't there, then people just separate. In the Philippines, divorce is illegal. Without a strong child support requirement, you end up with a lot of de facto single mothers sitting around broke. But hey, at least they're still technically married.
-You can freely allow divorce, but if you have strong social barriers against it and the laws don't incentivize women to run off, divorce will be rare. You end up with China, where people stay married but cheat non-stop.
-You can have the modern-day West, where the only hope is for men to "game their wives." Good luck with that.
-You can enforce the marital contract by stoning people for adultery and such, as has occurred in some Islamic countries. I'm sure most of us here don't have a taste for anything that draconian.
-And so on ...

As in all areas of life, there are tradeoffs. There's no silver bullet that will guarantee you a stable marriage and an ideal child-rearing environment. Not even "game."

Post: #137

(11-25-2019 11:38 AM)Augustus_Principe Wrote:  Why are people who are against Marriage/Christian morals still allowed on this board? Did no one read the new rules? We dont need Men telling others "Dont get married, its a trap, you asked for it" etc. We've been hearing that for over a decade now, including in this forum (im a newer member, but i've been lurking for years, on top of"getting into the "Manosphere" scene in 2013)

We need to move past this blackpill thinking and think of ways to get good women and make a marriage last.

Monopolies aren't good. Competition breeds more ideas and better rewards for both parties.

Second, without repercussions marriage is silly.

Oh and i have something that would easily fix this lopsided contract. Stop getting married. If all men did this, the system would have to change and correct itself.

It's like guys who complains about a product such as madden nfl and yet buy it every year. Nothing will change. It will stay subpar every year, especially with no competition.

Post: #138

You make $120K and think you can't afford kids and that you need 3 years to save up??

I always hear people say things like this and it blows my mind how people think. Where does all your money go? After a year I see no problem why you shouldn't be able to save $50K or even more. You can literally save more in a year than most people can save in 10 years.

Post: #139

(11-25-2019 12:27 PM)CamelJockey Wrote:  You make $120K and think you can't afford kids and that you need 3 years to save up??

I always hear people say things like this and it blows my mind how people think. Where does all your money go? After a year I see no problem why you shouldn't be able to save $50K or even more. You can literally save more in a year than most people can save in 10 years.

Yeah, I think it's better to own a place than to rent when you have kids.
Well, now my money is split.

Really haven't thought it through much to be honest.

Post: #140

(11-25-2019 12:27 PM)CamelJockey Wrote:  You make $120K and think you can't afford kids and that you need 3 years to save up??

I always hear people say things like this and it blows my mind how people think. Where does all your money go? After a year I see no problem why you shouldn't be able to save $50K or even more. You can literally save more in a year than most people can save in 10 years.

$120K canadian is a lot less than in US dollars. It's still a decent income, but if you are paying city rent, taxes, and everything else, you can run through that money pretty quick. Yes, if you trade off a downtown apartment and going out all the time for a modest single family house in the suburbs, and stop going out all the time, you can save a lot of money and make room for children. However, the basic cost of living for a modest family living situation is very high under any circumstances, and buying a house instead of renting requires saving up a down payment.

Post: #141

I agree with all the comments about leaving her. Don't waste your SHORT life on someone like this. If she does not have feelings for you, they're not going to magically reappear. She is done.

Get the hell out of there and don't get married again. Marriage is the worst decision you can make.

Post: #142

(11-25-2019 10:28 AM)Jeptomf Wrote:  OP. Let her take the dog. Get a no lawyer divorce and start meeting new women.

Exactly. Do this, just walk away and get far away from her.

Post: #143

(11-16-2019 12:00 AM)SilentOne Wrote:  I agree with Kid Twist. These women are not exiting the game field. The main reason is because there are no repercussions. That's it. Nothing else matters.

Sure the men did allow these women to get too much power over time but here we are. In the past women were more respectful because they had to be. Not because of silly things like love or justice.

You guys are so stuck in this era you can't see clearly. Women didn't have the rights to things like equal jobs, child support, and section 8. None of that existed back then.

They had to stick by their men. This current government system allows them to be free and overall destroys the family system.

(11-16-2019 12:51 AM)SilentOne Wrote:  

(11-16-2019 12:36 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  If, as I suspect, you mean men should act like men and women will follow, that's closer to realistic. .

It doesn't matter how you act, alpha or not.

It wont hold, she can and will still act out.

Because... she can with daddy government support.

Plus if you get too alpha, you'll just end up in jail.

(11-24-2019 04:48 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  

(11-24-2019 03:46 PM)bucky Wrote:  

(11-24-2019 03:20 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  Now I'm a sociopath...

Can you clarify what you meant when you advised guys to have children without getting married in some way that doesn't boil down to one of these:

1) Knock women up and abandon them and your children.
2) Llive with your children and their mother without formally marrying her even though that's a common-law marriage with exactly the same legal and financial ramifications.

Because the first is sociopathic behavior, and the second doesn't make sense.

Marriage is risky nowadays. That's the cards we've been dealt as guys living in current year. Regardless, it's the only way if you want children without being a sociopath (I'm trying to think of a better word...maybe "shitty father"?). Game and faith in Christ are your best shot.

The problem here is that you've been programmed to think this way.

With number one, i agree there are some shitty father's out there. Although, let's not go think that every man who doesn't live with his child abandoned them. Sometime these men come home to an empty house with everything gone including the child. The mom just took them across the state or country without notifying the dad. It happens.

With two. Not all places have common law. For the places that do, find you a lawyer who can possibly legally write that you two live together but not married ever. If this isn't possible where you stay, then you can't live together. It sucks but you got to adjust to this silly rigged game.

And look at it this way, how many guys would get on a plane knowing fully well that it has more than 50% chance of crashing before reaching its destination. Any takers?

I bet none. Because this time they are not blinded by lust.

You can still become a family men without marriage. Just as you can still not raise your child while married.

I understand the guys in the past who were ignorant, but now you guys are warned by me with knowledge. You can't blame society or the women for divorce raping you anymore. And I bet the ones who told you to get married will say "you chose the wrong one" once that divorce occurs. Offering nothing else but that. I'm just here to make you more aware before making such a critical decision that doesn't benefit you at all.

I think you are confused here, your problem isn't with marriage but with the way custody laws are set up.

Getting married in America at least is no big deal. If there are no kids, the separation only costs a few grand at most and possessions are divided. Alimony isn't considered much nowadays, many states have eliminated or changed how it works so that alimony isn't given unless there is a huge disparity in incomes.

So the marriage laws themselves are no big deal.'

Once children get into the picture, however, the man is fighting the system tooth and nail to see his kids and afford his rent. Child support payments are hardcore in most places across the West and the government does not care at all if you are married or not.

So really, your advice should be, "Don't have children," because the marriage part by itself is nothing. If you aren't married but have kids with a woman in America, then you are responsible for that child even if she no longer wants to see you. She will keep the kid and make you pay a quarter or more of your income, including for any years the child attends college.

Hell, marriage is the fun and easy part by comparison of having children. Once you get a woman pregnant in the current environment, the man is taking a pure leap of faith. Do not get the wrong woman preggo, or your life is ruined.

In this respect, the Christian advice of dating a woman he can marry and be faithful with is good advice for finding a good mother to raise your children with.

The real issue is whether or not a man wants children, if he does then life becomes far more complicated. Being married without kids is still easy peasy.

Post: #144

Common law marriage is not that prevalent in the U.S.

Quoting from Wikipedia:

"In the United States, common-law marriage can be contracted in seven states and the District of Columbia. Once they meet the requirements of common-law marriage, couples in those true common-law marriages are considered legally married for all purposes and in all circumstances.[39]

"Common-law marriage can still be contracted in Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, Rhode Island, Texas, Utah, and the District of Columbia.[40][41] Common law marriage may also be valid under military law for purposes of a bigamy prosecution under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.[42]

"All U.S. jurisdictions recognize common-law marriages that were validly contracted in the originating jurisdiction, because they are valid marriages in the jurisdiction where they were contracted. see: Full Faith and Credit Clause. However, absent legal registration or similar notice of the marriage, the parties to a common law marriage or their eventual heirs may have difficulty proving their relationship to be marriage. Some states provide for registration of an informal or common-law marriage based on the declaration of each of the spouses on a state-issued form.[43]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law...ted_States

Post: #145

To the original poster.

I dated this beautiful, actually IMO smoking girl for 5 years. My first half of my twenties. I’m 26 now. This girl drug me through the most psychotic ringer you could imagine. I was working making 90~ and being the leader. While I was being true, she was shooting heroin and selling herself while she was “at her moms” or “friends”. I was love blind. I knew deep down something was wrong and did not want to face it. One week she stopped coming home, and my Hulu literally had shit on the keep watching section that I’ve never watched.. go to sign in on my mac book and boom, her FB was signed in an I click on messages and sure enough. Soliciting sex to everyone in town for months.... it’s a town of 15k too and no one told me..

I just know it’s hard when someone you love betrays you. It feels like it’s the end. And it hurts...
pls dude. Cut your losses make your money. And fuck bitches when they come around.

Don’t stress it..time will heal you..

Post: #146

@Samseau

No my issue is directly at state marriages. It is just a huge financial business since its inception. But I do agree with you on the child factor. They are an expensive, yet lovable liability.

I just want men to know what they are signing up for and what will happen if/when it ends. Whatever state or jurisdiction you are in, simply read the rules gentlemen.

@Midwestmind

That was a tough story to read. It sucks but most men must learn the hard way through a painful experience unfortunately. Next time use more logic, less love.

Post: #147

(11-25-2019 11:38 AM)Augustus_Principe Wrote:  Why are people who are against Marriage/Christian morals still allowed on this board? Did no one read the new rules? We dont need Men telling others "Dont get married, its a trap, you asked for it" etc. We've been hearing that for over a decade now, including in this forum (im a newer member, but i've been lurking for years, on top of"getting into the "Manosphere" scene in 2013)

We need to move past this blackpill thinking and think of ways to get good women and make a marriage last.

I was thinking about SO's absolute opposition to marriage today and realized that it comes from a non-Christian perspective. Of course a wise Christian man nowadays realizes that marriage is risky. The possibility of losing massive amounts of material wealth is very real, as are other things like your wife being unfaithful, your children losing respect for you, and so on. I'd rather avoid all of that but if it were to happen I'd look at it as God's will and certainly no worse than what other Christians have suffered for their faith. The important thing to me would be continue to live righteously as best as I can, and I would take comfort in my hope for a better world after my time in this one. Thinking about a "divorce rape" from the perspective of a non-believer who sees nothing of value outside of the material, I can see how the prospect would be vastly more terrifying, and how guys like SO rationalize their cowardice and sloth (in the sense of lack of effort to learn game) as some kind of elevated wisdom. Like you say, this forum should be about steering fellow Christians away from this kind of defeatist attitude.

Post: #148

I relate to your experience from my current marriage. I have been married twice.

In the first one, I got married at 25 and divorced at 30, without kids, only bank savings, living on a rental. The difference is that it was my decision, although it could as well have been hers. Her reaction to me when I said I wanted to divorce was indifference. We only ever had sex with condom, with very few exceptions. She did not want to have a baby with me, and she was right not to, because I encouraged her to pursue a career instead.

Now, on my 2nd marriage, we got a baby before we got married, and married when our baby was 4 months. I quit my job in Brazil and moved to her country (Canada). While I was still unemployed, without a work permit, we had a 2nd baby. Things were not great, but I doubled down on the commitment. That did not fix anything however.

She resented me because she had to forfeit her maternity leave to work, as I could not and we could certainly use the money. I was still bringing in money transfers from my severance, 2k/month, to pay for expenses at this point, but she had a mortgage that was 3k/month then. That did not matter, when in every argument we had at night, she would at an inevitable point tell me it was her house and tell me to leave. Within a few months of that God provided, and within 2 weeks of getting a work visa, I found a job in Victoria BC. Our family was in Vancouver BC. That is a 5 hour commute away, including 2 buses, 2 trains and a 1h45m ferry to the island. I moved to the island and saw them on weekends.

On my 3rd month living by myself I cheated on her on a one night stand when I went to a bar. I felt horrible, and decided to come clean. I told her about it, she was broken. In my mind our relationship was done anyway, she had forced my hand and feet out the door.

She returned me the wedding ring, but still we kept together on weekends. I took my ring off for a few weeks and then decided I was going to wear mine no matter what. After cheating, repenting and coming clea, i acquired a courage I never had before and I started being brutally honest with her since that episode. She sees that I am sincere, as I have been in times where few would, although she does not always appreciate when I mock sodomy and the sort. The conditioning is still strong.

During that time, she threatened to divorce for 14 months straight, almost every argument we had, at least once a month, sometimes more often.

She would say how she wanted to meet other men, that I was too antagonizing to her (when in fact I was antagonizing the corrupt degenerate ideas she repeats from TV and social media). I simply said: ok. I have my job. I will pay you child support. Caveat is: you do the research, give me the papers please. I am not doing it myself, you are the one that wants it. I even bought a DIY divorce book to help do it without having to pay for lawyers.

She never did anything about it. I was not bluffing. I called her on hers.

I kept on praying for the well being of my girls and that things would get better. Last month I got a job back on the mainland and moved back in. I went back on my knees and asked her again to be my wife, and she accepted her ring back.

First weekend in we had a major meltdown argument, over donating bins of clothes and whether or not "'we' here in Canada" (as she put it) collect it or not. I picked a battle with the "we" she used. I ended up researching apartments with full intent to move out, after one more argument where she went into divorce mode. Since then, the anger has subsided and I let that go. She has not brought it back again. We have not talked about it yet, but I show with my plans that I have no intention of going nowhere.

I still stand by my word. If she wants me out, I will go anytime, there is no point resisting it. In my case at least, she says it in anger and frustration when I stand my ground in an argument.

Things are going through a peaceful stretch I have not experienced yet with her, and I am grateful for it. I noticed how she does not watch TV anymore in my presence, and I am so glad about that, sleeps longer instead of wasting time on Facebook late at night. I notice how she refrains from arguing, takes back sentences that I would dispute for sure. She has been keeping the peace. It takes a lot of consistency from both sides, and it takes repentance and honesty. I noticed how exchanging eye contact now is all we need to get on the same page.

Going back to your situation, if you are reading this far.

It really seems clear cut to me. You have a job offer to move abroad. Do you want to take this job and move, and be away from family and friends? I know what that is, having left everything behind. When she threatened to kick me out without income, I entertained the thought of becoming homeless in a foreign country I know no one.

If you want that job, and she is sincere about her feelings, then there is no point denying it to her. She is making you both a favor.

You still have your freedom, the ability to provide for yourself and to start your life over in the US, where you will hopefully find someone that loves you for who you are, lock down and have a wonderful family with that you will be the one who will provide and protect, which is what women crave for.

I am aware of my shortcomings, and when I failed to provide, my wife gave me hell to pay. Reading the Bible and finding truth in it has kept me on the right path. It is not clear what the cause may have been for your relationship. Perhaps she senses your heart is somewhere else as you seek for jobs abroad, and she does not want that with someone who is not fully committed. It can be much scarier for a woman to leave her social circles and family behind, especially to tag along with a man who may or may not be the one she sees as the one who will bear her kids in the future.

Hope it can be helpful to you somehow, and wish you all the best fortune.

Good bless your path.

Post: #149

Sorry to hear about your situation OP. Good advice has already been given. It will suck now but you'll be fine in 1-2 years. It took my 18 months myself when I went through it. Things are good for me now (finally) although I'm much older (40+). Still can pull 26 year olds though. When you're older and bit more naturally alpha, this will be less of a problem for you. Be the 28-32 year old guy who marries the 23-25 year old and start a family sooner.

I would also ask yourself, are you an '7' guy who imported a (global) '8' woman? This type of value mismatch is hard to sustain long term especially in the West. The IRL instances where I've seen relationship breakdown were like these. In one case, they are still together with 2 kids, however she cheats regularly (even whilst she was heavily pregnant!). You could have been this guy - not good...

The gem I got from this thread: Screen as much as you can before marriage, then start have children during the first 2 years of marriage. You'll still be in the happy stage, and in a way you'll be locking yourself in (assuming you are a man who honours his responsibilities). From a Machiavellian POV you're also halving your wife's SMV and she will also be kept very busy (and hopefully happy), so her options/temptations to leave are dramatically reduced.

Also, in regards to expectations around marriage (both legal and religious), I landed on a healthy middle ground approach. While I hope my future marriage will be fulfilling and last forever, at a bare minimum I will absolutely do everything I can to ensure it lasts at least until my youngest kid leaves the house (say 18-21). It's vital to the health of the children. I think this is a good balance.

Post: #150

(11-22-2019 12:37 PM)SnowHugger Wrote:  Following up on the situation.

I've talked to a Lawyer. He said he's never seen a joint application for divorce with adultery. Usually, it's just one of the parties.

Having said that, the judge requires proof that's more than just suspicions that she cheated. I don't think I'll be able to get that.

The current way we are thinking of doing this is to get legally separated and to file for divorce in a year.

I'm a little worried about the separation agreement being challenged in the future by either of us and it's apparently best to get lawyers involved to draft it and review it. (Of course it is, fucking hell.) Drafting it costs between 1.5k and 2.5k, who knows how much it'll cost to review. Then they provide suggestions to both parties, so it could be in review for months.

Not sure what to do in this case.

Your lawyer is tepid or wrong, family lawyers are generally inept paper pushers. Think about it, what Lawyer with multiple practice options would pick family law on purpose? Double check/read up on everything the lawyer advises you to do. By "read up" I mean read the actual law, not just websites. Ask pointed questions to the lawyer like "Canada Code section X says this, why can't we just do that?" Go to a court and ask the Clerk what papers you need to file for divorce, decide how complex or intimidating it is.

Also, try consulting with a para-legal instead of a lawyer. They are generally better at helping to complete paperwork if you know what you want done specifically.

In Ontario I did a joint divorce with a claim of adultery about 18 years ago. I did not have to submit any proof to a Judge either. I just admitted to it in the filing.

That was even in a case involving children and some assets. A lawyer drafted up the paperwork and filed it for us, at about $800 so $1500 in today's Canada makes sense.